The SmarK RAW Rant – 12.02.13
I’m gonna take a shot at doing some Top 10 type articles for Whatculture.com, since they’re not terribly worried about reliability or punctuality, which makes me the perfect person!
Live from Oklahoma City, OK
Your hosts are Michael Cole, JBL & Jerry Lawler
Poor Dolph Ziggler has been reduced to turning the “RAW on Hulu Plus” intros into a little character skit. He sends his girlfriend off to watch RAW while he dates her blonde friend, you see!
CM Punk joins us to start, trying to figure out why the Shield attacked him. He thinks perhaps that HHH had something to do with it for Punk daring to criticize him last week, and that would be a bad idea if true. This brings out Stephanie, who denies all accusations and brings out Libertarian Kane, who declares the issue resolved in the most patronizing manner possible. Punk invites him to fight instead, but the Shield comes out, and Kane books Punk against all three Shield at the PPV. I’m glad they’re finally giving Punk something to sink his teeth into, at least.
Michael Cole GUARANTEES that one man will walk out with both titles at the PPV, honest, no lying, we will not screw you over this time. Honest.
Damien Sandow v. Dolph Ziggler
The winner of this is the #1 contender to the IC title, which I suppose is slightly better than actually being champion and losing every match. It’s the RUBBER MATCH. Ziggler gets a couple of quick rollups and puts Sandow on the floor, but charges and hits the stairs. Back in, Sandow gets two. The ELBOW OF DISDAIN gets two. Moonsault misses and Ziggler gets a DDT for two. Neckbreaker gets two. JBL completely buries Ziggler’s pair of World title reigns for no reason I understand, and the fameasser gets two. Ziggler goes up, but Sandow brings him down and pins him clean with the full nelson slam at 4:00. Just a match, as Ziggler’s rapid descent continues. *
Natalya & The Bella Twins v. AJ Lee, Summer Rae & Tamina, Daughter of Jimmy Snuka.
AJ just skips around the ring, leaving Tamina to fend for herself. Team AJ still manages to get the heat on Brie, and we get some pretty terrible stuff with Summer and Brie. Nattie gets the hot tag, but misses a charge and AJ finally tags in, allowing Nattie to roll her up and pin her at 4:33. * Hulu made me an implied promise not to show me these shitty Divas matches and I feel betrayed by them.
Bad News Barrett joins us at ringside, to inform the crowd that they’re a bunch of hillbillies. Well, I think that after one try we’ve given this repackaging all the time it deserves, and it’s back to the drawing board hopefully.
Next week: Vote now for Insult of the Year! If “Asking fans to pay $60 for Battleground” isn’t the winner, WE RIOT.
Daniel Bryan v. Erick Rowan
Thankfully, Bryan’s condition has been upgraded from “missing” to “back with no explanation”. So that’s good. Bryan throws kicks in the corner, but gets beat down and slammed. Bryan fights him into the Yes-Lock, but Rowan makes the ropes and puts Bryan down again. They head out and Rowan sends him into the railing as we take a break. Back with Bryan fighting out of the chinlock and making the comeback with a missile dropkick, and a rollup off a powerbomb attempt gets the pin at 12:42. Good underdog win, although I wish they’d put Bryan with guys who can work his style again. **1/2
Meanwhile, Kane and Daniel Bryan have a reunion backstage, which results in Bryan getting booked against the Wyatts at the PPV.
Big Show & The Rhodes Brothers v. The Shield
Show beats on Shield members by himself and drops an elbow on Rollins for two. Roman Reigns comes in and gets nowhere, and it’s over to Cody for a front suplex on Rollins that gets two. Cody is looking very orange this week. He gets caught in the Shield corner, but hits Ambrose with a moonsault that gets two. A trip to the post turns the tide, however, and we take a break. Back with Cody getting the heat and coming back for the hot tag to Big Show. He quickly hits the floor and Rollins takes over on him with kicks, and Reigns gets a clothesline for two. Ambrose goes to the chinlock, but Show comes back with a chokeslam on Reigns and makes the hot tag to Goldust. Spinebuster on Reigns gets two, and he gets the powerslam on Rollins. Reigns spears Show on the floor to get rid of him, however, leaving Goldust alone. He superplexes Ambrose, but Rollins sneaks up with a rollup off the impact and gets the pin at 22:23. The creative team is probably like “Eh, we’ve got 30 minutes to kill, let’s throw these guys out for a great match.” ***1/2
Mark Henry v. Fandango
Summer Rae is a trooper, doing double duty here after a grueling Divas match earlier. Remember a few months ago when Fandango was the viral sensation that WWE was going to ride all the way to the top of social media? Henry destroys him, but Fandango comes back with a dropkick to the knee for two. Flying bodypress gets two, but Henry kills him with the slam at 3:20. DUD
EPIC MAIN EVENT CONTRACT SIGNING
Man, they love their contract signings, don’t they? Lawler is already promising the “greatest match in history”. That’s kind of a big promise. HHH recaps all the fake history of the World title and points out that this isn’t a decision that they made on the spur of the moment (BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!) , even though they didn’t even have a NAME for the new belt picked out yet. HHH tries to sell this as a once in a lifetime deal, and then Cena immediately points that they’ve had tons of matches and years of history. Things get HEATED over which of the multiple-time World champions is the least-deserving multiple-time World champion, and it leads to a brawl that is won by Cena.
The Pulse
Another placeholder show as I wish they’d hurry the hell up and get to the Rumble already. The Shield and Goldust continue to be collectively awesome, but there’s just nothing going on right now for anyone to care about.
