Today's Question: With the untimely passing of Robin Williams, having met his untimely demise, today's question is: Of all the comedians that are no longer with us, whose comedy do you consider the greatest?
Yesterday's Question: Side note time: You ever have someone at work you just don't like....and you don't know why????? They've done nothing to you, but for some unknown reason, they just rub you the wrong way - and you don't like them at all. I have one of those (but I'm working on it), and I figured I would try to relate that to the blog......with that in mind, I just have to ask, because I have seen it discussed on the blog a few times, but there was never really one consensus answer. There is really no right/wrong answers, but I am dying to know 2 things in regards to..........Shane Douglas:
a) What is your lasting memory of Shane Douglas (or the first thing that comes to mind)?
b) What in the world has he done in the wrestling business (as you see it) that is worthy of soooo much hatred?
greaterpower99: The thing that comes to mind with Douglas isn't anything he did in the ring (average-to-good worker and talker, never anyone I especially WANTED to see), rather it's an interview he gave to Power Slam in early '96 following his failed run as Dean Douglas.
He claims that he mostly went to WWE to pay for medical school, predicts failure for new signing Mankind, calls McMahons basic integrity into question, and naturally, goes to town on the clique. It's the same spiel about the clique that every wrestler who failed to get over in 94-95 invariably rattles off, but it was the first I'd even heard of the term. He also aired, may even have been the first, the rumour that HHH ingratiated himself with the clique by carrying their bags.
Not earthshattering by today's standards, but in '96 a bit of an eye-opener.
Actually, while we're on the subject of Douglas, has anyone on here seen his "legendary" 60 minute draw with Tully Blanchard? Is it as bad as its reputation suggests?
I've seen about 45 minutes of it....and yes. They would have been better off sticking to 20-30 minutes. Lots of restholds, and old-school heel spots that didnt work in the 90s. Tully himself even admits it sucked. I'm guessing this was all part of his Flair obsession.
damaverickridesagain: On the subject of Shane Douglas: three thoughts come to mind
1. On the subject of burying the NWA back in '94, yes it launched ECW into the upper level but lets be serious for a moment, if he didn't win the belt, whoever did might had done it as well.
2. Despite what most people think, yes the Dean Douglas gimmick did suck, but he could had easily gone to WCW and have five star matches with Pillman, Malenko, Benoit, and a soon to be debuting Jericho. hell if Flair and him hated each other so much, why not have the match five years earlier? money can make people forgot a lot if it means we are getting richer
3. Overall the best period for me for Shane would have to be his tag team with Bagwell during WCW 2000, He was the perfect tag partner, not completely exposed but he could have you believe that he was capable of better things
BTW: the hottest woman for me in ECW would have to be a composite of Woman, Beulah, and Lita.
First of all, Dawn Marie could get it before any of those three.....secondly, I'd have to agree with you on the Bagwell thing: for a brief minute, it looked like their team had life....then Buff had to go and get himself suspended.
jabroniville: The first thing I think of with Douglas is all those whiny-ass interviews calling out Ric Flair. Retrospect paints that as basically desperately-linking himself to a more successful wrestler in order to get heat. Then I think of all Douglas' promos- mediocre, swear-filled nothing. People only paid attention to them because he was one of the first guys to drop F-bombs regularly.
He was also drastically overpushed in ECW. He was at-best an okay worker, and yet was booked to go in 25-minute "classics" that were in reality just overly-long and dull as shit, especially since his finisher was a Belly-To-Belly Suplex in an era of chairshots and Tornado DDTS through tables.
There's one thing that comes to mind in regards to his hate for Flair: Around 95 or 96, ECW TV had an hourlong episode, and the first 30 minutes consisted of Douglas ranting and raving about how much he hates Ric Flair, and the question the entire world wants answered: "yes, Ric Flair - I hate your guts" being the payoff. Paul E. is a genius (Sidenote: The new DVD is AMAZING) but I really have to question why he let Shane Douglas spend half his show getting Ric Flair over as their lead heel.
THE YETAAAAY: 1) The thing I think of most is a few weeks after he broke Pitbull 1's neck, Gary Wolfe tried to get in the ring and Douglas shook his surgical halo and threw him to the ground. It was the most genuine heel heat I've ever seen someone get in the ECW arena.
2) He compares himself to legends way too much.
I wrestled with Ric Flair. I knew Ric Flair. Ric Flair was a friend of mine. Mr. Douglas, you're no Ric Flair.
I think I really started to dislike him at the one ECW PPV when he was supposedly injured but still had a match with Al Snow and he went on that ridiculous self-blowjob rant about how people would be telling their grandkids about the time they saw Shane Douglas wrestling with a busted arm.
I remember the entire locker room hoisting both men on their shoulders......and the following week, Al Snow and Head Was putting over Brian Christopher and Scotty 2 Hotty on RAW. Tells you all you need to know.
