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The X-Division

Hey Scott,

After watching Impact Wrestling on demand when I'm bored , I've noticed the whole trade-in the X Division title for a shot at the World title scenario. When did this start? Has it always been like that? I never seem to remember this.

TNA has been hailed by so many for doing so much for cruiserweights. However, isn't the idea of even having a separate title and division for these guys counter-productive? You're basically telling the audience these guys aren't worthy of fighting for the "main event title" so we'll create their own title. WCW did it, WWE did it. For the last 10 years, I'd say TNA has actually hurt that style of wrestling more than it has helped it, imo. Especially now that you can trade the title in just for a shot at the big boys title.

I'd love to see them just have the World Championship and the World Tag Titles. I'd then do the Bellator approach and have tournaments to get a number 1 contender for both titles. All those talented cruiserweights would join everyone else on the roster and go through the tournament to get their shot. So much more interesting and fun than simply trading in your title for another one.

What do you think of this idea?
 

Taking business tips from Bellator seems like a good way to lose money.

Anyway, the deal with cashing in the X title is called Option C and debuted last year with Austin Aries doing it on Bobby Roode, and it was supposed to be an annual tradition for Destination X before they decided to stop doing PPVs.  The X title itself was fine as a secondary belt as long as there was interesting workers and storylines behind it, but Kenny King really killed that thing dead.  Which is nothing against Kenny, but he screams curtain jerker, not champion, and he was just the wrong guy completely for a long-term reign as champion.  RVD was the opposite problem, coming off as a guy way above the level of that belt.  As with anything, it's not the titles, it's the booking and storylines around the titles.  



Comments

  1. The X-Division died once AJ and Joe moved on. After that you had guys like Russo and Nash who had no idea what to do with it.


    In it's heyday, the X-Division was an actual division with 8-10 guys and a midcard. Now it is basically 2 guys at a time, the champ and the challenger. The Knockouts Division has the same problem, but not quite as bad.

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  2. I am surprised Russo never wanted to rename it the SEX Division or something because... well Russo...

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  3. Once upon a time, the X-Division title had more credibility than the NWA title.

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  4. TNA screwed up the X Division in 2005 when they didn't turn the entire company into the X Division. Had to devote time to Jeff Jarrett's title feuds with whatever ex-ECW flavour of the week was drifting through the company, I guess.

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  5. X division as good as it was, didn't make money enough to warrant a drastic change of the company's style.


    What you are talking about is a complete rebranding of a company with a super niche following.


    You would have killed the company faster by putting no names on the marquee

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  6. I think they didn't leave the belt on King long ENOUGH! Dude is money on the mic and in the ring. They just needed to find a character, stick to it and give him some big wins. He came off as a perpetual loser with the belt, and the stupid "all triple threats" rule didn't help.

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  7. Kenny King stinks. That's a guy who was given a lot of hype and after seeing him in TNA for the past year, he is awful. No charisma, average worker, a little a sloppy. I was completely mislead by how good he was or wasn't.

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  8. Your_Favourite_AssholeAugust 12, 2013 at 10:01 AM

    well in the early days of tna he led a heel faction called Sportz Entertainment Xtreme...

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  9. You wanted to turn TNA into Ring of Honor with an all X-Division focus? That has not worked for ROH, what makes you think it would've worked for TNA?

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  10. They HAD no names on the marquee. Nobody gave a shit about Jarrett or Rhino or Raven or Monty Brown or Team 3D or whomever. Maybe Jeff Hardy, but there's no reason he could not have competed against the X guys at the time. Same with Sting, even if he didn't fit the mold.



    TNA was trying to compete with WWE. Their biggest heavyweight attractions were either washed up, drugged out, complete rejects or a combination of the three. At least with Styles, Joe, Daniels, Sabin, Williams, Shelley and the like you could offer something different. They were doing mindblowing stuff at the time: the kind that gets attention.

