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Question/plug request


Hey Scott,

This is SteveOB, minimal commenter, on the blog.

First, I need to request a plug for mine and my friends Springsteen blog, www.legendsofspringsteen.com.   You've plugged for us before, and we greatly appreciate it.  If you, or anyone else here are going to any of Springsteen's upcoming shows let us know. We'd love to hear from you.

Secondly, I have been watching a lot of early 90's WCW ppvs on the network. The pre-Hogan stuff is pretty great with Flair, Sting, The Steiners and Pillman. But man once Hogan and the Dungeon of Doom hits things turn awful. My question though is:  Why Kevin Sullivan?   It seems all the other heels were proven WCW draws (Flair, Vader, Luger) or guys Hogan brought in to work with (Earthquake, Kamala, Beefcake).  Sullivan was never a WCW main eventer, and as far as I know wasn't one of Hogan's guys. He doesn't have a good look (a short, chubby, balding man from Boston) and isn't very good on the mic, but gets put into a feud with their #1 face that lasted for years!? Also, why did WCW bring in retired foreign wrestlers like Haystacks Calhoun and King Curtis Iaukea to join the dungeon?   Couldn't they find anyone else on their massive roster to take those spots?

God, I hate the Dungeon of Doom.

Thanks again, Scott!

Best,
SteveOB

In the immortal words of Brian Pillman, "I respect you, bookerman".   


Comments

  1. Once the Dungeon dropped the cheesy 80's act, they were actually pretty cool. Was watching some of their feud with the Horsemen in 96 and it was pretty intense.

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  2. Giant Haystacks. Different person to Calhoun

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  3. How could they talk about the Dungeon of Doom and not talk about the Yeti?

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  4. I agree with the OP's points about Sullivan except for one - he was VERY good on the mic. Some of his stuff in the feud with Jimmy Garvin was pretty awesome.

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  5. The Ghost of Faffner HallMarch 29, 2014 at 1:47 PM

    I was about to post the same thing--Caloun was long dead by this point.

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  6. I didn't know Sullivan was booking at that point. Makes sense now.

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  7. Haven't seen that. I was just going based on his WCW work.

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  8. On the whole, this feud was 100% wrestlecrap. But at least it gave Ed Leslie his 18th and 19th ring names.

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  9. Between WCW and WWE was there a worse main event program than Hogan and The Dungeon, that headlined PPV's? Diesel/Mable was pretty bad but that only lasted a month or 2, Hogan and The Dungeon went on for months between the summer of 95 to the spring of 96.

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  10. Just before Hogan came in... WCW was probably more talent rich than they had ever been. '91-'93 is my favorite era for them. But that doesn't always translate into large crowds, ratings, and buys.

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  11. They had to work the formula. Hogan had no idea of the lifespan he'd eventually receive and had to milk the classic formula for all it was worth. That stuff eventually led to the whole Blood Runs Cold gimmick... with Bischoff blatantly ripping off Mortal Kombat stuff in order to sell merch. I firmly believe Glacier was supposed to be the eventual Hogan replacement in WCW. They just spent way too much time and money on the whole thing.

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  12. ... and a Starrcade main event

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  13. Right. Sorry, wasn't paying attention when I wrote the question.

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  14. I'm not going to give Hogan a pass on this one, this was way more than the old Hogan formula, this was cartoon-ishly bad, god awful skits, and a monster truck battle on top of the arena? That sounds like an idea i would have had in my action figure league around that time when i was 10.

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  15. Yeh-tay, please. It's French.

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  16. I did not envy Kevin Sullivan's job at that time. 'Hey, book all of Hogan's old buddies in a bad 80s WWF ripoff!' Sullivan was booking when the NWO came around, so he did know what he was doing.

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  17. It's Hogan without McMahon to reel him in... plus it's Hogan with tons of doubt in the back of his mind about his own drawing power. Gotta load the guy up with gimmicks to make it seem fresh.

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  18. Post Uncensored 1996 they were fine. Sullivan and Benoit was great.

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  19. Stranger in the AlpsMarch 29, 2014 at 3:30 PM

    Clash of the Champions XXXII in '96, when Pillman freaks Bobby Heenan out by grabbing him, and then Heenan yells out "What the FUCK are you doin'?" on live TV.

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  20. I've heard about him.Nascar isn't a thing,F1 was only popular nationwide with Ayrton Senna.

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  21. Rehab.

    I seriously am not sure

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  22. HowmuchdoesthisguyweighMarch 29, 2014 at 3:30 PM

    I was a huge mark for taz, having caught ecw in 98 and 99 on the Spanish Channel at about 1 am on Saturdays. He never stood a chance and wwf signed the radicals right after he debuted. Injuries took a toll on him also.

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  23. Russo was a huge fan of his and pushed to sign him. Once he was gone by the time taz debuted Vince and the other detractors did nothing with him.

