Punk and Lesner stole the show. Bryan and Cena almost stole it back. It took 7 years, two DX reunions, another torn quad, two Undertaker matches at Wrestlemania and way to much time wearing a suit instead of wrestling but Triple H is finally a heel again, just like all the whiny little brats on the blog wanted him to be. Welcome home Hunter. I've missed you.
(YankeesHoganTRIPLEHFAN!!!)
I haven't seen the show yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Hunter as a heel is something that's long over due, but in a sense he was a heel back in 2011 when he interjected himself in the Summer of Punk. It still amazes me that Punk's "pipebomb" speech led to HHH vs Nash in a ladder match. Anyway, if Orton & HHH reform Evolution than I'm all for it. That'd be awesome.
I have a question for the people, do you want a review of the SummerSlam main events from me? Jobber asked for them, but if he's the only one then I'll just watch the show and let him know, I won't bother with a whole post. So, would you guys like to know what I thought? Let me know. Thanks.
Im more interested to hear what your thoughts were on the parts that sucked like the opener, lol
ReplyDeleteThe last thing they needed was the return of heel HHH.
ReplyDeleteBut kudos to Poochie for swiping all the heat of the main event to himself. 2 incredible matches, Orton back as champ and we have to focus on a part timer who hasn't drawn a dime in years.
Yes please on the reviews.
ReplyDeleteDoes no one else remember Raw being a pile of shit while Evolution were around last time?
ReplyDeleteA few thought on lat night
ReplyDelete- Yea, it was awesome to see Bryan cleanly beat Cena, but I think wrestlers first title reigns should be a huge deal. Have HHH screw Bryan earlier vs Cena, then have Orton beat Cena with HHHs assistance. This lets Orton leave as champ, builds to Orton vs Bryan and then eventually Bryan vs Cena again. This leads to a huge moment when Bryan finally gets a lengthy title reign.
- Im cool with a HHH/Orton led heel corporate stable as it sets up a heel group for Brysn to run through. My only hope is that Bryan goes over strong in the end and we dont get HHH as the focal point of the show again.
I wouldn't mind seeing a review.
ReplyDelete"Triple H is finally a heel again, just like all the whiny little brats on the blog wanted him to be."
ReplyDeletei dont remember anyone whining they wanted hhh to be heel. peeps were more concerned with him staying away from the main event scene
Is Scott not reviewing the show?
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the few times in the last couple of years where I paid for a pay-per-view and didn't feel like I had wasted money when it was over. The two main events delivered, the finale set up the next few months of storylines.
ReplyDeleteI don't mind the Triple H turn, as I was expecting something screwy to happen and never thought Daniel Bryan was going to walk out of the SummerSlam with the WWE Title, and at least he beat Cena clean. I will admit, however, that I kind of dozed off during the final match, woke up for the D-Bry win and celebration and kind of lost track of things until the pedigree. I'll watch it again when I get home from work to get a complete perspective...
No one wants to see heel hhh. No one wants to see face hhh. No one wants to see hhh.
ReplyDeleteI'm a life long wrestling fan and I have almost 7k comments on this board so you know I love it, but the last time this dickbag was a heel I literally had to stop watching wrestling for close to four years. I'm not excited by this
Only barely because it was such a pile of shit I abandoned the show you until post mania 21
ReplyDeleteHe will be reviewing the show today
ReplyDeleteYeah the op is an ass. No one wants to see huntor jizz himself for twenty minutes at the start of every raw or plod through 30 minute 2.5 star matches
ReplyDeleteYou should be the one to review raw
ReplyDeleteIf anyone cares, I'm gonna be doing a different kind of Raw review, at least for this week. As I explained it in the thread where Scott decided he was done doing them- and in an email to him- it's gonna be a kind of hybrid of a postgame, traditional inverted pyramid-style article and AV Club-style episode review. I hope someone's doing a more traditional, sequential Raw review- and I in fact told Scott what I'm doing would work in conjunction with that, rather than replacing it- since that's absolutely not what I'm doing.
ReplyDeleteCool man, I'll definitely check that out
ReplyDeleteSay what you will about Hunter, and I know at this board it's going to be overwhelmingly negative, for reasons both legitimate and at times specious. But the actual execution of the post-match stuff was flawless. I was watching with four other dudes and we'd specifically discussed the strong rumors of an HHH heel turn leading to an Orton cash-in. They did it anyway, and still got us. The timing was just perfect. It looked like, in so many other instances where the crowd gets hip to the storyline and they do something different as a result, we were going to get the happy Daniel Bryan ending after all...for JUST long enough for the swerve to work. I mean, they've practically spelled this out for weeks, and it still worked. Impressive stuff.
ReplyDelete(Oh, yeah, and both Punk/Brock and Bryan/Cena were classics. I'm not listening to any discussion to the contrary on either.)
I don't know how they're going to pay it off tonight, next month, for the next six months, and I share the concerns that it's going to lead to way too much McMahon/HHH stuff running roughshod over Raw. But the upside is they really, truly believe in Daniel Bryan and I think they correctly think the money with him is in the chase. So I'm cautiously optimistic. Then again, I don't despise HHH and am not dreading an expanded role for him as long as he (mostly) stays out of the ring.
There's a lot of good talk on the main events so I'd like to chime in with some praise for Cody Rhodes. As he walked to the ring I was saying to my buddy, "ths face turn is going to fall so flat", and then Cody proceeded to get the crowd solidly behind him, culminating in a big pop for his win.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question, Scott, yes please.
ReplyDeleteI'm cool with a heel HHH, anything that isn't him desperately trying to get cheers. Way more likeable as a heel (ironically).
ReplyDeleteYeah, they prolonged the celebration long enough to think we were getting a happy ending
ReplyDeleteI thought Cena/Bryan was better than Punk/Lesnar, but both were pretty awesome
ReplyDeleteHoly Crap, I just realized something.
ReplyDelete3 Hour Raw + Orton + HHH
The opening segment may break an hour.
Same. I didnt watch from 03-06 with a couple exceptions
ReplyDelete"No one wants to see hhh."
ReplyDeleteYou talking about the same HHH who the crowd was going nuts for last week? Like, they were chanting his name REALLY loud. That HHH?
I want to see him.
ReplyDeletePunk/Lesnar was an awesome freaking match. By the end I was legitimately hating Heyman and wanted to see CM Punk destroy that walrus son of a bitch.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't. It was classic NWA style wrestling with the heel stable on top. The matches were always good. The main event for months was Evolution vs. Jericho, Edge, Benoit and others and was a guaranteed *** or better week after week.
