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10 Reasons Why The PG Era Isn't The Problem


The HHH piece is proving to be VERY popular, and hopefully this one will strike a chord as well.  

Comments

  1. Pat Patterson Prolapsed!December 17, 2013 at 6:16 AM

    Completely correct! All of it!

    ...Except for the Triple H thing.

    But seriously, it's almost as if they find a way to fuck up EVERYTHING. I cannot comprehend how people watch it, and it's obvious that our way of enjoying it is watching along with everyone else in live threads and ripping on it as if we're watching Roadhouse or Face/Off.

    Case in point: the two top guys of the company vying to unify the world championships are both intensely unlikable douchebags, one of which comes across as a date rapist and the other who acts half his age. WWE makes money not from the product itself, but sheer will; they haven't had their finger on the pulse of anyone or anything in at least a decade.

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  2. Scott, I don't want to be the first guy to tell you, but I think you confused Daniel Bryan with Harley Race throughout this whole piece.

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  3. what are you talking about? the movies you mentioned are both great.

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  4. Pat Patterson Prolapsed!December 17, 2013 at 6:53 AM

    You're right. What I meant to say was Sophie's Choice and Schindler's List.

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  5. Crash Holly was the one who thinks he's super heavyweight. Not Bob.

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  6. Fun little article Scott. You're getting good enough that we'll no doubt see Buzzfeed start plagiarizing your work any minute.

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  7. Not the part where he said AJ dumped Dolph...

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  8. Cosigned. I hate the "PG is the problem" argument...outside of like a 5 year stretch wrestling was always PG, and it worked. Wrestling at its core should be defined faces and heels fighting over who is the best.

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  9. Bob most definitely did.

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  10. I completely agree with everything Scott said and not because this is his blog or he wrote the article. That is pretty much basically why I have stopped watching WWE's current product and have mainly stuck with NJPW and reverted to old WCW shows and the WWF from the late 80's and early 90's. Even what we would consider to be inane crap like the Dungeon of Doom and Hogan going "darkside" to me is 1000 times more entertaining than the crap we get out of today's product. Also I am so sick of the company not pushing any new talent, their 50/50 booking and not helping guys get over by making titles mean something again to the fans.



    I thought Fandango was going to be this big midcard act, yet I can't remember the last time I saw him on TV.

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  11. They both did. It was their gimmick.

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  12. "Outside of like a 5 year stretch WWE was always PG..."
    FTFY
    Plenty of stuff from other feds/territories has not been PG. I'll agree that WWE, on the other hand, has been pretty much exclusively kid-friendly in its history.

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  13. The problem I have with the current WWE is that I can't just sit down and enjoy it because I know something bad will happen to royally screw it up. Case in point: I was at summerslam where Daniel Bryan won the title, everyone was cheering and within 5 minutes he was not champ again thanks to hhh. I have only watched 2 shows since (tlc and the raw before tlc). From nexus to the summer of punk to zack ryder to dolph ziggler winning the world title, every time I have actively cheered for something in the wwe, they have just screwed it up within a few months. I feel like a Red Sox fan (pre-2004) or cleveland browns fan or a chicago cubs fan because I just know that anything good will eventually be turned to shit.

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  14. That's fair. I've only ever been a wwe and 90s wcw guy. All pg stuff from what I remember, except the Attitude Era of cpurss

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  15. *checking Wikipedia*


    Oh yeah. The combined weight of both of them is over 400 lbs. My bad.

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  16. Also, I HATE when people say Austin was a heel who was over as a face. No he wasnt, he was edgy but giving middle fingers and stunning Santa doesn't make you a heel.

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  17. Great top 10 again, Scott. Really enjoyed the HHH and no development at the mid-card level bullet points. One thing I really wish would be discussed more are situations similar to Zack Ryder. People are starting to forget he was the first wrestler using Twitter (which the WWE can't stop shoving down our throats along with the WWE app) and he was able to develop an interesting character outside of the usual WWE practices. They guy was completely embarrassed and buried for showing a hing of development and originality (HHH helped bury him on TV too with a pedigree, although in HHH's eyes, he was giving Ryder the rub). I'm not saying Ryder should be main eventing now, but I can't remember someone getting the shaft as badly as Ryder over the last 10 to 15 years.

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  18. Just to chime in that while everyone correcting you is certainly right, you're partly right. I'd say Crash did more with the idea than Bob did. Crash was the one that carried the giant scale around.

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  19. This is one of Keith's better columns. The "PG" thing isn't the problem. In fact, while the prime of the attitude era (1998-2000) was awesome, everything afterward that was TV-14 sucked out loud; Katie Vick, HLA, Torrie Wilson's dad, etc. The problem, as Keith layed out, is that these writers have absolutely no idea how to create wrestling storylines. And I'll tell ya, the big winner of this era of WWE is Vince Russo. If nothing else, you have to appreciate how EVERYBODY had at least a minor feud going during his tenure. The "Gang Warz" of 1997, which might have seemed dumb at the time, at least had a storyline. Would wrestlers that far down the card have a storyline today? Apparently not.

