In a recent email someone questions Edge's HOF worthiness. Am I missing something? I admit to being an Edge mark but look at the resume. Forget even counting the obscene amount of titles, but he was a pioneer of the extremes of the attitude era with ladder/TLC matches, was the inaugural MITB guy, won a Royal Rumble, main-evented Wrestlemania, and put on countless 4-5 classics in both singles and tag matches including the TLCs with the Hardys and Dudleys, WM matches with foley and Taker, and his long feud with Cena. Not even mentioning that Edge & Christian is probably a top 5 all time tag team. I guess my question is, what argument can one have against Edge?
The main one is that the only guy from his era that can be legitimately counted as moving the needle is John Cena, due to the company de-emphasizing individual people in favor of just promoting "Hey, WWE is coming, buy tickets!" He also didn't have the longevity due to his back injury and was injury prone while active.
That being said, I would certainly vote for him and I think he gets in based on ringwork, historical impact to a certain degree (ie, pioneering the whole Money in the Bank thing as a character trait) and certainly for being a draw in what limited sense that anyone CAN be a draw these days.
Edge was entertaining as hell on the mic, something I can't say for Bret or Sting.
ReplyDeleteProbably Savage's best work in WCW and a great example of how wasn't done in the ring. When he wasn't working with Hogan Savage's WCW run was pretty solid. Macho Pimp was a great image makeover for him.
ReplyDeleteI would love to hear some legitimately argue Edge wasn't a hall of famer. Just to see how ridiculous it looks.
ReplyDeleteI really don't see how this is even debatable. He's a Hall of Famer.
ReplyDeleteIs this the WON HOF or whatever it is? Because he's already in the WWE HOF, right? (Which wouldn't preclude an argument as to whether he SHOULD be, but considering how low and random the standards for that one are, I half expect Miz Girl and Brock Lesnar Guy to get inducted eventually when they decide to make it all about the fans some year.)
ReplyDeleteIn any case, I agree. I don't see an argument against Edge as an HOFer by any standard. Scott said one of the points against him would be longevity, but he was a bona fide main eventer for, what, six years? And not only that, but he was the last "top guy" on Smackdown that made that show feel nearly as relevant as Raw during the brand split. And like the e-mailer said, half of one of the greatest tag teams of at least the last 25 years, if not ever.
Certainly not enough to keep him out of any HOF, but the one thing missing is that absolute no-brainer, all-time classic singles match. But he had enough 4-star matches to drown out that argument, not to mention some of the greatest spotfest multi-man matches ever conceived.
This email sickens me. You think you know him?
ReplyDeleteNot only that, but the finest kazoo work in the history of the business.
ReplyDeleteHis 24 match with Taker is an all time classic. Then Michaels had to upstage it and now nobody remembers. According to Edge, a few weeks before, him and Taker had their first ever match and it was a 40 minute classic. I wish it was filmed.
ReplyDelete1997 anti-America Bret was better than any Edge persona.
ReplyDeleteOn this day, I see clearly that the idea of Edge not being a Hall of Famer is ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteI suppose that could be argued as an all-timer. Certainly great by any reasonable standard. I've watched it several times and while I'm not normally one for match rating, I'd put it in the 4.5ish range.
ReplyDeleteEdge as a HOF? No way.
ReplyDeleteSexton Hardcastle, though...you betcha!
By far their best match -- a hell of a break and Savage's last great one.
ReplyDeleteIt was good stuff, but even then Bret was a little rough around the edges on the mic. Even by his own admission in his book, he thought he was being overrated. (I think it was in response to someone saying he was the best promo in the business in '97.) I suppose it could be argued that was more compelling than anything Edge did, but over the course of their careers it's no contest.
ReplyDeleteI refuse to recognize the legitimacy of a hall of fame that does not include Mr koko ware.
ReplyDeleteThank you and good night
It was the last truly great Savage match huh?
ReplyDeleteFair enough.
ReplyDeleteIt makes you wonder where the hell did that El Dandy promo come from, though!
I'm drawing a blank on that one. It sounds vaguely familiar.
