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In defence of Schiavone ...

Hi - long time/first time etc

I get the hatred that Schiavone gets as a caller - especially when he was shilling and admittedly horrible product in '99. But that was his job, yeah?

However, as a basic play-by-play guy, I wonder why he cops SO much criticism. It's ironic that part of that criticism is based on his obsession with calling wrestling a "sport". I was watching the DVD of the best of WCW and, when it came to telling a match story, focusing on a relevant injury, or busting out correct move-calls like "right scissor" or "Le Majestral", or never confusing a neck-breaker with a jaw-breaker, he was pretty much flawless. So much of what gave WCW that air of 'it might be real' was his ability to name each maneouvre flawlessly.

But then again, I think WCW was always a little underrated and overrhated.

Schiavone was a totally fine PBP guy up until Bischoff got the Executive VP job over him, at which point he completely checked out and no longer gave a crap.  Even Tony himself has talked about how little he cared after a certain point.  I always liked Tony before that, though, especially during the 80s with David Crockett, the team that pretty much defined my wrestling fandom.  

Comments

  1. This is the greatest email in the history of our great blog.

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  2. The broadcast team involving Tony Schiavone and Jesse Ventura was the best broadcast team involving Tony Schiavone in WWF history.

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  3. Yeah, like this comment will put asses in the seats.

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  4. Schiavone certainly had his share of goofy calls (calling piledrivers "powerbombs," the infamous flying body attack, etc.) and sometimes he seemed uncooperative in the booth, leaving poor Bobby's jokes hanging out to dry. But he's not nearly as bad as history paints him. I'd still rather hear him that Cole.

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  5. If you want to see what Schiavone was capable of, watch Starrcade 1995. He snaps off move names like he's Mike Tenay or Joey Styles.

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  6. I really wish that whole deal with TNA had panned out, because Evil Tony Schiavone should have one of the greatest things in the history of our sport!

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  7. Let's get everybody out here and kick his rear end!

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  8. Yeah I don't understand this question. I think everyone liked Tony pre-nWo era.

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  9. He really didn't get bad until he had to tell everyone how evil Hogan was. I mean there is selling, and there is just killing the dead horse. He might have stopped caring by 1994, but it didn't really get noticeable until 1997.

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  10. All the WCW fans I met at the airport today are talking nonstop about this email!

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  11. Tony and Jesse Summerslam 1989... epic epic team. I never ever got the hate for Schiv's until the obvious not giving a crap about the product time in 1998 onwards.

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  12. Schiavone's commentary in Showdown: Legends of Wrestling is absolutely hysterical

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  13. Best announce team that never happened: Tony, Stevie Ray and Don West.

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  14. i was coming on to say the same exact thing tommy.


    Starrcade 95 is THE ppv to hear not only Tony at his best but Bobby at his WCW funniest and DUsty at his zaniest and it all clicks.

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  15. Best line hulk hogan you can go to hell strieght to hell!!(slams headset down) his selling of the nwo formation was a thing of beauty! With drunk bobby!

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  16. Tony got far too wrapped up in saying the same things from week to week, ESPECIALLY the "This is the most important Nitro/night/show in the HISTORY of our sport!" I mean, he literally did that DOZENS of times each year, if not more! He was also the head commentator during the "let's ignore what's going on in the ring in favor of whining about the nWo" thing, and is probably the most responsible for that.

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  17. I thought Tony's PBP was a strongpoint even in the '90-'91 timeframe, but his stuff during the '98-'00 window makes old WCW videos un-listenable for me. (Part of that belongs on Mike Tenay too. I always hated his voice).

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  18. That wouldve been epic and I think Schiavone couldve pulled it off

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  19. As Michael Cole would say....."Vintage Schiavone!"

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  20. Tenay is so blah, not a fan of his work at all.

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  21. It's indisputable that Tony was a fine PBP guy during the classic NWA and early WCW-proper days. It's only when he had to sell SPORTZ ENTERTAINMENT LITE that he started to suck, b/c it was way out of his element.

