The Netcop Rant for Spring Stampede 2000
Funny story: I called to order the show on Friday afternoon, but the automated phone system wouldn’t allow me to complete the order. (By this time the cable company had switched to digital cable and we could no longer watch PPVs by less-than-legitimate means, which meant that I was back to ordering them again after a fairly long break from spending hundreds of dollars a month on wrestling shows. Given my lack of wife, though, it’s not like I had anything better to spend my paycheques on anyway.) So I called Shaw Cable’s customer service and explained the problem, and not only was the show spelled wrong in their database (“WCW Sprint Stampede”) but the Sunday show wasn’t even listed in the computer, only the Tuesday replay! The funny part? They hadn’t caught the problem yet because I was the only one to that point who actually wanted to order the show. (Not surprising given the buyrate. Basically after Kevin Sullivan was fired, Bischoff and Russo were put in charge of the promotion and immediately went on Nitro and stripped all the champions of their titles, coming right out and declaring a reboot of the entirety of WCW because the previous version had sucked so bad. I’m sure that made everyone who had been watching up until that point feel terrific. This show is the tournament finals for all the belts, because in Vince Russo’s world TOURNAMENTS ARE AWESOME. )
- Live from Chicago, IL
- Your hosts are Tony, Mark and Scott
- Opening match: The Mamalukes v. Lex Luger & Ric Flair. Vince “Iron Man” Russo declares that it’ll be a 4-on-2 match instead, sticking the Harris brothers on the Italian side. Pretty much a mindless brawl all the way through with a few highspots from Hugger, until Flair manages to fight off three guys, leaving Luger in the ring to rack Hugger at 6:11 and advance to the finals of the tag title tournament. Match was a total mess, but energetic if nothing else. *
- Mancow v. Jimmy Hart.
(Mancow was a Chicago DJ who was controversial or something.) This was about as good as you’d expect, which is to say not at all. Emery Hale, under whatever name he’s using this week, tries to interfere, but Mancow recovers and gets the pin on Hart at 2:49. (HALE WARNING! HALE WARNING! That guy made Ryback look like Goldberg.) What a waste of PPV time. -****
- The Wall v. Scott Steiner.
I’m hoping for one to cripple the other, but no such luck. Scott hammers him, but Wall comes back with a big boot and a legdrop. Ooo, Wall’s got his working boots on tonight. They fight to the floor, where Scott pokes him in the eye, thus blinding him so extensively that he mistakes a referee for Steiner and chokeslams him through a table for the DQ at 3:52. That’s a pretty vicious eye poke right there. Match was a total load. ½*
- Mike Awesome v. Ernest Miller.
Awesome was unveiled as the mysterious eighth entrant in the tournament earlier, then got into a brawl with Bam Bam Bigelow. So as a result, Bigelow decides to punk out Miller pre-match and take his place. Oh god, now they’re stealing Paul Heyman’s BAD ideas, too. Awesome puts Bigelow on the floor and hits the tope con hilo pretty quick, then they brawl. Back in, Awesome hits a nice diving clothesline. Bigelow falls on top to block a backdrop suplex for two. And now the Cat is back out and he kicks Bigelow right out of the ring. And dances. Man, I was actually into that match, too. Awesome destroys Miller and pins him after the frog splash at 4:01. *1/2 I *really* don’t get the logic of that booking. (Perhaps some sort of booking seminar would be helpful to explain it.)
- Buff Bagwell & Shane Douglas v. Harlem Heat.
Amazingly, they’ve finally debuted that “Perfect Strangers” ripoff that Jimmy Hart was talking about months ago. Pretty much a total squash for the New Blood here, with Douglas finishing Stevie Ray with the Pittsburgh Plunge at 2:41 following heel miscommunication. ¼* (Shane actually tried to escape to the WWE along with the Radicalz, but they basically turned him down. I’ve always been amused at the notion of fiercely independent loose cannon Shane Douglas being forced to crawl back to WCW with no leverage, like someone swimming back to the Titanic because there’s nowhere else to go. That’s why burning your bridges on the way out is a BAD IDEA.)
- Booker v. Sting. (Oh yeah, this was during the period when they decided that the “T” was holding him back.) Trash talk to start, and Sting gets the advantage. Brawl to the floor, where Booker gets control, and we HIT THE CHINLOCK, BABEE. That lasts a while. Sting escapes but gets scissor kicked. Sting comes back with a Stinger splash, blocked with a sidekick, but he reverses a spinebuster into a deathdrop for the pin at 6:34. The announcers yell and scream about what a great match it was. I fervently beg to differ. *1/2 I believe this ended up being the only clean pin of the evening. (You know it’s Russo because there’s three different tournaments ongoing and none of the matches run more than 5 minutes or so.)
- Kidman v. Vampiro.