ReplyDeleteAll arguments for Vince's HOF are ridiculous. It's mostly based on if you're on good terms with him.
ReplyDeleteProbably boredom. Bret was being given nothing in WCW so he was just doing things to stay busy and have fun for a while. Just like Jericho before he left.
ReplyDeleteLong live the zoo.
ReplyDeleteI'd put Edge in. This is in spite of his lack of drawing power, his AWFUL face runs (especially with the "Spear!" gimmick), and his fairly short time on top of the card. He had enough memorable feuds, matches, and title reigns to justify his inclusion (much the same as Sting, I'd argue--although Edge didn't have the longevity or overall level of significance as Sting).
ReplyDeleteI'm on the fence about Edge as a hall of fame talent but he definitely had a hall of fame push.
ReplyDeleteThey wanted to make him a big deal from the beginning and from 03 or so up until his retirement, I'd argue that nobody had a more consistent push other than I guess Cena. Even Orton had more downtime and periods where he was doing basically nothing than Edge who was consistently getting good angles and quality gimmicks. He was the first one to get MitB, he was allowed to push his character a little further than most during the PG era, when his heat was fading a bit, they let him borrow Vickie, the best heat magnet in the business at the time.
I guess people ignore the overpush mostly because he was a mostly well liked guy (sit down Matt) who generally brought the goods when he needed to but his push way outweighed his talents.
Sting's best mic work was when he didn't talk for over a year.
ReplyDeleteHey, what are your thoughts on Edge's push?
ReplyDeleteEdge is probably the biggest overachiever in WWE history. Arguably, no one has had a better career/achievements than he has.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised he kept getting pushed the way he did, usually that number of injures would result in them souring on him. But every time he returned he was right back in the thick of things.
ReplyDeleteHe had sex with Lita in the middle of the ring, and and showed her breast. That's enough of a qualifier for me. But seriously, personally I found him quite boring to watch face or heel, his career makes him Hall of Fame material.
ReplyDeleteNot to sound like a complete asshole, but on what planet could Edge and Christian be considered a Top 5 Tag Team? Even top 5 WWE Tag Team would induce eye rolls, but of all time (which is what the WON HOF is all bout) -- better than all but 4 teams from the territory days, Mexico, Japan, contemporary indys? Top 75 - maybe.
ReplyDeleteI down voted this.
ReplyDeleteBecause SODAS RULE!!! That's why.
ReplyDeleteDid any of those other 74 teams do the (for the benefit of those with flash photography) 5 second pose? Didn't think so.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair HBK has done that to a lot of people.
ReplyDeleteUm, because they were totally reeking with awesomeness. Can't say that about anyone else, now can you?
ReplyDeleteYeah, I really just can't think of anything else. Did he really even have another decent one?
ReplyDeleteAlso, one of the only guys to win King of the Ring and a Royal Rumble(Austin, HHH, and Lesnar being the others, iirc.)
ReplyDelete"when his heat was fading a bit, they let him borrow Vickie, the best heat magnet in the business at the time."
ReplyDeleteThat's revisionist history. Vickie became a heat magnet BECAUSE OF her allegiance with Edge. She was not over until that happened.
I place more legitimacy in a Hall of Fame that includes Koko B. Ware than one that doesn't include Sting and Edge.
ReplyDeleteIs Edge the only guy to win KOTR, a Rumble, and MITB? If he were still wrestling he'd be out of achievements to win
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to argue against Edge as a Hall of Famer, but I'd argue against his as a first-ballot Hall of Famer. All of his best matches came against other HOF-caliber wrestlers (Angle, Hardys/Dudleys, Cena, late-period Undertaker, the Smackdown Six, Jericho). He doesn't have the record of carrying lesser wrestlers to great matches that the no-doubt HOFers like Bret, Shawn, and Flair do.
ReplyDeleteI never once had a problem with the Edge as HOFer talk, it was the "him being more deserving than a Sting or Bret" which reeked of bullshit
ReplyDeletewhoa, whoa...Bubba Ray & Devon are much lesser wrestlers than Edge. Dudley Boyz were more gimmick/character than quality, like LOD
ReplyDeleteI don't think Bubba Ray is a lesser wrestler than Edge. Certainly Devon though. But the Dudleys as a team produced good matches with a variety of opponents.