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  11. That only lasted for awhile before people got tired of seeing the same guys doing the same spots. X-Division has been considered one of the lowest rated segments for TNA throughout their time on Spike TV.

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  12. If pro wrestling is supposed to be "real" (at least within the context of the show), it makes far less sense for there not to be a title for smaller guys (i.e. under 225 or so). If you are going to have smaller talent, there should be some sort of brass ring for them to chase. Every other legitimate, sanctioned combat sport that people are familiar with (MMA, boxing, etc.) has weight divisions, because it makes no sense (and would probably be quite dangerous) for everything to be open-weight.

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  13. Not really. They are both props.

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  14. Could you explain to me how any Jeff Jarrett main event match worked for TNA, please? Or perhaps you could point out anyone from their non-X feuds at the time who got over as a star.

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  15. And now EVERY segment is low-rated. Such a victory. Glad they stuck to their convictions.

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  16. It was Jarrett's company. He wanted to put himself over in his own company. As a fan, you either put up with it or you didn't watch.


    What great X-Division match has made any money for TNA?



    For all the love that Joe/Daniels/Styles series of matches got, those were not seen by anybody.


    The biggest money match TNA ever had was Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe from Lockdown 2009.

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  17. You're wrong.


    If you look up the ratings / quarter hour ratings, you would find that Knockouts still get a high rating for their segments. The dreaded Hulk Hogan gets a high quarter rating for his segments

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  18. Ace in the Hole, Triple X and Disco.

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  19. ...which would still have worked if they'd jettisoned their shitty upper card in favour of the likes of Joe/Daniels/Styles

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  20. Your_Favourite_AssholeAugust 12, 2013 at 10:13 AM

    are those membesr? cause i remember tons o' peeps, like aj, sabin, siaki, prob kaz and shane/bentley

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  21. Yeah, they were. Ace in the Hole was for Sonny Siaki.
    Triple X was for Elix Skipper, Low Ki and Fallen Angle.
    I might be wrong on Disco but I remember that he wrestled under Glen Gilburtti with them.

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  22. When your show gets a 0.96, every segment is low-rated. (Hey! That's up from 0.8! TWO MONTH LATE BONUSES FOR EVERYONE!!)

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  23. Your_Favourite_AssholeAugust 12, 2013 at 10:15 AM

    i def know who xxx is, foo'!

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  24. Just curious what promos or matches he had that would lead one to believe he's "money", because everything I saw him do was pretty average.

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  25. You really need to do your research. Also, going by last week's rating is silly. Why not use the entire ratings year of 2013 just to be fair.

    Here I will do it for you. Just in millions of viewers for this year:

    1/3/2013 1,618,000

    1/10/2013 1,300,000

    1/17/2013 1,600,000

    1/24/2013 1,572,000

    1/31/2013 1,580,000

    2/7/2013 1,412,000

    2/14/2013 1,300,000

    2/21/2013 1,352,000

    2/28/2013 1,490,000

    3/7/2013 1,425,000

    3/14/2013 1,410,000

    3/21/2013 1,387,000

    3/28/2013 1,310,000

    4/4/2013 1,425,000

    4/11/2013 1,170,000

    4/18/2013 1,268,000

    4/25/2013 1,230,000

    5/2/2013 1,104,000

    5/9/2013 1,270,000

    5/16/2013 1,050,000

    5/23/2013 1,379,000

    5/30/2013 1,016,000

    6/6/2013 1,100,000

    6/13/2013 1,203,000

    6/20/2013 1,083,000

    6/27/2013 1,108,000

    7/4/2013 1,053,000

    7/11/2013 1,190,000

    7/18/2013 Destination X 1,494,000

    7/25/2013 1,314,000

    8/1/2013 1,246,000

    8/8/2013 1,179,000



    Credit: PWINSIDER.com


    I will do the ratings if I have time.

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  26. Need to get your facts straight. Yes, last week show got a .96 rating BUT for the past 3 weeks prior, since the Destination X special, they were getting a 1.0 rating and getting between 1.2 to 1.4 million viewers.

