First off, what shocks me is that when people talk about the greater villains of TV, Shillinger never comes up. He's probably the worst villain in history. I was pissed at how he died. I wanted something so much worse for him, and his friend, Robson, I believe his name is. They were such vile motherfuckers. I also didn't get how they hated Gay folks, yet they were all about raping dudes. It made no sense.
I was also pissed that Ryan O'Riley never got his due. He was responsible for so many deaths, especially in the first season, and he never paid a one of them.
I thought Vern killing Toby's kid was too far fetched. I mean, if he'd really done that, Toby wouldn't have just gone on like nothing happened.
I liked the relationship between Toby & Keller, as it was damn original and really well written. Although, I find it odd that Toby was just like "oh yeah, I have sex with guys now"
Robson definitely got a ruthless comeuppance. Getting black dude gums and ruthless butt fuckings from that Wolfgang dude. And did they ever explain why he left all his shit to alvarez?
I thought the last 2 seasons were decent. Not as great as the first 4, but still solid. They did throw in a lot of things that were out of left field, and never addressed much. Such as Jericho, or Cyril seeing a smooth version of himself that walked around. The spiritual possession angle. Why Cutler left all his shit to Alvarez. The guy who killed Said. I mean, he killed him because of something he said to him years ago, in Europe?
One of my all-time favorite shows. The first four seasons were phenomenal but then it kinda went off the rails. The final season's 'kill a main character every episode' thing was especially annoying. I did like the final showdowns between Beecher, Keller and Shillinger.
Also, it made zero sense for Gloria to fall for Ryan after all the crap he put her through. Still, great, great show.
Caliber, its a GREAT GREAT show with season 1-2 being epic. Even though it falls off a little in the latter seasons its still a great watch. Love all the random people who end up being on the show, luke perry, treach, Rick fox, etc. Whos your favorite character? Mine was Adebisi, probably the biggest badass character ever.
One last thing...how fucking depressing is the end where Beecher ends up going back to jail? He's one of the few characters who was on through the entirety if the show and after being screwed over by his lover, and being the Aryan bitch for the first two seasons he was one of the few real sympathetic characters. That ending scene where the show him on the bus going back to Oz was soooo depressing.
I know. The first episode about his parole, with the dream, and the one where he actually gets his parole I kept thinking "They're gonna kill him. They're gonna fucking kill him.". But no, it's worse! Couldn't they just let the fucking guy go?
I was so glad Treach was killed. I loathed him. I was also super stoked when Kenny and his friends were shot. I hate bullies, and they deserved every bullet.
The oddest guest was Peter Criss, from KISS.
My favorite character was either Bob, or Busmalis. I think that's how you spell it. They were both really interesting. They should have done more with Bob talking to God and such, that was really cool. And Busmalis was cool with his constant tunnel digging, and thinking every episode of Sally was the best one yet.
It's been years since I've seen it so youre probably right. I remembered it as a shot of the incoming inmates after he got pinched for whatever it was he was set up for by his lover. Didnt he end up going back to jail tho?
Yeah, after he got Keller off of death row, Keller asked him to give some drugs to one of Keller's ex-wives. Toby was hesitant at first, but agreed. Then Keller called it in, and Toby was arrested. Then Chris killed all the Nazis by sending in a toxic chemical and they had to evacuate the place. That's why you see everyone on a bus at the end.
Robson's "spooning" scene in the final season remains the most horrifying thing I've ever seen on any TV show. The implied pain and guttural scream that comes from him... eurgh. Though if any character was going to receive such a thing, it shoulda been him, given he was the deliverer of the 2nd grossest moment in that show, slowly slicing one of the Muslim guys for an extended period.
It's pretty commonly agreed that the show peaked midway through season four and probably should've ended there. It still had it's moments but things got a bit silly and by season six it was well and truly passed it's use-by date. Still, Schillinger, Ryan, Beecher, Keller and Adebisi remain some of the best characters in television history, so a couple of dud seasons doesn't tarnish it's legacy too much. Very few hours of television can match the Riot episode/s.
Yea, remember the Keller stuff. It's been years but when Beecher gets popped for delivering the drugs, and the show him on the bus is he going back to Oz or back in jail? If not ill have a while new outlook on the end of the show.
