Hi Scott,
Hope you're well, 2 questions for your (and the bod commenters) consideration:
#1 Best or favourite Scott Hall/Razor Ramon match that didn't include a Kliq member?
#2 WWE ppv edits. Ive read that some dvd sets have bad editing, while other (apart from the blurring) are pretty much left intact. Are there many dvd releases that have some terrible post production editing? I heard that the Brock/Goldberg match on some versions has the crowd boos edited and some don't, head that one of the Wrestlemania anthologies has some blatant editing, I read that match where Dawn Marie did a lesbian gesture was removed etc. I guess just some thoughts and opinions on this.
Take care and keep up the good work,
Scott Bee
#1. Man, that rules a LOT of stuff out. I'd say either Bret Hart at Rumble 93 or the IC title win over Rick Martel.
#2. The match with the "lesbian gesture" was the Mickie v. Trish match at Wrestlemania which they indeed edited out. I honestly don't see much post-production "fixing" anymore, as they seem to be content to let history play out these days.
Scott Hall and Mr. Perfect's tag title run int he AWA was pretty good, but I'd pick Ramon/Flair vs. Hennig/Savage.
ReplyDeleteI'll always remember WM 17 with Rock vs. Austin and on the live show they show Rock dropping his blade after cutting and then buying the DVD only to see that they switched it to a generic crowd shot.
ReplyDelete1. Razor vs. Bret at King of the Ring '93
ReplyDelete2. You know what SHOULD be edited out of a PPV now and forever; when Bobby The Brain says "Yeah but which side is he on!?" as Hulk makes his way out during the 1996 Bash at the Beach. Ruins the moment a bit.
Still mad they cut the Rick Steiner and Sid called spot from the War Games DVD
ReplyDeleteI got the DVD of wm22 from Netflix a few years ago to rip. The crowd during the main event is completely dubbed over
ReplyDeleteI wish they'd edit Nash calling play an adjective.
ReplyDeleteSince 2007, any re-release of Wrestlemania XX has Triple H tapping out to a CGI David Arquette.
ReplyDeleteI would put this 1995 Raw match between Razor and Owen ahead of the others mentioned.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA5mcPohmyQ
That would never happen, as Arquette was a former WCW Champ, HHH would need to get a win on him. (On a similar note, I hope Vince and George Lucas never meet, could you imagine?)
ReplyDeleteSeriously, other examples I can think of:
- Crowd shots when any strangling moves with a weapon are done (which reminds me of the GWF on ESPN now...)
- Is the "Ask Richard Belzer" joke from Jesse still muted from Hogan/Warrior?
- I think Jesse's "It's Roots 2" comment when Mr. T gets whipped is cut out of the SNME DVD.
- Of course, unless it's a major release, Jesse's comentary can't be used in general.
- Music Clearance Monster issues, of course.
It could happen. Triple H doesn't have any fans in post-production because he HAS TOO MANY DAMN DVD's.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty stupid to edit out the boos in the Brock - Goldberg match. The audience made that match legendary. If you eliminate that element, its just a boring match.
ReplyDeleteI think they edit less now because the wrestlers are a lot less likely to do anything "inappropriate" in the ring for fear of breaking the PG edict. Similarly, the fans are different than they were doing the attitude era so there are fewer inappropriate signs to blur out.
ReplyDeleteI watched the DVD of this recently, and it seems like most of the audience backlash was left in. All the chants that I remembered, at least. I did notice that Bad Blood 2004 edits Benoit's snot rocket on Kane. I distinctly remember that on the live PPV, and the DVD cuts to an audience shot.
ReplyDeleteWalmart has it for $12.
ReplyDeleteIt's a pretty good set too
Why?
ReplyDeleteThat blade job was brutal--i think the top section of the alamodome saw rock drop the blade and earl picking it up.
ReplyDeleteHeenan's always done that. When the Ultimate Warrior was running to the ring at WM8 where Papa Shango and Sid where beating Hogan, Heenan said "but is he here to help Papa?".
ReplyDeleteMake sure you get the bluray.
ReplyDeleteDo they have Jesse's commentary on DVDs? It was cut from the Wargames DVD at least.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what they'll use to replace Cult of Personality after Punk retires.
