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Shane McMahon and WCW

Hi Scott,

I've been watching a lot of 2001 lately and seem to have a gap in my memory... I remember Shane O being the one to purchase WCW, beating Vince at Mania & then continuing on to the great match with Kurt Angle at KOTR. All of this was as a FACE.

My question is: when did Shane turn heel? It seemed that he/WCW were the faces to start with but obviously when the Invasion really kicked off they were all heels; please jog my memory!

​It was pretty quick after KOTR when they did the Alliance angle to turn everyone heel, so your timeline is correct.  It's kind of crazy how momentous a swing happened in ONE SHOW.  It literally was months of storyline twists crammed into a single RAW.  The disastrous Tacoma RAW was July 2, and then the crazy Atlanta RAW was July 9.  And they managed to do one of the biggest buyrates of the modern era with only 2 weeks build based off that, which still blows my mind.  ​

Comments

  1. I wish the WWE had been able to leave WCW as an independent promotion. Unfortunately, that never took place because of USA Network.

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  2. What did USA have to do with it?

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  4. They were opposed to the WWE having any other programming on another network outlet. So, the WWE didn't have the option of trying to get another channel to carry WCW programming after they bought the promotion. Still, I wish they'd just converted Smackdown! to a WCW show.

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  5. Here's a QOTD for you - if you could pick one wrestler/personality (who is still physically capable) to return right now, who would it be? My #1 would be Shane - what a breath of fresh air he'd be on Raw right now

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  6. They weren't on the USA network they were in a deal with viacom.

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  7. See....they need to buy TNA and run a "Special Event" in Sept. and get a whole bunch more subscribers.

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  8. The problem with the invasion was that it didn't start a year earlier with the Radicalz. That should have been WWE's spin on nWo with Austin playing the Hogan part when he got healthy.

    Seriously, if you look at Austin pre heel turn as a WCW sleeper agent it makes a ton sense.

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  9. Raw was going to be the WCW show and Smackdown was the WWF show. Viacom was fine with all of it.

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  10. The plan was to turn Smackdown into Nitro but upn or whoever said no.

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  11. I don't agree at all that the radicalz could have came close to pulling off an nwo like vive in any form.

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  12. Less that, more that the fan reaction to the WCW main event in Tacoma was such a disaster that Vince made the decision WCW could never work and thus began the misery that was the Invasion.

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  13. Ah, that's right. I like to forget that they were ever on Spike TV.

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  14. Yeah either way they had a ton of content with confidential and from the vault and another late night show before velocity. I think it was a lot more than that. Viacom didn't want another show but they had time slots they could have given wcw. I think it's obvious with how it was treated vince never gave the company the respect it needed to be it's own show and probably rightfully so.

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  15. That was bad, I agree, but I don't know what Vince was thinking running Booker T-Buff Bagwell.

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  16. The match sucked but it was a classic wcw match in regards to two guys who were firmly wcw guys. On top of that everyone had pegged Buff to be a big star for years. Did he get mentioned in the famous vince promo where fans hijacked it with Goldberg chants.

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  17. Knuckleberry PinnJuly 25, 2014 at 12:16 PM

    And so, I am willing to bet, that if they did that buyrate with what they did, if they did one of the WCW vs WWF dream cards, they may have gotten the biggest buyrate in history. And given that in the couple of years FOLLOWING the invasion, they did end up getting these stars, it certainly COULD have been done:

    Rock vs Hogan
    Austin vs Goldberg
    Brothers of Destruction vs The Outsiders
    Kurt Angle vs Ric Flair
    Lita and Trist vs Stacy Kiebler and Torrie Wilson
    Hardyz and Chris Jericho vs DDP, Kanyon and Scott Steiner
    Chris Benoit vs Booker T

    Voila.

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  18. Yes, he got a big pop, and Vince bought into it.

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  19. Was the Tacoma RAW the Buff/Booker T shitstorm?

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  20. Knuckleberry PinnJuly 25, 2014 at 12:20 PM

    Yes sir, and "shitstorm" is letting it off easy.

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  21. That isn't what I wrote.

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  22. I have no idea why Bagwell got all the blame. It was the entire "WCW Production" thing that the crowd hated. It really could have been Booker vs ANYONE, and the crowd reaction would have been exactly the same.

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  23. Sting-HHH. But from a business perspective, would you do Rock-Hogan and Austin-Goldberg in the same show? That's giving money away

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  24. You said their spin on the nwo. They already had their spin on the nwo with the original dx. There is zero a out the radicalz that I see as any potential for anything of that magnitu de. I like the idea of Austin doing a hoganesque turn which is what they were trying to do with the invasion turn they just failed.

