WARNING: Chris Benoit match ahead. After seven years, have we moved on yet?
Interesting setting for these two mat technicians, as they bust their asses to put on a pretty good match, and the biker crowd reacts in a most unfortunate way.
WCW - Chris Benoit vs. Dean Malenko by JoCrazy
Interesting setting for these two mat technicians, as they bust their asses to put on a pretty good match, and the biker crowd reacts in a most unfortunate way.
WCW - Chris Benoit vs. Dean Malenko by JoCrazy
Prime example of how a crowd can kill a match.
ReplyDeleteThey should have changed the match on the fly and made it into a wild brawl once they lost the crowd. Benoit certainly had the chops (coming off his GaB brawl with Sullivan) but idk about Malenko. I guess you could count his out of ring stuff with Jericho in 98?
This match is damn near ruined for me because of the stupid bikers. This must have been the worst crowd in history. Bar none.
ReplyDeleteI always took this match as the two of them amusing themselves more than anything else. After about 4 minutes in, you get the feeling that they both simultaneously realize that absolutely nobody watching gives a crap about what's going on, so instead of doing what most guys do and go through the motions they decide to just work each other out instead.
ReplyDeleteI remember watching this match on the Benoit Tribute. I remember a couple of hour sbefore I heard that benoit died while watching The Departed.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny because I was watching the movie again for the first time...probably since Benoit died, and the scene where Damon goes in and tells a thug they arrested to "call his motha" was the exact instant my mom said "Hey, have you ever heard of a Chris Ben-oint?".
Strange how the mind relates stuff. That said, good match, bittersweet and somber, not unlike a margarita with a tear-salt rim.
This crowd and the gimmick are the examples of the best and worst of WCW in that period. This and Souled Out. It shows that WCW wasn't afraid to try some things out and get away from the same old stuff. And that's good, WCW trying stuff out in the mid 90s is literally what got me back into wrestling after not paying attention for a few years. But they were also epic disasters. And that's bad.
ReplyDeleteIt's not really that they tried. It was a unique setting and a unique idea. But it's the fact that they went back there 3 more times!
ReplyDeleteI never understood doing this show like this for 3 DAMN YEARS.
ReplyDeleteThe boss likes motorcycles. Any other questions?
ReplyDeleteI guess in this case, we could use the lame "Mute the crowd and it's a bad match", and reverse it, eh?
ReplyDeleteThe crowd turned it up to eleven when Harlem Heat came out.
ReplyDeleteYep. This was Bischoff's yearly vacation.
ReplyDeleteWho decided to give these guys 30 minutes in front of this crowd? Benoit and Malenko is a classic match but you think this crowd is gonna go for 30 minutes of it?
ReplyDeleteThat's why we desperately need another equally big wrestling company.
ReplyDeleteexcept wrestling has never in its century long history been like TV or movies.
ReplyDeleteit's a totaly unique art, and WRESTLING minds shpuld make up the creative team
TL;DR: Bet the Network farm on Attitude-era nostalgia, tweak NXT to draw in the ROH/Chikara crowd, and imitate the successes of YouTube stars to build fan attachment to performers.
ReplyDelete1. Suspend all other productions by the WWE Network staff and get every last frame of footage from 1995-2001 on the network YESTERDAY. WWF, WCW, ECW, the whole lot of it. Then, run outside advertising begging lapsed Attitude-era fans to join in the big-ass nostalgia party. For the next few months, the late 90's should be the secondary focus of promoting the Network after (the events formerly known as) PPVs. Unearth guys like Ken Shamrock, Steve Blackman, Val Venis, The Godfather, Bob Holly, the Headbangers and Bull Buchanan, and align them with the Attitude stars already on board (Rikishi, Too Cool, The New Age Outlaws) to convince old-school fans to party like it's literally 1999. Tell Mick Foley and Steve Austin whatever the hell they need to hear to win them over again, and if this initiative starts to take off, spring for a Rock cameo. If TNA goes under one night, then Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, and Bubba Ray Dudley should have Legends contracts (if nothing else) FedEx'd to them by sunrise, followed by attempts to bring in the likes of Matt Hardy, Taz, D'Lo Brown and Al Snow if their requests are at all reasonable.