ReplyDelete"But whose side is he on???"
ReplyDeleteAlso a fan actually got in the ring during that as well.
ReplyDeleteI liked that when I saw it live. It was a natural reaction. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Heenan didn't know from Tony Schiavone's rep.
ReplyDeleteJYD was pretty bad in his last days of MSW as well. He got worse and worse as the years went on. Drugs and weight are to blame there.
ReplyDeleteDuggan wasn't allowed to be the stiff bloody brawler in the WWF like he was in MSW. Plus Hogan told him to stop some of his bigger bump spots to help save his body. Less is more type of thing. The only good match or at least fun WWF Duggan match is that brawl at the Slammys against Race IMO.
I did too. Heenan had criticized/made fun of Hogan for years. Thought it played into that ongoing storyline.
ReplyDeleteIt's a verb. PlayFUL is an adjective. If Nash had said, "We're not here to be playful..."
ReplyDeleteThen it would be an adjective
I was always a fan of the ladder match with Goldberg at Souled Out 1999. The crowd is unlike anything you will ever see in WWE today.
ReplyDeleteMy head just exploded when I realized that it does feel like 90% of Scott Hall's career was spent feuding or teaming with a clique member.
ReplyDeleteI cringe every time I see it
ReplyDeleteThe ladder match with Bigelow on Nitro is also good.
ReplyDeleteDid they make it sound more Pro-Cena? The dueling crowd was the best thing about that match
ReplyDeleteHerman always hated Hogan so that wasn't a big issue. The bigger issue is that Hogan joining the NWO effectively turned Heenan face since there was no way Bobby Heenan would root for Hogan even if he was a heel.
ReplyDeleteIf you add Hennig to the mix it's a lot higher.
ReplyDeleteI understand that but why edit it? It's hilarious!
ReplyDeleteYea, I hard a hard time coming up with an answer on that one. It's not that they couldn't work obviously, it's just that they never worked with anyone else really.
ReplyDeleteIts just generic loud nose that sounds very muffeled. Its awful
ReplyDeleteI have the DVD that originally came out in 2006, and while they didn't edit out the boos or Cena Sucks chants, the "FUCK YOU CENA!" chant is drowned out by generic crowd noise.
ReplyDeleteIt's not supposed to be hilarious.
ReplyDeleteLike I said, only when it's something "big," like a WrestleMania or SNME, or a big name's set like Hogan or Piper. I don't think he has ever been on ANY WCW DVD footage, which may explain why 1992 footage is scarce there.
ReplyDeleteLiked Razor - IRS from Summerslam 94. Hall is much better when paired against a technician.
ReplyDeleteThe hand signal from Mickie gets probably the biggest pop of the match and of course edited out.
ReplyDeleteI just watched the HBK/Jericho No Mercy 2008 ladder match from the ladder DVD. Jericho knocks out a couple teeth in the match and is bleeding alot from the mouth. The DVD is edited so blatantly to not focus on any close-ups of Jericho. Even the post match celebration is shown from a far-away hard camera angle. Really takes you out of the match.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Probably a top 3 ladder match ever.
Guess it was great in your imagination, because that match never happened. On any SummerSlam. Ever.
ReplyDeleteCorrected.
ReplyDeleteJyd was AWFUL towards the end of MSW.
ReplyDeleteDuggan vs HBK in 1993 was pretty ace, as was his match v Bossman at RR90. Come to think of it, he had a good match in WCW against Bubba Rogers as well. Guess Traylor was someone Duggan just had that chemistry with.
Ah, yeah that's right. They also met at King of the Ring that year. The Rumble match was the better of the two, but even that I only pegged at 1/2*.
ReplyDeleteTo each their own, I guess.
There was a really good Bret-Bulldog match from an In Your House that they ruined with very wide camera angles due to Bret blading.
ReplyDeleteI wish I had. I got the DVD off a gift card at Walmart and they didn't have the Bluray
ReplyDeleteAlmost blew the entire angle!
ReplyDeleteThat match was awesome! Sadly forgotten most of the time, but yeah, it was a classic. Better than the SummerSlam match in many ways, even.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if part of the issue with Duggan was him being booked like a moron due to him being punished for the 1987 bust.
