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Schrödinger's Clique

Scott,
I just realized why I love Aces & Eights:
They're not a Geezer Squad. They're not The Main Event Mafia or The Millionaire's Club, a group of old guys we love to see... just not controlling the main event, robbing younger wrestlers of their time to shine.
They're not a Job Squad. They're not NXT or The New Blood, a group of unproven wrestlers who deserve it, but since we know they'd probably lose a fair fight to a main eventer, they pose no real threat.
As long as Aces & Eights remain unknown, they exist somewhere in between. When we see one take out a guy like Austin Ares, we believe it, because for all we know it's Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, or someone with enough "Superstar Points" to pull it off. And yet, it somehow also doesn't feel like backstage politics keeping the same old guys on top, because for all we know, it's some new badass we haven't seen.
Aces & Eights feel *simultaneously* established *and* full of promise, and it's like nothing I've ever seen before.
- Zeus

Really?  Because it's feeling more and more like the Dungeon of Doom to me as we go along.  I mean it's not a terrible storyline overall, but it's getting way past the expiration date for something to advance the storyline or reveal the leader or give any kind of meaningful information on them.  Slow burning a story is one thing, but obviously they're stretching things out to hit the PPVs, which is weird because no one buys them anyway.  I think they had an intriguing idea when they started, but if their big payoff is introducing D-Lo Brown in an on-screen role out of nowhere and then turning him into the big traitor with Eric Bischoff as the mysterious leader...I dunno man.  That's not the ideal payoff, to say the least.  

Comments

  1. They need to reveal their purpose. I can't picture a group of bikers showing up to City Walk every Thursday just to fuck with the wrestlers for no reason

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  2. As I mentioned in the Snark Rant thread, it's also getting a bit silly with all the kidnapping, torture, etc. At least when WWE goes to this length (Ministry Taker with Steph, Edge and Paul Bearer), there's sort of a tongue-in-cheek in that the WWE isn't trying to sell this like it's a "Taken" movie, but here, they just want us to buy this dangerous group so much but it's starting to clash with the fact we "know" it's wrestling (sorry, but I don't want someone pulling a knife on the Stinger or Aries trying to rip someone's tongue out with pliers). There's a fine line between slow burn and spinning your wheels and A&8 is using that as a jump rope, so hopefully there's some real progress leading to BFG.

    They also screwed up by having them on TV every week. As they showed up every week, you'd think Hogan et al would beef up security or something, but he was basically "COME ON IN BROTHERS, JUST WAIT IN THE BACK TILL THE MAIN EVENT!". It would've worked better if they didn't know when they were going to strike and upping the paranoid fuel for all involved. 

    And fuck me if it ends up being Bischoff. 

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  3. The best way to make this angle work, long term, is to never reveal who's behind it.

    You can do all kinds of fun things with these guys who are hiding their identities.  As long as you keep to a core group, surrounded by lackeys who DO get unmasked it all works pretty well.  Hell, have guys on the roster join the group but in so doing abandon their individual identities.

    Have guys join but never reveal it, doing the whole double life thing.Then you have the TNA Hero of your choice defeat their leader, brawl with him outside the arena, unmask him and then refuse to identify him or allow him to show his face on camera, denying him anything for his efforts.

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  4. Aces & Eights is veering toward Black Scorpion territory.

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  5. Hah, well, when I wrote this, it was the 21st, and I'd just missed the TNA episode on the 20th. Aces & Eights wasn't so kidnappy back then. They should really focus on gang attacks, not torture and darkness crap.

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  6. This. I'm cool with the slow burn on the identity revelation (mostly because I'm afraid of who it is), but there needs to be some progression of the angle. Even if they don't have a secret master plan, and they're the proverbial "some men just want to watch the world burn", then say that, and why TNA is the place to start the fire.

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  7. I'm enjoying the angle so far. I think people are so pre-conditioned because of The Ministry and the Nexus to thinking groups like this need some kind of purpose and a clear leader and revealed identities and all that jazz that they're missing the character beats as it goes along. These are just bad guys who want to make their name in TNA, and they do so while hiding their identities. Eventually there needs to be some more clarity with who the characters are (The Armbreaker was a good start) and maybe one central guy to build around, but I don't think there is one iota of value in unmasking them and revealing them to be Luke Gallows and Mike Knox, etc. I think Aces & Eights should just stay how it is and give everyone a name within the gimmick, and make Aces & Eights work as its own thing rather than a set up for a reveal. 