ReplyDeleteI think the fact that as soon as he retired Smackdown went to shit means something.
ReplyDeleteDudleys > E&C. If we are going that route
ReplyDeleteWell, I'd say top 10 or top 15, rather than top 75. But yeah, I don't think they're top 5 at all.
ReplyDeleteLong live the stream
ReplyDeleteI'd agree that the Dudleys were a better team and a historically more significant team.
ReplyDeleteThese Hall of Fame threads today have been legitimately shocking to me.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that it seems to be generally accepted that Sting, Ultimate Warrior and Goldberg are either questionable or outright unqualified as Hall of Famers is stunning.
I guess I'm pretty out of touch with the insider crowd.
So ww agree on that. Now Hardys over Dudleys?
ReplyDeleteThey totally ripped that off of High Voltage.
ReplyDeleteThe Dudleys are a Hall-of-Fame worthy tag team that definitely held up their end of the TLC matches; they didn't need to be carried through those, even though the other four guys were superior wrestlers outside of the gimmick setting.
ReplyDeleteI'd still go E&C over Dudleys from a pure workrate perspective. Dudleys matches were very repeptitive to me (both in WWE & ECW), even though I LOVED their heel act in ECW. I do agree that they are the more historically relevent team on stats alone (both WWE tag titles, WCW, ECW, TNA, NWA, IWGP...HOLY SHIT)
ReplyDeleteI just get sick of everybody bringing in " poor drawing factor" to use against guys like Bret or Sting, then say Edge is an automatic, not even mentioning if he in fact drew anything
ReplyDeleteI love Edge, but I could see him not getting in the WoN Hall of Fame, based on the criteria in the ever reliable Wikipedia.
ReplyDeleteRing Work: Good, but a LOT of gimmicks in many of his high profile matches. Also, how does being in a tag team for a fair portion of your career affect your candidacy? Great tag team wrestler, but I thought he was closer to good as a singles wrestler.
Historical Significance: As the email mentions, the tag team battles with E&C, Hardyz, and Dudleyz were a strong #2 reason for my fandom during that period, especially the ladder and TLC matches. Memorable spots (e.g. flaming table w/Foley, inaugural MITB cash-in, Matt Hardy realistic storyline that really catapulted Edge as a singles star, flash photography). Again, not sure if the WoN voters would view it as too gimmicky.
Longevity: More than a decade seems fine to me.
Ability to Attract Viewers: This, as Scott indicated, is a potential weakness: Edge did have several title runs, but were these that popular in terms of ratings/buyrates? I generally associate Edge with Smackdown during the brand extension at a time when Smackdown (in terms of business/prestige rather than wrestling) was the secondary show. How many title reigns would he have gotten without the brand split/two titles? He never seemed like "the guy", even on Smackdown when he was champ. WWE never seemed fully committed to him, as his MITB reign lasted last than a month. Comedy promos were good but could drag, and his singles promos average out to me between OK and good: lots of intensity (hair flips) but sometimes rambling. Never really connected as a face (not fatal by any means but could be a factor).
barely anyone is a "draw" it should only be based on their art
ReplyDeleteRight. How many individual performers in history were actual "draws?" Four? Five?
ReplyDeleteSuch a fucking badass match. Great chemistry
ReplyDeleteTop 5 WWE tag team seems reasonable -- Hart Foundation, Bulldogs, Demolition... who else should go in ahead of E&C or the Hardys? LOD and the Steiners did their best work elsewhere, and the New Age Outlaws weren't all that good despite being way over. The Rockers were never a good promo, and nobody's been together long enough post-Attitude era to be in the conversation.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if the MeltzerHOF has a tag team division, but if not, there's no WAY the Dudleyzzzz or Hardyzzzzzzzzz go in as singles. Complete insanity.
ReplyDeleteTake two guys both so obsessive with planning things out in detail and what else can you get but a classic?
