I reviewed this show last night but today is the 12th Anniversary of the first ever Ring of Honor Champion was crowned. Here is the sixty minute Iron Man Match between Low Ki vs. Christopher Daniels vs. Spanky vs. Doug Williams
I love this match. It's been said before, but for the first couple years ROH was always guaranteed one excellent match, maybe one or two more good to very good, and two plus hours of absolute garbage. Fortunately it's easy to skip the crap because there's no chance of sneaky good matches from guys like the CSC or Nana.
Punk beats Orton for the World title, and Bryan beats HHH for revenge works a lot better just because Bryan's broken neck doesn't mean we get another run of LOLCENAWINS as champion.
Kurt Angle was in 2000 an Olympic Gold Medalist, won every singles title, had the three 3 I's, was drug free (don't laugh), was basically Mr. America... What women wouldn't want him in 2000? (at least from a kayfabe prospective)
Orton over Triple H at WrestleMania 25. Fuck that shit. Orton was hot as you could be and that loss really did him no favors. Beat Hunter, punt that son of a birch and then move to feud with MVP and then Batista until Triple H returns for Vengeance....and loses again.
I've always got a laugh out of Booker's "5-time, 5-time" gimmick. To show up in WWF bragging about winning five world titles in god-awful WCW circa 2000 is like showing up in the Yankees clubhouse and bragging that you've won a couple Little League championships.
I was wondering about that. I haven't run into any Benoit matches yet but I have also not actively looked for one. I've been mostly watching time periods he wasn't around. But from everything I've read he hasn't been cut out.
So it makes the editing of this show even stranger. I thought about the mention of the Foreman vs Moorer fight. But that was an actual event that occurred in the world. Much like say the winner of the 94 Super Bowl or who was president. I don't think people can copyright the mention of an event. It wasn't like they showed a clip.
Besides even if that was it wouldn't it have been just as easy to cut out the sound for a few seconds? Instead of cutting out the entire first 10 minutes of video?
The problem is that by 1989 it didn't make too much sense. Andre had deteriorated (he allegedly had some AWFUL house show matches with Studd in the -***** territory) and Studd really hadn't done much since 1985/1986. He was too old for a comeback and putting over someone like DiBiase would've been better in that match. Hell, even putting over Akeem or the Big Bossman would've at least made sense for title programs with Hogan down the line in 1989.
Amen. Bret and Savage could have had a babyface match similar to Bret/Piper at WM8. They both go in a babyfaces, but Savage reverts to his old heel ways during the match in an attempt to win the title. He loses. And then they shake hands and Savage endorses Bret as champion. Would have done a better buyrate too.
Very true. Even if HBK went over, it didn't do Vader much good to win two falls via shenanigans and then lose clean. Save that for one of those IYH shows post-SummerSlam or something.
I felt the WWF hid all of that very well. I still saw Andre as a near impossible to beat monster. Then there was this other monster that I had just heard of, and he seemed to have a chance to beat the (near) unbeatable Andre.
If you watch it back, you'll notice an eerie hush come over the crowd as Shawn begins to put Bret in the sharpshooter. It's like everybody except Bret knew what was coming.
And then after the match, Kaientai could've reformed and finally carried out "choppy choppy your pee pee"! Then, we would've have to worry about Triple H marrying Steph!
Ha, I've had the same thought myself. I wouldn't be shocked if they did run it by Vince, but I think Vince vetoes it because Owen was jobbing the belt back to Steve Austin at Survivor Series. HBK should've jobbed to the Bulldog there, especially with the Bulldog dedicating the match to his sister that had cancer.
WWE booked themselves into a corner with that one. Why not just have Bulldog vs someone else? That way, you don't job your future world champ, and there's no chance of backstage politics/headaches. Had him beat Vader or something, the crowd would still have loved it.
Possibly, but Andre's character really lost momentum in 1988 after WrestleMania IV. Giving Studd the Rumble win to face Andre is puzzling. Then again, I can't be too harsh because this was before the Rumble was really a big deal.
exactly, and Duggan had one the only other one. Since hogan and Savage had to get eliminated early due to their angle, Studd seemed like a perfectly fine choice.
That whole main event build at the show is eerie. You have the opening spiel by Jim Ross about how this could be Bret's last match, Vince telling Kevin Kelly or Michael Cole backstage that he "didn't know" who the winner would be, and then you have Bret's final walk as a wrestler from the backstage area to the ring. You can literally just feel the tension ooze out of your TV screen as you watch it.
Well, I guess they figured they wanted a big time match and Vader by that point in 1997 had lost a lot of credibility. HBK had been a career rival of the Bulldog and the Bulldog had never beaten him, so I guess the initial motivation was to finally put him over in his home country.
Del Rio's cash-in on Punk has to be up there. I don't think that did anyone any favors. I don't think it gets into "worst ever" category, though. Edge losing at the Rumble to Cena?
At least that would've saved us the abortion of the ECW relaunch, right? Having Heyman come out and say that, though (which I can hear in my head), is hilarious.
I will forever argue in favor of WM 22 being just fine, and Cena vs Edge were just not ready to main event WM against each other. Cena was barely established,and Edge was not AT ALL established. Both guys got a huge WM win against established guys (HHH and Foley), so THEN they were ready to main event SummerSlam.
I think when Matt or Jeff told the WWF what was going on they just told both of them to contact the office directly.
I remember reading about the Stallion's "epic" feud with George South in the PWF back when I got the Apter mags. It was funny finding out that they were both jobbers in the major leagues. What I loved about following the indies in those mags, though, is that you would see a guy like Devon Storm tearing up ECWA and then he'd appear on WCW or WWF TV and get squashed. It added a semblance of order/hierarchy to the wrestling world.
And a friend I was watching with asked at least 5 times "Why is Vince Mcmahon at ringside? This is so weird". I tried to ignore him as best as I could, but... turns out he was right.
Triple H is going to run a sketch in a few weeks of three people (three is the key here, not two like Bryan faced) breaking into his mansion with Steph and he'll Pedigree all of them.
Yeah, I think things worked out for all parties. Sort of sucked for Edge, because ratings did go up after his win, but Triple H gave Cena more of a rub, for better or worse. WM 22 is when the "Cena sucks" phenomenon reached a whole new level as the smark crowd was firmly behind Triple H (talk about bizarro world). Having Jim Ross trying to cover it by saying that Chicago fans were "traditional wrestling fans" was funny.
