Hey Scott,
I always find myself watching things from the Attitude Era, which I love, but has been overrated based on nostalgia. I was wondering--for all that gets made of the popularity of wrestling at the time, why didn't the WWF/WWE take advantage by booking a huge stadium show ala current Wrestlemanias? Was the company still trying to get its confidence back after a rough patch? Or does this shed some light on the era as being more about television ratings?
Thought a wrestling guru like yourself might have an answer.
Thanks
Really enjoy the blog.
Well they did do huge stadium shows for Wrestlemania 17-19 If you're talking for the 99 and 2000 versions, I think they thought they couldn't pull off those kind of ticket sales because, as you say, they were still a bit gunshy from the downturn. And given that it's better to sell out than have tons of empty seats, it's fine that they didn't run a stadium show. Plus at that point Wrestlemania wasn't the huge established juggernaut that it is now, and they hadn't run a stadium for WM since 1992. Look what happened in 97 with the Alamodome and how embarrassing that was, sales-wise. LIke in 2000 can you imagine trying to sell 60,000 tickets for that shitty four-way main event?
The thing I've never understood is why they stopped running WM as a stadium show for three years after WM XIX
ReplyDeleteWM XX being at MSG I can understand, but why were 21 and 22 held in normal arenas rather than stadiums?
Sure, wrestling had dipped in popularity compared to the Attitude days by then but it was still doing fine, at least as well as it is today
everyone.
ReplyDeletewhere was 21?
ReplyDeleteim lazy. i know cali/hollyweird
What school did you go to? Trailer Park Middle?
ReplyDelete(I kid, I kid.)
Staples Center.
ReplyDeleteI started to realize I wasn't the casual "fad" wrestling fan in 1998 or so when I was less concerned about the current product as I was about renting all the old Wrestlemanias and Halloween Havocs from Blockbuster
ReplyDeleteI hated that 4-way main event. I was at that Wrestlemania and it didn't feel like a WM main event, especially compared to Austin-HBK and Rock-Austin the previous two years.
ReplyDeleteNah, just some Midwest shit hole. I remember it being really popular in early 1999 when I was in 6th or 7th grade with Austin, DX and Undertaker shirts. I remember trying to get my father to take my friends and I to a house show but he hated wrestling so much cause of the media painting the picture that it was to sexual and violent.
ReplyDeleteThen the fad ended a year later and everyone was into Yo Yo's for 2 or 3 months and those little finger skateboard things.
what is interesting is that Jericho swears that the WWf always intended it to be a 4 way, and even cited promo materials with him in it instead of Foley. The idea that it was a last minute decision to do the 4 way to milk another huge buy at Backlash (which worked) is seemingly incorrect.
ReplyDeleteOverrated based on nostalgia is false. The Attitude Era was best experienced live as there was a HUGE sense of urgency as to what was going to happen next week. Plus the over tones of the Monday Night War made Monday Nights a wild experience, of course remote in hand flipping back and forth. 98-99 didn't feature a lot of 4 star affairs, that's what 2000 was for and WCW. Best time to be a fan.
ReplyDeleteBased on my own little corner of the world, that WM was probably the peak of casual interest. It seemed as if everyone was into wrestling at that point and we were literally turning people away from PPV viewings at the bar I worked at.
ReplyDeleteI had a very old friend who I'd watched with since we were kids and people actually thought we were ahead of the curve because we'd seen tapes of ECW and Japan and stuff. We were watching wrestling tapes in our parents basements - and that was cool. What a time.
They explain this on the Story of Wrestlemania DVD. Vince didn't think of it as going back to "normal arenas", they thought of it as going to New York, Los Angeles and Chicago. But after 22 Vince decided to do Stadium shows permanently.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget how hot the Rock 1st SNL appearance was, where Foley, Show, and HHH co-starred here and there.
ReplyDeleteI wonder:are those two tools still sitting somewhere in the Alamodome?
ReplyDeleteThey easily could of filled out large stadiums in 99 and 00. They were at their peak of success so logically if they could do it in 01 and 03 they could do it then. It was probably paranoia that stopped them during that period due to the likes of the rr97 fiasco. Didn't they do a raw or some show at the skydome in Toronto? What was the attendance?
ReplyDeleteJericho mentions this in his book but I don't believe it. I think he was featured on the original promo posters because he was a guy going to be featured on the show , not necessarily because he was going to be in the main event.
ReplyDeleteThey drew likw 45000+ for a Raw in 1999. Selling out a stadium for WM would have been no problem.
