Couple of e-mails on the topic of Darren Young this morning…
So, gay people simply want to be treated equally and no differently than straight people, right?
Great! I'm all for that (including making gay marriage perfectly legal everywhere).
But then what's with all the hoopla and press releases, and Twitter flood "congratulating" him as if announcing that he's gay is some big accomplishment akin to winning the Olympics?
So Darren says "I'm gay"
"Fine. I'm glad you're happy with your partner, but beyond that, so what?" says I.
The WWE, the media/social media, and the wrestling fan universe is treating this as if it's some kind of big accomplishment that he happens to be gay.
If being gay is ever to truly be normalized in society, we need to stop these meaningless celebrations that amount to people congratulating him based on who he's sleeping with, simply so they can feel smug about how accepting and tolerant they are.
I just think it's odd and patronizing behavior on WWE's part.
But besides that, he's in a business that is still very much a few decades behind when it comes to defining what a gay person is. In the wrestling world, a gay person is either a cross-dressing hypersexual pervert (Goldust), or a mincing, lisping, ultra-effeminate stereotypical queen.
Either character plays to the audience for the sole purpose of alienating the audience in some way or another, and playing on their pre-conceived notions of what being gay is all about.
It was only 11 years ago that we had the Billy And Chuck characters (who I would hardly call positively-portrayed gay characters) and even then the WWE flaked out on the "wedding' with the swerve angle.
I'm not blaming Darren himself for coming out, I'm blaming the way the WWE (and the wrestlers/staff) are handling this entire situation. They're in such a hurry to show how tolerant they are, that they don't realize that they're handling this situation entirely differently than if (say) he announced that he was getting married to a woman.
In other words, they're discriminating against him by treating him differently (good intentions aside). Which is kind of ironic...
WWE doing something weird and patronizing? Perish the thought.
And then this one…
Now that Darren Young is on the receiving end of so much positive mainstream attention, do you think he'll get the proverbial rocket strapped to his ass? (probably a bad choice of metaphors, I know...)
I predict a belt around his waist within 21 days and dare anyone to bet against it.
Geez, the guy comes out of the closet and now you want to punish him by making him a secondary champion in WWE? Are you TRYING to destroy his career or something? Being gay can easily be turned into a positive in the media, but once you get the IC title, you might as well pack it in.
Still laughing at the "rocket" comment.
ReplyDeleteKind of on topic, but here's a pretty decent and short interview with Orton, talking Young, Summerslam, motivation and few other things. Of note: he puts over the Shield.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc8W6E_uBRU
heh heh he said pack it in
ReplyDelete"...you might as well pack it in. "
ReplyDeleteDarren has experience doing this with fudge! Because he is gay you see...
:: Gets pulled off stage by a giant hook ::
He was on the Today Show this morning. Such excellent timing for the WWE, having someone come out right before SummerSlam....
ReplyDeleteThis a publicity stunt on the WWE's part, nothing more. I'm pretty sure they've known he was gay for a while and could've have done this at any point. Just trying to get that precious "mainstream publicity" before a big show since no one cares about the WWE outside of WrestleMania anymore.
I laughed, but felt REALLY bad about it.
ReplyDeleteYeah, silly for-profit companies trying to make money. How dare they.
ReplyDeleteDid the downvote assuage your conscious?
ReplyDeleteLetter writer: please do some research on systemic/institutionalized oppression. What it means, the results from it, etc.
ReplyDeleteWhen someone comes out in this fashion (as the first of his kind), to be quiet and ignore it means the only sound you'll hear are the people decrying it and trying to shame others away from doing it too.
You will never live in the world you are imagining, where homosexuals are truly equal with heterosexuals. That world is at least a couple generations away, probably more. You will be long dead. This, however, is a good (and necessary) first step.
If it bothers you that gay people get props for announcing that they're gay while you get nothing as a straight man, ask yourself, "would I rather be gay or straight, or do I truly not care?" Think long and hard about why you answered "straight" to that question.
no other comments are needed beyond the one above
ReplyDeleteNope. Didn't even touch either of them.
ReplyDeleteNot tooooo off topic, but why are there no straight people parades? I don't mean Macy's or the Rose Bowl parade or whatever the hell they have. Look, I am not homophobic or racist or any of that other shit. I am a middle class, suburban-living white guy who thinks that the sensitivity of the times is getting a little too nauseating. I really do not give a crap if the LGBT community gets their equal rights or not. If they do, good for them. If they don't, who cares. What I DO see is gays wanting equal rights and to be treated the same as everyone else, but they do things like have their gay pride parades, where they dress in leather, or women's clothing. What do straight people do to celebrate their heterosexuality? Watch football with their buddies, while BBQing, or going to strip clubs, or punch each other in the face. And then when someone is critical of the whole deal, they are labelled as evil, or intolerant. Insensitive is more appropriate, but why should someone's insensitivity get under some skin? Society needs to find their balls that they left behind in the 90's, put them back in place, and lose the vagina. The metaphorical one, not the literal one. Literal vaginas need to be bowed to.
ReplyDeleteFunny article from Kayfabe News:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.kayfabenews.com/im-gay-admits-athlete-in-worlds-gayest-sport/
This. I'd also ask any doubters when they "decided" to be straight.
ReplyDeleteThere are no out athletes currently under contract in any of the four major US Sports. This took courage. Hopefully, someday soon, it won't be as newsworthy.
Didn't we already go through this once with Jason Collins?
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with the first email. I really enjoy the crowd that says it's not news or not a big deal but CONGRATULATIONS ON LIKING DUDES!!
ReplyDeleteIt more bothers me the people that clearly think it is a big deal but like to say it isn't a big deal. If you think it is a big deal then fine, but don't patronize me and others by saying this isn't news but congrats!!
