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QOTD - June 7th, 2013

CulturebUlly sent this in for the QOTD, and it's a damn good one.

"You're challenged with trying to turn someone into a pro wrestling fan. You can show them one match/angle. Which do you choose?"

 I think I'd go with Orton vs Foley from 2004. It's a damn great story, and the blow off from Backlash just so happens to be my all time favorite match. I think it'd be a great story to introduce someone to, because you're clamoring to see Mick shut him up, however he doesn't seem so sure of himself. Then the match at Backlash is such a spectacle, and so fantastic that there's no way a person couldn't enjoy it. It's the right amount of brutal, and doesn't reach the idiotic levels of something like CZW.

Comments

  1. its a question thats been asked numerous times...


    Is there anything left in the bottom of the barrel to scrape?

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  2. Steamboat/Savage every time. Duh.

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  3. When does the Stone Cold/Bret Hart feud end? Does it end at Revenge of Taker or Canadian Stampede?

    I'd probably go Austin vs.Bret which includes the US/Canada stuff. Not only does it include classic matches but most people can relate to national pride.

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  4. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJune 7, 2013 at 8:14 AM

    Mega-Powers.

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  5. I'll go with a newer entry and say start with the CM Punk pipebomb speech, then the contract signing and the Money in the Bank match with Cena.

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  6. The entire Nikita/Dusty/Magnum saga

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  7. Also, maybe not something that will turn a non-fan into a fan but whenever I show the Mulkey Brothers upsetting The Gladiators to a non-fan they laugh their ass off. From their jobbertastic mullets to the Mulkey's "golly gee whiz we just won" post-match interview and then the Gladiator's cliche 80's ranting and pointing at the camera interview and David Crockett's mocking of them, it's all just comedy gold.

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  8. Hogan-Warrior from Halloween Havoc 98 or the Tower of Doom Cage match from Uncensored 96. Maybe Heroes of Wrestling.



    Wait....................I think I read the question wrong.

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  9. Honestly, if you werent a fan of wrestling growing up, I dont see how you can turn into a fan when you become an adult.

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  10. HHH/Foley from 2000. No explanation needed.

    Runner-up: Cena/Kane from 2012, because I want them to get used to the disappointment that is inherent in pro wrestling.

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  11. Undertaker/Michaels Hell in a Cell, Angle/Benoit from Royal Rumble 2003, or the Michinoku Pro 6-man tag from ECW Barely Legal.

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  12. Savage/Warrior from '91 leading to WrestleMania VII. Simple, yet effective storytelling, the winner and loser both get elevated, and the feel-good ending of a lifetime.

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  13. Austin/Dude Love from Over the Edge '98, starting with the pre-match video.

    Watched that with a couple of friends who had casually seen some WWF back in the early 90s, weren't really fans but decided to humor me and watch the PPV with me. By the end of the night they were cheering when Undertaker chokeslammed Brisco and Patterson through the tables.

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  14. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJune 7, 2013 at 8:50 AM

    Hey now....Personally I got hooked on wrestling because of the angle where IRS destroyed Tatanka's Indian feathers because he didn't pay taxes on them.

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  15. Ole being kicked out of the Horsemen. A grizzled dad finally figuring out what matters in life. If someone can't get on board there, they're just not interested.

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  16. See... match quality isn't something that's going to hook a non fan... the story is what hooks them. The best half hour of wrestling was Warrior/Savage at WM7 and all the aftermath... that's the match.

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  17. Speaking from experience, I had drifted away from wrestling almost completely after WM6, as it had become too cartoonish (plus I had discovered girls and other sports), but Austin/Hart from WM 13 almost single-handedly pulled me back in. Watched it in a buddy's dorm room on accident, as they had a de-scrambler amd I just happened to catch it as we were flipping channels. It captivated everyone in the room.

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  18. Probably give any number of Foley matches a shot if their into insanity(Or Shane/Angle. I find that one works great). Punk/Cena at Mitb is a great way to show how stories can be told. Also, I've noticed Undertaker usually works too,the entrance is hard to not be impressed with.

    It's hard to make fans out of people, but it's easy to pick matches that change their perspective on it.

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  19. Wow. We could be here all month.


    The Patterson-Brisco Hardcore Evening Gown angle.
    Katie Vick.
    Dog drinking out of the toilet.