But it really wasn't ECW in the traditional sense. As a result, I never got into the brand. I knew things were over when the first segment of the new ECW was the Sandman vs. The Zombie.
Yep, for all of the "Turn Cena heel" people, those kinds of crowds always ADD to a Cena match, and it gives it a special feel. Cena is great at reacting to them.
And also, wasn't there something about Nitro's highest ever quarter hour rating being a Kendall Windham vs Dale torborg match, or something like that? Didn't mean they should have main evented Starrcade.
Well, it wasn't too much to imagine when they said Heyman would be booking and such. Shane McMahon had some good ideas for it that was in line with the original product, but was overruled. I knew WWE would want to just make a mockery of it, though, so I only watched up to Batista-Big Show getting shat on by the Hammerstein crowd.
Barrett beating Orton at Survivor Series for the title.
He only had 1 real ppv win over those 6 months (making cena join the nexus). Fine they lost at summerslam. However, barrett never got his big title win. He got screwed by cena for the title at the ppv before. He lost to orton that night and the next night on raw after the nexus kicked orton's butt before the match (then the miz cash-in). Next month, he lost a chair's match to cena. Ever since then, he has looked like a chump except as bad news barrett. Who knows where barrett would be if he actually beat orton that night?
P.S. I did enjoy the miz cash-in that night; but cena could have beaten barrett at tlc or rumble and then miz cash-in if they wanted miz/cena at wrestlemania.
HBK over Cena in the main event of WM 23. I was sick of Cena as champ, it's the main event of WM featuring HBK and HBK hadn't been champ in over four years. HBK should've gone over that night
Agreed. Stings beat Hogan. NWO turns on Hogan for losing. Hogan becomes a babyface and stars as the "Babe Ruth of WCW" for a few more years before retiring.
Oh another one would be CM Punk beats The Undertaker at WM 29 to end the streak. Punk's heel character was essentially a troll and with wwe being on good terms with every living wrestler Taker beat at WM, Punk would've had heel material for life running down all the legends and wrestlers who didn't do what Punk did.
The Flair-Hogan double-turn at Uncensored 99. This was supposed to be Flair finally beating Hogan for the title as a babyface and then WCW cheats us, the fans, out of it by doing a double-turn. Of course, the fans cheered it anyway
No love for Awesome Kong Vs. Gail Kim?!? Wow. You lot are seriously missing out. Fucking hot as shit crowd for it. Hands down the best women's match i've seen. Hard brawling, physical action, well paced, really entertaining.
The Hammerstein show was cool. The July 4th Heyman heel turn was pretty massive, too (drinks being thrown in the ring?!). Dreamer winning the title was another goodun.
It had some pretty awesome moments, but they were not worth dragging ECW out of the grave for.
Overall, I guess it was pretty cool that the originals got a pay cheque, exposure in the mainstream, and thus guaranteed some decent indy bookings for the foreseeable future.
I don't remember Stallion being anything but a jobber. He showed up on the Muthaship periodically but didn't see him do much else in the ring. I always loved indy stuff whether it's wrestling, baseball, streetball or whatever. Just like the change of pace.
Wrestlemania 4 main event, Dibiase Vs Savage. Have Andre move to attack Elizabeth which distracts Savage allowing Dibiase to roll him up. After the match you can have Andre, Virgil & Dibiase beat on Savage until Elizabeth goes for Hogan for the save to still get the megapowers. Except now you have Dibiase as a hell champ, the first heel champ in 4 years. Suddenly there's a lot of faces who can get a quick run on top as challenger, whilst Megapowers fight Virgil/Andre. You can still have the Megapowers Vs MegaBucks match at Summerslam, and at Wrestlemania 5 you have Savage over Andre & Hogan over Dibiase.
Taryn Terrell vs Gail Kim last woman standing was much better than it had any right to be.
The result I would have changed: Hulk Hogan defeats Nick Bockwinkel at Super Sunday. I want to see an alternate universe where wrestling hater Vince McMahon has real competition.
Vince's bodybuilder mentality is hilarious. HHH would definitely work the average guy, but real fighters don't look like HHH. Flabby old Billy Robinson might still have had HHH in the 90s.
Ricky Steamboat beats Honky Tonky Man in June of 1987. He could drop the belt to Savage, Roberts, Butch Reed, hell, even Hercules, anyone but HTM for that miserable record title run.
The ECW fanatic mindset summed up in a nutshell: Chanting "same old shit" at a guy who debuted in 2001 while cheering on the guy who hasn't changed his moveset since 1999.
When Flair came back in late 98 he was the biggest babyface in the company until this stupid heel turn. The fans weren't turning on Goldberg in mass or anything but he was no longer the juggernaut he was in the summer
yeah that's true. It's not going to happen anytime soon though. Can you name someone that hasn't had a title reign in the last 11 years that you could see getting one in the near future? HBK is all I got.
The entire problem with this question is that you can change the matches but you can't change the way the company takes that outcome and rolls with it.
This is especially prevalent in WCW, but WWF had it right before the InVasion. Obviously, you could've changed Austin beating Rock via interference to just Austin beating Rock and stunnering McMahon, but that wouldn't change anything in the end, because they just would've had Hollywood Rock leading the InVasion, or they'd hold off on Austin's true heel turn until down the line. Punk over Trips at NoC 2011 would've been great, but in the end they'd still use Punk as the means to get the belt onto Rock, and you can't change Punk/Rock because Punk/Cena wouldn't have done good business no matter how they used Rock to get Punk over. Savage over Hogan at WM5 wouldn't have mattered because Savage was still mentally fucked and would've been forced to put over Hulk in the long run.
WCW had so many, but again, what would the finish change if people still politic behind the scenes to eventually screw that result up? So Nash doesn't go over Goldberg. Someone still would've, probably Hogan, in rather damaging fashion.
And what did that really accomplish? It set up Mark Henry, which Christian still could've easily done, and it trolled Christian worse than the smarks because that should've been his gold watch for x years of service.
Even if it were, say, Daniel Bryan going over in that spot in a massive pop a cheap ratings upset, it'd still be a bad move because it shows some tremendous disrespect to a guy whos always deserved just a little better than what he got.
Never had a problem with HHH winning at WM 25. I don't know how big the streak was back then but I would have had Flair beat Undertaker at WM 18 to get revenge for Taker beating up Arn and David.
Now what they could have done was have HHH win the Rumble. Orton still could have faced Shane and he and Legacy could have taken Kofi out just like Edge did and have him win the title. HHH gets his revenge on Orton and takes the title from him.