ReplyDeleteYou *do* have straight people parades, they're called day to day life.
ReplyDeleteBut but Meltzer said!
ReplyDeleteEwwwww
ReplyDeleteIt's news because treating gay people like human beings is a new thing.
ReplyDelete"Society needs to find their balls that they left behind in the 90's"
ReplyDeleteYou're making me feel old...
Anyways, in the 90s, people said the same thing about the 80s and so forth. Then, there's a portion of the population that wants things to go back to the good ol' days, the 50s.
People need to live in the now.
He isn't wrong. It's kind of like asking why there isn't a White History Month. The discussion has been had on the internet from the 101 level to the professor level. The answers to these questions can be found through googling, but it will take more than a few minutes (or hours) to cover every angle of complex issues.
ReplyDeleteDownvoter: got a counter-argument?
ReplyDelete"Just trying to get that precious "mainstream publicity" before a big show since no one cares about the WWE outside of WrestleMania anymore."
ReplyDeleteHAHA no.
Heterosexuality is celebrated throughout our culture. Every second of every day. Do you not consume mainstream media in any way? Watch a movie. Look at a magazine cover. Spend five seconds online. When you are the MAJORITY you do not have to fight for rights and recognition. I don't need to "celebrate" my hetrosexuality. Nobody has ever thrown rocks at me for being hetro. Nobody has ever not hired me because I'm hetro. Nobody has ever looked at me and thought I was less of a human being because I'm hetro.
ReplyDeleteAs a straight white male, this kind of "do what you want but shut up about it" attitude is embarrassing. You are a member of one of the most privileged group in the history of civilization. The only way you could get more privileged would be if you were born into a wealthy family. Please do not try to paint yourself as hard done by because occasionally you can hear the sounds of somebody fighting for their rights as it wafts into your backyard.
But no, you're not a homophobe or a racist or any of that shit. Unless you have to hear about homosexuality. Because that's just ridiculous. You should only ever have to hear about things you like, 100% of the time.
I did enjoy the awesome sexist remark to close out your rant though. If only we could find our balls again! Goshdarnit. Who let all these gays and women take over everything. My white maleness is being oppressed by holding the vast majority of the western world's wealth and power. Grumble.
Here's a good example of why it's a 'big deal' to come out as gay - http://youtu.be/v-55wC5dEnc?t=1m51s (It's essentially the story of how gay people got the term 'fag' associated with him, and kind of shows why a lot of folks are very very very guarded about their sexuality)
ReplyDeleteThat said, I can understand why people kind of see the hypocrisy of wanting to be treated equally but at the same time celebrating this thing that makes them different. I guess my view on the whole thing is, ultimately if it's part of your culture you're allowed to whatever you want, but have to understand that whatever your general cultural identity is, you can't get mad when folks poke fun of it.
Like when Colbert said LGBT sounds like a frozen yogurt chain (TCBY) I thought it was hilarious, but GLAAD had a problem with it, which irked me to now end.
Its a douchey phrase from a poster who's better than that. I don't have an opinion on the content of his statement because I don't care.
ReplyDeleteI don't get it, man. Don't you have the capability for empathy? Can't you imagine being a gay child, how difficult that would be, and *why* it's difficult. And therefore why things like Gay Pride and having visible role models are essential?
ReplyDeleteDo you feel the same way about black people? If yes, forget the question. But if no, you wouldn't talk about black people like that ("what's up with their hair? and their noses?"), then what's the difference in your opinion?
Also this really needs a stadler and waldorff!
ReplyDeleteTo borrow a phrase, this guy gets it.
ReplyDeleteI wish one of the stats guys around here, that compile W-L records and buyrate history, would tackle Meltzer's record on these backstage rumors being true or not.
ReplyDeleteYou don't care if people have equal rights?
ReplyDeleteI support peoples right to live how they want but I can't get too excited about a jobber whose ceiling is mid card tag team doing anything. I do enjoy the guys act but he can't work a match. I think he's a really good comedy heel though. So I don't really see the big deal. He's barely a E list celebrity at best, so why all the hoopla. Also if you don't think the mainstream has always associated wrestling with homosexuality your crazy.
ReplyDeleteThat would be awesome.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing he's batting under the "Mendoza" line.
Every other parade is a straight pride parade, just like every day is Straight Person day. It's the same why there's no kid's day when there's mother's day and father's day: every OTHER day is that day.
ReplyDeleteIt's a big deal that hopefully soon will not be one
ReplyDeleteIAF your post is a bumper sticker, not an argument.
ReplyDeleteOh, I can't stand the actual performer Darren Young, but good on him for being so comfortable with something more-or-less unprecedented within his position.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of Jason Collins a bit.
ReplyDeleteThe guy who wrote email #1 doesn't get it.
ReplyDeleteWith Leather's take was that the best case scenario was for this not to affect DY's current run. But we know the E probably won't be able to resist trying to feature him now.
ReplyDeleteBut there's a way to accomplish both, I think, without resorting to cheap theatrics: Let's say the PTP get a win over 3MB and the announcers point out that Young's looking "more energetic" in the ring. Maybe even have him score the pin. Then it's just a matter of Young saying in a promo, "You know, since I announced it to the world, I feel like this enormous pressure is off me. I can really just go out there and be myself to the fullest."
Then you have them score a couple more wins -- one over Team Colter should be particularly easy to root for -- and challenge the Shield. Even in a hard-fought loss, you've gone beyond simple "diversity" (which is often code for representation and nothing but) into equity, because DY's character gets to do something important, and alongside a supportive tag-team partner, to boot.
Jason Collins was awesome on the Nets
ReplyDeleteThe key is, he's featured on television every week, and he's not being defined solely by homosexuality as a gimmick - just being a regular old comedy heel is a victory in and of itself.
