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QOTD - August 21st, 2013

Greetings, sweetiepeeties.

Today's question comes from BoDHoF'er, Jobber123.

Hey cal,
Did you see cena is #1 the pwi 500 again? I think you should put up a thread with a link to the list so we can discuss. I think it should have been punk. I know the pwi 500 isn't what it once was but I still love it. You agree with cena being #1? I love cena but if we're going august to August its gotta be punk yeah?
Jobber123

Couldn't find a list of the current PWI list, so anyone in the comments section who has it, feel free to throw it up for us. 

As for Cena being number one, well, PWI is via kayfabe, right? He won the Rumble, beat The Rock in the main event of WM to win the WWE championship, defeated all on-comers, had a MOTYC with Punk. Speaking of which, once he lost the title, he just kept losing. 

How say you?

Tune in to scrublife.wordpress.com to get Caliber's recap/reviews of Breaking Bad, and the season finale of True Blood.

Comments

  1. I haven't seen the full list anywhere on the 'net yet. Here's the Top 10 though:

    1. John Cena
    2. C.M. Punk
    3. Hiroshi Tanahashi
    4. Bully Ray
    5. Kazuchika Okada
    6. Sheamus
    7. Jeff Hardy
    8. Alberto Del Rio
    9. Dolph Ziggler
    10. Kevin Steen

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  2. I find it really interesting that tanahasi came in 3rd. Hes been so great that even I've seen like 8 of his matches due to online buzz. Anyone know what the formula is they use to do the ranking. Kayfabe record is a big part I think but theres definite smark elements too. I love the pwi 500 even though I know its lost some luster.

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  3. Curious to see where DB ranks

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  4. Sheamus in the top 10 doesn't seem correct at all, unless they're counting his WHC stint last year, which I believe ended in October. Everything else seems fine, however.

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  5. Here's the list in alphabetical order. Sorry for the small print image, it was the best I could find for now.


    http://i.imgur.com/xgaWqq1.png

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  6. People care about the PWI Top 500?

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  7. Using "Smark" Criteria, Punk has been in the better matches in the last 12 months, but only by a hair. Furthermore, their paths intersected a couple of times to great results, namely what I consider a ****3/4 match at Night of Champions, and a ***** match on Raw in February.

    Promo-wise is where to me, CM Punk pulls away. Whether he was giving the verbal jabs to the rock, talking up how his title reign meant more because of the circumstances, demanding respect, or begging lesnar to come at him, Punk's promos were consistently good-great.
    So I'd switch the top 2.

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  8. I think its amazing sheamus is ranked above Daniel bryan. Like what has he even done since jobbing to big show in October?

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  9. Ah, PWI. That damn magazine confused the shit out of me when I first entered into the smark phase of my wrestling fandom. I used to go into threads back in 2005 and try to start kayfabe discussions, making a complete fool of myself in the process. Like, "What do you mean John Cena is a bad worker? HE JUST BEAT JERICHO AT SUMMERSLAM WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT."

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  10. Punk's genius is demonstrated by his work against the Rock. By the end of two months or so, there was enough vitriol in his promos that it felt that these were two bitter rivals which had faced off for years.

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  11. Yeah I have no problem with cena being ranked really high but cm punk turned heel right when this "year" started and has been a fucking runaway train ever since. Just amazing. Two great matches with cena, going over ryback, worked two ppvs with rock, the undertaker feud/match.THe only thing I can think of is he lost a bit by taking a bit of time back, but he did have amazing Jericho match right after. I'd like to hear from some people who think tanahashi should be #1 because he had a great year too

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  12. It'd judged by within the time span between Septemer-August next year, so while Punk hasn't had a great year this year, I'm sure it was all his accomplishments at the end of the year last year that got him the number 2 spot.


    I kinda forget exactly what PWI 500 takes into account but I'm sure these would be heavy factors: amount of wins, number of matches wrestled, high profile matches and any accomplishments/titles won.

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  13. There's always weird stuff on these. For example, Camacho is 40 spots higher than Akira Tozawa??

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  14. I don't care about it as such as I stopped buying the magazine 15 years ago, but I still like how it keeps kayfabe and I'm sure Apter has a database of all the matches every wrestler has wrestled to see where they rank up, which I would love to get my hands on. Plus I'm sure there's a lot of wrestlers that are marks for the 500 rankings and consider it an honour to be ranked up there.