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  27. He had several good to great matches in ROH, and his matches in TNA were fine, even against unmotivated RVD and the heatless/botchtacular Zema Ion.


    As far as the mic goes, I know you disagree, but I loved almost all his promos, especially the one he cut face-to-face on Chris Sabin. I thought it was really strong, confident mic work.

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  28. And this proves what, exactly? These are not big numbers. TNA was drawing percentages only slightly lower at 11PM on Saturday nights when they debuted. A few midnight replays in 2006 on Mondays were comparable to some of their Prime Time Thursday numbers.

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  29. It's the highest rated show on its network by a huge margin. You're comparing its ratings to Raw or Breaking Bad, and that's your mistake. They aren't "terrible ratings" by any measure of cable television. Bellator DREAMS of viewership numbers like that for its weekly shows.

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  30. Kevin Nash's X-Division was awesome! The best wrestling comedy of the last decade, for my money. PCS!

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  31. I don't think he is as bad as Scott makes him out to be... but he desperately needs some sort of gimmick because right now he just SCREAMS Indy4Life.

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  32. Is Bellator profitable?

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  33. To further that, in UFC at least the heavyweight title has not always been the #1 draw... and probably isn't right now (UFC is God awful boring to me anymore so I have lost track of what's hot and what's not)

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  34. I wouldn't go that far, I'd say he has above average skills at least on the mic and in the ring, but thing is, he's a young guy that has a ton of potential to blossom into something special, so long you give him people to learn from and keep him motivated.

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  35. His lack of gimmick is what gets me. He is just a guy, with a regular dude's name, in a pair of trunks doing a bunch of bouncy moves that aren't something other guys can't do. He isn't awful... but he just seems like a guy who fit right in if he were in front of 50 fans in a VFW... come to think of it he is perfect for TNA!

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  36. King stood out in ROH for a while because he (and Rhett Titus) had some charisma when they were nearly void of it. That said, he had his best matches against the likes of Davey Richards who has had way better ones with others.

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  37. I can name at least two major wrestling promotions where the heavyweight title has not been the top belt.

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  38. Those being? (Title and promotion)

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  39. That's a very flawed argument.

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  40. New Japan (for many years) & CMLL (to this day).

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  41. You are clearly not a Real American! Zeb Colter JUDGES you!

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  42. There is a big difference. TNA's best ratings year was in 2011. You compared that to their first year on Spike TV in the fall of 2005, there is a huge difference in number of viewers.

    Here's my point. Vince Russo, in an interview after he left TNA back in 2012, said that if a Christopher Daniels vs AJ Styles match on Impact could have attained a good rating with a great viewership, it would have made his job a lot easier. But it did not because that was something the television audience did not want to watch so he continued booking his style of what viewers liked.

    Think about that statement. How much of an indictment is that on X - Division and the wrestlers in the X - Division themselves?

    A small group of fans online may like an all X - Division company but that does not the TV audience will.

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  43. He is not a young guy anymore. He has been wrestling at least since 2002. I just feel that he was overhyped just a bit.

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  44. NWA title has not meant anything since Ric Flair first appeared in the WWE with the big gold belt on WWE prime time in 1992. Since then, NWA belt has meant nothing for over 20 years.

    NWA had no credibility for two decades.

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  45. Those are all good points and I will back off part of my stance.


    However, I still argue in their early days when the X Division was the best part of the company (Hands down. No question. Better than their main event. Best part), they had a shot to establish their own identity. They are STILL looking for that identity.


    I feel personally that if they had spent a year trying to build it, the addition of Angle at the end of 06 would have been an elevation. Instead, his addition elevated all but one person. Not Jarrett. Not Sting. But the X Division's Samoa Joe. That would have had a trickle down effect, but because Joe had to abandon his X compatriots to "prove himself" against stiffs like Scott Steiner (which is ridiculous. He was a statue in WWE and even more like a statue in TNA), it did far less than it should have.

