When did Kayfabe die for you? For me, it was 1985 and I had been to the Pro Wrestling USA card at the Brendan Byrne Arena. Then the local station showed this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-6OdotH_4Q
About 6;35 in and I still love Verne Gagne's explanation (or lack thereof)
For me it was partially PWI Weekly publishing WWF TV taping results in an actual timely manner instead of months behind like the regular magazine, which completely exposed how pre-meditated the whole deal was. And then of course the clincher was logging onto RSPW for the first time while tooling around in my Computing Science class in unversity and reading about how Maxx Payne might be getting ready for a "face turn" and having my mind blown all across the back of the lab. Suddenly I had a vocabulary for all these nebulous concepts I had been trying to put into words for a couple of years. Now of course with the internet so ubiquitous these days there's very little "Aha!" moments for newer fans to have in the same way, but it was big for us in the "internet with no pictures" days.
I think it's important to define kayfabe. Is kayfabe simply believing that the on-air stuff is real, or is it that you know it's scripted but don't have any understanding of the inner workings/backstage stuff?
ReplyDeleteI remember the moment that actually clinched it for me was the WM IV title tournament where EVERY SINGLE MATCH in the tournament neatly aligned so that every bout was face vs. heel. After a while I annoyed the hell out of my younger brothers by predicting every match except the final...
ReplyDeleteMarch 17, 1990 is the day I realized that Wrestling was not as it seemed. I was 9 and my Mom took me and my family to a house show in Portland, OR. Earthquake did his little "tremors" thing and when he came off the rope for the big butt drop he stopped over The Red Rooster and sat down as light as a feather on him. Rooster squirmed around like he was being tasered and they carried him out on a stretcher. It was definitely a "what the hell?" Moment for me.
ReplyDeleteI think even in the 70s people knew it was 'pre-determined' but weren't aware of how orchestrated it was. I've got next to me William Goldman's 1982 book' Adventures of the Screen Trade, where he says
ReplyDelete"We know that when Bruno Sammartino enters the ring, he's pretty much a shoo-in. He may get pounded, he may be beaten almost senseless.But one way or another, he's going to triumph. Whether pro wrestling is actually rehearsed or not, I have no idea. But the outcome is not in doubt."
That was as part of a criticism of the movie ...All the Marbles for treating pro wrestling as if it was a competitive 'sport'.
It wasn't until I moved to Florida and made friends with a wrestling fan when I was about 13 that I learned about the whole insider wrestling world on the internet (through Lords of Pain.net. apparently I thought it was Phat.) I forget what the first thing he dropped on me was, but I think it was something like Mikey Whipwreck leaving for WCW and my mind was blown that he could know that before it happened.
ReplyDeleteI remember getting in a big debate with my mom about whether wrestling was choreographed. She thought I was trying to argue that it was real but I kept trying to explain to her that its all improvised and they're really falling. She still hates that I watch wrestling.
ReplyDeleteAs a young kid I started figuring things out and wondering why they would keep using the same arena for 4-5 weeks straight for Raw and Superstars (during the marathon tapings) The first time I found out Vince McMahon was the owner of the WWF was during the Jim Ross heel promo in 96.
ReplyDeleteAndre/Hogan at The Main Event has to be the death of kayfabe because the angle is so silly no one on Earth could possibly think it was real. So if you were a kid then, like I was, it's over. Except for that one friend who always called during Superstars of Wrestling and though the Warlord was going to kick everyone's ass. He never did.
ReplyDeleteRight before SummerSlam where the Ultimate Warrior defeated the Honkey Tonk Man for the IC Championship they were advertising Champion Warrior defending against the Ex-Champ Honkey Tonk Man at the Cow Palace.
ReplyDeleteI somehow stumbled across the IWC in 2004 shortly after WMXX. So you can imagine how confused I was when MSG gave Goldberg/Brock a warm New York ovation.
ReplyDeleteFeel like I've seen this thread before...maybe I dreamed it...
ReplyDeleteAnyway:
WWF Magazine, interview with Hogan: "I connected with a really good punch during filming and broke Zeus' nose"
two months later:
Vince McMahon: "The Hulkster laying into Zeus with all he has but Zeus isn't even flinching!! Can anything stop him!?!?!"
The whole Zeus thing really exposed the business big-time. I mean, this pereson who everyone knows is an actor, is suddenly almost able to beat the world champion?!!
ReplyDeleteThat angle was awesome. wtf
ReplyDeleteStill real to me, dammit!
ReplyDeleteDidn't say it wasn't. But there's no way you could sit there and think "this is real". Ted Dibiase getting someone plastic surgery so that guy could look like Earl Hebner?
ReplyDeleteI just thought that Dibiase had hired Earl Hebner away from the NWA to screw Hogan.
ReplyDeleteWrestleMania VI.
ReplyDeleteThe light bulb went on when the Ultimate Warrior beat Hulk Hogan. The Warrior was good, but not that good. The way Rick Rude dominated the Ultimate Warrior for most of their match at SummerSlam '89 showed the Warrior wasn't on Hogan's level.