ReplyDeleteI like DYoung! Sure, he's no Titus (big Titus mark here), but he's come a long way and his personality (more reserved, a little unsure of himself) meshes well with TO'N.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. "got my own problems, ain't got time for yours." Look, there's a whole world of people who DO care. One guy not caring is going to crush that spirit? You can expand on that and say that there are millions of people who don't care, walk with their head down or look the other way. So what? The community that does care is growing, I acknowledge that. But until someone takes the burden of my troubles away, I'm sorry....I got 99 problems, etc etc...
ReplyDeleteI could add a bunch of filler words to it to make it a paragraph, but they wouldn't add any meaning to it, unless I got way deeper with social justice stuff. The essence of why it is newsworthy, even though it shouldn't be, is because not treating gay people like monsters is still a really, really new concept in society, and something most major companies still do not do.
ReplyDeleteSad bro is sad.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to see the positive reaction this is getting. We'll see what kind of storyline windfall this receives, whether it lasts for a year, six months, seven days, three minutes..
ReplyDelete...
WAIT A MINUTE.
Umm, no. A big man who can't shoot over 42%...just no. Decent defender.
ReplyDeleteThe point, a mediocre talent came out. I applaud him, but until a bigger name, that can make an actual impact comes out, not much will change...unfortunately.
But he has made an actual impact just for being the first player in a "mainstream" sport to do so. I don't know if you get to Robbie Rogers in MLS as quickly without Collins.
ReplyDeleteHe did the dirty work down low. He was a key part of those ECF teams.There's a reason he has been in the league for so long, and it's not because he shoots the ball.
ReplyDeleteDid I just hear myself say three minutes?
ReplyDeleteQuick, someone put 100 lbs on each of the Usos.
ReplyDeleteCenters tend to hang around for a long time, regardless of how much skill they actually have. They are a rare commodity
ReplyDeleteWho's been better in their (professional) sport? Both are definitely scrubs. Collins has made more money and been around longer, but hes never been more than 6 fouls and a big body. Darren young is barely a mid career and he's not good as a worker but he has a definite charisma.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying Collins is any good, because he's not anymore, but I loved watching him on those Nets teams.
ReplyDelete(Nets fan, btW)
Can't coach height
ReplyDeleteYeah, they really need to not tokenize him. If the story gets a ton of mainstream attention on its own, then sure, capitalize on that, but I hate when they take minor mainstream attention and then try to force it to blow up into something bigger. They have hands of ham.
ReplyDeleteThe Shield's push has clearly cooled off
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wrestlecrap.com/headlies/headlies-local-man-didnt-realize-how-much-he-cared-about-darren-young-until-he-came-out/ slightly less funny article from WrestleCrap
ReplyDeleteWrestlecrap is still a thing?
ReplyDeleteyeah, it's got a URL and everything. It's really neat
ReplyDeleteYeah, so are we supposed to be like, "Congrats for liking dick."??
ReplyDeleteMore like, "congrats for feeling confident enough to not have to hide a major part of your identity from the world at large, even if there are countries in that world who will put you in fucking prison just for holding your partner's hand, or put you to death just because of that identity."
ReplyDeleteI have empathy for those in my inner circle, yes. I have a wife...I have a family. Their troubles I care about. The world is a big place, and some of us are spread thin as it is. It could be why there are so many people on anti-depressants...because there is so much shit that they care about it causes them problems. I don't know the answer to that. I do know that my own bubble is a much quieter place when all I care about are the ones around me. But hey, if everyone else wants to take up the cause, please do so. And also know that opinions are like assholes, blah blah blah. I'm glad the Blog is here, or I might explode.
ReplyDeleteCollins was actually a poster boy for the need for more advanced basketball statistics for a while- his stats looked like crap but his on/off stats were consistently amazing- really good defense and mean screens can have a lot of value for the right team when used properly.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand, if you don't care why are you even wading into this discussion? Cause to me it sounds like you DO care... and that you harbor negative opinions of homosexuals. Why does a guy that truly doesn't care wonder why there aren't "straight people parades"?
ReplyDeleteRead your original comment, I'm sorry man but you ARE homophobic. If you're cool with that, fine. But judging by the fact you felt the need to assure us you weren't, I'd say it's not something you aspire to be. And yes, if you harbor similar feelings on race, you are a racist.
If they're in your inner circle it's not really empathy.
ReplyDeleteI might've missed something but I never read the "congratulations" as being "congratulations on being homosexual". I read it as "congratulations for being courageous in being public about things in a time when you're going to run into adversity for not hiding it away".
ReplyDeleteThis is like the 4th time I've said this but... I don't get it.
ReplyDeleteIN OUR LIFETIME we've seen people murdered for being LGBT in the US! Like, just in the past decade! In this country! What world are these guys living in?!?
SMDH...
'Wrestling fans worldwide were infuriated Monday when the right nipple of WWE Diva Natalya stubbornly refused to slip out of her tight-fitting top.
ReplyDeleteDespite seeming precariously close to bursting forth at any moment —
particularly when she was suplexed by opponent Kaitlyn — Natalya’s
nipple remained disappointingly elusive.
Many crestfallen fans felt cheated, since most would not have watched the match if Natalya’s tenacious mammary hadn’t seemed liable to wriggle free from its black-and-pink spandex prison.
“What a rip-off,” tweeted one fan known as @DivaBoobLuvr.
“I swear, that nipple was held back by willpower alone.”
Viewership of Divas matches during WWE programming has skyrocketed in
recent weeks following the popular slippages of nipples belonging to Kaitlyn and Brie Bella.
Natalya’s nipples, however, seem terribly camera shy, leading many to speculate that double-sided tape is somehow involved.