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  8. Actually I like the schrodinger's clique comparison. I think part of the problem with it is they kept teasing resolutions then bait and switching. If they had just started out this way, running in at will at random times, and not even bothered trying to recreate the Invasion, it would have been much more scary, effective, and justifiable to stretch it out as long as they wanted.

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  9. I think it would be pretty cool if they didn't reveal who exactly the group is. Maybe it's better not to have a big reveal or whatever because it's expected. At the same time, they should really ramp up the angle because it's going pretty slow.

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  10. I can get past the dumb name of the group. 

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  11. The lack of Garrett Bishoff the last few months concerned me. It's not like anyone really wanted to see Garrett Bishoff do anything, yet they pushed him anyway, so I figured if he disappeared there was a reason for it, and not the "he sucks and the only reason he was on tv was because he's Eric's son" reason it should have been. I'm holding out hope it's not Bishoff related but I'm concerned. It'll just turn into another "you ran me out of the company so I'm taking over" angle, featuring a guy who's been in many of them.

    All I want for the reveal is something different, something meaningful. Either a big name who's not currently in TNA, or a big name that nobody would expect. Robert Roode, for example, would do nothing for me because he's already a heel.

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  12. The problem I have with it is them targeting Sting and Hogan. Anything involved with them makes it look way too cartoony. They should have kept the focus on guys like Aries, Hardy, and Storm.

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  13. He should...he's got two of those

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  14. So it's going to drag on for nearly two years before culminating in Sting and Hogan in a triple-decker cage against Ric Flair and 7 other guys? Please no....

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  15. He's actually got serious legal issues right now. But then again, TNA still continues to employ Jeff Hardy so it probably doesn't matter.

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  16. Zeus's best match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpnyOlQUF8k

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  17. That match actually happened! WOW! Best youtube link ever. 

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  18. YankeesHoganTripleHFanSeptember 29, 2012 at 4:39 PM

    I have never watched TNA, nor will I ever, (your so much better then that Hogan) but what is this Aces of Eights that you speak of. Have they seen The Sign? Is their life demanding, without understanding?

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  19. why aren't you giving them a shot?  Why so definite about it?

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  20. great point and at this point, it wouldn't make sense for the guy behind this to be Samoa Joe since what would he have against Sting and Hogan, particularly Sting?  It smacks of it being Bischoff, unfortunately.  That doesn't mean I'll stop watching by any means since it's currently the best wrestling product in the U.S., in my opinion.

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  21.  To use it as a springboard to Nashville and their country music careers?

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  22. My bet is Jarrett. Didn't Sting or Hogan force him out kayfabe wise awhile back? I wasn't watching then.

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  23. All I remember was a skit with Jarrett being a janitor or something stupid like that but that was with Russo around. 

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  24. "WWE's security is way too good."

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  25. I've been thinking Jarrett too, simply because he's been away for so long.

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  26. YankeesHoganTripleHFanSeptember 29, 2012 at 6:22 PM

    Because I grew up in Jersey, and went to college in NYC. I have been to the original Yankee Stadium many times. I have been to Broadway, many times. I have been to Giants Stadium, many times. After seeing that why would you watch second best. Don't get me wrong I always enjoyed going to minor league game

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  27. Easy, Joe was "The Man" before they came in.  TNA threw him aside to kiss their ass.

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  28. YankeesHoganTripleHFanSeptember 29, 2012 at 8:27 PM

    You can insult me Polo...thats ok. But come on...at least hit me with something better then *****Troll.

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  29.  You must be a huge fan of Justin Bieber.  By the sound of it, he fits your criteria of "best".

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  30.  Joe had stopped being the man long before H&B arrived.  I wasn't watching on a regular basis, but I sorta still kept up and he was like the 6th wheel of the MEM and that was many months after they had formed.  Of course, this was Russo booking.

