Character motivation I, as the common fan, could buy into.
The guy killed kayfabe dead on The Price Is Right.
"In 2011, Baker self-published a cookbook, which included recipes and stories from his time in wrestling"That must have been a pretty bizarre cook book."I once killed a man in the ring with my heart punch back in 1972, and whenever I think about it it reminds me of my extra zesty lemon bars, the trick is not to let the sweetness override the natural citrus flavor of the lemons. The first time I made them was after a Texas death match with Stan Hansen..."
Totally with you on that one
Nah. Nothing wrong with heels showing face to the press in that era.
Maybe, but he won a wonderful array of prizes!
The BoD Hell in a Cell PPV happening two days before my birthday? THAT is absolutely MUST-SEE! Well done, Bayless.
One day at a time! (or 1 week at a time). First step is to admit you have a problem! (Well, that is how the post sounded anyway) :)
I've tried to watch SNME on the Network but get bored after 10 minutes. That whole Rock n Wrestling Era is too goofy for me,
I remember a story in one of the Apter mags about Arn Anderson standing up at an Anderson family dinner, declaring that he absolutely WOULD become the WCW World Heavyweight Champion and everyone at the table looking away because they didn't think it would ever happen. Even the Apter mags, the markiest of mark mags, wouldn't accept the hypothetical that Arn Anderson would ever be world champ.
I didn't watch Raw again, so I assume this was the greatest show ever. Reading the results it seems like they are building to a fantastic Orton face turn!
For me, I am aware that they are in a "cool down period", just like pretty much every single year around this time, so I am taking a little break. You know, instead of the alternative, which is banging my head against the wall wondering why it's not WM 17 every single week. Sometimes, acceptance is a good thing! Maybe this weekend's PPV will be strong, and maybe things will pick up soon. In the mean time, no thank you. :)
Dolph Ziggler is the closest thing the WWE has to an Arm Anderson type right now. The WWE needs more Arm Anderson types.
Ahhh VCR timers! The bane of my early childhood existence.
Good call on the FOX one, I forgot that happened to air at 9pm
A shame we didn't get to see the TV title match between Lanny Poffo and the father of LT Falk!
When are they not in a "cool down period"? Does the whole year revolve around the night after Raw? When was the last time there were 4 straight weeks of good Monday Night Raws?
I guess he recently passed.
Again, that depends on your definition of "good". We got spoiled rotten by the Attitude Era. For me, if there's even just 3 solid matches, and maybe 1 good angle advancement, I consider it a good show, since you know, it's free. Doesn't have to be a blow away mega show every single time.
Lol, I'm not leaving till Wednesday morning at 5am I've been trying I close on a condo and getting ready today.
Of course it doesn't have to be a mega show every time, but surely something different should happen from week to week. The last 4 weeks of Raw have been the exact same things happening and the announcers acting like its the first time. Can Cena and Ambrose coexist? Nope - we've proven that 4 times now. I'm usually a big apologist for WWE and talk up the good over the bad, but even I can't excuse how dire shit is right now. Not complaining about the in-ring action btw (well, except that the SAME PEOPLE are wrestling every week), just the lack of effort put into making things interesting or doing anything different whatsoever.
I e seen 3 year old wrestle pillows and have a match with more psychology and less botches than the Bella's match will have this Sunday. Just awful stuff. I tuned into the show just in time for the AMBROSE prop comic skit. Really terrible. Killed that crowd. They did their best to take AMBROSE down a peg. Let's see if he can rise above like Bryan did so many times.
They've been in a cool down period for 10 years. When do they heat back up again? When Vince McMahon dies I guess?
Vince has another 35 years in the tank.
How's he supposed to entertain all the young fellas without prop comedy? Children are the future and you have to know how to entertain them.Prop comedy comes first, that's beginner stuff. When Ambrose matches that he'll move on to poop jokes. Poop jokes are a little tougher and it's easy to lose the kids so it may take Dean some time to master it.Once Deans got the poop jokes down he can started doing wacky slideshow montages. I'm sure he'll pick it up fast though. He seems like a natural.Long story short, don't worry about Ambrose, he's got all the tools to be a main eventer. Hell, if we're lucky he might be our first main event ventriloquist in years!
Thats not really true because during the guest era he looked very comfortable in the ring with Hugh Jackman during his segments both as a heel and as a face.The only thing holding Doplh back at this point IMO is his offense looking very weak and his lack of a credible finisher.His bump and feed is obviously his strong suit.He works a good comeback.He throws a very good worked punch.His signature spots are just not impactful enough
The last two weeks I haven't watched have been the best two Raws of the fall! Shows don't have to be blow away awesome to be good, I just don't have to watch them and they turn out great!