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  15. Well I also find it weird that dean ambrose is #26 while wade Barrett is #21. Ambrose has gone over name on the roster and arguably was in the 2012 Moty. They must put lots of weight on the ic title.

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  16. YankeesHoganTripleHFanAugust 21, 2013 at 10:32 AM

    I would have voted for Dean Malenko

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  17. i disagree on the Jericho point. It's almost like they're *too* similar in style to have like a real fantastic match. It's weird.

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  18. Lol that was the best. He did have a great year and held the us title for a long time when that was a big deal but...

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  19. I do. Its fucking great

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  20. Exactly. I'd love to see his ranking process

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  21. Yeah I thought the matches last year were little short of great but I think the match at payback was the best one they've had.

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  22. I know I can't be the only one ready to fight apter over Miz getting 31 while Christopher Daniels is 45.

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  23. PWI has always been a weird mix of workrate and kayfabe, so it makes sense that Cena is No. 1 for triumphing in his 'redemption' storyline.

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  24. He actually came in at #11

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  25. What the hell is Curtis Axel doing in there at 47? I'm guessing numbers 47-500 are all wastemen

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  26. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 10:49 AM

    I buy it every year, just to keep up on all the small-time indy guys.

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  27. I don't get that either, would love to hear the thoughts of the guys that put this together

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  28. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 10:50 AM

    I don't think Apter is with PWI anymore, and hasn't been for quite a whole now.

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  29. Actually it's July-June

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  30. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 10:53 AM

    According to another thread I read about this, Sheamus has by far the most wins of any wrestler in 2013. Add that to the fact that Bryan was a tag guy for most of the past year (singles guys always get ranked higher) and I can kind of see it.

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  31. Just a note, this list is for the time frame of July 2012-June 2013 according to their webpage.

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  32. So this list is for July 12-June 13? Still, Cena then at #1? I dunno...

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  33. Yea, it makes more sense for Sheamus' placement, but not Cena being over Punk who held the title for at least half that time frame.

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  34. Caliber_Winfield_The_3rdAugust 21, 2013 at 11:00 AM

    I always thought it was pointless to make the list bigger than 100. I mean, is being the 153rd best wrestler any different than being 432?

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  35. Caliber_Winfield_The_3rdAugust 21, 2013 at 11:01 AM

    I remember being shocked that the Brandy girl who's columns I always use to read in 1997 was never real. I use to imagine her as being very good looking, with long brunette hair, and a bit of an attitude.

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  36. No room on the list of 500 for Green Ant or Fire Ant? They both had a bunch of great matches in Chikara and the Wrestling Is . . . promotions

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  37. Probably for the Indy guys. Although I bet its just cool for them to make the list

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  38. Its cool reward for them and its a cool way to follow the rise of guys you don't know. I love seeing names on the list and going on YouTube and checking them out

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  39. Say what????? That's crazy

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  40. OK then I guess i can see that. I actually like sheamus and think he's a fantastic worker so I'm fine with both any push he gets and his ranking.

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  41. I remember being shocked that Eddie Ellner actually was real.

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  42. Queen brandi's mailbag? Where she would just shit on the people writing in? That was great, sad to know she was just a gimmick.

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  43. I bet somehow those "wins" over hhh and cena artificially inflated his score. Plus look how high Barrett is, the ic title must be worth a lot in the rankings.

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  44. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 11:20 AM

    Yeah, I want to say he left around the time that the WWF became WWE.

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  45. CANT FIND PUNK ON THE LIST

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  46. He's under the P's
    He came in #2

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  47. My friend that owns the local indy has been on the list a couple of times and uses it as a selling point for his company... idk how much good it does but it proves your point that it is a big deal to them and is worth it for that reason.

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  48. So what's your take on Adam Cole at 55. Too high or too low?

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  49. Caliber_Winfield_The_3rdAugust 21, 2013 at 11:29 AM

    I prefer you as Lobster Head

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  50. Its gotta be nice to get some national recognition and be considered one of the best guys working. I bet its a real nice ego boost to see the guys on TV your ahead of on the list too.

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  51. Eddie Ellner is real!?!?!?!

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  52. See I would be insulted if someone I was ahead of on the list was on TV... "WTF is he on TV when I ranked 18 places with him and I still have to work at 7-11 to make ends meet?!?!?!?!?!?"

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  53. Mickey whipwreck still going strong at 262!!! Love it

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  54. Yeah thats gotta sting. In the opposite I wonder if sin cara is going to be pissed next year when the new guy playing mistico and the new guy playing sin cara are both ranked above him?