I thought Zeus could beat the Ultimate Warrior. Ah, to be 7 again.
Someone should have thought to reuse that with the Bella Twins before blowing their cover.
ReplyDelete"Plastic surgery" was all Hogan. I don't think anybody else claimed that.
ReplyDeleteI was about 10 and it was after the whole 20/20 episode with Eddie Mansfield and Dr. D slapping the crap out of Stossel. Also getting my first VCR at around the same time. Slowing stuff down and seeing they really weren't hitting each other.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was 6 (1990), my older brother and I were heavily immersed in wrestling. My dad hated it, but because we were good students and obedient kids, he never minded our hobby.
ReplyDeleteWe thought it was real at this point, mind you. On an episode of Prime Time Wrestling, the Red Rooster came out, and dad, reading the paper in his easy chair, gave his classic look of disgust and disbelief at a man bobbing his head like a chicken, complete with red mohawk, while his theme music featuring chicken sounds.
I'll never forget him shaking his head and telling my brother and I, "Look, you have to understand that this ISN'T real. People don't go to work or school and think they're chickens, and have other people think it's normal. Please, don't think any of this is like real life, okay?" That's not verbatim, but that encapsulates his frustrated near-breakdown at a man making a cock of himself.
At 32 I get a lot of the "you STILL watch that?" or "I used to watch that when I was a kid" type of remarks when I bring up wrestling.
ReplyDeleteYeah I thought it was determined that Dave Hebner had a twin no one knew about.
ReplyDeleteWhat's funny about the "too many Hebners" angle is that it's so hamhanded, yet they treated Savage/Steamboat like a shoot. Including bringing him to a hospital just because...
ReplyDeleteOf course he worked a few shows afterwards, but when you pre-tape and there's no internet, it's not like anyone's gonna know unless you went to both shows.
Tonight...in this very Ring!
ReplyDeleteMy kayfabe story is the same as Scott's -- I was in my computer orientation in Penn State and thought it would be a kick to search for "wrestling" on this thing called Yahoo! and found rsp-w, Herb Kunze's Wrestling Tidbits and THE GOOD GUYS ARE FACES, THE BAD GUYS ARE HEELS. I had figured for a long time that something was up, but wasn't sure how as a fan I could accept that things were fake and still enjoy it.
ReplyDeleteNow earlier this year I ruined the big secret for a student of mine. I'm a ninth grade teacher, and eventually my students find out about my fandom, usually around WrestleMania time. Some of my students were poking fun, asking if i still thought it was real. A girl who was listening in said, "What do you mean... real?" And I had to explain that the fights are scripted. It was almost like telling a kid Santa Calus isn't real.
I thought it was real in that the finishes weren't pre-determined until I was about 12. I knew the Undertaker wasn't actually a dead guy, but I also realized that if he threw someone across the ring, it hurt.
ReplyDeleteLooking back, I did notice things from time to time, but my suspenders of disbelieve were new and strong, so I just ignored it. The cracks really appeared after reading Foley's book. I had no idea what half of the things he was talking about meant, but he laid it out pretty clear.
Kayfabe died completley when I found a book called glass ceiling something or other, by some Keith Scott guy.
I thought I knew wrestling was fake until Magnum had the car wreck. I was six when it happened and it just seemed like the kind of stunt wrestling would pull. JCP always did enough to make you wonder what was "real" and what wasn't.
ReplyDeleteDidn't know about inside lingo and what not until I picked up a WOW magazine in the grocery store around 98-99. I think the first sentence referenced Terry Bollea. Seemed like ground breaking stuff at the time.
I remember PWI pointed out the ridiculousness, after that farce, of having one of the Hebners referee the final of the WMIV title tournament.
ReplyDeleteMy first live wrestling event (I was 8-9), the 2 people behind me were talking about how fake it is. I then asked my dad if it was true, he said, "yeah."
ReplyDeleteFor the insider info right around WM6, there used to be a nationwide newspaper called "The national." Every Tuesday, they had a wrestling section and my mom would stop at a newsstand on the way home from school so I can read about what's going on in wrestling. Warrior had just gave up the IC title and I knew from the newspaper Mr Perfect would win the title. No one believed me until I brought in the paper that said that Perfect would win.
There's no way this line shouldn't have been in the first comment on this thread.
ReplyDeleteI remember WOW. Didn't last long, probably because the writing sucked. Good photos though.
ReplyDeletePlus the fact that their target demo could get the same info on the internet, but yeah those photos really stood out.
ReplyDeleteNever, really, or to be more accurate kayfabe never lived in my eyes to begin with. I didn't start watching until I was 13, and my buddy that got me into it was pretty smartened up, even though he didn't quite know the lingo. So I knew from day one that things weren't above board. First exposure to the IWC was in 99 or so when I finally got internet access and stumbled across this site with this funny Canadian guy that had a really bad mouth and a somewhat unhealthy obsession with Bret Hart and Chris Benoit.