BooBoo1782: Oddly enough, my most vivid memories of Shane are from his bouncing babyface era. I came along too late for the Dynamic Dudes, but I remember his brief early 90s WWF run (highlighted by a longer-than-you'd-expect stay in the '91 Rumble and those ugly peach-pink tights) and his move to WCW in '92 as Ricky Steamboat's new partner. I know that his best work came later, but that's what sticks in my memory from my own viewing experiences.
As for why everyone hates him...I think it's largely because he blames just about everyone but himself for his failures - Flair, the Kliq, etc. - when he really was never THAT good. Yes, he was a solid worker, but there was never anything about him that screamed "future World Champion" to me, and yet my perception is that he goes on like he was supposed to be a an Austin-Rock level star.
Jason Clark: a) Agree on NWA title toss down. Probably the most memorable promo of his career and the touchstone of his entire ECW run.
b) I've wondered if there isn't a worked shoot element of his ego. It really rubs wrestling fans outside of ECW the wrong way, and I'd say it has defined the IWC's take on him. I don't recall anyone calling Charles Wright a dick for stealing Undertaker's urn, but we seem to take shoot comments on Ric Flair as being the actual opinion of the person making them. It could just be that Troy Martin has an ego and that Shane Douglas is just that ego turned up to 11.
Mike_N: I don't hate Shane, but it's not hard to see where the hate comes from.
If you're that bitter and you talk that much shit, you'll end up in a very bad place unless:
a.) it gets you ridiculously over. (see Punk, CM)
b.) it's part of an angle with a clear payoff. (see Austin, Steve)
c.) you come out on top in the long run.
None of those three ever really came through for Shane. Flair and Shawn keep making money IN THIS BUSINESS, though I'm pretty sure Shane wouldn't trade bank statements with Flair right now.
The Fuj:
A. Him throwing down the NWA belt in 94 is his legacy IMO.
B. Its his over-inflated sense of self-worth that has drawn the ire of most. I haven't seen a 1v1 match with Shane that I would call good. Alot of his multi-mans or tags have been great. His promos in early ECW were so against the grain and not cookie cutter, but once everybody started following suit, there were people who did it better than him. He parlayed an ECW tenure where he was pushed as the flag-bearer into a dismal WWF run and when he couldnt cut it, he went back to ECW where he could be the big fish in a small pond. That was his problem as well. He always thought he should have been bigger thn what he was. If he had the talent, he would have shed the Dean DOuglas gimmick once the AE started for something more comtemparary. He just bitched about his run and left before shit got hot in NY. It was just piss poor timing because he could have the wave in NY and been something. I mean Val Venis and Rikishi got over, he would have gotten over. He just bitched and moaned about it.
By the time he got to WCW, he was too pilled up and injury riddled to be worth anything.
Fuj, I think you summed it up succintly as usual.
The unfortunate part is that Shane Douglas actually was a decent (not exceptional) worker, but in this entire blog, did anybody mention the Triple Threat? He, Benoit, and Malenko as a faction whould have been one of the great ones, but that isnt his legacy. People remember him for all the whining about Flair. Well, there's that, and his throwing up in the ring in TNA.......
Yesterday's Question: Side note time: You ever have someone at work you just don't like....and you don't know why????? They've done nothing to you, but for some unknown reason, they just rub you the wrong way - and you don't like them at all. I have one of those (but I'm working on it), and I figured I would try to relate that to the blog......with that in mind, I just have to ask, because I have seen it discussed on the blog a few times, but there was never really one consensus answer. There is really no right/wrong answers, but I am dying to know 2 things in regards to..........Shane Douglas:
a) What is your lasting memory of Shane Douglas (or the first thing that comes to mind)?
b) What in the world has he done in the wrestling business (as you see it) that is worthy of soooo much hatred?
greaterpower99: The thing that comes to mind with Douglas isn't anything he did in the ring (average-to-good worker and talker, never anyone I especially WANTED to see), rather it's an interview he gave to Power Slam in early '96 following his failed run as Dean Douglas.
He claims that he mostly went to WWE to pay for medical school, predicts failure for new signing Mankind, calls McMahons basic integrity into question, and naturally, goes to town on the clique. It's the same spiel about the clique that every wrestler who failed to get over in 94-95 invariably rattles off, but it was the first I'd even heard of the term. He also aired, may even have been the first, the rumour that HHH ingratiated himself with the clique by carrying their bags.
Not earthshattering by today's standards, but in '96 a bit of an eye-opener.
Actually, while we're on the subject of Douglas, has anyone on here seen his "legendary" 60 minute draw with Tully Blanchard? Is it as bad as its reputation suggests?
I've seen about 45 minutes of it....and yes. They would have been better off sticking to 20-30 minutes. Lots of restholds, and old-school heel spots that didnt work in the 90s. Tully himself even admits it sucked. I'm guessing this was all part of his Flair obsession.
damaverickridesagain: On the subject of Shane Douglas: three thoughts come to mind
1. On the subject of burying the NWA back in '94, yes it launched ECW into the upper level but lets be serious for a moment, if he didn't win the belt, whoever did might had done it as well.