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  24. Good question. They did a handful of house shows there in 1995 and then didn't go back I don't think. WCW usually went there once or twice a year. I doubt it was the rent -- the WWF and WCW went to the Fleet Center (TD Garden now) and that was reportedly one of the most expensive building to have shows at.

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  25. Hall was probably not brought in because of his drug/alcohol issues as he was fired by WCW in October 2000 (WCW actually fired Bret Hart that same month, too), but when that happened, he just worked a couple shows for ECW and didn't show up in WWE until over a year later for the NWO angle.
    Hogan is another weird one as he was free from WCW by the summer when the Invasion angle really started and maybe even earlier than that. My guess is that WWE was just waiting for Nash, who publicly said he was going to wait out his WCW contract that didn't expire until the end of 2001. Booker T and DDP agreed to let AOL/TW but out their contracts early so they could go WWE sooner, but Nash and Goldberg refused, opting to take all the money due to them.

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  26. Test not getting over I think had more to do with Test and less with the WWE. I don't know, maybe if they made Test the champion at Survivor Series instead of the Big Show. But when Vince would up being the one to take it to HHH at the ppv, Test was left out in the card and basically stuck in the mid-card for life, no matter what they did with him. And they made the right call using Vince in that slot, since Test just wasn't over enough to be headlining ppvs.


    He probably would have been one to benefit from a seperate WCW in 2001. He coudl have mised with the top of that card (Dallas Page, Booker T, probably Big Show too) and it would have been just fine.

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  27. The POP Vince McMahon got when he came out of that limo was an Austin Level POP, it was insane.

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  28. January 4th 1999. Foley wins the title, only show where all six members of DX was together and the mother of all POPS when he showed up to interfere in that title match.

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  29. The RAW in MSG where we got the debut of Cactus Jack as he destroyed Triple H, Austin stuns McMahon for the first time, and Undertaker closes the show by chokeslamming both Bret & Shawn for being a couple petulant children... tough to top.

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  30. I never saw a fit for him either. The whole Path of Rage was great in ECW but it wasn't ever going to translate to the big leagues.

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  31. You don't like him because of backstage tactics? Ain't really much of a valid reason to hate the man. Taker has stolen the show for the past 5 Wrestlemanias.

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  32. That was a great fucking show. Although i felt it was a bit of a let down after the Cactus match and the Stunner. The rest of the show felt like a letdown after that.

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  33. I just really love the finish. I loved Undertaker in the role as kind of "the conscience" of wrestling. Bret was my favorite, and I wanted him to tear Shawn apart at every instance... but Undertaker coming out and just ENDING it all right there with one move as just to say, "Would you two kids just fucking STOP already!?" was amazing.

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  34. JBL became too much of a mouthpiece for Vince.

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  35. That was before the Dungeon of Doom, when just being "the former Brutus Beefcake, but we cant call him that" was supposed to be enough to make the Main Event "must see."

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  36. Rank the Austin themes:

    "Hell Frozen Over/I Won't Do What You Tell Me" (basically the same thing)
    "Glass Shatters" (The Disturbed One)
    "Venomous" (What was used during the Invasion)

    I'd go in that order actually. First two were both awesome though.

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  37. I literally don't remember anything after the ending. Shawn annoucned the winner of HitC would get a WWE title match, and Bret Hart wrestled Goldust for some reason?

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  38. Disturbed
    Venomous
    Dangerous Alliance Theme
    Classic Stone Cold
    ... the rest.

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  39. Test not Vince should've been the one facing HHH at Armageddon 1999. That was where the mistake was. Test becoming World Champ at Survivor Series really didn't make much sense. Test fighting HHH after he sneakily married his woman made far more sense.

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  40. I just read through the cards they ran at the United Center in 1995... they were shit and the attendance was pretty shitty, too.

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  41. I'll never mark out harder than I did when X-Pac returned to Raw to form DX with HHH and the Outlaws. On the same show The Rock turned on Faarooq and all the NOD kicked the shit out of him. Peak times.

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  42. As far as magnitude goes, Goldberg winning the title on nitro has to be the biggest moment ever on free tv. MAYBE the tyson/Austin confrontation is a close 2nd?

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  43. And Haystacks dead not that much long after.

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  44. That was a great Raw, too. Austin stuns McMahon and gets arrested to kick off a three year feud, X-Pac returns, Dan Severn debuts, Rock kicks Faarooq out of the Nation, DX reforms with the Outlaws and the seeds are planted for Foley's heel turn... that was probably the first big post-Mania Raw.


    And two weeks later, they won the ratings for first time in about two years.

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  45. That's a good question. I've always thought of the Dungeon of Doom era as really lame and stupid but never stopped to wonder why exactly they went with such a lame and stupid angle.


    Rick Steiner was always my "why is this guy continually pushed" guy. Scott turning on him and beating the shit out of him was about the last thing anyone wanted to see Rick Steiner involved in.