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  20. Also, what is the mindset behind 50/50 booking? It so stupid, it makes everyone look average. Wouldn't you rather hhave all your roster look great and be over, and half of them look like jobbers as opposed to everyone looking average. The wrestling jobber is a fucking important role. It's like if every team in the nfl was 8-8, who'd really get into that?

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  21. Nice article. It further illustrates the problem with a lack of serious competition. There's no reason for them to change as long as they continue to make money and rule their niche of the world.


    Wait...I just noticed the ad at the top of the screen...sicentology.org/marriage.


    Goddammit.

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  22. That should be Scott's next Top 10: things that make us glad WWE is PG anymore. This would include Katie Vick, Torrie Wilson's dad, HLA, and other angles that were designed just to push the envelope and create controversy for the sake of controversy.

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  23. Technically, Dolph get revenge on AJ. Him and a Diva ( Harlena Race i believe) won a mixed tag match at Summerslam against Big E and AJ.
    Great article otherwise.

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  24. That's actually the goal of the NFL; parity. It was their stated desire for a loooong time. The idea was that if all the teams are relatively equal, all the fans stay into the product longer because their team is still in it.

    My guess with with the WWE is that they don't want anyone to be a flat-out jobber, but not everyone can win all the time. So, 50/50 booking is a solution. Sadly, it's not a particularly good one.

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  25. DID YOU KNOW? This Top 10 list was inspired by an e-mail I sent Scott a few weeks ago.


    Of course, he writes about wrestling much better than I ever could, so it turned out much better and much more succinct than I could ever hope.


    I'd say another big issues these days is Vince's ADHD decisions. One day, he'll be hot on an idea and then want the whole angle or push of someone nixed because he changed his mind.

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  26. Random theory about the Bray Wyatt thing (since Scott mentioned in the article that he doesn't get it):



    Bray Wyatt and his collection of freaks were brought in by HHH to get a semblance of control over certain people. The Wyatts take out Kane, Kane comes back and proclaims fealty to Stephanie and becomes the Authority's HR guy. Now, they're trying to keep Daniel Bryan under control to keep him away from the main event.


    Clearly, the Bryan-Wyatt angle isn't done, based on last night (unless I just imagined the promo, I admit I was paying more attention to the open thread). Wyatt tried to recruit Bryan (for the Authority), but since that doesn't seem like it's going to happen, now he's going to destroy him (for the Authority).



    There's subtlety there (and possible that I completely made all of that up), but they're leaving it open enough that nothing contradicts it, so I can enjoy my theory.

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  27. I know the nfl wants parody but what draws in outside fans are super teams...07 patriots, Miami heat, etc. I don't think people really get excited about watching 8-8 teams, unless you are a Cowboys fan.

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  28. Did you know that Scott's entire article are things that have been said on this blog and other good wrestling blogs for years? Its true, its true. Scott's next article? Top 10 Wrestling Events that get Re-Booked to Death

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  29. Oh, I know. But he said in the e-mail reply he was going to use that very list for this article. And when he linked to a new blog post a few posts down from this, he he said something to the same effect.


    It's preaching to the choir around here, but most other wrestling sites? Hoo boy, it's a mess.

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  30. I honestly do feel HHH taking over will lead to some better writing, more actual wrestling, better gimmicks, etc., etc...basically lots of little improvements. However, that feeling is overshadowed by the impending doom of knowing that like Scott said here, he will never, ever "show ass" and provide any closure for the stories he interjects himself into, and will basically ALWAYS be on EVERY show and in EVERY major angle all the time as he and his tiny little dick try desperately to convince us all that he was ever on par with legit industry-changing demigods like Hogan, Flair, Austin, & Rock. Which of course he's not, and never will be.

    Dear god, think of the HOF induction speech...20 minutes of self-fellating false humility...I SAID THINK ABOUT IT!

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  31. I like it and it would make a lot of sense...so it'll never happen. They're "weird, creepy hillbilly-culties" and that' all the thought that's ever going to be put into them.

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  32. That's not a bad idea, come to think of it. If they went that direction, I could buy into it. Plus, there's a good set up for turning The Shield face and have both groups meet at WrestleMania where Triple H suddenly fires them or something.

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  33. I can relate. I honestly thought the outcome of DBry/Orton would be Bryan with at least a short reign as champ. What we got instead has made it very difficult for me to enjoy watching. I probably would have stopped if it wasn't for this blog. Last night I almost turned off the show in favor of NCAA13, but there was some quality wrestling after the shitty opening promo.

    Maybe last night's main event is a good way to sum it up. I didn't care for the idea of Bryan Vs Orton again, aside from being able to watch DBry work. But, I really got into the match. Bryan is apparently no longer having to work as "the little guy who can hang," because he dominated the early part of the match. Then Orton turned the tide, but managed to be compelling. The two built a match that was MUCH better than anything they had on PPV, and then it ends with...


    ...a nutshot DQ.


    Ok, fine. They can't really have a legit ending because they want to keep Orton as champ and apparently want to keep DBry looking strong (I approve of this), but there had to be a better way....maybe. We're tired of run ins, screw jobs, even if we've become conditioned to expect them, so at least it was different. At the time, my comment here was something of along the lines of "at least it was a good match."


