Well...seems he was even more unhappy than he seemed. No great loss IMO...he just couldn't connect with the audience now matter what they tried with him.
I think he was headed out when his contract expired anyway, but a shame it ends this way. Super talented guy who just couldn't find a connection to the audience.
Also surprising that this was after Mistico was released. Otherwise, I think we'd know what happened.
This is from Wikipedia so take it for what it's worth(aka nothing)
On the 7th of August WWE.com announced that Alberto Del Rio has been released due to unprofessional conduct and an altercation with fellow employee The Miz after The Miz made a remark about Del Rio's recent ring work.
It must have been really, really bad. With Ricardo gone, Alberto was really the only Hispanic they had left who could cut a promo. (I'm looking at you, ReyRey.)
Very true. It didn't help that creative kept plugging him into matches with other Latino talent like Rey and Sin Cara. Those matches were done to death.
It was kinda all over for him after that, wasn't it? He couldn't buy heel heat at that point, his face turn was lazy and rote and by the time he turned heel again, people had written him off.
Just did a little research and it seems Flair did refuse to put Luger over for various reasons, like waiting for Sting to come back from his injury, contract negotiations, etc., but none of the reasons sounded personal. I suppose it's possible that Flair didn't want to put over Bret for similar reasons. Maybe he was still holding out for a big match with Hogan and didn't want to look weak, or maybe at that point he knew he was going back to WCW and didn't want to job out to someone who wasn't considered a top guy, I'm not sure.
Luger has said repeatedly that he and Flair didn't have heat. Flair just wanted to be champ and Luger did not care either way. Luger just wanted his money.
To be fair to Bollea (I'm not sure why), the guy *could* work. I've seen matches of his that aren't half bad. He worked a low impact style that kept him in peak physical condition at all times, and it worked out great for him - low risk, high reward.
So much meme material here, but at least he is always interesting. I get the feeling if the net were here in this form back in 92, Bret would be here duking it out with commenters
It's this bullshit Generation Y ideal that you have to be modest and self deprecating at all times. It leads to REALLY douchey attitudes like humble bragging. I agree...Hitman was a 10/10 and a hero to me in my youth. I look back on watching him in the ring with yes, tears in my eyes.
True but Bret only worked with Hogan a handful of times. I believe he only worked with Hogan in a tag team match or two while in the WWF and probably not many more times in WCW when Hogan was past his peak. So Bret really doesn't have much to go on when judging Hogan as a worker.
I never really felt like Flair had bad matches with Bret. Especially their Souled Out 98 match...disappointing, maybe, but bad. ..not at all. Flair was also fighting some kind of inner ear thing at the time giving him bad vertigo.
I have no idea why in the world they just did the title change at a Superstars taping with no build or anything instead of just dropping a PPV in the fall somewhere to hype it a bit. I guess it was sort of the political climate being where you had to sneak the title onto the guy like a thief in the night.
Kobe talked about this a few months ago. He basically said no one wants to hear how a top athlete really thinks and just wants to hear the usual humble guy stuff. He also agreed that the greats have to have that kind of ego to truly be great.
Coming back to WWE was probably a really good thing for him, at least in the sense that he seems to have let a lot of his anger go. Now, if only he could bury the hatchet with Flair.
"Bret then mentions that yesterday a guy named Frank who served him coffee at Starbucks told him he was going to watch his match against Mr.Perfect that night because it's his favourite match."
I'll never get how they haven't managed to make that work yet. What's scarier and more legit than an ex con? Nailz was fiercely scary to me when i was young.
Brilliant. Think about how DIFFERENT wrestling was in 1996 compared to 1986. It's insane to think how much change occurred in such a short period of time. And then compare 2014 to 2004 and it's pretty much the same thing except some of the talent is no longer with us. Many of us knew even as far back as the early days of the WCW "Invasion" that stagnation and lack of competition was going to do tremendous harm. It's incredibly frustrating because if even one person is thinking out of the box in Stamford, things could change for the better very quickly.
Most pro wrestlers are peculiar. But the tendency for internet fans to diagnose Bret with all manner of personality disorders has gotten completely ridiculous.
"Obsessive numbering" He's frequently asked his opinion on other wrestlers or matches and finds that ranking on a scale of 1 to 10 is the best way of clarifying his opinion. How on earth is that obsessive numbering? You may as well diagnose Scott as autistic due to his star rating system.