I gotta say, I agree with Bryan Alvarez when it comes to Ziggler. I dont care about him anymore either and all he really does is take crazy bumps. His offense is really weak
ReplyDelete"Vote now for Insult of the Year! If “Asking fans to pay $60 for Battleground” isn’t the winner, WE RIOT."
ReplyDeleteSounds like the quote of the day to me
I feel bad for anyone who buys the PPV thinking they are going to see a clean finish in the main event.
ReplyDeleteI love that EVERYONE saw the ending coming from the second the match was announced, that the WWE is now desperately trying to convince fans that won't happen...when it's still going to happen.
In retrospect, they should've made the match for 1 of the titles with 1 guy (either Cena or Orton) trying to unify the titles. That would be a more logical sell that fans could get behind and they could keep the titles separate without screwing over the PPV fan AGAIN.
I know everyone wants the Rumble to come around for things to get better...but will they??
i blame swagger for dolph's downfall. he kicked him square in the head and f'd everything up by giving him a concussion which completely derailed everything.
ReplyDeletedolph still has his fans in the crowd, though
True story...awhile back, my wife decided she wanted to have chickens. She really likes eggs, and she said she'd deal with the birds. She and her little brother built a coop.
ReplyDeleteA few years later, the birds are gone. We didn't eat the eggs as fast as the chickens put them out, they were a pain in the ass, and keeping them from freezing during the winter was not worth the effort.
I'd make a shitty farmer.
Does anyone know if WWE's current creative team is any more or less willing to take ideas from the wrestlers than in eras past? I was just thinking, everybody jumps on creative for something like Wade Barrett's new gimmick, but it's possible this was Barrett's idea. Of course creative has to approve it and run with it, but I wonder if fans' opinions on certain characters/angles would change if they knew it came from the wrestler rather than from a writer or from Team HHH.
ReplyDeleteBest promo I've seen out of Bray so far. I was driving the anti Wyatt bandwagon for awhile but this program has helped them...I think I'm slowly becoming a fan.
ReplyDeleteGood things: Goldust/Cody Rhodes, The Shield, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, The Wyatt push, putting Hunico back in the Sin Cara mask.
ReplyDeleteBad things: The Authority, Cena vs. Orton, implied screwjob on the unification, Big Show, weak Divas division, puking Titus.
The title scene has been messed up since taking the title off Punk, and not letting Ziggler run with the WHC for more than a month.
Just my take.
Agreed. So curious to see where it goes. Bryan actually joining sounds fun but I could see a scenario where Bryan joins them but uses it as leverage to take them out from the inside. Could see a big pop when he pretends to be in the family an then attacks.
ReplyDeleteI could go with this. It's not like doing the job would hurt Cena. I take it he would not have a title for this match?
ReplyDeleteI don't know if 'Taker has 3 manias left. I suppose if the payday is there, he can manage. I'm a little afraid of him somehow sustaining serious injury, which would suck ass. But, that risk can be minimized.
Kane was kidnapped by the Wyatt's. So why would he help them? Isn't it obvious?
ReplyDeleteThe Wyatt's, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires, convinced Kane to join the Authority!
Chicken and waffles is a Princess home Sunday Brunch staple. So so good.
ReplyDeleteScott, I don't think I've seen you make any comments ts about the announcing in awhile. Thoughts? It seriously makes me cringe...its so bad and over the topic, especially during the comedy stuff, it comes off like a parody.
ReplyDeleteReverse vampire?
ReplyDeleteI think they'll be uber protective of him but at his age there's always a risk of injury. Even though that chance is small, it's still there. Part of the reason I think they're nuts if they don't go with Cena/Taker this year.
ReplyDeleteI was totally unprepared for the deliciousness that this is.
ReplyDeleteThat makes sense to me.
ReplyDeleteRE: Wade Barrett. Goddammit, it shouldn't be THIS HARD to book a legit tough guy with a good look who can talk on the mic, should it?
ReplyDeleteI've also read that when he worked with people that liked to call matched he overdid it. Santana especially had to reign him in because he liked to write down all the moves in a match beforehand and made sure he got in certain spots.
ReplyDeleteThis IS Sports Entertainment...
ReplyDeleteThey can make anything look downright impossible. Why? Because they say so.
We're through the looking glass, people...
ReplyDeleteThey give you blood by force
ReplyDeleteAs much as I can appreciate two 3-on-1 handicap matches, asking people to pay money for that just screams NO BUYS!
ReplyDeleteWe're through the looking glass, people.
ReplyDeleteWait, does that now mean we're now back out of the looking glass?...
ReplyDeleteIt's not like they were doing anything with Hunico anyway, so I approve of this move.
ReplyDeleteWell said. It's so fucking annoying. The dudes good on the mic, was instantly over during his nexus run, and has a great tough guy back story. Of all lol the things to help him get over...THIS is what they come up with? Wtf.
ReplyDeleteYou do not love Daniel Bryan! You love HHH and Stephanie McMahon!
ReplyDeleteWell people who donate blood can't be ALL bad, can they?
ReplyDeleteRetcon depush kick?
ReplyDeleteHuh. This is really a thing? Go figure. Quick search reveals.....well, this:
ReplyDeletehttp://mysticinvestigations.com/supernatural-beings/reverse_vampires.htm
Chicken and waffles are the greatest weird combo meal known to man. Seconded by fish and grits or fish and spaghetti.
ReplyDeleteI'm not much of a grits guy. What kind of fish/prepared in what way? The chicken with chicken & waffles has to be fried; pretty sure it wouldn't work with grilled or baked.
ReplyDeleteHBK's book stated that people like Nash are creative and needed to do different things in a match. It keeps things fresh.