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  46. Charismatic e-Negro Jef VinsonAugust 12, 2013 at 11:05 AM

    "RVD was the opposite problem, coming off as a guy way above the level of that belt."
    I have no problem with a upper level guy winning a secondary belt, provided that he is there to put over up and coming talent. This is why I hated HHH not wanting to win the IC belt. He could have defended it against top challengers but he made it seem like it was garbage to the point they actually got rid of it and it's never been the same since.

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  47. Charismatic e-Negro Jef VinsonAugust 12, 2013 at 11:07 AM

    The X Division got screwed when they took focus and direction from it, IMO. That (and the KO division) is what made it stand out and they tried their best to kill both.

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  48. I respect your opinion. I definitely respect your opinion. Don't get me wrong, I always loved the X - Division and you are right that the early days of X - Division were truly the best.

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  49. You just said "They are both props in a fake sport". Now you are telling me the NWA title hasn't meant anything in 20 years. That's a contradictory statement.


    All I said was that the X-Division title had more credibility than TNA's World Heavyweight title (which I believe you don't even know was once the NWA title).

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  50. Do you have a when for NJPW being Junior focused--because Most of what I hear from Japan is that they have a long tradition of size=legitimacy. I'd guess this must have been when Jushin Liger was on top. My understanding now is that their top Junior in Devitt is moving into the big boys heavyweight division?

    I know that the lightweights are respected in Japan I've rarely heard them called the top draw

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  51. "TNA's World Heavyweight title (which I believe you don't even know was once the NWA title)"


    Except they aren't the same title--TNA used the NWA title till they broke away from them and invented their own, It's only because they now have a different lineage that Bobby Roode is the longest reigning champion in History.

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  52. Uhhhhhhhhhhh,.....the X-division was a huge reason that they got a deal with Spike

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  53. I know this. I just don't think he knew this.

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  54. The HW title in MMA has been an afterthought from the point where they first divided up the weight classes. HW is almost ALWAYS the weakest division in MMA. 205 was UFC's money division for years. Right now UFC's money division seems to be 170 given that GSP is their #1 draw and they could right now put together 1 of 6 different matchups that would guaranteed draw 500k buys in that division.

    Even if PRIDE where they had Fedor, Crocop, Nog all in their primes the HW division was not PRIDE's focus; Fedor vs. Crocop was the exception and not the rule.

    MMA and submission grappling are different from boxing in that the sport is fundamentally different in higher weights. Different techniques only open up once you pass a certain threshold of strength. Also certain submissions become much more dangerous when very large men are doing them; arms break much easier when a 250 lb man is cranking on them even when the other guy is also 250 lbs and ripped. Other moves become less effective.

    Plus there's the fact that the HW division almost always sucks. Guys that big who have the athleticism to do MMA are usually doing something else.

    The difference is that UFC/boxing treat all weight classes evenly. Floyd is boxing's #1 draw (by far) so they don't kill his drawing power by showing Vitali Klitschko slap him around a bit. UFC doesn't have GSP grapple with Cain and show that "he's not that good". Why wrestling hasn't figured out how to keep lighter weight champions away from the HW champion or even US/IC champions away from the HW champion is beyond me.

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  55. I always thought that a perfect angle for RVD in TNA would have been for him to go after the X title from the start saying he was tired of wrestling with limits and restrictions and wanted to go back to the old RVD.

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  56. Charismatic e-Negro Jef VinsonAugust 12, 2013 at 11:43 AM

    Or wrestle ECW-style matches.

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  57. TNA was long gone from the NWA proper well before they created their own championships. Their only deal with the NWA for most of their run with them was a licensing agreement to use the NWA world & world tag team titles.

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  58. Kevin Nash's X-Division was funny. And it also pretty much killed off the division. Typical Big Poochy - the ratings will crash, the wrestling will be horrible, the only goal will be to put big Kev over. But there will be lots of laughs.

