Scott,
Rumor has it (evidently) that Chris Jericho and/or Daniel Bryan are going to turn heel at Payback. Curious as to what your thoughts are on turning the absolute hottest face in the company now, right on the verge of mega stardom. Just because it worked with the Rock doesn't mean it will work here. Does the crowd bite, just because they actually care about the character? Do they cheer anyway? Whattya think?
Keep up the good work.
Andy
ericho turning heel would be kind of a nothing move for him, and turning Bryan would be suicidally stupid for them. Although he had ostensibly been a heel for most of the Hell No run and that didn't stop him from getting over as a babyface anyway.
You know what they should do with Bryan? Have him win the MITB briefcase to prove himself, and then challenge Cena at the end of the show and win that too, as the ultimate way of showing he's not the weak link. Cena can squash Ryback in shockingly fast fashion to allow them to have a long match, too, just to really stack the odds against D-Bry.
"You know what they should do with Bryan? Have him win the MITB briefcase to prove himself, and then challenge Cena at the end of the show and win that too, as the ultimate way of showing he's not the weak link. Cena can squash Ryback in shockingly fast fashion to allow them to have a long match, too, just to really stack the odds against D-Bry."
ReplyDeleteDamn you and your awesome Magical Christmasland scenarios that will never happen, even though they should!
Bryan should win the Rumble. He can win that and they can book him as wanting to redeem himself for losing to Sheamus in 18 seconds at WM 28.
ReplyDeleteNah, Bryan needs to stay face and win!
ReplyDeleteTurning Ryback heel for a two month feud was the stupidest move lately. He was getting himself over. Fans were chanting "Feed me more!". Now he's heel and jobbing three straight PPV's again and with him being heel, he has nowhere to go. Logic would've been to have had Ryback feud with Ziggler for the WHC. Cena could've wrestled Roman Reigns or Dean Ambrose at Extreme Rules/Payback. Now they are stuck with Ryback as a heel that no one cares about, Shield dipping into the losing ways of the WWE midcard and Cena that hasn't improved with the fans at all.
ReplyDeleteOnto Bryan, if they turn him heel my jaw will drop. WWE would serve better to have Orton cost Bryan the Summerslam match against Cena thus turning Orton heel. Orton vs. Bryan feud through the Fall. Cena can move onto a feud with Punk or something. Hell, even throw Lesnar into a feud with Cena. Lesnar destroying Cena at Survivor Series in under 5 minutes to win the WWE title would be great. Cena then chases Lesnar for a couple months before Lesnar vs. Cena III at Mania XXX.
Ziggler could lose the WHC to Bryan and then be moved into the feud with Orton and Bryan as the "tweener". Ziggler vs. Bryan vs. Orton feud for the WHC would be pretty good.
I actually think Daniel needs to win the title with a bit of a chase first. Winning at Summerslam would be better than Money in the bank, though they need to have a heel champion.
ReplyDeleteI would actually switch it: Have the heel win Money in the Bank, beat Cena after the Bryan match ends in a draw or DQ or something, beat Cena after a beatdown, and then let Bryan chase them to Summerslam.
CM Punk or Brock Lesnar would be perfect for this...
Turning either heel would be stupid. Bryan's the hottest act in the company right now, and Jericho gets probably the second loudest pops of anyone these days. In short, the fans don't WANT to boo either of those guys right now.
ReplyDeleteIf they need a new heel, they should just double down on Punk.
ReplyDeleteI think Punk is done as a heel for now. He'll leave Heyman and have bouts wit Axel and Lesnar.
ReplyDeleteCurt Axel = NO BUYS.
ReplyDeleteI don't know much, but I would bet hard currency that Punk isn't going to feud with Axel.
ReplyDeleteSince when is what the fans want a consideration for WWE?
ReplyDeleteHis southern heel schtick hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire. If he really is "best in the world" he can prove himself as a great face, like his hero Austin did. All the adults cheer him anyway.
ReplyDeleteGood point.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Ryback was getting over, but what's the end game for him? Obviously they don't see a bright future with him, otherwise they would've replaced him with Mark Henry in that slot.