Nexus over Team WWE at Summerslam. After taking the beating from Barrett and Young in the final stage of the match, Cena manages a flurry and tags Bryan. Bryan steps in, and flattens him with a roundhouse kick. All three men then finish him off. The Nexus angle was more or less killed off as any sort of serious threat by Supercena, putting them over in that scenario (or something like it) would have given them monster heel heat and kept it going for much longer.
Yeah, but then what does that change? If you change the result, the outcome can still be exploited. Booker T beats Trips, and then? Loss at Backlash right after? Used as sacrificial lamb to get Goldberg over? Or, heaven forbid, Kevin Nash?
Ive always felt Christian was this generations Tito Santana and he deserved better than a 2 day reign. I was at Extreme Rules that night, crowd popped really big for Christian's win over Del Rio...
WWE doesnt get that guys like Cena and Orton get such a backlash because they are so fucking stale...
Only point I agree with is Goldberg. He needed to lose, and Nash was as good a person as any to beat him (although in a perfect world they would've pulled the trigger on DDP instead at Havoc).
We were discussing this the other day, but the best way to deal with Cena/Rock II would be to turn Rock heel upon his return, have him lose to Punk at Rumble then have Vince or whoever insert him into EC. Then you have a different match dynamic for Cena/Rock, a major boost for Punk AND have a reason for your champ not even appearing on TV (much less even defending it ever).
I know this isn't really what the question was asking, so my apologies, but I wish Money in the Bank was a one-shot deal instead of a regular thing. It worked perfectly the first time with Edge cashing in the way he did on Cena, but I hate new champs being crowned (especially for the first time) by taking advantage of the injured champ. Makes the new champ look like complete shit. If you wanna make a guy, build him up the old way by winning the belt from the champ at Mania.
I think Booker should've gone over too, but lets be realistic. Trips was half right. Not in the racial sense, but people with Booker T's SKILLSET shouldn't be world championship material. T was a charismatic guy who's performances ranged from below average to good on any given night, until he turned it up with King Booker on a depleted roster.
The entire problem with that match was the same thing as the Kane feud: Trips forced his hand and put himself in a scenario where he shouldn't win but does so anyways. Kane didn't deserve a world title belt that much, but he should've had it because of the way Katie Vick screwed everything up for his character.
Yes, he tapped out to the Tazmission. You spend 18 months building up Taz as a legit asshole and then have beat Sabu cleanly? Outragous.
I firmly believe that ECW jumped the shark after Wrestlepalooza 97, which was one month after this show, never again having the life altering multilayered angles that helped put ECW on the map and this match and subsequent double turn is one of the main reasons.
With surprise cash-ins now being a cheap way to put a title on someone, I would be in favor of a rule where the cash-in must come a week in advance, no more surprising a down champion.
CM Punk vs HHH at Night of Champions 2011. Punk loses to Del Rio at SS, then to HHH at NOC, gets pinned in a tag at Vengeance and finally gets beat yet again at Hell in the Cell. I feel if he had beat HHH at NOC the rest of those losses might not have happened. Absolutely no reason for it.
Whatever, Bret going over Hogan and taking on all comers as champ for a year would be better than meaningless feuds with Lawler and such. Hogan was a tiresome cunt at that point, and brought nothing to the table. So what if Bret is a mark for himself? He's arguably the best of all time, for fuck's sake.
They've been talking about Foreman v. Moorer incessantly for the past few shows. They even referenced how Foreman was the same age as Macho Man. So it's not that.
But how do we know Bret couldn't have achieved the level of something greater if he'd gotten a clean win and been elevated in the fans eyes over Hogan?
I'm not saying that Bret would've been the next Hogan, since that's ridiculous. No one even rivals Hogan except Austin. But Bret never really had someone from the older generation to give him much of a rub. He didn't beat Savage, he didn't beat Hogan, didn't beat Andre, etc. The most rub he got was beating Perfect.
I do agree that Bret never had a torch passed to him by anybody credible but I dont think a victory over Hogan makes much of a difference...
Bret didn't have the charisma or star power of any of the guys you mentioned. Mainstream wise, even a flash in the pan like Goldberg is more well known...
I agree with the mainstream, but Bret might've at least had more substance to him by being able to go over some of the old guard. That's why I wish Hogan had jobbed to him, since he was on the way out the door anyway.
Isn't that the same kind of short-sighted, relying on the old guys booking that got them in trouble in the first place?
Don't get me wrong, Flair had some mileage left but there was zero future there long term. If the problem wasn't Flair, then it was certainly their lack of commitment to long term stories -- by early 199 they were just all over the place -- choose something!
Not exactly. I think everyone knew this was Flairs last hurrah. Give him one last send-off and then they could have transitioned to Goldberg or whoever.
Flair was the least of their troubles. I think the latter part of your statement was the root of the problem. They went from Goldberg/Nash to nWo elite to the Horsemen then back to babyface Hogan in about a six minute span. They didn't know what direction they wanted to go in.
I don't know if Booker winning would've pushd him over the edge in terms of popularity, but I've heard that Booker was intended to only get a short reign, and was either going to drop it right back to Hunter, or to Nash or somebody so that they could do the feud with HHH anyway.
Also, back when it actually happened, I remember hearing that Booker was injured and contemplating retirement. Not sure if true or not, but it's a rumour that I haven't heard anyone bring up in years.
Booking the match would have been tricky though. Turning Hogan heel was unthinkable at the time and obviously turning Bret would be counterproductive, but in a face vs face match it's not guaranteed that the crowds would actually side with Bret. Remember, Hogan went onto WM 18 as a heel and we all know how that turned out.
If any match hurt Angle during that period, it was his match with 'Taker at Fully Loaded shortly before. And 'Taker made Angle look like a total joke a few months later at Survivor Series despite losing.
HHH/Angle might've been a missed opportunity, but it didn't actively make Angle look like a joke the way the 'Taker matches did. And Angle beat Trips a few months later at the Rumble, in another unclean victory, but one that didn't make him look like a dork.
This was a really cool question. This is like the age old question (that I believe was popularized by the Dead Zone) about whether or not you would/should take out Hitler if you could go back in time.
But is there a bigger conversation killer than Vince "I love smark meltdowns...and btw, I don't really watch the shows I argue about" Jordan? I don't know exactly what kind of adult male acts like him, waiting on the internet to crap on people in a blog's comments section...but I know it's a sad one.
It was a chore to get to the good responses because of it. That's all I'm saying.