2. Despite what most people think, yes the Dean Douglas gimmick did suck, but he could had easily gone to WCW and have five star matches with Pillman, Malenko, Benoit, and a soon to be debuting Jericho. hell if Flair and him hated each other so much, why not have the match five years earlier? money can make people forgot a lot if it means we are getting richer
3. Overall the best period for me for Shane would have to be his tag team with Bagwell during WCW 2000, He was the perfect tag partner, not completely exposed but he could have you believe that he was capable of better things
BTW: the hottest woman for me in ECW would have to be a composite of Woman, Beulah, and Lita.
First of all, Dawn Marie could get it before any of those three.....secondly, I'd have to agree with you on the Bagwell thing: for a brief minute, it looked like their team had life....then Buff had to go and get himself suspended.
jabroniville: The first thing I think of with Douglas is all those whiny-ass interviews calling out Ric Flair. Retrospect paints that as basically desperately-linking himself to a more successful wrestler in order to get heat. Then I think of all Douglas' promos- mediocre, swear-filled nothing. People only paid attention to them because he was one of the first guys to drop F-bombs regularly.
He was also drastically overpushed in ECW. He was at-best an okay worker, and yet was booked to go in 25-minute "classics" that were in reality just overly-long and dull as shit, especially since his finisher was a Belly-To-Belly Suplex in an era of chairshots and Tornado DDTS through tables.
There's one thing that comes to mind in regards to his hate for Flair: Around 95 or 96, ECW TV had an hourlong episode, and the first 30 minutes consisted of Douglas ranting and raving about how much he hates Ric Flair, and the question the entire world wants answered: "yes, Ric Flair - I hate your guts" being the payoff. Paul E. is a genius (Sidenote: The new DVD is AMAZING) but I really have to question why he let Shane Douglas spend half his show getting Ric Flair over as their lead heel.
THE YETAAAAY: 1) The thing I think of most is a few weeks after he broke Pitbull 1's neck, Gary Wolfe tried to get in the ring and Douglas shook his surgical halo and threw him to the ground. It was the most genuine heel heat I've ever seen someone get in the ECW arena.
2) He compares himself to legends way too much.
I wrestled with Ric Flair. I knew Ric Flair. Ric Flair was a friend of mine. Mr. Douglas, you're no Ric Flair.
I think I really started to dislike him at the one ECW PPV when he was supposedly injured but still had a match with Al Snow and he went on that ridiculous self-blowjob rant about how people would be telling their grandkids about the time they saw Shane Douglas wrestling with a busted arm.
I remember the entire locker room hoisting both men on their shoulders......and the following week, Al Snow and Head Was putting over Brian Christopher and Scotty 2 Hotty on RAW. Tells you all you need to know.
BooBoo1782: Oddly enough, my most vivid memories of Shane are from his bouncing babyface era. I came along too late for the Dynamic Dudes, but I remember his brief early 90s WWF run (highlighted by a longer-than-you'd-expect stay in the '91 Rumble and those ugly peach-pink tights) and his move to WCW in '92 as Ricky Steamboat's new partner. I know that his best work came later, but that's what sticks in my memory from my own viewing experiences.
As for why everyone hates him...I think it's largely because he blames just about everyone but himself for his failures - Flair, the Kliq, etc. - when he really was never THAT good. Yes, he was a solid worker, but there was never anything about him that screamed "future World Champion" to me, and yet my perception is that he goes on like he was supposed to be a an Austin-Rock level star.
Jason Clark: a) Agree on NWA title toss down. Probably the most memorable promo of his career and the touchstone of his entire ECW run.
b) I've wondered if there isn't a worked shoot element of his ego. It really rubs wrestling fans outside of ECW the wrong way, and I'd say it has defined the IWC's take on him. I don't recall anyone calling Charles Wright a dick for stealing Undertaker's urn, but we seem to take shoot comments on Ric Flair as being the actual opinion of the person making them. It could just be that Troy Martin has an ego and that Shane Douglas is just that ego turned up to 11.
Mike_N: I don't hate Shane, but it's not hard to see where the hate comes from.
If you're that bitter and you talk that much shit, you'll end up in a very bad place unless:
a.) it gets you ridiculously over. (see Punk, CM)
b.) it's part of an angle with a clear payoff. (see Austin, Steve)
c.) you come out on top in the long run.
None of those three ever really came through for Shane. Flair and Shawn keep making money IN THIS BUSINESS, though I'm pretty sure Shane wouldn't trade bank statements with Flair right now.
The Fuj:
A. Him throwing down the NWA belt in 94 is his legacy IMO.
B. Its his over-inflated sense of self-worth that has drawn the ire of most. I haven't seen a 1v1 match with Shane that I would call good. Alot of his multi-mans or tags have been great. His promos in early ECW were so against the grain and not cookie cutter, but once everybody started following suit, there were people who did it better than him. He parlayed an ECW tenure where he was pushed as the flag-bearer into a dismal WWF run and when he couldnt cut it, he went back to ECW where he could be the big fish in a small pond. That was his problem as well. He always thought he should have been bigger thn what he was. If he had the talent, he would have shed the Dean DOuglas gimmick once the AE started for something more comtemparary. He just bitched about his run and left before shit got hot in NY. It was just piss poor timing because he could have the wave in NY and been something. I mean Val Venis and Rikishi got over, he would have gotten over. He just bitched and moaned about it.