ReplyDeleteAlways thought Ryback turning heel was to get the most out of him now, before fans turned apathetic towards him. Kinda like Scott Steiner in 2003.
Would never happen?
ReplyDeleteThey've done extremely similar storylines with Cena jobbing to CM Punk and RVD. I'm not saying what Scott is suggesting will happen, but it wouldn't be shocking considering that'd make it the third time they've done it with Cena.
Of course they are going to turn Bryan heel. Nobody is above HHH or Cena.
ReplyDeletePraying they actually do what Scott says.
ReplyDeleteRight, remember when they didn't turn Punk face back in 2011?
ReplyDeleteJericho and d bry are easily the most over faces in the wwe. Easily. So of course now that hhh is back on TV they both have to turn. Makes sense to me
ReplyDeleteIts so frustrating because if they really need anything its top level faces that are over as FACES with the whole crowd. They could push Bryan and put Jericho in main event programs and achieve that or I guess they could just turn them heel and push hhh and have cena do heel promos as the only top face
ReplyDeletejesus h fucking christ spoiler space
ReplyDeleteAnd seriously, if ryback was gonna do the big turn and have a angle with cena would it have killed Vince to put him over markhenry? I don't get jobbing a guy (he laid for punk and shield too) then turning him heel with a babyface explanation and jobbing him more.
ReplyDelete"rise above' dont apply to them
ReplyDeletewhens mitb, not till july right. dunno if we want ryback-cena to go till then
ReplyDeleteWere these rumors on newz sites!?!?
ReplyDeleteI was going to say the same thing, then remembered that MITB is the next PPV, and WWE loves their series of threes when it comes to the main event.
ReplyDeleteThose jobs led to the heel turn and him seeing "the light" so to speak.
ReplyDeleteI called this a while ago. Have him basically pull the Michaels '05 winking eye heel turn for 2 months to fight cena they put on 2 moty canidate classics, and at the end he wins the second match and said he needed to do this to prove hes not the weakest link, and give a Rocky in Russia style speach bam! mega babyface Champ who will always have the odds stacked against him bc of his size. Plus he will still get mega pops against Cena anyway. Its win win imho.
ReplyDeletefor some reason i was thinkin we were still in may would have to suffer this ppv and then another before mitb. but mitb is next.
ReplyDeletei upvoted this just because you're willing to put your money where your mouth is
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing....CAN they really turn Bryan heel at this point? As Scott pointed out, he was technically a heel for most of 2012 but the fans still cheered for him. If Bryan 'goes heel' by attacking Cena or Orton, guess what, those guys aren't exactly beloved by the entire fanbase.
ReplyDeleteJericho is on record as saying that he prefers to be a heel, yet given his unique career structure, it's very difficult for him to maintain this status. Every returning star will get the proverbial 'welcome back' pop, so with Jericho coming and going so frequently, he'll have to work twice as hard to re-establish himself as a heel every time.
Plus, as others have noted, fans WANT to root for Chris Jericho. The guy hasn't been a face since 2008 and, while he played the heel role so tremendous from 2008-10, there's just so much pent-up love and respect for the guy that I'm not sure fans will buy into a short-lived heel turn again.
If they do turn Bryan heel, I'm genuinely curious what the logic is for doing it now. They have to recognize the response he's getting and what they have on their hands with him, and how huge he can be as a top-tier babyface. What's the thought process that leads creative to say, "we've gotta turn him'?
ReplyDelete"What's the thought process that leads creative to say, "we've gotta turn him'?"
ReplyDeleteHe's getting bigger pops than COOHHH and Jwaaaaaaaaannnn Ceeeeeenaaaaaaa!
Rumours aren't spoilers.
ReplyDeleteIf they turn him heel, the cheers will only get louder. I said it before: Bryan is at an "Eddie in 2003" level right now.
ReplyDeletebut soylent green *is* people
ReplyDeleteHave we wanted it to go this long?
ReplyDeleteThe thinking behind turning Bryan heel now may be nothing more than, "We drew up the plan to turn him months ago. We can't change things on the fly!" To me it seems obvious that Orton should be the one turning heel from the Kane-Bryan-Orton trio, but for all we know, Bryan's heel turn is leading to a big Bryan-HHH feud where HHH puts the goat over. And then the Internet will surely rejoice.