There were more eyeballs on wrestling shows during that era than there ever were before or have been since, and it's a waste to barely even try to appeal to that goldmine of nostalgia when they need subscribers more than anything else in the world.
2. Quietly, with no fanfare, convert NXT into a haven for indy wrestling geeks. They're already quite a bit of the way there already, all that needs to happen on this end is bring in more high-profile indy guys and foreign stars on furloughs or developmental deals (again, already happening) and then crib a few idea from ROH or Chikara to make the product feel noticeably different from WWE. NXT can be the Touchstone Pictures to WWE's Disney just by nudging it even more in its current direction, and it would result in the company's first true success at brand extension.
In order for this to work, though, NXT should only get passing mentions on WWE TV, as if it were an independent company renting air time. Word of mouth and social media should be doing the heavy lifting here. If NXT starts getting the same fanfare as WWE's other events and shows, that's the end of it right there.
3. Reverse course completely on the Zack Ryder rule. Encourage performers to interact with fans on social media and YouTube in particular. Keep some producers on staff to help the superstars and divas build custom video content, and reward them by letting them keep a major portion of the revenue of their WWE-approved channel. Study and replicate the recent successes of independent YouTube stars, and use that goodwill to put butts in seats and cash in the Network's hand.
Things I wouldn't touch:
WWE.com as it stands (they're holding their own and then some in creating content)
The main shows in general (The storylines and booking decisions can be suspect, but the wrestling and promo delivery have been improving dramatically over these past 12 months. If #3 works, it could give Smackdown a new lease on life as a showcase for fan-driven stars while the uppercard does its thing on Raw)
Total Divas (I don't think enough is made of how WWE, at long last, produced a successful, profitable program that isn't wrestling)
10,000 Bikers Dressed in Leather Vests and Chaps: Man, this shit is GAY!
ReplyDeleteHe's doing more harm than good at this point.
ReplyDeletePutting on a PPV before a crowd of bikers who paid no admission and pretty much shit on anything good.
ReplyDeleteThis show was the epitome of "Because WCW."
1: Fire Kevin Dunn.
ReplyDelete2: Fire every writer.
3: Hire Vince Russo, then have him LITERALLY sacrificed in the center of the ring at SummerSlam (if we're starting today). That's all he gets to do, as once he signs the contract I have him isolated from humanity until he comes out for that segment.
Result: RATINGS! MONEY! FAME! And I'll gladly pay off his family, if they're not eternally grateful.
(This answer is [not] serious. Maybe?)
I loved how Harlem Heat took the racism in stride and just heeled it up with no fear. They were badass.
ReplyDelete1. Hire AJ styles
ReplyDelete2. Fire Jerry Lawler (Or for Jesus sake take him off the mic)
3. Kill Triple H (Or pay CM Punk a life time supply of comic books and ice cream bars to come back)
If CM Punk vs. Vince Russo in an Inferno Match would headline Summerslam...well, sorry Honey, we ain't goin' out this month.
ReplyDeleteIt's just me, but the Godwinns were fucking awesome.
ReplyDeleteOh so YOU are calling HIM baby? OK..got it.
ReplyDeleteI didn't think that was unclear.
ReplyDeleteShe's short. Most short athletic chicks are built like that.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't stop it from being creepy.
ReplyDeleteBenoit should have killed all those bikers.
ReplyDeleteI'm OK with that. Can't be any worse than some of the shit that gets posted around these parts.
ReplyDeletecut back the number of hours produced for tv/the network
ReplyDelete3+ hrs raw, 1 hr main event, 1 hr superstars, 2 hrs smackdown is too much
They could use it as an excuse that Malenko and Benoit don't draw money and aren't over.
ReplyDelete"Have we moved on yet?" The implication being, what, exactly? That we should just forget about what Benoit did because of the time that has passed since those events? No, I'm not going to just "move on" or forgive the guy. I will always think he's a fucking piece of shit.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, can I separate the character/performer of Chris Benoit from the actual man? Yes, I can. The Wrestlemania XX match is still one of my favorites, but as soon as Triple H's hand hits the mat for the tap out, I shut it off.
So no, I guess I haven't moved on.