ReplyDeleteThe whole thing was designed to make you sick of HHH staying on top and be blown off by a real fan favorite winning which was EXACTLY what happened. Benoit making HHH finally tap out clean in the middle was the best moment I'd ever had in wrestling (until you know...THAT happened) which was EXACTLY what they wanted.
Everyone's talking about how they're bringing back Austin's story but really they're mixing Austin's story with Benoit's and leaning more towards Benoit's story. If people don't think Bryan's story ends with him jumping through hoops for months and finally getting Orton to tap clean in the middle to end it once and for all, they're kidding themselves.
He got the same pop a returning hacksaw Jim Dugan or any other name would get. Doesn't mean anyone in the entire world wants him cutting a promo every week or wants to see him have a bad match.
ReplyDeleteYeah but your a troll and by trolling my post with a lie that means you also hate hhh. We are all on to you
ReplyDeleteAgreed. HHH's character (and probably the guy in real life) is a sarcastic, sardonic asshole. He only works as a face in small doses. It's more fun to have him be a heel.
ReplyDeleteYou're, not your.
ReplyDeleteIt made me spontaneously smile in that "ok, you've got me" way at least 4 or 5 different times
ReplyDelete1. He wasn't returning, he's been on the show every week for a while now. He consistently gets great pops every time he appears in the ring or backstage in a segment.
ReplyDelete2. He was cutting promos every week, and having "bad" matches between 2006-2010 and he was still very over as a babyface.
By the way how do you guys feels about DBry's possible new finisher? I liked it, reminded me of Roderick Strong's Sick Kick
ReplyDeleteI much prefer HHH as a heel. I agree that it will be stupid if he has one-on-one matches and especially if he wins them, but he's fine in an authority figure or manager type role, or even if he's in a few tag matches.
ReplyDeleteI'm optimistic about the direction this is going and legit excited to watch RAW tonight for the first time in many, many months.
I'm not a big HHH fan and I don't really have any desire to see him. But just because you and I don't want to see him, does not mean that "no one" wants to see him.
ReplyDeleteIs it safe? Cause it doesn't look very safe. I don't understand how he's going to do it so it looks good but also doesn't give his opponent a legit concussion.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, if it's not an injury risk then I'd say it's awesome and long overdue. It sucks for a babyface not to have a pinning finisher.
Triple H is the sole reason why I can't watch WWE regularly.
ReplyDeleteThe only nitpick I'd have is that after first raising DB's hand, HHH should have gotten out of the ring. Then when Orton showed up, he could slide back in because, as the ref, he should be in the ring if a cash-in were to happen. HHH being in the ring the whole time telegraphed something happening post-match. But, that's the kind of shit I'll forget in a day or so, and the rest of the execution was great.
ReplyDeleteI remember late 2003 through mid 2005 being pretty great. I missed the beginning of HHH's run on top so it wasn't stale to me, and the stuff I did see (HBK and then HBK/Benoit, then Batista's turn) was very entertaining. Because of that run, I have never bought HHH as a babyface and I'm glad he's back to the heel side.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Not to mention that Evolution fulfilled it's 'behind-the-scenes' purpose and helped turn Orton and Bautista into main-eventers. And then they broke up at the right time.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a huge HHH fan, and I hate Orton - but overall Evolution was a pretty well-booked and effective heel stable.
....this wasn't Scott.
ReplyDeleteI also like HHH and like him on the program. And HHH was on the program every week in backstage segments prior to them chanting his name that other week. I don't think it's quite as universal as you might like. =)
ReplyDeleteI go 4.5 for both, Punk-Brock loses a half star for me due to Punk so obviously ignoring Brock while trying to get Heyman multiple times, while I docked Cena/Bryan for a bit of a clunky start. Otherwise thought both were absolutely fantastic. Equal rating, but loved how they got there in different ways. Amazing how things work out when both main events feel like they have stakes in addition to the great workers involved.
ReplyDeletePunk being obsessed with Heyman was the story of the match. Curious as to why that knock's it down half a star for you?
ReplyDelete'- The
ReplyDeletefeeling backstage was said to be very mixed on the end of the Summerslam
PPV last night. Everyone felt that the work was fantastic in the main
event, but the post match events and Orton winning title caused a split
opinion. Some feel that this will lead to a great story,
where Bryan gets his revenge it will get him over even more. Others
feel that the company should have let Bryan have his moment and that it
would have made him right there.
As far as the way the title change was done, many feel that it made no
sense for Bryan to take one Pedigree and that there was so much time
between that and Orton
cashing in and then pinning him with no additional offense. The feeling
from some is that it was ridiculous that Bryan took a one move from a
largely retired wrestler after he just survived the onslaught from the
company's top guy, John Cena.'
Yeah I was on the edge of my bed screaming for Lesner to tap. My girlfriend was pretty amused.
ReplyDeleteSince Scott is reviewing I definitely want one from you Cal, it's always interesting how different a show can be on paper between two people.
ReplyDeleteoff/on topic: D-Bry's new finisher is sick
you made a similar mistake the other day, chuckles
ReplyDeleteUh, he just fought a 25 minute match and then took a move that has been built up as killing people for close to 15 years now. Him getting pinned easily made complete sense. Guys saying that are just bitter HHH haters.
ReplyDeleteBryan was made last night by beating Cena clean. If anyone came out looking weak it was Orton for cashing int he way he did, but he's a heel now so it made sense. This is an easy story to write, guy was screwed, guy eventually get's his revenge. The money is always in the chase.
me: TAP!!!
ReplyDeletegf: hm? opens eyes slowly
me: it's Punk
gf: TAP!!!!
As much as we're expected to (and happy to) suspend our disbelief, I agree with Topher that Punk was a bit too easily distracted. Came across like a bit of an idiot, actually
ReplyDeleteI watched one Evolution match. The four vs. Shelton Benjamin, HBK, Benoit and Foley before the post-Wrestlemania PPV in Canada.
ReplyDeleteMatch was pretty fucking awesome.
Once HHH got his injury out of the way the stuff in 2004 was pretty good.
From now on, all Grammar Slams that I see, no matter who throws them out, will get a +1 from me. Literally.
ReplyDelete*litreally
ReplyDeleteMe fail English? That's unpossible!
ReplyDeleteThis is 100 percent correct.
ReplyDeleteNo more RAW's and now no PPV's either? It's the Howard Sternization of the BoD. REPLAYS!
