Saturday, May 17, 2014

Clash Countdown: #15A

(AHA!  I found it randomly filed in my WCW folder after all.) 

The SmarK Retro Re-Rant for WCW Clash of the Champions XV: Knocksville USA! (June 14, 1991)

- Your hosts are Tony & JR.

- Live from Knoxville, TN, see, because it's KNOCKSville, USA. Oh, that Dusty.

- This show is smack dab in the middle of 1991, in a period for WCW so bad that it makes the current product on Smackdown look like Ring of Honor by comparison.

- Opening match: The Fabulous Freebirds & Bradstreet v. Tom Zenk & The Southern Boys.

The Birds had recently lost the World tag titles to the Steiners after a grueling negative title reign where they lost the belts before they won them, which kind of tells you the direction of the company at that point right there. Even the laws of time and space were abandoning ship on them. The Freebird entourage at ringside was getting completely out of proportion to their place on the card at this point as well, featuring both Diamond Dallas Page and Oliver Humperdink as managers for a team that cut better promos than either one of them did. Ah, WCW.

The Pistols control early with a pair of flying bodypresses, but the Birds regroup outside. Back in, Tracy Smothers uses his redneck kung fu on Hayes, and they bail again. Tony notes that the Freebirds should probably think about going after Tom Zenk's recently-detached bicep. Wait, wait, let me put this sage wisdom into my PDA in case I'm ever in the ring with him, filed under "Blindingly Obvious" along with DDP's eternal rib tape. Hayes comes back with his dreaded right hand and Bradstreet dumps Smothers, you'd think making him your hick-in-peril. But instead the faces defy expectations of the way the match should go and they all sunset flip in for the triple pin to end it really quickly.

(Southern Boys & Zenk d. Freebirds & Badstreet, triple pin, 4:46, *1/2) Was there an emergency Armstrong family meeting backstage that necessitated them going home RIGHT NOW or something? 4 out of the 6 guys never even tagged in!

The Great and Mighty Oz v. Johnny Rich

Well, on the bright side, at least now they had more time for Big Kev. Fear his rubber Gandalf mask and generic rock entrance music! Yes, this company seriously did think that devoting a 12-minute entrance and licensing the rights to the "Oz" name would make Nash into the next superstar. Turns out all they needed to do was bring in Shawn Michaels and let Nash ride his coattails to the top instead. It must have pained Kevin, however, to be forced to dye his hair grey for the character, when the rest of his life became devoted to doing the opposite. Sure, there's a match going on, but why get bogged down with petty details like that? Life's too short.

(Oz d. Johnny Rich, helicopter slam -- pin, 1:27, DUD) This gets nothing and likes it, and Nash was repackaged yet again into Vinnie Vegas soon after. So no one is happy.

Dangerous Dan Spivey v. Big Josh

Josh's introduction begs the question: Where exactly IS the "North Woods" supposed to be? The forest just outside of Parts Unknown? Is it like Narnia? Slugfest to start and Spivey gets a corner clothesline, but Josh takes him down. The juxtaposition on commenatary is hilarious here, as Ross talks in a serious tone about Spivey's football career while Tony has to act like a moron and pretend that grizzled veteran Matt Bourne has only been in the sport for "five months". I never got that about WCW -- you had marketable name wrestlers like Matt Bourne and Billy Jack Haynes, who have drawn money for years under those names, and you bring them in and immediately give them silly gimmicks like Big Josh and Black Blood and essentially just give them roles that any idiot jobber could play, thus wasting any value their name has. Josh comes back with a suplex, but gets clotheslined. Josh comes back again with a backdrop suplex, but Kevin Sullivan (in the name of Black Blood, who couldn't even be bothered to do the run-in himself, apparently) hits Josh with a crutch and allows Spivey to finish.

(Spivey d. Josh, german suplex -- pin, 2:46, *) You know, this one kind of irks me, because they were having a very watchable and fun little brawl here before the goofy finish after only 3 minutes. The Josh-Blood feud, with it not being Portland in 1984 and all, went nowhere.

And now, the WCW Top 10!

  1. Lex Luger
  2. Great Muta
  3. El Gigante
  4. Bobby Eaton
  5. Nikita Koloff
  6. Sting
  7. Arn Anderson
  8. Barry Windham
  9. One Man Gang
  10. Stunning Steve Austin

Please note: THE WCW TOP TEN is a prescription medication approved for use in combination with flutamide (an antiandrogen) plus radiotherapy for locally advanced prostate cancer. Treatment with the combination should start 8 weeks prior to starting and continue during radiation therapy.

THE WCW TOP TEN is also approved to use alone for patients with advanced prostate cancer. THE WCW TOP TEN may help reduce the size of your cancer and reduce your symptoms (palliative treatment).