I never quite understood how Beecher went from straight dude on the outside to super gay in prison. I mean, this dude started blowing and screwing some of everybody.
Oh man, that's why I wanted Robson to die from something like having his skin peeled off or something. Watching him laugh while he sliced up that poor kid was disgusting. It was a real joy to see him get his due from Cutler, and then get HIV.
That was one of my beefs with the show. He was straight, and then Keller is all "I'll get him to love me", while I'm thinking "How is that possible, he's straight?". Then before we know it he's blowing & fucking everyone. Odd.
It was weird but I thought it for his character. He was immediately portrayed as weak and fragile through his interactions with The Aryans. After years of torture he was so weak that Keller eventually "broke him down" and gave him the affection he needed. Would have only worked with Beechers character IMO tho. Do it with OReilly or anybody else and its a ludicrous storyline
One of the things that really helped set the show apart, and make it great was Hill's narration. Then once he died, I thought it was pretty brilliant they had former characters that had died do narration for an episode.
The show was notorious for being "out there" and you just had to go along for the ride sometimes, but with Beecher it's sort of explainable. First, he was raped (repeatedly, we are left to assume) by Schillinger, so that had an effect on his psyche and probably got him past the whole sexual aspect of a gay relationship.
Second, Beecher wasn't a hardened criminal on the outside. Up until his incarceration, he was a member of a large, loving family. He was constantly surrounded by love and wasn't familiar with hatred, anger and certainly not violence, being from a upper class family, attending private schools and living in the suburbs. So when all of these things impacted him immediately, he was left wanting love so bad that he turned to another man, like many others do in prison.
Thanks to Keller's diabolical attempts at fucking with Beecher over the years, he was left not even knowing what love was anymore, and he even said that to Sister Pete later on in the show. But I imagine it helped that Beecher became psychologically disturbed as the show went on, and some of it could have just been Keller's manipulation.
Beecher: "I took a shit into a man's mouth." Pete: "I know." Beecher: "That's not normal." Pete: "I know."
Yeah, Oz was one of my favorite shows during much of it's run, but the ridiculous body count was maybe the biggest factor in keeping it off my list of all time greats. I remember one scene after Warden Ghostbuster was murdered and on the topic of who will be new warden one of the characters tells McManus that "Oz needs a strong hand." Which I assume she was going to follow up with "......So, do you know anyone like that?"
At its best, a truly great show and it's a shame that when all the successes of HBO are listed - it is usually forgotten. The first 3 seasons are superb.
Yeah, except there's an orgasm. Also, there's not always rape. Like when they protect a guy in exchange for sex. If you're just chilling, letting a guy blow you, a good portion of it is about wanting to get blown by a dude. I mean, it's just as humiliating making them dress like a girl, wear make-up, do your laundry, and lick your boots.
First off, what shocks me is that when people talk about the greater villains of TV, Shillinger never comes up. He's probably the worst villain in history. I was pissed at how he died. I wanted something so much worse for him, and his friend, Robson, I believe his name is. They were such vile motherfuckers. I also didn't get how they hated Gay folks, yet they were all about raping dudes. It made no sense.
ReplyDeleteI was also pissed that Ryan O'Riley never got his due. He was responsible for so many deaths, especially in the first season, and he never paid a one of them.
I thought Vern killing Toby's kid was too far fetched. I mean, if he'd really done that, Toby wouldn't have just gone on like nothing happened.
I liked the relationship between Toby & Keller, as it was damn original and really well written. Although, I find it odd that Toby was just like "oh yeah, I have sex with guys now"
When I think Oz, I think Kevin Nash. Where can I buy the Three Faces of Nash DVD (Oz, Vinnie Vegas and Diesel)?
ReplyDeleteGreat show that fell apart half way through. Pretty much once they killed adabesi the show fell off. Age serum...magic puppets...everyone dying c'mon
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding? O'Riley was awesome! I liked the symmetry about the nurse finally kissing him as his brother was being put to death.
ReplyDeleteI do agree though that the Toby/Keller relationship was interesting and Shillinger should have gotten way worse.
Robson definitely got a ruthless comeuppance. Getting black dude gums and ruthless butt fuckings from that Wolfgang dude. And did they ever explain why he left all his shit to alvarez?