By the time he got to WCW, he was too pilled up and injury riddled to be worth anything.
Fuj, I think you summed it up succintly as usual.
The unfortunate part is that Shane Douglas actually was a decent (not exceptional) worker, but in this entire blog, did anybody mention the Triple Threat? He, Benoit, and Malenko as a faction whould have been one of the great ones, but that isnt his legacy. People remember him for all the whining about Flair. Well, there's that, and his throwing up in the ring in TNA.......
Chris Farley. His later movies weren't anything special (I'm looking at YOU, Beverly Hills Ninja and Almost Heroes), but his SNL run defined the early 90's IMHO. I've also watched Tommy Boy and Black Sheep more times than I care to count. It's just so sad that he couldn't see himself for how his fans viewed him: a comedic genius.
ReplyDeleteStill can't believe it's been 17 years...
1. Bill Hicks.
ReplyDelete...
500. Still Bill Hicks.
And a great amount of love for John Pinette, who passed away this year. His comedy may have been retelling the same joke over and over- "Hey- I'm a fat guy!"- but damn, he was really good at it.
Chris Farley for me, too. Maybe not a guy who did ground-breaking stuff like Hicks and Carlin but man I grew up on Tommy Boy and his SNL skits and they just made me laugh all the time. Tommy Boy is one of those movies that I will stop what i'm doing to watch if its on. Miss that guy.
ReplyDeleteTo me, Hicks wasn't so much a comedian as he was an idealist, in that, in most cases... he was right.
ReplyDeleteFarley was the first celebrity death that hit me hard. I loved the guy as a kid and watched Tommy Boy religiously. I was 12 when he died and it really shocked me.
ReplyDeleteHedberg. Easily Hedberg. Best that ever did it. A true genius. The combination of originality, sense of humor, and delivery. Dude could be sitting in a living room, and just start pointing out why the coasters are like lawn furniture or some other waaaaaay out-of-left-field analogy and it would all make sense and be the funniest shit you ever heard despite the fact it had no business being completely hilarious.
ReplyDeleteDarren X: you could've included at least one Douglas apologist.
ReplyDeleteGeorge Carlin, greatest comedian ever.
ReplyDeleteLucille Ball. I lLove Lucy is one of my top five favorite shows.
ReplyDeleteI have a feeling that in a couple of years, I can add Bill Cosby to the list. He looks rough these days, yet he's still funny.
Though I love Bill Hicks' rants and how ahead of his time he was, even in his personal life (his story about being a 30 year old man checking out Sonic The Hedgehog and Porno from the video store putting him in the realm of a creep, now video games and porn are the mainstream) - as some have pointed out he was a bit more in the realm of a political performance artist than a comic. He sadly predicted our political and intellectual decline. The "readin'" bit pretty much sums it up.
ReplyDeleteI would still say Richard Pryor is the best answer to this. He was "taken away" by his illness years before he died, and before that by a terrible, ill advised misadventure into mostly bad films. Pryor really got both down the soul bearing, personal side of comedy while being fucking hilarious. That he turned his very public incident with being caught on fire freebasing into one of the funniest routines of all time shows his depth and really exposes current comics outside of some of the more special talents like Louis CK and Patton Oswalt for how shallow they really are.
Phil Hartman and Chris Farley. Comic geniuses.
ReplyDeleteThey aren't easy hard to find!
ReplyDeleteGeorge Carlin by a mile. The guy re-invented himself twice. Version 1 was a silly person who appealed to the "establishment", version 2 was a hippie who rebelled to be interesting, version 3 was a deeply thoughtful entertainer who pointed out societies flaws.
ReplyDeleteHe was a person who remained relevant in comedy right up to the day he died at 71, and his style and craftsmanship served as a template for so many comics and entertainers today like Louis CK, Lewis Black, Adam Corolla, etc. Just watch "It's Bad For Ya" from 2008 and he came across as fresh and thoughtful as anyone working today, then consider his career started about 50 years before that performance.
Lenny Bruce, and I think that anyone who knows his work would have the same answer.
ReplyDeleteCarlin, Groucho and Jonathan Winters are the only people who could come close
Chris Farley. That's probably because of the time of his death, I was 10 years old and was a huge fan of Tommy Boy. I actually still love Tommy Boy and I watch it anytime I see it on.
ReplyDeletebtw - comedians and comedic actors aren't really the same thing.
ReplyDeletenow that you mention it Phil Hartman could be mine. So much range and GREAT as a voiceover. Friggin wife with a gun.
ReplyDeleteRichard Pryor. Yeah some of his final roles were bad but his influence is still prevalent today. He also turned some very embarrassing public incidents into great routines.
ReplyDeleteI know he's still alive so he doesn't fit into the question, but if you haven't heard much of Steven Wright's material you should. I loved Mitch, and knew him a little bit, but Wright was doing the same type of stuff better and a decade or so earlier
ReplyDeleteRichard Pryor, George Carlin, Sam Kinison. All brilliant comedians who revolutionized stand up.