ReplyDeleteGood point. We talked about that last night, too, but it didn't bother me because- again, even though we were convinced a HHH heel turn/Orton cash-in was happening- they played it on both sides of the fence so perfectly in the build-up. HHH had become SO pro-Bryan that I was convinced a swerve was coming, but it was still also possible that HHH had found, in DB, "his guy" to back against Vince.
ReplyDeleteI'm not enthused about a heavier HHH/McMahon presence and have no idea if they'll shit the bed with it the way they did Punk, post-Summerslam '11, but so far this storyline has been almost perfect.
Absolutely agree right here.
ReplyDeleteScott is reviewing this one, relax.
ReplyDeleteSee, I like the storyline of Triple H turning and having his Orton as his champion. The turn was done well, I'm fine with that.
ReplyDeleteBut I don't agree that the money is in the chase here. Daniel Bryan's an underdog because he's a short worker who isn't really WWE's type of guy. John Cena's the poster boy who's been pushed down out throat out our ass and back down again for 10 years. There's more drama to weather or not Daniel Bryan can defeat him. There's more drama as to weather or not they'd really let Daniel Bryan be the WWE Champion. That's where the chase and the drama is.
I don't think Bryan chasing Randy Orton means as much as much - and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the end game here is Cena vs Orton, and the reason they let Bryan win the title in the first place is so they could established HHH and Orton as heels for fucking him out of it.
Y not
ReplyDeleteI'm convinced the end goal is to make Bryan a megastar because he went over Cena clean. That was the key. It wasn't Cena's feet were on the ropes and Triple H missed it, it wasn't outside interference, it wasn't Cena's elbow injury. Bryan took both of Cena's finishers, survived them, and then beat him right in the middle of the ring. You can't put over a guy much stronger than that.
ReplyDeleteI edited it, I just figured with the announcement that there wouldn't be any more TV reviews a cessation of PPV reviews wouldn't be all that surprising.
ReplyDeleteAfter the Summer of Punk, I'm skeptical.
ReplyDeleteThis used to be a place I could watch illegal live streams of shows I won't pay for, read amusing reviews of a television show I don't have the patience to watch, and see some tits at the same time. Where did the blog lose it's way, Mel?
ReplyDeleteI can understand that. Bryan got put over stronger than Punk ever did. Now if Bryan ends up jobbing to Triple H, I will eat my words.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking strictly for myself here obviously, but I'm much more interested in Daniel Bryan's story arc with this turn of events than I would've been if he had simply pinned Cena and that was it. If he kept it I see a fall title reign against... Ryback? A babyface Orton? It doesn't sound terrible, the idea of Daniel Bryan: Fighting Champion, but I'm jacked to hear what HHH/Orton have to say and to see Bryan make those assholes pay for screwing him.
ReplyDeleteI feel like we just saw Smark Darling finally beat John Cena and embark on an epic title reign. I wanna see something different, and a nice, long chase with a satisfying payoff is it.
It lost its way when people quit getting tears in their eyes in the presence of Bret Hart.
ReplyDeleteDid not.
ReplyDeleteI do have to say I love how protected The Pedigree is. DB is seemingly full of piss and vinegar, then BOOM one pedigree later dead to the world. I love it.
ReplyDeleteLoved the show too - Brock v. Punk was great, I haven't seen Christian v. Del Rio yet, Cena v. Bryan was awesome (but I had the finish spoiled for me) and I dug the match between Cody Rhodes and Sandow quite a bit, too.
Them slowly walking out to their separate entrance music may take 10 minutes right there.
ReplyDeleteI love the knee to the face. It can be done anywhere to anybody at anytime, and that is what a top-level finisher needs to be.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, but with the caveat that the money is in the chase here if Orton is built well as a heel, backed by Vince and HHH going through all the stops to keep the title on him.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't the Atittude Era where anything touched turns to gold, and therefore sure, let's give Foley a couple of quick title reigns on the way to Austin regaining the belt at the big show.
As mentioned many a time, Cena is made. Let him take his damn time to recover, and when he comes back, have him build to whatever superfight he's doing at this year's Mania. But if Cena trades title reigns with the new heel champion, it's not going to mean as much when the new and hot face takes it back from that same heel (see 2011, Del Rio / Cena / Punk).
Feed Orton: Van Dam, Henry, Show, Kane, Ziggler, etc. Keep Bryan working like a dog to overcome the odds and forces against him to get another title shot. And keep Cena away.
If this can happen, Orton vs Bryan at Mania XXX is a big, big money match.
What LAD said below. I was fine with actually all the times he went after Heyman, I thought it was dumb for him to completely turn his back in Brock like he wasn't even there every time. Minor quibble, I loved the match and thought Punk was amazing otherwise
ReplyDeleteI disagree on Dolph. While he got a decent pop, I think AJ gets way more heat than him. His face run is just dying.
ReplyDeleteYeah the money is in Austin having the championship and having to defend it against increasingly tougher odds, not being screwed out of it.
ReplyDeleteBut he's not chasing Orton. He's chasing a corporation hell-bent on him not being a star. If it was just about him chasing the belt or some slimy dick heel, I agree. But it's so much more than that.
ReplyDeleteAgain, this comes with the caviat that I don't know if they'll book it smartly going forward. Wrestling in general (with some exceptions) isn't very good at paying off long storylines like this. But so far, and what they've set up going forward with Daniel Bryan being the underdog hero battling an entire corporate structure, has been perfect.
I dunno, I imagine whatever physics make the Shining Wizard safe make that move safe.
ReplyDeleteI'm waiting for him to hit it off the apron to a guy on the floor.
ReplyDeleteWrestling is not a subtle art form. It didn't bother me because the whole buildup has been about Punk basically ignoring Lesnar.
ReplyDeleteimagine if Vince, Orton, Shane, Steph, and H all come out to the 'No Chance' music? That'd be awesome.
ReplyDeleteThat's another good point. This is more interesting than version 2.0 of the Punk/Cena feud.
ReplyDeleteI was screaming TAP at Cena at the Staples. I dunno how it came off on TV, but there was a fair amount of us.
ReplyDeleteIt's another KENTA finisher. Busaiku Knee Kick. But he stole Bryan's finisher, so I guess it's an international move exchange or something.
ReplyDeleteI thought they were chanting "We Want Tables" but "We Want Sable" makes more sense.
ReplyDeletePeter Rosenberg tweeted that the fans were way more into the Divas match because of Total Divas. I guess he counts them chanting about everything but the match as being into it.
If it had happened one time, maybe. Of course, I'd mark out to see Shane-o-Mac again. But of those people, surprisingly enough (imo), Vince is the only one who has been bringing the goods character-wise. The rest seem to put themselves over too much rather than the story.
