Hey Scott,
I got to thinking earlier today that we haven't heard the infamous "Ass---hole" chant has been absent from WWE for awhile. Have you noticed this? Any ideas on why it's gone? I haven't watched in awhile, but I'm thinking that there isn't really any good and true asshole heels right now. Or it could be just the WWE trying to keep those chants from breaking out, but that seems like it'd be a very hard thing to control?
I'm with the first theory -- there's just no one worthy of the chant. Almost every heel gets neutered or made to look like a coward, so you can't get any good Vince McMahon-style heat going and make people truly hate you. Like I'm still trying to figure out CM Punk's motivation for being a heel in the first place. Yeah, he wanted respect, but now he's just the guy (figuratively) yelling at little old ladies in the front row and going after the hometown hero for cheap heat. No wonder people don't want to boo the guy.
I think it's been so long no one would even think to do it anymore. WWE would just cut out the audio while they were chanting it anyway (and they'd leave "ass" and cut out "hole", in that weird TV tradition I don't understand). All those old ECW chants have really fallen off in the last few years. Otherwise Sin Cara would hear nothing but "You fucked up!" chants.
ReplyDeleteI could have sworn Punk got an asshole chant during that opening segment with Bret Hart last week. But yeah, beyond that, I can't think of any recently.
ReplyDeleteYep, he did.
ReplyDeletePunk definitely got "Asshole" chants after his segment with Bret, and surprisingly didn't bleep it out.
ReplyDeleteI assume it's because the product doesn't capture people's interest the way it used to, but fans don't seem to react to anything the way they did. There's few guys who get great reactions these days, and even those reactions pale to the reactions stars got in the past. Midcarders 10 years ago got bigger pops than most main eventers today.
ReplyDeleteLots of truth to what you're saying.
ReplyDeleteFunny enough, the last insane reaction (aside from Bret returning to Montreal which is entirely different), was Brock on Raw after WM. That crowd literally unhinged.
Come on Punk, you can't just yell at little old ladies in the front row, you gotta rip up their autograph book too!
ReplyDeleteCanadian crowds seem more prone to profanity. I went to Breaking Point in Montreal in 2009 and a MASSIVE "shut the fuck up" chant broke out during Dolph Ziggler's segment. That was a pay-per-view, though, so a bit of a different case.
ReplyDeletePunk is a heel because he is REBELLING against the injustice of the format sheet.
ReplyDeleteI think the last true heat machines were Jericho '08 and Edge '06. Maybe Batista during his last run.
ReplyDeleteIf WWE crowds had their own HOF, the Orlando post-Mania crowd deserves induction. They made Daniel Bryan and were the most passionate anyone's seen in years for Brock. I wish I was there.
ReplyDeleteIt's still real to us, dammit!
ReplyDeleteSurprised Michael Cole never got it last year.
ReplyDeleteWait... I love that idea. There are certain crowds that enhanced the experience of an event. Maybe they should get some credit.
ReplyDeletePunk totally got an asshole chant last week.
ReplyDeleteThat was in Miami and yeah, best crowd on years.
ReplyDeleteThe only asshole heel they have is ADR and he's not even an asshole.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree that a big part is that most of these "characters" they present don't develop enough emotion to warrant such a chant, but I also think it might have something to do with the company's focus on children as its primary audience. I'm certainly not going to say that adults or even teens don't attend the shows, but let's face it, when a company structures its programming to cater to the little ones, the little ones show up and the older ones take a hike.
ReplyDeleteNo maybe on Batista, he was truly drawing some incredible heat.
ReplyDeleteI thought they were in Orlando for the Raw the night after.
ReplyDeleteNah, American Airlines Arena. I think they went to Orlando for Smackdown.
ReplyDeleteBig Johnny was getting the chants pretty regularly earlier this year.
ReplyDeleteHmm. I guess you would know.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rspwfaq.net/2012/04/smark-raw-supershow-rant040212.html
ReplyDeleteI was being serious, you were there weren't ya?
ReplyDeleteI kick myself for not going after going to WM. I drive by the arena
ReplyDeleteGoing home from work and. Oh was I jealous when I saw the show that night.
Ironic. This is what I am chanting right now, at ROH's phantom stream. Fuck you ROH. Ok, rant over.
ReplyDeleteGo Spectral Envoy~!