ReplyDeleteNow, can they successfully turn Bryan heel? Of course. Just have him cut promos in every city bashing the local sports teams and insulting the fans and they'll turn on him. Follow the Kurt Angle model.
I wouldn't turn Jericho heel but I don't think it really matters much.
ReplyDeleteJust like they turned on CM Punk.
ReplyDeleteOh wait, they were STILL cheering him as he was pouring ashes on the Undertaker.
He can't be a heel. What quality has he got that would make the paying fan hate him? He can be fed any line he wants, but people have to buy into it. It's easy to make heels for an inspiring guy like Bryan to face - feed him guys who mock him due to his size and have Bryan beat them. There are plenty of those hanging around.
ReplyDeleteNo, but they turned Punk heel in mid-2012 for a feud that wasn't happening until January 2013.
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't think he should be a heel right now, saying he can't be a heel is wrong. He was a tremendous heel while World Heavwyeight champion.
ReplyDeleteWell remember when Triple H pinned him while he had his hot streak for no apparent reason?
ReplyDeleteHe can be a heel by the "story" they tell, but he's not going to be a heel with the audience. That's the point. So, I say, let them do it and let it fail miserably, like it did with Punk.
ReplyDeleteAnd Bryan is over like crazy EVERYWHERE.
I think you're missing the point. There is a difference between saying someone can't be a heel and saying the audience won't accept them as a heel.
ReplyDeleteI'm not missing the point at all. He can be a heel, but if no one boos him, is he really a heel?
ReplyDeleteHe can play the biggest shitheel in the history of the world (although it would be tough to top Punk), but he's not going to get a heel reaction. Thus, he's not really a heel. The dumbasses that try to write him as one are.
Just like they were cheering Punk when he did the rope walk at WrestleMania? But you're right, since nobody except for several thousand people bought into Punk as a heel, they should never try to turn any more crowd favorites into heels.
ReplyDeleteMy words WWE REALLY are like Microsoft interms of decision making. Reality is DB will turn heel and lose to Cena if rumors are correct over the last month or so. They will just about sacrifice anything for that kiddie pandering twat. If Cena really has a lot of pull backstage he'd veto this idea and ask to put over DB clean for the title. The amount of guys who have been damaged over the years in the namesake of making Cena look like a God is sickening.
ReplyDeleteIt is very reflective of the Eddie situation, what are WWE thinking!?
ReplyDeleteI'll admit it's kinda dumb.
ReplyDeleteBut as long as he keeps working matches like he has, I couldn't care less about his character/motivation.
HHH being on TV is the most bizarre thing I done ever seen.
ReplyDeleteJericho? Uh, no.
ReplyDeleteI want to see Jericho turn heel .I think its a great idea .Have him work with Heyman .How can any fan not love that .
ReplyDeleteThat would be quite interesting, to promote a match, only to have it go 5-6 minutes, have someone cash in an mitb match and make that a good 20 minute main event.
ReplyDeleteTurn Jericho heel and have him injure Brock and use that explain Brock being MIA and have Jericho spend the next couple of months being a holy terror, feuding with Cena and basically with Heyman as his henchman and creating so much hell that Brock comes back and brutalize Jericho for the pay-off to the feud.
ReplyDeleteAlso, do Bryan vs Orton with the plot point being that Orton kicks Kane in the head (after Kane runs in to save Bryan from suffering said fate) and incapacitates him and Bryan seeks revenge against him. Kane can stand to look weak and it would strengthen the pair's friendship for Kane to take several kicks to the head to save Bryan from said fate and Bryan going on a roaring rampage of revenge to avenge Kane.
If someone has to be sacrificed to Cena, I'd rather it be Jericho.
ReplyDeleteYeah, because Chris Jericho of all people fits the henchman character to a T.
ReplyDeletePretty sure we are going to see a Jericho/Punk double turn.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather see him jobbing to Cena then someone like Fandango.
ReplyDeleteRe-read my post stupid.
ReplyDeleteHeyman becomes a henchman, Jericho is the main guy.
