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More "surprise" predictions

Now I don't quite have an opening story like getting punched by a meth head, but I have a few more questions about "surprises" and what most of the smarks thought of them

- Hogan's turn at Bash of the Beach
- Foley "retiring" at No Way Out 2000
- Jericho winning the Undisputed title
- Jericho's debut in 99
- Undertaker returning at Judgment Day 2000
- Eric Bischoff debuting on Raw
- HBK retiring in 98

And one small bonus, was it known that Bret was leaving prior to Survivor Series 97? Obviously the Screwjob wasn't expected, and I'm not bringing up Montreal being a work, but I've just wondered if Bret leaving was known

Bret leaving was national news in Canada weeks before.

I think we've done most of these before, but we'll hit 'em again for fun:

- Hogan's turn was speculated but no one thought they'd seriously do it, and it hit like an atomic bomb online as a result.  

- For Foley's "retirement" people were bummed but figured he'd be back.  

- With the Jericho thing most people thought they'd do Rock v. Austin as the finals, so the Jericho win was clearly out of nowhere as far as that goes.  People were definitely happy about it, though.

- Jericho's debut was HUGE.  People went crazy for it, although everyone knew he was coming in around that time.  

- I think people knew Undertaker's return was coming around then, but I don't exactly recall.

- WWE made no secret of Bischoff's "surprise" debut, and the feeling was that they botched it from day one.  

- HBK didn't really "retire", he just took time off for his back surgery and then never came back.  Even as early as Survivor Series 98 there was speculation that he'd be the mystery entrant who turned out to be Gillberg.  I think you can even hear fans chanting for Shawn when they're doing the ring intro for that match, in fact.  It wasn't until the commissioner role that people kind of bought once and for all that he was gone.

Comments

  1. What about Cena's return at the 2008 Royal Rumble? No-one expected that, given his injury...

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  2. Did people ever actually buy into Shawn being gone for good? I remember reading all kinds of crappy wrestling sites that kept speculating he'd be back "next month" for years.

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  3. Shawn as a wrestler was persona non grata between 1998 and 2002. He was like Magnum TA if he had actually won the world title... times a billion.

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  4. Depends what you mean by gone. He was around quite a bit. Him getting swerved by Triple H and then actually wrestling was a little bit of a surprise to me.

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  5. One thing I remember with Jericho was the rumor they were going to gimmick him up. I think the newz gimmick was "X-Calibur"? I think they would definitely do something like that today, but it would have been a disaster in 99 when the audience was familiar with the competition

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  6. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryAugust 11, 2013 at 1:08 AM

    Yeah, that was as shocking as anything, because every report had him out beyond Mania.

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  7. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryAugust 11, 2013 at 1:09 AM

    Everyone knew it was Jericho, and that was the reason everyone was losing their shit. Just pure excitement, and that debut is fucking awesome.

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  8. Your_Favourite_AssholeAugust 11, 2013 at 1:18 AM

    savio vega as the mystery partner at no way out 98. MIND = BLOWN


    then there was that time when kane was the mystery opponent for that guy. jaw dropper, that was

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  9. The lead-up to Judgement Day 2000 had those B&W videos with the two little girls in them, saying "He's coming." IIRC, the general consensus was that it had something to do with Undertaker, but we we're sure exactly what. And it turned out to be...


    Nothing really. Just them announcing "He's here" during the Iron Man match. Odd choice since Bikertaker wasn't exactly played as supposedly scary like his previous incarnation.

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  10. Yeah, the rumor was that Jericho would be called Excalibur or "The Millennium Man".

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  11. Most people thought his back was seriously fucked up and he would never come back. There were all kinds of "news and rumor" sites posting ridiculous made-up garbage back then.

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  12. Hogan's turn at Bash of the Beach -- Everyone from Yokozuna to Bret Hart was rumored to be the "third man". But I think Hogan's name was atleast bandied about.