    It also cannot be stated enough how he and Brain really didn't have the best chemistry. I honestly don't think Tony understood Brain. He was decent with Ventura, though.

    As a side note, maybe it's a credit to Gino that it's a toss up as to whether he was better paired with Ventura or Brain.

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  22. Huh. That'll put butts in computer seats.

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  23. I actually met Schivone in an airport, and he was a real dick.

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  24. Schaivone and Heenan were a bad combo - very well stated. I love Bobby but he was cracking jokes and one liners that were far past their expiration date (much like Lawler today). The talking about Hogan and the nWo and Sting and everybody else instead of doing PBP also shot all his cred with me.

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  25. "So what, you can SHOOT A GUY as long as you're outside the ring?"

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  26. Warrior - Rude match, I'll never forget that line. I wish Jesse would replace King for one last commentary run.

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  27. I still remember how during the final ep of Nitro, in a bit from the RAW end of things, Regal made some disparaging remarks about how dreadful it was to work in WCW, and Tony basically started shooting on Regal about having to "put his ass over" or something, adding "Lord Steven Regal" at the end.

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  28. It's not too late, Tony could lead a heel WCW revival in WWE.

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  29. Tony was so under-rated. He should, with out a doubt, be in the WWE Hall of Fame. Just read this thread and look at all the classic lines, know matter how dumb some of them may be, he had. The guy is a classic. The guy called so many great matches, and he went out on his own terms. You have to respect that guy!

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  30. How long did that last, anyway? I've only seen one of his promos on youtube where he was rocking the evil goatee

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  31. No. Say what you will about Schiavone, but he never actively undermined the product the way Cole tends to do.

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  32. Yes and I can watch the fantastic Triangle Match again, I don't give a shit what Scott says about or rates it, that match fucking rules.

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  33. Bobby talks this in his book. They never really worked well together for whatever reason. I enjoyed them throughout the Nitro run together, because it was hilarious to hear how Tony would react to 'Drunk Bobby', especially at the PPV's.

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  34. You recognized him, walking through an airport? I'm surprised Kevin Nash didn't try to put the title on him in 1999.

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  35. iirc he gave it **** but im sure it can be bumped up 1/4-1/2.


    scott 2013 starrcade 1995 maybe? /zoidberg

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  36. > = better than

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  37. I wish I still had my tape of the last Nitro (and the Raw from the same night), it was one of the best Nitros they ever did. Everyone put in a full effort and there wasn't any idiotic booking.

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  38. Tony liked to say "this is the biggest world title match in history" a lot.

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  39. I liked Tenay when they'd bring him in as the lucha libre expert and even when he started go get more announcing time in 1997, he was fine. His issue is that he doesn't have a good "excited" voice and winds up sound rough whenever something big was happening and he felt the need to yell. But as the calm, straight 3rd guy in the booth who knew all the wrestlers' backgrounds and move names and such, he was fine.

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  40. I would gladly watch Raw if this happened.

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  41. For as much as people ream Schiavone, I'd gladly take him over Michael Cole every day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

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  42. Jesse's commentary went up a notch when he was talking about guys he loved. IIRC Rude, Vader, and Savage were his favorites. Jesse's commentary for Hogan-Savage at WM 5 is one for the ages.

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  43. Who downvoted this?? FIND OUT TOMORROW NIGHT ON NITRO! WE'RE OUTTA TIME!!

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  44. If there's a BoD round-up tomorrow this should win comment of the day by a mile.

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  45. I forgot who mentioned it before but Faux Tony Schiavone is the best thing on twitter. Whoever runs that thing is a genius

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  46. Still no Lance Russell...



    "and LAWWWWWWWWWWWLUUUUURRRRRR"

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  47. Unfortunately, 1998 was when I really got into wrestling, so I have very few memories of him giving a crap to draw from.

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  48. You know, I never got around to playing that game. I'll have to get on that.

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  49. Yeah, I loved that show. Kind of sad that that's what it took to get something like that out of them, though.

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  50. He had a cup of coffee in TNA. Search 'Tony Schiavone heel turn' on YouTube.