    I'll stop. I don't want to depress myself further.

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  20. Any of the Austin Main event brawls, with the weeks of RAW leading to it, are great choices.

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  21. This


    You cannot fail to be enterrtained by that match whether you like wrestling or not

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  22. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJune 7, 2013 at 8:53 AM

    The only problem was that the best payoff of that story was Randy and Liz getting back together, which was a story 3 years in the making. Don't get me wrong the match and payoff were AMAZING, one of the best ever, but would a casual fan stick around that long, especially considering that Elizabeth really wasn't there that much.

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  23. Steiner and the Varsity Club. That works on the underdog level, as well as the "guys who aren't really friends b/c they keep picking on me" level.


    Something from the past 10 years? Eddie/Angle and HHH/Benoit/HBK angles from WM XX.

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  24. Doubt you'd turn a non-fan using technical wrestling like Benoit/Angle RR03
    I'd probably go with a spotfest like TLC II

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  25. I was considering WMXX... but damn, that one probably would backfire spectacularly...

    "Why did you show me a murderer/druggie?"

    (Remember, these are NON-FANS. All they might know about Benoit is "He killed his wife and child." And Eddie gets "He died from years of drug abuse." Unless you absolutely blow them away, which is possible, they won't want to discover the full story behind those two. Although in Benoit's case, even a full story wouldn't help.)

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  26. I think the best way to get someone into wrestling is with a really good, Southern style tag match. People always get sucked in by the drama of the guy playing Ricky Morton and the outrage from all the false tags and heel cheats will win anyone who enjoys good storytelling. By the time the hot tag gets made they'll be on the edge of their seats.

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  27. If he'd gotten the Repo Man to steal the feathers back for him, I'd have become a fan THAT INSTANT.

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  28. I get where you're coming from and I think it's a non-issue. I think the question assumes the person being introduced to pro wrestling is watching the match with a fan, in which case the fan could VERY quickly summarize who Liz is when they show her in the crowd at the beginning of the match. That's what makes it so great...simple = effective.

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  29. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJune 7, 2013 at 9:08 AM

    That's....that's actually pretty deep by pro wrestling standards.

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  30. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJune 7, 2013 at 9:09 AM

    Good point, assuming you also explain who Sherri is. The fact that the match was awesome doesn't hurt either.

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  31. You could legit look at almost any sports game now and pick out someone benefitting from a streetcorner pharmacist or something nefarious, unfortunately.


    But up until then, you could tell them two guys who were thought as not being good enough to make it, two underdogs sharing the stage at the biggest event of the year - it's hard not to like that, even if you can't dispute how their lives turned out.

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  32. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJune 7, 2013 at 9:11 AM

    If you really want to go deeper with it, Flair, the guy who kicked him out, got himself fired because he made his kid a priority.

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  33. Not a bad idea. In that vein, the Zbyszko/Anderson vs. Rhodes/Steamboat tag title match from 1992 (or so) would be a good choice.

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  34. And you figure he was one of the first Horsemen.


    Also from that era, I'd choose the Lane/Eaton MX against, well, anybody. Their matches with the RnR's don't need angle explanations, though feel free to put up some jobber matches where Corny speaks at 130mph.

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  35. Lane/Eaton vs. Southern Boys, GAB 1990.

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  36. Trying to turn someone into a fan TODAY... hmmm, that's a tough one.

    WWE: Ziggler cashes in on Raw. Start from the end of Del Rio/Swagger, and let them see the crowd EXPLODE for Ziggler's music/title win. Alternate: UT/Shawn at WM 26. Not as good match-wise as 25, but the angle/promos are better. If they can get into either of those, there's hope for the "lesser" stuff. (Not counting others' answers, of course.)

    TNA: Only thing coming to mind is Bully's A&8 explanation. One of the greatest ret-cons ever, even if the follow-up's been questionable at best.

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  37. Bang. That's how you make a fan.

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  38. Savage-Steamboat from WrestleMania III. Show the video package that explains the match, then watch a non-fan in awe as they exchange like 20 two-counts, Savage goes back to the ring bell, then Steamboat hooks him out of nowhere.

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  39. I'd go Bully/Joseph Park. The storyline was great, and both guys sold their parts tremendously.