ReplyDeleteJack Fuckin Benny
ReplyDeletePatrice O'Neal. That was probably the funniest motherfucker in history. He is sorely missed and he died right in the prime of his career.
ReplyDeleteAlso Phil Hartman. He was the man
ReplyDeleteProbably my favorite SNL guy ever. Definitely my favorite bit player on the Simpsons and also the best character on news radio, a show full of hysterical characters.
ReplyDeleteBob Monkhouse. Greatest English comic ever.
ReplyDeleteAnother troubled soul who ended his own life, Richard Jeni - His bit about Jaws III is an all-time classic.
ReplyDeleteFatty Ardbuckle might not have been the best comic but he was a helluva rapist and had an all time funny name.
ReplyDeleteHartman was my #2 choice. The first 9 seasons or so of The Simpsons ensured that his legacy would live on with me forever.
ReplyDeleteBy all accounts he didn't ever rape her.
ReplyDeleteI didn't realize Shane Douglas was the originator of "blame it on the Clique".
ReplyDeleteThat should be his legacy.
Rode 3,000 skateboards. Never drew a dime.
ReplyDeleteHedberg and Wright are similar, but there's a real difference. Wright seems to know that he's confounding his audience and loves it. Hedberg...there's a nervousness to his work, as if he's genuinely frightened that the audience will catch on to the joke and booed him, so in response he's self-medicated so that he can get through it.
ReplyDeleteWhich, in retrospect, might be somewhat close to the truth. (I have no idea how deep Hedberg's problems were.)
Pudding Pops aren't good for the heart, y'know.
ReplyDeleteStop it! I'm right here!
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Carlin was the man, and it isn't even close.
ReplyDeleteFreddie Prinze Sr. -- Wasn't dirty in his routine. Parlayed his comedy into a sitcom. Went nuts on booze and drugs and shot himself in the midst of still working on a top level sitcom.
ReplyDeleteBuster Keaton was a genius. Laurel and Hardy were great too. And Shemp. Shemp was the best of all the Stooges.
ReplyDeleteDude...
ReplyDeleteI never heard of him until he died. I was in my friend's studio and he was mixing music and while on some down time, he told me about Mitch Hedberg.
We sat and listened to him for about 20 minutes and i was hooked. Hilarious.
Who is no longer with us?
ReplyDeleteBernie Mac: The KING of Comedy.
He was a fucking genius at observational humor. He could take anything and make it hilarious.
Richard Pryor.
ReplyDeleteThere were a few dirty comedians I liked before I was saved, but I can't list them due to their routines being nothing but filth. I don't think the late Jay Hickman ever did a clean show while Ron White has, and even John Foxx did and they have primary been dirty comedians. I loved Prior at one point, but feel more touched now by his Africa visit he talked about in Sunset Strip in 1982. A African asked Prior, "Do you see any n-words?" Prior says no. "That's because there aren't any." Prior vowed never to say the n-word again and I don't think he did. I'm a white guy, and visiting Africa humbled me - so I can feel Richard there.
ReplyDeleteHe may have been even funnier when he flopped, and the crowd would play along. Hedberg doing an entire routine of jokes that aren't well thought out as he made them up on the fly, and then hilariously apologizing is just as strong as his good shit.
ReplyDelete"See, I'mma improve that joke. I'mma take all the words out and replace them with new words".
Guy said to me, "This is a picture of me when I was younger". EVERY picture of you is when you were younger.
ReplyDeleteWright is a legend who many people STILL don't know about. He is even funnier in a conversational setting. He's been a semi-regular on Craig Ferguson's show and he's hit a home run almost every time. They've reached this dynamic no where Ferg tries to make Wright crack instead of the other way around. YouTube can be a mess at times, but being able to seek out old routines and appearances on there is definitely awesome.
ReplyDeleteI think Mitch Hedberg is the best answer but I'm torn between him and Patrice O'neal. With Patrice it was rough because i knew him from TV but i hadn't really seen much of his stand up, then after he had already died i saw Elephant in the Room and heard Mr. P and was totally blown away, and then it just sunk in that other than some YT rips from Opie & Anthony and Tough Crowd, that was all I'd ever really get.
ReplyDeleteHe did seem vulnerable on stage. I think that was intentionally part of his persona . In real life he didn't strike me as an insecure guy. He knew how good he was and how respected he was by his peers.
ReplyDeleteNo one who does stand up as long and as well as he did if they're frightened of the crowd. There are easier ways to make money.
Most comics are insecure about most everything else in their lives, EXCEPT their talent. They know they're good - even the ones who aren't.
He would have had a drug problem no matter what his job was. Comedy sorta enables people with drug problems, but the problem would have been there regardless
They weren't made up on the fly, he was just good enough to make it seem that way.
ReplyDeleteVery, very, very, very little material is ever created on the stage by any comic.