ReplyDeleteRepost from the PG RAW rant: Does anyone know if WWE's current creative team is any more or less willing to take ideas from the wrestlers than in eras past? Everybody jumps on creative for something like Wade Barrett's new gimmick, but it's possible this was Barrett's idea. Of course creative has to approve it and run with it, but I wonder if fans' opinions on certain characters/angles would change -- or if they'd give them more leeway -- if they knew it came from the wrestler rather than from a writer or from Team HHH.
ReplyDelete"DO IT TO SOMEONE ELSE! DO IT TO D-BRY!"
ReplyDelete"Hulu made me an implied promise not to show me these shitty Divas matches and I feel betrayed by them."
ReplyDeleteThey pulled a Russo on you, and you "didn't read the fine print".
I say this not mockingly, but truthfully: no.
ReplyDeleteWhy are they not doing the unification match at Wrestlemania with Cena vs someone else?
ReplyDeleteI would still think it's worthless regardless of who thought of it.
ReplyDeleteI would feel as badly for him though if it was his idra. At least it would be HIS failure/success as opposed to failing/succeeding with someone else's idea, if that makes sense
I'm a big fan of eggs on burgers. For me, my toppings are egg, grilled onions, grilled mushrooms, melted American/cheddar/cheese whiz, lettuce, tomatoes, bacon, mayo and ketchup.
ReplyDeleteI've done lots of that type of burger at different "premium" burger joints, and it usually works out really well. If I go heavy on cheese whiz, I usually go without mayo + ketchup.
That kind of thinking might fly in Rand McNally, where people wear shoes on their hands and hamburgers eat people, but this is America! We tell stories and create separation here!
ReplyDeleteEveryone should eat chicken and waffles at some point in their life. Fucking love it. Such a great, random combination of foods.
ReplyDeleteI love Triple H. But he shouldn't be doing these part-time matches. It seems like he can't really capture the magic anymore with random dudes. He needs somebody who he has chemistry with.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I'm always in favor of IWC going nuts over whatever Triple H did (or did not do, or perceived to have done). It certainly entertains me.
Because they need to unify the titles NOW to split them up again the night after Wrestlemania
ReplyDeleteYour thoughts on cheese whiz on a burger intrigue me. I'm typically not a fan but I can see it working on a burger.
ReplyDeleteYeah, 3-on-1 handicap matches scream RAW or SMACKDOWN to me, whereas the 6-man tags they've been putting on RAW seem more like PPV matches to me
ReplyDeleteAhhhhhhhhhh I see.
ReplyDeleteNobody cares about the actual unification...its just an extra prop to a help sell a match that we've seen tons of times.
ReplyDeleteAt this point...things appear to be a mess...oh well, fantasy booking time!
ReplyDeleteAt WM: faces first, heels second.
Sin Cara and Rey vs. Real Americans
Rhodes vs. Usos (face vs face)
4-10 Divas battle royale
Santino, Tensai, and R-Truth vs. Damien Sandow, Brodus Clay, and Dolph Ziggler (heel turn before WM)
Daniel Bryan and Big Show vs. Kane and the Wyatts
CM Punk vs. Triple H
John Cena and Hulk Hogan vs. Brock Lesnar, Ryback, and Curtis Axel w/ Paul Heyman
Undertaker vs. the Shield
Yeah that looks fairly terrible.
Well, it depends on what you considered Undertaker in the early parts of his career
ReplyDeleteWow. If the Undertaker goes over the Shield at WrestleMania the IWC will have a collective aneurysm.
ReplyDeleteDolph & AJ were a flop together. AJ is garbage as a valet
ReplyDeleteI think that's the consensus. Match wise, the SummerSlam '92 one is better... angle wise, there isn't a 30 minute block of wrestling that can touch them at WM7.
ReplyDeleteWhiting or porgies fried in corm meal. It's a southern breakfast.
ReplyDeleteAll this stuff has to be fried in artery-clogging shortening for maximum effect.
The key to Savage's effectiveness with this style of constructing a match was that his primary focus was on heat. Every part of the match was designed to get major heat. Obviously the talent was going to make the match good but Savage was great at the heat and putting together the spots that fans were going to react to.
ReplyDeleteOh...thanks...
ReplyDelete: Starts to yell at himself:
Hm. That is a valid point.
ReplyDeleteI'm beginning to think his gimmick is to change gimmicks every 6 months.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he should just do the Charlie Haas and change gimmicks every week.
I was entertained by them, and I wouldn't call AJ "garbage" as a valet. I suspect she did pretty much what she was told, though I have no evidence.
ReplyDeleteSounds good to me.
ReplyDeleteEither Cena cheats to win in order to kick-off the big heel-turn, or Taker wins. Cena winning cleanly just to get the "respect handshake" afterwards doesn't do anything for anyone.
ReplyDeleteThat said, it might be smart to have Taker win, so that if someone else down the line DOES end the Streak, that win is even bigger.
(roll with angery....it'll get over)
ReplyDeleteI think Farva has it right and Cena has to job if this match takes place.
ReplyDelete"Hulu made me an implied promise not to show me these shitty Divas matches and I feel betrayed by them."
ReplyDeleteYou rated it every bit as good as Sandow/Ziggler, which you met with only indifference.
Misogynist.
Because they have something even BIGGER for that!
ReplyDeleteSame scenario when he wrestled the Rock: makes a mistake and gets Tombstoned. Afterwards he snaps and beats the piss out of the Undertaker, sending him into retirement.
ReplyDeleteI am slowly thinking that you are HHH....trying to troll the blog?