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  40. True...if the fan is showing them the whole angle, the Royal Rumble makes it pretty evident who Sherri is.

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  41. I keep forgetting to send him the link, but I wanna send my friend who doesn't watch that Ambrose/Moxley promo compilation video, just to see if the character is as interesting to someone with no stakes in seeing him succeed. Most of them are just character stuff anyway. I think he'll dig it.

    As for a match, i'd go with something spotty and fun but with an intrinsic storyline anyone could grasp without backstory. Maybe the Undertaker/Jeff Hardy ladder match from Raw that one time, or maybe the Hardy/Edge TLc match with the first Punk turn.

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  42. UT/Hardy came during Scott's "UT SUCKS DONKEY DICK!" period, but I still love that match/angle.

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  43. Hell, most things with Joseph Park would probably be intriguing to a non-fan.

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  44. On the few occasions that my wife (a complete non-fan) has watched with me she has dug pretty much any Flair promo from any of his various DVD's -- And while my dad wasn't a fan at all he certainly didn't disapprove of my love for it and he dug Flair -- Same with a few non-fan friends that tolerated it long enough to appreciate Flair's awesomeness -- Problem is they could hardly give a shit less about the matches; they just wanted to see him talk...

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  45. I'd show them Austin-Rock from Backlash 99, WM 17. Taker-Mankind matches, DDP-Savage, Austin-Hart from WM 13, Vader-Sting, HHH-Rock from backlash 2000.

    Of course I will show them things that only I have copies of.

    Such as Tommy Rich vs Buzz Sawyer in the Last Battle of Atlanta, The Rio De Janeiro I.C. Title Tournament, Sid Vicious winning the W.C.W. title in 93, Bret Hart vs Steve Austin from Wrestlemania XIV, and several of Ultimate Warrior's amateur wrestling matches from Parts Unknown High School in Parts Unknown.

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  46. I'd like a copy of the last one... does Warrior shake the mat? The ref? His coach? His teammates? Random spectators?

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  47. He wears the headgear and the face paint and tassels and the singlet he used to wear in 92. He's run to the mat and shakes like he would the ropes. I think I have one where he faces off against Giant Gonzales. Meltzer would love to see it, let me tell you.

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  48. RatedRSuperstar1331June 7, 2013 at 9:35 AM

    I've actually done this. I showed non-fans matches like Austin-Rock from WrestleMania X-7, Undertaker-Mankind from KOTR '98, TLC I and II and Cena-Punk from MITB '11. None of them worked. The match that did?

    Vince McMahon vs. Stephanie McMahon from No Mercy 2003. They wanted to see Vince get his comeuppance so bad and were completely into the story being told. All I could do is sit back and say, "really?" But the people I showed it to were absolutely invested in what was going on, more so than any spectacular display of athleticism or five-star match. Drove me crazy then and it still does now, but to each their own.

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  49. Easy.
    Austin/Bret Raw, the whole ambulance stuff.
    Also, CM Punk vs John Cena build up to Money in the Bank
    and Team Hell No/Ryback vs The Shield, at TLC

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  50. I've found that Tajiri/Corino from "Hardcore Heaven, 2000" usually does the trick - like others have said, most non-fans are going to want to see an interesting story and a crazy/bloody brawl, not a 5* technical classic, and there's not much better than watching Tajiri kick the racist Corino into a bloody pulp.

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  51. My ex-wife and my new girlfriend would beg to differ. All it takes is one dynamic character (Michaels, The Rock, etc), and before you know it, they are watching wrestling DVD marathons and buying cute little shirts from ShopZone

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  52. Okay, it took time to "convert" them, but I've already detailed the process in other posts and am too lazy to type it out again. Bottom line is that it is possible to take an adult who never watched wrestling and still foster fandom.

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  53. Have you shown the the McMahon/Lita match from RAW? That runs along those lines.

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  54. RatedRSuperstar1331June 7, 2013 at 9:57 AM

    I haven't. Never really thought to. But I could definitely see that working.

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  55. McMahon/Austin.

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  56. The Awesonme/Tanaka series or the RVD/Lynn series. I had a lot of those matches on VHS in high school, all my non-wrestling fans were blown away by how violent & crazy they were.