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  59. I always thought him going after the now (hopefully) defunct TV Title and wanting to better his ECW run.

    Setting a goal is always a pretty cool storyline.

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  60. I'd say the X Div was long dead even before Kenny King took the title, to be fair.

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  61. I fail to see how it killed the division. Guys like Alex Shelley and Jay Lethal had zero heat before that stuff. It gave them characters and a chance (especially in Shelley's part) to show off their personalities.


    Without the Nash stuff, we may not have gotten the MCMG. Black Machismo made Lethal some decent money in merchandise sales (while it did shoehorn him into a go-nowhere gimmick, granted), and Sabin was put over in a big way.


    Plus, bottom line -- it was entertaining as hell, which is the point of all this stuff to me as a fan. TNA can worry about their bottom line.

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  62. GSP is definitely the number one draw, with Anderson and Jon Jones (185 pounds and 205 pounds, respectively) right behind.


    And the best division in MMA is easily the UFC's lightweight division, followed by the welterweights and (arguably) the featherweights.


    HW has only meant something from a drawing perspective with Randy Couture and (to a much greater extent) Brock Lesnar.

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  63. Vince Russo is a lazy prick. Viewers will watch what they're given a reason to watch. Russo never gave the fans a reason to care about AJ vs. Daniels. He simply stuck them in the ring and expected that to draw. That never draws. Hogan draws because he's had thirty years of backstory to give fans a reason to care about him, Sting twenty-five, and Angle over ten. AJ and Daniels worked indys until TNA. No one had ever heard of them, so of course no one is going to care if you don't give them a reason to.

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  64. Charismatic e-Negro Jef VinsonAugust 12, 2013 at 12:44 PM

    It was when Hogan got there.
    This is what kills me about today's wrestling: Not everyone is world championship material. There needs to be secondary belts, but when you follow TNA and the WWE's model and get rid of them (or reduce them to nothing) you have a bunch of wrestlers that are not World Championship material spinning their wheels.

    This is why I liked the old NWA and JCP. There were a lot of regional and secondary belts, but everyone chased them all the same because they knew it would lead to future world title shots. Sting never had a problem going after a tag title with a partner or the TV title

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  65. That's incorrect.

    Spike TV wanted a replacement for the WWE after the WWE returned to USA network.. Jeff Jarrett met with Spike TV executives and sold them the potential of gaining the viewers lost by RAW leaving. Spike TV signed TNA impact to air and have played a role in helping TNA sign big names like Hulk Hogan and Sting.

    Spike TV would not accept a wrestling showed filled with young X-Division wrestlers with no real name value.

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  66. That's fair. I give you that. But, to use Styles as an example, this past year alone he has been given a push as the one that will "save" TNA from Bully Ray and Aces and Eight's. The results so far are that the viewers are not buying it as are the people in attendance who are not accepting AJ as a top guy.

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  67. No, some of us on here have "HOPED" that AJ would have come back as a potential "savior". At this point, he's not ruined, but definitely not the best option any longer.


    And I'd argue that there's no "best" options left, or at least none that would work on short notice.

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  68. it was entertaining as hell, which is the point of all this stuff to me as a fan. We don't always agree, but we do here. I think the bottom line thing is a justification for our opinions being more than just our opinions. It's validation.



    I wasn't really paying attention to Kevin Nash: X-Division but my memory was that it got cut short. I think that there's been a lot of laughable revisionist history re: Big Kev but if memory serves the point of Kevin Nash: X-Champ was to get over whoever beat him.

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  69. I'd say without at least a little credibility, Shane Douglas in 1994 has no standing when he dumps the belt to declare himself ECW World Heavyweight Champion.


    Granted, it's not like Shane Douglas, NWA World Champ would have made any real money... but at least the name NWA meant something then.

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  70. You're right about TNA's identity. But TNA, and especially Russo, are way too impatient for their own good. Why not build to Samoa Joe vs. Angle at Slammiversary and put Joe over there?