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  55. Yeah he's a real dude. http://www.layogamagazine.com/issue43/departments/eddie_ellner.htm

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  56. "Brandi" was a horrible replacement for Eddie Ellner, whose columns were the only reason I bought the Apter mags after a while. A heel writer in the vein of Jesse Ventura - giving certain faces their due when he liked them - was just a great inclusion. Sometimes I miss that aspect of my markdom, being able to pick up and read PWI and not be so cynical about what I was reading.


    I might go find a copy of the new PWI 500 for old times' sake.

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  57. Also 20 seems way too high for kofi Kingston and 22 seems low for KENTA but I only follow Japanese wrestling through the observer so I might be wrong. And the only reason Austin Aries and Bobby Roode aren't top 10 is because TNA booking is dog shit

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  58. Roode and Aires definitely deserve to be above Hardy, Ziggler and maybe Del Rio. They had a great year.

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  59. I agree but TNA fucked up their push. Even still aries is 12th so that's cool

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  60. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 11:48 AM

    Eh, sounds about right. Maybe a wee bit too high. I think Kevin Steen at #10 is too low, he should have been in the top 5.

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  61. Caliber_Winfield_The_3rdAugust 21, 2013 at 11:49 AM

    I use to LOVE PWI when I was a teenager. It was before I had the internet, so I loved reading about ECW, and seeing the photos. I also liked the rankings in the back, and hearing stories about how Hollywood Hogan called PWI to offer them the chance to change the WCW rankings to nWo.

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  62. Del Rio should be higher than those guys though. He's been a wwe main event guy that whole year having good matches and working face and heel. Plus kayfabe wise he went over big show

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  63. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 11:50 AM

    20 is WAY too high for Kofi. He should be somewhere around 120, especially on a (mostly) kayfabe list.

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  64. I agree on Steen. Maybe not top 5 but he should move up a few spots based off being the man in the #3 (maybe even #2) promotion

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  65. I thought I read that she was real.

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  66. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 11:56 AM

    I'd call it the #2 promotion, because fuck TNA. At least ROH guys get paid on time. And Steen basically dominated ROH, and put on constant ****+ matches on PPV, even if no one saw them. Assuming Tanahashi is as good as everyone says he is (I don't do puro), I'd have him at #4.

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  67. Stranger in the AlpsAugust 21, 2013 at 12:05 PM

    I haven't picked up an edition of PWI in a very long time, but when I did, I had a shitload of them. My favorite part were the match results in the back of the mag. The PWI 500 was another favorite of mine, along with the awards edition. I stopped picking them up sometime in the 90s, and then smarkdom came calling, and I couldn't wrap my head around that mag anymore. It was like watching The Dukes of Hazzard as a kid, and then trying to watch it again as an adult, and wondering what the hell I was thinking.

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  68. 120? Tag Champ, IC Champ, US Champ all within the ranking period is worth a lot in PWI. You're basically saying he should be down there with the NXT guys.

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  69. I know that Soldier Ant and Fire Ant don't get ranked because they work in other companies without the mask and PWI doesn't want to give someone 2 spots. Heck they even shattered TNA kayfabe and lumped Joe Park and Abyss together to avoid it.


    Not sure about why Green Ant didn't make it, unless he has an alter ego elsewhere I don't know about.

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  70. Hmm I did not know that, never found anything about their other identities online. All I know is Green Ant and Fire are two of the best workers I've ever seen, and Soldier is a great worker as well.

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  71. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 12:23 PM

    He's basically a jobber.

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  72. You're that upset over a fake list about a fake sport?

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  73. Kevin Steen, Jeff Hardy, and Dolph Ziggler over Daniel Bryan?

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  74. Kayfabe, then they google "popular japanese wrestlers" and use those.

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  75. All the titleholders in WWE except the WWE Champion job all the time. They still win gold though and that's what matters here.

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  76. Ziggler had the briefcase, and Hardy is still one of the bigger and more over stars in TNA, so I can see both. Can't say anything about Steen, since I haven't watched ROH in years.

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  77. I see Soldier on there under his other name. Not sure if it's kosher to just reveal it.


    Fire Ant's alter ego in other indies is absent though, so he just flat out went unranked. That sucks.

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  78. For kayfabe success from July 1st 2012 through June 30th 2013, yes.