    Then Cena runs it. WTF? Why? It's not like there was a beatdown in progress. Oh, so Orton can RKO him and stand tall over both.


    So, even when we do get something worth our excitement and investment of our time, they fuck it up on some level. Unless you're a fan of THE AUTHORITY and heel semi-chickenshit Orton. Then I expect you're orgasmic.

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  34. Now that you mention it, i'm surprised HHH isn't in the HOF yet. I bet his HOF speech is a lot like Jordan's, just ripping everyone who he thinks is below him.

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  35. No one else will be inducted that year because he needs the whole evening for his speech.

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  36. So everyone then?

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  37. In the few minutes since I posted this, I've gone off the rails with a comparison, and I'm just gonna throw it out there:

    With this scenario, the Authority is Cobra, HHH and Stephanie are Destro and the Baroness (Vince is clearly Cobra Commander); the Wyatts are the Dreadnoks, the Shield are the Crimson Guard and Randy Orton is a random Viper (see! It works!) brought in to lead the troops. I think this might make Kane the bird-themed accountant guy, either that or a Battle Android Trooper.

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  38. Porn-Peddling Jef VinsonDecember 17, 2013 at 8:07 AM

    Hey, that Torrie Wilson's dad angle got us that cool implied HLA stuff with Dawn Marie.

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  39. I believe the blog posted a story about Vince being outraged at fans cheering for Bryan and crapping all over last weeks segment. 10 years ago he listened to fans and gave them what they wanted. Austin turned face, eventually Rock did, and he gave us ***** matches with the technical wrestlers. Listen to your audience Vince. It's sports entertainment 101.

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  40. Well, they need to build Orton up if he is going into Wrestlemania as Champ.

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  41. Last night vs Dolp?:-)

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  42. I wasn't surprised by Jordan's HOF speech. Its not like it was a secret he was a giant douche bag.

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  43. The NFL is a bad comparison because, well, it's a real sport. People will watch a game with a 7-10 win team as soon as a 12-14 win team provided that the game means something and the level of competition is good. Not so much in wrestling.

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  44. Wrestling is still real to me god damn it!

    No, its not a perfect comparison. I guess my point was that on the whole its better to have half your roster look great and be over as opposed to your entire roster looking average

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  45. Yea. Like seriously, you cant fake humility for one 20 minute speech? The whole thing kinda just fascinates me.

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  46. Oh, I totally agree. I'd equate it more to writing a good script than a legit sporting competition, though: You need main characters with motivations and storylines that matter and get people invested...and you need supporting characters whose role is to act as a plot device to further those characters and stories.

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  47. Scott mentioned the long term booking but also the short attention spans are a huge problem. Just this year ryback went from face world title contender to heel world title contender to a paul heyman guy to a mid card tag team guy. Big show has turned heel to face and back at least 2x this year.
    It is one thing to have no plans for a guy after a feud as Scott said; it's another to be so confused about a guy's motivation that if you don't like it, wait a few weeks.

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  48. He'd make a good Nemesis Enforcer, if he'd actually DO anything.

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  49. I wouldn't really expect him to fake humility. What was strangest was the fact that he used it to settle old scores, including inviting ex-high school coaches and teammates just so he could humiliate and mock them for daring to bench him when he was 14 years old or whatever it was.

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  50. How dare you rip Roadhouse!!

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  51. I think that's misrepresenting what the NFL is looking for. What they don't want are dynasties like the Jordan's Bulls in basketball or Jeter's Yankee teams. They also don't want teams that are horrible decades at a time like the KC Royals. They want a system where a bad team has a realistic chance of improving over a period of couple of years. That's not the same as they want every team to be 8-8 every year.

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  52. Ratings consistently show that people will watch two 8-8 NFL teams play each other, even if it's up against playoff baseball. The NBA would have an orgasm if the NBA finals, even with LeBron, got the same ratings as a crappy Monday night football game between two teams going nowhere.

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  53. What is PG? If PG is that John Cena and Brock Lesnar beat each other bloody as hell, then PG is OK. If PG means, that you even can't say words like Ass, Hell and Damn, or you can't use a ladder as a weapon in a f'n ladder match or so then something is wrong.

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  54. Yes. I wasnt making cross sports comparisons because the nfl is such a juggernaut. Relative to their own sports, dynasties draw ratings. Id bet tnat 07 pats team and those 90s cowboy teams drove huge ratings relative to other nfl teams

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  55. Dynasties are entertaining when there are a number of people who still hang with them. They're boring if they're just beating everyone senseless all the time and no one has a real shot at beating them.


    The 2007 Patriots season ended up playing out like a wrestling story line, when you think about it.

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  56. I could imagine Lebron James would be pretty similar, if not worse.

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  57. Naw, lbj seems pretty normal to me. He at least cares what people would think enough to fake it

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  58. Nah, Lebron seems to be much more easy going, self assured, and less bitter than Jordan.

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  59. Eh, I'd say in the first few months after the double turn he towed the line between heel and face, but once the angle with Vince starts he's clearly a face.

