I know you have shot down "Montreal work" conspiracies and I agree with you that what happened was real (Vince changing the finish) but I one question concerning it:
In storyline terms it did make sense for Vince to come out and screw Bret as from late 1996 and on WWF was making it known Vince was the owner (Showing him on camera breathe a sigh of relief when Bret said he was staying rather than go to WCW)
And in 1997 Bret shoved Vince after the cage match on Raw leading up to WM13 and later on that summer they got into a scuffle at the announcers table when Owen and Bulldog had to hold Bret back.
Even if Bret had stayed, it seemed like they were setting up Vince for some kind of retribution against either or both Bret Hart & Steve Austin. They were the only two wrestlers ever shown getting physical with Vince.
It seems like Vince had been dropping hints at the Mr. Mcmahon character for about a year prior and Montreal was just the perfect time for him to turn into the evil authority figure. Is that fair to say?
up, it just happened to be one of the greatest happenstances in wrestling, absolutely. One of the latest Observers has a whole story on amazing timing and luck just like that one, although clearly Montreal worked out to be the biggest bit of luck like that, maybe ever.
You could see the Mr. McMahon character coming a mile away during the Austin broken neck angle.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think he was planning on being "Evil Mr. McMahon" for quite awhile. He even did a dry-run in Memphis.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_1cW-1xZc
QUESTION FOR THE PEEPS:
ReplyDeleteVince mcmahon: genius or simply has a huge shoehorn up his butt for luck?
Like, what if Cyndi lauper didnt wanna do rock n wrestling?
Or andre didnt wanna turn heel or was dead (real dead, not fake dead like when Hogan wrestled him at wm iii)?
release rumors aside, what if stephanie never heard cena rap, and we never got the character that people fell in love with that eventually became the character people hate?
You could argue that a genius knows when to seize opportunities by the GRAPEFRUITS, but i really think vince is just plain lucky a lot of the time.
Case in point: nothing spectactular ever happened with bret during his mega face push in the mid-90's. i think that's cuase vince didnt luck into anything, and that was defintely a low point for WWF business (didnt say it wasn't good). same thing with the last few years since peple started hatin superthuglife. i'm willing to bet the punk stuff somehow came about by accident and not anything vince saw and built upon and if he did it was only after the fact
hell, even the ecw revival was purely luck fr vince cause RVD was tokin' with him and was like "dude, let's do ecw for a night' if rvd's dealer hadnt gotten him his stash that night vince might never have seen the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from WWECW
Luck is where opportunity meets preparation. Like Stephen Bradbury gliding across the line to claim gold after the four racers in front of him collapsed, he wouldn't have been in a position to make something of those opportunities without all of the work that only he could have done.
ReplyDeletei love bradbury cream eggs
ReplyDeleteThe 'McMahon is a genius' talk gets WAY too much play, in my opinion. Workaholic? Absolutely. Willing to take chances? Like no one else.
ReplyDeleteBut recognizing talent? Maximizing value? Knowing his audience? He's no better or worse than a number of promoters who had some FANTASTIC ideas and also had some bad habits (Dusty, Bill Watts, Paul E).
The guy doesn't have the Midas Touch. He's a promoter blessed with vast resources and a ruthless demeanor who loves to take a home run swing.
"The guy doesn't have the Midas Touch. He's a promoter blessed with vast resources and a ruthless demeanor who loves to take a home run swing."
ReplyDeleteThis
I think it was something he had in his back pocket for when he had a white-hot face to feud with a white-hot heel. Was there anyone before Austin who would have justified a foil as awesome as heel Vince?
ReplyDeleteGenius? Hell no, just the (intentional, probably) botching of the Invasion knocks him out of the genius category. not to mention all the other dumb shit he's done over the years. The man is one hell of a businessman though.
ReplyDeleteHe needed Hogan
ReplyDeleteAnd let's all just get over Montreal already.
ReplyDeleteHe needed Hogan
ReplyDeleteIf Nash hadn't left in 96 maybe Diesel would have been on one side or the other of that scenario.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he's the creative genius he's made out to be. With books and shoots these days you find out the backstory in creating characters/angles and it seems like the wrestlers themselves came up with the best stuff. Scott Hall was supposed to be a GI Joe character but pitched the Razor character. Foley was supposed to be that ridiculous mutilator character and pitched Mankind - the name, the symbols, the separate entrance music, the mandible claw...Austin created Stone Cold...Russo created a lot of characters and storyline ideas. A lot of Rock's stuff was developed between him and Russo. The Clique were pushing for the attitude era years before Vince allowed it. I'm sure a lot of Vince's ideas have worked to, but for a while there it was portrayed that he came up with everything.
ReplyDeleteI think his biggest attribute is his, umm, balls. Wrestling was popular in the territories. It doesn't take a genius to figure out there was money to be made if you essentially owned ALL of the territories by going national with the top stars from all of them. I'm sure others have thought about it but nobody else had the balls to go all in and do it. On the flip side he's stubborn so whenever he thinks something is great he'll shove it down your through and out your ass then back up your ass and out of your mouth, but give him something that works and he knows how to promote it.
Diesel's last feud with Shawn exposed Vince as the owner, I think. I don't know if they specifically said it but it was portrayed as Diesel fucking with him and we all know why.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I can see that. Taking some of the risks he did took a LOT of guts, and would have been disastrous if they'd failed.
ReplyDeleteVincent had brilliant timing in his prime. And he also had the capacity to take risks.
ReplyDeleteVince is the master of the wrestling universe, shame on you all for underrating him and talking so much shit.
ReplyDeleteThe night after he lost the belt to Bret, Nash cut a promo saying he was tired of smiling and being a corporate puppet and called out Vince. Seemed to be setting up an anti-hero role similar to what Austin became.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how many times he's done that in the mirror.
ReplyDeleteI think Vince is a business genius, not necessarily a creative one. My perception is that he's become incredibly conservative creatively in equal measure because of the economy (why take a risk creatively that might backfire in a crappy economy when you're making a profit?) and going public (lots more people to answer to). Vince often picks good people creatively and he has the ability (well, in the past moreso) of saying, "I'm wrong".
ReplyDeleteMight have worked for Nash & WWF too. Although he did just fine for himself with the nWo angle, obviously
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