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  31. YankeesHoganTripleHFanSeptember 29, 2012 at 9:24 PM

    Nature Boy thats easily the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Beiber sucks but that not even the point. Like I said to Polo, I don't mind if you insult me but please hit me with somthing good...better then a Justin Bieber refrence.

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  32. I understand not watching something because it is not your thing, being too busy, etc.  but this whole attitude of "well I don't watch something because it's 2nd most popular and I'm proud of that" is so weird to me.  It seems completely illogical and I've seen a few fans echo that sentiment and people seem to be proud or even boastful about it. 

    There are a million perfectly good justifications to not watch, so why settle on popularity? 

    Your comparisons don't really make sense either -- it's not like watching a high school basketball game where 99% of the players on the floor will never have the talent to warm the bench in the NBA, TNA has some of the best wrestlers in the world on their roster.

    Honestly, I think it's just a intellectualized self-justification that allows people to go on being a mark for their sentimental favorite, because they don't want to admit that's what it is.

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  33. LOL wow, I had no idea Zeus did any other stuff outside his WWF and WCW run.

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  34. But he called you a five star troll. That's got to account for something.

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  35. ..other than when a "fired" wrestler sits a ringside and interferes in a match.

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  36. And that's why they're spinning their wheels with A&8s. There's no one on the free agent market that'd make a believeable leader for these guys, and no one wants Jarrett or Bitchoff back on TV.

    They're not paying anything off now because there isn't an "ideal payoff" available right now.

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  37. YankeesHoganTripleHFanSeptember 29, 2012 at 10:35 PM

    I am replying to you directly because discus is not working....better a 5 star troll then a 2 star troll, lool



    Subject: [rspwfaq2] Re: Scott's Blog Of Doom!: Schrödinger's Clique

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  38. YankeesHoganTripleHFanSeptember 29, 2012 at 10:54 PM

    NWA 88. I am responding to you directly because discus is disabled right now. First of all. thank you for not calling me a "troll or a "justin beiber" fan. The fact is...I never cared about high school or college, football or basketball, because I had pro teams basically in my backyard. Having said that, I love watching minor league baseball in person, and if TNA came to Raleigh, I would love to go see Hogan, Sting and Angle. But, I would still rather watch the WWF, (I refuse to call it by that other name) on TV in front of 16,00 fans then TNA in front of 2,000. The WWF, to me, is still the major leagues and as much as I love Hogan and Sting, right now they are playing in the minors. (Oh and my...ahem..."Mark for my sentimantal favorite" is Triple H)



    Subject: [rspwfaq2] Re: Scott's Blog Of Doom!: Schrödinger's Clique

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  39. Flair is simply pointing out the gaping hole in your logic

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  40. @google-6f0c06582d5c2a7b211b77616ff2da67:disqus @YankeesHoganTripleHFan:disqus

    Kyle gets it.

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  41. Isn't Johnny Ace unemployed? (I'm not sure)

    He'd make a helluva pay off.

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  42. Well for the record, I don't think there is anything wrong with being a mark for someone or an organization as long you admit it. Everyone has their biases. I think it's just disingenuous to try to mask it as something else.

    If you prefer the WWE because of the size of the crowd and therefore, the particularly "flavor" atmosphere of the event, well I think that's a perfectly acceptable reason. I'm kind of picky about production values in general myself and like to watch a slickly produced wrestling program.

    That's different than saying "well I like x because x is perceived as bigger than x". It seems a very close-minded way of thinking, like listening to nothing but dance music right now, just because that is what most people listen to right now. Just because something is popular, doesn't make it good. Hell, look at the Knicks for the last 12 or 13 years.

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  43. Except that Hogan put Joe in the mix for the TV title, which he ultimately won. So for Joe to claim disrespect at this point would be a stretch.

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  44. SWERVE AND A HALF - It's Jarrett, but with the Ring Ka King crew behind him. OUTSOURCING!

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  45. Joe started losing Sting when Angle came in (and Angle was the 3rd victim of A&8 I believe). He was REALLY buried when Sting came in.


    But yeah, the storyline doesn't work now because Joe has fought against Aces numerous time now. I was just saying you COULD have used Joe.

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  46. Surely I'm not the only one who thinks these are guys that lost the "Gut Check"?

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