ReplyDeletehaha, yeah, that was cool. I was glad the dentist got away unscathed too.
ReplyDeleteNo, they never did explain it, which was funny & odd at the same time.
Is it me, or is Omar White one of the most obnoxious characters ever?
I'd like to see a series about Bob & Agnon, or whatever his name was. They were interesting as hell.
well it was wrapping up and most of the leads got network shows and movie deals so... they got the turk.
ReplyDeleteO'Riley was such a prick. He completely ruined his brother's life. I mean, asking him to kill the nurse's husband? That's some pretty low shit.
ReplyDeleteZanadude...
ReplyDeleteI apologize.
I thought the last 2 seasons were decent. Not as great as the first 4, but still solid. They did throw in a lot of things that were out of left field, and never addressed much. Such as Jericho, or Cyril seeing a smooth version of himself that walked around. The spiritual possession angle. Why Cutler left all his shit to Alvarez. The guy who killed Said. I mean, he killed him because of something he said to him years ago, in Europe?
ReplyDeleteOne of my all-time favorite shows. The first four seasons were phenomenal but then it kinda went off the rails. The final season's 'kill a main character every episode' thing was especially annoying. I did like the final showdowns between Beecher, Keller and Shillinger.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it made zero sense for Gloria to fall for Ryan after all the crap he put her through. Still, great, great show.
Caliber, its a GREAT GREAT show with season 1-2 being epic. Even though it falls off a little in the latter seasons its still a great watch. Love all the random people who end up being on the show, luke perry, treach, Rick fox, etc. Whos your favorite character? Mine was Adebisi, probably the biggest badass character ever.
ReplyDeletePoor Alvarez. I wish the show would come back just so he could get his redemption.
ReplyDeleteOne last thing...how fucking depressing is the end where Beecher ends up going back to jail? He's one of the few characters who was on through the entirety if the show and after being screwed over by his lover, and being the Aryan bitch for the first two seasons he was one of the few real sympathetic characters. That ending scene where the show him on the bus going back to Oz was soooo depressing.
ReplyDeleteHuh?
ReplyDeleteI know. The first episode about his parole, with the dream, and the one where he actually gets his parole I kept thinking "They're gonna kill him. They're gonna fucking kill him.". But no, it's worse! Couldn't they just let the fucking guy go?
ReplyDeleteMinor quibble, he's not going back to Oz. The bus is leaving Oz because they had to empty the prison after Keller's package was opened.
ReplyDeleteI was so glad Treach was killed. I loathed him. I was also super stoked when Kenny and his friends were shot. I hate bullies, and they deserved every bullet.
ReplyDeleteThe oddest guest was Peter Criss, from KISS.
My favorite character was either Bob, or Busmalis. I think that's how you spell it. They were both really interesting. They should have done more with Bob talking to God and such, that was really cool. And Busmalis was cool with his constant tunnel digging, and thinking every episode of Sally was the best one yet.
I really wish Torquemada had a longer run on the show. He had a weird, Goldust-ish vibe about him.
ReplyDeleteIt's been years since I've seen it so youre probably right. I remembered it as a shot of the incoming inmates after he got pinched for whatever it was he was set up for by his lover. Didnt he end up going back to jail tho?
ReplyDelete"Is it me, or is Omar White one of the most obnoxious characters ever?"
ReplyDeleteChrist, I HATED Omar White.
Yeah, after he got Keller off of death row, Keller asked him to give some drugs to one of Keller's ex-wives. Toby was hesitant at first, but agreed. Then Keller called it in, and Toby was arrested. Then Chris killed all the Nazis by sending in a toxic chemical and they had to evacuate the place. That's why you see everyone on a bus at the end.
ReplyDeleteRobson's "spooning" scene in the final season remains the most horrifying thing I've ever seen on any TV show. The implied pain and guttural scream that comes from him... eurgh. Though if any character was going to receive such a thing, it shoulda been him, given he was the deliverer of the 2nd grossest moment in that show, slowly slicing one of the Muslim guys for an extended period.
