I'll be reviewing Payback for those who are waiting for one. I should
have it up by tomorrow. And to those who want to finally have something
worth putting on your resume by having your question seen here, simply
send it on in to caliberw@hotmail.com.
Today's question comes from member pbreathing, he asks...
"How do you justify following pro-wrestling to non-fans? We've all had to put up with critics/sceptics telling you "It's all fake, you know" or "Really? The guys in the spandex?", but what about people who are indifferent/oblivious and just don't see the attraction?
Today's question comes from member pbreathing, he asks...
"How do you justify following pro-wrestling to non-fans? We've all had to put up with critics/sceptics telling you "It's all fake, you know" or "Really? The guys in the spandex?", but what about people who are indifferent/oblivious and just don't see the attraction?
I know a popular line of argument is "it's just like
watching a soap opera", but I've never used that, purely because the
acting is terrible and the storylines are often insulting. I say two
things; one, I'm impressed with the athleticism/technique of certain
'workrate' guys (similar to ballet or street-dance fans, I guess) and
two, it's like watching sports and waiting for your team to get the big
win, but because it's all pre-determined those fairytale moments are
more guaranteed.
Another big reason for me watching as a smart fan is
to analyse the writing/pushes etc from a business POV, but that's a
tough one to explain to an outsider."
Good question. To explain the draw of wrestling to a non-believer can be a bit tough, simply because people tend to be stupid. They think that because the out-comes are pre-determined that it eliminates any entertainment. Even though every movie & TV show's outcome is decided well in advance. Besides the obvious answer of what we see on TV being entertaining, for a lot of wrestling fans half of the fandom comes from staying up to date with the backstage going-ons. I find that often times that can be just as interesting. Really, nothing else offers up entertainment both in front of and behind the curtain.
How say you?
"Another big reason for me watching as a smart fan is to analyse the writing/pushes etc from a business POV, but that's a tough one to explain to an outsider."
ReplyDeleteI actually think this one could be easier to explain...you can look at it in the same way as football, basketball, etc. As we get older, we root for the team but also play armchair coach, GM, etc. We follow the behind the scenes stuff, analyze play calling, draft picks, free agent signings, etc.
You can say you were a fan growing up, now you are still a fan but enjoy watching and looking at the business and production side of things as well.
It's like gymnastics and figure skating: a unique way to tell a story in an athletic way - but with a bit more improv.
ReplyDeletePopular entertainment right now is quite possibly at an all-time nadir as far as being remotely intellectual or edifying, so I have to justify how "highbrow" wrestling as compared to reality television, Michael Bay movies, or popular music a la somebody like Nicki Minaj. In many ways, watching wrestling is more like justifying watching opera than soap opera: its an incredibly entertaining and comprehensive art form to those who invest the time to understand it. Except when it involves 3MB.
ReplyDeleteYou know, I've never once had a problem with this? To me it really feels like just another nerdy thing like comics, videogames, Game of Thrones, fantasy football or regular football for that matter. I don't begrudge people that watch 2 Broke Girls even though I think it's trite because I feel like we've all moved past that as a nation.
ReplyDeleteI got my girlfriend into it by virtue of the athleticism.
(She likes Seth Rollins due to how good he makes others look and she likes Kane because how careful he is with the people he wrestles. I would have a hard time objecting to those choices.)
She despises the treatment of women on the show mostly because she feels the writing is incredibly lazy and they all sort of suck as actors. ("The WWE has money, right?" she asked, "Why can't they just hire some actual hot actresses? They don't wrestle anyway and it would be better than watching a hack try and cry.")
I tell them it basically runs my life by telling me to B*A Star, support Make A Wish, shows me how to order pizza and milkshakes and how to navigate an IPhone app.
ReplyDeleteA lot of what's been said applies. I also love nothing more than when I genuinely have NO clue who's going to win a marque match. Sometimes it might not even occur til part way through a match, and sometimes after a moment passes, you realize that wrestler x will win, but those few seconds of doubt are awesome.
ReplyDeleteTo me this is often conveyed in terms of a hot near-fall, and one of my favorites ever was HBK's second super kick to Taker at Wrestlemania 25. Several other near falls and finisher near falls had happened, and the match had gone enough time that for a few seconds I thought "HOLY SHIT, the streak is over!" That suspense and drama I can find nowhere else, and is a big part of the reason that I'm a fan.
Got hooked on it when I was young, now I'm just sticking around to see how it ends.
ReplyDeleteHHH was in Vince's ear long before Steph was in the picture. Just saying.
ReplyDeleteI just deny that it's predetermined or choreographed.
ReplyDeleteLarry Zbyszko earned his spot!
ReplyDeleteSimple:
ReplyDeleteYou don't explain. They either get it, or they dont.
Couldn't just go with the joke?
ReplyDeleteWell put.
ReplyDeleteMy response: Same reason you watch the Kardashians and all those shitty competition reality shows.
ReplyDeleteQuestioner: I don't watch those!
Me: You know, it's amazing, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people watch those shows on E! and MTV and whatever the fuck channel...yet nobody ever admits it. So who are these millions of people? At least I ADMIT to watching shitty TV on a regular basis.
I had a similar run-in to the one Eric describes a few months back:
ReplyDeleteRoommate's friend: You know wrestling is fake, right?
Me: Do you think those are real dragons on Game of Thrones?
RF: ... I guess I never thought of it like that.
To anyone that says, "It's fake" I usually say "So is The Avengers".
ReplyDeleteIf the conversation continues I explain the difference between being worked and fake. You'd be surprised how many people think it is totally planned out down to each punch and that none of the moves hurt.
A single chop should teach them otherwise.