    - Foley "retiring" at No Way Out 2000 -- I really don't remember it being a big deal. Other than people saying it "made" Triple H.




    - Undertaker returning at Judgment Day 2000 -- I think pretty much everyone suspected it would be him. Many people were wishing he would retire.

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  13. NJPWJack: Caldwell's live-blogging the G1 Climax finals here. As I'm writing this it's Tanahashi v. Shibata for a berth in the finals.

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  14. Oddly, I never heard about Bret leaving (despite living only 100 miles or so from Calgary) until after it happened, and I was confused as FUCK on the next RAW. I wasn't an internet-savvy fan by that time (I didn't get the internet in my house for a year or so).

    Jericho's debut was basically set in motion, but it was pretty suspenseful as we weren't SURE sure until you saw his name on the Titantron, which is why the markout was so big- anticipation plus "are they really going to do this?".
    Bischoff's debut shocked the FUCK out of me when I saw him walk up and talk to Booker T on RAW. I don't remember seeing rumors pop up online about it beforehand, and I'm pretty sure I was checking the net all the time around then.

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  15. I was definitely on the net in 2002. A bunch of fellow smarks and I were in a chatroom while Raw was live, and all of a sudden the conversation changed to "IS THAT FUCKING BISCHOFF!?!?! WHAT!!!"

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  16. I never marked out harder than when X Pac showed up on Raw. Which is kind of insane to think about.

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  17. Oh, now that should be good.

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  18. Yeah I don't remember Bischoff being talked about online then at all, I think Scott is either wrong or knew something we didn't.

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  19. That was huge, I was literally out of my seat.

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  20. My least favorite surprise ever: Jericho announcing a mystery partner to go up against Edge and Christian for the titles.... and its Benoit, who he'd been teaming with anyway.

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  21. As I remember it:
    We knew that Bret was leaving.
    I never paid any attention to WCW so I can't remember the Hogan deal.
    Foley's retirement wasn't really a surprise because his first book came out and he talked about retiring sooner than later. Everyone was pissy because they figured it wouldn't last, but it more or less did. That was definitely the end of his active career.
    Jericho winning the belts was a shock.
    Everyone knew that Jericho was debuting, and all but certain the countdown was him. There were lots of rumours that he`d be X-Caliber and head up a new DX and whatnot. We all knew that he was coming.
    I don`t remember this particular Undertaker return in any meaningful way.
    Bischoff was a pretty tightly held surprise.
    At first everyone was pretty sure that Shawn would be back and there were lots of timelines going around (expected back by SS). As time went by it was more or less accepted that he was done, but every so often a return rumour would pop up. I remember talking to a friend at the time about how weird it was the Montreal was basically the end of both men`s careers.

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  22. Big Show's debut coming up from under the ring during the Austin/Vince cage match was a big surprise to me.

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  23. Trying to parse: Are you comparing Magnum's personality with Shawn's?

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  24. Sorry for the THREADJACK Scott ol' bean, but I would like apologize... like Jesse Jackson in South Park.


    Superman TAS is very good.


    Its just the first season full of origins that are a drag. Season 2 is very very good.


    Standout eps:


    Mr. Myztylplk (sic)
    Live Wire/Parasite team up
    Brainiac returning
    Batman/Superman team up.

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  25. The WWF hotline was openly telling people that Bret was leaving.



    Everyone knew Jericho had left WCW and was going to debut in the WWF, but there were only rumors as to how. The common wisdom was that he was behind the countdown clock, but IIRC, we all thought he was going to be called Millenium Man Chris Jericho; no one had heard the name Y2J as a rumor. This was also further proof that if you want a hot crowd, you go to Chicago.



    Undertaker's return was known, especially with the creepy little kids vignette ("He's Here!"), but no one knew we were going to get BikerTaker.