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  46. Raven should and could have had the drugs not handicapped him. Even in WCW he was one of the only non-nWo guys who looked like a legit star.

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  47. Holy shit. If you haven't recently seen the segment where the Rock gives everyone in the nation Rolexs and Farrooq a picture of the Rock, watch it. Rocks at ringside shining his picture and holding it up. Hysterical

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  48. I can be talked into that since it propelled Raw to beat Nitro. Personally, it just doesn't have the same "big match" feel to me as Goldberg/Hogan. Not sure why.

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  49. http://www.wwe.com/videos/the-undertaker-hits-a-double-chokeslam-on-shawn-michaels-and-bret-hart-raw-sept-26058476

    Also, how about that promo before RAW went on the air that day... http://www.wwe.com/videos/a-special-look-at-wwe-inside-madison-square-garden-raw-september-22-1997-26022754

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  50. Babyface Sullivan from 1980 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e0__64nQSgk

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  51. 40,000 people in the Georgia Dome have something to do with that. It was a crazy spectacle, and one of the few times I ever felt that I HAD to watch WCW to see this match.

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  52. I wish the annoying orange was a thing when Tazz was around. That'd be an easy dot to connect.


    I did like him Thug Life Tazz for a while there. I assumed he'd send Lawler closer to death than a heart attack on Raw at Summerslam and once he didn't I just kinda lost interested in him. I think he was teaming with Raven soon afterwards and that was that.

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  53. Any relation to Mr Loonay from Family Matters?

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  54. Where am i? There's no Hulkamaniacs here!


    Aside from that skit and the Yeh-Tay it's my vote for worst angle of all-time due to it's main event stature and longevity.

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  55. Yeah, ** 1/2 means that to me too -- decent but nothing special.


    I guess it all depends on the person -- I don't really consider anything until the *** mark worth my time. I'll just skip right past it unless I'm either trying to watch the whole show or I have some kind of special interest. So to me -- whether it's 1/4 *, ** 1/2, or * 32/33, it's all kinda the same to me.

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  56. Were they all house shows? The couple I looked at had pretty good numbers for shows in that period. I'm sure they could have done big money there when things picked up -- it's very curious! WCW did like three or four sell-outs there IIRC -- the first of which was totally unheard of for them.

    From the Observer regarding that January 1997 show:

    World Championship Wrestling set the company all-time attendance record drawing a sellout of just over 17,000 fans paying $189,206 to the United Center for the 1/20 Monday Night tapings in Chicago. In addition, the company's all-time single event merchandise record was devastated with nearly $107,000.

    The gate was the fourth largest in company history, trailing the
    record mark of $224,660 set for last year's Halloween Havoc in Las Vegas, which also set the merchandise record with $69,000.

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  57. Without a doubt. Her during that Diva's Golden Thong Award contest thing they did...GOOD NIGHT

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  58. I was actually into this storyline because Hogan had legit "Honky Tonk Man heat" with me. Where if I had PPV access, I would have actually paid to watch him lose. I wanted to see Hulkamania die!!

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  59. Watched Biggest Blunders a few days ago. Pretty good stuff. I watched the backstabs countdown as well, pretty fun as well

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  60. I'd say on the field of comedy, Farva wins.

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  61. Pretty Nash's mention of wrestlers H-Bombing was directed at Crush or somebody like that. It was "the Shining incident", cause blood was all over the walls and the wrestlers had to leave through service doors cause they didn't want to be seen by the press.


    Pretty sure it wasn't HBK.

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  62. I'll take Goldberg/Hogan

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  63. So what you're saying is that Jarrett is a petulant child?

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  64. I like both, but Tazz and Cole somehow developed this big brother/little brother vibe that I don't think I'll ever see again.

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  65. Watching this year's Elimination Chamber... what's so great about AJ is she knows she's head and shoulders about everyone else in the roster. She must have learned how to carry herself from CM Punk.

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  66. Roku Smoku. Can you listen to your iTunes through it?

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  67. The Austin/Hart RAW where Austin beats up Bret in the ambulance. That whole show. The Austin/Hart segments, Goldust and Marlena attacking HHH and Chyna from ringside. Prior to that segment, HHH was fighting Taker and Mankind came from the back with a blowtorch as retribution for what happened to Paul the night before. He and Taker ended up fighting to the back. Wild episode.

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  68. Rock was having his best run of matches in 2000 when Undertaker returned with nothing to offer. In fact, Taker returned at the end of one of Rock's all-time best performances (that Judgment Day IronMan match with HHH). Even without the workrate, Rock was the most over guy on the roster and easily the most entertaining. Taker brought none of that to the table and continued to occupy a top spot based only on who he was.


    It is worth mentioning that I'm a big fan of Taker from what I have seen of the "real" guy. Seems like a pretty humble dude and a good lockeroom mentor. I'm just commenting on his character and placement on the roster.