ReplyDeleteLike clockwork the other day, my friend briefly mentioned to me that WWE was coming to Perth soon and the other guy in the room was like 'you know it's not real guys'. Usually I'd take the normal route and remind him that 99% of television isn't real, but instead I ignored the remark and settled for taking all his money in poker.
ReplyDeleteHad they started 5 years before they did when only rich people and college students had internet access they probably would have done better. But yeah, the photos were great, especially when PWI was still mostly B&W at the time.
ReplyDeleteI somehow end up having that conversation with someone every couple months of so.
ReplyDeleteI pretty much knew from the start that it was fake, but I'd still get caught up in the drama... and it was the DUMBEST shit that would fool me. I legit believed Martel had blinded Jake the Snake; those contacts Jake wore on the Brother Love Show fucked me up.
ReplyDeleteAs for evidence:
I loved loved loved the Hogan-Bossman match from Saturday Night's Main Event, not least because the superplex from the top of the cage was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen... and then i saw it again, 'cause some Colliseum Video or another included another steel cage match between the two from a house show, and setting aside the Zeus attack before the match, the two matches were nearly identical.
Also, when I watched Warrior destroy Honky Tonk Man at Summerslam for the hundredth time, I noticed Honky scoot himself over to align his body properly for Warrior's splash.
When did you learn that Joe Paterno was a jerk?
ReplyDeleteKayfabe died for me pretty much the day I actually started watching wrestling. We didn't have it on TV in New Zealand until 1988, prior to that the only exposure I had was seeing Apter mags on the shelf when I was a child. I assumed wrestling was real because I had no basis for thinking otherwise. I remember seeing a cover photo of Dusty bleeding like a stuck pig (as he did), and couldn't think of any other reason why that would be the case unless it was a real fight.
ReplyDeleteHowever, when WWE started showing on TV here it was accompanied by a lot of write-ups in newspapers, magazines etc. which basically all gave the game away right off the bat.
I didn't know HOW they "faked" it, but I always knew it wasn't "real".
This was a QOTD just a couple of months ago, and my answer hasn't changed:
ReplyDeleteI always knew to an extent; from the time I started watching there'd always be someone around to remind you that "WWF was Fake." It was a lot of fun to watch, though, so I'd just smile and nod and keep watching. Whether or not it was fake really had no bearing on my enjoyment of it.
That said, there were two things that stand out as suspending my disbelief. One was the 1994 Royal Rumble. Need I say more? I could tell that the Undertaker's disappearance and ascension was done with special effects and wires like a movie, so knowing that wasn't real made it harder to see anything in wrestling as real.
The other was Making A Difference Fatu. Changing my perception of what was real and fake in wrestling may have been the only difference he ever made. Here was this savage who used to wrestle barefoot and eat raw fish and chicken, and now suddenly he'd been raised in the 'hood and spoke perfect English. Although I'd always known it to an extent, that was the point where I fully realized that not only were the matches themselves fake and predetermined, but the gimmicks were an act as well.
Ha. I never gave a shit about the football, and ended up getting my degree years later from somewhere else.
ReplyDeleteMy moment was when George Hackenschmidt was showing off by using a three quarters nelson, when it was clear that only a half nelson was really necessary.
ReplyDeleteDoes this count as proof that Scott doesn't read the QOTD?
ReplyDeleteI hate that, "you know it's not real" shit. Of course we know it's not real.
ReplyDeleteEven as a kid, I had the feeling that something was not quite right, little things just did not always add up. I think, like Scott, PWI kinda added to that feeling, even as it added to my enjoyment of the sport. I was pretty much pushed to the edge when I got in a fight in 7th grade, we landed maybe 7-8 combined punches on each other and both were bleeding with black eyes and swollen faces- that night while icing my face, I was watching Prime Time and noticed that guys were landing haymakers over and over again without so much as a bloody nose.
ReplyDeleteThe final nail was seeing the Undertaker at a turnpike rest stop taking a piss two urinals over from me and him not being a, you know, walking zombie.
I just had to explain that tk someone the other day. She thought they were like actors playing around and was legitimately surprised they have to get surgeries and stuff. Of course it ended as it always does.... "Have you ever WATCHED it?" "Uh, no".
ReplyDeleteZombies have to piss too, you know.
ReplyDeleteRoyal Rumble 92. Flair comes out. My dad goes "There's your winner."
ReplyDeleteNO HE CAN'T DAD HE GOT NUMBER 3!
Also my mom telling me Vince McMahon had sex with a bunch of men. I was like, 9. Jesus mom.
How could anyone over the age of say, 4,ever think it's real? Even if you're too stupid to see the kicks don't connect, Drunk Uncle is always there to tell you alla them guys are pussies in real life!!
ReplyDeleteToo bad Drunk Uncle never met Dr. D.
ReplyDeleteI guess Scott never had a drunk uncle and made it all the way to university without knowing.