Another thing - people loved Austin and The Rock, so anyone who opposed them was hated just for opposing them. When half the crowd hates John Cena, you're not going to get a lot of people hating his opponent with enough passion to start calling them an asshole. They either prefer the "bad guy" over Cena, or it's one of the heels that's no serious threat so not worth getting worked out over....it was said below but Edge at times, and certainly Jericho in 2008 were the best examples of strong heels who could rile up a crowd.
ReplyDeleteGood point. I can't see little kids chanting asshole, or being allowed to, and a good number of the adults there are just there to be with their kids, they're not really invested in the show themselves.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely. It's too bad they only turned him heel for his exit angle - had they let him be that character and actually built the show around him as the asshole champion he would've gotten massive heat. Possibly the best heel since 2000 Triple H.
ReplyDeleteOh god, are they having problems AGAIN?
ReplyDeleteI remember a point (2000ish maybe?) where they had Benoit beat the shit out of The Rock on RAW or something. Benoit was a mid-card guy by that point.
ReplyDeleteThe very next show, Benoit was booed out of the building as soon as his music hit. The guy was more over from one beatdown. As you said, The Rock was so over that anyone who attacked him would get instant heat.
The WWE doesn't really have anyone like that today.
I remember SummerSlam '99 when Jeff Jarrett sent Debra to the back prior to the start of his match and subsequently received a booming ASSHOLE chant. I know! Jeff Jarrett! No wonder he thought he was worthy of a main-event feud with Austin.
ReplyDeleteI think I remember that. Was that when Benoit was hanging around with Shane McMahon?
ReplyDeleteAGAIN?? Now I don't feel so bad for waiting until tomorrow to watch it. I was so upset at missing almost all of Border Wars, I decided to wait a day before watching any ROH PPV.
ReplyDeleteAmen!
ReplyDeleteThe heel rub is lost with Cena, has been for years, yet he's the focus of the main event. There's a reason heels appear so weak these days, it's not 100% 50/50 booking or shiity creative. That rub is essential whether it's from heel to face or vice versa.
Well, Angry Miz Girl won a Slammy, maybe they can do a Best Crowd every year and the award stays in the arena?
ReplyDeleteIt's another drawback to keeping Cena as the top face. It's hard to create a great heel when they A) Can't look at all threatening because Cena has to look like the better man in all situations, and B) Enough people hate or are indifferent to Cena that they're not going to rally against a heel just because he's opposing Cena. You can't create a great money drawing heel when half the crowd either wants him to beat the face or doesn't care either way if he does.
ReplyDeleteIt figures, two straight shows without any issues and they just have to blow it on the third try. They're owned by a TV giant for fuck's sake, there's no valid excuse for this.
ReplyDeleteI mean, why exactly are much smaller indies like CZW and EVOLVE able to have live IPPVs go off without a hitch yet the biggest indie company can only get like 3 shows out of 18 to go off without any technical issues even though said big fish is owned by the same company who owns the most TV stations in the U.S. and on a daily basis those stations are able to have live newscasts, live online podcasts, etc. without any issues?
This simply makes no sense whatsoever and it's why ROH will not only never be in WWE's league but they'll never be in TNA's league either. At least with those two companies, you can actually see the entire show that you paid your hard-earned money for!
Yeah, but I can't remember if Shane was managing him at that point. By the time they had a PPV match, he was though.
ReplyDeleteI'm not really surprised, the live crowds were spared from listening to his commentary and thus weren't tortured like TV viewers were/are.
ReplyDeleteGood point about weird WWE censorship but nothing tops Turner Standards And Practices in the illogical censorship department.
ReplyDeleteThanks to YouTube, I just rewatched a horrible Nitro from early 2000 and "Screw" and "Fruit Booty", words that don't exactly qualify as profanity were inexplicably bleeped out.
The chant certainly hasn't disappeared from the world as a whole. I hear it here and there during sporting events, usually when umps/refs badly fuck up a call.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see the "You fucked up" chant used outside of wrestling. It'd be great for auto racing when someone wrecks for no good reason, or for the X-Games.
ReplyDeleteDid anyone get hit with and international object during that episode?
ReplyDeleteWell, there were a few of the fake-looking foam bats and crowbars that WCW loved to use for some reason but I believe by this point the announcers were just calling them "illegal objects" instead of "international objects", I guess "international" was somehow considered a racial slur by the batshit insane Turner censors.
ReplyDeleteand the EVOLVE shows are AWESOME.. even if the crowds suck..
ReplyDelete"No wonder people don't want to boo the guy."