Big E Langston’s nipples, meanwhile, popped out all over the place'
Fair point. A lot of 'minority' organizations only like attention when it's on their terms. If someone else pokes fun, you get accused of being 'insensitive'
ReplyDeleteI came here to make a similar comment because dammit, it was RIGHT THERE!
ReplyDeleteAs a good friend who happens to be a lesbian notes, jokes are funny when they're not malicious and if people want equality, that's one of the first lessons they have to learn.
I'm sorry, this thread is going nowhere, and nobody's opinions have changed but I gotta know...
ReplyDeleteI can sorta understand how some people think we "beat" racism. Like, they don't see overtly racist stuff happening in their day to day lives, and they see a black guy in the White House. And there's tons of black athletes who are treated like gods. And they don't hear about black people getting lynched. I mean, I disagree, I think racism is still a huge issue in our world today (it's gotten better, but we're not there yet), but I can get into the headspace of someone who thinks it's no longer a big deal.
But homophobia? Even if you're a teenager in high school you've heard about people murdered in your lifetime JUST FOR BEING LGBT!!! Like, that was the only reason! You can't paint it some other way, ala George Zimmerman. If they didn't have that 1 characteristic, they'd be alive. What is so hard to understand?!?!?
/head explodes
At least 3 people seem to disagree
ReplyDeleteBRAVO!
ReplyDelete:: Gives this comment a standing O ::
I can't watch the video right now because I am at work (in a red state) but didn't/doesn't the term fag refer to a cigarette in Brittan or something?
ReplyDeleteTo quote the motto of gay icon Bette Midler...
ReplyDelete"Fuck'em if they can't take a joke!"
I'm sorry, but me coming out and saying "I don't care about this topic" just wouldn't be....contributing, I guess. I took a roundabout way of saying "i don't care" while at the same time posting some thoughts the human brain conjures, in the hopes that someone could enlighten me as to why shit is the way it is. All I've seen in return are comments that seem to paint me as a racist homophobe with sexist tendencies, when all I am is an asshole with opinions living in a bubble. Which really is about 8/10 of the North American population.
ReplyDeleteThis. I hate when white people whine about this stuff. A friend who is an upper middle class, heterosexual, white, christian, male likes to complain about this sort of thing constantly. Very annoying. It is basically like complaining "My penis is so big that it hurts when I ride my bike!"
ReplyDeleteI always thought a badass Road Warriors-ish babyface team that happened to be gay would be an interesting concept, but as WWE doesn't do tasteful, maybe it's better that idea doesn't go anywhere.
ReplyDeleteTo quote the motto of gay icon Bette Midler...
ReplyDelete"Fuck'em if they can't take a joke!"
A pro wrestling version of Apollo and Midnighter?
ReplyDeleteYeah, there you go.
ReplyDeleteBetter the Road Warriors than Demolition...
ReplyDeleteReally? None of the comments in this thread enlightened you? I'm seeing a lot of informative responses to you and other posters who share your viewpoints. Look at tortacular's, aboynamedart's, Daniel Swinney's or that handsome Jabber2 guy. You have most of the information.
ReplyDeleteI think it was in the LOD dvd produced by the WWE where Animal says that he and Hawk wore this get up of leather chaps and vest in their first match in the NWA. They were suppose to be a bad ass biker gang but Animal said they resembled The Village People.
ReplyDeleteI agree 100% with the post above....particularly people saying that a man (or woman) is so "courageous" for coming out of the closet, yet they say it "doesn't matter".....Serving your country in the Army? That's a lot more courageous than just simply being yourself.
ReplyDeleteNah....the WWE would have put pink shoulderpads on LOD for merchandising reasons, and completely killed the gimmick altogether
ReplyDeleteAs long as you also consider that people out of the closet weren't allowed to serve in that Army for a long time if they admitted who they really were. And that, while serving in the military is (justly) recognized as being noble, simply being gay was and still is considered by many to be an abomination.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry I just don't get it. This whole thing is based on you you're fucking, and just like I don't like dudes bragging about who they fucked the night before I don't want someone reminding me that they are attracted a another man either. And because I'm not hi-fiving and bumping chests with a dude like Milli-Vanilli doesn't make me homophobic. It means I don't give a fuck.
ReplyDeleteI think this is an example of what Chris Jordan was saying earlier.....sounds like hes saying he doesnt really care either way - it doesnt affect him, yet by not supporting the Gay movement, he gets called homophobic, possible racist, etc. which is BS. I mean if you dont support it nowadays, you're automatically labeled a bigot, hateful etc. Is it no longer okay to agree to disagree?????? (Or to just not even give a crap either way)???
ReplyDeleteYou can be courageous about multiple things. True story.
ReplyDeleteNo! Life was soooo much better in some imagined past that never actually existed!
ReplyDeleteExcept he wasn't bragging about who he was fucking. He was simply saying -- for the first time, in public -- what he is.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, your comment indicates you do give a fuck. Otherwise you'd leave the thread alone. Homophobia isn't limited to out-and-out hate speech, much like racism in a John Grisham novel. And maybe you're not homophobic as a whole, but you're taking a homophobic position.
There are still many parts of the country (and the world) where admitting your gay can lead to discrimination, loss of friendships, estrangement from family, and even physical violence.
ReplyDeleteSo yes, it does take courage. It *shouldn't* matter in an ideal world. But we're not in an ideal world.
Rocco the puppet says they didn't need pink shoulderpads to kill the gimmick.
ReplyDeleteDo you care about equal rights?
ReplyDeleteI HAVE been enlightened! Those of you with thin skin can take solace in the fact that, in future topics of discussion concerning sociotopical matters, there will be some jerk biting his fucking tongue (or typing fingers). However, when the topic comes back to drop toe holds or pulling of the tights, I will provide my two cents. Show's over folks....nothing to see here.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct. You don't get it.