1) Analytics driven booking decisions - I'd build a database of Nielsen ratings of Raw & Smackdown, volumes of crowd pops, and weekly merch sales along with who appeared in segments. Based on that, I'd score how much revenue & ratings each wrestler, manager, etc is providing the company. I'd then use that information to inform booking & creative who is actually "over" and craft story lines and matches around this information. The current system looks too subjective
ReplyDelete2) Heavy creative cuts - The scripts and storylines are not very compelling. They could save a shit-ton of money by reducing the amount of scripting, have a single booker stick to making finish decisions, then let the road agents lay out the match. Simplify, simplify, simplify.
3) VP of Common Sense and Continuity - new position: Person's job is to be familiar with the history of the product and of each wrestler, feuds, and matches. As booking decisions are made, their job is to inform bookers of any breaks in continuity or any actions which are not in the scope of the wrestlers' character. After discussion, the VP has limited veto rights to a number of booking decisions. They can also support match finishes and lay-outs, recalling past finishes and allude to those during the course of the match.
1. Stop having 2 or 3 *** matches every night on raw or smackdown. One reason no one buys ppv anymore. Still have plenty of wrestling but shorten the matches on free tv and have more of them so you can have more storylines and characters. Then have the awesome matches at the "special events" every month.
ReplyDelete2. Stop the 50/50 booking nonsense. Dont think I have to explain that one.
3. Fire michael cole and jerry lawler. Replace cole with anybody it wont matter and let jbl be the great heel commentator he used to be. And when someone is getting destroyed in a beat down, the commentators should be calling it and talking about how horrible it is. Not sitting there in completely silence and then softly saying "he kicked him in the head" so I would put a stop to that too
First order of business, I'd fire Dunnn.
ReplyDeleteI don't think i appreciated Lord Steven Regal until his 2nd WWF run in 2000,always found his matches and style boring and felt he was overpushed even at the TV title level. Apparently he returned to WCW in 1999-2000 after his first disastrous WWF run but i have no memory of that whatsoever.
ReplyDelete"WARNING: Chris Benoit match ahead. After seven years, have we moved on yet?"
ReplyDeleteThat's some pretty strong bait, ya know.
/Don't care about what happened, just saying.
1. Go back to the brand extension formula where Smackdown has all the "B" wrestlers on it. Make the U.S.title exclusive to that with the World and IC belts being on Raw. So basically there would be three levels in WWE: NXT, Smackdown, and Raw.
ReplyDelete2. Let the wrestling announcers be wrestling announcers. Enough storytelling and shameless shilling.
3. Fix up all the superstar profiles on WWE.com. Did you know that Bret Hart won two Royal Rumbles and Mick Foley never held the ECW Tag Titles? Check out WWE.com to confirm.
No good. Flair/Steamboat was a fixed point in time. Even the Daleks wouldn't mess with that.
ReplyDelete1. Hire Gene Sapolsky to do the booking
ReplyDelete2. Recruit some wrestlers from SHIMMER to freshen up the Divas division.
3. Have the Big Four as PPVs, with the other eight months the Big Card being Network-only events.
Not THAT Doctor.
ReplyDeleteI think we are past the point of "WARNING CHRIS BENOIT MATCH AHEAD" but it'll never be a case of being over what he did. But I wish people would just stop with the huge warning of a Benoit match ahead. Use the match or not and let people decide if they want to watch it. Don't make a big production.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'm way past it. But my experiences here indicate that some people are still sensitive about it. The "warning" was sarcastic and toungue-in-cheek. I personally don't care if someone is overly sensitive to the use of murderers in their visual aids.
ReplyDeleteThe crowd shitting on this match pretty much ruined my life.
ReplyDeleteI'm not usually in favor of guys dogging it but I don't get why these guys went 110% in front of this crowd of douchebags.
ReplyDeleteAlthough this show was a perfect setting for Hogan's title win, the subsequent Road Wild shows were just awful and the whole idea of a free admission PPV at a biker rally is so idiotic that of course they did freaking four of them.
He couldn't take a vacation without dragging the entire company with him? He didn't have like, a phone and a laptop?
ReplyDeleteI think he was severely brain damaged and went literally criminally insane. I don't think it had anything to do with what kind of person he was when his mind worked.
ReplyDeleteOf course as soon as this happened everybody raced to tell stories that made him seem sinister and sadistic which was the exact opposite of his beloved reputation he held for years prior.