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  79. I love Sheamus the worker, his character is AWFUL.

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  80. I can't see Hardy or Steen.

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  81. Man, I do not think Steen put on that many good matches.

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  82. I hate to say this because I'm a Jericho mark but I think because he looks so physically similar that it's hard to acknowledge his workrate has dropped off.

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  83. Bull Ray over Okada?

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  84. Ruckus over Tozawa.

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  85. Caliber_Winfield_The_3rdAugust 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM

    I remember as a kid watching the 1966 Batman TV show, and feeling like that shit was a DRAMA. Watching it now, man, it's enjoyable on a whole 'nother level, but certainly not in the "this is flat out, quality programming" like when I was a kid. See also, Power Rangers. Fuck is that terrible.

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  86. That's a fucking crime is what that is.

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  87. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 1:13 PM

    "Weighing in at a street value of over $23 million..."

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  88. Yeah I mean that's the problem with being a full time part timer. You know he doesn't have the drive to be the best anymore, so watching him has unfortunately kind of turned into a nostalgia act because we know he's never going to figure into their plans long-term.

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  89. I guess in PWI's bizarro world being the TNA champion holds more importance than being voted the MVP of Japanese professional wrestling and winner of the G1.

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  90. If the people who made this list could pick Okada out of a lineup I'll eat a bee hive.

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  91. Yeah, I'd make a snarky joke about the Rock but I don't feel like getting flamed. I don't have a problem if the nostalgia act isn't the focus of the show and makes an effort instead of mailing it in (okay, one dig at the Rock). I personally hopes the WWE uses Wrestlemania XXX to push a new generation of stars over old generation of stars (Punk over Rock, Bryan over HHH, maybe Cena over Taker through nefarious means to turn Cena heel).

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  92. I thought putting abyss at 83 was rough since he's been fantastic this year

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  93. I'm not upset, just a figure of speech. But as a fan its fun to debate the list

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  94. I'll be second in line behind you.

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  95. Bryan was in a tag team which hurts his rating. He is still 11 though. Bully ray is the guy in TNA,ssame with Steen in roh.

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  96. I don't think it's reasonable to threaten physical violence.

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  97. He still was the guy in ROH so you know that's getting him in the top 10

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  98. He had a great TV match against rvd and a great ppv match against punk. If anything I thought he was better than during his last short run

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  99. Yeah, and he was putting people over. Like I said, he's still a serviceable/very good worker but he's not the guy he was when he was wrestling full time.

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  100. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 1:37 PM

    Also, how the hell did QT Marshall rank that high? Not only his he a terrible worker, but his win-loss record was abysmal, and he didn't beat anyone noteworthy that I can think of. His biggest victory was over TaDarius Thomas, for fuck's sake.

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  101. I have an acquaintance that's an announcer/writer for a couple Indy's. Basically he takes guys who work with/for him and writes a couple sentences about them. He mails that information into PWI. If they like what they see, they assign said guy a number and boom- he's on the list. So as someone alluded to in earlier comments- #153 really isn't that different from 444.

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  102. An American magazine aimed towards a American fans of a fake sport gives the American fake sports organization more importance than the non-American fake sport?

    Shocking.

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  103. Ok, I'll admit that it's pretty cool for indy guys, and if you're a serious fan it can help you find the indy wrestlers worth keeping an eye out for.

    But at the other end of the list - who really cares if Cena or Punk is #1? If you enjoy Punk more (which I do), and think overall Punk had a better year, you don't need an outdated magazine like PWI to validate your feelings.

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  104. Left over from when the IC title actually meant something.

    I think that's part of the problem of something like PWI. it still acts like the IC title means something, even though WWE stopped acting like it did years ago.

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  105. LoL.



    I was about to say "Surrre, Hogan really called you." But then Hogan is the guy who got so pissed off at the Wrestling Obserer that he ripped up a copy on national TV, and I can actually kind of pick him calling Apter to complain.

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  106. I think it's the IC title. They're still pretending that it actually means something.

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  107. Im very drunk and just worked a 16 hour ER shift. Ive read 0 comments so far but feel they'd just piss me off...YES John Cenas character sucks but anyone who argues that he wasn't the top guy in Wwe this year is someone I will dub a "smart mark." A "smart mark" is a smart fan who leans so far to the "smart" side of things they lose ALL objectivity. Its like the guys who make up starts to try and disprove LeBron isn't the best player in earth. Punk is Durant to Cenas LBJ.