ReplyDeleteYeah man, Punk's just in an awful spot right now.
ReplyDeleteim with you on this
ReplyDelete....that was the point.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this. It also bothered me how easily Punk got distracted by Heyman. I know it was the story and Punk's obsessed with destroying Paul, but Punk's also supposed to be one of the smartest characters, like, ever, so it was disappointing to see them go that route. Honestly, Punk should've just gone over. At this point using Brock as the most expensive JTTS is the way they should go, because he's perma-over whenever he comes back and is still bought as this godless killing machine no matter what the outcome of his previous match was, because we know he really IS a godless killing machine. It doesn't matter if he wins or loses because his character doesn't care about winning or losing. He just wants to hurt people. That's why it didn't matter that Cena beat Brock: because Brock hurt him. (Now, it made it all the worse that Cena showed right back up the next night like nothing happened, but I digress anyway.)
ReplyDeleteOkay... for the last time...
ReplyDelete1. Having the Summer of Punk go from a CM Punk revolution to jobbing to HHH one month, then tagging along HHH the next, cut off the character's momentum. Punk lost his edge.
2. Punk had a chance to be an industry changing star or another mainstream crossover star. The buzz over him was unbelievable. But because things were botched after MitB and especially after SSlam '11, we all had to settle for him being a top guy not named Cena.
Did you really think that Punk was really going to be the impetus of some business-changing revolution or be a real mainstream star? That was never happening. Punk's broken into the mainstream some, anyway, about as much as anyone has a chance to these days. There aren't enough eyeballs on wrestling right now for someone to be that kind of star.
ReplyDeleteAnd he had to lose some of the edge, because a chunk of fans were already starting to boo him by September because he was just being a dick. As shitty as it was booking-wise, I think the stuff with HHH making him tone it down a bit was the best thing long-term. As a whole, that run from July to November leading to him winning the belt back established him as a tippy-top, made man. That's what matters.
I didn't like how the 'Summer of Punk' turned out, especially once Big Poochie got involved. But Punk was never that close to being a 'mainstream crossover star'
ReplyDeleteSorry guys - wearing the belt to a Cubs game and showing up at Comic-con do not make you a 'mainstream crossover star'.
Del Rio is pretty underrated as worker, the man has been tearing it on SD.
ReplyDeleteAgree with Mike Mears, Punk was never gonna become that huge crossover star to launch us into the next boom period.
ReplyDeleteFor as much as fans give WWE shit for living in the past, they (the fans) need to understand that 84 Hogan and 98 Austin are NOT happening again. This is 2013, ratings don't mean the same thing, and pop culture isn't what it used to be. And there's MMA, which cuts into a huge part of casual fans that created the only 2 booms we've seen.
There is no alternate timeline where CM Punk stayed away for 6 months, taking the belt to various independants while building more and more mainstream buzz (banking on pop culture to do what it never does, show patience) before returning to face Cena at Mania where they did 1.4 million buys and by the end of the year they were doing 7.0s for RAW and Punk is hosting SNL.
GQ, ESPN, TMZ are just some of the organizations off the top of my head that were giving this some pub. Shit, this Punk thing brought Scott back to reviewing shows and probably a good chunk of this blog to start following WWE again.
ReplyDeleteOh, and to your #1 point: the type of fans people were counting on to feed the CM Punk revolution were lapsed Attitude Era fans, who are extremely fickle/impatient and have MMA to feed their interests. Plus catering to them risks alienating your core group, kids, as well as females (a hugely underrated demo for the WWE, and where the best chance of a 3rd "boom period" comes from).
ReplyDeleteI think the predictability of Orton cashing in could have been avoided if he had a match on the card. Nothing huge. Just a 10 minute match against Ryback or maybe one of The Shield guys or whoever. Just a little something to throw the viewer off the scent. When a big star like Orton doesn't have a match on the card but does have the briefcase...then of course he's gonna cash it in after the main-event.
ReplyDeleteTechnically speaking, the majority of the WWE audience are males 18+. It's on their website.
ReplyDeleteSo why couldn't Orton hit the RKO throw HHH the briefcase and pin DBry?
ReplyDeleteThe problem is the angle is now about HHH teaming up with Orton and costing DBry the title. Not about DBry having a great match with Cena, or not even about Randy Orton cashing in the Money in the Bank. Look at the headlines of the WWE Website. It's about HHH.
Booing by September? September is after Summerslam. I contend that it was partially botched before Summerslam and fully botched afterward. To try to say that the Summer of Punk was not botched is revisionist history at best.
ReplyDeleteThey had a true spark of something... I don't know what it could've been, but I do know it could've been so much more. Grantland and ESPN personalities were coming out of the woodwork and talking about how great it was. Bill Simmons--perhaps the most popular sports columnist in America--wrote things about it. GQ wrote things about it. TMZ was covering Punk more. This had some serious friggin' buzz.
That same website says 36% of their fans are female. I didn't say they were the majority, I said they were hugely underrated, which they are since no one here talks about them and some guys are convinced barely any females watch wrestling.
ReplyDeleteThey've only just recently (the past couple years) seriously started marketing to women/girls the way they do men/boys, so that number has serious room to grow.
So, if this were the start of a new Evolution but with HHH now in the Flair role and Orton in the HHH role who would people have in the Orton/Batista next gen role?
ReplyDeleteThe logical choice would probably have been a combination of Rollins, Ambrose and Reigns if they weren't already The Shield. Then again that gimmick has kind of become stagnant so maybe they can all join and drop the kevlar or they could kick one out (Rollins is the most obvious face).
Cessaro would be a great choice. I can't claim an expertise on the NXT guys but maybe one of them would be a good choice if there's one or two with great potential. Has Mason Ryan got any better? He'd obviously be the perfect choice for the Batista role. If he can do work as a heel then maybe Ricky Steamboat's kid would be perfect for the next Orton.
Probably won't happen but it'd be cool if it did because I'd like a new strong faction since the Wyatts are more a mid-card act at the moment and, like I said before, the Shield seems to have lost nearly all their momentum at the moment.
Boom period? Exaggerating my point with the first and third paragraphs is just dirty debating. Go read my post below. July 2011 had more people talking about WWE than they had been in the previous 10 years (tragedies notwithstanding). People were interested, and the Nash and HHH involvement turned people away. They screwed it up, Punk lost his edge, and we went back to gradually declining ratings.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea how "they didn't botch the Summer of Punk" is even a valid argument.
Vince has always been great at showing lots of ass to get people over. Steph seems to take after HHH too much, that Raw where she threatened/reprimanded Kaitlyn for interrupting her (and Kaitlyn had to look all scared) was the worst. So unnecessary.