Vamp gets a couple of suplexes to start, then hits a missile dropkick for two. Kidman comes back with a rana, but gets powerbombed doing the 10 punches in the corner. Vampiro hits a pair of suplexes for two, and a chokeslam, but Kidman reverses the Nail in the Coffin with the facejam. Vampiro goes into the kick combo and an armbar, but Kidman counters with a DDT. And of course, now the Orange Goblin has to ruin a perfectly good match, as he comes out and destroys Kidman, tossing him outside and slamming him through the ringside table (well, after two tries at it), then throwing him back in for the Vampiro pin at 8:28. Horrible, horrible ending drags it way down. If it’s a quick Hogan interference I can live with it, but he beat on him for like three minutes. ** (Stone Cold Hulk Hogan! This was the infamous “flea market” feud between Kidman and Hogan that did nothing for either guy and in fact pretty much destroyed Kidman forever.)
- Hogan heads back to assert his manhood on Eric Bischoff in the dressing room, but Vince Russo calls the cops, and they pull their GUNS on him to back him down. (Hogan should have been all “Check out these guns, brother!” and then destroyed the entire police force with a POSEDOWN.) Oh, geez, do we have to go there again? Didn’t the fallout from Pillman’s gun act in the WWF teach anyone anything?
- Hardcore title: Norman Smiley v. Terry Funk.
They start in the catering room, where they go through the usual series of goofy food-related spots. (Vince Russo Booking = People hitting each other with food in hardcore matches. And tournaments. Sometimes both at once.) Sadly, that’s about all Terry can do anymore, so it’s for the best. Funny bit as they head into the hall and Norman climbs a heating pipe on the ceiling to try to hide. They head back to the ring, where Duh-stin interferes, but it backfires, and Funk drops a ladder on Smiley and pins him to win the Hardcore title at 8:03. Pretty entertaining crap, and I’d rather see Smiley lose here and move on to, say, ANYTHING ELSE than get stuck in that dead-end gimmick again. *** (This was pretty much it for Norman, actually. They never figured out how to use him properly again.)
- Scott Steiner v. Mike Awesome.
Steiner pounds on Awesome to start, but takes a flying shoulderblock and splash for two. Flying clothesline gets two. Steiner comes back with a belly-to-belly, but Awesome gets a springboard elbow out of the corner for two. Cue the run-in (or in this case, stroll-in), as Big Poochie breaks a crutch over Awesome and Steiner gets the submission with his deadly REAR CHINLOCK OF DOOM at 3:15. Next. ½* I didn’t go back and rewind, but I think I heard the announcers saying something about Steiner beating Sting to win the title at this point, which would be a pretty stupid mistake on their part if they said it.
- Vampiro v. Sting.
Slugfest to start. Sting over with some basic stuff and a flying splash for two. Out we go, with Sting missing a splash to the railing. Vamp superkicks him. Back in, Sting doesn’t seem to be cooperating when Vamp tries to set him up for top rope moves for some reason. Weird. Vamp goes up for something, but misses, and Sting hits the deathdrop and Scorpion deathlock for the submission at 5:57. Pretty boring match. Although I guess this was the SECOND clean finish of the night. *1/4
- Jobberweight title: Shannon Moore v. Crowbar v. Lash LeRoux v. Prince Iaukea v. Juventud Guerrera v. Chris Candido.
Candido & Crowbar start, with Chris getting a few two-counts. Lash & Juvy go next, with Juvy hitting the Juvy Driver for two. Daffney comes in with a “frankenscreamer”, but hits Crowbar with it by mistake. Lucky guy. Funny spot follows as Juvy goes after her, but she holds him at bay with the SCREAM OF DOOM. We hit the trainwreck spot rather early in the match, with every doing highspots on everyone else, leaving Candido and Prince alone in the ring. Iaukea goes for the jumping DDT, but Sunny the Crack Whore returns to wrestling and pushes him off, and Candido pins him at 5:14 to win the title. Good god, is she transporting more ECW defectors in her ass or is that just from Ben & Jerry’s ice cream? The match went nowhere, with no one really getting any time. *1/2 (Hey, let’s count all the people who either died or left the business altogether here!)
- WCW World tag title match: Ric Flair & Lex Luger v. Shane Douglas & Buff Bagwell.
May I just say, thank god Flair is wearing street clothes in the ring now. Stalling to start. Idiotic spot as Buff gets the advantage on Luger, then stops to pose. Shane yells at him to turn around, and when he does, Luger…poses. Oh god, someone tell him it’s not 1988. Douglas comes in and gets pummelled by Flair. Bagwell & Douglas work him over for a while, as we listen with rapt attention to the commentary stylings of Vince Russo. (The only thing worse than his booking would have to be his commentary. You’d think the guy who WROTE THE STORYLINES could make sense of them, but you’d be wrong.) Flair misses his own signature move – the Flair flip, and Luger gets the hot tag. Brawl leads to the figure-four on Douglas. Buff goes for the blockbuster, but hits Douglas by mistake. Flair goes for the pin, but Russo pulls out the ref at two and punks him out. Bryan Adams and Bryan Clark then run in, chokeslam Luger, and Bagwell pins him (with Russo making the count) to win the tag titles at 8:31. Awful match. And the Clark/Adams debut added nothing but another hotshot angle to an already overloaded show. ½* (I should note that Kronik then went on to win the tag titles from Buff & Shane soon after this, thus making this even more nonsensical.)