It was important, but only just before he lost it. He was never main eventing ( I think A.J. made it on more DVD Covers and PPV posters than he did) and it would have started out better if he had been built strong. I am a huge Punk fan, but he really ended becoming the longest reigning transitional champ in history.
Quite aside from whether he still gets Jobbed out after the loss to HHH, the mere fact the hottest guy in the company by miles (who had brought WWE mainstream media attention for the first time in forever) gets jobbed out to a partially retired over the hill non-entity beggars belief. It can only have been done to hurt Punk, and cut him off at the knees. There is no other reason.
Yup! Plus half of Savage and Flair's heads for the cage match haha.
It's weird because WCW has used a lot of alternate angles on their other THV tapes (Bash at the Beach 1996 comes to mind) for cutting out various gaffes or mistakes, but I guess for a cage match they probably shoot it from less angles because of how the cage restricts the ability to have a lot of guys in the ring.
Or maybe you shouldn't blade if the company can't show it...
Brian Kendrick looks.......healthy in there.
ReplyDeleteI love this match. It's been said before, but for the first couple years ROH was always guaranteed one excellent match, maybe one or two more good to very good, and two plus hours of absolute garbage. Fortunately it's easy to skip the crap because there's no chance of sneaky good matches from guys like the CSC or Nana.
ReplyDelete"-type maneuver."
ReplyDeletePunk beats Orton for the World title, and Bryan beats HHH for revenge works a lot better just because Bryan's broken neck doesn't mean we get another run of LOLCENAWINS as champion.
ReplyDeleteKurt Angle was in 2000 an Olympic Gold Medalist, won every singles title, had the three 3 I's, was drug free (don't laugh), was basically Mr. America... What women wouldn't want him in 2000? (at least from a kayfabe prospective)
ReplyDeleteThis robs the world of Jay Leno wrestling, though.
ReplyDeleteOrton over Triple H at WrestleMania 25. Fuck that shit. Orton was hot as you could be and that loss really did him no favors. Beat Hunter, punt that son of a birch and then move to feud with MVP and then Batista until Triple H returns for Vengeance....and loses again.
ReplyDeleteI've always got a laugh out of Booker's "5-time, 5-time" gimmick. To show up in WWF bragging about winning five world titles in god-awful WCW circa 2000 is like showing up in the Yankees clubhouse and bragging that you've won a couple Little League championships.
ReplyDeleteIt just occured to me that Orton got the belt off of HHH the following month and he never got it back.
ReplyDeleteVader beats Michaels at Summerslam.
ReplyDeleteHey they made up for it by letting Booker T beat Christian for the IC title at a house show.
ReplyDeleteYep. Triple H's final title reign ended at Backlash in a 6 man tag. Should have happened at WM.
ReplyDeletefinal title reign? don't jinx it.
ReplyDeleteExactly. But in WWF's (Vince's? HHH's?) mind, HHH is the catch and Kurt's just a dork.
ReplyDeleteThey also made fun of HHH for saying no one would by Kurt beating him because "he's too small."
Booker beat Christian for the belt on RAW. Christian won it at a house show when Booker was injured.
ReplyDeleteKurt Angle could wrap Triple H up like a pretzel and shove Hunter's head up his own ass with no resistance.
ReplyDeleteDoing the world a favor.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering about that. I haven't run into any Benoit matches yet but I have also not actively looked for one. I've been mostly watching time periods he wasn't around. But from everything I've read he hasn't been cut out.
ReplyDeleteSo it makes the editing of this show even stranger. I thought about the mention of the Foreman vs Moorer fight. But that was an actual event that occurred in the world. Much like say the winner of the 94 Super Bowl or who was president. I don't think people can copyright the mention of an event. It wasn't like they showed a clip.
Besides even if that was it wouldn't it have been just as easy to cut out the sound for a few seconds? Instead of cutting out the entire first 10 minutes of video?
The problem is that by 1989 it didn't make too much sense. Andre had deteriorated (he allegedly had some AWFUL house show matches with Studd in the -***** territory) and Studd really hadn't done much since 1985/1986. He was too old for a comeback and putting over someone like DiBiase would've been better in that match. Hell, even putting over Akeem or the Big Bossman would've at least made sense for title programs with Hogan down the line in 1989.
ReplyDeleteI was there! :D (for Booker winning)
ReplyDeleteAmen. Bret and Savage could have had a babyface match similar to Bret/Piper at WM8. They both go in a babyfaces, but Savage reverts to his old heel ways during the match in an attempt to win the title. He loses. And then they shake hands and Savage endorses Bret as champion. Would have done a better buyrate too.
ReplyDeleteVery true. Even if HBK went over, it didn't do Vader much good to win two falls via shenanigans and then lose clean. Save that for one of those IYH shows post-SummerSlam or something.
ReplyDeleteI felt the WWF hid all of that very well. I still saw Andre as a near impossible to beat monster. Then there was this other monster that I had just heard of, and he seemed to have a chance to beat the (near) unbeatable Andre.
ReplyDeleteIf you watch it back, you'll notice an eerie hush come over the crowd as Shawn begins to put Bret in the sharpshooter. It's like everybody except Bret knew what was coming.
ReplyDeleteNow I'm feeling full of piss and vinegar and an gonna offer up a different one. Cena beats RVD at ONS. Just to see if that crowd meant business.
ReplyDeleteNot if you're a fan of Mike Bell!
ReplyDeleteI think that was the first time in HBK's career that I actually wanted him to win a WrestleMania match.
ReplyDeleteYou didn't want Shawn to beat Tito Santana? Mark...
ReplyDeleteAnd then after the match, Kaientai could've reformed and finally carried out "choppy choppy your pee pee"! Then, we would've have to worry about Triple H marrying Steph!
ReplyDeleteAnd then Heyman comes out, raises Cena's hand, and says "Now THIS MAN is extreme!"
ReplyDeleteThat would do it, I think.
ReplyDeleteHeyman turning heel on ECW. Perfect.
ReplyDeleteHe did just a few months later when Big Show beat RVD for the ECW title right?
ReplyDeleteYeah. Think it would have been even greater happening with Cena at ONS. Just one time I wanna see if they are serious about rioting.
ReplyDeleteHa, I've had the same thought myself. I wouldn't be shocked if they did run it by Vince, but I think Vince vetoes it because Owen was jobbing the belt back to Steve Austin at Survivor Series. HBK should've jobbed to the Bulldog there, especially with the Bulldog dedicating the match to his sister that had cancer.