ReplyDeleteCause honestly I don't think the unification would actually affect a Mania buyrate in the slightest. It's not a real draw, in the sense that Rock appearing is a draw. It's just something that sounds interesting on paper but in the end teh audience doesn't actually give a shit.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think it's a smart idea to just do it at a B-show and maybe get a handful of extra buys here.
You can actually take the chicken breast and fry the outside, then put it in the stove and bake it the rest of the way. It makes the crust come out flaky and the meat is not dried out.
ReplyDeleteDuring Ziggler's matches, she would sit outside of the ring and display the animation of a cinder block. She literally stood there an did nothing.
ReplyDeleteJBL is the fucking worst announcer. At least Lawler is just lazy and checked out, and Cole is just a bland corporate robot. JBL is actively trying to make the show unwatchable.
ReplyDeleteHHH (to himself) : Last time I faced Punk it was full of interference. That can't make me look strong. I must beat Punk one more time by myself to prove that I am the best.
ReplyDeleteThis also sounds good.
ReplyDeleteFINE.
ReplyDeleteI need to learn to let go of the nWo. =(
I haven't watched any of those matches with Dolph & AJ for some time, so I can't comment with any authority on what she may or may not have done. I do recall thinking many times that she was good at her job. I can't say the same for Summer Rae.
ReplyDeleteAs or AJ in the ring, she sells well, and has a decent moveset. As you essentially said, it's not like she really has all that much to work with. As for whether or not she's a star...well, I suppose it depends on how you define the word.
I've never had chicken and waffles (it's not really a Canadian thing), but it just sounds SO weird...
ReplyDeleteDoes she move merchandise? Do people pay to see her? Do ratings spike up significantly in her segments? Does she have specials? Can you name one memorable match that she had?
ReplyDeleteBecause that is what makes you a star and I think we all know the answers to those questions.
And gimme a break about AJ being better than Summer Rae as a valet. Summer Rae actually gets involved in the matches, which makes her better by default. Not to sound like a dick, but AJ is a star in your mind and in the minds of others on this blog.
In pro-wrestling fantasy world, what's the logic behind contract signings? Does every match -- from Fandango vs. Mark Henry on a random RAW up to Rock vs. Cena at WrestleMania -- involve a contract signing, but they only show us the signings for major-big-huge-deal PPV matches? Or do you only sign contracts for major-big-deal matches? And what's on the contract? Is it full of legal stuff and injury releases and stipulations, or is it just a guarantee that the wrestlers are going to show up for the match?
ReplyDeleteI understand, and I remember. Yes. It sounds insanely weird. I thought it sounded disgusting. Then I tried it.
ReplyDeleteNom.
Of course, it has to be good chicken and good waffles. I think Denny's would find a way to fuck it up.
Great match, still my fav savage match is vs flair at wm viii.
ReplyDeleteWhat did Ziggler do to get this de-push? Backstage politics, or is he being blamed for a weak WHC title run?
ReplyDeleteGlad to see that Ziggler has hit the same level as Ryder. Pretty soon Bryan will be down in the pits of hell as well. Another notch on the belt of HHH to further kill off any wrestlers with potential.
ReplyDeleteThe value Bryan a lot higher than they do Ziggler
ReplyDeleteAJ's merch sells far better than any other current Diva's.
ReplyDeleteI agree, but it amazes me that they continue to punish those guys who get themselves over outside of creative/Vince/HHH. Not saying they would turn the business around, but it is almost reached absurd levels of stupidity with them.
ReplyDeleteZiggler, by reports, has kinda dug his own grave due to being outspoken.
ReplyDeleteWell, that brings a few things to mind.
ReplyDeleteI'm not privy to sales numbers from the WWE; if you are, more power to you. I don't follow the ratings closely enough to see if she generates an uptick, downturn, or doesn't move the needle at all. The match she had with an African American girl while in NXT really turned my head on what she could do in the ring and gave me a reason to watch her ring work more closely. I do not know her opponent's name, nor do I still have the link. Someone within the blog was kind enough to share it with me, and if you haven't seen it, I would say it is worth your time.
I was under the impression that the decision to get involved or not get involved in matches in today's WWE was not left up to the valets or managers. If I'm wrong, feel free to say so.
I have never said AJ was a star, and I won't presume to speak for the opinions of others. I said that I enjoy her work. I think she has what can best be described as great acting chops as it pertains to wrestling, and I've come around on her ring work. If you'll take the time to go back and review my posts on her (and no, I don't expect you to do so), you'll find that I wasn't much of a fan of it until fairly recently. The match I mentioned turned me around, and I now appreciate her more.
I did not say that AJ was a better valet than Summer Rae.
As I find myself saying with growing frequency, it's a matter of taste and opinion. You like what you like; I enjoy what I enjoy. If we all liked the same thing, life would get boring rather quickly.
This card proves McMahon didn't trust Flair as a Go-to guy in the WWF at the time. Flair not even having a match on this shows you that. Also its no coincidence Flair got demoted down to mid card soon after this.
ReplyDelete"I did not say that AJ was a better valet than Summer Rae."
ReplyDeleteYou just implied it I guess.
"I do recall thinking many times that she (meaning AJ) was good at her job (as a valet). I can't say the same for Summer Rae."
Tastes are a matter of opinion. However, declaring someone a star who does not have anything at all to back up that claim is just a false statement
Just think the crowd for this show almost represents the amount of ppl who ordered battleground .
ReplyDeleteDidn't he win the title soon after this?