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  25. oh yeah it'd be great to see him run in and singlehandedly beat down kane/orton (while they both act afraid of him for some reason)

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  26. Check out this kayfab Austin as a WCW sleeper agent timeline I just worked out:

    Summer 94: Hogan signs with WCW. Flair senses something is wrong, hatches secret plan with Austin to go to WWF to be activated when needed.
    1995: To throw off suspicion of being a WCW secret agent, Austin goes to ECW to rail against WCW.
    1996: Austin successfully infiltrates WWF
    June 1996: Outsiders show up in WCW to invade, Flair activates Austin, who becomes Stone Cold.
    Rest of 1996: Hogan turns on WCW, Sting breaks and leaves. Flair instructs Austin to hit back at WWF's biggest star, Bret Hart and break and demoralize him.
    1997: Austin is successful. He has causes Bret to snap and set up a chain reaction that leads to WWF to screw him over.
    1998: With no one left in his path, Austin is told to take on the owner of the company and wreak as much havoc as he can.
    1999: Vince launches another operation against WCW, sending Vince Russo.
    2000: WCW is desperate and takes a page out of WWF's playbook. Knowing that death is close, they send 4 bright young wrestlers to WWF to carry not only WCW's legacy but final orders for Austin to take over WWF.

    I'm sure I could find more stuff that connects it all but my 1999/2000 wrestling memory is hazy.

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  27. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryJuly 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM

    It's amazing they couldn't hold that off one more until they got to Atlanta.

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  28. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryJuly 25, 2014 at 12:41 PM

    Stacy and Torrie? I'm almost happy the Invasion went to shit if that's a desired outcome.

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  29. I mean spin on the nWo as another group invading, not them just being nWo clones coming out in black and white t-shirts.

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  30. Dude...you ahould go outside more

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  31. He could have gotten over but even in wcw they always stuck him in tag teams luger/norton/steiner etc he always was over and obviously had the look and physical chemistry. But clearly lacked the drive and ambition. If memory serves his mom called him out of work in the wwf and that's why he was released.

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  32. What am I, a 12 year old who needs to spend more time outside playing tag?

    Anyway, I'm going on vacation in 2 hours where I'm spending a week doing nothing but sitting in a boat drinking beer. I think I got "being outside more" covered.

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  33. I could see Dynamite refusing to pay someone back

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  34. Harold Sakata, who played Odd Job in the Bond movie.

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  35. What kind of beer?

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  36. I was at the July 2, 2001 Raw. Most fun I've ever had at a show.

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  37. Bagwell and booker have one boring match...... entire plan for wcw scrapped since they suck and millions of dollars wasted. One year later. Triple h and undertaker have boring match at KOTR...... triple h has world title handed to him two months later and undertaker stays in main event with brock lesnar. Makes sense to me

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  38. Probably watered down american shit.

    Jeez. Who pissed in my cereal today

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  39. God damn right I am. This is Murcia.

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  40. Timing was the problem. In July 2001, WCW still looked at as a loser. Had the WWE waited 5 years to relaunch it, it would have had a better chance to survive. Hell, I'd love it if Shane ran WCW completely independent from the WWE.

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  41. around the same time Bagwell got into a fight with Shane Helms, who was friends with the Hardy Boyz, and Bagwell ended up with a ton of heat.

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  42. I was at that (and every other ATL Raw and Nitro until about 03). Such an awesome show.

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  43. In all fairness you have to protect young up and comers like Triple H and Taker. They were the future of the business in 02.

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  44. in the Legends of Wrestling show about heatseekers, JR tells a story about how during this 2001 timeframe he's at his office as talent relations head and Buff's Mom called him and said he wouldn't make his weekend bookings. Buff Bagwell's mom called in sick for him.

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  45. I think that one happened for real anywYs.

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  46. 5 years it would have been nearly 2007 no one cares about wcw in 2007. I could see an argument for a year to relaunch it which would make hogan, outsiders, flair, rey mysterio and others done with their Turner contract. I

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  47. Undertaker was already a legend by that point, and Triple H was the biggest star/draw left on the roster after Rocky and Austin were winding down their careers. Slightly different from Bagwell and Booker.

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  48. They should have had WWF guys go back to their old WCW gimmicks ... including Steve Austin. Have him turn and them come out the next night with his goattee shaved, the stars on his trunks calling himself Stunning Steve Austin.

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  49. I'm glad you didn't say Miller or bud. Iron city is a perfectly acceptable answer.

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  50. I heard Vince attempted to bring Brian Pillman back from the dead to reform the Hollywood Blondes.

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  51. With Orton unsure how to sell Shane's horrible punching combos.

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  52. By 2007, WCW is remembered more for the good than the bad. If people were excited for the ECW relaunch, I'm sure people would have been excited for a WCW relaunch.

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  53. Mr. Fuji is an insane bastard.

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  54. You have to have a Divas match, and who else would have worked from WCW? It's a perfectly acceptable piss-break match.

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  55. Thanks for the info

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  56. (Not completely serious)


    Raven. Wyatt giving interview, lights go out, THUMP, lights come on with Raven standing over a KOed Wyatt. "Let me show you how to do this properly."

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  57. Hey everyone, let's re-book The Invasion again!!!!! WHAT DO YA SAY????!!!!!


    .......

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  58. Only if Bruno Sammartino and/or Bob Backlund can become WWF champion.