ReplyDeleteTrue. Call their bluff. (though the WM 29 "If Cena wins we complain online" definitely meant business!)
ReplyDeleteWWE booked themselves into a corner with that one. Why not just have Bulldog vs someone else? That way, you don't job your future world champ, and there's no chance of backstage politics/headaches. Had him beat Vader or something, the crowd would still have loved it.
ReplyDeletePossibly, but Andre's character really lost momentum in 1988 after WrestleMania IV. Giving Studd the Rumble win to face Andre is puzzling. Then again, I can't be too harsh because this was before the Rumble was really a big deal.
ReplyDelete93 and 94 were just as bad taping in actual hs
ReplyDeleteexactly, and Duggan had one the only other one. Since hogan and Savage had to get eliminated early due to their angle, Studd seemed like a perfectly fine choice.
ReplyDeleteThat whole main event build at the show is eerie. You have the opening spiel by Jim Ross about how this could be Bret's last match, Vince telling Kevin Kelly or Michael Cole backstage that he "didn't know" who the winner would be, and then you have Bret's final walk as a wrestler from the backstage area to the ring. You can literally just feel the tension ooze out of your TV screen as you watch it.
ReplyDeleteWell, I guess they figured they wanted a big time match and Vader by that point in 1997 had lost a lot of credibility. HBK had been a career rival of the Bulldog and the Bulldog had never beaten him, so I guess the initial motivation was to finally put him over in his home country.
ReplyDeleteDel Rio's cash-in on Punk has to be up there. I don't think that did anyone any favors. I don't think it gets into "worst ever" category, though. Edge losing at the Rumble to Cena?
ReplyDeleteAt least that would've saved us the abortion of the ECW relaunch, right? Having Heyman come out and say that, though (which I can hear in my head), is hilarious.
ReplyDeleteHHH beats Bryan at XXX. Time has proven that Bryan wasn't capable of handling the spotlight.
ReplyDeleteI will forever argue in favor of WM 22 being just fine, and Cena vs Edge were just not ready to main event WM against each other. Cena was barely established,and Edge was not AT ALL established. Both guys got a huge WM win against established guys (HHH and Foley), so THEN they were ready to main event SummerSlam.
ReplyDeleteYep, if HBK does agree to job, then it's perfect. BBBUUUTTTTTTTT.... :)
ReplyDeleteI think when Matt or Jeff told the WWF what was going on they just told both of them to contact the office directly.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading about the Stallion's "epic" feud with George South in the PWF back when I got the Apter mags. It was funny finding out that they were both jobbers in the major leagues. What I loved about following the indies in those mags, though, is that you would see a guy like Devon Storm tearing up ECWA and then he'd appear on WCW or WWF TV and get squashed. It added a semblance of order/hierarchy to the wrestling world.
And a friend I was watching with asked at least 5 times "Why is Vince Mcmahon at ringside? This is so weird". I tried to ignore him as best as I could, but... turns out he was right.
ReplyDeleteTriple H is going to run a sketch in a few weeks of three people (three is the key here, not two like Bryan faced) breaking into his mansion with Steph and he'll Pedigree all of them.
ReplyDeleteYeah those walks through backstage for both Shawn and Bret were strange. The whole thing is strange. But I love the actual match.
ReplyDeleteI disagree that no heel should go over at WM. WM25 (HHH vs Orton) really needed the Heel Orton to win.
ReplyDeleteECW ended up being really good. I was sad to see it go
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think things worked out for all parties. Sort of sucked for Edge, because ratings did go up after his win, but Triple H gave Cena more of a rub, for better or worse. WM 22 is when the "Cena sucks" phenomenon reached a whole new level as the smark crowd was firmly behind Triple H (talk about bizarro world). Having Jim Ross trying to cover it by saying that Chicago fans were "traditional wrestling fans" was funny.
ReplyDeleteThat's my pick as well. Stupid for Lex to not get the belt.
ReplyDeleteBut it really wasn't ECW in the traditional sense. As a result, I never got into the brand. I knew things were over when the first segment of the new ECW was the Sandman vs. The Zombie.
ReplyDeleteIt became about giving young stars a chance to shine and make their mark before moving onto a bigger stage. Isn't that what ECW was about?
ReplyDeleteYep, for all of the "Turn Cena heel" people, those kinds of crowds always ADD to a Cena match, and it gives it a special feel. Cena is great at reacting to them.
ReplyDeleteBut don't ratings usually tend to tick upwards during the Road to WrestleMania anyways?
ReplyDeleteTo an extent, but it wasn't the edgy/violent/anything could happen here product that was the original ECW. It came off as too polished/corporate.
ReplyDeleteHe had better Mic Skills than Swagger.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who expected the old hardcore ECW was clearly kidding themselves.
ReplyDeleteTo an extent, but I thought Edge's was higher for the pre-Rumble build than what they'd had the previous couple years. Could be wrong, though.
ReplyDeleteAnd also, wasn't there something about Nitro's highest ever quarter hour rating being a Kendall Windham vs Dale torborg match, or something like that? Didn't mean they should have main evented Starrcade.
ReplyDelete@Vince Jordan thanks for the upvote. I LEARNED IT BY WATCHING YOU!
ReplyDeleteWell, it wasn't too much to imagine when they said Heyman would be booking and such. Shane McMahon had some good ideas for it that was in line with the original product, but was overruled. I knew WWE would want to just make a mockery of it, though, so I only watched up to Batista-Big Show getting shat on by the Hammerstein crowd.
ReplyDeleteThe lack of violence was probably for the best
ReplyDeleteI was there for that!
ReplyDeleteHa, I'll never forget that "Change the Channel" chant.
ReplyDeleteAnd Kurt was still a really handsome guy in 2000, although that did change really quickly. Could say the same for HHH, though.
ReplyDeleteBarrett beating Orton at Survivor Series for the title.
ReplyDeleteHe only had 1 real ppv win over those 6 months (making cena join the nexus). Fine they lost at summerslam. However, barrett never got his big title win. He got screwed by cena for the title at the ppv before. He lost to orton that night and the next night on raw after the nexus kicked orton's butt before the match (then the miz cash-in). Next month, he lost a chair's match to cena. Ever since then, he has looked like a chump except as bad news barrett. Who knows where barrett would be if he actually beat orton that night?
P.S. I did enjoy the miz cash-in that night; but cena could have beaten barrett at tlc or rumble and then miz cash-in if they wanted miz/cena at wrestlemania.