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  69. "HEADFIRST INTO THE COMMODE!!!"


    Sorry. Carry on.

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  70. Yeah, that's a great point. It speaks to just how uninspired Taker's in-ring work was at that point too. DDP is one of those methodical, pre-plan types who will have a decent match with just about anyone (Goldberg included) if only because of the choreography involved. Yet Taker, an adaptable worker after about 2006, had a throwaway brawl with him

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  71. My Way contributed to one of the best video packages in wrestling history. It also wasn't a bad song. I absolutely hated Limp Bizkit though.

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  72. You've got the power to do it Farva.

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  73. If I can say nothing else for Undertaker, I will say that his entrance has always been awesome. When they took that away in favor of Limp Bizkit, there was literally nothing to like about him in 2000-2002.

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  74. If only they got Sting and Goldberg.....

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  75. There was a Taker/Big Show match on PPV a few years ago that was good. Don't think it was Survivor Series. Maybe, the month before?

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  76. Ahem, to make WCW look weak in the presence of the almighty and powerful WWF.

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  77. I think you're absolutely right. I'm sure Vince would always have a spot for him until he chose to walk away on his own, but Taker would not have had the huge incentive to come back once a year without that Streak. He would have no drawing power, no real leverage, and very little reason to push his body to the limit even once a year without that high-stature match closing out Wrestlemanias every year

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  78. "I'm on it brother,"

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  79. Yeah I agree. They seem to think that just putting him out there to sign a contract makes him a big deal. They forget that people weren't digging the HBK matches just because it was Taker's Streak. Old man in trenchcoat does not automatically = $.

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  80. Old man in trenchcoat usually = jail time for indecent exposure.

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  81. I agree that Foley getting the title was a great moment -- but it did not propel Raw to beat Nitro -- that whole thing is a myth/total misunderstanding of ratings.

    There was nothing remarkable about the ratings that night -- Raw won every single quarter hour except for the overrun -- which is actually where both the Hogan/Goldberg/NWO angle and Foley's win took place, so you could even make the argument that the ending to that Nitro drew better ratings than the Foley title win anyway.

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  82. You are right. Taker could only really have great matches with the right workers. HBK or Bret could have passable matches with Sid, Yokozuna, et al. To say that Taker could have great matches with him (or Bret, Angle, Edge) is not so much an endorsement of Taker as it is his compatability with some truly exceptional workers.

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  83. Another valid point. :)

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  84. What about the post WM 29 Raw?

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  85. I hated Goldberg vs Hogan when it happened. I'm a big Hogan fan.

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  86. MaffewOfBotchamaniaMarch 29, 2014 at 5:01 PM

    No Mercy 2008, if I recall.

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  87. The Raw in 08 after Night of Champions when anarchy ruled and no GM was in place, felt more unpredictable than usual for me.
    A favorite moment of mine was the Nexus debut.

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  88. Wish they would've booked Taz vs Austin, but they would've had to brought Taz in in late 1998 or early 1999.

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  89. Thanks. Also, Taker/Rey from RR '10 was a fun big man/little man match cut from a Vader/Sting type mold.

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  90. I think I love every scene. It's Scarface on Wall St.

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  91. I lasted until around the end of 2002 and didn't get back into it full-time until a few years ago.

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  92. Pretty sure it was, because it was followed up with someone trying to kick HBK's ass.

    And he would totally say that if he didn't see it as rape.

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  93. A couple of things to take into account for why Vince never bought out those inflated Time Warner contracts for the big names is the start-up of the XFL which occurred in this time frame plus the money pit that was the WWF New York restaurant in Times Square.


    Those 2 disasters cost the company a fortune and Vince may been have been a bit liquid asset poor at the time despite Time Warner selling him the company for peanuts.


    As it stood, they probably felt the WWF vs WCW name alone would be enough to last the year before they start bringing back the big names like Ric Flair & the Nwo.

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  94. That 08 raw was awesome.

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  95. Not sure if these have been mentioned, but my picks are:

    The raw in may 1993 with the kid beating razor and Jannetty beating hbk.

    The first Raw Roulette with that tlc match that Kane won.

    The raw leading into Wrestlemania 21 with Jake the Snake returning and the rockers reunion.

    The night after wrestlemania xiv is talked about below, but what a great show.

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  96. I loved the show where Vince McMahon says "What A Maneuver!" during commentary..

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  97. I asked first, but just off the top of my head he pretty much called the entire HOF-class this year with the exception of Colon and Razor. If you actually read his newsletter, he's probably right 90% of the time and wrong 10%.

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  98. To be fair, Vince was stuck in that formula in 1995 too, still looking to get mileage out of the Hogan formula and giving everyone the hard sell with Nash and the "WWF running on Diesel Power (TM)"

    Actually, the whole Diesel squashing Backlund on an MSG house show thing was pretty obviously aping the Iron Shiek/Hogan deal too.