- US title match: Scott Steiner v. Sting.
Steiner tries power stuff, but Sting knocks him out and hits a pescado. Flying splash hits the knees, and Steiner takes over. He stops to yell at fans a few times. Sting comes back with the Stinger splash, bumping the ref. Vampiro pops up from under the ring, doing the Undertaker thing and dragging Sting “straight to hell” (it’s WCW, he’s already there…), which marks the second 96 WWF angle Vinnie Roo has ripped off from himself tonight, and Sting emerges with obvious fake blood on his face, falling easy prey to the chinlock for the submission at 5:32. (Talk about angle overload on this show. One clever idea is OK, but this show was angle after angle with no payoff for them.) Another bad match. ½* Nice to see that being a psychotic, roided, uncooperative, deteriorated, often-injured maniac results in getting put over three guys in one night to win the #2 belt in the company. Had he snapped and killed a fan at ringside, he’d probably be World champion. (Well, the World title would come later.)
- WCW World title: Jeff Jarrett v. DDP.
Yes, this is our main event, might as well accept it. DDP gets a lariat and atomic drop to start, and a DDT gets two. Jarrett bails and Page follows with a pescado. Brawl into the crowd, with a retarded ultra-wide angle shot. Back in, Jarrett gets a chair and works on DDP’s back. Page comes back with a powerbomb for two, and back to the floor. Bischoff joins us in the aisle, looking sinister. Jarrett rips up a copy of Page’s book, to really draw heat. His sales just went up by 15% if JJ bought that one. (This was back when I could freely mock others for low book sales.) Back in, slugfest, and we get the requisite ref bump after the Diamond Cutter. Jarrett nails DDP with the title belt and gets two. Jarrett hooks the figure-four as Bischoff comes to ringside. DDP escapes and cradles for two. DDP comes back with a uranage for two. Jarrett goes to the sleeper as the “boring” chants erupt. Bischoff distracts the ref as Kim comes in with Jarrett’s guitar. Gee, who do you think she’s going to hit with it? Especially since she’s taking her sweet time lining up that shot at Jarrett. Oh, gosh, what a huge swerve, she turns on her husband. Oh the irony. Oh the humanity. (Angle after angle after angle after angle after angle…) Jarrett hits the Stroke and gets the pin and his first World title at 15:02. Guess they convinced him to take that World title after all. ***1/4 (Basically Jarrett was offered the belt repeatedly and he kept turning them down because he didn’t want to be remembered as the guy who sunk the company.)
- The nW…er, New Blood all celebrate with their titles and their evil booker friends, end of show.
The Bottom Line: I can see where people might be fooled into liking this show by the manic pace and sheer number of angles, to the point where there was some huge development in EVERY MATCH, but I can’t excuse all the mediocre wrestling with bad finishes that went on here tonight. I mean, geez, maintaining a sense of urgency in the booking is one thing, but a good solid match once in a while would be a nice change of pace. And instead of having run-ins leading to a DQ, we get the DQ waived tonight and instead get run-ins leading to a screwy finish.
And seriously, they’re not even TRYING to hide what they’re doing with the New Blood – it’s the nWo yet again, this time in a different shirt.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Still, the show was entertaining enough for a thumbs in the middle, but that’s under the “throw enough shit at the wall and eventually something sticks” theory of booking, and I can’t foresee them maintaining that frenetic pace for long without the fans getting tired of it. Well, better this than Sullivan or Nash, I guess. (This booking killed the company for good, so I’d take Sullivan or Nash any day of the week and twice on Sunday instead of Ruschoff.)
This with Stampede '99 is a good place to bring up DDP's thoughts on his favorite subject - himself - and whether he'll ever be in he WWE HoF:
ReplyDelete"I think eventually it's got to happen. Nobody did what I did. Nobody was as over in the 90's. I was in the top five guys according to Pro Wrestling Illustrated. Nobody came from being a manager to being a color commentator. I think I earned that spot and eventually, I think I'll get it. I hope it's not 30 years from now, but until Randy Savage is in there, until Jake Roberts, until Rick Rude, I'm not in yet. I would think Randy's going to be in next year. I'd be surprised if he wasn't. But it would be the greatest bill ever to be inducted because it's in Jersey. It is what it is and when it happens it happens."
This show, which I actually paid for, was like Vince Russo on steroids and no filter. I sometimes wonder what goes through that dudes head to think this is watchable in the context of a wrestling show.
ReplyDeleteThis show was one in a long line of shows that were WAY too overloaded with matches. There were some shows that legitimately had at between 10 and 12 matches on them. A lot of times it's fun to go back and watch old shows that might have been crappy at the time but which have retained a certain charm, but this show is not one of them. I've tried to re-watch it plenty of times and just can't.