ReplyDeleteTalk about thin skin.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that admitting to liking other dude's can get you harassed, beaten, or killed in this country, in the year 2013, doesn't bother you? Because your attitude of "keep it to yourself" is a part of that culture. This isn't like some long ago problem in a far off land.
ReplyDeleteIs this really what your attitude would be if your little brother was gay? Or your son?
It has nothing to do with sex, it's to do with a lifestyle (or more appropriately a natural orientation) that has generally and historically been met with a change of attitudes (mostly negative) towards. If you realised you were gay, wouldn't you be someone afraid of coming out in public, afraid that some of your friends or your family or work colleagues would see you differently. Take Darren Young or any other person in the entertainment industry who is in the public eye, that fear and unease can only be magnified. So to come out and let the whole world know is (in this modern world) brave and yes, quite commendable.
ReplyDeleteIn summation it's not attention grabbing nor is it an accomplishment (in fact i'm sure the gay community strives for a time where they don't have to come out, they can just be gay) it's just an act of bravery in a world where people can still be pricks.
Odds are one day you will get it. It'll take your son, daughter, grandchild, or someone else close being gay, but that seems to do the trick for a lot of people.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with you, but I can respect your opinion. There are plenty of things that I could really give a shit about, so I get that. As a minority myself I can relate with other minorities like Gays on how it feels to be always cast as the "other" and not fit in.
ReplyDeleteParades and Holidays have been around for hundreds of years and are celebrations of minority heritage and culture. They have been a part of EVERY ethnic group in the world (Irish, Italians, Germans, Greeks, Polish, etc) For some reason people only complain when it's an ethnic group they don't like or are indifferent to.
wait, they werent?
ReplyDeletego look up when it was just animal as the road warrior in georgia in the early 80s
Which I understand. I mean how often do we get annoyed when someone who doesn't understand wrestling makes fun of it? Pretty often. At least most of us if i had to venture a guess.
ReplyDeleteNow how many of us get mad when someone here makes fun of how stupid wrestling is? Not really a lot of us.
So I can understand.
Jabber2 has been awesome in this thread.
ReplyDelete'Who's been better in their (professional) sport?'
ReplyDeletebetta than kanyon?
nobody
(see, it works on multiple levels given the topic)
tgdgi
ReplyDeleteno really... look at his 1st sentence
Their genetics will probably catch up with them soon enough....
ReplyDeleteIn the interest of full disclosure, I'm also a HHH-apologist...
ReplyDelete...thinking...
who's one of the MOST homophobic wrestlers of the past 20 years!
I'm a complicated guy.
get up pack it in
ReplyDeletelet me begin
i came to win
battle me thats a sin
i came to get down
i came to get down
i came to get down
so jump around
jump around
jump around
jump around
jump up jump up and get down
*jumps up and gets down*
'My penis is so big that it hurts when I ride my bike!"'
ReplyDelete/big wiener problems
and putting the lotion on it
ReplyDeleteelse it gets the hose
I hate when you are in bed with 3 women at the same time and the ugliest one says "Save some for me" I mean GAWD!
ReplyDelete'who's one of the MOST homophobic wrestlers of the past 20 years!'
ReplyDeletebut aside from being bi-lingual, he's bi- a lot of things!
There is no appropriate response to how much of an uneducated peon you come across as. It's ridiculous how you feign ignorance and indifference to the rights of gays, because in your mind denying people the right to live their life in the way that they choose is unimportant because hey...what the hell it's not your problem right? Of course any way other than yours is now soft, appeasing and political correctness gone wrong.
ReplyDeleteOf course the real joke is your idea of heterosexuality being boiled down to it's most overworked stereotypes, that sort of black and white viewpoint on how straight men should act, how gay men should act and how the world should definitely be is exactly why blacks get to have a black history month, why women get to celebrate their heroes, why gays have parades and you don't get to, because first and foremost...you haven't earnt it, you haven't fought for it and more importantly you haven't suffered for it.
I ain't mad, bro. I respect the opinions of others. I didn't once tell anyone they were wrong. You find one person (or two, or thirteen) that disagree with your own opinion, it's best to just creep backwards out of the room. HOWEVER...it just confirms something I already knew. The popular stance is to be proactive when it comes to civil rights and liberties. It's the latest buzzword...proactive. Would it surprise anyone that I don't recycle? You wanna know why? I don't care. And not caring au-to-mat-ick-ly makes you a bad person.
ReplyDeleteYes. Congratulations on your apathy. You're a legend.
ReplyDeleteYou know what's worse than the people who do bad crap? The people who stand there and don't do anything.
ReplyDeletei know!
ReplyDeleteand i'm all like, 'no way, these are MY chili cheese fritos, get yer own bag!'
The only problem I have with this post is the phrase "we're not there yet" in terms of racism. We will never be there. We will always be a tiny bit more engaged by people who look similar to us. Birds of a feather, ya know? But we can squash overt racism to a miniscule percentage in time.
ReplyDeleteThere are places in Europe where racism is taken as a serious criminal offense. I'm not sure if we shouldn't do the same to hasten the process instead of debating it in various talking head shows on cable. Just F it, it's wrong, and it's now illegal.
The other 99.5% of your post: Awesome.
Complicated guy? So is HHH. He may be one of the most homophobic wrestlers but he also has some of the most homoerotic relationships with HBK and har har, Chyna, har har.
ReplyDeleteAll right, I give up....I wasn't breast fed as a child, OK?? Do you have any idea how horribly inadequate I felt in the boys locker room when changing for gym class?? Does anyone even realize that nobody celebrated my fucking birthday, but the DOG...the fucking DOG...got a whole box of Milk Bones just for taking a dump in the backyard? That has molded me into the horrible, horrible person I have become today. I guess I have to go out and kill some homeless people now, because of my sick and demented soul.