Eh, reasonable men can differ. He was a nightmare backstage, yeah, but he was also the best worker on the planet (I mean, has anyone EVER been better than Shawn form 94-98?), he was as over as anyone's ever been this side of Austin, and he'd already been a backstage prick for five years without killing the product.
ReplyDeleteAlso, as much of a dick as he was, *most* of the people he's alleged to have held down weren't major losses (Bam Bam excluded). Shane Douglas, for instance, really didn't deserve shit, and obviously guys like Bret and Rock did just fine in spite of Shawn's politicking.
Also also, not to go full Shawn apologist, but WM 14 booking aside, Austin's gone on record plenty of times talking about how Shawn really helped him early in his WWE career, so it's not like the guy was a total black hat.
Really, I think his dickishness would have been cancelled out by the absence of HHH's dickishness if and when he bolted to team up with Kev.
That's another issue WCW had, the were so worried about TV ratings but forgot how to build PPV's in various cases.
ReplyDeleteJesse had the greatest justification for Rude's attack: "He mighta called Rude a NAME!"
ReplyDeleteJesus, I can't believe it's been 7 years.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, while I don't feel negatively against anyone seeking out a Benoit match, I just wouldn't get any enjoyment out of it. The joy of watching him was not just the technical mastery, but the knowledge that he was a hard-working everyman who was able to succeed despite being held back by others.
Here's another question that just occurred to me: if it had just been Nancy, would you be inclined to be more forgiving?
1. Each show will be booked by a small team with a head booker, some combo of Heyman/Dutch/Hart/etc with young assistants learning from them.
ReplyDelete2. There will be a new focus on getting people to the arena.
3. All non-Cena wrestlers over 35 and announcers over ten years in will join the backstage team or exit stage left.
1. Get ex-wrestlers with an aptitude for booking to write the shows, instead of the Hollywood types they have now.
ReplyDelete2. No more heel authority figures. Just get Hogan to come out every so often for a big announcement.
3. Hire back Kaitlyn and have her writhe naked on my desk all day.
OK, seriously.....
3. Change up the announce teams. Give King an ambassadorial role. Keep Cole on RAW, but put him on with Regal. Philips and Renee do Smackdown, JBL becomes a manager, because I can't stand him for five hours a week anymore.
It's just you.
ReplyDeleteUh, that #3 sounds great. Maybe a nice headscissors every day at lunch.
ReplyDeleteI know it's been said before, but Dunn would be the first person I'd fire.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I'd happily give up one of the serious suggestions for the Kaitlyn option.
ReplyDeleteNow you two just made me think of when Vince got Stacy as an assistant.
ReplyDeleteWhich is the exact same problem WWE seems to have today.
ReplyDeleteI was always a fan of Henry Godwinn, so I'm 50% with you on the sentiment.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I can only stand watching Raw and Smackdown.
ReplyDeleteAfter seven years, have we moved on yet?
ReplyDeleteIs he still a child murderer?
Can one cease being a child murderer? It seems that once you go down that road, there is no going back.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder Vince won in the end. Bischoff took yearly vacations. Double Quad tears couldn't tear Vince away from his company.
ReplyDeleteThen the answer is no.
ReplyDeleteHe would have won it with a sharpshooter as well.
ReplyDeleteProbably a lot of stupid DX backstage stuff.
ReplyDeleteCan't believe it's been that long, feels just like yesterday when it happened.
ReplyDeleteSorry if this sounds like I'm deliberately undermining the point of the question... but 'one mission: fix what’s wrong with the company, and turn things around' kind of assumes that those enlightened folks at WWE think there's anything wrong with their business model in the first place.
ReplyDeleteUnscripted promos, less exposure by cutting back on TV, PPV's etc and rig up an elaborate stunt for John Cena to rappel to the ring from the rafters but tragically fall to his doom. Can't turn him, but you didn't say anything about bumping him off.
Yeah, I've moved on, never affected me to begn with.
ReplyDeleteYou have trouble watching WW2 footage of Hitler don't you?
ReplyDeleteThere goes one demographic.
ReplyDeleteWith the network now in place, I don't see #1 as being an issue. But I certainly do agree with the rest.
ReplyDelete1: Jobber matches. Build characters by having them squash some indie geek every week. They get to show off all their offense and get their character over without any 50/50 treadmill bullshit. Plus you can save money by paying the jobbers peanuts and only having one or two "real" matches on TV.
