Has there ever been a wrestler that has refused or expressed desire not to make it to the next level? Someone who perhaps doesn't want all the glitz, glamor or headaches of having to be champion?
Longtime fan...
Of course. Not everyone wants to be champion. Even trying to get into WWE pretty much expresses that you want to be the best, but there's a million indy guys who are totally happy doing it part-time and living a normal life outside of the business.
To be more specific can anyone name a "name" that has done so?
ReplyDeleteThe closest I can think of is Eddy, but thats after he got the belt.
I've heard of Barry Windham generally having this attitude despite that one title reign
ReplyDeleteEddie was the first thought for me too.
ReplyDeleteAnother interesting topic could be disappointing title reigns after a great title win that gave hope of an awesome run. I would think both Eddie and Benoit in 2004 fit that mold. Warrior in 90?
ReplyDeleteDoes Ricky Steamboat's WWF run count? I thought he ended up getting turfed because he didn't want to deal with their travel schedule? I don't recall anyone saying he would get a title run.
ReplyDeleteThat's my understanding also. Especially regarding his awesome program with Flair around '87--Flair was said to have been willing to lose the belt to him, but Windham wasn't really interested.
ReplyDeleteI think the model for that would be the fist Sting title run.
ReplyDeleteAj styles and the other TNA lifers seem to fall in that category
ReplyDeleteHe wanted a break after he won the IC title because he is kid was born. They basically jobbed him out until he quit because of it.
ReplyDeleteEven these guys get to the WWE some of them are happy as curtain jerkers and jobbers. On his blu-ray doc CM Punk mentions that some wrestlers are sitting in the locker room looking at the call sheet and really hoping they don't have a match that week.
ReplyDeleteJackpot.
ReplyDeleteAnd I wonder how many of them are the guys that get "pushed" on here? I doubt any, but there are always surprises...
ReplyDeleteYep, great example for sure.
ReplyDeleteBenoit's title win was basically a lifetime achievement award. I don't know what you were really expecting.
ReplyDeleteCHRISTIAN'S TITLE WINS
ReplyDeleteWell I know what we WEREN'T expecting.
ReplyDeleteYeah. Losing the title to Randy Orton was kinda unexpected.
ReplyDeleteThat RKO came out of nowhere!
ReplyDeleteWow, seriously? I have to wonder who some of those guys are.
ReplyDeleteBeing booked as the #2 face behind Eugene was certainly NOT what we had in mind.
ReplyDeleteThat DVD has got to be one of the most insightful and "inside" one that has been produced by WWE.
ReplyDeleteAh yes Randy Orton, a failed babyface. It took years for him to recover from the HHH burial, but then again some guys never recover, like Booker T, Hurricane, Goldust, RVD....
ReplyDeleteHonestly, it didn't surprise me that much. I can't imagine that working a match is an easy thing to do. And that's before you even think about all the make-up, costume, getting into character, etc. that comes along with performing. Some of the undercard "superstars" probably know that there's not much higher than can go and are just happy picking up their low-end guaranteed contract rather than killing themselves every week for minimal reward. I see it as no different than any other job - every office has the clock punchers that never aspire to move into upper management, don't want to go the extra mile, and are happy with their paycheck.
ReplyDeleteAfter what happened to Zach Ryder when he put so much energy and time into getting over I really couldn't blame any of them if they did choose to lay low. For every Daniel Bryan that Vince allows to get over, there's a Colt Cabana, Low-Ki, Zach Ryder, etc. in the rear-view mirror.
ReplyDeleteAt least for modern WWE politics.
ReplyDeleteOr they have a good thing going in TNA and don't want to start over in developmental as "Heywood Jablovince."
ReplyDeleteAJ Styles has turned down a few offers from Vince, no? Samoa Joe, too.
ReplyDeleteAt ANY job, in ANY industry, there are plenty of people that do the bare minimum not to get fired - not surprising that there would be a number of guys that just want to travel the globe and collect a six-figure paycheck without having to risk injury.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Although, do the jobbers in WWE get 6 figures? I remember hearing that the bottom of the card makes less than we usually expect.
ReplyDeleteScott Steiner was one of the notable ones for this, not wanting to leave Rick behind, although there was more to it than that.
ReplyDeleteThe perils of recruiting guys straight off the football field or bodybuilding stage.