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  60. I think part of the problem as well is that the WWE does not give us a reason to buy their PPVs. Usually the matches end up on RAW weeks later anyways. There's no sense of a card building up in order for me to get excited about watching. During the Attitude Era, an 8 match card would be set up within the first 2 weeks of their cycle. Now usually the case, there's only 4 matches set up with a lot of unnecessary filler. They're treating their PPVs like RAW specials and then claim that PPV is a dying business.

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  61. He was still kind of a tweener until Canadian Stampede/Summerslam IMO....but that's just where things were at that point in time, and what the crowds (particularly the WWF ones) wanted to see.

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  62. So WWF pre-Hogan/Rock'n'Wrestling was PG?

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  63. Hey, you can rip good movies too.

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  64. Everything but the blood, yeah - and blood alone isn't enough to edge something over PG (or, at least, PG-13... you can rip a motherfucker's heart out on-screen and still get a PG-13 as long as Indy doesn't fuck Willie on screen)

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  65. Wrestling is for kids

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  66. The NBA has been historically most popular with super teams, though. In the 80s they had the Lakers making the finals eight out of ten times while ratings were though the roof, and that extended into the 90s with Jordan's Bulls.



    Interest in the NBA went to shit after the Bulls disbanded but rekindled when the Celtics big 3 formed and the Lakers became a powerhouse again. Then it surged when the Heatles formed. Casuals love super teams.

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  67. PG-13 I can buy for Pre-Hogan WWF.

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  68. The second Bret recruited four other guys and they starting gang-beating him on a regular basis I think it's safe to say he fit 99% of the characteristics of a traditional face.


    Then Vince turned heel and he became something else altogether.

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  69. There's a reason the term "bandwagon" exists.

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  70. I don't think so. LBJ doesn't have that psychotic edge Jordan did. You could argue that may be why he's not as good a player as Jordan, but I think it also means that James is not going to be interested in getting revenge over pretty grudges from decades before.

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  71. That actually made sense - Cena said that Bryan deserved first crack at Orton, but once Orton scrubbed the match all bets were off. He wasn't going to jump him earlier because it would have gotten Bryan DQ'd.


    They should have had Orton setting up for the punt before Cena's run-in, though. But their timing was off all night on that stuff (cutting off Punk before his line... that he then still went to in rather amateurish fashion).

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  72. http://gawker.com/teacher-in-trouble-after-telling-black-student-he-cant-1484184252?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=tuesdayAM



    Calling Mark Henry... Mr. Henry, please report to this school for a wig splitting.

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  73. That's definitely true for the NBA. That doesn't really seem to be the case with the NFL, but then it's been a long time since we've had anything resembling a dynasty (the Patriots being the closest).

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  74. Putting to one side that America has a real weird relationship with sex and violence that governs things like TV ratings (The Walking Dead can show people getting dismembered all they want at TV-14, but show a bare titty in the process and it's TV-MA for you!), yes, wrestling is predominantly aimed at kids. Not exclusively, mind you, but predominantly.

    If it wasn't, 90% of their merchandising wouldn't be toys and t-shirts no grown-ass man or woman would ever consider wearing and no fucks would be given about TV ratings or content.

    And 9-11 means nothing. When I was. 13 or so, I remember being up until 11 all the time. That's common.

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  75. Great article Scott, the Miz's mini me and the cancer joke made me laugh.
    Just one little correction, Ziggler did defend his title, once, on the following episode of Smackdown against Jericho after he won it on Raw. He didn't, however, have any defenses on PPV.

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  76. It doesn't play out that way in practice: the biggest year-over-year gain recently was the Colts / Saints Super Bowl, which drew about 10% more viewers than the prior year. That had a better human-interest angle with the post-Katrina Saints going against Manning.

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  77. Rozelle, in particular, wanted the teams to be as equal as possible. He believed that would attract the most fans. Notice that I used past tense; I don't know if that is still part of their plan. Yes, they want teams to be able to turn it around, and prefer to avoid dynasties like the Steelers in the 70s; the way the draft is set up to help make that happen.


    As for what brings in outside fans, I'd say fantasy leagues have done more for that than any dynasty ever has...and I have no interest in that type of thing.

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  78. http://www.wrestlecrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/232.jpg

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  79. Yea, you can poke holes in all ratings. That was manning/brees/katrina so it was gonna draw. Mlb and nba has shown us that dynasties bring in the casual fans

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  80. Nah, LeBron's a good guy, it's just that everybody still can't get over the admittedly stupid Decision. Nobody who's played with LeBron has ever had a bad thing to say about him and he's never been involved in any controversy away from the court.

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  81. I did acknowledge that they want to keep Orton as champ.

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  82. "Interest in the NBA went to shit after the Bulls disbanded but rekindled
    when the Celtics big 3 formed and the Lakers became a powerhouse again."


    That's... an interesting interpretation, especially considering you skipped over the Shaq / Kobe-era Lakers in that particular narrative.


    I do agree that the NBA does seem to be better served as having a handful of super-teams and 16-20 jobbers, but it's the only league that seems to thrive on that.

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  83. The run in didn't make sense to me; it felt more like Cena sticking his nose where it didn't belong. Bryan can handle himself. If the point was for Cena just to jump on Orton, then he should have paid more attention to him instead of tending to Bryan.