ReplyDeleteMaybe a face-turn for The Shield? Maybe with the odds stacked against Bryan, they can come to his aide in the name of justice or something? Of course, that would be cool so it'll probably be Cena who fights by Bryan's side.
ReplyDelete"Punk had a chance to be an industry changing star or another mainstream crossover star."
ReplyDeleteThat's what you wrote, I don't feel like I'm taking it out of context. You hadn't expanded on that point yet when I wrote my response. The only 2 people that fit those terms are Hogan and Austin (maybe Rock, but I feel he doesn't crossover without Austin). Saying he could've been another Hogan/Austin implies that business/exposure will be at those guys level.
Ryback in the Batista role would make a lot of sense. He could play the heavy, interfere to help Orton win, and take the loss to Bryan before the Orton match.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise I don't think they should make the group much larger than that— it all should be based around keeping Orton as the corporate champ anyway.
As for The Shield, yeah they've been cooled off but they were built so strong that I think they could be shot back up to main event level with ease. Hell, I think the most logical thing for them is to officially become Heyman's gang (because let's face it, Curtis Axel ain't worth shit) in the war against Punk. Gives Punk some awesome matches in the next few months, sets up a nice Shield/Lesnar/Axel vs Team Punk Survivor Series match, and provides the buffer between now and Punk's eventual rematch with Lesnar.
Putting Shield in the Punk/Heyman feud immediately makes them super interesting again, and it fits into their original WWE storyline.
True, but they ingrained him so much into the buildup of this match that I think THAT was their idea of throwing us off the scent: like, it's so obvious they won't actually do it.
ReplyDelete"Punk had a chance to be an industry changing star or another mainstream crossover star."
ReplyDeleteThat's what you wrote, I don't feel like I'm taking it out of context. You hadn't expanded on that point yet when I wrote my response. The only 2 people that fit those terms are Hogan and Austin (maybe Rock, but I feel he doesn't crossover without Austin). Saying he could've been another Hogan/Austin implies that business/exposure will be at those guys level.
t
I hear ya. Kinda like Kane winning that first blood match against Austin back in the day. It was SO OBVIOUS that Austin was gonna lose that when the match started, I thought he was gonna win. I tried to convince myself that they might have some gimmicked blood dispenser in Kane's mask that would allow blood to drip down lol
ReplyDeleteI didn't say it wasn't botched. I said, "As shitty as it was booking-wise..."
ReplyDeleteI know there was buzz. I was there.
It depends if they were to literally remake a next gen version of Evolution. If they were doing that then Ryback wouldn't really work because he's almost certainly already peaked as far as being a hot main-event calibre act. If the goal of the faction were to just be Orton's protection then Ryback would work perfectly in the role as you described. If it would be in the hopes of providing the best possible rub for one or two future WM main-eventers then they'd need to look elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteI'm definitely with Petuka and the others who'd argue that Summer of Punk had the potential to be pretty huge, and that HHH/Nash's involvement totally fucked things up and cooled Punk off from his potential of becoming a mainstream-attention-getting megaface.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I think the way things played out last night could be a great move, and actually it's EXACTLY what WWE should have done at Summerslam 2011.
To me, the problem with the Summer of Punk storyline wasn't that HHH got involved, it was that HHH didn't turn heel. The finish should have been exactly what we got last night— Punk cleanly pins Cena, handshake, celebration, pedigree, Del Rio becomes corporate champ.
Cena could have gotten laid out for a bit by Awesome Truth and spent the year doing his parallel universe Rock feud (tag match at Survivor Series, Kane feud, the Once in a Lifetime match etc) while Punk spent the year mowing through the Corporation and getting his title back. And in the course of that he needed to get a clean win over a clearly HEEL HHH.
The problem was that HHH simply didn't want to go heel because, I dunno, it would have ruined the "End of an Era" dynamic of his face vs face match with Taker at Mania 28? Which in retrospect, they could have still done the same goddamn match at Mania with the dynamic being that HHH is the evil dick who laid Taker out a year before, and now Taker is back for revenge in the Cell. Would have worked way more than the stupid "chairshot-but I love you man" dynamic they used instead.
So anyway, what I'm saying is, this seems like a Summer of Punk reboot, but with the dynamics in the right place.
GQ wrote an article about Ring Ka King. It was still gone in a couple months. Simmons had the Miz on his podcast, and that didn't turn Miz into the the Rock v2. I love Bill Simmons, but I think you're exaggerating his influence - otherwise White Shadow re-runs would be be showing non-stop.
ReplyDeleteYes, the Summer of Punk was botched. The Punk-HHH match (if it even needed to have existed) should have ended with Punk winning. And if you go can find the comments at the time, you'll find that I was one of thef ew people on this blog who argued that there was no chance in hell Big Kev's involvement would result in Punk beating Nash.
So yeah, the storyline could have been better. I'm just disagreeing with how high the ceiling could have been. I agree that it could have been a much better angle, and keeping him away would have led to a more meaningful return and 'champion vs. champion' match. I just disagree with the idea that Punk would have been the 'next mainstream crossover' star - media is just so fragmented and niche-oriented that it's almost impossible to imagine anyone becoming a crossover start like Hogan was in the 80s or Austin in the 90s.
"'m definitely with Petuka and the others who'd argue that Summer of Punk
ReplyDeletehad the potential to be pretty huge, and that HHH/Nash's involvement
totally fucked things up and cooled Punk off from his potential of
becoming a mainstream-attention-getting megaface."
Partially disagree. HHH/Nash's involvement cooled off the angle and didn't really help Punk much. I don't think he ever would have become the 'mainstream-attention-getting megaface' you guys think he would have, but the Summer of Punk definitely could have been booked a lot better.
Yeah, I guess I'm looking at it as more of a Corporation reboot (a bunch of enforcers like Kane/Boosman/Shamrock just watching out for the one true star) rather than an Evolution where the goal is to make new heel stars. Evolution was about making new stars from within the group by having them mow through all the faces. I kinda feel like teh goal here should be to make a star out of the face (Bryan) by having him mow through the heel group.
ReplyDeleteYou bring up some great points, and I tend to think you're spot on. You weren't realistically going to keep Punk off tv for that long, and the real reason it didn't work is because, as much as some of us don't want this to be the case, HHH is a pretty popular face most of the time, so when you have a face WWE legend vs. a guy you want to make the hottest thing in wrestling, I don't think it's going to work out very well (for the new guy you want to make the hottest thing in wrestling). This time could work a LOT better because HHH is a clearly defined heel....