ReplyDeleteIt's a little bit like magic to me. I know they aren't really doing magic but I don't know what the trick is behind it. Same with wrestling for a long time. I knew it wasn't straight-up but I didn't know how they did it. For a while I was convinced that they would fight for real backstage and the winner got to win on TV.
ReplyDeleteBut the thing that gave wrestling away was when I saw UFC for the first time in 1995 or so. I saw Tank Abbott KO'ing people and I shocked. I think that's partly why I still love wrestling and the fact that it's "fake" is actually a bonus to me. I don't like real violence. I like simulated violence. Violence in movies and comics and video games is cool with me.
Nice to see that Phil Mushnick has always been a prick. A leopard just never changes its spots.
ReplyDeleteI feel your pain. My mom told me that Santa had sex with all the reindeer. "Except for Rudolph. Because he's a Jew." And then she went back to decorating the tree and never said another terrible thing again. Still, that left an impression. I left a note out with the milk and cookies that year telling Santa that it's rude to not include.
ReplyDeleteI didn't have a drunk uncle, my uncle was great. He watched wrestling with me and never broke my illusion of it being fake. Sometimes me and my uncle even had wrestling matches, it was great. We would go in his basement, he would have us both strip down to our underwear just like the real wrestlers. Then we would wrestle around a on a mattress for hours. My parents being assholes though caught us during one of our epic matches and I never saw Uncle Ernie again. Sounds like you just had a terrible, drunk uncle man.
ReplyDeleteSadly I'm not even joking about mine. She watched that Donahue interview.
ReplyDeleteIt's also how I found out Vince was the owner of WWF. I was wondered why the kept using that boring announcer guy.
Watch out for foreign objects!!!!
ReplyDelete"For a while I was convinced that they would fight for real backstage and the winner got to win on TV."
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of a comic I saw in Mad Magazine (Cheap!) when I was a kid that showed 2 wrestlers playing chess (you could tell they were wrestlers because they looked like wrestlers and they were in a locker room), some random guy sticking his head in the door to talk to the wrestlers, then the 2 wrestlers being held back by other guys so they don't kill each other with a camera crew there.
Check. Mate. Job.
I remember as a kid, when Ken Shamrock in the WWF was known as "The World's Dangerous Man", I thought he was literally the world's most dangerous man, as if he could literally kill anyone who stood in front of him.
ReplyDeleteIT'S A C-O-N....spiracy! SCOTT KEITH, YOU'STA A ROOSTER FROM BREWSTER!
ReplyDeleteFor me it was probably somewhere around the 15th or 16th time I saw a guy get up groggily from a pair of Cena shoulder-blocks and fire off a wild haymaker--that had no chance of connecting--resulting in Cena ducking and hitting a Proto-bomb to set up the "You Can't See Me" fistdrop which popped the guy up, once more, for an FU (or AA). Up till then I could write it off as a coincidence, but at that point the pattern just became too undeniably rehearsed.
ReplyDeleteSo THAT removed the wool over your eyes, but not everyone chilling with their face on the middle rope in every Rey Mysterio match?!?!?!
ReplyDeleteI don't think he really reads anything that he doesn't post himself.
ReplyDeleteI actually did not know that.... so wait, wrestling is real then?
ReplyDeleteI started watching when I was 5ish since my cousin watched it and like others who start watching it young it was a gradual thing. I would make excuses for moves not looking right. Of course I had my dad telling me it was fake and how it didn't look real at all. To his credit though he took me to tons of shows. Around 8ish it really just fell together for me. Although I swore WWF was fake but NWA/Mid South was real for a while. Did anybody else do that, think one promotion was fake while another was the real thing?
ReplyDeleteUncle Ernie...having just caught the who's Tommy at Stratford that's a spot on name choice
ReplyDeleteFor some reason I always used to mix him up with Dick Clark when I was a kid, which made it mind boggling when I found out he ran the whole thing (Not Jack Tunney?!?!). Maybe it was the hair.
ReplyDeleteOf course wrestling isn't real! But zombies are! And they have to piss!
ReplyDeleteWell, you see Rey knows exactly how to work his opponents over in such a way that they're basically paralyzed by the time they fall over that rope. Rey's psychology is very underrated in that regard. It's the same technique Mil Mascaras used to keep his opponents from simply murdering him while he preened and pranced around the ring.
ReplyDeleteThat's funny. My niece kept calling him "Ed McMahon". Up to the point that she called when Ed McMahon died to let me know that the WWF owner died.
ReplyDeleteI kinda wanna watch "TVs Bloopers and Pratical Jokes" now.
I have 3 drunk uncles, and they can all go fuck themselves. Nothing to do with wrestling, but just because they're all scumbags. I don't why I felt the need to share that, but there it is...
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of which, if my 8 year niece decided to start watching, what does everyone think would be the best approach? Try to play along like it's all real, or just expose the whole thing right off?
Do zombies have to piss? I don't think I've ever seen a zombie drinking a soda or anything. Isn't they're entire diet brains?