I have a love/hate relationship with Cosby. He was a riot, but his agenda about cowboy movies threw me off.
ReplyDeleteIf you can deliver the most devastatingly beautiful and hilarious punchline with just a facial expression, not saying a word, based on the very character you've cradled from vaudeville to radio to TV, you are a Hall of Famer. Jack Benny did just that.
ReplyDeleteDon't quote Richard Pryor if you're afraid to say the word "nigger". It's insulting.
ReplyDeleteI kind of forget he died. Part of me keeps wondering when they'll do an Ocean's Fourteen and then... oh... shit.
ReplyDeleteThe Nancy Benoit of comedy.
ReplyDeleteI'm just gonna say it, I love Bill Hicks, and even though he claimed it, I still don't see how Denis Leary supposedly ripped him off.
ReplyDeleteAnother vote here for Bill Hicks. His stand-up special "Revelations" is still one of the top 3 stand-up performances of all time to me.
ReplyDelete(Insert mandatory rant hating Denis Leary for stealing his material)
Dude would spew lines that he had not created punchlines for. We're not talking about a routine like Louis CK or Gabriel Iglasias.. It's Mitch Hedberg, he'd make a joke and then try and tell the same joke a second time using different objects to see if it worked, and if it didn't he'd just be like "I don't know what I was going for there.. We're gonna edit that one out."
ReplyDeleteThief: Your money or your life!
ReplyDeleteBenny: .......
Crowd: (crowd explodes with laughter)
Patrice O'Neal was awesome! (Bonus points for - briefly - being a writer for Monday Night RAW)
ReplyDeleteAnd he did that exact same thing in the show before that and the show after that
ReplyDeleteCount me in, Shemp was my favorite.
ReplyDeleteThere's a ton of shit he's only said once. I've heard hours of the dude, bootlegs and all.. I'm not doing the back-and-forth message board shit with you buddy, that's not my lane. Enjoy your day..
ReplyDeleteRichard Pryor himself said he was wrong to say that word. Besides, I am a white person and I know better to say that word -- even out of context.
ReplyDeleteI like the Lenny Bruce-Vaughn Meader is fucked! story.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever opened for him?
ReplyDeleteJonathan Winters is a good one. No Robin Williams without Winters.
ReplyDeleteTroll elsewhere, son..
ReplyDeletedidn't think so - enjoy your bootlegs
ReplyDeleteI would highly suggest the O&A podcast, a few months ago they did two full hours of Patrice's best riffs on the show, some tremendous improv stuff there, I believe it's still in the free section.
ReplyDeleteTalking about the same thing != ripping off.
ReplyDeleteAlso, EVERY comedian makes the "Keith Richards does a lot of drugs" joke, even Robin Williams.
George Carlin. His rant on baseball was hilarious
ReplyDeleteFor me this conversation begins and ends with Sam.
ReplyDeleteThe man was a lightning bolt wrapped in flesh, no one was as funny, as quick, or as surprising as Sam Kinison. "Go to where the food is" is one of the funniest bits of all time as far as I'm concerned. The tragedy is that when he was killed in a car wreck he had allegedly been sober for quite some time and was finally getting his life together, had he remained alive we never would have heard of Lewis Black.
HM's to Hedberg and especially Patrice O'Neal, there are hours and hours and hours of YouTube videos up of Patrice on the O&A show where he talks, by himself basically, for entire hours at a clip and it never for a second stops being uproariously funny.
I think black people are smart enough to understand that the word is only offensive when linked with offensive ideas. Assuming that they aren't able to understand intent and context seems more racist that just saying a "naughty" word.
ReplyDeleteI think Richard Pryor is the greatest comedian ever. He could just kill it every time.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but Robin had a pretty big rep as a joke thief. He was the Late 70's/80's Carlos Mencia
ReplyDeleteYou mean I don't sound like a grown adult if I say "Bicentennial N-Word"?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, I love how scared people are.
Version 4 continues on the internet, with any bit of ironic observational humor falsely attributed to him.
ReplyDeleteHedberg did not, even a little bit, seem like an improv guy to me.
ReplyDeleteActually more so than some others he seemed like a comic who prepared every single syllable for maximum effect, I'd imagine one has to when half of one's jokes are only about eight or ten words long.
Sam Kinison chiding Aerosmith on getting sober is the best "The Toxic Twins? Yeah real Toxic. What are you guys going to go do, tear down a salad bar?"
ReplyDeleteDo I have to pick one? I guess Mitch Hedberg influenced my style most, but Patrice hit me super hard. I also really loved Richard Jeni's HBO special.
ReplyDeleteDitto on Shemp.
ReplyDeleteSam Kinison, John Candy, George Carlin.
ReplyDeletePryor, Carlin, Williams and Farley are probably on my Mt. Rushmore of comedians who are no longer with us (I wasn't a big fan of Sam Kinison, as he passed when I was six years old and I never really went back to see his routine. John Candy is another one that I really enjoyed, but I'd also give Johnny Carson some love. There's no one that will ever touch what he pulled off on the Tonight Show for so many years, and I think he's a bit underrated on his own merits as a comedian. Rodney Dangerfield should also get some props as well.