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  99. The WM 13 go-home where Bret Hart flips his shit after losing the cage match against Sid. My jaw didn't return to above-neck level until 20 minutes into La Femme Nikita.

    Pretty sure Raw has been on a 7 second delay ever since.

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  100. I'm honestly surprised he didn't try Diesel in some red, white, & blue.

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  101. Maybe it was a stock thing? Good point though. The Debra situation blew up much later.

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  102. I love Springsteen. Neat blog you got there, Steve.

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  103. I actually like Hell Frozen Over better than I Won't Do What You Tell Me. Grittier guitar, heavier drums, and sounds cooler when played on the arena speakers.

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  104. Exactly. Second cousin on his mother's side, lol.

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  105. The RAW where Bret and Sid keep trying to wrestle only for Austin to find a way to interfere and have the match be thrown out. It's basically the entire show, which was kind of an awesome idea. I'll say Russo didn't have the occasional moment of clarity.

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  106. I Survived '95

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  107. Bobby having to work "butcher" into the Brutus heel turn segment at Havoc approximately 58 times...that was not fun to listen to.

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  108. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMarch 29, 2014 at 6:05 PM

    Oh yeah, someone mentioned the Nexus riot and I have to go with that. Up there with the Pipe Bomb in terms of recent moments that felt like true "haven't seen something like that in ages" game-changing moments. Of course, they squirreled away the potential on both, but both moments were the stuff that kept up till 2am after RAW discussing it endlessly with folks here and on the GameFaqs PWB.

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  109. Hold that 10 for Johnny B. BadMarch 29, 2014 at 6:08 PM

    Since so many of the great older ones have been covered, I'm going to mention some new ones: the go home show to WM 27 was epic. Smarkageddon - 1 & 2 (first Raw post WM 28 & 29) were both incredibly memorable shows. The Punk vs. Cena episode of Raw from last year was fantastic. The Raw 2 weeks out from WM 26 was a blast of a show. Also, if no one has mentioned it, the Smackdown with the Angle-Brock ironman match is classic.

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  110. Up until Adamle came in, that period was a nice change of pace.

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  111. I remember how everyone here was in awe during the Nexus riot.

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  112. That's how I feel about most wrestlers actually. The only way I consider someone to be a great wrestler is when they can have a good-great match with just about EVERYONE they face. And on the opposite end I consider someone a bad wrestler if they are not even carryable to a good match.

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  113. Oh, WWF New York. I both ate and saw a concert there (on two separate occasions, once later when it was rebranded "the World"), and that place was never not a complete shitshow. I always wanted to watch a PPV live there, but I don't think I would've cared much about meeting Tiger Ali Singh.

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  114. Wow, I'd never heard that before either... now I love that moment even more.

    To be totally fair though, Jericho could make the Doink gimmick work.

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  115. WCW actually seemed to understand the character. I think WWF thought he was supposed to be an actual fucking Raven or something. They put bird noises in his music!

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  116. Raw: 'Where too Stephanie'
    The nexus episode
    Pipe bomb
    Jericho putting shawns head through the jericotron after shawn admits lying to him.
    The one hour Shawn/cena match
    The one where ecw turns up to join the WWF v wcw war

    And my all time fav, the one where austin cripples Bret, attacks him in the ambulance, and Brian pillman comes back at the end.

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  117. Considering how quickly & well (at the beginning anyway) he adapted to the announcing gig, and the fact that he's still at it, I think it's safe to say this was the last time Jerry Lawler did anything worthwhile, be it in the ring or in the booth.

    Makes me think of the possibility of them phasing Jake the Snake out into an announcer/agent gig after that feud, or a way to make Raven Johnny Polo again...

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  118. I always read the weird path of Raven's WWF stuff to be "S&M homeless meth-head."

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  119. X-Pac Heat was originally Bossman Heat, wasn't it? Or am I misremembering & speaking ill of the dead?

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  120. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryMarch 29, 2014 at 6:51 PM

    I'm just saying, most of his info is things we can figure out on our own, and he has a habit of just throwing tons shit at the wall and then taking credit for the one thing that eventually sticks. Like the old expression says, even a broken clock is right twice a day. He does have some kind of inside info though, IIRC he had Sammartino going into the HOF a month before it happened.


    Colon is getting in too? He's the guy from PR that's not a total piece of shit, right? Carlito's dad? I know the other guy down there, Queinoez or something, is/was a total scumbag.

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  121. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryMarch 29, 2014 at 7:03 PM

    No he hasn't, he had 2 really good matches with HBK, a guy he has always worked well with, a **** with a guy that could get at least *** out of me in Punk, and one decent and one terrible match with HHH (though as I said I said many times before and even in this thread, Taker was good in that match, it was the other 2 guys in the ring that made it suck). And even if I agreed with you, the fact that he's having the best match on the biggest show of the year speaks more towards WWE's shitty booking than it does about Taker's talents. But like I said below, I hate him, but I still respect him. Kind of like the Yankees.