ReplyDeleteI act like im pissed they ruined the secret for me. Then go tell their 8 year old that santa claus is a work.
ReplyDeletethis.
ReplyDeleteI have mentioned this before in the "girlfriend" thread. mrs. spicollidriver LOVES the twilight saga, I think it's "sort of okay" at best. I just don't get why she is that crazy about.
but no matter what she does, I will very likely never "get" it. and that's okay.
your girlfriend = smart.
ReplyDelete[obvious sex joke]
ReplyDeleteI'm just a fan of men rolling around in spandex.
ReplyDeletethat's why I love the dean ambrose video that has been posted several times on this blog.
ReplyDeletewe know it's stupid, goofy etc. - but in a way to us it's not a reason against but FOR loving wrestling.
"MY GAWD...and there's probably some yahoo sitting at home in front of his TV saying 'those guys just know how to fall rightl.' HOW DO YOU LEARN TO FALL OFF A 20 FT. LADDER ONTO CONCRETE?!"
ReplyDelete"That steel cage does NOT taste like chocolate"
ReplyDeleteSame!
ReplyDeleteI show them three angles:
ReplyDeleteSteiner-Rotundo from 88
HBK-Undertaker from WM 25
nWo from 96 (because they'd have to be pretty dense not to have heard of Hulk Hogan).
Then I drop the mike and hit them with a Diamond Cutter.
I just say it's a show like everything else people watch. We know Keanu Reeves and Hugo Weaving aren't actually fighting, but is that going to stop someone from watching The Matrix? Add that to the interactive atmosphere with the fans (how many shows allow such an influence over their story and characters?) and backstage politics and wrestling is just a different beast. No one really gives me a hard time about wrestling, though.
ReplyDeleteI actually once wrote an essay for a course comparing it to Shakespearean plays at the Globe and how pro wrestling shares a lot of characteristics to the live performances that were put on there.
/begin 1990's individuality speech
ReplyDeleteI don't justify following pro wrestling to anyone. Justifying anything you like is a pointless exercise. Just love what you love. Be you.
/end 1990's individuality speech
But seriously, there's no need to justify it. If you have to justify it, you suck as a human being.
I just say it's a lot like Figure Skating where the enjoyment comes from watching people perform unexpected and death-defying acts of athleticism within the context of a 'fight'.
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't get is people who are so intentionally obtuse that they don't understand why ANYONE would like it.
ReplyDeleteI tell people that we don't consume it the way we do sports, and it's not cheering for someone to win and someone else to lose, exactly. It's more like the way I consume, say, Sons of Anarchy or Breaking Bad. Except it's kind of like the way we consume sports also, because of the live crowd and how it's presented on TV. And then it has its own unique quality in the connection we forge with wrestlers as fans that isn't quite like anything TV dramas or sports really offers the same way. We don't cheer for wins and losses for our guy, but what they represent: we cheer for the character to win or lose but it's really an expression of how we feel about the performer portraying that character, and our desire to see him succeed and move up the card.
The tl;dr version I give people: we all watch something we know isn't award-winning and critically acclaimed. But most of them- a Jersey Shore here, all reality TV there- are always ridiculous, whereas pro wrestling provides truly spectacular stuff every once in a great while. And that's why we watch.
Yknow, I was just thinking, like literally just before I clicked on this, that I've carried around the weight of a lifetime of self-hate for watching wrestling, based on a ver brief couple of years when I was a kid and it was uncool. And it really isn't necessary. I know tons of people that watch wrestling, or at the very least have at one time. My best friend loves it, most of the rest of my closest friends either love it or at least used to be into it, I've hooked up with girls who like it, I've probably had at least one co-worker at every job I've ever had who's into it and currently have several that are, and every wrestling show I go to I see tons of people I know. So why do I still stress about what people who don't like it think? At this point they are literally the minority in my life.
ReplyDeleteAnd really, what's not to like? Specific storylines and time periods, yeah. But you've got: crazy larger than life characters with their own backstories and histories like comic books. Athleticism and exciting wins, losses, and strategies like sports. Crazy action and ongoing stories like regular tv dramas. And improvisation and unique personal character work like theater or sketch comedy. As a genre, it's so unique that no matter
The thing that bugs me the most is people who condescendingly act like they don't understand how you can watch it since it's "fake", but who eat up "reality shows" and really truly believe they're legit. I like to think it's pretty much common knowledge that those shows (Survivor, Bachelor, Big Brother, etc) are as fake as pro wrestling, yet it doesn't seem to hinder those people's enjoyment.
ReplyDeleteI had a co-worker whose family business was the focus of a reality show last year and she told me how they script *everything*. Like there's literally a script and everything. All the arguments, confrontations, reconciliations. Not to mention the heavy, heavy editing.
....
ReplyDelete*is on pins and needles for the conclusion of A Very Special Murph Post*
Something was really goin haywire on my phone at that point, plus I was supposed to be working. Basically I was saying that its so unique it doesn't matter what they do, its just a form of entertainment that I enjoy as a whole, moreso than just a show.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. Nothing else provides me entertainment on as many levels as pro wrestling.
ReplyDeletePro wrestling and reality tv function pretty much exactly the same.
ReplyDeleteI always simply say "so is X" when the 'you know its fake right' speech comes along. and make the comparison between reality TV sometimes.
ReplyDeleteThe appeal of it is pretty simple to explain, it simulates the competitiveness of sports and is also very theatrical, so you get engaging characters and gripping drama (when done right), with the odd detour into comedy. It is the basic story of the hero and the villain told in a format that almost anyone can understand what is going on, no matter who they are.
You can also increase people's respect for the business by explaining how a match is actually put together, things like blading and so on.