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Savage v Flair


---------- Forwarded message ----------

> Hey Scott, I'm watching Savage/Flair at Wrestlemania 8 right now, and just wondering.. why don't all professional wrestlers these days just quit? At their best, they're terrible compared to this, and this is smack dab in the middle of the mid card. Why don't they all just find another occupation? 

This guy gets it.

Comments

  1. I need to be able to like this entry. Times a million.

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  2. Amazing what rose colored glasses and nostalgia can do. There aren't a lot of guys today (CM Punk is probably the only one, John Cena when used properly) that can hang with Flair and Savage. But it's not like every match of that era was up to that quality either.

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  3. If you're going with the "everybody sucks today compared to the good ol' days!" argument, pick a better match than Flair/Savage.

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  4. Actually, isn't that kind of he point? Nobody really considers this match a classic like Flair/Stremboat, but nobody today could put on a match this good.

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  5. It's not Flair/Steamboat, but I think the point was more that it was incredible from an emotional perspective and most of the modern guys aren't able to connect with the fans on that type of level that Flair and Savage did. Not sure how much of it is the individual person's fault as much as the way they're trained and developed but that's a whole other issue.

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  6. I can think of about a dozen that blow Savage/Flair out of the water.

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  7. I liked this a lot better than the Steamboat/Flair Clash match.

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  8. Gary Johnson VoterApril 22, 2013 at 2:30 PM

    This was the same card that introduced Rocco, so lets not go crazy.

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  9. how about Diesel vs. Mabel? No two opponents have ever approached that weight total in the PG era.

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  10. A ton of guys from that era couldn't match Flair or Savage either. They're two of the GOATs, so what is the point of this email?

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  11. Austin-Rock at WM 17 was every bit, if not more, engaging from an emotional standpoint, and was arguably a superior match. So let's not get too nuts.

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  12. Saying you wish more guys were like Flair and Savage is like saying you wish more baseball players were like Mayes and Ruth. It's not really a fair requisition from today's wrestlers. However, grading on a curve, Savage-Flair was not the best effort these two could put out there in their heyday.

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  13. Because if everyone quits, all we'll have to watch is Savage/Flair. And I don't want to see them headline WrestleMania next year.

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  14. No idea if you're joking or not, but that is actually a way better example. It's the greatest jobber match of all time and exhibit A on why Savage is the GOAT.

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  15. On the bright side: We might finally get that Hogan/Hall world title match if everyone else quits.

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  16. While I don't think they ever had a bad match, it always seemed like they could've kicked it into another gear but for whatever reason, never did.

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  17. Did Big Daddy V and Khali ever square off?

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  18. I'd argue that Punk/Cena's MitB match can compare, which furthers your point.

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  19. Hogan has at least 4 more Wrestlemania main events in him to be fair.

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  20. But what about being fair to Flair?

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  21. On any given night Punk, Bryan, Ziggler, Austin Aries, AJ, Tanahashi and countless others can surpass this one.

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  22. ******LIVE SPOILER FROM RAW*******
    -Big E Langston Squashes Zack Ryder
    carry on.

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  23. CM Punk vs. John Cena Raw 2013.

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  24. Why are posters putting so much energy into a joke email?

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  25. Today's 12-14 year olds are going to say the same thing about Cena/Punk MitB in 15-20 years.

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  26. One of my favorite matches of all time! Love the pre and post match interviews by Flair, and holy cow what a blade job Ric!?!? (and he got caught on camera and Bret didnt so he got BITCHED by Vince rumor has it). But yeah talk about Stealing the show, and to think Savage was an announcer at WM 9!!!!!!

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  27. big show and mark henry beg to differ, sir.

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  28. I always dig it when my joke emails get posted too. Especially because I have posting ability, and there's absolutely no reason for me to bother Scott.

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  29. Then Ric told him, with tears in his eyes, that he was so sorry that he didn't hide it as well.

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  30. I was watching an old ep of Mania on 24/7 last night. They had a throwaway match b/w the Beverlies and Tito/Virgil. Gorilla and Brain were on commentary and dammit if they didn't make the match worth watching.


    To tie in with the current topic, that's what missing overall from today's WWE product: it's just not all-around FUN. I watch b/c I find things here and there that keep me interested enough. But overall, for the life of me I can't imagine what the hell would inspire some kid to get into wrestling these days. There's just not anything fun about it, broadly speaking. For the most part it takes itself way too seriously and is too far up its own ass.


    On a somewhat related note, in terms of how things are presented, does anyone else thing that the WWE roster is actually TOO big? I was watching the SD match b/w Kofi and Barrett and was thinking about when Kofi got that big push a few years ago, and it made me realize that the lack of "rocket to the ass" booking aside (although we've seen it a little with the Shield and to a lesser extent Ryback), part of the reason that no gets over is a product of 50/50 booking not b/c everyone has to look equal, but rather b/c there's too many people to really focus on. That's why the days of jobbers and no-names was good b/c the people you wanted to push got all of the attention. Now, not only does 50/50 booking ensure no one looks better than another, but it also ensures that no one will get more face time, b/c you have all these other people who need to get on TV.