ReplyDeleteHow is he punished? He's in a top level feud with the Wyatt's. I would assume if he wasn't valued then he wouldn't be on tv, or at the very least not in anything significant let alone being put on the upper card of ppv's.
ReplyDeleteShe is also the only diva with more than two merchandise items so I should certainly hope so
ReplyDeleteI just don't get the appeal of these 3 on 1 handicap matches on a PPV. It just doesn't seem like a high caliber match but more of a filler match. Why not just do Shield/Wyatt's vs Punk/Bryan/Goldust/Cody/Show at the PPV in a multi man TLC match and let them go out there and have a crazy fun match. Or even better 2 Shield guys vs 2 Wyatt's vs Punk/Bryan vs Cody/Goldust in a ladder match for the tag titles. Either one of those matches would be more fun and bigger draws than those handicap matches.
ReplyDeleteMy words implied my own tastes and opinion. I purposefully did not declare one to be better than the other because I consider it to be a subjective thing.
ReplyDeleteAnd again; regardless of what makes up a star in anyone's mind, I never said she was. I also did not state she wasn't. The closest I came to making a declarative statement was that I didn't consider AJ to be "garbage" as a valet.
Truly, I generally enjoy watching her work, and I usually enjoy Dolph in the ring. Additionally, I don't really care about Summer Rae's work one way or the other, as she is now. Things change. I indicated my opinion of AJ has changed.
To further complicate things, one could make the statement that anyone is star to them with no need to quantify it. I'm not going that far.
Call in Lionel Hutz to prosecute.
ReplyDeleteand the water goes forwards!
ReplyDeletei don't think anyone missed it.
ReplyDeleteHaha, I've always wondered about this. Don't forget the contract including the "winner's purse" that Gorilla and Jesse used to talk about that made even the most pedestrian of midcard matches seem important. One thing that struck me as a kid is how many contracts did guys have to sign and did someone REALLY have to sign a contract to face the Brooklyn Brawler?
ReplyDeleteCome to think of it, that would sorta be a cool gimmick for a heel. A heel wins a belt, like the IC title, and only signs contracts to face jobbers every 30 days so he can keep the belt. I'm thinking of Bret Hart when he was U.S. champion in WCW and claiming that El Dandy deserved a shot. That is probably my favorite Bret promo of all time.
have you forgotten 2 years ago?
ReplyDeletePunk will start complaining, then look like a whiner while HHH is the voice of reason being both a heel and pandering to fans, and Punk will finally job to a Pedigree or three.
Where do the Libertarians become involved, or are we considering them either the saucer people or the reverse vampires?
ReplyDeleteThis. I don't know where this "Ziggler got himself over with no help and is being buried for it" thing is coming from. Ziggler got over wrestling the matches and doing the story lines the WWE put him in. He got buried because he was a dumbass and shittalked the one TV show the WWE has that's getting Vince the mainstream attention he craves. Worse yet, he shittalked it publicly to the media during the company's second biggest media weekend.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing he and Ryder have in common is that they're both lower than the shit on the bottom of Vince's shoe. Ziggler did it to himself, though.
Based on last night that insane ladder match would see Goldust do a corkscrew splash from the top of a ladder in the ring through an announce table like a video game. But you're right. That kind of a ladder match would be a GREAT sell for the show and it'd have a good backstory at least as far as Punk/Bryan vs. Wyatts went and then you have potential fighting between the Shield and Wyatts, which got a great pop on RAW. Nevermind that you could have it start as an eight man tag as the Shield and Wyatts team up against the face teams, but then everyone turns on each other.
ReplyDelete....so of course, I'm sure someone brought this up in last week's creative meeting, was labeled a "wrestling nerd," and it was thrown in the trash in favor of the 3-on-1 handicap match idea.
This. This isn't Stone Cold and Goldberg unifying the WWF & WCW titles in 1998.
ReplyDeleteIt's two guys who have wrestled in nearly every single gimmick match there is unifying the WWE Title and HHH's vanity belt-turned-the fake world title. That's not so exciting you need to save it for WM.
Commentary is awful. I can't believe Michael Cole is still in this company and is the lead play-by-play guy. I thought back in 1997 that the guy should be canned by the end of the century, but he just kept going despite his notable botches about how you could mess up your fingers in the meshing of Hell in a Cell, that the tombstone for Buried Alive weighed tons, etc. At least Cole isn't doing the "I'm gay for Miz" shtick anymore or randomly hating on the faces. THAT was the worst time to listen to commentary.
ReplyDeleteMy big problem with commentary is that they don't really seem to be putting anyone over, there is not a clear face/heel divide on the team (JBL roots for some heels, but then signs along with the R-Truth thing), and they laugh and crack jokes during the divas matches or undercard matches. If the announce team doesn't care about the match then why should I give it my time of day? Also, the "banter" between the announce team doesn't feel genuine and there's no chemistry there. With Monsoon/Ventura, McMahon/Ventura, Monsoon/Heenan, McMahon/Lawler, and Ross/Lawler you always felt that their interaction was really natural. They were calling a fake product but did it in such an over the top manner that you got drawn. These teams had comedy bits, but they made fun of EACH OTHER and not really the talent and they didn't crack up at each other's bits. I guess what it boils down to is that all those announcers were CHARACTERS.
Anyone remember the Ventura "guest show" episode where he commentated the main event battle royal with McMahon? Even though McMahon seemed like he didn't want to be there, it was miles better than the usual commentary team. Someone on here or somewhere else I read proposed a gimmick where Vince goes crazy and starts wearing his old WWF jackets and such and goes back to his commentary role, completely oblivious to the fact that he owns the company or had any role in the Attitude Era. I know Vince wasn't really an IWC favorite on commentary, but I grew up with him and I'd take his stuff over Cole any day of the week.