THE WCW TOP TEN, like other LHRH-As, may cause an initial rise in testosterone. When used alone, there may be a temporary worsening of prostate cancer symptoms at the start of therapy.

Common side effects that occurred during treatment with THE WCW TOP TEN plus flutamide and radiation therapy or THE WCW TOP TEN alone included hot flashes, decrease in sexual desire and/or ability to have erections, diarrhea, pain (general, pelvic, and bone), lower urinary tract symptoms, fatigue, nausea, breast growth, swelling, rash, upper respiratory infection, and sweating. These may also be associated with being Dusty Rhodes.

Please see full Prescribing Information for THE WCW TOP TEN.

- And now, Paul E Dangerously interviews Jason Hervey in a one-sided fashion, about his relationship with Missy Hyatt. Hervey was a huge wrestling fan and was constantly on TV at this time, milking his Wonder Years quasi-fame before going on to head the failed WCW Home Video division. Sadly, it collapsed in 1999, as they never could really break away from Turner Home Video. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't get a job with them after all. Anyway, Paul badgers the kid until he stands up for himself, at which point Dangerously clobbers him with the phone in a nice bump for Jason. Good segment, actually.

Dustin Rhodes v. Terrance Taylor

Despite the breakneck pacing of the show thus far, Dustin's father being the booker makes me fear him getting like 15:00 tonight. Rhodes with a corner clothesline for two to start, as they just chuck the entire opening sequence out the window. Taylor bails, but gets hit with a pair of atomic drops back in the ring. Dustin misses a charge and lands on the floor, and Taylor suplexes him back in for two. Jawjacker and powerbomb get two. Dustin gets a sunset flip for two. Backslide gets two. Slugfest is won by Dustin as he comes back with the atomic drop and bulldog, but Mr. Hughes is distracting the ref by telling him about the great new S&M club he found the night before. This allows Ricky Morton to run in and turn on Dustin, thus joining the York Foundation.

(Dustin Rhodes d. Terrance Taylor, DQ, 4:23, *1/2) Never really got going, much like everything else thus far.

Sting v. Nikita Koloff.

I could be wrong, but I like to imagine this one started backstage when Sting was all "I love Jesus the most for his message of love and compassion!" and Koloff was all "No, I love Jesus the most for his message of understanding and brotherhood!" and then it turned into a big brawl. At any rate, this was a great potential feud that just came at completely the wrong time for a great feud.

Sting charges in and gets beaten down for his troubles. Koloff hits him with a shoulderblock and tosses him, and abuses him on the floor. Back in, Sting piledrives him, which Koloff no-sells. Where did THAT come from? Koloff stomps him down and tombstones him for two. Sting comes back with a sunset flip for two. Nikita keeps pounding in the corner and a backbreaker gets two. Slight tangent: Am I the only one now incapable of hearing that Elton John song "Nikita" without thinking of Koloff? Koloff stays on the ribs and chokes away, but Sting fires back. Nikita tosses him to end that, but Sting reverses him into the railing as a payback for an earlier spot. Back in, more irony as Sting reverses the tombstone piledriver and comes back. Stinger splash misses, but so does the Russian Sickle, allowing Sting to roll him up for the pin.

(Sting d. Koloff, rollup -- pin, 9:33, ***) Hey, this almost got enough time to tell a real story and everything!

- PN News joins us, joined by Salt N Pepa a few years before their comeback and subsequent fade into obscurity again. Johnny B Badd interrupts to kick off the gayest feud of 1991. John Cena owes his CAREER to PN News, and we all know it but don't want to admit it. Anyway, Badd calls News UGLY. OH, SNAP! PN wants to know why Badd is dissing him. No, really. Let's just move on.

Barry Windham & Arn Anderson v. Brian Pillman & El Gigante (Loser Leaves WCW)

I don't even know where that stipulation came from. The Horsemen pound on Pillman to start and Windham DDTs him for two. Arn comes in and knees Brian in the corner, but gets dropkicked to the floor. Pillman follows with a pescado and Gigante chokes Arn out. Back in, Brian gets a high cross on Windham for two. Powerslam for Arn and he goes up, but Windham trips him up and then boots him in the head for the pin. Hell of a way to end a career.

(Windham & Anderson d. Pillman & Gigante, Windham kick -- pin Pillman, 3:06, *) This was almost a squash by the Horsemen, as Pillman would resurface as "The Yellow Dog" in a part tribute to Barry Windham's old gimmick and a part tribute to Dusty Rhodes' old gimmick. I think the funnier visual gag would have been Gigante losing the fall and coming back as El Perro Amarillo, with the announcers struggling to place the mysterious masked man, but I take my amusement where I can get it.