"Lack of empathy/self-awareness" His autobiography contains numerous references to feeling guilty and conflicted over his womanizing, as well as numerous occasions where he specifically sympathises with particular wrestlers for all sorts of reasons. Did we read the same book?
Furthermore, he's always conceded he wasn't great on the mike, couldn't fill Hogans shoes etc. He does tend to be overly defensive about his career, but that's hardly the same thing.
"Monotone voice" I wouldn't say monotone actually. He's quietly spoken and dosen't tend to display a lot of emotion, so do millions of people all over the world who don't have Aspergers. In of itself It means SFO.
I'm not trying to have a go at you or anything, but like I said earlier it's just getting silly.
Cornette had the best take on it- if Bret had just said "I hate Shawn Michaels I want him to die in a fire blah blah blah and I'll NEVER drop the strap to him" then it probably would've been better received. When you hear other guys back then talk about it they usually seem to sympathize with Bret re: Shawn, but can't accept the "won't lose in Canada" part.
Bret wouldn't have been the first champion leaving a company to refuse to drop the belt to a specific guy, and most guys would probably understand given his issues with Shawn.
Personally I would have done Flair/Bret at the Rumble. Flair loses then Perfect wins the Rumble match later in the night then the next night on Raw, a desperate Flair wants another shot at the gold so he agrees to put his career on the line in exchange for Hennig's WM9 title shot.
The weird thing is that Bret rarely ever beat main eventers with the sharpshooter. He won the majority of his big matches with fluky rollup finishes and Bret seemed happy beating guys like that because it made his opponents look good and added more drama to the match because it could end at any time.
The most damning one is probably these from Spring and Summer 1990:
March 1990 - Meltzer reports that Flair is supposed to drop the title to Luger in Chicago, but refuses to do so. Flair wants to negotiate a contract extension with a provision in his contract that explicitly states that he can go to work for the WWF without a non-compete period if he agrees to drop the title.
June 1990:
- Meltzer reports that Jim Herd refused to give Flair the unconditional release clause as part of his extension, but instead both sides agree that if a contract extension hadn't been agreed to by a certain date (not stated, but he later speculates this date was shortly before the GAB 1991 show) that either side can terminate with a written notice of 30 days.
Yeah, I was thinking of his Japanese oeuvre. His match with Muta is a great example.
However, even some of his work in the US is decent. WM 5, 6 and 7 are all decent Hogan bouts - and it wasn't his opponent who was doing all the legwork.
The Hulkamaniacs wanted to see the Hulk Up, the big boot and the legdrop. It's that simple.
Want a strange "What if" scenario? Apparently when the WWF decided to go small and the steroid stuff dried up the business they looked overseas. Thy were deciding between the Canadian Bret Hart and .... Tito Santana! According to a couple of shoots Tito has done, the El Matador gimmick was created to repackage him.
Not sure if that is true or not ... but man, WWF Champion Tito Santana?
What year and what country are we talking about? Pre-WM3 Hogan could Go. He was big and could move fast and he had a great big man offense as he should have.
Exactly. Another thing that pissed Hart off was all the expose the business stuff. I remember reading an interview with him (think it was WCW magazine) where he laid down in brutal terms how fucking stupid and damaging advertising the matches were rigged was - and he foresaw a time when wrestling would need to go 'shoot' in-ring, but no one would buy it. He was bang on the money.
Ding dong the overrated witch is dead!
ReplyDeleteWell...seems he was even more unhappy than he seemed. No great loss IMO...he just couldn't connect with the audience now matter what they tried with him.
ReplyDeleteHooray!
ReplyDeleteI think the responsible thing to do here is speculate wildly. Any guesses????
ReplyDeleteWell at least Dolph Ziggler won't be jobbing to him anymore.
ReplyDeleteVince molested him.
ReplyDeleteHe beat up the recently released timekeeper Mark Yeaton. ADR was released for bullying. Yeaton was released for not defending himself.
ReplyDeleteLet me guess, he called someone a "perro" one too many times?
ReplyDeleteI guess this release was just his DESTINY!
He is a guy TNA should pick up, assuming they are still alive when his no compete expires.
ReplyDeleteIn the wild world of wrestling, this doesn't sound THAT far fetched.
ReplyDeleteHe lost it on a network support person on the phone because his subscription was cancelled before his 6 months was up.
ReplyDeleteTook a hostage to get Riccardo rehired.
ReplyDeleteGave El Torito a swirly ?
ReplyDelete"What is Rio Alberto doing in the Impact Zone, Taz?!?!"