ReplyDeleteWow, privilege out the ass here.
ReplyDelete'WWE is looking
ReplyDeletefor non-union and athletic-looking males (age 18-25) for an angle that
will be filmed on the post-Summerslam edition of RAW this Monday. The
pay is $500, plus a 10% agent fee and paid-for parking. Talent will be
needed from noon to 8PM. (Credit: Wrestlezone)'
someone in the 411 comments wondered if this was going to be "the bachelor" for dyoung
I think we shoot for that world where we have true equality (instead of the "superficial equality" of today IMO), but I agree, we're never gonna get it. This stuff is hardwired into our brains. However, I don't think we're anywhere close yet, maybe we get there in 100 years. But again, I understand where you're coming from. I used to think the same way, and I had to do a lot of reading/research/arguing before I came around. A lot of the racism is "hidden" IMO, for lack of a better term.
ReplyDeleteThe homophobia-deniers I just don't understand. This shit is staring you RIGHT IN THE FACE.
For the record, "I'm all for gay people, BUT..." is turning into the "I'm not racist, but...."
ReplyDeleteScott shouldn't have even posted this trash.
I was surprised to hear Cena has a gay brother, considering all the homophobic shit he's said over the years.
ReplyDeleteThough it still takes courage to come out, gays have come such a long way in my lifetime.
ReplyDeleteListen to Eddie Murphy's comedy albums from the 80s. He talks about how fun it is to taunt them and yell, "Faggot-Ass Faggot!" and the crowd just eats it up. He also does a whole bit on how there could never be a black president.
This really should have gone in the "Things that did not age well" category.
I also imagine "Smear the Queer" has been banned from the playgrounds.
It's fascinating to listen to that Murphy stuff since now we know he likes transgendered hookers. His schtick was pretty virulently homophobic.
ReplyDeleteGood for Darren Young.
ReplyDelete*goes back to looking at boobs*
Sounds about right.
ReplyDeleteYou see? This guy I could invite over for dinner. I probably won't. More than likely won't.
ReplyDeleteobviously this is right
ReplyDeleteYou know what else sounds about right? Those that take up the cause du jour, and cast aspersions upon those who DO NOT take up the mantle. Seen it. And these are the same people who tell the crazy right wingers to shove their judgments up their collective asses. Face it...when you're right, you're wrong....when you're wrong, you're right...and when you're on the fence, they tell you to pick a fucking side.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe that shit was over a decade ago.
ReplyDeleteAll you got to do is look on Twitter to know we will never be at that utopian "there".
ReplyDeleteCena's quote about Young coming out was a little odd. I can't remember it off the top of my head but I remember thinking some people could be offended by it.
ReplyDeleteAdvanced stats CRUSHED Collins. PER is a dumb stat but he never ONCE was league average by PER and had a PER under 10 for the entire past decade. Win shares and wins produced favor big men HUGE (big men score high on WP by standing on the court, not shooting and occasionally rebounding) and he not only didn't score league average in either of those stats for over 10 years he actually pulled off NEGATIVE win shares a couple years.
ReplyDeleteIt's really hard to have less efficient advanced stats than Jason Collins. Darko and Kwame were not as bad as Collins and peaked higher. That's what we're talking about with that guy.
His +/- was OK but that's because he was playing too many minutes on teams that should have known better.
Or in 2006 after he turned heel.
ReplyDeleteHawk the alcoholic says they didn't need pink shoulderpadths and somerhyingndycjncmc m,,,,,,,,
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see a black wrestler have entrance music other than rap.
ReplyDeleteHe did? How?
ReplyDeleteDude, you essentially said gay men who dress in leather or wear women's clothing shouldn't have the same rights as straight people. YOU ARE NOT ON THE FENCE. THAT IS NOT WHAT 'BEING ON THE FENCE' LOOKS LIKE.
ReplyDeleteAre you the kind of guy who's gonna beat a man to death cause he winks at you on the street? Probably not. BUT YOU'RE NOT ON THE FENCE.
If the whole world was purple, there would be racism.
ReplyDeleteThe same way Martina Navratilova made an impact on him -- a source of inspiration, someone to identify with on a larger social platform. To discount this because of his stats is myopic at best.
ReplyDeleteSo we should... give up?
ReplyDeleteP.S. I don't understand that comment
I'm not; having a friend/relative of color, for example, doesn't always teach someone not to make racist remarks -- people will just say that person is "one of the good ones" and the others "make the stereotypes real."
ReplyDeleteYeah....I think everybody was afraid to bring that possibility up to their faces. Especially Hawk.
ReplyDeleteSo Cena has a brother with cancer and a brother who is gay?
ReplyDeletePER kills anyone who is a position defender. don't know enough about Win shares but on NBA 2k the bottom of the PER ratings is filled with guys like Battier, Ben Wallace (when he was active), and the like. PER doesn't account for screens, good box outs that help teammates, good switches on D, etc.
ReplyDeleteKind of late to the game here but I think Jabber said it all very well. Every day IS straight day. When I can so casually turn to a co-worker without thinking and say, "My wife and I did such and such this weekend." That is acceptance. I don't even have to contemplate a world where I have to think twice about referring to my significant other in any fashion. I don't have to worry about going out in public and holding hands or even kissing (although we both aren't much for PDAs). I can even make jokes in the locker room at the health club about banging her or not getting any because I'm married.