    If it worked for you, that's fine. I didn't like it.

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  84. The NBA wasn't as popular in the Shaq/Kobe era, though, though it was pretty close again by 2002. I guess it'd make more sense to point to the Spurs era of 2003-2007 when everything really plummeted.

    To make a wrestling parallel, the Bulls dynasty would be like the Attitude era, while the Lakers three-peat was 2001-mid 2002, where it was still popular but clearly in decline, while the Spurs era was Brand extension-onward.

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  85. Not just the draft, but the fact that the average NFL career is 4.2 years or whatever. It's like college football: the same depth players simply aren't on teams for long enough to maintain a dynasty.


    That's the real reason that it's so important to find a top-line QB: because when everything's said and done, they're going to have a greater chance of playing out two five-year contracts.

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  86. I wish fantasy sports would go away just so I dont have to ever hear "I need 21 points out of player X to win my fantasy week" again

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  87. I'd agree with that, but it wasn't the lack of dynasties then: it was the lack of scoring. That's why they loosened up the defensive rules in the middle of the 00s.

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  88. True, but I think it was also because the best teams lacked star power. That was the era where all of the marketable stars sans Shaq/Wade were stuck on shitty teams and the most prominent squads were led by white and foreign players, and the blackhole of charisma that is Tim Duncan.

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  89. Bryan can handle himself normally - but he'd just taken an uppercut to the nads (which I'm actually glad to see that they're seemingly getting over as something seriously damaging again, after it turned into a transition spot during the early 00s).

    Cena thought he'd dealt with Orton, but he got RKO'd for his hubris. Nothing wrong with that.

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  90. It really does come down to the blood; the in-ring violence was all punch / kick / bearhug. It's not as though they were running that many heavy backstage angles as the NWA was doing. Shit, did Backlund EVER take a beating so significant that they had to write him out of action for more than a month?

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  91. Yeah, I don't get it. As a kid, I always had players that were my faves, and sometimes they weren't on my favorite teams. Earl Campbell is my all-time fave, and whenever the Oilers played the Rams (fave team then; don't have one now), I was always torn. If he got at least 100 yards and the Rams still won, I was ok.


    But the idea of having a fantasy team of guys who actually play on different teams, and getting points, etc...I just don't see the appeal. Of course, I also don't gamble, and don't care for online gaming.

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  92. LBJ seems like Magic to me. Fairly good-natured overall.



    The only person whose ever come close to MJ's level of insane, paranoid competitiveness is Kobe (as I don't think that even MJ would have been crazy enough to ship Shaq out of town before draining him completely of his potential usefulness to the Lakers). But even then... NO ONE was as competitive as MJ. Read The Jordan Rules sometime.

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  93. No problem with the RKO, no real problem with the nutshot -aside from it feeling like a non-ending to a great match. I get why when it comes to the bigger picture.


    I still feel like Cena had no need to come out.

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  94. Our Fantasy League's subtitle is actually "Pokemon with Beefy Men." And that sums up the appeal in a nutshell.

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  95. That's the top face's job - they save the other face from the (potential) beatdown.

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  96. I see the appeal and have played in my fair share of leagues. Just hate the guys who always talk about it

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  97. I find that the "pg" thing is used as a straw man by the wwe in defending the quality of the product. They can say hey we are trying to put out a product that reached more people/we want kids to watch/you're stuck in the 90's etc. Meanwhile they ignore any point in Scotts article.

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  98. We don't really see that anymore...and I don't think the save from a potential beatdown was ever a thing. If he had waited until Orton started going to town, it would have made more sense to me.

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  99. Jerry Buss didn't want to give shaq a contract extension so they traded him. And shaq only ended up having two good seasons left and if he hasn't been traded who knows if he even motivates himself enough to have any more good years .

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  100. The closest hes come was that stupid hummer story from high school and the delonte west/celtic meltdown intertwined rumor. Shocked at actually how well hes handled himself

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  101. Right. They just want quick turn over at the top so every fan base thinks they have a chance. I like it for football but I don't know if I'd want it in every sport. Also it makes the patriots that much more amazing

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  102. Beautifully written piece. #'s 7, 6, and 3 sent chills. I really enjoyed it.

    But Scott, #4... "Which is nothing against Sheamus, who is a solid worker in the bland WWE style they love so much..." Solid, not good or very good, in the context of bland work. That's a pretty backhanded compliment--it sounds like there IS something against Sheamus.



    I'm sorry. I'm pretty much a Jon Gruden (uber positive football announcer) type who says, "You know, I really like this guy," about 90% of the roster. But I think I really like this guy. Sure, his matches as a face in Fall of last year got a bit repetitive, but he's a good asskicker and a good heel. And to his credit, the dude's a cool guy with a wicked sense of humor. I was watching this Comic Con panel of sorts with Sheamus and AJ. AJ acted like a shy 7th grader with Parkinson's while Sheamus pretty much owned the room, made kids feel good about the questions they asked, and made everyone feel welcomed.


    And as much as I despised Randy Orton from 2003 to 2009, he has been massively over for a reason the last four years. Folks can hate on him all you want, but people gravitate to him. His matches over the last couple of years with Henry, Christian, and Bryan have all been either very good or simply great. The force fed argument worked years ago, not now. I'm not saying it justifies six years of blandness, but I am saying that he really shouldn't be in the argument anymore.