ReplyDeleteCorrect. It's like how The Peoples Elbow holds the opponent down with actual static eletricity from the crowd.
ReplyDeleteEd McMahon on WWF television would have been seriously awesome.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that he reads any post that makes fun of TNA.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if he has finished growing the evil goatee?
The towing shows are the new wrestling. Everyone's always fighting, guns get pulled randomly (ON CAMERA), various crimes are committed and no one ever goes to jail.
ReplyDeleteAlso gotta love how those people magically always have the money to buy some expensive new toy or an old antique they've "always wanted" without admitting the painfully obvious (The producers gave them the money).
ReplyDeleteFor me it was because Hillybilly Jim kept winning matches. No way could someone who sucked that much win if it was real.
ReplyDeleteThis. Every adult I knew would say that it was fake, and half the kids. I can't imagine ANYONE thinking it was real for any length of time, and I was brought up in an era before UFC to show us what REAL fights looked like!
ReplyDeleteAre you familiar with the Spirit Bomb?
ReplyDeleteDid you then fuck his woman?
ReplyDeleteHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
ReplyDeleteScott doesn't read QOTD.
I love it.
God, this one has always killed me.
ReplyDeleteWould it really hurt to sometimes end up on the second rope on something other than a Rey match?
I always remember being like 7 and someone doing an irish whip and I asked my dad "why would they run? And why would they run back? Like i'd just stop.". This was 1987, still watched so needless to say the answer didnt matter to me
ReplyDeletehell no! His woman is like a -2
ReplyDeleteI don't mind it if Mysterio drop toe holds them onto the second rope, but when they just take a bump and somehow end up there it's pretty ridiculous
ReplyDeleteOutback Jack and Sam Houston winning matches was much worse than that. At least Hillbilly Jim was a big, tall dude who even with his ridiculous gimmick still looked like he could beat up any average joe.
ReplyDeleteSam Houston and Outback Jack on the other hand were so scrawny and so laughable as believeable threats that they made George Gulas look like Brock Lesnar.
Nice and encouraging... Man, it does actually take quite a lot of effort and commitment to do daily topics.
ReplyDeleteQuit crying. QOTD is over.
ReplyDeleteAnd it isn't hard to do daily topics.
Don't sit here and try to say that scouring 411 and WZ for for news is a lot of effort, just like saying "What's your favorite (insert movie or tv show here)" is a lot of effort because it isn't.
The QOTD comes from other people. He just posts it.
You just copy/paste links.
That's not hard. ANybody can do that.
Half the work is done for you.
For example.
Cornette says Vince RUsso is the reason people think he is stuck in the 80s
(hyperlink)
QOTD: What if Raven was the higher power in 99?
DONE.
When I noticed the recipient of a Superplex would always the help the guy doing it.
ReplyDeleteI was like ''What are you doing, just push him off!''
Then it hit me.
But you... because you replied.
ReplyDeleteStep the fuck off nobody. This doesn't concern you.
It was when I discovered some smark magazins in 95 or so. First I couldn't believe, that ALL results where fixed, but then I could enjoy it though.
ReplyDeleteHindsight is always 20/20, but when I saw at WMVIII the Big Boss Man selling or hitting a fake blow which misses some inches I should have known it...;-)
Sure the QOTD and News Feed thing aren't strictly speaking "difficult tasks" but I do think they add a good place for daily discussions on the blog about wrestling and other subjects. Personally, I'm a fan of both.
ReplyDeleteHomer Simpson.
ReplyDeleteIt takes a highly skilled manatee to handle those chores. And the best ones are all working for Family Guy.
ReplyDeleteIt's still real to me!
ReplyDeleteWhether it's challenging or not is besides the point.
ReplyDeleteHere's a fact for you - it took 25 minutes out of my day, every day. Now no one was forcing me to do that, but it's common decency to not chip away at people for no reason.
I'm just saying man, have some respect rather than being a dick to people. If you don't like it, move along. Quit trolling and being a dick to people who contribute.
There should be a QOTD about movies. Haven't seen that in a while.
ReplyDelete*whoosh*
ReplyDeleteThey do add. Im a fan of both as well.
ReplyDeleteI never said they didn't. Im just saying they aint hard or time consuming to do.
And nobody can change my opinion otherwise.
lmao that final sentence sums it up. Fine mate, no worries.
ReplyDeleteJeez.
Come here to chat and debate and you're going to be that closed minded? I guess these places always have a few people like this.
Wait... time out....
ReplyDeleteSo you get but hurt about a joke i made, then once I state my opinion about it, you call me a troll and close minded cuz I think your threads dont take much time?
25 minutes. You said it. I didnt say this. You did.
Theres 24 hours in a day. This isnt rocket science.
25 minutes.... 24 hours....
I mean am i wrong?
Should I have never called you out in the first place?
Im sorry I hurt your feelings, if thats what you want to hear. I never meant to be a troll or close minded. Ill just play along.
Again, I like what you do.