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  26. I managed to correctly guess how the matches leading to Jericho becoming Undisputed Champion went (though I'd have to see if I could find the post using archive.org as the forum I posted it on doesn't exist anymore). I figured it wouldn't be Rock/Austin in the final because they would sell far more PPVs if that was an announced match. Jericho winning I guessed because I had read a TV Guide article a couple of months before where Vince said over the next few months, we'd see Jericho trying to establish himself at the same level as The Rock and Austin.

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  27. I agree. I love watching that debut on YouTube. The pop when his name showed up on the Tron was epic.

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  28. I seem to recall some very mild chatter about a slight possibility that someone might be thinking about eventually seeing if he would pretty please with sugar on top come in and quite possibly appear on television.


    In other words, a whisper of a rumor. And I think it was a couple of months before his debut, but I can't be certain.

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  29. Savio... that was a let-down of comedic proportion.

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  30. No one thought they would do Rock v. Austin, because if they were going to do Rock v. Austin, they would advertise Rock v. Austin. The consensus was the Jericho v. Austin match a week before RAW was an attempt to swerve people.


    Bischoff returning was absolutely a surprise, people say WWE blew it because of that, and because they immediately had Bischoff and Vince come out and hug.

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  31. The Radicalz debut was a memorable one for me. Jericho's debut was classic because it didn't need to be a swerve or shock, just deliver the satisfying result ppl wanted to see.

    Taker's return at JD2k was more of just a groan for me. More schmoz run ins to interrupt a classic match unneccessarily.

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  32. I remember thinking they would have Foley win the title with Rock's help to set up a triple threat at Wrestlemani 2000. I was glad they had HHH go over and come out of it looking stronger, but I never really thought Mick would stay gone or anything

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  33. I checked out Survivor Series 98 because I thought Shawn was the mystery guy. Gillberg was a disappointment but at least it fit the story.

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  34. It's pretty good, I think it gets a bit overshadowed by how awesome Justice League became after the first season.

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  35. I think one of the things that really sold the change over to BikerTaker was the way he changed up his chokeslam. Only using one arm, and the height he'd get on some of the smaller guys really made the character different then the classic Deadman.

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  36. No. Everyone thought Shawn was DONE, which is why he persisted as an onscreen character for four years without ever actually wrestling. Nobody guessed he'd have the career he wound up having.

    If I'm not mistaken, they made Magnum an interviewer or guest commentator or whatever once he was forced into retirement, so that's the similarity.

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  37. I kind of feel the same way about Montreal. Neither guy had much success — Shawn at least until 2002 — after that night. Two of the top guys in the business essentially peaked that night.

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  38. Back in the early days of the internet I remember watching a pre-debut interview with Jericho and being super bummed that he wasn't going to be able to use the name Jericho (he was working us!). So when he debuted, and WAS jericho, it was an awesome little surprise.

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  39. Remember that one to Shane? over the top rope?

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  40. How about Jericho at this year's Rumble? What a surprise!

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  41. I really have much love for The Batman show, The Superman show, and even Batman Beyond.

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  42. It wasn't - they had him do a backstage skit BEFORE Vince called him out. That's what ruined the 'Eric as GM' reveal; he'd already been in a stupid 'shake my hand' segment.

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  43. That segment with Booker T was really stupid in retrospect, completely undercutting the 'Eric as GM' pop. God knows what they were thinking.

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  44. It made him look legit super strong, which kudos to guys like Shane and X-Pac for getting the timing so well...they never made it look like they were assisting.

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  45. Yeah, I totally disagree with the Bischoff one. I've been one of those obsessive IWC people since 1999. I follow everything that goes on via the internet and I don't remember hearing a peep about Bischoff's debut. When he showed up in that backstage skit and shook hands with Booker T, my whole goddamn head fell off.

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  46. I remember I had stopped watching wcw for a month or two and then turned it on during the last ever epispde. Totally crazy

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  47. Yeah it took me a couple years to know better. But between 98-2000 I probably clicked on 50+ Wrestlezone links with titles like "major star set to debut next week. HBK next month?"