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  51. Tenay's great aT calling moves but his bug-eyed looks of indigence and annoying screams are awful. WHAT'S HE DOING IN THE IMPACT ZONE!?!?

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  52. If this post ends during the break we'll show you the tape

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  53. Yeah, I Tony could really be up and down by the late 1990s. There are times when he'd revert to his old self, calling moves, getting into the emotion of the match -- he was particularly good about remembering previous matches and the arenas and cities they took place in. Then you had him in full-shill mode, usually for the NWO or advertising the PPV you're already watching, and the typical Tony-isms. He wasn't really unbearable until the Vince Russo era though and I think some of the blame for that should fall on Russo for making the announcers sell things as shoots and such. ("IT'S NOT ON THE FORMAT SHEET FANS!"). I think the whole Mick Foley thing really turned a lot of smarks against him for good.

    Overall when you think about it though -- he had a very long career in wrestling and most of it was really good. He was fantastic with Jim Ross and Jessie Ventura in particular and he's one of the few announcers that could really get over the emotion of the match when he was on.

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  54. One of my favorite moments was Nikita Koloff hitting the Sickle on David Crockett

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  55. Yeah I have wondered the same thing. I don't know anything about his sensibilities as far as booking and such, so who knows?

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  56. Yeah, Heenan and Tony had an odd chemistry, although when they were on I thought they were great, especially in 1993/1994. I think part of the problem with Heenan was that once the NWO came around, he stopped really playing a full-blown heel announcer -- Tony and him were on the "same side" and I don't think that ever really worked out well.

    One thing I'd like to mention -- I know Tony and Bobby have some backstage heat, but I think the whole idea that it was occuring onscreen constantly is actually overstated. It's pretty obvious (to me at least) that they were going for the Gorilla/Heenan thing, but just didn't have the rapport or chemistry to pull it of as well.

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  57. Yes, in hindsight, I'd say he is right.

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  58. Yeah I loved Tenay's role in WCW. It was a perfect role for him, because he's not really an 'emotion' guy, he's at his best reeling off backgrounds, facts, and movesets. He lent a real credibility to those cruiserweight matches that I don't think Heenan and Tony would have been able to get over properly.

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  59. Yeah Bobby was a mess by 1999, especially late 1999. Check out Heenan at WCW Mayhem 99, he's in pretty bad shape and everyone just looks pretty annoyed with him haha.

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  60. You're right and I've actually seen that before. I guess I don't really count it because it wasn't for long and wasn't even as an announcer.


    But yeah, he was technically there. 2002/2003 TNA just seems like another universe.

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  61. They were great together too in Wcw as well

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  62. Another reason Lawler has LONG lost his luster in commentary. What made him great with Vince and JR was the heeling it up aspect. Once him and JR were both faces it was over with

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  63. Confusing spinebusters for sidewalk slams. Flying body attack. Back leg front kick.

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  64. "yea were a dreadful place that constantly put over your ass lord Steven regal"

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  65. Just checked out Schiavone's real Twitter, the dude has actually kept bust working Georgia Bulldog Football games, and local Atlatna Brave broadcasts. Seems like a good guy and doesn't pretend he was never a wrestling announcer, which is very cool. respect.

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  66. I think "Back leg front kick" was Bischoff, not Tony.

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  67. I can't help but think of evil Abed when I see that.

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  68. Rollie of Rat Bastards, Inc.April 20, 2013 at 9:00 PM

    Everything was a "full armdrag and twist"....even when it wasn't.

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  69. Yeah, that was Bischoff's "What a maneuver!" I think he actually was aware of people making fun of him for it, because at NWO Souled Out (I think) he makes a joke about it, saying something about other announcers call it something else, but it's known as "back leg front kick" even though as I recall the move wasn't anything resembling a kick lol

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  70. I always thought it funny to see the PPV with Tony in a tux, Heenan in a regular suit/tie and Tenay in a suit jacket with those weird ties (bolo tie??). Always good for a laugh to see them dressed so differently.