- Paul E. hypes the Great American Bash 91, which should be a wicked card as long as the champion doesn't walk out with the belt a week before the show over a money dispute. But then, when does that ever happen?

IWGP tag titles: The Steiner Brothers v. Masa Chono & Hiroshi Hase

The Steiners care so much about the IWGP titles that they don't even bother bringing them to the ring, just using the WCW tag belts instead. Hase starts with Scott and takes him down, then blocks Scott's return attempt with an enzuigiri. Scott hotshots him for two, however. Hase comes back with a vicious side kick, but Scott takes him down again and brings Rick in. He pounds on Chono, but gets STIFFED with a Yakuza kick that's so hard it knocks his headgear off. OH, SNAP! Much love to Chono for that one. He continues throwing the kicks as Rick seems uninteresting in selling anything after that, until Rick fires back with a brutal Steinerline. Oh, I can feel the love tonight. Scott comes in for the double-team, and Rick suplexes Hase when Chono tags out. Hase comes back with a fallaway slam and Chono shoulderblocks Rick off the top. Fallaway slam from Chono into a flying kneedrop from Hase follows, and Chono slaps on the STF, thus introducing the move to the US. Scott suplexes the shit out of Hase on the floor and breaks up the STF, however. Double KO and tags on both sides, and Scott just about knocks the moustache off Hase's face with a lariat. Butterfly bomb and belly to belly superplex get two. Hase gets a dragon suplex for two and sets up the double-team, but Scott has had enough and finishes Hase with the Frankensteiner.

(The Steiners d. Hase & Chono, Scott rana -- pin Hase, 8:09, ***) Another one that ended just as it got going, with both teams looking grumpy and throwing stiff shots at each other. The Hardliners (Murdoch & Slater) attack everyone afterwards, resulting in Scott tearing a bicep and having to forfeit the titles soon after. He never really recovered fully and turned into the wrestler he is today instead of the one he was back then.

The Diamond Studd v. Tommy Rich

Someone tell these guys it's only a 2 hour show. Quick squash for the Studd, as I think a drinking contest would have been more interesting.

(Studd d. Rich, Razor's Edge -- pin, 1:56, DUD)

- Jim Ross interviews the winner of the Sting lookalike contest, who happens to be a kid from Knoxville. Sadly, the story would turn tragic when the winner of the Ric Flair lookalike contest would ask the kid to join the Four Horsemen lookalikes, before viciously turning on him. Anyway, I can't pass this by without noting that the real Sting joins the kid and gets attacked by Nikita Koloff, but not before hugging his little friend and talking about how excited it makes him. TMI! TMI!

Lex Luger v. The Great Muta

Why yes, there are more matches before the main event, why do you ask? This is the #1 contender battle, which is odd because they hadn't even used Muta since like 1989. Luger no-sells all of Muta's stuff and suplexes him. Muta gets a backdrop, but Luger no-sells that and presses him instead. Blind charge misses, but Muta misses the handspring elbow and takes a SPECTACULAR bump to the floor, perhaps trying to at least show up Luger before doing the job. Back in, Luger no-sells the mist and powerslams him to finish. Well, screw you too, Lex.

(Luger d. Muta, powerslam -- pin, 3:46, 1/2*) Nothing match, as Luger gave him nothing and sold nothing.

Stunning Steve Austin v. Joey Maggs

Sadly, I did this show on October 15 2006, and while I was typing it up the next day I learned that in fact Maggs passed away in the morning. Sorry, it wasn't my intention to do a show featuring him the night before he died.

(Austin d. Maggs, stungun -- pin, 0:20, DUD)

WCW World title: Ric Flair v. Bobby Eaton

Finally the main event, with about 15 minute of airtime left. This is 2/3 falls, just like in the old days. Flair gets a cheapshot to start, so Eaton smacks him down and clotheslines him out. Back in, Flair throws the chops, but Bobby is all BRING IT ON, and fires back with punches before backdropping him for two. Eaton takes him down into a short-arm scissors, and Flair unsuccessfully tries to roll out of it. Flair takes him down, but gets tagged with another right and bails. Eaton chases, walking right into Flair's trap like an idiot. And now, Flair starts chopping and tosses Eaton into the ringpost. Kneedrop gets two. Butterfly suplex gets two. Back to the chops, and they slug it out, but Flair goes up and gets slammed off. Flair Flip and a backbreaker for Eaton get two. See, here that sequence with Flair getting slammed off and doing the silly flip was meaningful, because it's leading to something. Just wanted to jump in and note that. Neckbreaker and Alabama Jam finish cleanly to give Eaton the first fall at 9:45. And that was the pinnacle of Eaton's career. Mark your calendar, because Eaton's career was all downhill after that.