LET ME REPEAT.
I like what you do.
Im just syaing its not that strenuous and sifting through comments or copy/pasting. Lets call a spade a spade.
It's not the first time. You just seem to chip away at him quite a lot. Perhaps there's something about you two I don't know about/some sort of history.
ReplyDeleteDidn't mean to stick my nose in, but I just wanted to get that off of my chest.
The last thing I come here to do is shit sling. To me, half an hour every single day with anything is some sort of commitment, but everyone's entitled to their opinion.
So you're right - we're calling a spade a spade. No hard feelings.
And thats fair. You take pride in what you do.
ReplyDeleteI applaud that. More people should no matter how insignificant it may be. (not saying what you do is, im just saying in general)
But Im good with Caliber, I never met the man. How can I be upset at someone i never met? Thats a waste of energon. I aint got time for that. The last thing I come and do is shit sling.
If you consider my off comment shit slinging, then you might wanna read the various comments about wrestling I have made over the years. Quite honestly, I like to think I stray away from those types of dealings. Will I needle posters? Absoutlely, if they can take it. Cuz I can take it, if its dished at me. Cult and Phrederic poke at me all the time. I take it and roll with the punches.. Its harmless. If you can't, fair enough. I know not to fuck with you in the future.
Furthermore, Between you and QOTD you average like 200-300 comments a day. More if the topic of TV/Movies come up.
ReplyDeleteYou're gonna get upset about 1 comment. That wasn't even addressed to you?
Do I mean that much to you? Im honored...
Yep, all fair!
ReplyDeleteI'm definitely more sensitive than I should be, but hey, i'm working on it!
...you just made me feel VERY old.
ReplyDeleteFuj, I'll indulge you.
ReplyDeleteNobody cares that there was post a few months back that had the same topic. Can you see that happening in real life?
"What do you think about that Zimmerman verdict?"
"HAHAHAHAHAHA I talked about that two weeks ago!"
That's autism spectrum right there. Right along with you talking about what's "over" on a wrestling board and your role-play fight with Caliber.
But hey, I'm just a nobody. You're the alpha dog with 6k comments.
Kayfabe died for me the day I learned that Abraham Lincoln was never a former NWA champion
ReplyDeletePolitics. Gagne would only let him win by DQ or Countout due to his lack of an amateur background.
ReplyDeleteUFC while non pre-determined like wrestling is hardly what a real fight looks like either.
ReplyDeleteECW!
ReplyDeleteYeah, that John Wilkes Booth run in was bullshit.
ReplyDeleteKayfabe died for me when The Mizzard of Oz won the title. That's when I officially knew it was pre-determined.
ReplyDeleteThank you everyone for telling me wrestling is FAKE! God, I don't want to work today now. What a way to start Monday morning.
ReplyDeleteAre you telling me that Undertaker DOESN'T have supernatural powers?
Oh well.
ReplyDeleteAt least we know the fine General Managers of both brands do a honest, fine job.
I honestly still haven't figured out who's in charge storyline wise. And I'm shooting and not joking.
ReplyDeleteLast time I was shopping for my kids, I saw 2 couples arguing over buying the last of a certain toy. Teddy Long appeared and ordered a tag match.
ReplyDeleteBrickie McLong is in charge of booking matches
ReplyDelete*Triple Brickie McLong Bitchface (that's Steph btw)
ReplyDeleteNow hold on playas! Ya'll seem to be tussling over that John Elway doll with karate chop action. Looks like the only way to settle this is tonight both of you will face each other in a tag team match. With the winning couple going one on one with the undertaker!
ReplyDeleteI still don't understand how Miz goes from main eventing WM 27 to being on the pre-show for WM29. Biggest downgrade ever?
ReplyDeleteAt least he had a killer finish.
ReplyDeleteIt was when my dad flat out told me that it was fake in an effort to get me to stop watching. Jokes on him, because I never stopped!
ReplyDeleteWhy the downvote?
ReplyDeleteWho is he to doubt The Red Rooster?
ReplyDeleteAs long as someone still brings the fact that there were 2 Ultimate Warriors anytime wrestling is brought up - Kayfabe will live forever!
ReplyDeleteDamn, I really got to you. Didn't I?
ReplyDeleteYou talk role-playing but you jumped to the other posters defense like some superhero for no reason.
And what did it accomplish? Nothing. Im still gonna say what I gotta say. I made my point. You cared enough to respond with your inane post. Hope it feels good.
btw, im not the alpha dog, thats cult. But obviously you think im somebody though. I appreciate it.
Im sorry i like to talk about wrestling. I didnt know the more posts, the lamer you get. I must have been doing this wrong.
I need to not post and just lurk. Is that how it works?
Let me know. Get back to me.
As much as Paterno didn't do enough, it seems like his name gets brought up more than Sandusky, who was the one actually pooning kids in the shower.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could remember exactly when I figured out as a kid that it was all fixed, but I can't. I do remember when my dad tried to give me The Talk after a backstage segment where Hulk Hogan got beat up real bad by a group of heels (I seem to remember something like a "flash grenade" weapon used to blind him or something), and me sitting shocked and worried while I was eating my lunch. My dad laughed at my reaction and tried to set me straight about it all.