Punk's alliance with Heyman is chucked in the memory hole and never mentioned again. Axel gets jetisoned ASAP. Stuff I should have mentioned but I assumed would be understood.
Turning Bryan right now would be idiotic, which is why it will probably happen (unfortunately).
ReplyDeleteJericho will be the defacto heel Sunday night anyway. Going forward, Heyman could turn on Punk by siding with Jericho. It could be revealed that Heyman wanted revenge on Punk for walking out on him weeks ago, and used Jericho to draw him out. This would also set up the rumored matches with Axel and Lesnar down the line.
It's really so simple...
Sorry. I was so dazzled by the stupid that I misread it.
ReplyDeleteLol
ReplyDeleteLOL at Jericho injuring Brock Lesnar. How? Brock trips over him after giving him an F5?
ReplyDeleteI can totally see them turning Bryan into a whiny heel. They probably thought Orton would get a big babyface pop for RKO'ing Daniel on Smackdown last week.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of Bryan winning the briefcase next month, then coming out the next night and laying it in the ring to cash in for SummerSlam. No cheesedick cash-in after a Cena match, just a "fuck it, I'll prove I'm not a weak link" and challenge Cena for SummerSlam, ala RVD doing it before One Night Stand '06. Then have Bryan win clean-ish to really cement him
ReplyDeleteFuck yeah. Great comparison.
ReplyDeleteA return to Evolution rich prick heel Randy Orton would be a fresh match-up for new WWE Champion Daniel Bryan.
ReplyDeleteIt's not really Cena's fault, though. It's WWE's inability to make ANYBODY else look good. There are a lot of guys that would've been just fine looking strong and building credibility to face Cena, only to lose, and to continue looking strong and building credibility afterwards. But instead, everybody flounders and goes into oblivion. The fact that Randy Orton -- who I don't like, but was most definitely #2 for quite some time -- hasn't done anything of substance in something like 2 years is very telling.
ReplyDeleteI always thought that gimmick suited him better than whatever the hell he is suppose to be now.
ReplyDeleteHe uses the ring stairs perhaps.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't agree more. Orton is strong in that role.
ReplyDeleteWhich, personally, I thought was the right decision. Punk had really found his groove as a heel by the time the Rock feud hit. If he had turned heel right before their match and we had to go through that nonsense with the announcers talking about how Punk never earned their respect, the story would've suffered.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, as a face he lost every single big match that he was in. I still don't see the logic of jobbing him out to Mark Henry.
ReplyDeleteI assume if Jericho's turning heel it would be some kind of a swerve involving Heyman? A heel turn could be a good move for him. He has more to offer than what he's doing now. Maybe a heel turn would give him one last serious run instead of the guy who bats .500 against Fandango.
ReplyDeleteI feel like a mark when people say that, because I thought he was doing amazing stuff as a heel.
ReplyDeleteHahahaha
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying they've never done anything this stupid but I don't see....uhh...what happens on Friday happening if they're gonna turn him on Sunday. It'd be a collossal waste. Again, they've done worse, but I'm just sayin.
ReplyDeleteWith it being basically a foregone conclusion that they're turning Punk face, it does leave a crowd as far as uppercard faces. I think both Orton and Jericho turn. Then you have Cena, Punk, and Bryan as top faces and Orton, Jericho, and Ryback as top heels, with your Sheamuses and Henrys mixed in as needed. Of course, you gotta question the wisdom of turning that many people at one time; it's positively Russovian.
Honestly, I've always been a big proponent of spacing out big heel turns. If you turn both Orton and Jericho, the crowd will be burnt out by the time the second turn happens (whoever it is). I can definitely see Jericho trolling Chi-town by saying he knew Punk wasn't able to wrestle, worked a deal with Heyman, and did this to prove to Punk's hometown how much of a coward the man really is. I'm pretty sure that would cause a near riot, but in a good way. I think Orton and Bryan have some kind of miscommunication but I don't think either guy turns that night. The crowd will cheer whatever Bryan does, even if it's a heel turn. They know that. If Jericho doesn't turn, then I see Orton turning. If it's just a miscommunication, then Bryan's turning in front of a less smarky crowd in hopes that the crowd will react how WWE wants (spoiler: they won't).