ReplyDelete(Basically Jarrett was offered the belt repeatedly and he kept turning them down because he didn’t want to be remembered as the guy who sunk the company.)
ReplyDeleteTOO LATE. (Althought, technically, he's remembered as ONE OF the guys that sunk the company. And he's like 5th or 6th on the list of guys that killed WCW.)
For the record, a well-booked wrestling tournament is awesome (see Deadly Game, for example) but "Vince Russo" and "good booking" go together like "Ted Nugent" and "not being a cockmonger".
While the Ruschoff era was pretty bad, I'd still take that over the Sullivan booking of Feb-Apr 2000 since Ruschoff did produce a few good segments, whereas there was nothing redeemable aboot the Sullivan booked era as it was really frustrating how the whole promotion basically reverted back to the 80s.
ReplyDelete"I sometimes wonder what goes through that dudes head to think this is watchable in the context of a wrestling show"
ReplyDeleteThat's why I think one of his booking seminars might be interesting. Just to hear what kind of thought process led to everything he's done since he left the WWF.
"I didn’t go back and rewind, but I think I heard the announcers saying
ReplyDeletesomething about Steiner beating Sting to win the title at this point,
which would be a pretty stupid mistake on their part if they said it."
The ring annoucer called Steiner the winner of the US title after he beat Awesome, leaving Tony to pick up the pieces: "Sting has something to say about that. And so does Vampiro."
Are we sure one of the D in DDP doesn't stand for delusional?
ReplyDeleteYou can tell you are deep into a Russo run era when no match except the main event gets any time at all.
ReplyDeleteWhen I saw Hogan come out with a black jacket like Austin that said FUNB on the back of it I knew WCW was pretty much finished. I didn't want WCW to be like WWF. WCW should have stayed WCW. A lot of fans like me felt that way and left the company and never looked back.
ReplyDeleteFor a reboot, at least by my count, at least they only had 4 belts #TNAwful
ReplyDeleteI don't think that can be stressed strongly enough. That period of Sullivan's booking was AWFUL. Even this inane junk looked good in comparison.
ReplyDeleteI am in the minority but I liked the reboot. WCW needed something to get people talking again. So I was okay with the maniac pace.
ReplyDeleteHOWEVER, they kept doing it and that's what killed it. If they just used this show as the launching pad for a million angles to work over the next couple of months, I think we would've looked at this differently.
It's kind of crazy that throughout all the sht WCW produced, they still ended up getting to a money Scott Steiner/Goldberg feud....before ruining that too.
To be fair, Russo DID book "Survivor Series 1998: Deadly Games", and (IMO, at least) it was fantastic.
ReplyDeleteToo bad he was never able to replicate anything like that.
Two questions:
ReplyDelete1) They didn't know how to properly use Norman Smiley. Was there even a proper way to use him? I never saw the value in him at all, aside from Santino-like comedy bits. Heh, okay, I'm suddenly picturing Santino doing his trumpet celebration along side the Big Wiggle. I think I just answered my own question.
2) What ever happened to Lash LeRoux? I remember many people were impressed by him back in the day.
I'll always give Russo credit for at least TRYING to keep things interesting by always adding new twists and wrinkles, as opposed to just letting the same two guys fight each other over and over again (Dolph/Kofi, for example) on a non-stop treadmill.
ReplyDeleteThat said, it's amazing that he never realized that his big idea of "Everybody turns on Everybody, All the Time (!)" would OBVIOUSLY lead to quickly diminishing returns.
Poor DDP gets dumped on so much. Come on, he's obviously more qualified than a number of guys that are already in (Drew Carey???), and he's outright saying that there are many others that should go in ahead of him.
ReplyDeleteNorman inexpicably made himself one of the most over faces on the ENTIRE roster. So they put him in hardcore matches. The dude was legitimately talented, had a bizarre sort of charisma, and was over with the crowd. I'm not saying push him to the World Title, but they sort of pushed him off to the side so Russo could work on making Kidman into a credible main event.
ReplyDeleteI think people were more impressed by LeRoux's sideburns than they were with his in-ring ability. Just about any WCW cruiserweight was considered "underrated" at the time.
Didn't Nash somehow get himself involved in the Steiner/Goldberg feud? I watched until the company died but I don't remember much after the Summer of '99. All the suck just started blending together.
ReplyDeleteLash LeRoux was the man.
ReplyDeleteThats the problem, Russo was trying to book WWE in WCW instead of just booking WCW. Russo never adapted his style to the Southern "attitude" of the fans. Pun intended. Furthermore had Russo not wanted Tank Abbot as champion Sullivan would have never taken back over.
ReplyDeleteNow we have WWE afraid to turn ANYONE heel. Although Russo went overboard I do miss the crazy heel turns from that era.
ReplyDeleteAlthough, if he had gotten WCW champ Tank Abbot, now he'd be considered "ahead of the curve" somewhat.