Yes about three weeks later
ReplyDeleteAs someone said last night, puking Titus makes NO sense. The guy just ate too much on Smackdown, it's not as if he suffers from a debilitating medical problem.
ReplyDeleteWho even buys divas merchandise?
ReplyDeleteYeah, the matches I suggested have some solid backstory on multiple levels. It could easily be billed as the #2 match, be a good match and I'm sure that match sounds more appealing than a couple of handicap matches. Your probably right or somebody in creative had the idea but didn't speak up out of fear of the idea not being in line with Vince/Steph/Hunters vision. I still can't believe that a writer was mocked and called a nerd for planning things out long term and having storyboards to visualize the storylines.
ReplyDeleteUndertaker coming back to help Punk is a possibility. It would be cool to see them team together to take on a common enemy. You could even start it out with neither Punk or Taker trusting the other but eventually Punk earns Takers trust and respect. Now having said that, the idea seems too good and makes too much sense for wwe to use it.
I always get sort of sad with this match because we could've gotten heel Warrior out of it and that would've been really, really cool for a while.
ReplyDeleteI think with the Rumble coming up we should have discussions about each one, so maybe those could be posted a few days apart from each other? Not sure if they are all on YouTube, but it'd be an interesting outgrowth of this concept.
I'd put the Real Americans against the Rhodes. I've become a big fan of Cesaro's work and I feel like the tag titles are starting to matter again since we've got quite a few teams on the roster (Usos, Rhodes, Shield, Wyatts, Bryan/Punk, Titus/Young, Real Americans).
ReplyDeleteFor divas, maybe do the AJ/Tamina blow off that they seem to be angling for?
I never saw anyone wear any before
ReplyDeleteYou are so wrong with this and your anti-Ziggler stuff that I don't even know where to begin. I guess the fact that you're acting like it's fact is rubbing me the wrong way as well. Ziggler has had some kickass matches against Bryan, Punk, Sheamus, Cena, and Del Rio over the years. His offense is crisp, in my opinion. His selling is amazing. And if you've ever seen some of his comedy act or his youtube show, you'd know he can bring the goods on the mic.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, AJ is more over than 2/3 of the male roster.
I liked Triple H as an IC title-level midcarder. After that, not so much.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, you should sign up to be one of AJ's 1.2 million followers or so. She retweets all of the pics of men and women of all ages who have bought her merch.
ReplyDeleteYou're coming off as very crass in this thread.
Ziggler's matches the past six months have been lackluster, particularly his offense. I am not saying his whole career has been like that but have you really been seeing great stuff from Dolph lately? Plus, I am not anti-Ziggler as you claim, just stating the obvious, which is he is coasting by in meaningless matches lately.
ReplyDeleteAJ might be more over than 2/3 of the males, but still not a star. There are very few stars even on the roster and she is not one of them. AJ isnt moving buyrates, segments, or anything else.
You can look at someonne re-tweeting pics of those buying her merchandise in two ways, she loves to connects with her fans or that she is doing it in a way that says "hey, look, people love me and buy my stuff all the time!!!!!". And honestly, I think it is because she cares about connecting with her fans, which is a great thing and the reason that she has that many followers, by maknig herself easily accesible to the fans.
ReplyDeleteLook, if you tell me that AJ is the best diva on the roster, I absolutely agree. However, in the grand scheme of things, she really isnt a huge star. You have Cena, Orton, Punk, and Bryan as the biggest stars currently on the roster and AJ is not at that level. If you main event house shows and TV and PPV's, then you are a star.
Not trying to offend anyone, if you are I will apologize to you, here but I will defend my point
Listening to Bryan on Austin's podcast. Bryan does the nicest, most diplomatic job of calling Orton an asshole I've ever heard. "Very particular in his warm ups and routines"
ReplyDeleteI feel ripped off that we never got to see the PAY WINDAH, DADDY!
ReplyDeleteThat was a right-pretty speech, sir. But I ask you, what is a contract? Webster's defines it as "an agreement under the law which is unbreakable." Which is unbreakable!
ReplyDeleteAs pointed out by both Kevin Kelly and Lance Storm, Ziggler falling off the map is a self-fulfilling prophecy anyway. He was never destined for greatness, because his name is Dolph Ziggler. Unlike Mr. McGillicutty however, he could actually disappear for a little while and come back under a different name and actually succeed.
ReplyDeleteUnfair 3 - 1 matches ordered by a tyrannical HHH?
ReplyDeleteCrank that music up:
NO CHANCE, NO CHANCE IN HELL!!!
I don't think the Wyatt feud is top level, especially since Punk is now moved on to the Shield. Fighting the Wyatt's in the 4 match from the main event is "punishment" when he seems to be blamed for low ratings in his feud with Orton. I wish the guy was main eventing, but unfortunately, Bryan's act is now midcard. I bet he will be fighting for either the US or IC title in the next few months trying to "elevate" that as well.
ReplyDeleteSummer Rae boosted it 1/2* because she's getting better every week in NXT. So it was an artificially inflated rating.
ReplyDeleteObviously, Nash never knew when he might have a creative epiphany and hit a sidewalk slam or big boot
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure it's fair to compare any Diva to an upper-card performer since the Divas are never put on that level. The only Divas I would consider stars were Sunny, Sable, and Trish. Two pieces of eye candy at the forefront/height of the Attitude Era (meaning they dressed as slutty as possible and/or posed nude) and one actual wrestler who started as eye candy. And as much as I like Trish, I'm even hesitant to consider her a star. Women simply aren't worth shit in US wrestling.