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  103. The shaqobe teams were definitely a draw. The Lakers probably have more fans than every other NBA team combined so when they are on top ratings are big.

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  104. The hla thing was so stupid. Made me embarrassed to have the show on.

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  105. No controversy away from the court... rumors of collusion stemming from 2008 Olympics with Bosh/Wade, the ESPN expose article on him that disappeared (because the idiot writer never identified himself while documenting things), Delonte West, the Decision... I've heard plenty of "Lebron's an ass" stories to not just make a blanket statement "he's a good guy." And he acts/flops--my number one pet peeve in the entire game of basketball.

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  106. this. the WWE only kept the "shades of grey" booking (haha, after the success of the book this sounds kind of weird now) for very few months.


    then it was most heel vs. face again - just that they didn't act like did in the eighties.

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  107. I dont know about his off screen stuff, but I despise sheamus. Hes servicable enough in the ring, but he hasnt been in any memorable angles/feuds and his character just bores me

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  108. Winning his title after being on TV for 6 months?

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  109. Personally I loved his feud with Goldust in WWECW in 2009, his early destruction of everyone when he came to Raw, how he survived that stupid losing streak angle after being named King of the Ring (and they had no plans after that), and I can probably name about 20 or so 3 star matches he's had along with the absolute classic he had with Bryan at Extreme Rules last year.


    I think his personality is best suited for the heel role, but they scripted him as John Cena Jr. instead.

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  110. Tout is still a thing?

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  111. I enjoyed how he had feuds with Goldust and "The Gold Standard" Shelton Benjamin. It was almost like a foreshadowing about he was going to win gold real soon.

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  112. Those aren't anything that you'd use to characterize him as a bad person. Shit, if the Delonte West story actually had a semblance of truth to it that would actually put sympathy on him.

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  113. Not sure, but since WWE doesn't promote it anymore, the chances are pretty slim.

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  114. I play fantasy football and agree with this completely. Having someone explain to me that they need Adrian Peterson to get 21 points for them to win, and then explain that 21 points is a lot for their league b/c it's not PPR and there isn't a 100 yard bonus and TDs only count for 4 points, blah blah blah. Nobody cares except the people in your league.

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  115. You got that right, if he just went on to a different team it would have been the end of it, but he goes and makes it a media circus. Outside of that, and the fact that the NBA is constantly making the Heat the star team, he's a good guy.

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  116. The delonte thing made me actually feel bad for him a little. The collusion thing I dont have an issue with, guys probably do that all the time. Some nba guys are real tight and I dont have an issue with them wanting to play with their friends. I still dont know if I even buy it...ive heard stephan A and Broussard claim he would have stayed in cleveland if he could have recruited another top level guy.

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  117. i posted something in the pg review questioning whether this is the very reason vince chose mark to be the good santa

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  118. oh, you only think it's a great article b/c you think it's attainable!

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  119. The difference between Orton and Cena is that, while Orton gives his all against good - great workers, he very obviously doesn't give a shit when he's in there who he deems to be beneath him (see: Big Show).


    It's not even a Bret-esque "I don't feel like working tonight, so I'm going to hold an armbar and win with a rollup" type of laziness. Its a contempt for everyone around him that they'd dare to even put him in that type of match.


    I always kinda wanted them to stick him in a feud with Khali, just to see how much it would drive him insane. He certainly wouldn't be able to produce watchable results like Cena and Batista did.

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  120. I'm with you about the sex and violence thing; I don't get it. There have been times when I've been watching Walking Dead and literally thought, "Christ! Enough! Get we get back to the story now?" I was drawn into the show because I enjoyed the story; not because of excessive blood and zombies. I saw the...well, the walking dead...as a plot device.


    Maybe it goes back to our founding by Puritans, but I don't get the hangup with sex and nudity. If I had kids, I wouldn't want them watching porn, but seeing a naked body? Who fucking cares? Most of us have the same damn parts. As for when sex becomes appropriate to see or discuss, I've always thought it depends on the kid.

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  121. The difference is that at one point - further back than 10 years ago, actually - he fucking *had* to listen and adapt in order to survive. Now? Not so much.

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  122. So they're like the Bobs in "Office Space"? I can get into that.

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  123. I can agree with most of that and find the potential Orton-Khali feud amusing. I think his legit anger management issues affect his work in the ring as well. I think he'd be fascinating to psychoanalyze because off WWE tv, he's a very self-aware individual.



    Still, I think the notion remains clear and true--Orton is a captivating worker for the majority of fans. He also seems to be a wrestler's wrestler, as people like Dibiase, Arn Anderson, Flair, and Bret Hart have given him the occasional verbal blowjob about how good he is and how big he could be.

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  124. Sheamus quietly put on some really good matches with Big Show, of all people. But that whole deal with Bryan at Wrestlemania killed any good will he was going to have with anyone for the rest of the year.

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  125. The only good thing about that terrible storyline was those segments were the only time that Michael Cole and Taz were ever good on commentary.