ReplyDeleteAll because I was born heterosexual. Until gays feel that same acceptance (beyond just being able to marry and serve in the armed forces and all the other stuff) then yes, we should be proud of each person with the courage to pave the way for total acceptance so that we all can be nonchalant about everyone's sexuality. But to say it's fine by me but I don't want to hear about it is hypocritical when we don't say the same thing when we hear people refer to their straight spouse or significant other hundreds of times a day. When we watch shows like Friends and Two and a Half Men which are nothing but heterosexual sex talk and jokes.
So yes I will celebrate the guy's courage
We're never going to beat racism because, aside from evil whitey, it's completely encouraged in each different racial community.
ReplyDeleteThe President himself routinely participates in it and it's completely accepted by everyone.
You ain't kidding. The Marc Anthony stuff is hilarious. And sad.
ReplyDelete"Good, that's just more ladies for the rest of us."
ReplyDeleteThat's basically all have to say on the subject.
First, PER isn't an advanced stat, it's a statistical aggregate- it's not providing new depth, it's just balancing a bunch of available factors.
ReplyDeleteHis +/- is way better than okay. the career defensive rating is a 6.8 point swing, which is really impressive.
But what I'm referring to is that all of the individual stats that are available absolutely crapped on the guy, but then he had a positive effect on teams ability to win games, which caused some fairly clever guys (I think Daryl Morey has specifically mentioned Collins in this sort of regard) to rethink the way they approached advanced stats, which has led to a lot of proprietary statistical approaches that value role players.
PER generally underrates defenders and rebounders because the rebound stat is underrated (when Hollinger created the stat he kept having David Robinson as the #1 player in the league and realized nobody would take him seriously if that was the case. So he tweaked the formula, lowered the scoring for rebounds and called it a day. 100% true story) and because counting/cumulative stats don't apply to defense.. WP generally overrates them. If you're going to use one stat, it's always a good idea to have the other in mind even if you plan to ignore it later (like most people do with PER).
ReplyDeleteThat's why Collins having a negative WP in some years is shockingly bad. By comparison Ben Wallace was rated as an MVP candidate by WP during the 2004 season (they had a point) and 2011-2012 Kevin Love scored higher in WP/48 than LeBron James did.
With advanced stats it's generally not a good idea to focus on any one in particular. But when all of them are saying that this player is not just below average but FAR below average it probably means something.
+/- and advanced +/- are noise stats. They don't mean anything in and of themselves, they only mean something in the context of other important statistical considerations. Wayne Winston (Cuban's guy at least for awhile) is a huge advanced +/- guy and his rantings are a solid mix of 25% insightful analysis and 75% pure lunacy, which is exactly what you're going to get when you rely on that stat.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that certain guys were underrepresented by counting stats led to economists tackling the basketball stat movement, most notably Berri with WP (wins produced). WP gives the Rodmans and Wallaces and Bowens their just due; since DRtg is a factor in the stat, players whose defense contributes significantly to team success get their credit and aren't significantly punished for not scoring.
Again though, this stat doesn't favor Collins, it actually humiliates him showing that he's generally inefficient as a scorer on the rare scoring attempts he makes (a cardinal sin for a big man), doesn't rebound well for a C at all and his DRTG has been over 100 EVERY YEAR OF HIS CAREER besidse 03,04 and 2013 where it was 99.
Advanced stats prove that even though the BSP wisdom of Collins is that he's a "tough defender" he actually isn't and he does literally nothing at a league average level. As I said before you can safely dismiss his +/- scoring as being played too many starters minutes by teams that really should have known better.
Kofi.
ReplyDeleteQUIT LOOKIN' AT MAH SIDE BOOBS
ReplyDeleteoooooooh what a lush?
ReplyDeleteNo, but we need to approach these things with more pragmatism and less idealism.
ReplyDeleteMartina is one of the best female tennis players of all time. You kind of proved my point. The bigger the star, the bigger the impact. He waited until he was practically out of the league...not the same.
ReplyDeleteYour point is hogwash. When one's population is under-represented, just having one person out there can make a difference. From GLAAD:
ReplyDeleteFrom our years of working with the NBA, including teaming with Athlete Ally to train two classes of rookies, we absolutely know that the league will proudly support him. We also know that countless young LGBT Athletes now have a new hero.
Those athletes weren't lacking for heroes, as women from Martina Navratilova in 1981 to Brittney Griner just days ago have come out while active - and men from Billy Bean to Wade Davis to John Amaechi have come out after retiring. But Collins, when he signs with his new team (he is currently a free agent) will become the first out gay pro athlete to face what many feel is as tough a gauntlet as any ... one's teammates, in a men's locker room.
For you to ignore the significance on this because he's not filling up your fantasy ball scoresheet is another bit of subtle prejudice. You can't just feel happy for him or DY without expecting him to do something for you?
Who said I wasn't happy for him? Why are you putting words in my mouth? All I said was that he was not a big enough star to make the kind of impact that if a Carmelo or Wade came out. You're arguing this somehow, why?
ReplyDeleteI'm fine with the LBGT community and I support their rights in every way. You need to relax dude.
Good point....however, that is no longer the case. As far as the abomination thing, that is basically true for those who believe in God, yes.
ReplyDeleteSo let me get this straight: (for all the thumbs downs).....announcing to the world that you are attracted to the same sex (which really isnt anyone's business anyway) is more courageous than sacrificing your life for your country? Lol okay....agree to disagree on that one.
ReplyDeleteTrue - we are far from ideal if a man in his 30s with a gun can chase down and shoot a teenage kid minding his own business.....and be the victim (and get off scott free).
ReplyDeleteGOD....how dumb was THAT idea????????