ReplyDeleteWyatt's are below the shield in wwe pecking order. So its a step back for him. I agree at least he's on TV but its probably a stretch to even call it a lateral move.
ReplyDeleteAs a fan of wrestling a find it quite despicable that one of their most interesting talents is getting used less because he said something that is basically true and did it in half way kayfabe. Hey Vince, how about you get over yourself and just put on show thats good?
ReplyDeleteThat's very true.
ReplyDeleteGetting tired of people always crapping on the history of the World Title. Screw the NWA, those initials had possession of the World title for a long while yes, but perhaps it is time to change the old tired argument... It isn't the 'National Wrestling Alliance' that matters, it is the 'World' title itself that is important, regardless of which promoters were controlling it at the time.
ReplyDeleteIs the lineage from Hackenchmidt to Cena muddy? Sure, but so are the constant vacancies and management changes of the farcical 'World ' title claim put up by the limp shadow currently calling itself the NWA.
The title first became disputed after the multiple retirements of Frank Gotch, but it was soon resolved by the widely recognized Joe Stecher in 1915 and again by Earl Caddock by 1920. Control of the title was bounced around by different promoters from Farmer Burns, to Jack Curley, to Billy Sandow, all with different trusts and agendas... But the title remained the same through the 1920's reigns of Ed Lewis and others. Admittedly in the 1930's the lineage gets very messy with the New York State Athletic Commission recognizing a champion, the original AWA (out of Boston) splitting from the earlier trusts and the multiple vacancies of the original NWA (National Wrestling Association) during the decade.
But by the 1940's the three lineages split from the original title become more clear with Steve Casey and Frank Sexton dominating in the old AWA branch, Lou Thesz and Bill Longson in the old NWA branch and Jim Londos retiring as champion in the third branch. The mid-west formation of the National Wrestling Alliance in 1948 likely would not have amounted to much, if Lou Thesz and his already established National Wrestling Alliance claim to the World title, had not been involved. He actually unified the remaining lines from the original 1905 World Title by merging both the new and old NWA World titles along with defeating Gorgeous George for his title in 1950 to bring the old AWA lineage dispute to a close. This is what gave the National Wrestling Alliance the power and the ability to now claim control over the long existing 'World' Title.
Sure there had been a lot of messy disputes, but it is not like the lineage disputes stopped when the new NWA formed. After Edouard Carpentier's victory over Thesz in 1957, the WWA in California claimed an alternate linage when Freddie Blassie defeated Carpentier, and Vern Gagne claimed another version when he also defeated Carpentier in Omaha (which eventually led to Gagne claiming the new AWA World Title in 1960). Then of course there was the WWWF forming in 1963 after refusing to recognize Lou Thesz' title victory over Buddy Rogers.
Crockett promotions completely controlled the NWA and the World title by the mid-80's and the sale to Turner was years before the change to WCW, which was in name only (akin to WWF becoming WWE). Ric Flair jumping to WWF in '92 with the big gold belt was just a coincidence in timing. The attempt at reviving the NWA through a deal with NJPW in '93 could merely be seen as another title split or the creation of a new title all together (the two WCW Titles unified again in '94 anyway). WCW goes is bought out, but the titles remain... and the few month long unification in 2001 with the WWE lineage, does not automatically invalidate the over 100 year history of the title.
If the title Bischoff pulled out of the briefcase and awarded to HHH wasn't meant to be the same title, why make it look the same as the World title that existed at Wrestlemania just months prior, and why call it the 'World' title. Also why constantly refer to previous NWA and pre-NWA World Title holders as previous champions? It isn't about the promotion or promoters that temporarily gained control of it through the years, it is about the designation 'World Title' and the title itself. Sorry for all the history and/or lack of brevity.
I agree with that. Sunny and Sable were eye candy but major stars. Even Chyna was sort of a star before she became a joke. Trish was the last diva they had that resembled a star. Lita was close too. However, AJ does not fit in with these performers in terms of popularity. And I agree that Women arent worth anything in U.S. wrestling today, which can have a little bit to do with that too. AJ seems like a nice girl but is also more of an overachiever than a star, IMO
ReplyDeleteI dig it
ReplyDeleteHe did carry himself as a star for such a youngster but he wasnt insanely over....
ReplyDeleteI can go along with this. I see HBK more in the Flair levels, great performers but not on the level of a Hulk Hogan or a Stone Cold....
ReplyDeleteI think that is great too...
ReplyDeleteI always assumed it was something they took from boxing.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but this is how every business on Earth works. You want to shittalk something your boss is proud of? Do it in the car with your buddy. Don't do it to the goddamned media. That's a special kind of retarded.
ReplyDeleteHm. Would make donating blood by force...blood rape? Reverse blood rape?
ReplyDeleteSo with DB, are we doing the Brown Hornet's "he miraculously escaped unharmed" bit? And what happened to Big Show's concussion?
ReplyDeleteI liked Vince's commentary because he was really enthusiastic, even if he sounded as dumb as a box of rocks.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Battleground, it's already down to $9.99 at Best Buy w/o even being a holiday sale. And that's still too much for it.
ReplyDeleteNo way, the Goldust/Rhodes w/Dusty vs the Shield match was epic and the best wrestling 'moment' of the year.
ReplyDeleteUpvoted for the awesome Fat Albert reference.
ReplyDeleteSo, when they talk about the World Title's history (which even on WWE.com, it shows that the first World Champion was Triple H, and when they did that last for top ten World Champs, guys like Flair and Race weren't on there), do they claim it shares the WCW Title lineage as well as the NWA?