    There is ZERO, in a kayfabe or storyline sense, that Cena was the top guy this year. I'm the biggest fucking Punk fan out there but come on. Anyone who downvotes this without an objective rationale reply will just prove my point....That there's no objective reason to say Cenas not #1

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  108. I started picking up PWI with the 1987 achievement awards edition. I kept reading through high school, maybe even some into college. Then I finally got a girlfriend... money started getting redirected...

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  109. very weird, Chikara was always considered one of the top indies in the US in the same breath as ROH and Dragon's Gate USA I though.

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  110. Its a mix of kayfabe and real talent. Punk had the wwe title for 7 months and did lots and lots of heavy lifting, and cena missed like 6 weeks of time too. Plus Hiroshi tanahashi has been dominating the observer news for his work in NJPW. Its much much closer than you're acting like

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  111. Especially when some of the better chikra guys aren't even on the list

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  112. Was discounting NJPW, simply to the fact because I'm ignorant to it. .. don't watch. I think Punk was the clear cut 2, but just not 1.

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  113. I lost part of my post. I hate mobile disqus. Cm punk carried the wwe post heel turn. He had amazing match, after amazing match and was featured heavily on every TV show. Meanwhile cena missed a bunch of time. Pwi criteria is partially kayfabe and punk had tons of successful title defenses and won lots of matches including beating ryback. So I was suprised it was cena. Although I'd say cena should have at least been 3rd. And I can live with him at 1

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  114. Well its supposed to be an all encompassing list but I don't know if any Japanese or Mexican guys have ever been #1. I know mystico and dos caras Jr were both top 10 in the mid 00's but I don't even think misawa ever got #1

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  115. BTW the only Japanese stuff I ever watch is when meltzer goes extra nuts about something AND I can find it on YouTube

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  116. I feel like this is what would happen if the wwe ever brought back the jobber show so many of us pine for

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  117. Yea man...ive see mm 3 japan matches in my life and theyre all the ones Scott or Meltzer have raved about.

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  118. In a way I like how pwi ignores the wwes atrocious booking of title holders since, really, it should be a big deal.

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  119. Punk had an awesome year and was a workhorse all year. I don't know when the cutoff for this last is but Cena beat Henry, Rock, Ryback, and won the Rumble. Throw in the non kayfabe stuff likr the charity work and shit and I gotta go with him as a definitive 1.

    I don t know if youre an NBA fan but I really see it as a LBJ and Durant comparison..both firmly ahead of the pack but LBJ on a different level.

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  120. I've been buying (or getting my parents to buy) the NBA league pass since 1997. I currently have dozen pairs of sneakers all purchased because of a players affiliation, and the first thing I ever put on my wall was the reign man poster. At my parents house there are photos of me on my high school ball team with the numbers 8 and 31 shaved into my head because I thought I was emulating Nick van exel and Steph maurbury every time I took the court. I watched the summer league on NBA TV. I live in the greatest city in America (SD) and if I could move to city with an nba team for work I'd do it in a second so I could get season tickets. I am an NBA fan.

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  121. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 4:58 PM

    I think he might have hit #2 back in the 90's.

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  122. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 5:18 PM

    At one point he was the ROH, PWG, and 2CW champ. That alone should earn him a spot in the top 5.

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  123. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 5:22 PM

    I can think of 3 matches off the top of my head that I gave **** or better, and that's just between October and May. But hey, to each his own...

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  124. I'd say he should be ahead of ziggler (who I like but hes way too high), hardy (who you know I'm a bigger fan of than most), and sheamus. I can't say he's ahead of punk, cena, or delrio. Adr is the questionable one but he's had the whc most of the time, worked both sides of the aisle in the main event, and kayfabe beat big show. Bully ray is going to be ranked higher just because TNA has the spike deal so hes on the bigger platform. Based off what I've read in the observer the NJPW stuff is red hot and tanahashi is the dude so 7 sounds about right to me.

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  125. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryAugust 21, 2013 at 5:53 PM

    He's definitely not ahead of Cena or Punk. Even if Tanahashi isn't that good he's the #1 guy in Japan, so #3 is right on, I'd say. Del Rio at #4 and Steen at #5 I can live with, but I'd say he should be ranked above anyone else. And as much as it pains me to say this, I'd have Hardy at #6, above Bubba.

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  126. Happy to see my boy John McChesney at #291. Where the F is Don Roid?

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