ReplyDeleteAlthough, given how popular Orton and HHH are in some locales, I wonder will there still be some residual cheers....
Man don't you ever learn?
ReplyDeleteHe was getting a lot of exposure outside of the wrestling core by showing up to Cubs games and ComiCon with the belt and putting over the story to people outside of wrestling fans.
ReplyDeleteFair enough. I'm not sure if Punk could've pulled off sweet talking the media, either. I do think there was a chance that he could've been a crossover star as WWE's resident bad boy. I guess we'll never know because they didn't handle the angle as delicately as it needed to be handled.
ReplyDeleteAre you talking in terms that HHH won't be able to help himself from putting The King of Kings over Bryan AND we should know better by now?
ReplyDeleteInteresting poll questions for the blog:
1. Will HHH accept a supporting role to Orton and let Orton...ya know, the full-time wrestler...be alpha male?
2. Will HHH find a reason to win a match against Bryan?
Listen, to sit here and say Punk would have become the next Hulk/Austin/Rock would be ridiculous, because there's been that's just such an insanely high & rare barometer. But could a properly booked Punk in 2011 have gotten a lot bigger than he did and increased business? I think that's very fair.
ReplyDeleteLike Petuka said below, that angle got way more mainstream attention than WWE has gotten for the product (not counting stuff like Benoit) than probably anything in the Cena decade. They did a full 10-min sketch with him on Kimmel for Chrissakes. It's not hosting SNL, but that's pretty mainstream.
And honestly, if you look at WWE right now, they're actually in a better position on the pop-culture landscape than they've been since the Attitude Era. Wrestling, in a lot of ways, feels kinda cool again. Sites like Grantland and Bill Simmons regularly write about current WWE events. Wrestlers are guesting on the cool comedy podcasts like WTF, Nerdist, Jay Mohr etc and treated like big deals. It's not 1999 with wrestlers hosting SNL, but it's also not the low-period of the "Raw Guest GM era" where WWE felt like a collection of the world's biggest dorks.
I definitely think there's somewhat of a cool factor that Punk brought back in 2011, and it could have been even bigger if they had gone all the way with him destroying a heel HHH.
I think it could be interesting to turn Shield face. Hear me out:
ReplyDeleteThe Shield is basically about bringing "justice" by going after guys who have been around too long. They supported Punk against Cena and now they are going against RVD/Show/Henry, two guys who have been on the roster longer than anyone almost and another guy who is older and just got brought back to take a spot away from the next generation.
Also, you have the ROH history with Rollins and Bryan. Not a HUGE deal, but you could just say they had respect for each other from the past.
So the McMahons are basically sponsoring Orton as the new main event and Cena is injured. You could make the New Evolution group even more intimidating by having Vince make a deal with the devil and having Heyman bring Brock to the group.
Anyway, it would boil down to Punk and Bryan recruiting The Shield to help them take down the System (hmmm The SYSTEM might be a decent name for the group).
If they're really going to re-make Evolution then Bo Dallas is a decent choice to be the new Orton. They seem to really like him. It's too bad that McIntyre has been a jobber for so long because he's someone who would absolutely shine in that role. They were breeding him for being "the chosen one" years ago but he's been a jobber for too long now, it just wouldn't look right. Same with DiBiase or Rhodes. On paper they could fit into Orton's old slot but they just have the stink of WWE booking on them.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they'll go that route. If they need extra enforcers I'd just stick with the obvious choices of Ryback and Barrett. I don't agree with the people who think Ryback has peaked. He's a big guy with a pretty good look who can actually work a little bit. Other than the Punk HITC match, every time Ryback's had a chance with a good worker, he's had good matches. Bryan, Jericho, Cena, etc. He's held up his end. I'd give him the role.
Nope, never!
ReplyDeleteSo how nuts was the atmosphere in the arena last night man? It sounded like a million times better crowd than any of the previous LA Summerslams, especially during Punk-Lesnar. Sounded like people were losing their shit.
Were fans pissed at the end in a "fuck this I don't even wanna bother" way, or a "man Orton sucks I wanna see Bryan kick his ass" way?
Trips comes out to his music...3 minutes.
ReplyDeleteWaits for boos to quiet down...2 minutes
Starts to talk, but gets interrupted by Vince...3 minutes
They hug and brag about how they fooled everyone...5 minutes
They introduce Orton who comes out to his music...5 minutes
Orton talks about being awesome...5 minutes
HHH talks about being awesome...5 minutes
Vince talks about being awesome...5 minutes
Bryan interrupts...5 minutes.
Vince makes Bryan wrestle The Ryback...5 minutes.
Yeah, I get that. I remember both incidents and thinking they were awesome, but I also think the potential impact of both of those has been exaggerated.
ReplyDeleteQuick! What happened at Comic-Con this year? Can you name anything other than announcement that the next Superman movie would involve Batman? And how many people do you think even know that?
And the Summer of Punk could have been better - it could have been an awesome, hot wrestling angle instead of a mediocre angle. But I don't think it ever was going to lead to Punk becoming the next Steve Austin.
Sorry to sit here on August 19. 2013 and rehash an argument we've been having for almost 2 years, but I want to talk about CM Punk: Potential Megastar.
ReplyDeleteI think there's something people are forgetting about all the mainstream buzz and interest from non-fans that Punk was getting: the buzz was over the *angle* and not the *performer*. I had more wrestling conversations with non fans that summer than I've ever had in my life, and I follow Bill Simmons on twitter, so I have a pretty good idea of the interest. All of it was centered around the storyline, that a guy on his last day with the company WON THE WWE TITLE and now the E was in a quagmire of epic proportions that threatened its very existence. After all, even non fans understand that without a legit champ there's no point. That's what got people hooked, cause it's a fucking awesome idea.
Where my skepticism comes from is, while I think he's a tremendous performer, I don't think CM Punk, the guy himself, is compelling enough to sustain that level of interest long term, ala Hogan and Austin. Those guys clearly connected with ALL fans, across ALL demos, because of who they were not the specific angle they were involved in.
You can argue they left money on the table in the form of a proper storyline and payoff, ideally at Mania. I'd agree with that. But you're not convincing me we'd be seeing Punk elevate the industry to another boom period (and yes, when you compare him to Hogan/Austin/Rock that's what you're saying; he's not becoming a legit mainstream attraction if no one is watching the show).
Do I think he would have reached Austin/Hogan level? Probably not, but I think he easily could've reached Cena's level. He's already close even with the missteps.
ReplyDeleteWell said.