    The too large roster is even more puzzling since there are umpteen hours of programming a week on TV, yet we always see the same guys just in different permutations. Remember the days when you'd have people who had some name value (or could) and you'd never see them on TV unless they earned it? So many times it was like "Oh wow, I didn't realize so-and-so worked there at that time," and you wouldn't see them unless there was a point to seeing them. These days, it's like the old battle royal or multi-person tags at WM: "use ALL the roster!" There's no incentive to do well for yourself over and above. Again, not due just to 50/50 booking where you'll be pushed a little at some point, but also b/c you'll get on TV one way or another, but you haven't really earned a (dog, liver) spot.

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  31. "This guy gets it," That complete movie encyclopedia debacle...


    Has Fuj hijacked Scott's account?

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  32. It's a slow day.

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  33. trying to make each other laugh is the only way to cope.

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  34. We were saying it as it happened. I think we all were quite aware we were watching something special.

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  35. Putting Cena/Punk even in the same sentence as Flair/Savage is a gigantic insult to their match at MITB. No Flair/Savage match comes within a 1000 miles of that match or the Raw classic this year.

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  36. This match was so awesome watching live on PPV as a kid. I was a huge, giant Savage mark but I was also at the age where I was aware that the WWF always sent fans home happy at WrestleMania, so when I saw this match was in the middle of the card I about had a heart attack. Of course it made the ending that much sweeter.

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  37. [Flair] got BITCHED by Vince rumor has it

    "Just when you're THIS close to greatness, you go and do something to fuck it up!!!"

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  38. What. that a famous match from 1992 isn't as good as a bunch of recent stuff and because of that, every wrestler should quit? O...k.

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  39. Bonesaw-Peter Parker

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  40. Bret recently did an interview where said that countless opponents have told him that he was their best match ever.

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  41. Considering some of the shit that ends up on the blog, you really going to blame me for thinking someone actually believes this?

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  42. Yeah, let's not make any new stars. That strategy has been working out great so far.

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  43. Spoiler alert: The sun rose in the morning.

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  44. How many matches have they won with it? 1? 2? Rollins' springboard knee has won as many matches. Thus far their big finish is the Triple Powerbomb.


    I doubt Undertaker kicking out of his Spear which hasn't been pushed heavily as his finish yet, will damage his drawing power. If Taker kicked out of the Triple Powerbomb that'd be a different story.

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  45. That's not a spoiler. I saw it for myself. I was avoiding spoilers but you posted spoilers which ruined the results of the one match I wanted to see on the show. Couldn't you have waited, I don't know, til you watch it to post how much you hated it?

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  46. Ok, so spoiler alert: the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

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  47. Right, because The Shield haven't gone over anyone and are constantly booked to look like incompetent cowards. Sit down, mark.

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  48. Dirty_Dave_DelaneyApril 22, 2013 at 4:03 PM

    Normally I'd be pissed to see a new finisher get kicked out of... but the Undertaker kicking out of it is an exception I'm willing to make. If it was Cena, Orton or Sheamus then yeah there's every reason to be pissed but since Taker has cemented such a legacy for himself especially as a semi-active competitor I'd say Roman Reigns being able to hit his finisher on the Deadman for a close two count benefits him more than it buries him.

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  49. They've been spinning their wheels since February.

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  50. Again that's not a spoiler because I know with relative certainty that it will happen. I get you're pissed The Shield won without pinning Undertaker but there's a whole Live Thread to talk about it as it happens rather than spoiling it here.

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  51. My whole thing is that Taker taking the fall doesn't hurt him in the least and the Shield can live off that for at least a year. So why not do it? He can't put someone over on some random Raw?

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  52. I'm more confident in Daniel Bryan doing a job than I'am of the sun rising everyday.

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  53. next time, if you could bold & italicize the word SPOILERS and put a bunch of asterisks around it, that'd be great. thanks.

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  54. Replace that with Ziggler or the US champion.

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  55. Dirty_Dave_DelaneyApril 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM

    To be fair since we don't know if this was Taker's last Raw appearance for a while, and if it is then putting the Shield over on the way out would have been an effective move to make in the long-term.

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  56. the sun shall stay where it is and the Earth will again revolve.

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  57. I would have liked Shield to powerbomb Taker into oblivion and pin him too. I assumed that's why Taker was involved, so they could pin the guy who hasn't been pinned since 2010.

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  58. Let us know about the spoiler! You're trying to bury your own Live Show thread tonight!

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  59. Shit, they might even talk about the match they had on Raw a couple weeks ago!

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  60. I could replace that with half the roster.

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  61. I'm probably only going to check out the 6man. I generally don't watch taped shows.