    Aren't you CAPS LOCK MAN? If so, I like you better without the gimmick.

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  122. Holy shit that's a good user name

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  123. You're right. "Propel" was the wrong word.

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  124. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryMarch 29, 2014 at 7:12 PM

    He's a total douche, but a really talented driver, as I said in another comment he's like the Yankees, I hate him but I still have respect. And I had Brazil mixed up with Columbia, where racing is huge. And for some reason I thought Marcos Ambrose is from Brazil when I typed that. He's from Australia, and came up through the V8 Supercars series, which is the best racing on the planet. Too bad I can only watch it online.


    Senna was the man, I gotta look and see if the movie about him is on Netfilx. Fun fact: he designed the Honda/Acura NSX.

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  125. RKO out of the chokeslam. I think a good majority of fans watching in LA and on PPV thought that could've been it.

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  126. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryMarch 29, 2014 at 7:15 PM

    To me, if you even have to think about whether it's a ***** match, then it's a ***** match. Same thing with negative stars, if it's even in consideration then the match was dogshit, so go ahead and bury it.

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  127. I think they had plans for Tazz: He had a good build with vignettes, excellent theme tune and was the first to defeat Angle. But the match against Angle was a bit sloppy, he was completely overshadowed by the arrival of The Radicalz and then soon became injured - and that was it for him

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  128. "it comes off as unobjective"


    because it is, reveiwing wrestling matches is INHERENTLY unobjective

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  129. LOVE that episode plus Owen And Bulldog yelling at the medics to WATCH THE KNEE is just great stuff

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  130. I must have watched that on a recorded off TV VHS 1000 times

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  131. the WTF??? look on Faarooq's face is priceless

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  132. 3:16 on the Rock's beeper

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  133. No, I'm pretty sure Meltzer's said the original plan was to turn Raw into Monday Nitro (with Smackdown becoming the WWF's flagship show).

    But Spike or USA (whoever had the rights for RAW at that point) balked at that idea, so the backup plan was a Saturday night WCW show which also never panned out.

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  134. Also the Halifax RAW with the 6 man flag match and where Shawn gives one of his greatest Canada trolling coked out in ring promos of all time

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  135. RAW from June 1997 to Survivor Series 1998 is probably the greatest extended run of TV for any single company

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  136. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMarch 29, 2014 at 7:49 PM

    Yeah, I was at Staples Center that night, EVERYONE thought that was the finish. That's still my favorite RKO reversal.

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  137. I don't get how the ending to that main event was so stupid. The Austin/HHH feud had been definitively blown off, HHH and UT were feuding and would face each other at WM so it would make sense that HHH would cost UT a match, and it could even be interpreted as a subtle tell for the Austin heel turn (and team with HHH) that was to come.

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  138. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMarch 29, 2014 at 7:50 PM

    I do too. I've learned to stop doubting Taker not having a great match at Mania, he's been doing it for about six years now.

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  139. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMarch 29, 2014 at 7:51 PM

    Taker wishes he had a sexual conquest list like Jeter's though. It's like a who's who of 90s-00s hotties

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  140. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMarch 29, 2014 at 7:53 PM

    "threatening to ride dragons from the flames of hell up your ass."


    That's why it's not tiring for me. When you have to hear Alberto Del Rio call everyone a "pero" or Orton dulling on the mic, I think the WWE needs someone who will ride flaming dragons up someone's pooper every now and then.

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  141. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMarch 29, 2014 at 7:55 PM

    I'm pretty sure Senna is on Netflix. Never knew about his NSX connection, that's awesome.

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  142. Yeah it was disgusting how bad they fucked it up. Turned me off for awhile too.

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  143. Night after Final Four. Love that episode. It is also the one where Heyman called in and argued with Lawler over the phone, followed by the ECW at the Manhattan Center Raw the next week.

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  144. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMarch 29, 2014 at 7:57 PM

    That intro will never cease to be funny to me. Ever.


    IT'S TAZZ!!!!

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  145. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMarch 29, 2014 at 7:58 PM

    I'm with joedust, your username and avatar has me marking out. Love that show.

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  146. The pop when Cactus comes on the TitanTron is glorious

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  147. That ends with Pillman jumping Austin in his return as a competitor, right?

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  148. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryMarch 29, 2014 at 8:01 PM

    Yeah, he designed the chassis, and at least had a hand in the body. Too bad he wasn't consulted on the engine though, 90k for a car that has only 276bhp is a bit excessive. Then again, I've driven one, and they are fucking AWESOME.

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  149. I hated Jeff Jarrett. Couldn't stand him. My pre disqus Scott's blog name was JJJ to combine my snark for both guys. I'll never forgot seeing Jeff Jarrett on sportscenter when pacman Jones was in TNA and almost dying from laughing. I thought he was a pathetic joke.