HBK over Cena in the main event of WM 23. I was sick of Cena as champ, it's the main event of WM featuring HBK and HBK hadn't been champ in over four years. HBK should've gone over that night
ReplyDeleteCena going over was absolutely the right call, especially since HBK went out of action in May
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Stings beat Hogan. NWO turns on Hogan for losing. Hogan becomes a babyface and stars as the "Babe Ruth of WCW" for a few more years before retiring.
ReplyDeleteOh another one would be CM Punk beats The Undertaker at WM 29 to end the streak. Punk's heel character was essentially a troll and with wwe being on good terms with every living wrestler Taker beat at WM, Punk would've had heel material for life running down all the legends and wrestlers who didn't do what Punk did.
ReplyDeleteThen I guess you could make the case that the cash-in itself shouldn't have happened. Although, could they do it at Mania back then?
ReplyDeleteWell, Edge was running into the time limit of cashing in, as he won the briefcase at WM 21.
ReplyDeleteThe Feds vs VKM so I could have a different hobby.
ReplyDeleteThe Flair-Hogan double-turn at Uncensored 99. This was supposed to be Flair finally beating Hogan for the title as a babyface and then WCW cheats us, the fans, out of it by doing a double-turn. Of course, the fans cheered it anyway
ReplyDeleteNo love for Awesome Kong Vs. Gail Kim?!? Wow. You lot are seriously missing out. Fucking hot as shit crowd for it. Hands down the best women's match i've seen. Hard brawling, physical action, well paced, really entertaining.
ReplyDeleteThe Hammerstein show was cool. The July 4th Heyman heel turn was pretty massive, too (drinks being thrown in the ring?!). Dreamer winning the title was another goodun.
ReplyDeleteIt had some pretty awesome moments, but they were not worth dragging ECW out of the grave for.
Overall, I guess it was pretty cool that the originals got a pay cheque, exposure in the mainstream, and thus guaranteed some decent indy bookings for the foreseeable future.
That's exactly what happened.
ReplyDeleteI don't remember Stallion being anything but a jobber. He showed up on the Muthaship periodically but didn't see him do much else in the ring. I always loved indy stuff whether it's wrestling, baseball, streetball or whatever. Just like the change of pace.
I think it was more a case of the match needing to have a violent stip.
ReplyDeleteI mean fuck, they did a movie style at-home attack, which was AWESOME, then having a fucking normal match at WM?
Bullshit.
Has it really been 10 years? Damn, I knew it was a while but mannnnn
ReplyDeleteNow you got me wondering about who could legitimately break the record. And, I got nothing
ReplyDeleteDidn't Sabu just lose clean?
ReplyDeleteNo homo? Oh wait, NEVERMIND!
ReplyDeleteSomeone mentioned it, the guy just chooses to skip the stuff he doesn't like when he recaps.
ReplyDeleteThats easy: DDP & David Arquette vs. Jeff Jarrett & Eric Bischoff. Killed the business as we know it.
ReplyDeleteI could see it happening again. I mean, Rock came pretty close last year. And Hogan in 2002 was up there.
ReplyDeleteWrestlemania 4 main event, Dibiase Vs Savage.
ReplyDeleteHave Andre move to attack Elizabeth which distracts Savage allowing Dibiase to roll him up. After the match you can have Andre, Virgil & Dibiase beat on Savage until Elizabeth goes for Hogan for the save to still get the megapowers.
Except now you have Dibiase as a hell champ, the first heel champ in 4 years. Suddenly there's a lot of faces who can get a quick run on top as challenger, whilst Megapowers fight Virgil/Andre. You can still have the Megapowers Vs MegaBucks match at Summerslam, and at Wrestlemania 5 you have Savage over Andre & Hogan over Dibiase.
Taryn Terrell vs Gail Kim last woman standing was much better than it had any right to be.
ReplyDeleteThe result I would have changed: Hulk Hogan defeats Nick Bockwinkel at Super Sunday. I want to see an alternate universe where wrestling hater Vince McMahon has real competition.
Vince still poaches Hogan.
ReplyDeleteLikely. Verne still should have gambled.
ReplyDeleteI love WWE trying to explain away regional wrestling preferences
ReplyDeleteI think a better solution is not to do the match at all though and have Goldberg you know... get his revenge.
ReplyDeleteVince's bodybuilder mentality is hilarious. HHH would definitely work the average guy, but real fighters don't look like HHH. Flabby old Billy Robinson might still have had HHH in the 90s.
ReplyDelete"Except now you have Dibiase as a hell champ"
ReplyDeleteMarcus Licinius Crassus could be his Virgil.
(Biggus Dickus as Andre)
There's a future QOTD: What match would you erase from history if you could?
ReplyDeleteMy answer might be that, or Blazer vs.Godfather.
I'd erase Triple H vs. Ultimate Warrior. Triple H deserved better than that unprofessional jerk!
ReplyDeleteRicky Steamboat beats Honky Tonky Man in June of 1987. He could drop the belt to Savage, Roberts, Butch Reed, hell, even Hercules, anyone but HTM for that miserable record title run.
ReplyDeleteThe ECW fanatic mindset summed up in a nutshell: Chanting "same old shit" at a guy who debuted in 2001 while cheering on the guy who hasn't changed his moveset since 1999.
ReplyDeleteYeah but big show was considered an ECW guy for whatever reason.
ReplyDeleteThat match was Corny. Then they had that awful Three Stages of Hell match at the Bash.
ReplyDeleteWhen Flair came back in late 98 he was the biggest babyface in the company until this stupid heel turn. The fans weren't turning on Goldberg in mass or anything but he was no longer the juggernaut he was in the summer
ReplyDeleteFinish I'd change:
ReplyDeleteLex Luger defeats Ric Flair to win the NWA World Heavyweight Championship at 1988's Great American Bash.
Honorable mentions:
Ric Flair defeats Hollywood Hogan to won the WCW World Heavyweight Championship at SuperBrawl IX.
Goldberg def. Bret Hart for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship at Starrcade '99
yeah that's true. It's not going to happen anytime soon though. Can you name someone that hasn't had a title reign in the last 11 years that you could see getting one in the near future? HBK is all I got.
ReplyDeleteSuperBrawl IX killed the business as we know it. That was the death blow to WCW.
ReplyDeleteGreat one. I'd probably exclude the Owen match because it's obviously a unique scenario.
ReplyDeleteYeah, definitely. Nobody screams "Same old $#!T" more than an unmotivated/going through the motions RVD.
ReplyDeleteHTM did huge business as IC Champ....