ReplyDeleteWhat is Alberto Rodriguez doing in the Impact Zone?
ReplyDeleteA few people on the blog have confetti and kazoos prepared for this.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely dumb move by Del Rio. He probably had good job security with how depleted the roster is and makes way more than he's worth.
"What's Humberto Del Monte doing in the Impact Zone driving an '06 Miata?!"
ReplyDeleteThey'll probably just call him Dos Caras Jr anyway.
ReplyDeleteEh, I don't think he was happy and was just riding out the days until his contract was up. Now, the WWE has no Latino talent, right?
ReplyDeleteI think he was headed out when his contract expired anyway, but a shame it ends this way. Super talented guy who just couldn't find a connection to the audience.
ReplyDeleteAlso surprising that this was after Mistico was released. Otherwise, I think we'd know what happened.
He had sex with Stephanie MacMahon when she was 17 (allegedly)
ReplyDelete"We have a new principal owner of Impact!"
ReplyDeleteYeah, I never really felt a connection to Del Rio. They really cut him off at the knees by not having him beat Edge at WrestleMania.
ReplyDeleteRey Mysterio! Sin Cara! LOL!
ReplyDeleteNo, this is probably why they're fast-tracking Kalisto.
Unmotivated Del Rio sucked, but let's not forget the dude was really good when he wanted to be. Creative has fucked him more than most.
ReplyDeleteHe Eiffel towered Linda McMahon with Ricardo. That's the altercation.
ReplyDeleteWHAT'S ALBERTO RODIRIGUEZ DOING IN THE HAMMERSTEIN BALLROOM?!
ReplyDeleteFailed to pick sufficient Avocados for Vince?
ReplyDeleteThis is from Wikipedia so take it for what it's worth(aka nothing)
ReplyDeleteOn the 7th of August WWE.com announced that Alberto Del Rio has been released due to unprofessional conduct and an altercation with fellow employee The Miz after The Miz made a remark about Del Rio's recent ring work.
Well, there goes my idea of having him as the centerpiece of a new Four Horsemen...
ReplyDeleteIt must have been really, really bad. With Ricardo gone, Alberto was really the only Hispanic they had left who could cut a promo. (I'm looking at you, ReyRey.)
ReplyDeleteVery true. It didn't help that creative kept plugging him into matches with other Latino talent like Rey and Sin Cara. Those matches were done to death.
ReplyDeleteIt was kinda all over for him after that, wasn't it? He couldn't buy heel heat at that point, his face turn was lazy and rote and by the time he turned heel again, people had written him off.
ReplyDeletePlease welcome Roberto DeNiro to the Impact Zone.
ReplyDeleteKalisto will be on the roster faster than expected I guess.
ReplyDeleteYou know who is really excited about this news? Dolph Ziggler! He never could beat that guy!
ReplyDeleteFor The Miz, it was all....PART OF THE PLAN
ReplyDelete10-15 months ago, I bet.
ReplyDeleteYeah, he's got a Buick-sized ego. Just very self-involved.
ReplyDeleteJust did a little research and it seems Flair did refuse to put Luger over for various reasons, like waiting for Sting to come back from his injury, contract negotiations, etc., but none of the reasons sounded personal. I suppose it's possible that Flair didn't want to put over Bret for similar reasons. Maybe he was still holding out for a big match with Hogan and didn't want to look weak, or maybe at that point he knew he was going back to WCW and didn't want to job out to someone who wasn't considered a top guy, I'm not sure.
ReplyDeleteShook it, but too firmly.
ReplyDeleteBut what did Mr. Fuji do???
ReplyDeleteLuger has said repeatedly that he and Flair didn't have heat. Flair just wanted to be champ and Luger did not care either way. Luger just wanted his money.
ReplyDeleteWonder if there was some backstage stuff related to his being busted open the other day.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair to Bollea (I'm not sure why), the guy *could* work. I've seen matches of his that aren't half bad. He worked a low impact style that kept him in peak physical condition at all times, and it worked out great for him - low risk, high reward.
ReplyDelete5/10 is a fair assessment of Hogan as a worker.
ReplyDeleteSo much meme material here, but at least he is always interesting. I get the feeling if the net were here in this form back in 92, Bret would be here duking it out with commenters
ReplyDeleteI would have loved to have seen Hogan go up against the Mr. Backlund character. What a missed opportunity,
ReplyDeleteIt's this bullshit Generation Y ideal that you have to be modest and self deprecating at all times. It leads to REALLY douchey attitudes like humble bragging. I agree...Hitman was a 10/10 and a hero to me in my youth. I look back on watching him in the ring with yes, tears in my eyes.