    But I have to say looking back on his early\mid 90's wwf run its actually pretty good as you watch it today.

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  150. I just want to point out that I really don't understand why Taker dresses like Super Shredde now

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  151. Nope, you're right - it was "Bossman Heat" up until 2000 or so.

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  152. How freaked out would you be to find out your dad was really a huge pro wrestling fan...and he posts at the BoD as OfficerFarva

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  153. You still haven't given en example of the 90% of the time you claim he's wrong. Is it because you don't have any?

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  154. I always thought the DoD storyline was to take heat away from Flair and relegate him to midcarder, which it kind of did.

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  155. It certainly wasn't because it was "best for business."

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  156. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryMarch 29, 2014 at 8:17 PM

    OK, I was a little buzzed up and talking shit, you got me, let's move on.

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  157. The spiked cloak is necessary now to maintain his aura of fear and intimidation. It is designed to distract you from his Widows peak hair and lack of muscle definition.

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  158. Wcw didn't do much right but they nailed it with raven. They even showed actual growth in the character with the hilarious rich kid videos with him and Kanyon.

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  159. Yeah they had white meat baby face Diesel Hulking up which was sooooo different than what actually got him over. People wanted bad ass squash chumps Diesel.

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  160. His mic work in Florida was pretty great. Quasi-Satanic (never actually said Satanic) cult leader. Very creepy.

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  161. I remember reading back when Tazz debuted that either angle or someone else got knocked silly by one of his suplex, and that the long and short was he was told to tone down his style with all the suplexes not long after he debuted. Obviously if you take Tazz suplexes away there is not much left.

    Tazz vs. Saturn was kind of a dream match for me because of their similar styles.

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  162. Agree. He was just not good enough in the ring or mic for major leagues and too short. I hate to say that because I love Bret, Shawn, Eddie, etc but it's really hard to have a Goldberg type killing machine gimmick when you're the size of a 7th grader.

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  163. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 29, 2014 at 9:00 PM

    Not enough upvotes in the world for this one.

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  164. A lot of people didn't like the story behind the last HHH match but at least it had one. The CM Punk match and this Brock one have been built as "it's WM time and UT needs a match" so they just throw someone out there.

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  165. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMarch 29, 2014 at 9:17 PM

    Never driven one, but I've always liked the design. I'll usually have a NSX in my garage in every racing game it's included in.

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  166. I have to dig through my VHS tapes to see if I still have it, but there was a random Raw from 1995 where Vince and Bastion Booger were doing commentary and I swear they spent more time knocking Ted Turner than paying attention to the show. My wife has to work tomorrow so I think I know what I am doing all day tomorrow

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  167. Harlan Leverage IIIMarch 29, 2014 at 9:27 PM

    Beat me if you can. Blah blah blah, yackety schmackety!

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  168. And the Vince-Bret pull apart brawl. Great stuff in Halifax

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  169. Wasn't that also the debut of "Voodoo Child" for Hogan? It felt like a big-time show.

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  170. Harlan Leverage IIIMarch 29, 2014 at 9:33 PM

    I'd never seen past the middle of season 2, so I started binge-watching last week and I'm completely hooked. So it seemed a natural fit when I decided to change up my screen name (it used to be Jean Claude van Overbite, and before that nppyinzer).

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  171. Pretty sure Nash views date rape as rape, cause he's not evil. People wanted to beat Shawn's ass for plenty of reasons, I don't think rape was one of them.


    And why would HBK give drugs to OTHER people? I heard he and Pac got fucked up on GHB a lot.

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  172. Don't know if this one was mentioned down thread but the Raw from Feb 2000 with the Radicalz heel turn and the big 10 man tag has to be my favorite. Then Kane returns at the end and kills everything moving.

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  173. My hood!

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  174. "When you go into a civil war, you don't go in screaming and hollering off the wall like Kevin Sullivan. You go in with a clear, calm, cool, and collected head."

    -Arn Anderson.

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  175. IIRC, the Nexus episode was a real stinker up until Wade Barrett came out.

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  176. Pretty much. A lot of the top guys had contracts with Time Warner to wrestle for their wrestling company. That happened to be WCW, but their contracts weren't with WCW. So when WCW was sold they were still under contract, ready willing and able to wrestle for Time Warner's wrestling company, but they didn't have a wrestling company, so they were paid to sit home. Time Warner offered something like 2/3 buyouts but I think only DDP took it. They just sat home until their contracts expired then joined WWE.


    There was really no way to bring the big names in at the time of the Invasion. They were being paid their full contract to sit home and do nothing, who's going to turn that down? It also would likely have cost Vince a lot to make it worth their while to accept a 2/3 buyout and give up the sweet getting paid to do nothing deal. If you're Goldberg, you're going to be getting paid to sit home for two more years. Why give that up?

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  177. I doubt Goldberg was an option. He was set to be paid in full to sit home for the next 2 years. When his Time Warner contract ran up it still took The Rock pushing to convince him to go to WWE so I don't think there's any chance he's giving up 2 years of being paid to do nothing to join WWE.