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  126. Nice to see I'm not the only one that's noticed that John Cena is the Adam Sandler of pro wrestling (has Adam even had a good movie since Bulletproof?).

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  127. My problem with WWE is how small the main event & upper midcard divisions are.


    Main Event: Orton, Cena, Punk, Bryan.......
    Upper Midcard: Big Show, Rey Mysterio, The Shield, Mar Henry, Big E. Langston, Alberto Del Rio, Sheamus


    ...then there's EVERYONE else. WWE had their chance to elevate and KEEP Ziggler, Miz, Kofi, Swagger, etc. all in the Upper Midcard or even Main Event picture, but they bailed on them.


    WWE needs to establish another 4-5 guys in the main event scene. It's been the same four guys, give or take Big Show, Henry, Del Rio, in the main event picture.

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  128. "For the past two years, they’ve had one match set in stone for Wrestlemania and booked around it even though it was blatantly obvious that no one cared about it, and that match was of course Rock v. Cena."


    People cared about Rock v. Cena the first time, when it was actually "once in a lifetime" and meant something as far as being a clash of old guard vs. new guard. If the E had actually treated it that way instead of treating it as a setup for a second cash grab the next year, it wouldn't be up there with the likes of the Invasion as failed experiments go. (Properly booking Cena to go over the first time might have helped the rematch since there'd have been some actual intrigue for Round 2, but IMO likely would have not have done much.)

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  129. Scott Keith spitting FIRE!

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  130. Only in the WWE. And they had the best ratings, the best shows and the biggest buyrates when it wasn't.


    They had 50:50 booking and no jobber matches, but they created stars like Austin, Mankind, Rock and HHH. Could that happen today where nobody will be thrown from the Hell in a Cell cage? When we never get a Street Fight like Triple H vs Cactus Jack? When we will never get a new Austin or Rock, because they can't be themselves on the mic?


    WWE is for kids, but should it be? NWA in the 80s, WCW before Hogan and the nWo time, ECW, WWF Attitude... the best of wrestling was never aimed at kids. Only the worst like Gobleddy Gooker, Gimmicks like Smoking Gunns, The Godwinns, garbage mans, Mantaur monsters, Great Khalis, Hornswoggles, the Dungeon of Doom and everything you can see at wrestlecrap.

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  131. Sheamus is ok. My guess is he's gonna be one of the "surprises" at the Rumble and will get a massive push thereafter.

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  132. Nobody should be thrown from a Hell in a Cell cage.

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  133. Bob carried the scale before Crash came on board. I still remember him carrying the scale out because he wouldn't wrestle either of the Hardys because they weren't "super-heavyweights," and he called out Gangrel with, "How about you Dracula, you fat bastard?"

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  134. I think Orton wouldn't have gotten over without all the protection, but I'm with you in that it is moot at this point. He's over with the fans, the end!



    I started getting into Orton when he started showing a personality. I just can't get with the cold-blooded viper stuff. There is something to the "anger problem" Orton that should be explored.

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  135. And that story isn't even true. He was never actually benched, he just let himself believe that. Also, the stuff he did to break Kwame Brown puts him in his own stratosphere. HHH wish he knew how to bury people like MJ.

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  136. Gary The Rock Star's #1 FanDecember 17, 2013 at 1:35 PM

    This WWE Style bullshit they are teaching at the Performance Center is shit.

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  137. Punch Drunk Love and Funny People were both excellent, though neither were really comedies. And I have a soft spot for the Waterboy. Was Wedding Singer after Bulletproof? That one was good too.

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  138. Victims of start-stop pushes:


    -Fandango
    -Brodus Clay
    -Damian Sandow
    -Cody Rhodes (multiple times)
    -Ryback
    -R-Truth
    -Antonio Cesaro
    -Jack Swagger
    -Sin Cara
    -Hunico
    -Christian (multiple times)
    -Dolph Ziggler
    -Alex Riley
    -The Miz (multiple times)
    -Wade Barrett (multiple times)
    -Curtis Axel


    And the list goes on and on and on. So why are people suddenly expecting that this is going to change for Roman Reigns and Big E Langston again?

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  139. Can you even call those guys upper midcarders right now? They haven't done anything of consequence in months.

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  140. "he very obviously doesn't give a shit when he's in there who he deems to be beneath him"


    See also: Kingston, Kofi


    Stupid, stupid, STUPID!

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  141. Dolph dumped AJ, so he has no need to get revenge on her.

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  142. I always assumed it was the opposite. Everyone's booked 50/50 so no one gets "too" over, becomes bigger than the company and leaves. It's like they're still butthurt over Lesnar in '04.

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  143. This is also part of the logic. No real jobbers, and only a few get really big.

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  144. So true. It's a shame they don't have competition now.

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  145. I call bullshit on the "no one cared about" Rock vs. Cena line. It did pretty outstanding business, as I recall. I didn't personally have much interest in it a second time around, but it's a real stretch to say "no one cared about" it. I do certainly agree with the general premise though: they need to do more long-term booking than just a Rock-Cena type arc. In reality, that feud wasn't even a "year-long angle" it was basically put on hold after Mania 28 and the company said "Well, let's burn 10 months or so til we reconvene".