"t-shirt and panties". I LOL'd.
It was probably Natalya's doing. Remember, she got a great match out of Charlotte, and since then Charlotte hasn't had a single memorable match.
Vince would ignore your question and tell you "it isn't a BELT, it's a CHAMPIONSHIP or TITLE, damn it!!!!"
Waitaminute...Ox ordered a steak after losing his teeth and GARVIN in the idiot??
Because people are sheep who join in the crowd and bully dudes via mob mentality because they think it makes them cool.
It's not like he lost a shampoo commercial to Garvin. Why's he so pissed? I don't get it.
Stone Cold Steve Austin's false theory about everybody needing to be world champion or not be in the business at all has led to an age where people win world titles and never are regarded as champion level guys after that like The Miz. Arn and Bobby were fine where they were.
''Yeah but at least they made Mabel MEAN something''The best thing I've ever read on this board.I know what you're trying to say (they booked him like a beast) but still.
Strike Force 2.0....we'll be coming after those tag titles.........just as soon as I can find my partner! *looks around, big smile for the camera and thumbs up*
On the Steiners being stiff, not much changed in the WWF. They did go a tad easier on the stars, but the jobbers still suffered. I remember an I think All American Wrestling from 1993, and they were taking turns stiffing the jobbers they were against trying to get a rise out of each other. Like Scott would kill the kid, look over at Rick who was laughing, then tag him in and he'd do the same
Just like Elvis, Rock Star Gary never dies!
Let's see how well your voice carries when you're in an iron lung, Gary.
I think he'd have more of a chance if he didn't look like my 52 year old history teacher when he was 34.
Wins/losses may not matter in a fake sport, but belts used to and still should. Of course a belt should be (made out to be) a big deal if two guys are fake fighting over it.What's the point of having belts if they don't matter? Why have a champion lose every match?
That snme was classic. Set up wm angles perfectly. Still remember it exactly and it was over 25 years ago.
Profits? How much did they lose in Hogan's last year? 30-40 million?
Man dey got funkay on our ass
I see that I'm still being buried by BOD Creative. Gonna go complain about it on Twitter.
Raw is bad, but can you imagine how much more stale it would be if they never broke up The Shield? They would still be doing six-man tag matches week after week after week.
Her PPV matches against Kaitlyn last year were mostly *** or so, that is very very good for Divas. So it's at least useful to keep her around.
Chrisley must faint every time she applies the Black Widow wearing those.
Blog Otters being an admitted troll on us all. He's hardly a timid innocent
I bet Flair saw Austin as a great guy to trade the title with before winning ot back. Would've made him.
Because despite several people here trying to stop him rubbing everyone the wrong way, he persisted in doing so.
Or because he invited it repeatedly for months, by trying to take on a whole bunch of people with his antagonistic writing. The reaction wasn't bullying. He got what he claimed to a be wanted.
I like the late 80s and early 90s stuff, but that's from when I became a fan.
"I like steak, not soup!" Well, you can't fault the guy there.
RSG no-sells piss in the face by spitting it back in Vinson's face.
< hooks sound board and amplifier to iron lung
*Steps on Gary's fingers*
< performs the Matrix pose and grabs on with toes
RSG doing the Col. Parker climb on the apron 3 times in one match? I must have been in overdrive mode doing that.
its too bad I like the war dance to early 90's rap intro. I really really like the flow of their song.
*Lifts foot and watches Gary plummet 80 feet in slow motion like Hans at the end of Die Hard.*
Arn jobbed to everyone under the sun and never won anything more major than tag-titles and the tv titles. He lost to the goddamn Renegade for jeebus' sake. That's not in the same universe as HBK/Nash/Hall.
I remember being shocked to find out that he was less than a year older than Nash and Sting and about a month older than Hall.
First Clash for me was the first Clash ever. The first SNME I remember was the one where Bundy broke Hogan's ribs.
Has to be an insult. Ray Lewis has NOT improved. Why can't they teach the guy to speak before putting him on live television?
Really? I just assumed he was like 70 now b/c he looks it. He looked 45 back in the late 80s.
I wouldn't say it was "sad". In fact, it probably worked out better for everyone (well, except WCW), including the fans, that he only became a HUGE star in the WWF.
But RSG bounces off concrete like Kofi Kingston, lands on Eric Bischoff's chopper, and speeds away!
He was offbeat in general, but nice when I met him. Probably not the right time to ask it, but what were his best matches in your opinion?I also want to know...did he start his career as a face who kissed referees? My dad keeps insisting he remembers a wrestling "Ox" who did this, and refuses to agree that it was Baker.In closing, all I have to say is..WHAM! Can your heart stand it?!!?