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  178. Bringing in the big WCW names for the Invasion likely wasn't an option - they were older guys who were making big money to sit at home. Why would they give that deal up? They all knew they'd have a job with Vince when their contracts ran out anyway, so they either take a six month to 2 year vacation while being paid in full before joining the WWF or they take 2/3 of the money owed to them and go back on the road.

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  179. Holy crap how did I forget that? Pretty sure Shawn was supposed to be in the flag match originally right?

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  180. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANMarch 29, 2014 at 11:13 PM

    The only opportunity they had to salvage him in the Alliance but by then he couldn't go anyway. Wrong guy at the wrong time. I think they could have made him an upper midcard type guy, but you have Benoit come in right after? Forget about it.

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  181. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANMarch 29, 2014 at 11:19 PM

    I don't get it either. Go watch some Ministry shit (or the Jericho interruption promo, which apparently wasn't suppose to be that bad intentionally, to set up Jericho) and tell me how bad Bikertaker was. It's just something people like to shit on. Although I'll admit I hated the deadman character and it had worn out its welcome with me by then. Embalming people alive? Uh huh.

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  182. It's in a really bad neighborhood and the UFC comes there a lot and does poor box office. Summerslam was actually the first show in the building before the Bulls debuted there in the fall and the local press shat all over wrestling opening the building. Plus the Rosemont has a richer wrestling history.

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  183. Yeah and he never actually wrestled on the show.

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  184. Since he was already getting paid to sit at home, I'd imagine Goldberg's price tag was far above what the WWF was willing to pay. But considering that this was a historic angle the likes of which we'll never see again, they should have paid it and then some.

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  185. It's a testament to the brain trust at WCW that they not only killed their company, but their guaranteed contracts for guys like Hogan, Nash, Sting, Goldberg, Flair, Bischoff, etc. etc. etc. basically poisoned the eventual purchase for the poor suckers that bought it.


    Yes, WWE made out just fine, thanks to the library. But in retrospect, any hopes of a true Invasion were a total pipe dream.

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  186. HHH vs Undertaker both Mania 27 and 28 stole the show. Nothing comes close

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  187. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANMarch 30, 2014 at 1:11 AM

    You give it up if you think you can draw enough money. But then again I have no idea of the structure of these guys' deals. Goldberg probably left money on the table and ended up coming in when business was colder.

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  188. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANMarch 30, 2014 at 1:13 AM

    They had guaranteed money, but any devices to get extra money (working dates, doing PPVs, merch, etc) had dissolved overnight. I think it was pretty dumb on some of these guys parts not to take the 2/3rds and go back to work.

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  189. They should've just thrown so much money on the table that it'd be worth opting out. Goldberg could've paid back a record-setting salary with one PPV. Oh well. DDP was the only one who was so excited he opted out of his deal. You saw how they thanked him...

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  190. The DDP thing still baffles me to this day. Of all the top WCW stars they could have used for a stalker angle, they picked the guy who everyone knew had a smokin' hot wife.

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  191. Keller comes off as a huge douchebag, and he spends more time plugging "VIP content" (even on VIP-exclusive shows) than reporting actual news. Bruce Mitchell is the only somewhat tolerable and semi-credible writer at the Torch.

    Meltzer is far better than either of them, and Alvarez is more entertaining on podcasts.

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  192. The only times I'm aware of that Dave's been wrong recently were when he said AJ Lee would be severely punished over the Michelle Beadle incident and would drop the Divas belt imminently, and the time he said CM Punk would probably be returning at RAW in Chicago.

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  193. The entire Bikertaker period was a wash-out, I can't think of a single great match during that period.
    When he returned at WMXX back as The Deadman he started off again putting on dull uninspired matches, but at some point in the end of 2004 something clicked and he got his working boots on and brought in some MMA moves. His match with Angle at NWO05 was one of the most surprising great matches I have seen.

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  194. I also liked the episode with the cage match between Psycho Sid and Bret Hart for the title where Undertaker and Austin kept aiding their enemy so the title could be in play for their match at WM.

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  195. The Raw Roulette was a damn good episode of Raw, just don't talk about what happens after Kane wins the TLC match.

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  196. "Propel? Propel isn't the god damn Word for it!"

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  197. It may have been HHH; I remember hearing something about being Tazz not being able to do the more dangerous suplexes anymore, which may have killed his gimmick a bit.

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  198. The Punk-thing immediately popped into my head, but I don't think he said she would be punished but that he figured she probably would be - which are two different things.

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  199. If you remember correctly, then I'd be tempted to say it was Angle - in their match at RR, Tazz gives him a nasty looking German (or something) on the floor outside. JR and King don't pick up on it, and because it happens by the apron there isn't much of a reaction, but it is fucking disgusting looking.

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