ReplyDeleteEl Dandy. Ironically, it was his own self doubt that kept him from the main event.
ReplyDeleteI had heard that the lowest of the card gets at least 250K per year, however. They are independent contractors. They often have to pay for a lot of their travel and lodging, plus food. (Which. we all pay for that, but these guys have to eat out, every night of the week.)
ReplyDeleteAustin Idol. Could have been a world champion, but liked his beaches and women.
ReplyDeleteNot that I blame him.
A little more focus on top...there was quite a lot of disappointment out there when he was shunted into tag matches and undercard feuds with Kane.
ReplyDeleteOdd to imagining being mentioned here but what about HBK post 2002? I thought they wanted to put the title on him at least once and he turned it down. 2008 maybe?
ReplyDeleteThat could actually be a funny gimmick for a wrestler. An underachiever who doesn't care about winning matches or titles, yet goes on a long winning streak. Kind of like a character similar to Peter Gibbons in Office Space
ReplyDeleteYou are on point.
ReplyDeleteand btw, how awesome is the "universal heartthrob" as a moniker?
flair says a lot shit, dont make it true.
ReplyDelete500 an appearance
ReplyDeletehe wasnt given a good hand to play on that first go-round tbf
ReplyDeleteFlairs 93 title win from vader, wasnt the greatest title run.
ReplyDeleteI remember an Arn shoot where he said that Barry got married to a super wealthy woman in Atlanta so he just didn't care about the belt. Plus he started working in the office before the Turner sale if I'm not mistaken so I don't think he had to worry much about money or job security.
ReplyDeleteEpic.
ReplyDeleteThe book on Kofi has always been that he's perfectly happy being a midcard guy. Loves wrestling, but doesn't want to involve himself in politics or deal with the pressure of a main event push.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea if that's true, but that's what I've read on the dirt sheets.
Sean Waltman is the first guy I thought of. He always seemed like he was happy just being a midcard guy.
ReplyDeleteTHREADJACK:
ReplyDeleteFor anyone thinking the whole Punk/urn stuff was in bad taste... well, the Moody family signed off on it, so if you're concerned about them feeling disrespected, they weren't.
http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/277862/Paul-Bearers-Family-Signed-Off-on-CM-Punk-Urn-Angle.htm
"Who are you to doubt El Dandy?"
ReplyDelete"Soy El Dandy."
"Oh. Carry on."
If only Bret had addressed the man himself. Fuckin' Hitman...
ReplyDeleteLucky for him, cause he sure as shit wasn't getting any further up the card than that.
ReplyDeleteSurprised nobody has used it since.
ReplyDeleteHey not bad, that's TNA money
ReplyDeleteThus they are content with where they are and don't want to try and make it in the big leagues
ReplyDeleteAfter an 12 day hiatus in Europe, I'M Back, everyone's favorite mid carder is here to make Snide comments and defend the indys, you may all sleep better tonight knowing I have returned!
ReplyDeleteHis finishing move could be called "The Bare Minimum."
ReplyDeleteThat's what he gets for not wearing a condom!
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't mean it wasn't in poor taste. though, I digress.
ReplyDeleteAnd speaking of the clique, there's always Razor.
ReplyDeletetrue dat
ReplyDeleteNot sure how you pull this off w/out making everyone he beats who IS trying hard look like a total schmuck.
ReplyDeleteOoh, great reply!
ReplyDeleteThis was kind of like Norman Smiley as WCW hardcore champion...he hated hardcore matches and kept trying to lose the belt, but ended up always retaining somehow.
ReplyDeleteYeah, he once said that Cleveland rocks, so I'd have to agree with your assessment of him
ReplyDeleteI remember reading an interview with Vito where he talked about how he knew he was never going to be champ, and was quite content doing what he was doing. I think this was definitely before the "wearing dresses" phase in WWE, but I can't recall if this was during his WCW days or early in his WWE run.
ReplyDeleteThread jack: so not only has rock not been on raw for two weeks but he was a two segment guest on the tonight show and never plugged the wwe or wrestlemania or mentioned he was the champ.
ReplyDeleteTo steal another guys bit:
Did You Know...
No one in the mainstream media will even acknowledge the wwe exists!!!
THREADJACK:
ReplyDeleteApparently Rock made no mention of WWE whatsoever during his appearance on the Tonight Show.
Some dedicated and proud WWE champ we got there, yessirree.
