Hey Scott
It's well known that Roman Reigns is being groomed to be the next breakout star. While I agree he has great potential, I don't consider him to be the sure thing every1 else does. He's had 2 high profile singles matches that had ZERO heat and were quite the letdowns. (Punk,Wyatt) His 3 big moves get great reactions but main eventers are expected to perform in the ring for what--20 to 25 minutes. I just don't see him being able to pull that off on his own anytime soon, if at all. Do u see any possibility where he turns out to be the next Ryback?
They can't protect him forever.
Randy Orton and Batista beg to differ.
The worst thing for Roman Reigns is that they are grooming him. That's been a WWE kiss of death for nearly a decade now, since the Batista/Orton/Cena trio got hot.
ReplyDeleteAnytime they've tried to make someone big -- Sheamus, Alberto Del Rio, etc. etc. -- has failed.
They have created a monster with the fans because they want to give them the power (Jeff Hardy, then CM Punk, now Bryan) to make stars. But then they wonder why the fans reject the WWE when they try to force a new superstar.
It's going to really suck for Reigns because the crowds WANT to cheer for him (see the Royal Rumble) but they have to make the crowd do it. If they start pushing him before the crowd wants to see it (i.e., before they're tired of YES-ing), they will reject it and turn on him just like they did with Batista. Or Sheamus.
They have almost figured out wrestling crowds in 2014, but they haven't fully grasped that they can't just anoint someone the next big thing and have it happen.
That's why it's called "Grooming": Eventually he's going to get opportunities to work long matches and work on in-ring psychology, etc., the tools he'll need as a singles star whenever they decide to pull the trigger. Everything the e-mailer said could be easily applied to 2004 Batista (inb4 jokes about gassed 2014 Batista), but eventually he was good enough to hold his own for 20 minutes in main events.
ReplyDeleteAren't three big moves one more than Hogan, Goldberg, Nash and Warrior had? Those guys never made a dime...
ReplyDeleteTrue, but the difference is that the people actually LIKE Reigns work.
ReplyDelete1. He has more than three moves..
ReplyDelete2. He only had two high profile singles matches, and you cant judge him by that yet..
3. He his far more athletic than Ryback, and can definitely go over 25 minutes..
Sure, but the business is different now and the expectations for a top guy (in the fans' eyes) is different now than it was even in 1998.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I think Reigns is athletic enough and by interwebs reports, passionate enough, to successfully become a top guy.
People loved Sheamuses work too, and hes shown he can pull out great matches, like the ladder match with Morrison at TLC 2010, or the 2 out of 3 Falls count match with Bryan at ER 2012, classic they were, and people loved his heel character. What people complains abut is Sheamus's stale face character....
ReplyDeleteMost important thing will be not deviating from his formula. He's a big guy who speaks in a low register, yelling only for his primal scream, and he lets his angry eyes do most of the talking. Trying to make him 'funny' would be more of a death knell than working longer matches alone.
ReplyDeleteThe issue isn't the push, it's the guy they are pushing. Sheamus and Del Rio didn't become WM main eventers because of their own flaws, not the machine behind them.
ReplyDeleteReigns has it, they don't. And even if he doesn't, it won't be because of the push he fails.
I'm not so sure about all that. People were going nuts for Ryback last year and Reigns is at least as good as him. People like monsters and heroes they just need to be booked correctly.
ReplyDeletePeople loved Sheamuses work, and hes shown he can pull out great matches, like the ladder match with Morrison at TLC 2010, or the 2 out of 3 Falls count match with Bryan at ER 2012, classic they were, and people loved his heel character. What people complains abut is Sheamus's stale face character.. They even banned the Celtic Crossface, cause its too violent....
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure the Rumble is the best example. The crowd was only super getting into him by the end, and that was more just wanting someone other than Dave to win by that point.
ReplyDeleteBefore that, Sheamus was stale as a heel also. I think constant turns dont help much either. They have pretty much KILLED The Big Show
ReplyDeleteTotally agree, Sheamus is great in the ring. I can't say enough about how his poor standing with the fans is 100% to his awful character.