Second fall sees Bobby fighting off another Flair flurry, and a backslide gets two. Neckbreaker and Eaton gets cocky, going up again to finish, but Flair is smarter and dumps him to the floor, blowing out his knee in the process. Double whammy! Eaton is counted out at 12:29.

Third fall and Eaton is limping, and you just know what's going to happen now. That's a really well-booked match. Eaton is still fighting and he gets a superplex, but his knee is gone. He still gets two, but Flair recovers first and goes for the kill. Figure-four, but Eaton reverses for two. You'd think after 20 years Flair would learn not to yell "NOW WE GO TO SCHOOL!" because it telegraphs the move a bit, but he's the pro. Figure-four again, and this time there's no reversing it, as Eaton is done at 15:51. Can't fault him for effort, but Flair just out-thought him.

(Flair d. Eaton 2 falls to 1, figure-four -- pin, 15:51, ***1/2) This one hurt, because it could have been SOOOOOO much more but got hacked down due to time constraints from their own retarded management skills. Still, not too shabby as is and well worth checking out. All hell broke loose with Flair a couple of weeks after this.

The Pulse:

The main event is worth a look, but the rest is like Russo booking while coked up and should be avoided at all costs. 1991 WCW was not so much with the good, and this is a fine example of why everyone involved should have been rounded up and shot long ago. Recommendation to avoid.

124 comments:

  1. I have no recollection of Brad Armstrong as a heel. Did they actually call him Bradstreet? And on the other side, wasn't Tom Zenk going by the awesome ring name "Z-Man"? Oh that WCW...

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  2. Amazing Spider-Man 2 is entertaining enough, but like the first Amazing, the big villain is a total dud. Electro's powers make for great visuals (as does all the action in this one) but the character is so badly written, and Foxx plays him with no subtlety. He has a man-crush on Spidey, then turns on him for pretty much no reason. Same with Goblin...at the end the only motivations are "I hate you, Spider-Man!". That didn't work out well for the infamous Spider-Man 3, either.


    Dane DeHaan is great, but Harry really needed more than the limited time here to go from decent but troubled to total psycho. Say what you will about James Franco, at least his character had plenty of time to tell out his story.
    The Rhino was a total waste, of course.



    Raimi's Spider-Man 2 had a fascinating, three dimensional bad guy in Dr. Octopus, and Alfred Molina was superb in the role. There's no villains anywhere near that compelling in either of the new Amazing films.


    The Avengers franchise and the X-Men series, which has been back on fire since First Class make the new Spider-Man films seem seriously small and unambitious.

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  3. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMay 17, 2014 at 3:02 AM

    Oh they're not the worse as long as they have Aksana....but I'd rather watch a circa 2003 Scott Steiner match ten times over than a Bella RAW match.


    Keep in mind I'm someone who also liked the Dancing Lance Storm gimmick, so take things I say with a grain of salt.

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  4. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMay 17, 2014 at 3:03 AM

    Well, I guess he's smart enough to see how leaving worked out for Brock and Rock, so maybe.

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  5. That always solves everything!


    In other news, I suffered a severe head injury in 1998 that resets my memory every day when I wake up.

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  6. Nobody besides JTG and Curt Hawkins would be acceptable as The Freeloaders because their only purpose is to freeload off of catering at this point.

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  7. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMay 17, 2014 at 3:10 AM

    Well the point of the current ASM series is just "We need to keep making these movies so we don't lose this reliable meal ticket to Marvel".....and that's it.

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  8. btw: as already discussed in other threads. many of the people posting here actually DID have their timespans in which they stopped watching or following it in any way (for example: I completely dropped out in 1999 and came back in 2004).

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  9. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryMay 17, 2014 at 3:22 AM

    It's kinda fun imaging Vince as some sort of crazed crackpot Willem-Dafoe-as-Norman-Osborn. Just sitting on those conference calls screaming, "I built this company! DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I'VE HAD TO SACRIFICE?!?!?!?"

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  10. Proof that life is unfair: There's a match from this show on the "Best of the Clash" DVD. The main? No, the fucking opener with the young shits and that horsefucker Zenk stinking up the ring. FEH.

    "Slight tangent: Am I the only one now incapable of hearing that Elton John song "Nikita" without thinking of Koloff?"



    Yup, just you.

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  11. Mero's the only full-blown failure of the group, and he had an OK career.

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  12. He didn't say Badstreet, he said Bradstreet. ;) And no, they didn't. He was Fantasia until Disney sued WCW, then he became Badstreet, then vanished before they could deliver any kind of payoff to it.

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  13. André StenzelMay 17, 2014 at 4:10 AM

    No, he beat Savage with it.