ReplyDeleteJesus, my parents still think the original died, even though i've corrected them many, many times.
ReplyDeleteYou win
ReplyDeleteBritish Bulldog clotheslining Bam Bam Bigelow and completely missing, yet Bam Bam sold the shit out of it. I tried to rationalise it as "oh, it must be because Bam was anticipating the move and so dropped to the mat anyway to at least avoid Bulldog's arm even if he'll still hurt his back on the mat", but deep down I knew
ReplyDeleteFor you I figured it would be when you saw someone who obviously doesn't lift, bro, as a main eventer... I hope you can take this good natured ribbing and not go all FLAIR4DAGOLD on me
ReplyDeleteOh snap it's cool. The one point someone made about CM Punk that did make sense was that he draws money. I guess that is hard to argue with although think about this - CM Punk on steroids would literally be CM Punk on steroids.
ReplyDeleteMeh to me it would take away from his everyman quality. Aside from his great promo/ring work the reason I like him as much as I do is that he is very easy for me to identify with, from his position on drugs/alcohol, the way he dresses/tattoos, his attitude etc... I see a lot of myself in him so it makes it easier to support him.
ReplyDeletethat sentence could have stopped after the 27
ReplyDeleteNo SPOILER ALERT warning???
ReplyDeleteI half thought ECW was real until I actually watched an episode.
ReplyDeleteI was at a WWF house show in 1994 where the main event was Michaels vs Razor Ramon, and then saw them(and Diesel and Kid) pull up to a restaurant in the same car after the show.
ReplyDelete"... a man making a cock of himself."
ReplyDeletePun intended?
I think the first clue I had to wrestling not being "real" was how televised shows always neatly fit within the time slot allotted to them. Not the Saturday morning jobber shows, but shows like Clash of the Champions, where title matches would have 60 minute time limits, but everything always ended on time.
ReplyDeleteBig Show went from main eventing WM 2000 to being at WWF NY for X-8.
ReplyDeleteMy Dad blew it for me the first time I watched it. Pointed out how the cops new get involved when someone gets hit with a weapon, how you can't take 10 punches to the head and not be messed up, etc.
ReplyDeleteThen I noticed things like botched spots and all that. Then around 94 I got a computer and started screwing around on BBS's and found guys talking about wrestling, but like Scott, the big reveal was RSPW when I went to college.
Really, people should have been smartened up to it with the shit The Undertaker was pulling off. The dude was SUMMONING lightning bolts INSIDE buildings.
ReplyDeleteWhat is it with Dad's???
ReplyDeleteBecause Joepa is the one people treated (and still treat) like a saint. They cried when his statue was taken down. They held a candlelight vigil for someone who covered up years of child molestation. Hell, they still wear his shirts! That's why he leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He was a terrible person who is still revered as a god because he knew about sports.
ReplyDeleteTo put it in rasslin' terms, don't you get fed up with the mouthbreathers in the IWC who keep insisting Benoit should have a DVD set,or be in the HoF?
The cops don't get involved when NBA players foul each other.
ReplyDeleteComparing Paterno to Benoit is outlandish:
ReplyDeleteHe's more like Chavo Guerrero, who was receiving the coded text messages.
Was listening to a local sports radio host named Kendall Lewis talk about how it was fixed which made me sad
ReplyDeleteClearly they put extra surveillance around the Hebner household to ensure the real Hebner would referee the match.
ReplyDeleteI still don't know who thought Miz as WWE Champion was a good idea.
ReplyDeleteI heard there are books that can allow you to do that.
ReplyDeleteThat was one of the cool things about Mid-South/UWF. One of my favorite memories was seeing the ring filled with guys and other guys running out of the locker room as Jim Ross yelled, "WE'RE OUTTA TIME!!!"
ReplyDeleteHalftime Heat. You know why.
ReplyDeleteWell I knew from the start that it was all pre-determined, that Vince was really in charge of it all, etc. But if you're talking about knowing all of the inside-stuff: face/heel, the politics behind the scenes, etc., it had to be when I picked it back up in college in 1997 and started reading all the wrestling internet sites like Mi Casa.
ReplyDeletePractically everyone knows it's fake from the start. The question is whether you care. I started becoming more invested in match quality than rooting for a particular wrestler in 2001 which - wouldn't you know it - is when I started reading recaps with those little asterisks at the end of each match.
ReplyDeleteFortunately, in the last few years, I've stopped caring about those too and just try to enjoy what's on the screen. Well, while making snide remarks here on the BOD.
My Dad caught me watching the Raw Replay the other night and it was the Punk Heyman Segment. He was nonplussed.
ReplyDeletePunk is really the only relatable guy they have. Bryan seems like a normal dude IRL, but as far as on air personas Punk is the only one who seems like a real person you would know.