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  71. What about the WWE? The world title is the focus, not the heavyweight belt. I'll see myself out.

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  72. Has RVD done anything different since 2001?

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  73. That's a great point. I didn't think of that one. I agree.

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  74. Vinson, let's open a rim shop in Baltimore because I like you.



    Nowadays it seems like everyone gets at least a cup of coffee with a world title. But you think about guys like Mr. Perfect, Arn Anderson, Jake Roberts, Ted DiBiase, Razor Ramon, and Roddy Piper, those are all guys who never held world titles.



    The lack of midcard belt importance ties into another pet peeve: champions losing non-title matches. It used to be that you could get a title shot by holding a mid-card belt for a while.

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  75. Yeah fair enough - it did seem like the plug was pulled on the whole thing too early.

    And I did really enjoy his skits with Alex Shelley. I'm probably letting my own personal dislike towards Nash distort my memory.

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  76. While I'm amused by some of the revisionist history about Nash my biggest bone to pick with him is that after 1996 he always seemed to be absent when it was time to put someone over.

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  77. It was Corluzzo (sic) trying to attach the dying NWA to Eastern and its hottest star to the NWA title in order to revive the alliance rather than the other way around.


    ECW was really the biggest affiliate out of the NWA at the time and Douglas was its anointed guy, so it would behoove the NWA to put the title on him to try have him draw around the country at any and every two bit NWA promotion around the country to get some buzz.

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  78. I remember Meltzer saying in a podcast that the triple threat at Unbreakable was a main reason to why Spike made a deal with them.

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  79. My mistake. It was Lockdown 2008.

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  80. The NWA title had very little credibility left by the time Shane threw it down. But what tiny smidgen of prestige and credibility it had left was flushed down the toilet when Shane did it.

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  81. Eastern was already under the NWA banner... turning into Extreme was the "official" ditching of them.


    Right decision for ECW? Absolutely. It gave them a fair chunk of the "difference" they held over WCW and WWF for a few years.

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  82. I think the problem with the AJ push is that TNA doesn't know where they're going with it. I'd argue he hasn't been cast as a savior yet. He's only been presented as a guy who turned his back on the company at this point. The Aces stuff a month or two back is where he should have been saved for later in the BFG series so it could have been an impetus for AJ becoming the company's savior. But they're hedging their bets on AJ, as they always have, by running Magnus as the other possible savior.



    I also think the BFG Series booking has hurt him. This new attitude should have led to one of two things: either AJ's at the top of the pack or he's at the bottom. The former could have led into an eventual conflict with Aces where he realizes he can't go it alone, while the latter could have been used to show him that a blind pursuit of money doesn't automatically help you succeed, which could have then caused him to double down and come from the bottom to win the series.

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  83. Remember when, in storyline, the Intercontinental Champion was actually the #1 Contender by default until the notion of #1 Contender Matches entered the picture in the late '90s?

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  84. Also, the World Title distinction is a little hazy. Hennig held the AWA Title when it was on the downward slide, but it was still considered a World Title at that point (only a few years removed from the Tsuruta reign). The others I'd agree on, as they all held regional titles, but Hennig was a World Champion, just not a World Champion in the WWF or WCW.

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  85. The U.S. Title did the same at times in NWA/WCW...

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  86. Charismatic e-Negro Jef VinsonAugust 12, 2013 at 7:20 PM

    I remember when the Mid-Atlantic Heavyweight belt was called the "stepping Stone" title because a lot of future World champions wore it.

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  87. You are thinking of the Missouri title.

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  88. Sting was working with TNA long before they had a deal with Spike.

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  89. Prior to signing with TNA in january 2005, Sting only made a couple of appearances with TNA when they were on a weekly ppv.

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  90. I read about the history of TNA, and I remember reading reports form Wrestling observer as well saying that TNA had to bring stars in in order to make Spike TV happy. The first episode had Dudley Boyz and Kevin Nash, guys who bigger names than anybody in the X-Division.

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