ReplyDeleteThis woman came up to me and said "Mac", I said "yeah". She said, "can I ask you a question?" and I said "yeah, go ahead". She said, "Does pussy taste like pumpkin pie?" I said "don't ever ask me no shit like that!......I AIN'T NEVER HAD NO PUMPKIN PIE!"
ReplyDeleteKICK IT!!
ReplyDeleteGreatest short-standup set ever,
I feel like "Hicks wasn't a comic he was a _____" has become an internet trope and I don't agree with it at all. Why does commenting on society and politics make someone not a comic? Or yelling or being angry? The guy talked into a microphone on a stage and did monologues that included jokes and were intended to induce laughter while pointing out the absurdities that he found in society... that's definitely stand-up comedy.
ReplyDeleteHow does that contradict being a comedian?
ReplyDeleteHicks was the guy that people say Dennis Leary stole from right?
ReplyDeleteYeah, the story has always been that Leary lifted his act for his first special. I'm not sure why, Leary's stuff wasn't very political.
ReplyDeleteHow is he trolling? The guy seems to have a pretty unique (among people on this forum) level of insight into this topic.
ReplyDeletePryor and Carlin are my all-time two favorites hands down. Pryor was the saddest since MS robbed him of the ability to do standup in his last days. Carlin was able to perform up until the week before he died.
ReplyDeleteI was also a big fan of Robin Harris & Bernie Mac.. two Chicago comedians with the ability to make people laugh without even telling jokes. Very similar styles and even thought Bernie achieved greater success, they both died way too soon.
Mitch Hedberg was gone way too soon. Everything he did before his death was hilarious, still listen to his comedy albums fairly often. Lost way too soon.
ReplyDeleteI love Mitch Hedberg. Glad to see all the love for him.
ReplyDeleteYes. Although it's a bit harsh, because a lot of Leary's material of the time is very original. But they were digging from the same goldmine.
ReplyDeleteLook it up on YT, there's a side by side comparison of some stuff Leary bit from him. Leary stole from lots of people, even ones as random as Drew Carey. There's a reason he hasn't done a new standup special since 97.
ReplyDeleteBut Hicks was uniformly awesome. When asked why he quit smoking, he said "I wanted to see if Denis would too."
The Marx Brothers. Pure anarchy, destroyed conventions, fantastic banter and humor, just pure wild insanity that deserves to be remembered.
ReplyDeleteWhile not my all-time favorite, Lenny Bruce should get some recognition. Like with Carlin, I don't find myself laughing at his humor for minutes at a time but I feel incredibly educated by it. Bruce did a shitload for free speech in this country as far as entertainers are concerned.
ReplyDeleteAs for Carlin, the shelf-life for anyone in a mass-marketed medium is growing smaller by the day. With the overexposure of internet, social media, tabloids and television, the general public is growing tired of entertainers much more rapidly. That's why I think a guy like Carlin will never come along again, who can evolve and adapt for over two generations.
"The internet will be falsely attributing quotes to me for eternity." - Mark Twain
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of it is the "ha-ha, I'm smoking! Fuck you!" kind of stuff- Hicks would laugh while blowing smoke on the audience, and criticized rules against it.
ReplyDeleteGreg Giraldo for me. Dude's standup was really funny, and he absolutely killed it on every Comedy Central roast he appeared on.
ReplyDeleteJust because you have a lame finisher doesn't mean you can't have a great match. I agree Shane's were dull, and I never understood what was so great about him - I was just talking about this a few days ago. I imagined many felt the same way, and indeed they do, it seems.
ReplyDeleteCan't stand by the whole "every wrestler, complaining about the clique, cause they didn't get over, etc."... the clique did hurt careers - and this is coming from someone who's top 3 faves include Shawn Michaels. I can't think of anyone I believe could get over an evil teacher, and in the small window of time he was given, AND with all the jobs he did. I know being a contrarian is fun and all, but c'mon.
Oh, and as for comedians... I've never been huge into stand up, but anytime I watch Dave Chappelle I'm practically in tears ("bitch, I live in a fucking trash can!" *did* induce tears). Definitely my favorite, out of those I watched. I love Robin Williams and was CRUSHED by his passing, but for many other reasons - I've seen little of his stand up.
ReplyDeleteHe was the king of those.
ReplyDeleteThief: I said your money or-
ReplyDeleteBenny: I'M THINKING IT OVER!
Seconded.
ReplyDeletePeter Cook
ReplyDeleteBill Hicks
John Candy, as a comedic actor he was almost peerless.
Madeleine Khan, likewise.
There's a few more that I miss that had a good innings but Rik Mayell had more in him.
ReplyDeleteAnd Dermot Morgan
ReplyDeleteHope someone already mentioned Patrice O'Neil. Dude was hilarious in standup, roasts, and as a regular on Opie and Anthony. Loved the guy.
ReplyDeleteIt happened just a few months ago: Rik Mayall. I don't know if The Young Ones, The New Statesman or Bottom (his best known roles) were ever widely shown in North America, but they made an indelible mark on me as a teenager.