ReplyDeleteI think they knew deep down Ryback was just a meathead, not a face of the company
ReplyDeleteI am afraid they will turn him into smilin' sheamus.
ReplyDeleteReigns looks a lot smoother than Ryback.
ReplyDeleteNo, I didn't write this. I do think he'll be a big star eventually, but they need to calm down and let it happen organically. The crowd has evolved at least to the point where they can tell when they're being told to like something, and will go against the grain just for the fun of it, something Austin pointed out in his Cena podcast.
ReplyDeleteNo he was not, his heel run was amazing and his early face days were great too. It was beating DBs career and being the John Cena of 2012 (apart from failing to beat Big Show) that made his character stale....
ReplyDeleteI don't feel like he is being shoved down anyone's throat right now. If it weren't known that he was being groomed as the next top guy, I wouldn't think he was getting any bigger of a push than Cesaro right now.
ReplyDeleteI think Sheamus is more over than this board gives him credit for. The smark crowds shit on him, but in most places he gets a pretty big pop and reaction to his matches.
ReplyDeleteCalling it now: They want the next guy to be Reigns, but it's going to end up being Wyatt. You need a catchphrase to catch fire and "He's got the whole world in his hands" is the next big thing.
ReplyDeleteWith Ryback, they were never willing to pull the trigger and have him beat Punk or Cena and see where it went from there, so he immediately looked like a jobber who was just put in a "bad guy of the month" spot and not a legitimate threat. Del Rio was the same way...they didn't put him over Edge at WM, and then had him lose to Christian in the ladder match. By the time they got around to putting him back in the title picture, his heat was gone. The face turn helped but again he was always treated as a guy who was just holding the title until the bigger names got around to winning it back.
ReplyDeleteYou know what will make Reigns a star? Having him beat top guys that the fans want to see lose. Doesn't matter if the match is 12 minutes or 25.
Different strokes and all but I don't know why people don't see it. Let's count the ways...
ReplyDelete1) he's got the "look" Vince covets
2) he's not Kurt Angle but for a big guy, he can go. Remember Hulk Hogan, Goldberg, and Warrior, they weren't exactly mat technicians
3) he's got charisma
4) he's got wwe bloodlines...this might be dumb to us but Vince likes this
And Most importantly...theyve already targeted him as the next top guy. Even if he doesn't get over at first, they'll push him over and over again until he does. It's inevitable
Wyatt pinning Cena at WM would have been huge for him, and honestly wouldn't have hurt Cena at all. They could have transitioned him right into a title match next month to revisit his feud with Bryan.
ReplyDeleteSorry, just realized the WWE Script told me to NEVER SAY FEUD!
He had an excellent match with Big Show for fucks sake
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, on screen it's happening VERY organically. It's only in places like this where people are jumping ahead and anointing him the next John Cena. But on WWE's TV show it's been a perfect pace. Roman's spent over a year and a half as part of a trio, having mostly 6-man and tag team matches and rising up at the same exact rate as his partners. On TV he's basically been pushed just as much as Ambrose and Rollins--- they all get their big spots, they all get equal interview time. Maybe Reigns has had a few more "I'm the leader" moments, but not too much.
ReplyDeleteThe fans have been organically popping for his stuff, the announcers have been talking him up but still in the context of "The Shield is fucking dominant".
Again, we're sort of imagining this crazy over push that hasn't happened. It's been handled really well so far, I'd say.
He's gonna get over. As long as they don't change his persona to goofy Cena/Sheamus bad-comedian bullshit, he's gonna be fine. He's developing a cool, bad-ass persona, The Shield gives him a level of street-cred that "failures" like Sheamus and ADR never had. And the fans already are popping for him.
ReplyDeleteHe's gonna be huge.
They groomed Orton, Batista, Brock, Rock, HBK etc.
ReplyDeleteYoure usinh Sheamus and Del Rio to make your point. The difference is Reigns has better tangible skills than both those guys.