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  57. my first wrestling vhs I got was Over the Edge 98.



    I love that main event to this day.

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  58. Sid/HBK from SurSer, Taker/HBK from Badd Blood, Hogan/Warrior or Savage Warrior.
    What wouldn't I show them? Hart/HBK Iron Man.

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  59. I would show them Booker/HHH from WM19. That way they can see what happens when the racist wins.

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  60. You know, I'm in the minority but I always had a soft spot for Sid. I thought he looked imposing as hell, his stuff looked like it hurt, and I thought he could keep up his end of a match.

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  61. Are the wrestling fans or just fans of the people whose merchandise they buy?

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  62. I'll go with the cop-out answer of "it depends"

    For one person who thought that wrestling was slugs like Hogan trudging around the ring (and having no interest in storylines), I recently showed him the ladder match from PWG's Threemendous III and the XXX/AMW cage match, and he was blown away.

    For a friend who saw wrestling back in the late 70s/early 80s and assumed that it was still a bunch of slow-moving guys that we were really supposed to believe wanted to hurt each other, I showed a few more exciting matches (Joe/AJ/Daniels)

    For kids, I'm finding that Chikara is a blast.

    The hurdle I seem to find the most is that people won't get past the "it's wrasslin" thing, and seem determined to "disprove it". I get past that with the logic of "You can watch a movie/show about zombies or guys with powers running around in tights and suspend disbelief... but can't suspend disbelief on 'Guy A hates Guy B and they're trying to hurt each other'?"

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  63. He's vastly underrated.

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  64. There's a hoss bias in wrestling. I'm not saying there haven't been big guys who suuuuuuuuuuucked but Vader, Sid, Mark Henry recently, and Big Show recently have been better than they're given credit for.

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  65. Well, at least you found the "antidote" to un-fan those annoying wrestling fans. Add those and the Cole/Lawler crap to a horrible weekend, and at the end of it, you'll be cured of your love of wrestling.

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  66. Or Shane Vince from WMX7?

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  67. Honestly, though, I think there's something inside that keeps you/me/the people here as fans. I think anyone can get involved in some feuds, but at the same time, I think that most fans will drop it like they would any other show if it starts to get dull/stupid.


    Only morons like us stick around through all of the dull/bad times just because we know that when it's good, it's REALLY good. (Think about it, would you stay around for years watching a TV show that started out hot but went crappy just on the hope that something cool will happen for a few weeks during Season 7/9/11?)

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  68. haha. the EXACT same thing happened within my group of friends (all of as being teenagers at the time). most of them had watched the WWF in 1992, 1993 or 1994 - but not since.

    they were totally amazed by how wrestling has "changed". they actually didn't even "get" the Austin/McMahon angle, thought it was "clearly not fake" and were convinced that I was the one not "getting" it - for believing that it was just a storyline. lol.

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  69. Not to mention that Savage has some face recognition outside of professional wrestling fans. "Oh yea. That's the Slim Jim guy." Plus, it has a relatively easy to follow storyline with a plucky underdog, a clear "bad guy" who's so good at it that you can't help but respect him, and the complex relationship between Elizabeth and Savage. This +1000.

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  70. I'm only trying to help.


    Maybe we need a Mabel vs Great Khali 90 minute iron man dog collar match going at the speed of 0.5 mph to really help my choices.

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  71. Your_Favourite_AssholeJune 7, 2013 at 11:07 AM

    Melina vs. Alicia Fox. when you have a match that makes someone wanna join tuff enuff, you know youve got a wiener

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  72. Your_Favourite_AssholeJune 7, 2013 at 11:07 AM

    'I'm finding that Chikara is a blast.'


    what the hell was with that closing angle where the show was stopped and everyone was fired and some fan smashed through a glass door he was so mad

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  73. I love the match they had at Superstars where Steamboat gets CLOBBERED.

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  74. You know what I would show them, just so they can see how stupid/fun wrestling can be?

    YOSHIHIKO vs. Kota Ibushi.

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  75. Nobody really knows.

    Seems to be a work where we're either getting a "corrupt leader shuts down the company for not doing what they want" or a "comic book reboot"

    Assuming this was a work (and I can't imagine that the company is actually shutting down in such a strange manner), it's one hell of one.

    The fan was just nuts.