ReplyDeleteWhatever happened to Tank? WCW died and he vanished off the face of the planet.
I hope "color commentator" is a mistype. He meant "manager to wrestler". And for that alone, yeah, Page should be in the Hall. NO ONE went manager to wrestler. No one. And I'd put him in before Rude and Roberts. Not Savage, though.
ReplyDelete"Nobody did what I did. Nobody was as over in the 90's. I was in the top five guys according to Pro Wrestling Illustrated."
ReplyDeleteWas referring to this line. Out of all the ridiculous things retired guys say, this is in the top 5.
Mark Madden on commentary... ugh. He still pops up on the NFL Network nowadays, along with some guy named Andy Benoit, who looks a lot like this other Benoit that used to be a wrestler but never gets mentioned on TV anymore for whatever reason.
ReplyDeleteI remember having to try and follow this era of WCW when I was in my early teens by watching WCW Worldwide which was the one of the only two wrestling show in England on terrestrial television, along with the then WWF Heat. I initially only watched Heat and I remember my family never gave me a hard time for watching it as they had watched old-school British wrestling with my Granddad during the days of Big Daddy, Giant Haystacks, Johnny Saint, Mark Rollerball Rocco, Mick McManus and Kendo Nagasaki. I remember my mum and my aunty commenting how good The Rock, Triple H, Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle looked as wrestlers and how they wrestled too. Then one day they caught me watching WCW Worldwide when Kevin Nash was laying out various mid-carders and looked at it with pure disgust and questioned how I could watch this fake crap. And this was coming from adults that raved how good the Big Daddy versus Giant Haystacks matches were back in their day. It made me feel really ashamed at the time, despite my protests of how I was just watching it for the cruiserweights. Looking back now I got to laugh because to the casual fan WCW was just a bastardised rip-off of the then WWF, and to be fair at that point it was.
ReplyDeleteI also remember how harsh my school friends were about WCW with comments like; how Buff Bagwell came across as a camper version of George Michael, who was the bigger rip-off stable of DX between the Filthy Animals and the Misfits In Action, what a terrible wrestling name General E Rection was, why are Vampiro and Sting feuding, how can Lance Storm come across as so serious despite the fact he wrestled in WCW, that Booker T was good but shouldn't try so hard to be like The Rock, why Kronik looked good but sucked so badly in the ring, how can anyone take David Flair seriously and general confusion over trying to follow who was heel and who was face. The one thing we did all agree on was that Major Gunns had awesome boobs.
Survivor Series '98 was what hooked me into wrestling, it was real easy to jump into the storyline after being introduced to all the major players (and the Real Man's Man Steven Regal) in one night... but I watch it now, and good god are all the matches short, pointless and stupid.
ReplyDeleteMan them fucking up the Goldberg/Steiner feud was awful. Of course Goldberg's heel turn fucked up the company even before they got to the feud. But seriously, how fucking hard was it have Goldberg return mid-2000 and remain face, give Steiner the title around that same time, and have them fight at Starrcade.
ReplyDeleteBesides Cena, who else to you mean?
ReplyDeleteI think he does deserve to be in, but yeah, obviously he's delusional about nobody being more over in the 90s. He was pretty over but even if you discounted the WWF completely (which you'd certainly have to) and were only looking at WCW, he's still behind at LEAST Goldberg and a variety of other people at different times.
ReplyDeleteLove DDP but yeah, that part of it is delusional.
Agreed, I heard a story that back in the day Ahmed Johnson went to Vince and demanded more money thanks to his place in the PWI rankings. I think it was RD Reynolds from WrestleCrap who likened this to using Santa Claus as one of your References on a job application since you always got presents as a kid.
ReplyDeleteYeah, talk about a ppv that I absolutely loved at the time that hasn't aged well. I was so into the Survivor Series that year. It really felt like a huge deal and the 13 year old me was completely torn between Rock and Foley in the main event. Trying to rewatch it now is kind of brutal.
ReplyDeleteThere was a time in history when DDP was one of the most over dudes in wrestling. I don't think he was top 5 of the attitude era, but he may have cracked the bottom of the top 10. Every person in show business tends to overestimate their relevance and that's a result of the ego it takes to succeed. So yeah, I think Page is off base saying he was more over than anyone, but he was certainly one of the main faces of WCW at their most successful time.
ReplyDeleteSo is PWI in general (and the PWI 500 in specific) that meaningless in the industry?
ReplyDeleteHe was over as about as much as guys like the New Age Outlaws were. And it was really short lived. He is nowhere near the top 10 for me.
ReplyDeleteShane Douglas is still trying to pull his loose cannon act. Gotta admire that, he keeps trying it after 15 years of nobody caring. Being sarcastic of course, he's another example of someone who can't do anything else so continues wrestling long after he should have hung it up.