ReplyDelete2: Change the look. I'd ditch the big ramp and video wall. Go to an MSG style smaller tunnel entrance, and instead of pushing the live entrances so much, i'd have them cut to a video of some sort, so you get the effect of an entrance without doing it in the arena. And that way you can book slightly smaer arenas and make up the difference by not blocking off a quarter of the seats.
3: Goals. Every angle exists because both people have goals and they need to beat their opponent to achieve them. Titles, opportunities. I'd hype up the idea that the winner gets paid more, so that each match has more at stake. only when an angle calls for it do we then have personal issues be at stake. Every match has a logical conclusion when there's stakes involved.
1. Fire Kevin Dunn.
ReplyDelete2. Create a big fight atmosphere on the shows.
3. More fun gimmicks like the Wyatts.
Tear the whole thing down. Pick 4 or 5 guys and just start putting them over everyone and everything leading up to the Big Names.
ReplyDeleteNo title matches on free tv.
Plus they lost so much money by doing it for free.
ReplyDeleteI would also have those who have been with the company for 10-20 years to job to some fresher guys.
ReplyDeleteHe needs to step down.
ReplyDelete1- Make secondary titles and the midcard strong.
ReplyDelete2- Fire the current creative, put Heyman/Dusty/Dutch to book the shows.
3- Cut Superstars, Main event and Raw's third hour.
4- Book your babyface as human being with flaws, not a Superman.
5- Do KOTR leading to Summerslam and a G1 Climax style leading to Survivor Series. The winner gets a shot at the WWE title.
6- Put Regal and Renee in the commentary.
7- Build a female division, put WRESTLERS not models in the shows.
8-Cut the awful comedy and be more serious, build the matches as fights, just look at the build between Cena/Brock.
1. Foley & JBL commentate Raw.
ReplyDelete2. Create a steady weekly schedule for the WWE Network that includes lots "original content" that truly just making use of archived footage, such as "The Chronological Legacy of the Intercontinental Championship," Superstar's Fave 5's (Austin's Fave Attitude Era moments, Rock's Fave 5 Trash Talkers, Vince's Fave Five Manias, Bryan's Scientific Matches, Heyman's ECW moments, Jim Cornette's tag-teams, JR's Raw matches, HHH's NWA matches, Piper's Piper's Pits, Nash's NWO moments, Arn's Horsemen moments, etc.), the "Superstar ppv pick of the day," - a half hour show of current stars cutting blue screen promos to put over their current angles/matches, etc. etc.
3. Scale back appearances by the WWE champion on Raw & Smackdown, start giving the IC champ & tag champs title defense wins on television until the status of each belt is sufficiently elevated, to hopefully maintaining the prestige of weekly shows while simultaneously increasing the prestige of an appearance by the champion.
All these people posting that Dusty should get the book... not sure it's the best idea. Are we ready for Goldust or Stardust, new world champ? No? Good, because there would be Dusty finishes any time we're expecting a title change...
ReplyDeleteDusty Rhodes may be a better option than what we have now, but surely there are better wrestling minds out there available than the ol' Polka Dot Plumber.
Glancing over your third item, I thought you said to put Cole on with Regis Philben at first, and I was oddly OK with that idea.
ReplyDeleteI only watch Raw. And sometimes that's too much for me.
ReplyDeleteIt feels like much more than 15 years. But you have to remember that even when Cena and Orton won their first titles, they were still playing second banana to Triple H. I'd say Cena has been tippy-top for about 7-8 years, Orton probably about the same.
ReplyDelete... Three steps, not eight.
ReplyDeleteThe only issue I have with number one is, did you read Hardcore Diaries? His idea of a winning, out of the park story line wasn't really the best. even if it hadn't been meddled with. So, I don't know if he could really be effective on the creative side.
ReplyDeleteNow, mentoring talent, and helping them find a voice and communicate it in a personal way? He'd be up there on the top for that job.
Lots of suggestions that would never fly with concerns like stockholders, the USA network, etc.
ReplyDeleteThree that would:
1. Fire Kevin Dunn. The WWE's video production machine at this point is an autonomous beast that requires little to no one-man micromanaging, especially from a bigoted dipshit sexist who thinks his opinion about what he's in charge of recording properly matters.