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  76. http://www.rspwfaq.net/2012/09/introducing-someone-to-pro-wrestling.html

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  77. To echo many others, there is no way you should show a hardcore match to get a non-fan in to wrestling. That would turn so many of them off so quickly it's not even funny.

    You really need a good story that people can relate to in order to make them watch the match. For that reason, my top nomination would be Bret-Owen at WM X. Many people may not be able to understand guys in tights pretend-fighting for made-up titles, but sibling rivalry? Now that's something most people can understand, and easily get invested in. And then you have a fantastic match to (hopefully) keep them hooked.

    Savage-Warrior at WM VII would be another obvious choice, as so many have mentioned. It would require a brief explanation of the background between Savage & Liz, as well as how Sherri fit in there, but after that, pure gold.

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  78. The summer of 1997 through RR98 was just awesome with HBK/UT/Bret. That HIAC match was so awesome on so many different levels, including introducing a legitimately scary character in Kane. It was just perfect.

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  79. What even put that over the top was seeing the women in the audience crying when Macho Man and Elizabeth hugged after. So good.

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  80. Roddy Piper vs. Adrian Adonis from Wrestlemania III.

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  81. Yep - was going to post that one myself. Everyone is so much at the top of their game and damn if it isn't really fun. Its great half hour if you ever need to remind yourself why you're a wrestling fan.

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  82. Punk/Cena from MITB 2011. All of the older stuff (Rock, Austin, Bret, Hogan, etc) is great, but I'd assume someone would want to watch today's product. That match is a great introduction. Two guys who are still with and near the top of the company, an insanely hot crowd that you rarely see anymore, and a five star match and angle as well.

    Then they can watch what's currently on TV and probably think it's boring and dull and lifeless, but the MITB match would be what I would use to hook them.


    Runner up would be Shawn/Taker from WM 25, although both guys are part time/retired at this point.

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  83. That's so last year dude

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  84. Hmm, I think Eddie might still be okay given that his death didn't get a lot of mainstream media attention and its' really no different than introducing someone to the music of Elvis Presley or Kurt Cobain. If the life and death of the performer comes up, then you can explain truthfully what happened. If not you can just enjoy their legacy. Eddie would actually be a good choice given his combination of fun promos and antics (would love to show someone his Fake Chairshot trick) and really good in-ring work.

    Benoit, on the other hand...the murder/suicide received enough mainstream media attention that it's going to ring a faint bell, and when someone realizes they're watching that guy who killed his family it's going to turn them completely off. Before the murders, of course, Benoit would be an easy choice as his storylines usually had an easy underdog appeal and he had that badass stoic appeal.



    Chris Jericho would be my choice of current wrestlers to showcase to a newer fan. He's got some mainstream appeal from SYTYCD, he can bring it in the ring, and he's wildly entertaining.

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  85. There's a potential winner: Y2J's debut in the WWF. Only thing missing there is a match to back it up...

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  86. I'd say he's just rated right.

    Work: C-/C. He could be carried by good-great wrestlers.
    Promo: D/B: He had issues at times... When he was on, he was very good. On the other hand, he could have half the brain.
    Look: A. No comment necessary.

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  87. I can't tell if you're being serious or not but I can actually see that. I know those two are synonymous with "mid-90s cartoony WWF Crap" but they both played their roles really well and had great chemistry, the noble good guy Tatanka vs the scummy bully IRS. They were just caricatures, sure, but they were great at being caricatures.

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  88. It's an angle that went over like a fart in church.

    What people like about the Chikara's, PWG's and ROH's is that they normally dontdo the bullshit WWE and TNA angles.

    Well they went that route, and everyone has shit all over it

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  89. YOU GOTTA SHOW THEM THE SANDMAN'S ENTRANCE. IT'S A GUARANTEED WINNER. EVERYTIME

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  90. I'm waiting to see how it plays out.


    If it just continues along the "evil owner" (or Director of Fun) bent, I won't really disagree with you (we've seen way too many of those in the last 15 years). If it's something uniquely Chikara, then it could be worth it -- especially since this season is kind of meandering with the dull "Donst as Raven" thing and the somewhat more interesting "FIST Breakup" thing.