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  14. The stock is basically EXACTLY where it was one year ago. The only people stressed are those who bought the hype of the last 5-6 months.

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  15. I remember this show for two reasons. First is Heyman hitting Hervey with the cell phone and the second is I was switching back and forth to the Lakers vs Bulls finals game. I don't remember anything after Heyman so I probably kept it on the basketball game.

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  16. I wouldn't consider him a failure. he was a reliable midcarder for 4 or 5 years and a TV champ. He also became a pretty decent worker the farther he got away from the original gimmick.

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  17. while this particularly match wasn't great, the Young pistols were very good workers.

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  18. Exactly. Stock was trading at 200 times earnings. It was a bubble based on speculation the WWE Network would hit 1 million subscribers and rights fees would double. When both promises flopped, people dumped the stock. Some can say at $11, it's still overvalued. Even with all the issues, company still makes a profit. Not exactly Barnes & Noble here

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  19. In the modern smark era I call it "like Sheamus being Triple H's workout buddy"

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  20. He won the title from Dusty with it back in '86

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  21. If you buy at $11 you know you'll be able to sell well over 20 in Mania season. I'm not sure how a huge increase in TV rights or getting 2/3 of the way to the network goal is the death of the WWE. They're able to pay their camera men and all.

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  22. The best call they could make for Monday is to announce that if The Shield beat Evolution than Bryan keeps his title, if they lost Abeyance gets it

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  23. Would a roster purge really be the worst thing from a fan standpoint? Sure, it sucks for the workers, but Vince clings to virtually everyone now, presumably because A) he likes to have talking heads with no leverage for the "WWE is great, Cena is great, that moment was totally funny" WWE countdown specials and B) he seems to think a mass firing like the ones he's previously known for will make WWE look really bad in an increasingly uptight marketplace. For chrissakes, JTG's still there! Nothing against him, but come on.....

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  24. Recommendation to avoid seems a little harsh for a 2 hour TV show with three matches over *** and Bobby Eaton's only singles main event I know of.

    I can make a recommendation to avoid though: Godzilla. It really wasn't better than the 98 one other than being more reverent. The main character is bland vanillington (Think Shia LeBouf crossed with Sam Worthington) and Godzilla is hardly in the movie! Ugh.

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  25. I've always liked Zenk, in the ring around this time he was on fire and his anti HHH rants circa 2002 were legendary.

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  26. What the fuck am I missing here? Wasn't it pretty common knowledge that the stocks price was over inflated a few months ago...this seems like a standard market correction.

    Also, who the fuck else in the world would the investors think would be better equipped to run the wwe than the McMahons?

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  27. Way to disprove my argument. Shut the hell up, nerd.

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  28. I disagree with 90% of this but the idea of Bryan as the face of the network to help sell it to their fan base is an into point.

    They brought Hogan in SOLELY to help sell the network/mania package.

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  29. Another stupid move by the WWE since Bryan appears on TV way more than Hulk how

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  30. The jury is still out if it was stupid or not. The network outsold their projections, didn't it?

    They were clearly selling Bryan getting his big moment at mania ad part of the network/mania package.

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  31. Yea, absolutely nobody I've seen.

    "I hear voices in my head. They council me. They understand me..."

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  32. There was just no reason to wait until Wrestlemania though. He was already popular so hype him up and push him at Elimination Chamber. They completely missed an opportunity to establish not only a face for the channel, but a new face for the entire company. I mean, you have to keep in mind that the guy wasn't even originally involved in their planned main event for Wrestlemania

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  33. over inflated yes, but one day corrections like that are still pretty bad. Normally you'd want it to go down slowly and not all at once.

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  34. I don't completely disagree... I think their thought process at that point was that getting mania for 10 bucks was the principle selling point of the network and that giving Bryan is huge WM moment was the best way to sell mania.

    Stuff like this is partly why I dislike all the network analysis...its almost impossible to analyze buyrates since a) I don't completely trust how wwe reports things like this b) nobody really has any idea what people are really buying, whether it's the library, ppvs, etc.

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  35. I haven't read the other thread yet: what is the prevailing thought on why the stock plummeted?

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  36. exactly. and the idea that it would have been a better move to let Bryan win the title at Elimination Chamber instead of WrestleMania seems ridiculous too me.

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  37. Yea, I think they played it out pretty well but I can at least see his point.

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  38. Exactly. They also have way to much invested in the network.

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  39. Bryan could still have had his Wrestlemania moment though if he was champion going up against Bootista in a one-on-one match. Big name matchup and its a fight fans haven't seen before. Daniel Bryan as the underdog champion trying to retain against a stronger, bigger and cooler fighter. Having him win a triple threat was nice but I think a Bryan vs. Batista main event would have been way better and better long-term.