Even in the Hulkamania era, heels were a bit "nicer" when they appeared on talk shows.
Him and Bob Barker = the best looking guys in Television City that day!Seriously, I'm glad they found his appearance. But it does remind me of Randy Amasia on Whew!, in that they finally found it just before they passed on. At least Ox may have got to see his TPIR appearance though.
The Hollywood Blonds were ACTUALLY broken up because they were positioned as top heels for Flair and Arn Anderson, with Flair's first TV match in the company, and the Clash drew a disastrous 2.6 rating, the lowest of all-time. The main event the least watched TBS special main event ever. The Clash would draw a 3.6 rating two months later. The Blonds weren't a draw whatsoever, so why keep them together? Workrate doesn't equal money.
The first SNME that I remember was XXX which had Sid turning on Hogan (I had already been a fan for 2 years or so, so I may have seen an earlier one but this is the first that I remember). First Clash was XII. One of the many shows in 90 led off by Freebirds vs Southern Boys/Young Pistols and I was so excited for Sting vs Black Scorpion thinking we were getting all the answers that night.
*Looks in astonishment*That's some Grade A coke Jobber is giving those boys.
This isnt tied directly to this discussion (more about WCW/WWF equivalents) but from watching Clashes a lot recently I realized that Tommy Rich was totally WCW's Tito Santana. He was a guy that always lost on bigger shows but won on the B shows and had a title history that newer watchers would never believe. I never thought of Tito as a title guy but he had already been IC and Tag champs right along with Tommy actually having been NWA champ.
Arn's on the short-list of people who have pinned Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair on TV. Might be bigger than a fluke World Title.
That list includes... uh... Sting, The Rock, Arn Anderson, The Undertaker, and Bill Goldberg, that it?
He's probably thinking of an actual wrestling ox, akin to a wrestling bear. They were very popular in Texas. Many a match was won with a quick go behind.
Three champions got pinned, as per usual, and why Ambrose had to take the pin in the main event when Kane was in the match is baffling.
Haha he did look like my 5th grade 50 year old teacher. Glasses and everything
When I saw the Brain Busters in the WWF I was confused because they were essentially job guys who were given a manager and title run. I know differently now, but back then, to a kid who thought 'Star' meant The Ultimate Warrior or Hulk Hogan, they were just two hairy guys with weird names who looked like they could be on my dad's bowling team.
I believe everyone should have the drive and ambition to be in a position like that, even if it's unrealistic since everyone can't be a Main Eventer. If you're happy just being there and don't care one way or another, then I can see someone with that mentality taking offense to it.
SNME: Sid turning on Hogan, Heenan screaming "Heellllp me. Heeeeellllp me!" then Sid alligator arms Hogan and walks out.CLASH: Clash XX. I remember it being the same night as Summerslam 92, but Wikipedia shows 2 days later. First thing I remember is Larry Zybysko hitting someone (Eaton or Arn) with his cast and costing them the match.
I feel like I may regret it.
All Razor Ramon held was the IC title a few times, Hall had no problem doing jobs. Arn Anderson doesn't go over Hulk Hogan unless he's Flair's buddy - if that's the 123 Kid people are still complaining today.
I just find it interesting that Steve Austin becomes the biggest name in wrestling and Ric Flair was going to push him 5 years ago, while Ric Flair also realizes Shawn Michaels and Triple H are the best wrestlers in the world.
I forgot you're irrational Bret/Flair hater guy. Never mind this argument.
Nah, he was born in Sept 58. Hall was born in Oct 58 and both Nash and Sting were in 59. All that is if wikipedia can be believed.
I don't see how it's irrational to point out that Arn got a pretty good deal out of being a Flair buddy but the Clique are still shit on like they only ever worked hard or lost to each other. How is Scott Hall any worse than Arn Anderson?
I can watch it now and used to watch it then but definitely enjoyed JCP way more. To paraphrase Christopher Daniels, "after watching The Horsemen and Dusty, WWF looked like a whole bunch of ticklebutt."
Notable that Watts did help push Austin even though he wasn't a fan of "pretty boy" types. Which is highly ironic considering Austin achieved mega-stardom as exactly the sort of kick-ass hellraiser Watts loved.
Hell, even that "WWE 50th Anniversary" book notes Crockett had the better in-ring product, it was poor business moves and lack of mainstream attention that kept him from truly competing with Vince.
Well go ahead and shit on Arn Anderson for beating Hulk Hogan by hitting him with a woman's shoe and winning the tv title.
Bingo. So many guys in WWE who should be fine mid-card (Miz, Del Rio, Swagger) but no, they get World title reigns because everyone has to have a shot at the big belt, never mind if they're right for it or not.