They've done the next important thing: paired him with a veteran. HHH is going to be hands on working with Reigns to make sure he improves in the ring.
ReplyDeleteLet's not forget that he's also paired with Ambrose and (especially) Rollins, who may not be veterans but who are great in the ring.
ReplyDeleteI agree with all these points. I will add that they actually let the fans "have him" instead of just trotting him out and shoving him down our throats. Fans got to decide that this guy is cool.
ReplyDeleteI think he is too small. ;-)
ReplyDeleteSounds funny compared to Daniel Bryan, but when he is in the Ring with guys like Kane, Sheamus, Batista, Orton etc. Reigns doesn't look as big as he acts.
Bryan is small, but he never speard or powerbombs bigger guys, so it doesn't matter.
Fuck this Reigns guy, I'm the "biggest" thing in wrestling.
ReplyDeleteAlberto Del Rio would have made a perfect long term IC Champ. Instead he got thrown into the Edge feud since he had the DiBiase / JBL gimmick that Vince adores.
ReplyDeleteTriple H wins the world title ant some point before WM 31, Reigns wins RR 2015.. HHH vs Reigns the main event for WM 31........
ReplyDeleteThat is exactly why it is working so well.
ReplyDeleteIf you would have told me a year ago people would be ADVOCATING for HHH to be headlining WMs...
ReplyDeleteActually, Reigns is pretty much the optimal size for a babyface. He's a big dude that looks like a legit ass-kicker, but he's not so big that he makes the heels look like a non-threat.
ReplyDeleteLike, Hogan was almost too tall, but they were able to keep finding GIANT heels (Studd, Bundy, Andre, Quake, etc) to throw at him. And someone like Diesel was a terrible face— aside from other reasons— because he made the heels like HBK look sympathetic.
Austin, Rock, Cena, Roman— big dudes, but can be viewed as underdogs against the right opponents.
His "I'll fight ya" to Mark Henry felt like a huge character defining moment when it happened.
ReplyDeleteThey still would now. It is by beating HHH at WM that Cena and Batista became what they became....
ReplyDeleteDing ding ding ding.
ReplyDeleteADR was made to be a pompous secondary champion. IC, US, tag titles--- he always should have had one of those belts over his shoulder and flaunting.
At this point though his act is so tired and boring, I don't even think he makes sense at that level. He really should just be jobbing to the new stars non-stop until whenever his contract runs out.
I don't know. Sheamus and Del Rio both had flashes of having "it." But being misused kind of flushed that down the drain for both. It's not unimaginable they could fuck up Reigns.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about anybody else, but I've been thinking of the World Title as what the IC Title used to be for prestige for a couple years now. If that's the case than I guess that's what Del Rio should have been doing?
ReplyDeleteI remember really liking "Captain America" Sheamus even if it didn't last long.
ReplyDeleteI think they turned him face at the right time, but when he threw his support behind Triple H, I think the staleness started then
ReplyDeleteThat was ten years ago though.
ReplyDeleteScott, randy orton can perform in the ring... its everything else he does that god awful terrible.
ReplyDeleteThree of 'em!
ReplyDeleteCena was going to get there without HHHs stamp of approval.
ReplyDeleteMan I wish they would bring in steen. I would love to see how nuetered his style would get
ReplyDeleteI think there was also a lot of fan backlash against Del Rio due to his booking plans ruining Summer of Punk.
ReplyDeleteDude wyatt is special.
ReplyDeleteBut he will never become wwe champ unless his character is tweaked.
Right now he is in anarchy mode the belt means nothing. He has to become a competitor and that will be the first chink in his armor
Naw... wyatt didnt have to win... if they brow beat the angle during wm in video packages and put over he angle part rather than the work then mission accomplished
ReplyDeleteUmmm excuse me me and corn verified....
ReplyDeleteNash has six moves
The hair flip
...which is why they had him pin Big E clean for no reason whatsoever three weeks ago.
ReplyDeleteHis point was since orton-cena-batista... whoever they chose was shat upon.
ReplyDelete