ReplyDeleteIf so, then I like how in his feud with Booker, Triple H claimed that WCW was a joke because guys like David Arquette held the WCW Title.
It's fascinating to see people complain when they don't listen to the Internet and then complain when they do. :) (not saying you specifically)
ReplyDeleteThe Bad News Barrett gimmick has been on the JBL and Cole show for the last 2 months and the fan reaction to it on Twitter and other sites is probably what convinced them to give it a go.
Does somebody hate you, man? What's with the downvotes?
ReplyDeleteYou're right. Just wait, sheamus will be back soon to reclaim the main event scene that he deserves. Lol
ReplyDeleteExcept HHH and JBL are heels.
ReplyDeleteAnd Cena is a MASSIVE hypocrite, his character has adopted this weird oblivious holier-than-thou shtick for a couple of years now.
You haven't seen SmackDown, his matches completely shit the bed, and all the non-Bryan parts of that match were dreadfully dull.
ReplyDeleteWrestling fans in general skew to to the left. And urban centers (which is where shows happen) also tend to the left. Actually this country has been slowly shifting left since the 80s.
ReplyDeleteI think an ADR tag run would be good. Either turn him face with Ricardo or keep him heel and make the Arm Breakers with Leo Kruger (who has personality but tends towards the generic as a worker).
ReplyDeleteThat's the main thing. Goldy is in good ring shape, but don't take him out of the bodysuit.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of artificially inflated.
ReplyDeleteNikki Bella has obviously had breast enlargement surgery.
Hrm, bail me out 1978.
Would it be a bad idea to just run "best of 2013" shows for December and give the current product a month to recharge and maybe figure out something better?
ReplyDeleteYou take away all of profitable gates for live RAW shows. Not Best for Business.
ReplyDeleteNeither are 100k buyrates
ReplyDeleteAnd who's to say they could do live shows? He'll they could do their big houses and possibly test run some things.
ReplyDeleteI think Battleground debuted on DVD at $10 everywhere. I guess WWE knew it was shitty, so they didn't have the nerve to charge full price.
ReplyDeleteI really don't feel a heel Warrior ever would have worked. Just as I feel a heel Cena wouldn't work. Honestly when he was a heel before I thought he was terrible at it. Mind you I'm old school and want my heels making children cry, not repeating what they say on the mic. Cena never had it in him to be a good, true heel. Warrior wouldn't either.
ReplyDeleteWell, he's on pace to shatter the record for most theme songs in a wrestler's career. I miss the days when The Corrrrrrrrrrrrrre would have a new remix every week.
ReplyDeleteSounds like a good angle for David Otunga, or if they had Otunga working as Damien Sandow's manager.
ReplyDeleteI like Ziggler. But I care about his success less and less as time goes on and the roster gets better. He was a definite standout in 2011 and most of 2012, but as the roster around him gets better, he becomes less of a personal draw. I'd much rather get behind, say, a big Sami Zayn push at this point. Or something for Antonio Cesaro. Or post-shield Ambrose. Or Adrian Neville. Or Xavier Woods.
ReplyDeleteHas WWE ever considered having an offseason? Does the business model of pro wrestling allow for it? If so, it would really help the product.
ReplyDeleteSince WWE doesn't have any real competition anymore, I'd think they could afford to take at least a couple months off from TV each year. It would prolong wrestlers' careers by cutting down on injuries, create a defined TV and storyline schedule, eliminate some of the feeling that they're going through the motions with the TV shows -- especially during this "down season" everybody recognizes -- and create some genuine anticipation between seasons. Have WrestleMania as the "season finale," go off the air, and come back in like July to start building for SummerSlam. Move the Money In The Bank PPV to October or December in place of TLC. And bring back King of the Ring, because it's cool.
Still better than a 0k buyrate, which is what your lack of a show would bring in.
ReplyDeleteYou know that a house show doesn't draw nearly as well as a RAW taping.
Couldn't tell you for sure. It may have started before this, but it might have something to do with Monday's Raw thread. Magoonie talked about quitting smoking, and I made an offhand remark about celebrating with a smoke. It bothered Parallax, though at the time, I didn't realize it. When I went over the thread on Tues morning, Magoonie said it had bothered him as well, so I apologized. No idea if he's aware.
ReplyDeleteBut, like I said, I really don't know for sure. It doesn't really matter; I can't control what folks do, and it's not like it bugs me. I have a knack for unintentionally pissing people off, but if I feel I've done something wrong, I will happily apologize.
< chuckle > However, it's not like it really makes much of a difference in my world. Enjoy your day.
And strangely enough, the only good theme he ever had was that phase when he used Jericho's music on the first season of NXT.
ReplyDeleteA curiosity more than anything else. I've said some weird shit on here before. i just chalk it up to a tough room.
ReplyDeleteCould well be all there is to it.
ReplyDeleteThat difference is extremely subjective. Are you suggesting that the .25 between 3.75 and 4.00 should be more difficult to obtain than the .25 between 3.25 and 3.5 or any other such gap? If so, that seems too symbolic.
ReplyDeleteNo I was saying that from watching that match he should know its not a 4 star match (it wasn't) and you can't just annoit every TV match that's good 4 stars. But I wouldn't say the difference between 3.75 and 4.00 is wider than between dud and .25. But I would also say you are more wrong saying a 3.5 star match is 4 stars than if you say a 2 star match is 2.5. 4 stars is greatness. I only pointed it out because I've seen him do this before. I like his reviews but I was just pointing out a disagreement with the star rating. IMO he was way more off on the Bryan match.
ReplyDelete