ReplyDeleteLucille Ball, George Burns, and Bob Hope. I'd throw in Mel Blanc if cartoon voices count.
ReplyDeleteI WANT TO BE SAFE AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteYou need to see Mother, Juggs, and Speed. That was his best adult act ever.
ReplyDeleteThe Chippendales skit with Patrick Swayze.
ReplyDeletePryor, Carlin, and Hicks are all amazing, but they died of natural causes. The guy that should still be here but isn't is Mitch Hedberg; funny as hell.
ReplyDeleteThey will fix that joke in postproduction.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the almighty will swing a trade...you give us Kinison and Pryor, we will gladly give you Dane Cook and Kevin Hart.
ReplyDeleteDave Chappelle is very much alive.
ReplyDeleteHow did Robin Williams killing himself within the last 24 hours CRUSH you?
You don't understand.......
ReplyDelete"I know better to say that word -- even out of context"
ReplyDelete...just means you're scared shitless by your own middle class white guilt. Richard Pryor said 'nigger'. Prolifically. The fact that he came to regret it later is neither here nor there.
Hicks, Pryor, Carlin.
ReplyDeleteReading down the thread there are lots of decent suggestions but those three were transformative comedians and should be remembered as much more than men who stood up and made you laugh.
Where is all the Rik Mayall love coming from on this thread? He was a really one-dimensional comedian and, by all accounts, a thoroughly dislikeable guy. I grew up with The Young Ones, Filthy Rich and Catflap and Bottom and he's essentially the same limited character for fifteen years.
ReplyDeleteI listen to the comedy channel on Pandora and Hedberg comes on alot. It seems like half of it is him talking meekly and the other half was the opposite...more bombastic and confident. What was the deal with that? Just playing a character?
ReplyDeleteDane Cook AND Kevin Hart? Nah f*** that....God bless Sam, but both of them are funnier than Sam Kinison.
ReplyDeleteI ain't SCARED of you mutha f*ckas
ReplyDeleteI don't necessarily disagree about the characters being very similar. But speaking for myself he played them with such a mad, hilarious intensity and fantastic chemistry with Ade Edmonson, that it just didn't matter.
ReplyDeleteDennis Miller.
ReplyDeleteYes, I know he's not dead, but his career in being funny is.
I'd hold his prime up against any legend, and you'll never find anybody as cerebral and witty as him. He doesn't get nearly the right amount of recognition.
Great set, although George would want his tag-team partner Gracie Allen back with him.
ReplyDeleteMost of my favorites have been mentioned already: Buster Keaton, Groucho Marx, Lucille Ball, Jack Benny, and Richard Pryor were all one-of-a-kind and irreplaceable.
ReplyDeleteI'm picking one that hasn't been said, though, and who died too young, and was also the only one of him there ever was: Jim Henson.
John Candy was the first celebrity death that bummed me out. Knowing I'd never see him in anything new sucked. I was a huge fan of Camp Candy, and Cool Runnings was one of my favorite movies at the time. Farley, though... fuck. The man was hilarious in every role he was in, and he brought life to so many different scenes. Think back to that one SNL skit of three valley girls sitting around in the mall food court. Everyone is in character, but suddenly Farley snaps and growls about one of the girls touching his food. Instant gold. Of course, that wasn't even in his top 10 as far as SNL went. Remember the first Matt Foley, Motivational Speaker skit? Sure, sometimes a cast member corpses, but when everyone else in the scene can't keep a straight face? You know you're special then. I loved that man... he gave me so much joy.
ReplyDeleteCarlin was a big one... he was the first stand-up comedian I liked, but you kind of knew it was coming sometime soon, so there was no major shock, unlike, say, Bill Hicks. I never knew how innovative and ballsy he was until recently, and I admire the hell out of him for it.
The one I actually cried over (I never understood crying over a celebrity death until it happened to me... doof) was Mitch Hedberg. It might have something to do with the fact that I met him, who knows. For the record, he was one cool, down to Earth motherfucker. I am a total pirate, but as soon as I heard him, I went out and bought everything he put out, from Strategic Grilling Locations to the CD/DVD combo of Mitch All Together. Nearly every single joke he told is quotable and there must be hundreds of them floating around in my brain, ready to tell at any given second. I've retold many a Hedberg joke, and they always, fucking ALWAYS, make people smile. That man was a genius, pure and simple. Sometimes I think he needed to die for people to sit up and take notice of that. Other times I feel like he was starting to gain traction and people were realizing what a talent he was. I don't know.
That's fair enough - he was fun to watch, but I just don't see him as a great comedian I guess. More good at what he did.
ReplyDeleteI was slightly disappointed to grow up liking him only to later find out that he was apparently not a very nice chap.
Chris Farley. ("Fat Guy in a Little Coat" )
ReplyDeleteGlad you mentioned him -- Loved him -- He apparently performed his entire sets with his eyes shut so he could feel the audience's reactions -- Don't know why, but I always found that to be awesome...
ReplyDelete