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't Jericho just F5 Brock into the ringpost while he's at it
ReplyDeleteConversely, have a match billed where Cena's facing some midcard scrub like Fandango. Cena enters first, then Fandago, because fuck proper entrances. Before the match can start, Bryan comes out and kicks Fandango's head off, demands his match right then and there, and boom thirty minute RAW main event.
ReplyDeleteHe can't be a heel for the simple fact that the crowd keeps turning him face.
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm all for Randy Orton freshening up his character, I'm not looking forward to the return of the Chinlock Kid in the ring. He's a better worker if a face, if only because of his comeback sequence.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I don't really care about them turning him heel. It won't take. The crowd is going to refuse to go along with it, even if he starts punting babies in to the crowd like Snitsky.
ReplyDeleteI think he's infinitely better as a heel than as the face, but most of the crowds want to cheer for him, so he kind of has to go face at this point. It's a lot like Austin's heel run in 2001, really.
ReplyDeleteit was a story nobody wanted to sit through
ReplyDeleteWhat does that do though? Jericho's entire point is to enhance talent, he's big enough with fans that losing to people doesn't hurt him...it helps others, brock lesnars point is that he's a monster, a big antagonist that people pay to see him beat the crap out of others then get justice served later on. Turning brock face does nothing....neither does turning Jericho heel to go against Lesnar. Neither of them really benefit.
ReplyDeleteYeah I think Ryback is heading for that weird spot in the card that Sheamus and Orton is in. Do plenty of upper midcard feuds, only thing is...they've both been blessed with multiple title reigns, while Ryback likely won't, especially if they are locking up the summer with Daniel Bryan and Cena. I've always thought he would flourish on smackdown, if their plan really is to have Smackdown centered on Punk, having Ryback as the monster champion while having Punk chase him down for it..isn't a bad way to go.
ReplyDeleteWhy...it sounds like you're implying that creative might have something for someone.....I must wonder whether he would have to pay $5 for his ticket though.......small price to pay for someone who respects the art of wrestling so much........boom boom.
ReplyDeleteI agree they've done stupider (strictly speaking face/heel, heel/face turns) but I can't think of any off hand. I'd say Austin at WM but I give them credit for being ahead of the curve and trying to freshen up Austin, it was just the execution that sucked. What do you think was a stupider turn then the upcoming theoretical Bryan turn?
ReplyDeleteThat would be awesome.
ReplyDeleteVince: "Hey, kid. We finally have something for you! But you still have to buy a god damned ticket."
You just needed Punk as a tweener against the Rock, all the same stuff could have happened in his feud with Rock. It's the ridiculous stuff they had him do against Cena and Ryback that didn't need to happen.
ReplyDeleteThere's zero point to turning Jericho heel. He's not even sticking around for Summerslam this year; after MITB and maybe the post-MITB RAW it'll be back to Fozzy for tours of Europe and then the good 'ol USA stretching into October. And the fans don't want to boo Jericho anyway. (I think they're really outassuming themselves when they outright say on TV that Jericho will be booed on Sunday just because it's Chicago; I frankly think it's FAR more more likely both him and Punk get cheered equally on Sunday.) Book the damn World title ladder match you wanted to book at Extreme Rules before Dolph had his concussion, put Jericho in Swagger's spot to make the match that much better, then cart Jericho off on a stretcher after Dolph wins the match to get Jericho written out by a better means than the usual "fired after losing a match" and put Dolph over huge. That accomplishes far more than turning Jericho would.
ReplyDeleteTurning Bryan heel would be like driving a convoy of Brinks trucks full of cash into the mouth of an active volcano.
Regarding Bryan and I can't believe I'm saying this, but in all the 10 years of constant Kane heel turns, this is the one time where a Kane heel turn would make sense. If the rumors are true about Bryan being next in line for a shot against Cena, a mini feud against Kane wouldn't hurt either.
ReplyDeleteTurning Jericho in Chicago is a mistake. That crowd WILL NOT boo that man whatsoever. Unless a double turn is in the works with him and Punk, either put it off or preferably don't do it at all.