I agree those early SNMEs are tough to sit through, especailly from the perspective of someone like me, who was not a fan yet in the mid '80s. However, the late '80s shows are great, even for someone who didn't start watching until the early '90s.
Did Luger ever beat Flair by anything other than DQ or countout? Can't remember if Angle ever got Flair to tapout b/c if so, he and Sting would be the only guys to ever get Flair and Hogan to give up.
Clash: The very first one, was promoted big-time, the Luger/Windham vs Tully/Arn tag title match was sensational and of course, Flair and Sting having that big main event. SNME, probably the third one, November of '85, Hogan/Andre vs Bundy/Stuff but more notable for the whacky Halloween party antics.
It's more than Hogan gave most people and Arn's not in that match if not for his relationship with Flair. I'm not saying Arn wasn't worthy of his role but I don't see why Arn getting spots due to his relationship with Flair isn't looked at the same way every time a member of the Clique won anything ever.
Ox was not a terrific worker. He was a good heel, and always cut a crisp promo. His in-ring style was more of a brawler, with typical heel cheat tactics. I found a video on Youtube where he heart-punched a guy repeatedly, even after the guy was laying on the mat looking dead. This started a small riot with fans throwing chairs in the ring, preventing his escape..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsadSDbSPdg
Were there ever any complaints that someone else more deserving than Arn was frozen out of a spot just b/c Arn was friends with Flair? Did Arn or Flair ever dog it in the ring just b/c they weren't in there with each other or one of their friends? That's the stuff the Clique gets ragged on about.
Still love Bobby Eaton. The Eaton/Lane version of the MX is one of my top five teams ever.
And what great 1995 WWF talent was wasted because of the Clique? Bret Hart complains because it wasn't all about Bret Hart at the time and guys who's runs were ending or weren't that good to begin with complain about wrestlers always think it's the guys who succeeded's fault that they didn't.
You survived an 80 foot fall. the apron climb should be nothing compared to that.
Actually the Blonds were broken up because their Clash main event against Flair & Arn did a dismal TV rating, and the act was almost immediately (pending those pesky Disney tapings) killed off as punishment.
Explain how that was Hogan's fault.
I'm probably stepping into WHOOSH territory, but no, he talked about a human. And we never have been even close to Texas.
You think his punches are good?And he's supremely unlikable as a babyface, he's a smug dickbag.
Who the fuck is Mr. WCW?
just a joke trying to tie in wrestling bovine and how texans love to bump uglies with them.
Honestly Saturday Night's Main Event didn't really get good in terms of match quality and angle advancement until 1987. Before that it really was just a supplement to Superstars like how Smackdown is just a supplement to Raw today.
Tommy Rich is a bad example because he went in and out of JCP/WCW a lot and didn't really establish a lot of longevity like Tito. Actually Arn is more of the WCW Tito Santana equivalent only he never became just a JTTS that Santana became during the end of his WWF run.
Cannibalizing the main event scene until there was nothing left but a bunch of old guys nobody wanted to see anymore and a bunch of green guys no one has ever heard of.That was Hogan. There was no upward mobility in that company once he got there. Austin, Pillman, The Radicals, Jericho, and The Giant all left because of that and became much bigger stars. Hogan came in, got all his friends spots, picked the promotion dry, and peaced out before it closed. Did the same exact same thing to TNA too.
(Bill Ray is standing alone, holding his bat.)Bill Ray: Well, well. Archie Stackhouse has thrown down the gauntlet for BoD Hell In The Cell, and I...accept.Let me take you down memory lane, Archie. When I was a little boy, all I wanted was a friend. I tried to befriend my other peers, but they shunned me. And eventually....I tried to join in on one of their games, and they broke my arm. I lost my faith in humanity that day, but I lost something else, too: fear. I went home, and I got this out of my brother's room(holds up bat). And when my arm healed, I found the kids that had done it, and I sent them to the HOSPITAL. Don't you see, Archie? I admired you. I stood up for you, and I fought with you against Cooltrainer Bret, and now, you take people I care about, and you use them as pawns in your sick game. And at Hell In The Cell, your game is over. I will end your delusion, Archie. And, when it's all over, when all the blood has been shed, when only you and I remain, maybe you will learn what they did all those years ago - I. WILL NOT. BE BROKEN.(Camera cuts out)
I had the same exact thought when they came in, I was 5 in '89 and I thought they both looked as old or older than my dad.
And prehistoric contrarian anti-smark smarks would've been arguing that it was a good thing.
I liken Rich more because when I started watching here is this jobber touted as former world champ, much like Tito was this jobber touted as former IC, and tag champ (at that time both rare and prestigious).