ReplyDeleteOK. I'll give you this. Since you're so passionate about this, you are either 1) Gay, or 2) near and dear to someone who is. I commend you and your compatriots for the steps you have taken over the decades to get where you are today. Now, just because one guy doesn't doesn't take a stand with you, don't let it ruin your day, all right? I've gone back, and nowhere did I say gays should not have rights. Most of my drivel clearly states that I'm indifferent whether they do or do not. The imaginary lines you attempted to read between, are just that..imaginary. Good night, Irene.
ReplyDeleteIts all good, bro. By the way, congratulations on having a wife! Lol (Hey - if they can do it.....)
ReplyDeleteYou know......Real talk, Smear the Queer went hard. That was an awesome football game....you had to be COURAGEOUS to play it!
ReplyDeleteTamina Snuka (the daughter of Jimmy Superfly Snuka)
ReplyDeleteROTFL....AWESOME (and highly underrated) angle!
ReplyDeleteAww man who cares. The guy is free to be himself. Good for him
ReplyDeleteVince will probably punish him for trying to get himself over outside of the WWE Universe, like Zack Ryder.
ReplyDeleteTribal music.
ReplyDelete*Zombie Jamal explodes in a pile of dust hitting a Samoan Drop.*
ReplyDeleteUh I'm black....hell yeah I care about equal rights
ReplyDeleteThere are straight people parades. However, they tend to hold up signs saying "God hates Fags."
ReplyDeleteI support gays because they help counteract the crippling overpopulation problem the world faces.
ReplyDeleteIf we can get 80% of the world to participate in monogamous homosexual relationships, we might be alright in 200 years.
What did Scott Keith have to do with the Florida case?
ReplyDeleteAnd 17 is not a "kid". I started college at that age, had a full time job and a car. Last I checked, being slightly removed from legal age is not the same as being in puberty. Plus, you're physically an adult.
You can think what you want about what happened and I won't look down at it in the least, because no one really knows what truly happened, but enough with this "kid" nonsense.
I'm just looking forward to the day when people's sexual orientation isn't news worthy. When being gay, bi, or transgender is just as common & boring as being heterosexual.
ReplyDeleteThe song "Secret Lovers" comes to mind. Very appropriate. I am comfortable with my latent homosexuality.
ReplyDeleteThere will come a day when we will all be wearing togas, with no underwear and sporting massive erections. Who can resist a massive erection?
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, the Roman empire died a long time ago...
ReplyDeleteA lot of elitism in this thread...
ReplyDeleteLot of e-bullying as well...
For shame BoD, for shame.
*looks around* What are you talking about?
ReplyDeleteThis one time while driving home from work, I saw a group of Christians on the side of the road with their lovely signs about "One Man One Woman" and "Gays Are Sin". While stopping at a red light, I noticed a kid who couldn't have been any older than 5 years old, screaming "FAGGOT!!" at the top of his lungs. To see that kind of hate pouring out of a child, to see that kind of corrupted innocence was indescribable and brought tears to my eyes. To be hated for something you can't control is human kind's greatest offense.
ReplyDeleteYou were given all the gifts people would kill for. You were lucky enough to be born white, straight, and healthy. So, to have power like that, to be given the gift of understanding other people's struggle to obtain the same rights, love, and appreciation that you were simply given, and not use it? To not want to help, even as little as supporting someone?
It doesn't make you a racist, or a homophobe.
It makes you a fucking coward.
Yup, League of Shadows burnt it
ReplyDeleteI find myself on the defensive here, duh. I could sit here and type up some long-winded diatribe about it being a free country, and cite the First Amendment, but frankly, that's something conservatives do, and contrary to what others might think, I certainly don't consider myself a conservative. People overreact, and I think that's what this is. On my part, and others. I'm not sensitive. My feelings are not hurt by being called a bigot or a coward. Frankly, that is your collective opinions. And you're free to air them. See what I did there?
ReplyDeleteI believe strongly in the 1st ammendment, so, even if I don't agree with you, I respect your right to express yourself and other to express themselves with their opinion. Although, I'm not a conservative either, to cite the First Ammendment, is something all Americans should do. FIFY.
ReplyDeleteI support Chris Jordan's brave decision to come out as a homophobe.
ReplyDeleteI dream of a day when all men are free to come out and hate anything they choose.
"If they do, good for them. If they don't, who cares. What I DO see is gays wanting equal rights and to be treated the same as everyone else, but they do things like have their gay pride parades, where they dress in leather, or women's clothing. What do straight people do to celebrate their heterosexuality? Watch football with their buddies, while BBQing, or going to strip clubs, or punch each other in the face."
ReplyDeleteIf you think this paragraph constitutes "being on the fence" of this issue, you're nuts. If you don't think the takeaway from this statement is that yes, gays can have rights, but *with conditions*, those conditions being that they act "normal", then you're nuts.
Dude, stop acting like you're just some guy who was minding his own business, sipping a beer in a lawn chair when the Angry Pro-Gay Mob came by and DEMANDED you stand with us. You wrote that comment unsolicited, and got called out cause it contained some bigoted thoughts (the stuff in quotes at the top of this comment). You asked a bunch of questions ("why are there no straight people parades?", "why is this shit the way it is") and people gave you answers, which you never directly responded to. And usually when someone claims to want "enlightenment" on a subject but then pretends no one is answering his questions, it means he didn't really want his questions answered in the first place. Seriously, I haven't seen one instance of you responding to the actual answers we gave you as to why "shit is the way it is".
And no, I'm not gay, and no one close to me has ever come out of the closet. I'm just a rational human being with a brain who cares about things like equality and fairness, cause I'm not an asshole.
What is the big difference?
ReplyDelete"Being gay can easily be turned into a positive in the media, but once you get the IC title, you might as well pack it in."
ReplyDeleteLOL, "pack it in". Scott's still got it!
I am genuinely curious as to what your pragmatic approach to fighting racism would be. Do you mind sharing it?
ReplyDelete