ReplyDeleteYou could have said the same thing about "Stunning" Steve Austin in 1995 or Rocky Maivia in 1996.
ReplyDeleteBooking is everything.
1.) No.
ReplyDelete2.) Yes.
"I definitely think there's somewhat of a cool factor that Punk brought
ReplyDeleteback in 2011, and it could have been even bigger if they had gone all
the way with him destroying a heel HHH."
Yes, I agree with that.
No, booking is not as important as who the character is and 2011 CM Punk was a pretty established character. He was who he was, a straight edge guy covered in tattoos who loves punk. And who can come across as a whiner if left to his own devices.
ReplyDeleteI always hear people's fantasy booking for the SoP, what about the angle after that? Where does Punk go from there? For him to sustain that level of interest (IMO) he needs to have a SoP-worthy storyline going on all the time. And that's too much to ask of ANY promotion in any era. Both Hogan/Austin were so beloved they were able to partially skate by on (insert evil threat of the month/s). I don't think Punk is that kinda guy.
His appearance causes your constipation?
ReplyDeleteYeah but that angle doesn't exist without having had the exact right performer who was able to make it seem important. I mean, they've tried the "face vs Vince" stuff a thousand times since the Attitude era with Lashley & Cena & HBK and whoever, and nobody gave a shit about it (mainstream or within wrestling) until Punk did it. As for teh hostage title thing, yes that's an awesome storyline— but do you think people would really have given a shit simply because of that? Like if Edge had taken the WWE title hostage, it would have gotten the same attention? No, it worked because Punk pulled that shit off ina way that really made it awesome, even to the very occasional fans. (And also Cena and Vince were the tits in that storyline too.)
ReplyDeleteGiving the credit to the angle rather than the performer doesn't work, because you could also have said the same thing about Stone Cold's rise. The storyline he was handed— someone actually beating the shit out of their boss, who happened to be legit mainstream figure Vince McMahon— is even more inherently awesome than the "uh oh the WWE doesn't have a champion" storyline. Austin became a star because the context was amazing, his character & work were equally amazing, and the booking followed through on making him seem cooler and more badass at every turn.
If Punk had gotten that same follow through in 2011, yes he maybe could have approached "difference-making" level of popularity in the mainstream.
Honestly, I think Punk, & now Bryan, actually are the perfect guys to break WWE further in the mainstream. In the 80s it was all about flag-waving action stars, so Hogan fit right in. In the late 90s things got crasser, so bad-ass dickheads like Austin and Rock were naturals. And now— I guess we're in the comedy-nerd hipster era? So for this era of podcasts and comic-book geeks, who better (besides Kanyon) than Punk and Bryan?
I don't know... if people are talking about the angle, they are also talking about the star of the angle. And this awesome idea was the brainchild of the person you said fails to connect to a clear majority.
ReplyDeleteIf the angle continues in the avant garde way it began, more people will watch (WWF, 1997-98) even if an initial ratings bump wasn't present. So, money and viewership was likely left on the table (or sacrificed at the altar of The King of Kings, The Game Triple H Hunter Hearst Helmsley so he could come out of everything victorious).
I'm not saying Punk becomes a megastar but I am saying he had the chance to become a rebellious crossover star of a hot show ala Dylan McKay of 90210 or Spike of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. (I have noted many times in the past, however, that Punk's media etiquette leaves a lot to be desired...so he could've killed his own push or breakthrough eventually).
And, as always, watch this and tell me he's not something special http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7xzcIvdqjA
YOU ARE SPEAKING AGAINST CM PUNK ON THE INTERNET!!!!
ReplyDeleteRELEASE THE KRAKEN!
I think you may be over-estimating his popularity, or it may just be in your neck of the woods. I wasn't watching the product — wasn't even following it on the Internet — and I know zero about The Summer of Punk. I don't think it was as big outside the wrestling community as you think. But I could also be wrong.
ReplyDeleteYes, you did, and he called you on it.
ReplyDeleteI really don't think Punk could've done that.
ReplyDeleteTo be a truly game-breaking crossover star, you need to tap into zeitgeist, right? Well, Punk did...but he also didn't. He didn't tap into a sustainable face archetype (he wasn't rebelling against the system or defending America a la Austin or Hulk), if Punk continued to stick with the MiTB character he would've had to have to turned heel. The money was in the chase...not the keeping.
Here are your options at MiTB (which is where the angle climaxed)
A) Punk loses. And Punk gets proven wrong because he didn't win. He's not the BEST IN THE WORLD! Because if you're the best, you don't lose. Or at least, you don't lose at the biggest match you've ever had.
B) Punk loses but breaks kayfabe about it. Hahahaha...no.
C) No resolution. They would've still had to have paid it off, and while maybe they could've gotten a few more money PPVs out of the deal, they wouldn't have made Punk into a star. I think the delayed pay-off for star making matches has been proven to be a bust.
D) Punk wins. Punk's right. He is the BEST IN THE WORLD! All he needed was THE match against THE guy for THE title. And he proved himself as a top guy. But guess what? How do you have a guy whose character was defined by the desire to show how they are the BEST IN THE WORLD do after they've proven it? Punk had no more material for that particular character. So they transitioned it into a feud about tradition vs. trailblazing. And while that's an old story. It doesn't have an obvious babyface.
The Punk experiment worked as well as it possibly could have. But while I think more could have been done with the Reality Era (which I still think has invaded the company a little bit with AJ's crazy ex gimmick and Cena's "Worst Year Ever" thing) the mainstream buzz Punk was getting was due to an excellent and SHORT angle.
Interesting. I disagree with 'it worked as well as it could have' argument, but interesting nonetheless. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
ReplyDelete"I don't know... if people are talking about the angle, they are also talking about the star of the angle. And this awesome idea was the brainchild of the person you said fails to connect to a clear majority."
ReplyDeleteHey, the guy has a great mind for the wrestling business, I won't argue that. But there's been 3 legit crossover stars in modern wrestling history, and all of them were great for *who* their characters were, not just the angle they were involved in. That's why Austin could lose his first major match (WM13), as well as his first title shot (against Taker) and still keep his momentum. They didn't give him the belt for a full year after WM13 and it just kept chugging along because people connected with Stone Cold the non-nonsense, ass kicking loner. Hell, he didn't even get to win a blowoff match against his biggest rival (Bret) and it still didn't matter. You said the Punk situation was 'delicate', and it was, and to me that speaks to the problem I'm talking about. They "fucked up" Austin so many times. He lost big matches. He didn't get a proper blowoff. Didn't matter.