    Obviously #3 has become a bigger issue after the summers of Punk and Bryan, respectively. I think HHH would work much better as the defiant, DX-type progressive COO who is trying to take WWE into the future and prying the "business" he loves from his dad-in-law's hands. HHH as the rebellious executive who is actually endorsing the Punks and Bryans of the world over the homogenized "Vince McMahon guy" makes way more sense to me. I think it all works better in 2011 with the Summer of Punk and it surely would work better this year, with HHH backing Bryan against McMahon's "he's too small" policy.

    #1 has always been the most perplexing one. I totally get that WWE isn't going to market toward the internet fanboy (nor should they). If guys like CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and Dolph Ziggler were ONLY "internet indy darlings" then I could see them not getting the full endorsement of the very corporate WWE. The problem is that Bryan and Punk have been the most popular guys with the whole fanbase for a while now and the company basically ignores that in favor of more Cena, Orton, HHH, Big Show, etc. I don't think even the biggest workrate fanatic actually thought 2000 Chris Benoit should have become the face of WWE over guys like Rock, Austin, Angle, etc. However, Benoit was a totally different animal than what Bryan and Punk have been in recent years. Nowadays the organic support for those guys has been impossible to ignore, but they stick to the same half-way push and 50/50 booking before calling the experiements "failures".

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  146. I would argue that plenty of people cared the second time around too. It may not have been *us*, but plenty of people bought that PPV. It's a bit excessive to say "no one cared", even if the re-match was pretty bland and unimaginative to a lot of us.

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  147. He needs to be an ass-kicking heel in the worst way. I think he should come back as a HHH-endorsed guy. He would make a good "bully" type opponent for Daniel Bryan. Bring up the history of him beating Bryan at WM a couple times, drive home the 18-second thing. Then when Bryan overcomes and beats Sheamus, it's more of a david vs. goliath thing. If Sheamus was not going to be a main eventer, I would be great with a Sheamus/Wade Barrett tag team, where they get over just by beating ass.

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  148. "So, Daniel Bryan...what exactly would you say...ya DO here exactly?"

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  149. Especially in a monopoly, like we've now had for 13 years. There are more potential jobbers and indy geeks out there to be squashed than WWE has programming time

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  150. That's a really bizarre mentality for them to have too. I get that they put EVERYthing into Brock and Batista and they felt burned over it when those guys left...but it's not like Lesnar was setting box-office records on top or starting a new wrestling boom. He was awesome in his own way, but wasn't setting business on fire or anything. It's not as if they lost piles of money on Brock leaving. Yet they do take that exact approach with everyone not named "Cena"

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  151. Which is understandable. The Colts went from laughing stock to contender in a one-year turn-around, just from a great draft.

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  152. I was all ready to accept having to click through a bunch of pages to read one article, then that Kick-Ass 2 ad popped up.

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  153. Wwe is for kids. Specifically marketed wrestling promotuons are aimed at kids. Wrestling as a whole is for anybody who enjoys it.

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  154. It absolutely is based in Puritan history. That we haven't got past that shit is embarassing.

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  155. Nakedness leads to arousal,
    arousal leads to sex,
    SEX...leads to porn.

    I sense much nakedness in you.

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  156. There's also hygenic concerns. I'd damned sure want you to cover up your dick and asshole before sitting on a chair that I might need to use.

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  157. The problem is that they still go too far. They need a product that they can show on Noggin.

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  158. Great article. Every point is valid.

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  159. Also he got a debilitating concussion not long after winning it, which kind of put a dampener on him defending it at all.

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  160. Except that it doesn't prove that the PG era isn't a problem. It just lists ten other things that are also problems.

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  161. I think it was implied that the majority of the smarky-smarky-smark crowd didn't care, which was true for me, at least. Rock's in-ring work and promos seemed very uninspired this past time around, you knew they wouldn't put Cena over in Miami and you knew they wouldn't put Rock over him twice. No real intrigue either time.

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  162. I prefer the Attitude Era over the family friendly crap.


    But the point of Scott's article is that there are so many other things about the product that is inferior that simply allowing Curtis Axel to say 'ass', and Ryback to make dick jokes isn't going to fix everything.

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  163. But Orton's character got a lot better last night, when he was allowed to say 'ass'.

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  164. Overall good article and excellent points, but for the life of me I don't understand this perspective people have where they criticize WWE for touting (ha!) their community outreach efforts. Virtually EVERY business out there does the same exact thing, the big difference being that WWE has over 5 hours of television airing every week and that they do an AWFUL lot. The firm I work for has less than 500 people nationwide, and even WE produce a video showing off our efforts to help the community, and I am 1,000% certain that the motivations are pure and that we really are helping a lot of people. If there's a way to improve your public image, you owe it to your company to do it.


    It's as if people are saying, "Yeah, you're helping a lot of people. Just not the way I want you to."

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  165. Well...as a country, we're really still in our infancy. Really, we're still an experiment.

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  166. Nudity CAN lead to arousal. It doesn't have to. It's all about context.

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  167. I think just because people are getting the impression that those two are "Vince McMahon guys" who are going to get the endless push no matter what.

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