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  91. I think almost any upset would work well given the almost universal Underdog appeal. Barry Horowitz vs. Skip & 123 Kid vs. Razor would work for the same reason, they both had really hot commentary as well, with JR's "Horowitz Wins!" and Heenan freaking out about Razor losing.

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  92. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryJune 7, 2013 at 2:13 PM

    One of the ***** TLC matches, something pretty crazy and attention-grabbing.

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  93. I took that into consideration, but when you think about the Warrior himself, and especially just how cool he looked that night, and how Heenan & Monsoon made SUCH a big deal about the match, both guys were at their best, Sherri's interference made her the most evil entity on the planet, and to steal a line from Vince... Elizabeth's eyes told the rest of the story.

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  94. Mankind v Taker, HIAC from KotR 1998

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  95. If you were watching this with your girlfriend, and she asked who the woman in the crowd was... all you'd need to say is that her name is Elizabeth, and used to be Randy's valet, but Randy didn't treat her right... and that's it. Everything else gets played out live to perfection. She wouldn't need to be told who Sherri is, anyone could figure it out because they were actual characters who played parts. Sherri doesn't get nearly enough credit. Imagine her today in WWE, she'd be as over as Daniel Bryan and you'd still hear the cricket chirps when Kaitlyn bounced out.

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  96. I think someone has mentioned it, but the Bret vs. Owen storyline from '93-'94. Easy to understand motivation: jealous younger brother tired of being in big brother's spotlight. Fantastic matches: the tag match at RR, a pure technical clinic at WMX, the best cage match the WWF ever put on at SS, and Owen costing Bret the title at SurSer.

    Alternately, I'd go with Savage vs. Jake Roberts (no one could get you to hate him like The Snake), Sting vs Vader, or HHH vs. Cactus in '00.

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  97. richard householderJune 7, 2013 at 3:55 PM

    I loved that...i despised Tatanka.

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  98. If there is any company with a great track record of hyper-detailed continuity and paying off long term storylines, it's Chikara.

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  99. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryJune 7, 2013 at 6:10 PM

    Dog drinking out of the toilet?

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  100. Anthony RatcliffeJune 7, 2013 at 6:28 PM

    There's a match, but it doesn't happen until two years later, basically, and it wasn't that hot when it did take place...

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  101. Anthony RatcliffeJune 7, 2013 at 6:29 PM

    This is one that immediately came to mind. So entertaining and rewarding.

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  102. Anthony RatcliffeJune 7, 2013 at 6:35 PM

    The first match that popped in my head was Steiners-Sting/Luger from Superbrawl '91. Short, intense, short, has that epic feel, and is short for the attention-span challenged.

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  103. Really any of the early TLC matches. Completely spot-fest and always attention grabbing.

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  104. WCW angle in 99-00. The less known, the better.

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  105. Would these upsets really work as well if you didn't have years of wrestling-watching experience and knowing that jobbers ALWAYS lose? I mean, if you're watching the Mulkeys match for the first time and they win, you just think it's funny. If you were watching them get their asses kicked for years and they suddenly won out of nowhere, you'd be going nuts.

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  106. If someone if trying to play the "oh, these guys aren't real athletes" card, showing then the Steiners vs. Harts tag team match is a pretty good way to shut them up. Really, a lot of early Steiners tag bouts fall into this category.

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  107. The Thunder recap reminded me....the Jericho heel turn/Malenko feud is a GREAT angle to show newcomers. Very easy to pick up on, both guys play their role superbly and it has a great payoff with the good guy winning the title.

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  108. Brian Knobbs & Fit Finaly were this 'hardcore duo' who wore fatigues. Well, they obtained a fellow wrestler known as "Dog", who they'd lead to the ring on a leesh. He'd bark, bite, and walk low, almost on all fours. Well, there'd be vignettes of him tearing up a room, or drinking out of the toilet. It was so weird, because it was like pseudeo-homosexual-S&M-gimp type thing. Especially when Knobbs would scream "Bad Dog!" and start whipping him.

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  109. 2 immediately jump to mind

    1) Austin vs Vince angle, although I don't know what 1 match you could show them as a payoff to the angle.

    2) HBK vs Taker leading to Shawn's retirement. Awesome buildup and awesome payoff match. Throw in HBKs farewell speech from Raw the next night and its the best wrestling has to offer.

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