ReplyDeleteI was actually smartened up in the early 90's when I was 11 or 12. I think it was a syndicated radio show called "Wrestling Insiders". I have no idea who the hosts were, if anyone remembers this and could give me some info that would be tremendous. The show was on late Saturday nights.
ReplyDeleteMi Casa rocked.
ReplyDeleteI just always assumed you were in character as a "heel" or something.
ReplyDeleteForklift?
ReplyDeleteThe punching is what gives it away, especially today with the increased popularity of the UFC and MMA. How could you explain to a kid watching UFC and seeing a guy go down after one punch, then showing them wrestling where guys take punches and kicks to the head and don't even bruise.
ReplyDeleteFor me it was stumbling on to the internet in 1996 and reading about Hulk Hogan's recent heel turn and potential members of the nWo. My mind was blown and I became fascinated by the backstage goings on.
ReplyDeleteI think the point is that if in a baseball game a player starts slamming another with a bat, chair or a piece of wood wrapped in barbed wire, the police would more or less get involved.
ReplyDeleteThree incidents:
ReplyDelete1) Shaska Whatley hitting someone off the ropes with a dropkick, but the dropkick misses by a good foot, and the guy goes down like he took an ICBM in the mouth.
2) Iron Sheik/Duggan.
But really, the correct answer would be: When Maury Povich and A Current Affair did an expose on the WWF and how McMahon had to file with the New Jersey State Athletic Commission as "pure entertainment" so as not to have the same sanctions as those governed by boxing. I still have the program on VHS - Jesse "The Body" was awesome as usual, taking a shot at ACA during the program.
forklift.
ReplyDeleteReally, though, you could say "The People's Elbow". Because if a guy is going to lay on the mat for an extended Riverdance exhibition, why not just pin the guy?
ReplyDeleteSide note - During Rock's heel turn in 2003, he should prepped for the People's Elbow, and instead of hitting it, just cover the guy. Nuclear heat would have been had.
Oh yeah, shitty finishers like the Rock N' Roll Express' double dropkick made me give wrestling the side eye as a kid. No way that move finishes a match.
ReplyDeleteHA! I downvoted myself!
ReplyDeleteHillbilly Jim was the overall best and you know it.
ReplyDeleteWas it survivor series 89 when savage and Zeus attacked hogan and beefcake backstage?
ReplyDeleteHaha one of my high school friends STILL thinks it. The 92 warrior was a fake!! Lol
ReplyDeleteAlso EWR had a hand in smartening me up, too.
ReplyDeleteHe was hot at the time and was someone new at the top instead of Orton or Cena.
ReplyDeleteYou can trust this man. He's a doctor.
ReplyDelete90% sure it was a blown spot being repeated or a move that didn't connect, but was sold anyway. I was toughened up by family members throughout my glory years (WCW '91 - '93) with snide remarks and put-downs, but it didn't sink in until I began realizing that these idiots were acting hurt after not being physically touched.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I vividly remember Sid redoing spots and face-palming because of it.
Is it just me,or should they stop doing the "try to do a back body drop but get kicked in the face" spot? All it is is a way for "They Already Have Playstation 7 Out In Japan Neighbor","Drunk Uncle",and "Anyone Can Do That Shit Dad" to explain that one guy is "missing his choreography." There's no amount of real back body drops you can show them that will shut them up.
ReplyDeleteAlso,maybe it's a regional thing,but some of the mouthbreathers around here think it was Savage who died and was replaced. I think it might be because a friend of their friend knew about Genius being Savage's shoot brother and then whisper down the lane turns it into purple monkey dishwasher. Some of them think Savage AND Warrior were replaced by not-quite-identical twins.
early UFC was full of cock-punches and didn't have rounds, so I would say it was. And in any case, it shows real punches, real kicks, and how a real submission hold would work (ie. you don't have to kick the leg one hundred times to set it up, nor does the guy just hold on and take the move- it's instant tap-out).
ReplyDeleteI first saw some wrestling in 1991 with the WWF Saturday morning show. I was 9 at the time so I'm pretty sure I didn't know it was fake then.
ReplyDeleteThen I started watching again in 1997-1998 during the Monday Night Wars. At that point I knew it the moves were done not to seriously hurt people, but I didn't realize how much the results were predetermined and the feuds scripted. That was pretty naive of me and between common sense and a few snarky internet comments from others I soon smartened up.
The "fake" aspect never bothered me because I grew up watching war movies and action movies and the idea of wrestling as a kind of action movie I could completely accept once the concept dawned on me.
For me it was my mom. She never missed an opportunity to tell me it was fake. My dad would always play along mark out with me and my brother.
ReplyDeleteSandusky was Josef Mengele, the Angel of Death who destroyed untold lives.
ReplyDeletePaterno was Hitler, the guy who made it all possible.
And those wrestling articles in "The National"? None other than Dave Meltzer.
ReplyDeleteWhat is it with Rick's?
ReplyDelete