ReplyDeleteScrew passing the torch, I have Hogan go over Rock at WM 18 and I have Rock beat Cena again at Mania 29...
ReplyDeleteAlso, I hated seeing Orton go over Christian two days after Christian won the title finally...
The guy in the stall next to me appears to be masturbating.
ReplyDeletehaha, that was such a middle finger to the smarks. (needless to say, I loved it. )
ReplyDeleteThe entire problem with this question is that you can change the matches but you can't change the way the company takes that outcome and rolls with it.
ReplyDeleteThis is especially prevalent in WCW, but WWF had it right before the InVasion. Obviously, you could've changed Austin beating Rock via interference to just Austin beating Rock and stunnering McMahon, but that wouldn't change anything in the end, because they just would've had Hollywood Rock leading the InVasion, or they'd hold off on Austin's true heel turn until down the line. Punk over Trips at NoC 2011 would've been great, but in the end they'd still use Punk as the means to get the belt onto Rock, and you can't change Punk/Rock because Punk/Cena wouldn't have done good business no matter how they used Rock to get Punk over. Savage over Hogan at WM5 wouldn't have mattered because Savage was still mentally fucked and would've been forced to put over Hulk in the long run.
WCW had so many, but again, what would the finish change if people still politic behind the scenes to eventually screw that result up? So Nash doesn't go over Goldberg. Someone still would've, probably Hogan, in rather damaging fashion.
And what did that really accomplish? It set up Mark Henry, which Christian still could've easily done, and it trolled Christian worse than the smarks because that should've been his gold watch for x years of service.
ReplyDeleteEven if it were, say, Daniel Bryan going over in that spot in a massive pop a cheap ratings upset, it'd still be a bad move because it shows some tremendous disrespect to a guy whos always deserved just a little better than what he got.
Agreed.
ReplyDeleteNever had a problem with HHH winning at WM 25. I don't know how big the streak was back then but I would have had Flair beat Undertaker at WM 18 to get revenge for Taker beating up Arn and David.
ReplyDeleteNow what they could have done was have HHH win the Rumble. Orton still could have faced Shane and he and Legacy could have taken Kofi out just like Edge did and have him win the title. HHH gets his revenge on Orton and takes the title from him.
Hogan over Warrior clean with the usual at WrestleMania VI.
ReplyDeleteI'm just saying that I enjoy smark meltdowns (Common knowledge at this point)
ReplyDeleteThis is easy, Booker T should have won at WM 19.
ReplyDeleteNexus over Team WWE at Summerslam. After taking the beating from Barrett and Young in the final stage of the match, Cena manages a flurry and tags Bryan. Bryan steps in, and flattens him with a roundhouse kick. All three men then finish him off.
ReplyDeleteThe Nexus angle was more or less killed off as any sort of serious threat by Supercena, putting them over in that scenario (or something like it) would have given them monster heel heat and kept it going for much longer.
Yeah, but then what does that change? If you change the result, the outcome can still be exploited. Booker T beats Trips, and then? Loss at Backlash right after? Used as sacrificial lamb to get Goldberg over? Or, heaven forbid, Kevin Nash?
ReplyDeleteIt saves us from a decade plus of whining and bitching.
ReplyDeleteBad decision for workrate fans, but was perfect for the business.
ReplyDeleteOr proper payoffs at the biggest show of the year.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I read the question wrong, I just know it took Booker a while to recover.
ReplyDeleteIt does give drama to every HHH match where you know he has to job.
ReplyDeleteExactly. there's always a "yeah but". Including WM 20, 21, 22 and 30.
ReplyDeleteIve always felt Christian was this generations Tito Santana and he deserved better than a 2 day reign. I was at Extreme Rules that night, crowd popped really big for Christian's win over Del Rio...
ReplyDeleteWWE doesnt get that guys like Cena and Orton get such a backlash because they are so fucking stale...
Or Taker at 27. If not for HHH being such an asshole, I don't think I would've freaked when he hit the tombstone
ReplyDeleteOnly point I agree with is Goldberg. He needed to lose, and Nash was as good a person as any to beat him (although in a perfect world they would've pulled the trigger on DDP instead at Havoc).
ReplyDeleteWe were discussing this the other day, but the best way to deal with Cena/Rock II would be to turn Rock heel upon his return, have him lose to Punk at Rumble then have Vince or whoever insert him into EC. Then you have a different match dynamic for Cena/Rock, a major boost for Punk AND have a reason for your champ not even appearing on TV (much less even defending it ever).
Owen Hart vs. Godfather being scrapped from Over the Edge 99 all together the day before the show
ReplyDeleteI know this isn't really what the question was asking, so my apologies, but I wish Money in the Bank was a one-shot deal instead of a regular thing. It worked perfectly the first time with Edge cashing in the way he did on Cena, but I hate new champs being crowned (especially for the first time) by taking advantage of the injured champ. Makes the new champ look like complete shit. If you wanna make a guy, build him up the old way by winning the belt from the champ at Mania.
ReplyDeleteI think Booker should've gone over too, but lets be realistic. Trips was half right. Not in the racial sense, but people with Booker T's SKILLSET shouldn't be world championship material. T was a charismatic guy who's performances ranged from below average to good on any given night, until he turned it up with King Booker on a depleted roster.
ReplyDeleteThe entire problem with that match was the same thing as the Kane feud: Trips forced his hand and put himself in a scenario where he shouldn't win but does so anyways. Kane didn't deserve a world title belt that much, but he should've had it because of the way Katie Vick screwed everything up for his character.
Montreal, Cena/Lesnar, and the entirety of the Invasion.
ReplyDeleteHHH would have made a hell of a lot more sense than Lesnar at least.
ReplyDeleteHHH somehow managed to look like a anti-Jewish drawing by a nazi group, despite not being Jewish.
ReplyDeleteWCW was dead long before then.
ReplyDeleteYes, he tapped out to the Tazmission. You spend 18 months building up Taz as a legit asshole and then have beat Sabu cleanly? Outragous.
ReplyDeleteI firmly believe that ECW jumped the shark after Wrestlepalooza 97, which was one month after this show, never again having the life altering multilayered angles that helped put ECW on the map and this match and subsequent double turn is one of the main reasons.
With surprise cash-ins now being a cheap way to put a title on someone, I would be in favor of a rule where the cash-in must come a week in advance, no more surprising a down champion.
ReplyDeleteSting/Hogan at Starrcade. Not only did it make Sting look like a complete chump, it botched Bret Hart's first storyline from the jump.