    Even 15 years ago I was a moron.

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  48. Bischoff being on RAW itself was the surprise, not him being the GM once he was introduced backstage.


    Booker T was doing an interview and Bischoff walked by and said hi Booker and he said tell me I didn't just see that

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  49. And WWE released pictures of him in Europe on the same day. They went all out with that one.

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  50. Can't really say that Jericho's Undisputed title win came from out of nowhere. I use to go to Chris Jericho's chat room back in the day (Jerichat), and a few of the guys would mention that Jericho was going to win both titles. One guy didn't buy it and he said that he would leave the chat room forever if Jericho would win. He ended up leaving the chat room as a result. That guy actually introduced me to Scott Keith and his rants in early 2002. So if you're reading this, MOLSON, I love you, man!!

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  51. Trish's heel turn at Mania 20 also surprised me

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  52. I remember calling it because DX was cool with the Outlaws and los Boricuas at the time.

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  53. Yep. Really wish they do that more often. Both keep Cena off TV awhile and put effort into keeping secrets.

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  54. Love that show. My favorite eps are the Toyman origin which is probably the creepiest thing I've seen in a mainstream American cartoon, the one where Superman subs for Bruce as Batman, the one where the criminal figures out Superman is Clark Kent right before the switch is flipped on the electric chair, and the one with the alternate Earth where Superman is helping Lex rule the world.

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  55. The thing about Jericho's debut was that everyone knew it was coming, but nobody thought it would be that big. Instead of being a throwaway segment on someone like Savio Vega, it interupted the freakin' Rock.

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  56. YankeesHoganTripleHFanAugust 11, 2013 at 1:35 PM

    I was surprised when Beniot jobbed to a lat pulldown machine. Then again considering he had just won a handicap match against Nancy and Daniel Beniot I he must have been tired.

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  57. Yankees fan???


    HOGAN FAN?!?


    HHH FAN??!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?


    Trying too hard to troll


    -________________________-

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  58. Your_Favourite_AssholeAugust 11, 2013 at 3:03 PM

    'So if you're reading this, MOLSON, I love you, man!!'


    ...it's a can of beer, brah, it cant read


    go home lobster head, youre drunk

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  59. Your_Favourite_AssholeAugust 11, 2013 at 3:04 PM

    whatamaneuver!

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  60. Take the time to read Bischoff's book. He mentions everyone catching wind of his WWE deal, and how he begged Vince to keep strict kayfabe on it. He was still lead down the wrong hallway to get to gorilla on the night he debuted, though.

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  61. YankeesHoganTripleHFanAugust 11, 2013 at 3:10 PM

    Your new to the blog aren't you?

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  62. -Hogan's turn was discussed in detail before it happened. The only "surprise" involved was that he actually went through with it. Depending on who you believe, Sting or Luger was plan B.

    -Everyone with an internet connection in the fall of 1997 knew that Bret was leaving the WWF, and what the reason behind it was. A lot of people were speculating that the WWF was about to downsize significantly and perhaps even become a regional promotion again because of money issues (which is kind of what ended up happening between Bret's departure and WM14 anyway).

    -There was enough buzz about Shawn opening his school in 1999 that people figured his career was done, but EVERYONE was convinced of it after his major faux pas the night after WM17.

    -People on The Newsgroup Of Eternal Shame figured out when the "countdown" would end almost to the minute, and Jericho had run his mouth enough that it was known he would be jumping.

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  63. didn't hear anything myself and I was pretty obsessive about hitting the internet news sites back then. Bischofff in his book (not that he doesn't lie and omit stuff as well) says no one knew and the WCW guys were shocked when he walked in.

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  64. and UT returning. A lose/lose for everyone.

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  65. I don't remember that in his book. I remember him going on about how secretive it was. I just moved and lots of stuff still in boxes. I'll have to reread that part.