ReplyDeleteYou sounded like a complete asshole.
ReplyDeleteI saw Macho Pimp at a concert in 1999, before he came back to television. That's literally how he dressed in real life.
ReplyDeleteFun fact: the first Rated R Superstar Shirt is the 10th best selling wrestling shirt of all time.
ReplyDeleteSheamus. Technically Bret co won a Rumble too. And Did Duggan win a tournament for the crown or steel it or win it from someone, I can't remember.
ReplyDeleteYeah, no idea what alex is talking about there. Vickie was just another middle of the road Authority figure before the Edge pairing. The biggest reason why it worked was because Edge was so underhanded and shameless to be maneuvering himself in a relationship with VICKIE GUERRERO of all people to get authoritative power.
ReplyDeleteHe was right about Pittsburgh, I will say that much.
ReplyDeleteI just googled this list. I'm surprised that nWo and Hulkamania weren't numbers 1 and 2. But I also question the accuracy of this list.
ReplyDeleteIn a bizarre way I saw it all as a beautiful tribute to Eddie. Edge took lie, cheat, steal to a new level.
ReplyDeleteRandom HOF discussion: if you have a vote for the NFL HOF fame, would you put in Terrell Davis? I wouldn't, but I could totally understand the argument for doing so.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't
ReplyDeleteFor a 2-3 season stretch he was one of the best RBs ever. I would say he's more deserving than Thurman Thomas, Barry Sanders, and Jerome Bettis (not sure if the last 2 are in, but pretty sure they are.)
ReplyDeleteI Would. Man won SB MVP with a fucking migrane.
ReplyDelete"I can't see"
ReplyDelete"Don't worry, you're just the decoy"
Fuck migraines.
More often than not, people overthink these things.
ReplyDeleteEdge is HoF'er. Case closed.
So is Sting, and I never really liked Sting.
ReplyDeleteHe likes you.
ReplyDeleteHe told me.
I agree. Whenever he would come back he did not miss a beat
ReplyDeleteDuggen beat Haku when it was a championship from 89-91
ReplyDeleteHe seems like a guy that likes everyone. I don't mind his workrate, and he's really nice in person, but outside of a couple cases (HBK in 96 is the only one I can think of off hand) I always hated the pure babyface. I backed the heels before I knew what a "smark" was. Mainly because back then heels got most of the offense in, while the face waited to make the comeback. I've never been one to cheer for sympathetic characters.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Raven? 27 WWE title reigns, and he passes the Koko B Ware test.
ReplyDeleteMore deserving than Barry Sanders? Get the fuck outta here with that BS.
ReplyDeleteDoes Chyna belong in the HoF?
ReplyDeleteNot "Will she ever BE in the HoF?", the answer to which is unequivocally no.
I get sick of the whole "poor drawing factor" period. Some people just happen to get stuck in a period where the promotion (or THIS BUSINESS as a whole) is down. Would have whoever had gotten the nod over Sting, Bret, Diesel, and HBK drawn any better? No, because the whole company sucked.
ReplyDeleteIn any logical promotion, the Savage feud puts DDP in position to face Hogan and make a legit main event star. But its WCW in 97
ReplyDelete#LOLNWOWINS
ReplyDeleteWell, they were building to Hogan-Sting at Starrcade and remember, no one honestly expected WCW to drop the ball with that as bad as they did.
ReplyDeleteSting dropped the ball.
ReplyDeleteI think he had a couple of decent matches with Bret in 98. Certainly nothing special but they weren't awful for what they were.
ReplyDeleteSting certainly did his part by not having had thought about how to translate his brooding, in-the-rafters schtick into an in-ring style. I mean fans are basically hanging on everything he does at that point, but he didn't put a new twist on it. Hogan and Nick Patrick certainly did their parts as well.
ReplyDeleteEVERYONE screwed it up though -- they really needed to have that match worked out from start to finish ala Hogan/Warrior, since the whole show basically was hanging on it. They just went out and winged everything but the planned finish it seems and so when that finish went off badly, they were basically left with nothing.
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