ReplyDeleteTrue but Bret only worked with Hogan a handful of times. I believe he only worked with Hogan in a tag team match or two while in the WWF and probably not many more times in WCW when Hogan was past his peak. So Bret really doesn't have much to go on when judging Hogan as a worker.
ReplyDeleteHe was monotonous loooooooong before the stroke.
ReplyDeleteI never really felt like Flair had bad matches with Bret. Especially their Souled Out 98 match...disappointing, maybe, but bad. ..not at all. Flair was also fighting some kind of inner ear thing at the time giving him bad vertigo.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea why in the world they just did the title change at a Superstars taping with no build or anything instead of just dropping a PPV in the fall somewhere to hype it a bit. I guess it was sort of the political climate being where you had to sneak the title onto the guy like a thief in the night.
Wrestling skanks do more stuff.
ReplyDeleteHow Zayn isn't on the main roster yet is fucking baffling.
ReplyDeleteBret isn't as angry now.
ReplyDeleteKobe talked about this a few months ago. He basically said no one wants to hear how a top athlete really thinks and just wants to hear the usual humble guy stuff. He also agreed that the greats have to have that kind of ego to truly be great.
ReplyDeleteI seriously doubt it. Most of the "signs" you mentioned are exaggerated by smarks for the express purposes of taking potshots at him.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, I'm starting to sour on Cheap Heat. They tend to defend the WWE at every turn, annoying so.
ReplyDeleteComing back to WWE was probably a really good thing for him, at least in the sense that he seems to have let a lot of his anger go. Now, if only he could bury the hatchet with Flair.
ReplyDeleteYep, and I'm okay with that assessment. He's an average worker who gets by with a LOT of charisma and presence.
ReplyDeleteHe'd be commenting on his youtube videos.
ReplyDelete"THAT'S BULLSHIT! EVERYONE IN THE GODDAMN DRESSING ROOM TOLD ME THIS MATCH WAS A CLASSIC!"
In his book he said he refused to drop it to Luger because he was saving it for Sting.
ReplyDeleteBret Hart has the greatest case of Aspergers of all time.
ReplyDeleteBecause of that dirty rotten Aspergers.
ReplyDeleteI can't listen to Cheap Heat - I find Shoemaker's co-host intolerable.
ReplyDeleteBret would never have stopped being one of the boys.
ReplyDeleteI never really understood how anyone could reasonably justify him refusing to drop the title. There's just no professional reason not to go it.
ReplyDelete"Bret then mentions that yesterday a guy named Frank who served him coffee at Starbucks told him he was going to watch his match against Mr.Perfect that night because it's his favourite match."
ReplyDeleteNow I'm wishing the internet was here in the 90s. Him complaining about star ratings on random websites would be the greatest.
ReplyDeleteJust imagine the whiny facebook status about Shawn Michaels.
ReplyDeleteHave you not heard his promos / read his book / read or seen this shoot? What is not factual there?
ReplyDeleteFWIW, I'm not a Hart basher, i think he's one of the all time greats. He's just a peculiar dude.
I'm confused.
ReplyDeleteI'll never get how they haven't managed to make that work yet. What's scarier and more legit than an ex con? Nailz was fiercely scary to me when i was young.
ReplyDeleteWell, from what I can tell, they're genuine fans, and they're not overly critical; which is fine.
ReplyDeleteBrilliant. Think about how DIFFERENT wrestling was in 1996 compared to 1986. It's insane to think how much change occurred in such a short period of time. And then compare 2014 to 2004 and it's pretty much the same thing except some of the talent is no longer with us. Many of us knew even as far back as the early days of the WCW "Invasion" that stagnation and lack of competition was going to do tremendous harm. It's incredibly frustrating because if even one person is thinking out of the box in Stamford, things could change for the better very quickly.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Absolutely no reason for them not to do anything with them this week (unless I missed it. I don't watch ME or SD).
ReplyDeleteI dig their entrance. When is the last time anybody had an intimidating entrance outside of the Undertaker and HHH's self-circle jerk?
ReplyDeleteShawn stole my idea. FEELING IRRITATED
ReplyDeleteI've seen Hogan go in Japan. He held a LOT of shit back for the WWF American audience. He understood his audience and milked it for all it was worth.
ReplyDeleteMost pro wrestlers are peculiar. But the tendency for internet fans to diagnose Bret with all manner of personality disorders has gotten completely ridiculous.