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  66. I wasn't on the internet for Hogan's heel turn but is important to remember how few people were on the internet at that point. For 99% of the fans it was a huge shock.


    Everyone on the internet (which had exploded for wrestling by that point, porn and wrestling were the main drivers of the internet at that point) knew about Bret.


    I know I thought Shawn was done. I heard the periodic rumors of his return but by late 99 I figured he was retired forever, which was why I HAD to order Summerslam 2002 to see his return. I wasn't expecting him to comeback for good either.


    No surprise for Jericho, just a great payoff. Everyone knew the countdown was him.


    Everyone I talked to thought Foley was jobbing his way into retirement. I hoped against hope, but I knew he was retiring.


    Jericho winning the belt was a surprise but not a huge one. Maybe I was naive due to my Jericho markdom, but I thought any of the 4 might win it.


    I knew it was UT and was not happy about it. Little did I know that I would be missing the days of sucky :"fight the next big guy" UT or satanic UT compared to the suckitude that was Underbiker. It still amazes me how much he improved in the ring after how god awful he was as the Underbiker. Not many wrestlers other than him and DDP ever got better at that age.

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  67. Right! Wasn't the rumour that he was going to be called "Excalibur", or something, because of a character in a video game at the time?

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  68. Paraphrasing, Bischoff called Vince and said, "Too many people are asking me about this. Please don't tell anyone who doesn't need to know. In fact, I'll even book my own flight. As soon as someone sees my name on your travel arrangements, the cat will really be let out of the bag."

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  69. Oh goodness, the nWo heat would have been dead on the spot if Luger was the third man

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  70. I was reading some older Keller and he reported Y2Js debut was originally scheduled to be a promo with Road Dogg. Lets thank god that didn't happen.

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  71. I think it was the final Raw before the Undisputed Title tournament where the show ended with Rock and Austin standing tall but Jericho was rolling around on the ground like a jobber. I kinda figured Jericho would win (according to the 'whoever jobs on Raw wins at the PPV' rule) but it still surprised me when it happened.

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  72. I have no idea why I thought that "countdown to the millennium" clock was actually counting down to the year 2000.

    Imagine my surprise while watching Sunday night heat in AUGUST and learning that the clock was going to expire the next night on Raw.

    So long story short, yes, I was very surprised when Chris Jericho debuted.

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  73. Oh, okay. "persona non grata" actually means "unwelcome", which I could see for Shawn given his behavior but never heard applied to Magnum before.

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  74. The faux pas was the week before Wrestlemania.

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  75. The story I recall is that Shawn was pulled from his appearance at WM17, showed up for Raw the next night pilled to the gills, and was confronted by Hunter, who (justifiably) stooged him out to the office.

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  76. Nope.


    He was cut from RAW due to timing issues, where he was pilled out.


    He then showed up to Smackdown again, clearly pilled out, and was sent home. This is when his estrangement from HHH began.

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  77. Funny story about Taker's Return, I was at that PPV, and I stepped out for a smoke during/before Heat and saw Taker walking around outside (the smoking area was out close to the loading docks, where I assume the talent used as an entrance), which totally ruined the surprise.

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  78. I thought it also meant "completely absent".

    I was wrong.

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  79. And then they had Rock shit on him

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  80. It was an American wrestling legend being replaced by a Caribbean legend. How could that be a letdown?

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  81. They ended up with a crappy interview segment at Summerslam instead.

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  82. Ain't no thing. I blame all them furriners bringin' in their dam furrin words instead of just talkin' English like civilized folk.

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  83. I was sure the belt was going on Austin at Vengeance 2001 to start a set up for Austin-HHH at Wrestlemania. Jericho's win was a pretty big surprise, especially putting him over both Rock & Austin the same night (and over both again at Rumble and No way Out). He was on his way. That HHH is one swell guy

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  84. I don't know... Luger plays a pretty good ratfuck heel when motivated. But I would concur that the nWo never would have been as big a deal w/o Hogan.

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