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  40. The person who needs to be fired is whoever was managing expectations. I don't know if that's Vince, some number-cruncher, or a PR person, but you always under-promise and over-deliver. The message should have been controlled that the Network was going to start slow, then build. Then, WHATEVER number of subscribers you get on the first day, you go all Tony Shiavone and say "THIS IS THE GREATEST MOMENT IN THE HISTORY OF INTERNET!"

    The TV deal is a little trickier - they can't under-promise the amount on that because it hurts their negotiations (if they say they don't expect to get much more, then they WON'T). Still, though, it seems like every victory on their part is perceived as a massive failure.

    I'm still thinking of buying right now just because of how far it fell. There's going to be some kind of correction, and probably a decent one once the Network goes international.

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  41. You're first paragraph is SO spot on.

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  42. This was Cucch posing as Scott

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  43. Great article.

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  44. YankeesHoganTripleHFanMay 17, 2014 at 7:10 AM

    I distracted Vince means more Triple H behind the scenes....That's a GOOD thing these days right? I can never keep track.

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  45. Well it was inflated, so a combination of poor network subscriber numbers and a TV contract that was far less than was expected caused the massive sell off.

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  46. And tell me if I'm wrong here, but if they hit a million subscribers and got the TV deal they wanted, wouldn't a bunch of investors have looked and said, "Well now that they've hit those targets there's no new revenue streams on the horizon so it's time to sell?"

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  47. It the hit the target and the subscriber base would grow, maybe it would go down slightly. There is nothing WWE could do to justify a $25-30 share price at this time

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  48. For any TNA fans walking around a little too happy about all this, FYI, last weeks impact did a .83

    If TNA ever goes public would it even be a penny stock?

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  49. Anybody seen this event poster:

    http://lyotomachida.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/UFCPoster173WeidmanMachida.gif

    UFC brought back the Great American Bash!

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  50. No matter what they did storyline wise from the time the network was announced they would be in the same boat. The brand WWE is what sells the network. I don't think they could have done anything that would have gotten them to a million subscriptions after mania. The main reason the stock dropped is from vince promising double the tv revenue and investors expecting the network to have a bigger subscription base. Let's face it only 15-20 of their tv audience was willing to pay for the network. Compare it to the NFL where direct TV alone has 2 million subscribers for the Sunday ticket package. WWE likes to spout off that they are on that level when the truth is it's not even close.

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  51. I've been ripped off sooooo many times by those things.


    Kinda like how I feel when I buy a TNA PPV.

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  52. There was just a blurb about this. Vince still has final say and is too much of a control freak to let that go, so a distracted Vince means a harried HHH running around backstage after all 18 Raw script rewrites relaying the new plan to the talent.

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  53. Yep. The stock was always overvalued and it was only a matter of time until the bubble burst. Vince blowing his asinine prediction of doubling/tripling the TV deal did it.

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  54. Honestly, CAN they really purge? In a way that would save a decent amount of money?

    It seems to me like the talent they have is pretty goddamned good, but there's not a LOT.

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  55. I really wish the WWE would bring back the fired/quit/suspended masked man.

    They had a perfect opportunity a few years ago with cena and nexus . . But naturally went in a different direction

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  56. He had a string of great matches in 1992, so yeah, kind of unfair to tag him a horsefucker.

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  57. Don't forget "The Candy Man" and Arachni-Man. Poor Brad never had a chance. Born to a hick family a decade after that could've helped him, and able to work the kind of styles that wouldn't be popular until about ten years after his prime.

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  58. It would be a great finish if a) they had only booked it occasionally and b) sometimes they had a guy get the one in those last 15 seconds. I know there was a Benoit/Scorpio match were it happened, but to sell it as a finish for a title match, they needed to actually have someone win the title at the last second and make people believe it as a thing that can happen. I will say that it worked out in the Flair/Windham match from the Ultimate Flair collection, but this was just a poorly executed and lazy way to protect Steiner.

    Also, if I remember right, it finished at like 27 minutes because they called that "TV time". But then they had a commercial break and a wrap up. Even 8 year old me was like, "shouldn't letting the match to at least 30 have been their priority?"

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  59. richard householderMay 17, 2014 at 9:36 AM

    I remember for two reasons. First was Hervey and the cell phone. The second was being really happy Pillman was gone. I was not a fan, even at 11 years old.

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  60. Cable companies will happily let Vince come crawling back.

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  61. El Gigante as a giant masked Midnight Rider would have been the greatest gimmick of all time.

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  62. Already been made.

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  63. To bad he keeps getting banned.

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  64. No, it most definently is not.