ReplyDeleteIt's not even close to the most delusional thing he has said recently. A few weeks ago in an interview he said he pitched an idea for his debut to come against the Rock and lead to a match at WM. The funniest part is him sounding baffled as to why WWE didn't go for it.
ReplyDeleteAbbot wasn't that talented and certainly not a freak like Brock Lesnar. I recall Tank threatening to stab someone after a pay per view match.
ReplyDeleteActually I think the entire roster should be flipped. A good example would have been keeping Punk heel after he blew up. Thats what Russo would have done.
ReplyDeleteI think changes has to come subtle and not too radical like they did.
ReplyDeleteI think WCW died when Hogan came in 1994. Everything after was not the WCW from the past.
ReplyDeleteHe got fat, and ended up wrestling in the southern US indys. He's probably still there.
ReplyDeleteNot really, wrestlers have fragile egos and the obsess over things like that that rank them, especially for a lot of guys on the indie scene who can use that to help negotiate a payday based on how big of a draw they are. A few guys that came in at number 500 even used that as their gimmick.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the "Southern Attitude" of the fans, was anyone else living in the South at the time that didn't really get that vibe? I lived in Orlando, which was supposed to be WCW's second home, and it never felt like a heavily WCW-oriented area to me, but that could have been because WCW at any time from the mid-90s on was mainly WWF leftovers. Maybe it was more prevalent in other places though. I dunno I always heard that about WCW but I didn't really see it reflected in the fans I knew & saw at shows.
ReplyDeleteSomehow he ended up wrestling in the former WWE developmental territory Deep South Wrestling in 2005. How I'll never know.
ReplyDeletePunk can turn heel if he's facing Austin at Mania 29. Plus he has the perfect excuse; Austin was drinking beer on TV every night while Punk was dealing with his father's alcholism. They don't have to go full SES again but just focus Punk's wrath on Austin and that's it.
ReplyDeleteWere they on the internet at this time or did those opinions just grow naturally out of the product? I'm curious to find out because I get the feeling certain fans in a certain mindset can mimic "smark" opinions completely naturally, without any outside coaching. I liken it to mid 90s WCW when I was still a school kid and still thought wrestling was real, but just naturally appreciated Benoit, Jericho, Malenko, and the luchadores for their talent and ability.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Johnny Saint was the man. Huge cult influence on lots of current workers like Colt Cabana, Nigel McGuiness, and Chris Hero.
Since there's been a lot of talk 'round here about DDP's credibility as a World champion, count me in as one of the people who always kinda liked him AND Jeff Jarrett at the top of the card. Their schticks wouldn't have worked in the WWF main events, but WCW wasn't the WWF. Just like Scott Steiner and Booker T, they seemed like the right guys for that particular time and place. Jarrett gets shit-talked a lot, but his run at the top of WCW always entertained me due to how balls out ridiculous it was... "slap nuts" made me giggle, and I'd rather get my balsa wood guitar shots from him than New Jack.
ReplyDeleteThat was some random jobber at Superbrawl 2000 I think. Tony covered by saying Tank just wanted to shave his beard, but the dude had no beard!
ReplyDeleteNorman Smiley and Ernest Miller were probably the only two guys in WCW who Russo's booking actually HELPED
ReplyDeleteOh man, the New Blood era. The Nitro that proceeded this show is actually quite awesome, and I still watch it from time to time. The opening segment (which is on the Best of Nitro DVD in full other than a clip when Russo mentions Benoit leaving) is just ridiculous, with Bischoff and Russo saying "WWF" every 5 seconds and trying to use as many insider references as possible. "What's the matter Sid, can't find your scissors? No softball game?"
ReplyDeleteThe odd part is that once Russo was finally sent packing for good in the fall (around November I think), WCW actually became quite watchable. The shows from 2001 aren't anything great, but the young guys went out and put on some good matches since they were basically trying to impress the McMahons, and the result was programming that wasn't horrible.I hope the June 2012 Scott Sez involves the Great American Bash, so we can get commentary on how awful Goldberg's month long heel turn was
The whole Slapnuts thing just seemed so silly as a catchphrase. Jarrett would have been better off just continuing his 1999 WWF persona without that and the guitar thing just because he kept injuring guys with it.
ReplyDeleteHaving said all that he still shouldn't have been pushed as World Champion when Scott Steiner was RIGHT THERE.
"(Hogan should have been all “Check out these guns, brother!” and then destroyed the entire police force with a POSEDOWN.)"
ReplyDeleteThanks, I just spit ravioli all over my screen. That may have been the funniest thing you've ever written (and mental image I've ever seen) lol.
Honestly as someone who was watching WCW regularly at the time I thought the reboot was interesting simply because it was something different. My only issue was that stables disappearing didn't make much sense. IIRC there was yet another nWo group running around at the time and then expecting them to instantly disband because of the Russo reboot made no sense at all. I wouldn't have minded it as much if some of the old alliances had carried over in a more obvious way.
ReplyDeleteAt this point WCW was no longer "sinking" they were full on sunk so at this point whatever they wanted to do to try and change things up was fine with me.