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  71. I think Tony and Bobby would have been good in better circumstances. Heenan has said he basically checked out after he offered a suggestion to Bischoff and was told he was "just an announcer" or something similar. I loved Tony calling matches with Crockett.

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  72. Spelled defense. D+E+=F E+n_S_E. THank you. GOod night.,

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  73. Yeah, I've heard that from Heenan too and if it's true, I think it was a huge mistake on Bischoff's part too. It sounds like Heenan is the kind of guy who needed to feel like his suggestions and ideas were valued. It sounds like Bischoff inadvertently turned him into a guy with more of a mindset of "I'm just gonna pick up my paycheck".



    I guess on some level, I kinda get where Bischoff was coming from, because they hired Bobby as an announcer and I'm sure they expected him to put all of his energies into that, so in a way I think Heenan is being sour grapes about it. At the same time though, you gotta know your staff and how to motivate them. Bobby probably never realized how much input he had at the WWF until he'd worked at WCW for awhile.

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  74. What's awesome is that he often responds to people Tweeting him about wrestling stuff. He's never a jerk about it either. Seems genuinely happy with how his life turned out and not ashamed that a significant portion of it was spent in the wrestling business. I know I tweeted him last year and he actually responded a day or two later, which actually resonated more than if he had responded immediately because it showed he goes through his timeline to respond back to people who contact him when he's not at his computer.

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  75. When it comes to over-shilling and dwelling on the nWo in non-nWo segments or matches, it's hard to know how much of that he did because he was being told to as opposed to him doing it on his own because he felt he should. It's part of the reason I don't give Cole as much flack as others because I think a lot of the shitty announcing is because of Vince. If you re-watch some of the early/mid-2000's Smackdowns, Cole was much better than he is now.


    By the end of 1999 until WCW's death, you could definitely tell Tony was mailing it in and his quality noticeably dropped. But even in 97 with all the hyperbole and nWo talk, he at least seemed legit motivated and interested in what he was doing. He wasn't announcing matches like a regular X's and O's play-by-play guy, but I didn't find him overtly bad and at least he didn't seem like he was going through the motions.

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  76. You can put all your energies into your main role AND offer suggestions/ideas to another, especially in something like wrestling where it's all intertwined in one way or another. When you have someone like Heenan, a HOF manager and one of the best heat machines in wrestling history, listen to him. The guy knows his shit.

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  77. Schiavone (along with Crockett, Ross and Russell) are like the voices of my childhood. I recently got all 33 Clash of the Champions and just turning them on and listening to the announcing team start hyping the matches takes me back to such a wonderful time in my life.

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  78. Schiavone has said that he interviewed for the position strictly as a formality. He had no plans or expectations of gaining the job.
    I know of only two booking moves that Schiavone ever made: he came up with the idea of the Michael Wallstreet gimmick, and his joking suggestion of putting the WCW Title on David Arquette was picked up on by Vince Russo.

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  79. Oh agreed! The "Hulk Hogan, you can go to hell! Straight to hell" line is one of the greatest announcing moments in history in my opinion.

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  80. I have most of the pre-Hogan Clashes, and do want to get them all eventually; and yes, I fully agree with this statement.

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  81. I loved the announce team of Ross and Caudle. They made every match seem like a true athletic contest.

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  82. I think (and I'm wildly speculating) that Bobby felt like Eric was disrespecting him and, in a way, disrespecting the business. Bobby was hired to be an announcer, but he had been involved in some of the biggest money making angles of all time and had been a wrestler/manager/announcer for so long, that he felt like his suggestions should be at least considered. In a business that is so steeped in paying dues and respecting older guys, etc you would think that Eric would have not dismissed him out of hand.

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  83. He was also the commentator for the XWF in late 2001, with Lawler I believe. Pretty weird sight,

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  84. Judging from the use of 'manoeuvre', it's British English and therefore correct.

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  85. Lance was great. He made Memphis and its ridiculous angles work:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZitXeX8AaEM



    This will always be funny.

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  86. Schivone was at his best when he had the mustache.

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