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  65. There is no doubt about that. Like someone else had said, whoever did the TV rights forecast was f'ing terrible and deserves to be fired Mr. McMahon style.

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  66. James M. FabianoMay 17, 2014 at 10:00 AM

    I think it was a spinoff from the theories about Paul being a misogynist in real life (all the woman abuse spots in ECW).

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  67. James M. FabianoMay 17, 2014 at 10:04 AM

    I think it was around the time of this Clash, actually. I guess they were prepping him for that Spartacus gimmick that Jim Herd was fond of? Funny fact: said Ben-Hur ripoff was heard on a local station here at the time for an airing of an old Robin Hood movie.

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  68. ASM was great, and ASM2 was just as great. I see why some people aren't in love with it or anything, but if you're a Spidey fan (esp. a 90's Spidey fan like me), the movies are perfectly done. I'm getting real tired of people trying to find reasons to hate this franchise because petty cynical reasons. They tried to do that to 'Man of Steel' too, but that movie turned out pretty good as well.

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  69. James M. FabianoMay 17, 2014 at 10:07 AM

    Isn't this where That Randy Savage Story came from originally?

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  70. James M. FabianoMay 17, 2014 at 10:09 AM

    The drunk Lex story could fit here as well. Let's think of more.
    /Did you know Yokozuna was going to join the Hart Foundation?

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  71. I thought they really blew it with Pillman. After the Wargames it just begged for him to have a blood feud with the Horseman. Yet, this is how that feud ended for him.

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  72. Since you mentioned Japan, it should be noted that David Lee Roth spends a lot of time out of the year living there and even he went back to Van Halen.

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  73. If this proves anything, it's that nobody should take the opinions of Wall Street "analysts" at face value. After all, these are the same jackasses who kept misinforming people about the value of Enron and kept telling them with a straight face "Go with Enron, they're so hot right now they can't possibly do any wrong".

    And that's not even taking into account all the times they've put over the "genius" and "financial wizardry" of Bernie Madoff and Lenny Dykstra while being completely oblivious to what those guys were really doing.

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  74. I'd love to see their financial statements.

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  75. The solution here is to hire the Kiss Demon for some "Main Events."

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  76. Obvious things are obvious (drugs, alcohol) but sorry, if you think something like wrestling is too titillating because you are lazy and refuse to be a parent, then by all means you are not a parent. If you think wrestling (now) is too titillating because you are a strict weirdo....You are archaic and regressive to our culture and I will disregard most of your requests anyhow.

    Granted this is all directed at parents/kids in the 9-16 age range.
    Spicolli....For all I know you may be one of few parents that have it right. From my personal encounters (which is all we have to go on) parents who shield their children from such things have groupthink mentality towards issues that would require actual parenting instead of mindcontrolling their own offspring.
    Not letting children search and find their own passions and likes and dislikes is as criminal as feeding them poison, imo.

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  77. I'd love to know why they even have an office in New York City.

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  78. James M. FabianoMay 17, 2014 at 10:28 AM

    Refresh my memory...was there ever a Flair vs. Steiner match in the Big Poppa Pump days?

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  79. ASM2 was pretty terrible. Probably the worst comic book film since Iron Man 2. Only redeeming quality is Garfield and Stone. Wish we could transplant them into a good Spidey movie.

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  80. I remember reading these back in the day and being really perplexed at the hatred for dusty rhodes. Good to know Scott came around on that.

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  81. Man of Steel? I haven't actually seem asm2.

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  82. MoS is a lot better than ASM2. You didn't like it?

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  83. What would firing JTG and Yoshi Tatsu really do from a fan standpoint?


    And yea, mass purging of talent probably doesn't look very good.

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  84. Please stop trying to come up with clever nicknames.

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  85. Your_Favourite_LoserMay 17, 2014 at 11:00 AM

    i think i understand things:

    vince is in control b/c he owns the class A+ stock, while everyone else merely owns the class B+ stock

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  86. No. The tornado death in the middle ruined the whole rest of the movie for me. On the plus side, it's still the third best superman movie ever!

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  87. Even if you hated MoS, you'll probably still like it more than ASM2, it is that bad.


    Why didn't you like the tornado scene? I loved it.

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  88. Jesus, why? The characterization made no sense. I've always liked the Kent's connecting superman to humanity, but telling him to just stand around when he could prevent people being killed is just stupid. And the whole sacrificing himself for the dog thing was so contrived.

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  89. And Bob's Your UncleMay 17, 2014 at 11:22 AM

    From Business Insider: "Additionally, the company said in a statement yesterday that it will need 1.3 million to 1.4 million subscribers to its over-the-top service to replace revenues it is losing from its monthly pay-per-view events, which previously cost around $50 but are now available to WWE Network subscribers as part of their $9.99 monthly fee. Currently, the WWE Network only has 670,000 subscribers.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com...
    "
    Looks like the yardsticks for the Network's success have been moved. 1.4 million. Not a chance they get to that. No way, no how.