Well anyone who was saying "omg his family had to see this" is wrong
ReplyDeleteI didn't say anything about it not being in bad taste. I said that if you think his family was bothered, they weren't, b/c they endorsed it.
ReplyDeleteLol, simultaneous thread jack!
ReplyDeleteIt has less to do with mainstream media and more with THE FUCKING CHAMPION no-selling his paycheck, his "role" (see what I did there), and the biggest show of the year.
ReplyDeleteF the Rock. F him in the A.
Makes me wonder if something is going on. Isn't a huge reason for rock being champ and working the main event at mania because he can get mainstream exposure?
ReplyDeleteUnbelievable to not even mention he's the champ. Plus he hasn't been on the last two raws. And it's not like the tonight show is "above" promoting wrestling.
ReplyDeleteSmarky minds things alike
ReplyDeleteHe might have in WCW thanks to his association with Hall and Nash, but the injuries killed any chance of that happening.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they're setting up a hollywood Rock turn!
ReplyDeleteHonestly, Windham leveled off about where he should have. As a tag champ, US title holder or foil for the world champ, fine. His in ring work could support him at that level, but he simply didn't have the mic or promo skills to carry the big gold belt for an extended period or as anything more than a transitional champion. Windham is actually pretty analogous to Benoit as far as what he brought to the table. A level ring work, a good look, but middling to weak mic skills.
ReplyDeleteI didn't really get the outrage. They gave him a very nice tribute and Punk didn't interrupt until after the video was over. If they had said Paul Bearer's ashes were in the urn or something then it'd be too much, but as is it seems relatively harmless.
ReplyDeleteOne of the best comments ever. LMAO.
ReplyDeleteHow about Jake Roberts or British Bulldog? Both instantly recognizable to wrestling fans, both big names, yet seemed content where they were. See also: Mr. Perfect, Arn Anderson, Ted Dibiase, Magnum TA, Paul Orndorff, Bobby Eaton.
ReplyDeleteWarrior in 90 was awful. The feud with Rude made sense but the buildup sucked. All the hype was on Hogan/Andre.
ReplyDeleteI guess Sting in 97 too. He defended against Hall, lost it out of the blue to Macho man and that was the end of it, after over a year chasing the nWo. Few months later he was in the Wolfpac.
I miss Norman. My friend who didn't even like wrestling thought he was awesome.
ReplyDeleteI had a buddy who once ginnned up an idea for a similar character. A guy who got really close to winning the title once and failed, then just got really lazy and unkempt and threw matches on purpose. But he had a really ace submission finish (I forget what it was) so if he countered out of something into it he'd win almost instantly.
ReplyDeleteYou said "For anyone thinking the whole Punk/Urn stuff was in bad taste..."
ReplyDeleteit's right there dude.
Not to defend Rock on that but generally Tonight Show et al appearances are bought and paid for by whatever studio is pimping their movie, so they don't really have the freedom to throw stuff in. The GI Joe peole likely sponsored his appearance, so he was prob contractually obligated to only mention them. I remember once even seeing Willis on Conan pimping Hostage and not mentioning Sin City when they had Jamie King pushing Sin City in the next segment, despite Bruce being pretty much the biggest star in the film.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say, "For anyone thinking it was in bad taste, well it wasn't," I said, "If you think it was in bad taste and were concerned that Paul Bearer's family had a problem with it, they didn't"
ReplyDeleteI never said, "Moody family endorsement = not in bad taste."
It's right there dude.
Yeah HBK didn't want to do house shows etc really unfortunate he never had a good final farewell title reign.
ReplyDeleteI once read that Kane turned down a second title run (with the WWE title, that is.)
ReplyDeleteBad taste is not an absolute. There are degrees of nuance and opinion there.
ReplyDeleteI was about to say Dolph, but he doesn't win.
ReplyDeleteWCW didn't see much in him. Remember he was the only guy there given a full out release of his contract so he could jump ship.
ReplyDeleteNorman's run was one of the few things I liked about Russo's reign of terror.
ReplyDeleteWho's ready for new NXT stat El Sammy Sane-ico?
ReplyDeleteBingo!
ReplyDeleteNot everyone that applies to the mail room has aspirations to be CEO some day.
Some people are perfectly happy sorting mail.
Anyone who gets bent out of shape over a perceived disrespect to a man and family that they do not know one bit isn't even worth listening to.