If they were on the internet they probably wouldn't of admitted to be honest. At a guess I'd say some of them probably were. We never used phrases like heel or face as it was more like 'Are we supposed to cheer for this dude or not?' referring to guys that switched constantly. Scott Steiner switched over the spring and summer, first being a part of the New Blood stable, then joining the Millionaires Club, then switching to feud with Nash and Goldberg. They were also aware that a lot of guys in WCW seemed to wrestle more fake compared to the WWF at the time. I remember there was a lot of instances were wrestlers in WCW would get their opponents in position for the finishing move then stall for while posing for the crowd and then delivering the move.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair some of my school friends came out with all sorts of inaccurate statements about wrestling; that there were multiple Takers, Kanes and Ultimate Warriors throughout the years, that the current Kane at the time was played by the guy who played the original Undertaker, there were more than two Headbangers, the Texas Tornado shot himself in the head at a live TV event, Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon had a backstage fight which led to Hogan joining WCW, but my personal favourite was two lads arguing over who the Higher Power was originally supposed to be with one saying Ultimate Warrior and other saying Vader! That always makes me chuckle... "IT'S TIME, IT'S TIME, IT WAS VADER TIME ALL ALONG AUSTIN!" It was around summer 2000 when I started following certain wrestling websites including Scott Keith's work. Before I forget anyone remember GH and Joe who wrote humorous reviews of Nitro and Raw? They had several ongoing jokes including; Dean Malenko being a baby, Chris Benoit having T-Rex arms, DDP being an absolute self parody of himself and the Jericho Curse which shockingly I found out was a phrase Jericho used himself in his books about his bad luck at times. Their work was some of the funniest wrestling-related material I ever found. Would love to reread some of their work sometime.
I remember seeing the clip where I think it was Bischoff that made the scissors jibe at Sid to absolutely no crowd reaction, so he repeated it again to overwhelming indifference.
ReplyDeleteSo was this before or after they basically started admitting on screen that wrestling was "scripted".
ReplyDeleteWell let's try. let's take page at his peak, say summer of 98 when he was main eventing with celebs. Who was also hugely over? Goldberg, Austin, Rock, Foley are all obviously above DDP. From there I would argue he's just as over as anyone else. UT was not at his peak, but he was up there. If we talk heels too, then Kane was pretty over, even getting a 1 day reign. I'd argue HHH wasn't there yet at that point. Outlaws were pretty over, but I think we can disqualify teams and as seperate guys we all saw how well that went in early 99. In WCW, you had who? Sting was done by that point, killed by his lame win over Hogan and then being shunted to the background. I think Nash would qualify. Not luger at that point, summer 97 yes, summer 98, no. So pretty much just Nash and Goldberg in WCW. I guess you could argue Hogan too, although I think half his heat was real heat and half was the so-called xpac heat by that point. So by my count DDP is just as good an argument for 5-10 area as anyone else. But guaranteed top 5? Naah.
ReplyDeletethat describes almost everything about 98-99 in WCW and WWF. At the time we loved it because it was new and exciting it has aged as badly as an ECW hardcore match.
ReplyDeleteyep. the two of them were probably the most entertaining guys on the show from Russo's start until the final show. I'd argue Jarrett and Booker T (once the GI Bro and the fight over the letter T ended) were better off with Russo's booking than the previous regime.
ReplyDeleteMost WWE territories have the freedom to book guys to help prop up shows that don't have developmental contracts. I'm pretty sure not everyone in FCW is under developmental, for example.
ReplyDelete"Punk can turn heel if he's facing Austin at Mania 29. Plus he has the perfect excuse; Austin was drinking beer on TV every night while Punk was dealing with his father's alcholism. They don't have to go full SES again but just focus Punk's wrath on Austin and that's it."
ReplyDeleteNow, I know this will never happen in a million years for a multitude of reasons, but I think Austin turning heel on Punk is a much more interesting story.
Have Austin come back to be RAW Guest Host/GM/Whatever for one night, Punk wins a hard-fought main event, Austin comes out for his beer-drinking routine and offers one to Punk...who politely declines for obvious reasons. KICK WHAM STUNNER and the show goes off the air. The next week, Punk reiterates how much he respects and admires Austin, but that he takes his "Straight-Edge" philosophy seriously and he's not going to sacrifice those principles for anyone, not even Stone Cold. Then, at the end of the night, after another successful title defense, Punk is standing in the ring when Austin's music hits. He comes down to the ring, shakes Punk's hand, and then attacks him from behind and proceeds to beat the snot out of him.
Austin eventually goes on to explain that Punk disrespected him, and that when a HOFer and "the greatest superstar of all time" offers you a beer, you damn well better accept it. And from there, he can start rallying against all the newer generation stars and how they just don't measure up. Have Austin play the bitter ex-champion who can't quite accept that his time is done and that it's a new era. And Johnny Ace can exploit Austin's bitterness and get under Punk's skin by constantly kissing up and talking up his legendary status while disparaging Punk as a young upstart. Obviously, this would lead to Punk eventually going over clean, and Austin shaking his hand and conceding that he's the better man. Of course, this assumes that the fans would accept Austin as a heel and not just cheer him for kicking ass, and I'm not sure that would happen even if we had a great WWE creative team handling the booking.