ReplyDeleteAnd then they blew the hottest thing they had the next year in Goldberg at the following Starrcade!
ReplyDeleteBret defeats Yokozuna and Wrestlemania IX. Then Hogan challenges for King of the Ring or Summerslam and passes the torch.
ReplyDeleteIm glad Hogan never passed the torch to Bret, the last thing Bret needed was another 150 pages added to his book....
ReplyDeleteCM Punk vs HHH at Night of Champions 2011. Punk loses to Del Rio at SS, then to HHH at NOC, gets pinned in a tag at Vengeance and finally gets beat yet again at Hell in the Cell. I feel if he had beat HHH at NOC the rest of those losses might not have happened. Absolutely no reason for it.
ReplyDeleteWhatever, Bret going over Hogan and taking on all comers as champ for a year would be better than meaningless feuds with Lawler and such. Hogan was a tiresome cunt at that point, and brought nothing to the table. So what if Bret is a mark for himself? He's arguably the best of all time, for fuck's sake.
ReplyDeleteFair enough. I had no problem with RVD announcing his shot in advance. It's the jumping a downed champion that I take issue with.
ReplyDeleteHis matches weren't all that great as King Booker.
ReplyDeleteThey've been talking about Foreman v. Moorer incessantly for the past few shows. They even referenced how Foreman was the same age as Macho Man. So it's not that.
ReplyDeleteBret was good for what he was but he was never on the level of a Hulk Hogan and for that Hogan was right to not put him over...
ReplyDeleteThat is what a heel is supposed to do though. It is easy heat and the crowd is excited at the prospect of a title change...
ReplyDeleteTriple H or Shawn going over at WM20 certainly would have eliminated some problems in hindsight.
ReplyDeleteBut how do we know Bret couldn't have achieved the level of something greater if he'd gotten a clean win and been elevated in the fans eyes over Hogan?
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that Bret would've been the next Hogan, since that's ridiculous. No one even rivals Hogan except Austin. But Bret never really had someone from the older generation to give him much of a rub. He didn't beat Savage, he didn't beat Hogan, didn't beat Andre, etc. The most rub he got was beating Perfect.
He wouldve still been in the match so it would still be an issue...
ReplyDeleteI do agree that Bret never had a torch passed to him by anybody credible but I dont think a victory over Hogan makes much of a difference...
ReplyDeleteBret didn't have the charisma or star power of any of the guys you mentioned. Mainstream wise, even a flash in the pan like Goldberg is more well known...
I agree with the mainstream, but Bret might've at least had more substance to him by being able to go over some of the old guard. That's why I wish Hogan had jobbed to him, since he was on the way out the door anyway.
ReplyDeleteIsn't that the same kind of short-sighted, relying on the old guys booking that got them in trouble in the first place?
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, Flair had some mileage left but there was zero future there long term. If the problem wasn't Flair, then it was certainly their lack of commitment to long term stories -- by early 199 they were just all over the place -- choose something!
Probably a smart move by Hogan not to job on the way out. Why hurt his brand for Vince was probably his thinking...
ReplyDeleteIm with you on all of this...
ReplyDeleteNot exactly. I think everyone knew this was Flairs last hurrah. Give him one last send-off and then they could have transitioned to Goldberg or whoever.
ReplyDeleteFlair was the least of their troubles. I think the latter part of your statement was the root of the problem. They went from Goldberg/Nash to nWo elite to the Horsemen then back to babyface Hogan in about a six minute span. They didn't know what direction they wanted to go in.
I don't know if Booker winning would've pushd him over the edge in terms of popularity, but I've heard that Booker was intended to only get a short reign, and was either going to drop it right back to Hunter, or to Nash or somebody so that they could do the feud with HHH anyway.
ReplyDeleteAlso, back when it actually happened, I remember hearing that Booker was injured and contemplating retirement. Not sure if true or not, but it's a rumour that I haven't heard anyone bring up in years.
Booking the match would have been tricky though. Turning Hogan heel was unthinkable at the time and obviously turning Bret would be counterproductive, but in a face vs face match it's not guaranteed that the crowds would actually side with Bret. Remember, Hogan went onto WM 18 as a heel and we all know how that turned out.
ReplyDeleteIf any match hurt Angle during that period, it was his match with 'Taker at Fully Loaded shortly before. And 'Taker made Angle look like a total joke a few months later at Survivor Series despite losing.
ReplyDeleteHHH/Angle might've been a missed opportunity, but it didn't actively make Angle look like a joke the way the 'Taker matches did. And Angle beat Trips a few months later at the Rumble, in another unclean victory, but one that didn't make him look like a dork.
Hogan by that time already probably regretted putting over the Ultimate Warrior and probably was not looking to pass the torch yet again....
ReplyDeleteAnd let's TOTALLY ignore the 430+ world championship reign right afterwards. That wasn't important.
ReplyDeleteThis was a really cool question. This is like the age old question (that I believe was popularized by the Dead Zone) about whether or not you would/should take out Hitler if you could go back in time.
ReplyDeleteBut is there a bigger conversation killer than Vince "I love smark meltdowns...and btw, I don't really watch the shows I argue about" Jordan? I don't know exactly what kind of adult male acts like him, waiting on the internet to crap on people in a blog's comments section...but I know it's a sad one.
It was a chore to get to the good responses because of it. That's all I'm saying.
It was important, but only just before he lost it. He was never main eventing ( I think A.J. made it on more DVD Covers and PPV posters than he did) and it would have started out better if he had been built strong. I am a huge Punk fan, but he really ended becoming the longest reigning transitional champ in history.
ReplyDeleteYou're evil.
ReplyDeleteQuite aside from whether he still gets Jobbed out after the loss to HHH, the mere fact the hottest guy in the company by miles (who had brought WWE mainstream media attention for the first time in forever) gets jobbed out to a partially retired over the hill non-entity beggars belief. It can only have been done to hurt Punk, and cut him off at the knees. There is no other reason.
ReplyDeleteReally? Interesting... I'm kind of a nerd for this stuff.
ReplyDeleteYup! Plus half of Savage and Flair's heads for the cage match haha.
ReplyDeleteIt's weird because WCW has used a lot of alternate angles on their other THV tapes (Bash at the Beach 1996 comes to mind) for cutting out various gaffes or mistakes, but I guess for a cage match they probably shoot it from less angles because of how the cage restricts the ability to have a lot of guys in the ring.
Or maybe you shouldn't blade if the company can't show it...