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty commonly agreed that the show peaked midway through season four and probably should've ended there. It still had it's moments but things got a bit silly and by season six it was well and truly passed it's use-by date. Still, Schillinger, Ryan, Beecher, Keller and Adebisi remain some of the best characters in television history, so a couple of dud seasons doesn't tarnish it's legacy too much. Very few hours of television can match the Riot episode/s.
Yea, remember the Keller stuff. It's been years but when Beecher gets popped for delivering the drugs, and the show him on the bus is he going back to Oz or back in jail? If not ill have a while new outlook on the end of the show.
ReplyDeleteHe was essentially playing the same character as Eddie from Five Heartbreaks.
ReplyDeleteI never quite understood how Beecher went from straight dude on the outside to super gay in prison. I mean, this dude started blowing and screwing some of everybody.
ReplyDeleteOh man, that's why I wanted Robson to die from something like having his skin peeled off or something. Watching him laugh while he sliced up that poor kid was disgusting. It was a real joy to see him get his due from Cutler, and then get HIV.
ReplyDeleteThat was one of my beefs with the show. He was straight, and then Keller is all "I'll get him to love me", while I'm thinking "How is that possible, he's straight?". Then before we know it he's blowing & fucking everyone. Odd.
ReplyDeleteIt was weird but I thought it for his character. He was immediately portrayed as weak and fragile through his interactions with The Aryans. After years of torture he was so weak that Keller eventually "broke him down" and gave him the affection he needed. Would have only worked with Beechers character IMO tho. Do it with OReilly or anybody else and its a ludicrous storyline
ReplyDeleteI hated Burr Reading. Got to get Augustus off those tits.
ReplyDeleteI loved how Burr talked out of the side of his mouth.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that really helped set the show apart, and make it great was Hill's narration. Then once he died, I thought it was pretty brilliant they had former characters that had died do narration for an episode.
ReplyDeleteI was afraid of Burr Redding and he was a 60 year old man who lived inside my tv.
ReplyDeleteI loved the empty chair the episode he died.
ReplyDeleteThe show was notorious for being "out there" and you just had to go along for the ride sometimes, but with Beecher it's sort of explainable. First, he was raped (repeatedly, we are left to assume) by Schillinger, so that had an effect on his psyche and probably got him past the whole sexual aspect of a gay relationship.
ReplyDeleteSecond, Beecher wasn't a hardened criminal on the outside. Up until his incarceration, he was a member of a large, loving family. He was constantly surrounded by love and wasn't familiar with hatred, anger and certainly not violence, being from a upper class family, attending private schools and living in the suburbs. So when all of these things impacted him immediately, he was left wanting love so bad that he turned to another man, like many others do in prison.
Thanks to Keller's diabolical attempts at fucking with Beecher over the years, he was left not even knowing what love was anymore, and he even said that to Sister Pete later on in the show. But I imagine it helped that Beecher became psychologically disturbed as the show went on, and some of it could have just been Keller's manipulation.
Beecher: "I took a shit into a man's mouth."
Pete: "I know."
Beecher: "That's not normal."
Pete: "I know."
Yeah, Oz was one of my favorite shows during much of it's run, but the ridiculous body count was maybe the biggest factor in keeping it off my list of all time greats. I remember one scene after Warden Ghostbuster was murdered and on the topic of who will be new warden one of the characters tells McManus that "Oz needs a strong hand."
ReplyDeleteWhich I assume she was going to follow up with "......So, do you know anyone like that?"
At its best, a truly great show and it's a shame that when all the successes of HBO are listed - it is usually forgotten. The first 3 seasons are superb.
ReplyDeleteRaping guys in prison is often not about sexuality. It's about power, and letting them know that you can get to them whenever you want.
ReplyDeleteYeah, except there's an orgasm. Also, there's not always rape. Like when they protect a guy in exchange for sex. If you're just chilling, letting a guy blow you, a good portion of it is about wanting to get blown by a dude. I mean, it's just as humiliating making them dress like a girl, wear make-up, do your laundry, and lick your boots.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen the show.
ReplyDeleteBut I love The Wiz. It takes place in Oz.
Has everyone seen this? Funniest skit in SNL history.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18kvo_seinfeld-in-oz_people
Seinfeld should be on SNL every year. His episodes were some of the best.
ReplyDelete