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  59. AverageJoeEverymanJuly 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM

    Brothers-in-Casts

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  60. That is beyond pathetic

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  61. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJuly 25, 2014 at 2:13 PM

    Brian I think you should subtitle your shoot interviews with "find out what Fuji did this time"

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  62. placetobepodcastJuly 25, 2014 at 2:19 PM

    I think a WCW guy should have won the KOTR... have Shane buy his way in or have Vince put a KOTR slot up for whatever reason. Mike Awesome or Lance Storm taking the crown for WCW could have been a good way to kick things off.

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  63. Yeah - but even the ECW was booked to fail from day one.

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  64. RF video have, I think, made compilation tapes from various shoots where different guys talk about one hot button issue (Benoit, etc). A 'Fuji's Greatest Hits' would be a great one.

    My favourite Fuji story is the one about him giving Saito directions from his home to the arena, and they drove for hours and hours. Fuji offered to drive them back after the show and they were home within 30 minutes.

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  65. TM CooltrainerBretJuly 25, 2014 at 2:49 PM

    The InVasion should've ended with John Cena debuting as a face, btu then turning heel and putting the sTF on Shawn Michaels, leading to Shane McMahon ringing the bell. Daniel Bryan also should've been buried in the finish.

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  66. Wow KOTR 2002, theres a Top 10 awful ppv for you

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  67. No, not even on a WM honestly.

    I say that in the sense that both of those matches SHOULD be main-events, yet Jericho/HHH shut that down

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  68. Judging by the name, I assume its a Pittsburgh or some other Pennsylvania beer.

    ahhhh nothing beats a local brew. Im glad being my age (26) that im in the middle of a HUGE uprising of great home beers in my state (Michigan)

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  69. MikeyMike, WitnessJuly 25, 2014 at 3:06 PM

    "I've been watching a lot of 2001 lately. "

    A comment I find normal but a non wrestling fan would find so weird lol

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  70. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJuly 25, 2014 at 3:19 PM

    or your an Islamic terrorist.

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  71. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJuly 25, 2014 at 3:20 PM

    They might have been the linear champion at that point. Has anyone checked?

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  72. Sounds like a job for Booker or DDP

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  73. No shit they were bigger stars. But vince let ONE match being bad make him not want to give wcw any credit when his guys had matches just as bad.

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  74. or Scott Steiner for the potential of him calling Steph something awful on live TV

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  75. thats whats so insanely stupid about this.

    they could have even announce it as sort of "homecoming" because it wasn't just "some Southern city" but Atlanta instead.

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  76. let's be realistic here: TNA invades NXT.



    spoiler: the NXT guys win.

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  77. The crowd reaction when Austin crashes that 10-man tag match is already one of the loudest ever as it was...can you imagine if it happened after a multi-month Sting style build. IIRC for that particular angle with Austin they basically crammed character development that could've carried 6 months of storylines in to 1 show.

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  78. I thought it was crap too but you know? Everything is in play with this guy. I wouldn't put anything past him

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  79. So why would Fuji keep the dog head around? I'm cracking up laughing as I picture Fuji revealing the dog to the guy he fed him to

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  80. I'd legit murder someone who did thst to me. No fucking questions asked. For some reason shit lime thst horrifies me. Fuji is a piece of shit. Of course, so is the guy he did it to.

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  81. I always get irked that Mike Awesome didn't have a better run in the WWE or WCW. WCW booked him terribly (e.g. "Fat Chick Thriller"), but I'm surprised that the WWE didn't find a better way to use him.

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  82. Shoot Interviews can be good between anyone, really.


    For instance, the Shawn Daivairi shoot that is leading this week's poll is very entertaining. You also get to find out how the locker room treated Mohammed Hassan

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  83. That story about Judy Bagwell calling JR is one of my favorite bits from Legends of Wrestling

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  84. Does Fuji have a shoot? Maybe he should have been included in this.

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  85. "I will talk to you about anything you want, except your son, because he's a man and he can call me."

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  86. For sure dude

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  87. Robert Bradley CurranJuly 25, 2014 at 8:40 PM

    Or maybe you enjoy a space odyssey?

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  88. Buff Bagwell going for the WWF Championship?

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  89. WCW being WCW made Vince not want to give them any credit. All those guys were fucked from the get-go.

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  90. They sure as shit weren't gonna bring back Medusa.

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  91. Giving it away? Not leaving it on the table?

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  92. Kamala, although he'd have a tough go at climbing the ropes for the splash.

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  93. "...he always was over and obviously had the look and physical chemistry. But clearly lacked the drive and ambition."

    And skill.

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  94. God no, don't ruin my NXT with those bums.

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  95. Or maybe you've been watching Dr Dre's 2001 album tour DVD?

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  96. WCW Championship

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  97. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANJuly 26, 2014 at 6:25 AM

    Give them Jericho and they're good to go

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  98. Criticized the InVasion angle at the time, but what I'd give to go back to those days...

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  99. Yes, I know, but Hudson said "WWF Championship."

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