ReplyDelete"Obsessive numbering"
He's frequently asked his opinion on other wrestlers or matches and finds that ranking on a scale of 1 to 10 is the best way of clarifying his opinion. How on earth is that obsessive numbering? You may as well diagnose Scott as autistic due to his star rating system.
"Lack of empathy/self-awareness"
His autobiography contains numerous references to feeling guilty and conflicted over his womanizing, as well as numerous occasions where he specifically sympathises with particular wrestlers for all sorts of reasons. Did we read the same book?
Furthermore, he's always conceded he wasn't great on the mike, couldn't fill Hogans shoes etc. He does tend to be overly defensive about his career, but that's hardly the same thing.
"Monotone voice"
I wouldn't say monotone actually. He's quietly spoken and dosen't tend to display a lot of emotion, so do millions of people all over the world who don't have Aspergers. In of itself It means SFO.
I'm not trying to have a go at you or anything, but like I said earlier it's just getting silly.
Fair enough. I just see enough minor signs tjat i question. He probably doesn't have it. Backlund i would bet does, from what i hear.
ReplyDeleteMr Backlund is definitely a peculiar man.
ReplyDeleteCornette had the best take on it- if Bret had just said "I hate Shawn Michaels I want him to die in a fire blah blah blah and I'll NEVER drop the strap to him" then it probably would've been better received. When you hear other guys back then talk about it they usually seem to sympathize with Bret re: Shawn, but can't accept the "won't lose in Canada" part.
ReplyDeleteBret wouldn't have been the first champion leaving a company to refuse to drop the belt to a specific guy, and most guys would probably understand given his issues with Shawn.
that el dandy is one jam up guy!
ReplyDeletePersonally I would have done Flair/Bret at the Rumble. Flair loses then Perfect wins the Rumble match later in the night then the next night on Raw, a desperate Flair wants another shot at the gold so he agrees to put his career on the line in exchange for Hennig's WM9 title shot.
ReplyDeleteThe weird thing is that Bret rarely ever beat main eventers with the sharpshooter. He won the majority of his big matches with fluky rollup finishes and Bret seemed happy beating guys like that because it made his opponents look good and added more drama to the match because it could end at any time.
ReplyDelete"Any good road stories" followed by "What is the greatest rib you have seen"
ReplyDeleteThey've feuded in the ring and backstage, all they need is a Facebook feud to cap it off!
ReplyDelete"Shawn Michaels Likes Jesus, Visine, and Chippendales"
The most damning one is probably these from Spring and Summer 1990:
ReplyDeleteMarch 1990
- Meltzer reports that Flair is supposed to drop the title to Luger in Chicago, but refuses to do so. Flair wants to negotiate a contract extension with a provision in his contract that explicitly states that he can go to work for the WWF without a non-compete period if he agrees to drop the title.
June 1990:
- Meltzer reports that Jim Herd refused to give Flair the unconditional release clause as part of his extension, but instead both sides agree that if a contract extension hadn't been agreed to by a certain date (not stated, but he later speculates this date was shortly before the GAB 1991 show) that either side can terminate with a written notice of 30 days.
Yeah, I was thinking of his Japanese oeuvre. His match with Muta is a great example.
ReplyDeleteHowever, even some of his work in the US is decent. WM 5, 6 and 7 are all decent Hogan bouts - and it wasn't his opponent who was doing all the legwork.
The Hulkamaniacs wanted to see the Hulk Up, the big boot and the legdrop. It's that simple.
His post about Shawn not jobbing to him at WM13 would end the internet.
ReplyDeleteWant a strange "What if" scenario? Apparently when the WWF decided to go small and the steroid stuff dried up the business they looked overseas. Thy were deciding between the Canadian Bret Hart and .... Tito Santana! According to a couple of shoots Tito has done, the El Matador gimmick was created to repackage him.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if that is true or not ... but man, WWF Champion Tito Santana?
What year and what country are we talking about? Pre-WM3 Hogan could Go. He was big and could move fast and he had a great big man offense as he should have.
ReplyDeleteCheck his wild brawl with Stan Hansen. Awesome.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Another thing that pissed Hart off was all the expose the business stuff. I remember reading an interview with him (think it was WCW magazine) where he laid down in brutal terms how fucking stupid and damaging advertising the matches were rigged was - and he foresaw a time when wrestling would need to go 'shoot' in-ring, but no one would buy it. He was bang on the money.
ReplyDelete