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  90. HHH+ has tons of B+ stock

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  91. He sacrificed himself for his son, not the dog. If Clark saves him, then the secret is out. Not only did he not think the world was ready for something like that, he didn't want his teenage son to go through that.

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  92. The company is going to lose $50 million this year.


    And the company actually lost about $600 million in value....Vince lost $350 million in value by himself.

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  93. Various livers, tripe, haggus, kidneys, sweetbreads.. And I go to Chinatown for dim sum a few times a year and there's some pretty exotic stuff there that I've tried, although I couldn't tell you the name of any of it,


    I don't think that I've ever eaten any wrestling related foods.


    I haven't been to a KFC in like 15 years or more, but otherwise I would totally try the double down, even if I don't think I'd like it much. I'm not big on most fried stuff.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Oh ha I posted this in the wrong forum.

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  95. Your_Favourite_LoserMay 17, 2014 at 11:24 AM

    so what you're saying...

    ...is that hhh is a B+ player

    ReplyDelete
  96. It's a long weekend, I got started early.

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  97. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryMay 17, 2014 at 11:25 AM

    "Sadly, the story would turn tragic when the winner of the Ric Flair lookalike contest would ask the kid to join the Four Horsemen lookalikes, before viciously turning on him."


    Still hilarious all these years later.

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  98. Your_Favourite_LoserMay 17, 2014 at 11:26 AM

    go drunk, home - you're mister

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  99. Didn't they run out there to get the stupid dog? It's a dumb and unnecessary change to the concept. Is the plan to just have Clark hang around for a couple of hundred years until the world is 'ready'? Just let shitloads of people die in natural disasters that he could easily save? Wouldn't somebody feel really guilty if they did that? Yeah, I could've prevented a huge amount of suffering, but my dad told me to be a carpenter instead. It's so dumb.

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  100. And Bob's Your UncleMay 17, 2014 at 11:28 AM

    I think they may have no choice but to either kill the network, or divorce the ppv's/special events from the network and run the PPV business separately thus making the Network more like a souped up 24/7 archive with a few original shows sprinkled in like Legends House. They'll need to decide soon. It only gets harder to do with every $10 "Special event" that passes by.

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  101. Your_Favourite_LoserMay 17, 2014 at 11:28 AM

    that's why i stick with penny candy and penny loafers, and penny, inspector gadget's niece

    ReplyDelete
  102. He'll want to rock and roll all night.

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  103. And Bob's Your UncleMay 17, 2014 at 11:32 AM

    This all does eerily remind me of late 90's WCW.

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  104. They can fire guys now, they have a nice size roster with NXT.

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  105. I don't think a teenager can handle that stuff. I think the worry was that he would become a science experiment or worse, end up like Zod. And he does eventually go around the world saving people when he grows up.

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  106. The last major chopping block spree I remember was in July of 2011

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  107. Your_Favourite_LoserMay 17, 2014 at 11:35 AM

    all night, yes. but no partying every day

    me, i like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... i can only rock from like 1-3.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Abeyance gets another run.

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  109. The best solution.

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  110. Should have released the Network worldwide on it's first day.

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  111. The stock will be selling.

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  112. It just never rang true to me.

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  113. Nope, never happened.

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  114. And a 70s action movie.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074415/

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  115. OK, failure compared to the rest of the group. 3 world champs, the 2 guys who founded the nWo, Rhodes has done all right for himself......you know what, there's a case to be made that Mero had a slightly better career than Rhodes. I take it back; the man's not a failure. Even if he never hit the heights some of these guys did.

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  116. Wow a ton of talent of this card seems the booking was shit. I loved how WCW always mixed it up though with EATON getting a shot! C'mon that's pretty sweet. And on paper Sting vs Koloff and Luger vs Muta sounds pretty damn sweet, along with Flair Eaton.
    And what's with all the hate on the Top Ten? Sounds like a decent concept, with built in feuds with guys jockeying for position.

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  117. Oh, he's definitely not a failure. Didn't a knee injury or something like that derail his career?

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  118. If you wanna nitpick, Sable derailed his career, the knee injury didn't help.

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  119. I let my 5 yr old boy watch the Top 50 OMG Moments in WWE on Netflix. It was his first time sitting down and watching wrestlig. It got him hooked and he still watches it today (2yrs later).

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  120. Very good point. I always thought Mero was the kind of wrestler who you could always have on the roster. Not everyone is going to be Austin or Cena, and Mero was fine in the middle of shows.

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  121. I was eating, dammit

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