ReplyDeleteJust looking for reasons to be offended.
That would be amazing.
ReplyDeleteJohn McChesney should have been a huge star but he refused to do any kind of steroids or performance enhancing drugs. Holds a pinfall victory over CM Punk. Here's a cool cage match vs. Fallen Angel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1kBByHAD_I
ReplyDeleteEl Dandy looked like Warwick Davis with gigantism.
ReplyDeleteHe was supposed to get Colin Delaney's spot as the modern day Mikey Whipwreck but didn't arrive in time or something. He's a local boy here. He had some damn fine matches against Low-Ki and had a strong showing in IWC's Super Indy years back, but the luster wore off after a while.
ReplyDeleteFABOOOOUUUULLLLLSSSSSSS! (IWC inside joke... he was "Fabulous" John McChesney" but someone in the audience messed up their sign, and the mistake stuck.)
Whoops, my bad.
ReplyDeleteBad brainfart of a misread there.
God, it's like I'm in the wrestling blog version of Compton. Better hold your threads tight before they get jacked.
ReplyDeleteWindham is the right answer. Flair AND Dusty basically begged him to take Crockett to the next level once Magnum T.A.'s career ended. He wanted nothing to do with anything more than an upper mid-card level.
ReplyDeleteEarthquake you mean?
ReplyDeleteHe totally stole that from another Hall of Famer.
ReplyDeleteI thought he got fired because of his neck problems.
ReplyDeleteYeah but WWE is pimping the shit out of GI Joe. You'd think they wouldn't mind him talking about WWE since it would mean more eyeballs on their movie.
ReplyDeleteOrton.
ReplyDeletePlus NBC (Comcast) owns the stations that WWE programming is on... so this makes zero sense on the surface. You'd think Leno would say something like, "so, you're wrestling again?"
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. Did the family of Larry Hagman get insulted that they turned his death into a storyline on Dallas?
ReplyDeleteHmm? Really?
ReplyDeleteDoes the Tonight Show have some precedent for being involved in wrestling?
...Bueller? Bueller?
"Gimmie that thread fool, it's a full time jack move..."
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/0vsLcNJdF9k
Didn't he marry some rich chick?
ReplyDeleteMaybe Vince can get Jay Leno to headline a PPV.
ReplyDeleteI just recently read a quote from him where he talked about evaluating what he needs to do in order to make the jump to main eventer.
ReplyDeleteThat Blu-ray is $13 at my local Walmart. Am I crazy for having not already bought it? I have access to the documentary on Netflix, and can always find the matches online, but for that price it seems worth owning.
ReplyDeleteI usually buy the REALLY good stuff just to show some support with my wallet so more releases like that happen.
ReplyDeleteI guess that nixes the whole ideology of "imagine how much publicity Rock will get going on talk shows as champion and on the red carpet with the title!" I supported Rock getting the title at first, but not being on Raw in a while, no "Hey I'm wrestling in 3 weeks" no anything. Might as well have kept the title on Punk. At least his build to a match with Undertaker would have meant something.
ReplyDeleteLike Pittsburgh is the greatest city in the world...
ReplyDeleteWho are you?
ReplyDeleteI TRIED TO TELL ALL OF YOU!!!
ReplyDeleteI said it months ago.
Yea my bad
ReplyDeleteclassic song.
ReplyDeleteI know, I know. I was a fool. I was swayed by the whole argument of him talking up the match on talk shows with the title belt and taking it with him on Red Carpet and interviews. Seeing how that hasn't happened it's been a waste. I bow to you and admit Punk should have just kept the title. And as for the problem of Undertaker being champ and not working many shows...have him work Extreme Rules or something. Or break their logic and have Dolph cash in.
ReplyDeleteRoddy Piper has said he never wanted to be champion, that he hated belts, and he was happiest being the challenger. Also, does Ken Griffey Jr. count? The guy could have been the greatest of all time but he was content with being simply great, because it took less effort. (Same thing with Barry Windham.)
ReplyDeleteInjuries hurt Griffey more than anything.
ReplyDeleteBooker DID recover.
ReplyDeleteEhh, the guy went out in a blaze of 5* matches. I don't think we could have asked for much more.
ReplyDeleteI was lucky to see him main event a house show with in 2009. Cena was off promoting a movie, so we got HBK instead. Seemed like a fair trade to me.
ReplyDelete