ReplyDeleteAnd he's the protagonist in this story! He is the champ, he beats everyone, everyone insists that despite its proud tradition and Punk's undefeated streak the title is meaningless, Punk must constantly prove himself. So he does. Meanwhile, Cena's a dilettante who hasn't gone after the title in months. The way the story has been presented, Cena is Punk's obstacle (final boss) much more than Punk is Cena's (victim of the month). This doesn't automatically make Punk a face - the NBA got two years' mileage out of having everyone root against its main character's quest for validation. But absent some absolutely brilliant and unexpected angle that parallels "The Decision," Punk is the natural face, and the Cena feud will feel backwards.
Still, any Punk-Cena PPV main event gets my money, no questions asked.
It was "foreign" that was banned by CNN news, and by effect all the rest of the Turner empire. Hence the term "international object". Not sure exactly when the term was used, Scott would know. Sometime in the early 90s I think.
ReplyDeleteThe "covers up the hot girl who wants to show skin" thing is SUCH a brilliant way for a heel to get heat it's not even funny. Every guy in the arena immediately wants to kick your ass legit for taking the boobs away.
ReplyDeleteI believe that timeline would be right, but what I'm referring to is that by the end of the decade, the announcers were calling weapons "illegal objects" instead of "international objects". This change coincidentally started shortly after Eric Bischoff got that list from Turner Standards And Practices of things they could and could not say on TV and presumably, TBS thought that "International" was an offensive word.
ReplyDeleteThe announcers had all kinds of stupid restrictions like this, like not being able to say the words "First Blood" during "First Blood" matches and having to always call the guardrails outside the ring "safety rails" because that somehow makes guardrails seem less dangerous.
Ha ha, "international" is offensive... Gotta stop coming here when I'm drinking, I just make myself look stupid...
ReplyDeleteAs other posters noted, Punk absolutely got it this week with Bret, but if you noticed, they immediately hit his music for the walk back up the ramp to drown it. Between that, killing crowd mics and REALLY canning the crowd noise, there is no chance you would hear it anyway.
ReplyDeleteI actually thought it was funny. They try to get Punk heat, and when he finally DOES get heat without the "gun and box of puppies", they drown out the chant.
which btw is why I hated that the WWF itself didn't get it right for several times. for example: Mr. McMahon ordering Trish Stratus to strip down to her underwear will definitely not make 16 year old guys boo him.
ReplyDeleteand not only that. I must admit I too would at least think twice about shouting curse words if I was surrounded by children.
ReplyDeletealthough I think that wasn't the point. it could have been almost anywhere.
ReplyDeletethe difference: loads of wrestling fanatics that attended WrestleMania and also got tickets for the next Raw as well (there are even dozens of the same guys in the first row!).
I would love it at the X-Games. Because I'm an evil cynical bastard and I'd love to see a crowd of people chanting "You fucked up!" at a 12 year old.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with ROH vs. CZW or EVOLVE is that ROH draws bigger traffic, and they apparently were just never on a good enough server to handle it all. They need to get that in order or stop the iPPV model altogether. Likewise, they need to stop streaming the shows live and switch to a paid download model or something, because there aren't enough benefits to streaming it live to be worth the effort. They also need to look into getting their back catalog that isn't available anymore onto Netflix so they can get more exposure, but that's neither here nor there.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about how much everyone would like the paid download method yesterday - especially if we could get the shows they now sell on DVD. I think the problem is the fear of piracy. I know at least 3 sites I can download all the pirated indie wrestling I want and I'm someone who buys my indie wrestling shows. I don't think there's enough money in indie wrestling to absorb the piracy from downloading shows.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, there has to be a better solution than the constant broken streams. I would have to think upgrading servers would be a better return on investment than waiting for enough disgruntled customers to stop buying iPPVs. Maybe it would be worth taking a hit on revenue just to keep some customers.
You know it's bad when people wrestling on the show are Tweeting asking if anyone can watch them on the stream. The frustration in the locker room must be intense.
Very true. I hadn't thought about that before. Imagine the heel Batista with a full year's worth of self-centered, dickish backstory. The WM 26 feud would've meant so much more (and even more if he turned heel right after he beat Cena at Summerslam 08).
ReplyDeleteIf there's a reason I can use the line "kissing babies and huggin' fat girls," in everyday conversation, believe me, I use it. Loved heel Batista almost as much as tweener Batista in early 05.
While we're on the ROH subject, I'm taking this week off from recapping, my computer is being touch & go about streaming any video for some reason and it's a little late now anyway.
ReplyDelete