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  62. ****************************************************SPOILERS************************************************************ sorry

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  63. I'm still cracking up that your calling Reign's Spear "The Hottest Finish in Pro Wrestling." Over the years I've seen plenty of spears and his does not even come close to Goldberg's. I will give this to him, he might be as dangerous as Goldberg in the ring, we dont have quite a read on him yet because he hasnt worked any singles matches for the E and who watches NXT?

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  64. You will definately find a way to sneak in 200 comments on the thread somehow, just like this thread.

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  65. I was trying to sneak in 200 comments in this thread?

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  66. Speak for yourself, I've already seen enough. Nobody since Brock Lesnar has had this much potential.

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  67. Really? I didn't ever realize Reigns HAD a finisher, so your statement is pretty ludicrous.

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  68. How many Shield matches have you seen?

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  69. Technically, all I knew is that Taker kicked out of the Spear (or I assumed it was the Triple Powerbomb). I didn't know the Shield won the match until you said something.

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  70. You also have spoiled more than cultstatus.

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  71. Regardless, they've beaten the combined forces of Taker, the tag champs, Sheamus, Randy Orton, Big Show, Ryback, and John Cena.


    I'd say they're doing okay.

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  72. Dirty_Dave_DelaneyApril 22, 2013 at 5:06 PM

    I'd definitely say Roman Reigns has a Batista-like quality to him as the cool badass enforcer of the group who knows how to pick his moments in a match and seize them effectively. When they choose to finally dissolve the Shield which I hope isn't for a long time I can see Roman Reigns being the initial breakout star of the group.

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  73. Hey, I'm sure Flair could get a *** match out of Savage's corpse.

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  74. Today's 12-14 year olds are going to be wondering why they watched that stupid shit.

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  75. If anything, I made it seem like Shield lost.

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  76. Again, I'm not in the entertainment business, but who honestly thought that giving the Road Warriors a fucking ventriloquist dummy was a good idea?


    I mean, if drugs were involved in the idea, then okay, it's excusable.

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  77. They have, in the Monster Mash Battle Royal also involving Mark Henry and Kane.

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  78. Sorry if that annoyed you but I figured the spoiler warning on his post applies to the rest of that thread.

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  79. That's funny, I was just watching a Nitro from July 99 thinking Flair and Savage should just quit.

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  80. Taker didn't hug Bryan, that I found more offensive than anything.


    Embrace the LOVE!

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  81. I've always wondered what the backstory behind that was, it's one of the most phenomenally stupid ideas ever. Vince was really losing his golden touch at that point.

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  82. Oh no! Not that, anything but that!

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  83. I think it depends on what exactly the emailer meant. I took it as, "look at how Flair and Savage got so many people emotionally invested into their match. The fans just don't genuinely love/hate guys like that anymore." And if that's the case, Flair/Savage is a great example. But if the person just happened to think it was a great match and that modern wrestlers can't work matches as well as that one, then yeah, plenty of better examples than Flair/Savage.


    Ultimately we're both nitpicking and not really talking about the main point which was (I think) that 2013 WWE largely sucks.

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  84. You're rebel without a brayin! Good work with that. More important that baby boy cry about the wrestling show before it aired. Everybody has been informed of your butt hurt. Living on the edge! Dipshit.

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  85. Punk/ cena > flair/steamboat

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  86. I remember every Savage / Flair match besides the first being awful but by god you've convinced me to give em another try.

    Also, was it ever really confirmed what happened during the September 92 rematch where Vince allegedly stopped the match and made them start over?

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  87. No, CM Punk couldn't hang with Flair and Savage., And Cena flat-out can't.

    And that's not a knock on either. No-one today can hang with 92 Flair and 92 Savage. Those two were on absolute, end of fire. Wrestllemania 92 didn't even have a storyline, and it got nuclear heat because it had two of the best wrestlers ever going at it, which was enough.

    Man, it's not nostalgia. Flair and Savage (like Steamboat, Piper, Dibiase, Perfect, Hart, Sting... and yes, Hogan) were part of a generation that was implausible in how many brilliant wrestlers it utilised. If anyone of them showed up today, they'd be main event within a year. Heck, just compare Warrior to Ryback - Warrior blew the roof off an arena running to the ring, got gassed out completely, and still got pops Ryback can dream of.

    Flair at the 1992 Rumble is, flat-out, better than anything 99% of wrestlers can hope to achieve. Including Punk.

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  88. That's the difference between Hart and Flair. Hart was worried he'd be fined or fired if he admitted it, Flair didn't give a fuck. I kinda respect Flair more for not hiding it - it's the ultimate 'I'm an icon' move. And, probably, earned Vince's respect ten fold.

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  89. You should keep drinking, you'll be a BOD Legend in no time.

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  90. How'd you downvote that?

    God, I love wrestling fans. They think everything is subjective. Well, somethings are fact. Like Ric Flair and Randy Savage being so good they could get mega-over in any era of wrestling.

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