2. Visual overhaul. Something. Anything. Think tank or focus group it. Just... No more weird color cubes surrounding the Titantron and video wall behind the wrestlers. Make it look new and fresh.
3. If champions are going to wrestle, it should only be for the title or sparingly in tag team matches. Hulk Hogan wasn't wrestling on every show in the 80s and when Shawn Michaels was IC champ, he didn't eat music distraction roll ups from every Jeff Jarrett and Owen Hart on the roster every time he was on TV.
1) Hire Judy Bagwell
ReplyDelete2) Place her on a pole
3) ????
4) Profit
I think that's why no one broke out during the new generation
ReplyDeletePlenty of people posted more than three.
ReplyDeleteIf they process the data smartly, like netflix does, they can overcome that. Netflix shows the star rating that they expect you to give based on the ratings assigned by similar viewers.
ReplyDeleteA small data analytics team (3-5 people) working on the data of 600K subscribers could pull out so much useful information. Combine that with data collected by Hulu for the Raw replay and they could have meaningful, concrete numbers for what segments/matches draw viewers for the current product. Why they don't use that instead of relying on Nielsen numbers, I don't understand.
I'm guessing they'll start running ads in the future. Hulu Plus does it and they also charge $9.99.
ReplyDeleteCena didn't play second banana to Triple H when he won his first title. Right around the time Cena was drafted to RAW, Trips took some time off, and when he returned he feuded with Flair and Big Show in feuds that got less focus than Cena's main event angles.
ReplyDelete1. Fire all the writers/re-assign Stephanie to a division that has nothing to do with the on air product.
ReplyDelete2. Overhaul TV/PPV. Cut the shows to just Raw and Smackdown. Raw is a 2 hour live show and Smackdown is a taped jobber/recap show. Cut the PPV lineup to 6 and make them PPV exclusive. Rumble, WM, MITB, Survivor Series, SummerSlam and one tbd. The remaining 6 would be Network exclusive live Clash style specials.
3. Change the in-ring product and presentation. Very few in ring promos, 2 man booth at ringside calls the action, 4 man panel analyzes matches and feuds in between matches near the stage. UFC Countdown style video packages hype big matches like we saw on Raw. Way less goofy gimmicks. Treat it like a legit sport. Ring style would be a mix of WWE style and ROH style.
I'm sure Shawn/Bret was discussed, and was an option, and may have even been the plan at one point, but it was never confirmed and even in Bret's book it sounds like him vs Shawn was what he wanted to happen and not necessarily what Vince was planning on.
ReplyDeleteThe ONLY downside I can foresee is what would happen if a WWE contracted wrestler gets hurt while in a territory. Other than that.. it's a sound plan.. it also would help make wrestling popular on a grassroots level. Truthfully it's in the WWE's best interests to keep the Indie stars coming in.
ReplyDeleteIt's a good story -- but I find both UT/Shawn matches on the sloppy side work wise. Most of the value in the match comes from the booking and if you have the warm and fuzzies for the Shawn comeback storyline.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, I think both guys put up their best efforts considering their limitations -- but it's not anywhere near a match like Steamboat/Savage which has a great story and flawless execution at a high degree of difficultly.
I would add the Hart Foundation to that list, but your point is bang-on. Austin and Pillman complimented each other in every single way.
ReplyDeleteThat line and how crestfallen he was about the Blondes being broken up. He wasn't nearly as good as he was in his WWF run, but Jesse still brought the goods from time to time.
ReplyDeleteNick Dinsmore's line about how "Missy has sucked off so many of the boys, she spits out somas".
ReplyDeleteI don't know I thought the whole thing was fantastic. Their first encounter was definitely one of those matches that stole the show in such a way that anything that followed was going to fall flat.
ReplyDeleteThing about Shawn 2.0 is no one was more surprised about how good he'd be than I was. I thought for sure without being able to do the more gimmicky type matches that I had really known him more for during his first run that he would be a complete failure. Really outside of the ladder match with Jericho (which I thought was good) most of his matches that stood out for me were straight up wrestling matches.
It might not make sense, and excuse this late hour, but when I always compared him and Bret I always thought Bret was better at straight up wrestling matches, where Shawn was better at the gimmick matches. What Shawn 2.0 did for me was show he was great at the straight up wrestling matches too. Obviously of course because he kind of had to be.