"And, as always, watch this and tell me he's not something special"
Um, that's a sleek video package produced by WWE. They'll make ANYTHING look epic. Don't get me wrong, he's a tremendous performer as far as wrestlers go. But so is HBK, and he didn't have the ability to break through either, despite the opportunity.
So what do you do with him following SoP? Cause Austin was programmed against EVERYBODY (evil boss, cocky heel, chickenshit heel, undead badass and his undead badass brother, crazy guy with multiple personalities, ruthless 'cerebral assasin'). To me, to be able to hit that next level of fame/stardom you need to be a 'plug-in' guy. As in, "plug in (insert wrestler) against Punk and its money". For Punk it seems like you need a great angle to make it buzzworthy, and that's too hard to keep up.
ReplyDeleteYeah I started becoming a pretty active poster here right around the time that happened.
ReplyDeleteI think we're in for a Smarktastic Raw tonight.
ReplyDeleteI don't think this particular arguement holds water, though, because those are not corresponding examples from Punk and Austin's runs.
ReplyDeleteAustin's "Summer of Punk" moment wasn't Wrestlemania 13, or even the "Austin 3:16" promo. It was the Mike Tyson angle and Mania 14 match. Everything preceding that was important (Austin 3:16, the Hart feud), and got Austin over within the wrestling world, but the Tyson deal was when he cracked the mainstream and had a legit chance to REALLY bring in a new audience. Everything before that angle was contained in the wrestling bubble.
So I'd say that era of Austin, the pre-Tyson/McMahon/title era, that would be more accurately compared to Punk's WHC runs and teh Straight Edge society. That's where Punk got himself over with the wrestling crowd (as a heel, much like Austin), started creating a resume, and became a known quantity. And just like with Austin, they made some major mistakes in that period (jobbing him in a title match to Taker— wow, things never change, huh?) that could have derailed him but his popularity overcame that. Christ, a month before "Summer of Punk" Punk was jobbing in tag title matches to Big Show and Kane. That's a million times weaker position than Austin was ever in before the Tyson moment.
I'd argue that, unlike with Summer of Punk, once Austin hit mainstream popularity with Tyson the WWF played his angle 100% perfectly. Every episode of the show in that time period was built around Austin, giving him memorable angles and moments and victories. The focus never shifted. It was consistently a show about Stone COld as the coolest, most bad-ass motherfucker on the planet and a line of heels whose asses he would kick. And again, they had the owner of the company, playing one of the best wrestling villain characters of all-time, stooging for Austin every week. From the Tyson angle all the way through Mania 15 the following year I'd say they put together one of the most sustained, focused "push this guy to the moon" angles that WWF has ever had.
Not to sound like I'm low-balling Austin, because holy shit he brought the goods in every way possible— but to say that the booking and angle weren't important, no way man. Punk never had a chance to become that big of a star because the show was never allowed to be about him as the hero. Austin got that (and Rock got it in 2000) and that's a huge reason why they achieved what they did.
Still, it made sense for Austin to lose back then. He was a rising star in 1997 at WM 13 and the Cold Day in Hell PPV (Taker was getting a lot more cheers in that match, so Austin probably wasn't truly solidified as a main event player quite yet). But once it was clear that Austin had tapped into something over the summer of 97, he didn't really bend to anyone's will or look weak until maybe Judgment Day 98 when he willingly got himself fired in the storyline.
ReplyDeleteThe timelines just don't match up with these two. Punk was a rising star in 2008 as a face and 09-10 as a heel. He surprised folks by becoming a legit main event player in 2011, but they should have never made him look weak and having to play second fiddle to HHH.
However, I agree with many of your points about Austin. He was simply a stronger force and a more vibrant and relatable personality than Punk. Punk needed more control and more time to play with. When they started botching the Summer of Punk, Punk tried that stupid vomiting gag during one of those interviews, for instance.
If the stars aligned absolutely perfectly, he goes mainstream like the ones you mentioned. But that's not realistic. Realistic but optimistic would have been being that cool rebel crossover character (like, 90210 never shattered ratings records but we knew who Luke Perry was) and essentially getting to a Ric Flair or Randy Savage Q rating.
Are they still in LA?
ReplyDeleteI fear we might be the same person sometimes. I agree with you way too much
ReplyDeleteTwo Faces of Petuka.
ReplyDeleteI understand your misgivings, after all, it was a very hot angle, and while it did get Punk over...I can see why you'd think it could've started another boom period.
ReplyDeleteOf course both of us are speaking from absolute conjecture here. The people who know exactly what people want are making millions of dollars in marketing. I am not one of those people.
Again, I think you're underestimating how well-handled Austin's post-Tyson run was.
ReplyDeleteYeah, they plugged in a variety of opponents against Austin, but they key was that A) It was always at the behest of the main villain, Mr. McMahon. he was the unifying force. B) Austin's feud was always the absolute focus of the show. Multiple segments per show, announcers talked about Austin during OTHER segments, and they reserved lots of memorable spots for Austin's storylines.
Everything Austin did—whether he was programmed against Foley, Kane, Taker, whoever— was treated as a huge deal and the goal was to keep putting Austin over.
Compare that to Punk getting stuck in a B-feud with Nash, jobbing to Triple H, never getting revenge on either man, jobbing to Awesome Truth, being part of a triangle feud with Del Rio and Cena, and then becoming the B-storyline as champion. Austin's prime run never dealt with booking like that, even for a second.
Again, had HHH turned heel at Summerslam 2011 and played "Mr. McMahon" to Punk, with ADR as the corporate champ, and Cena had ACTUALLY taken a back seat to him— well then who knows. At the very least at least the context would have been similar to what Austin was working with.
Youre rationalizing things because youre a punk fan. I dont think youre being objective but thats just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI should probably wait till after Raw to post this, but I'm 8 Stoli on the rocks deep after a shitty day at work...I know everyone out there hates HHH (justified and unjustified) but his involvement was pretty perfect within the context of the story they were telling. Before we all start looking at this as a rehash of HHH v Punk from 2 years ago, let's see where it goes. All the signs of a great upcoming angle are there. This could be the greatest angle ever and I bet it would get shit on just because HHH is a central figure.
ReplyDeleteIf HHH comes out and buries Bryan and is in 8 segments tonight, Ill retract everything. .
Brock did a great job keeping up with Punk's moves. i was surprised since it was also a really long match
ReplyDelete8 Stolis? Wow.
ReplyDeleteTyped words on a white background are the best way to convey subtle, nuanced sarcasm.
ReplyDeleteWhoops.
ReplyDeleteNo foolies?
ReplyDelete