Yes, and it led to one of the most retarded moments in wrestling history where Goldberg "refused to be Jack Knifed" at New Blood Rising as the idiots on commentary raved about how this wasn't part of the script and that now Nash/Steiner would have to "improvise" the finish to the match.
ReplyDeleteIf you just want to take a specific time point on summer 98, he still doesn't make top 10.
ReplyDeleteAustin, Undertaker, Foley, and Kane dominated all summer long. HHH and Rock were tearing it up and both making the leap. Goldberg had just won the title. Nash was insanely over with the Wolfpac thing. Really everyone in the Wolfpac was super over, including Sting and Luger.
And he was playing 4th fiddle in those celebrity feuds. I'd bet the only reason he was involved was because he was the only guy stupid enough to agree with it.
To be fair, I would have loved to see the People's Champ vs the People's Champ.
ReplyDeleteWhile that isn't a bad idea by any means it's just not worth the risk of having the crowd still cheer Austin. Sometimes playing it safe is the best option and in this case, Austin's first match in 10 years, would be an example.
ReplyDeleteAh yes, the infamous "Big Al"...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngnyMoODND0
I know, that's why I said it'll never happen. People are going to cheer Austin no matter what.
ReplyDeleteI honestly think that the dying days of WCW were a kind of scorched Earth policy. If WCW couldn't win, then they were going to try and screw up wrestling so badly in the minds of people that they would end up taking down the WWF as well.
ReplyDeleteAustin's last heel turn bombed bad enough, I doubt trying it again would be a success. If anything, Punk needs to turn heel (that's if Austin/Punk actually happens at all.)
ReplyDeleteYeah, he booked it with Vince McMahon watching over him and preventing him from screwing it up.
ReplyDeleteThis was the only WCW PPV I ever attended live, which is a shame since I lived within 2 hours of the many shows they had in Greensboro and Winston-Salem. I just happened to be in Chicago on business that weekend and decided to see the show. Overbooked mess doesn't begin to describe it, and from the sound of this review, the commentary didn't help. My favorite part was clearly seeing Kronik pacing around behind a partially open curtain waiting for their cue to interfere in the tag title match. It's sloppy crap like that that irritated me so much about Russo, in addition to his ADD style of booking.
ReplyDeleteYeah, you had Christopher Daniels, Steve Corino and AJ Styles kicking ass and breaking loose on the national stage.
ReplyDeleteSteve Corino never worked for WCW.
ReplyDeleteThat version of the nWo was Jarrettt and the Harris Brothers by then, so I think everyone was perfectly okay with it quietly ending, if only so the Harrises could pulls the world's largest disappearing act.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that could have at least been a fun Raw main event.
ReplyDeleteThat is not near the most ridiculous thing a retired wrestler has ever said.
ReplyDeleteAgreed- DDP is completely up his own ass about his place in the business.
ReplyDeleteNot on screen, but he was hired by them 37 days (I think) before WWE bought them.
ReplyDeleteHe was gonna be one of Jarrett's cronies with the whole King of Old School gimmick.
Huh, I did not know that. So he lost Justin Credible as a tag partner when ECW closed and lost Jarrett as a partner when WCW closed.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to weigh in here about DDP being TOP 5 most popular stars of the 90s. I'd say he's right. Let's take '98 as the year we use as a microcosm for the 90s considering everybody popular in 1990 was still popular in 98 (ie: Hart, Hogan, Piper, Michaels, Savage). I was a fan then and am still a fan now, so I think I have a grasp on what I'm talking about.
ReplyDeleteIn 1998, Randy Savage was as popular as Steve Austin. Savage was WCW's baddass babyface. Just go back and watch the crowd reactions he gets from March-his knee injury. Hogan was #2 to Savage at this point. Goldberg comes out of nowhere, and basically takes DDP's spot in the summer. DDP should have (and probably would have) been the guy to beat Hogan in 98 had Goldberg not exploded in popularity. Kinda rambling here but the gist is I have a pecking order and it goes like this:
1)Steve Austin
2)The Rock
3) Randy Savage
4)Hogan
......
Yeah, so I'd give 5 to either Goldberg or DDP. Therefore, I don't think Page is far off.Just for fun I'll give you my Top 10 of the 90's because I love lists:
1)Steve Austin
2)The Rock
3)Randy Savage
4)Hogan
5)Goldberg
6)DDP
7)Mick Foley
8)Bret Hart
9)Kevin Nash
10)Shawn Michaels
There you go trolls. Have fun with that!
Even thought I'm a Jarrett fan, I think Steve dodged two bullets there.
ReplyDelete