ReplyDeleteWM 15 would been dicey because they need to book a stadium like a year in advancd. For WM 16, I think they just really wanted to be in LA again.
When I was a boy, I always dreamed of being in an Attitude Era audience.
ReplyDeleteYeah if I recall correctly wasn't Wrestlemania X7 the next year and absolutely hugely popular?
ReplyDeleteAlso has anyone noticed how much better shape Big-Show is in these days? goodness!
Its a lot easier to pull the trigger on trying to get a massive gate when you're the only game in town. It wasn't until after WCW was no longer a threat did they stop playing so conservatively with that.
ReplyDeleteWhat?
ReplyDelete"Like in 2000 can you imagine trying to sell 60,000 tickets for that shitty four-way main event?"
ReplyDeleteThe match may not have been good, but for a Mania main event, that was a pretty huge match at the time. I mean, sure, we already saw Show/Triple H/Rock as a triple threat twice, but with the added inclusion of the McMahons and Foley, it was a huge main event.
Big Show was HILARIOUS in that episode.
ReplyDeleteMcMahon: "Pehaps one day you, Mick, or even you Triple H, as WWF Champion, could host SNL!"
Big Show: "Even ME?"
McMahon: "No Show..."
I liked the tradition of the shoutout to the first few Manias by having WM20-23 again be in New York, LA, Chicago and Detroit. Also, WM21 ended up one of the best-built cards in history and was even a good enough show to wake up the notorious Staples Center crowd. WM22, conversely, was a shakily-built show that was made better by the Allstate Arena's red-hot responses to everything.
ReplyDeleteLA and Chicago may not able to get Manias but at least L.A. gets Summerslam every year and Chicago seems to be getting an annual PPV since it's always a hot crowd.
The "biggest Raw ever" as it was marketed in Canada, yet it ended up being just a standard (and pretty lackluster) edition of Raw. I think the Skydome was partially partitioned off for that show like they used to do for Raptors games but it still drew 30,000 easy. Had Wrestlemania 15 been at Skydome it would've been an easy sellout.
ReplyDeleteEven if not a stadium, any venue would've been better than the Anaheim Pond. It boggles the mind that such a traditionally quiet crowd in the LA suburbs received two Manias in five years. WM16 wasn't a blowaway show by any means but I think we'd all remember it better had the crowd been more into it. Just a month later, the legendary Backlash 2000 PPV blew Mania away since the Washington fans were completely into everything.
ReplyDeleteActually I went to a few shows during the Attitude Era... that was a Simpsons reference
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Vince even had the capital at the time to take a risk on a huge stadium show. They were on the ropes.
ReplyDeleteThat cemented Big Show as one of my favorite performers, even if his matches are generally bad.
ReplyDeleteI think WrestleMania 2000 with Rock/Triple H as the main event with the Triangle Ladder match as co-main could have sold some real estate.
ReplyDeleteIt's weird, a lot of people have that opinion, while I thought the match was a little underwhelming, I don't necessarily hate the idea. Now if it had been a regular fatal fourway with first pinfall winning, then I thought that would've been worthless, but I'm sort of a sucker for elimination matches and I think they were shooting to make it epic. I think it was a good idea, with poor execution, and not the right finish (although if the point was getting a HUGE gate with the next PPV, they more than succeeded)
ReplyDeleteI used to live in Orange County. Anaheim crowds are usually quiet. Ducks fans always get drowned out by fans of other teams.
ReplyDeleteKnow what's fucked up? Raw gets - what? - a third of the viewers that it got at its peak WHILE THEY WERE COMPETING WITH ACTUAL COMPETITION.
ReplyDeleteIn 2000 they could have went to the L.A. Coliseum and popped a major number. They were on a serious role with Rock as the No. 1 contender, Foley-HHH having two brutal classics. Angle, Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, etc. heating up the mid card and the Hardyz, Blonds, Dudleys tag-team triangle.
ReplyDeleteYeah Wrestlemania 2000 would have been a success in a big stadium IMO.
On the last part, are you implying that this is the most in shape he's been in his career or just this is the most he's been in shape in a long time?
ReplyDeleteCalifornia crowds suck.
ReplyDeleteI think we can all agree wwe had to work arenas because huntor isn't enough of a draw to fill a stadium
ReplyDeletePlus the 4 McMahons were actually over in 2000
ReplyDeleteOverrated is a fair assessment of Raw as a whole. There was just as much nonsense and ridiculous booking going on back then, the product was just hot and the top guys were more interesting.
ReplyDelete