ReplyDeleteYou missed Buzz Sawyer.
ReplyDeleteRamon vs. Bret from RAW in '96. By the way, that's Rick Bogner Razor Ramon. You can't pick a Scott Hall Razor Ramon match since he himself was a Kliq member.
ReplyDeleteJust saw that for the first time recently. Really, really great match.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I know. When I can afford to I'm going to get the Bluray and give the DVD set away.
ReplyDeleteJarrett... Goldust... um. *blank*
ReplyDeleteAre Big Scott Hall matches acceptable?
ReplyDeleteThe newer releases show Triple H tapping out to short-haired CEO Triple H.
ReplyDeleteIt's great. Greatest thing of all time.
ReplyDeleteHow about WM 17 when Test got his foot stuck in the ropes and it took 20 minutes to get him out. Pretty sure that was edited down on the DVD release.
ReplyDeleteAustin/Hall at WM is pretty underrated.
ReplyDeleteI'll disagree on the "booked like a moron" thing. He was a semi-main eventer. (the Chris Jericho of his time...that's right. I made that comparison.) He got the post WM 4/post-Hogan feud with Andre. He had the post-Hogan feud with Savage. He had the post-Warrior feud with Bravo. He got the pre-Hogan feud with Slaughter (and even got a tv dq win over him). He was crazy over during his "prime run" (87-91), and then had another 2 years with the company where he got the pre-Bret feud with Yoko to get him over enough for the WM main event, and had one of the first legit Raw angles with his sit-in protest to get an IC title rematch.
ReplyDeleteLol. I'm kind of a Duggan fan, so yeah - you're free to disagree, of course.
He had a really great match with Andre at MSG too.
ReplyDeleteDusty and Tony save the whole thing, though, by convincingly discussing how preposterous that sounds. Tony is half of what makes that heel turn great, to be honest.
ReplyDelete"Hulk Hogan, you can go to hell. Straight to hell."
I mean a moron in the sense he was booked to come across as being kind of goofy, with his tongue hanging out, and being treated like he was 'special' by the heel announcers. He was almost a comedic character.
ReplyDeleteI was a fan too. I think I still remembered him from Watts though so I was a bit biased as a kid.
- hasn't "die, eddie, die!" been removed from the brock/eddie match at no way out '04?
ReplyDelete- re: trish/mickie, they also edited out a botched 1st attempt at stratusfaction
- i've seen footage of the hogan batb '96 speech that both does and doesnt include the fan running in and hall stomping him
- i think at new years revolution '07 they cut to a wide shot when hhh blows his quad. i never saw the original and only saw it on 24/7, but the shot they used looks totally out of sync with what was going on right before it happened
Most of the WWF wrestlers at the time were goofy. That was standard. And the "Chris Jericho" comparison is perfect. It's the spot they are grooming Daniel Bryan for. At least its better than being "Tito Santana" (post-1987).
ReplyDeleteThat's Triple H's dream match!
ReplyDeleteExcept the part where he loses.
I've never seen any of duggan pre wwf stuff. I've never got the appeal of him and found him dull in the ring. Is there any stuff you could recommend to better understand the guy's appeal?
ReplyDeleteUm, yeah, the set we're talking about now. He and Ted DiBiase have what Duggan called "the most gimmicked match of all time". Steel Cage, Coal Miner's Glove, Tuxedo, Loser Leaves Mid-South for (I think) 3 months, it sounds like a Russo match.
ReplyDeleteAND THEY MAKE IT WORK.
Even the great book "The King of New Orleans" notes how at his best, JYD was crap in the ring, just covered with charisma and Watts smart enough to book him in short matches.
ReplyDeleteYeah, more stories and matches there, a real bonus.
ReplyDeleteYou know what blows my mind about Duggan? The fact that he apparently was an accomplished amateur before he turned pro.
ReplyDeleteI think he meant "booked like a moron" to mean "he seemed like he was literally retarded". I mean, listen to the Heenan/Ventura commentary at the time- it's pretty clear they thought he was retarded (their word was usually "nuts"). His crossed-eyes, thumbs up and weird goose-stepping adds to that. He even got partnered up with EUGENE on his comeback!
ReplyDeleteHe had some good matches with Vader in WCW
ReplyDelete