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Bash at the Beach 1999

Bash at the Beach 1999
Date: July 11, 1999
Location: National Car Rental Center, Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Attendance: 13,624
Commentators: Bobby Heenan, Tony Schiavone

Reviewed by Tommy Hall

We're going in a new direction at this point in WCW as the promotion has gone from really boring to freaking insane in the course of a few weeks. A good chunk of this show was booked within the last few weeks and knowing the stories isn't likely going to help me get through it. Let's get to it.


I've actually seen this show far more often than I should as I found it at a Blockbuster for $2 when I was about thirteen. It took many years to suppress those memories but here we go again.

The opening video is a wordless montage about the four men in the main event. I mean, if there's one story that doesn't need a verbal explanation, it's one about Savage and Sid trying to kill Nash and then the heroic champion kidnapping and potentially raping Gorgeous George, causing Savage to throw her out of their dressing room with a side plot of Sting potentially driving the Hummer that nearly killed Nash and then Nash changing the rules of the tag match so that anyone, including his partner, can pin him for the title. Also for some reason they air the video then show it about five more times as a very fast speed.

Tony says the tag match tonight started as a tag match. It was once going to be Sting/Nash vs. Savage/Sid in a tag team match, but it's now Sting/Nash vs. Savage/Sid in a tag team match. No that's not a misprint.

After those words of wisdom, Schiavone explains the junkyard match and the boxing match before throwing it to Gene for a Hotline ad.

Mike Tenay is at the junkyard, which he knows about because his sources told him where to go. Apparently there's going to be a ring of cars with a bunch of obstacles to get around and the first person to jump over a fence and escape wins. This company is rapidly becoming more of a parody of wrestling than an actual wrestling promotion.

Video on the Cat vs. Disco Inferno. Cat had a kickboxing match with Jerry Flynn and lost via DQ so Flynn took him down in a brawl after the match. He and Disco had a dance off a week earlier, making the kickboxing stuff completely pointless.

Disco Inferno vs. The Cat

The original stipulation was the loser could never dance again but that has since been dropped. The lawyers must be working overtime as the match was announced three days ago and the stipulation was never mentioned on Thunder. Miller rants before the match and wants another dance contest before we get going. He demands that the people all vote for him or else he'll beat them all up. Tony explains that he'll lose because he threatened the fans because WCW thinks we're rather thick headed. Disco dances for about two seconds before Cat goes after him and we're ready to go.

Inferno starts like a kitchen of fire (not enough for a whole house) and sends Miller sliding out to the floor. Back in and Cat nails a few kicks, so Disco just tackles him to the mat and hammers away. Some atomic drops from Disco set up some miscommunication on what looked to be his swinging neckbreaker.

Cat comes back with a kick to the head and walks around as Sonny gets in a few shots of his own. Those are as effective as you would expect since Sonny, a legitimately accomplished karate fighter, is a manager and therefore incapable of hurting anyone. Back in and Disco grabs a quick sunset flip for two but gets his head kicked off again.

Another kick misses though and Disco legsweeps him down, setting up a middle rope elbow for two. Cat rakes the eyes and puts on the shoe, only to have Disco take it away and blast him in the face. Sonny's distraction makes it only a two count though, allowing Cat to put the shoe back on and kick Disco for about the fifth time for the pin.

Rating: D. This really was the best thing they could think of to start a show? It's really hard to care about a match with no build, no value and nothing beyond basic moves. The fact that it had Ernest Miller in there made things even less interesting. It's not even a horrible match or anything, but there's just no reason to care about something like that.

Judge Mills Lane won't put up with any garbage tonight and will chase Bagwell or Piper if need be.

We recap the TV Title match. The video starts with Van Hammer surviving against Disco Inferno because the referee was down and a handful of tights. Then Flair saved Hammer from getting put through a table by banning hardcore matches, allowing Hammer to hit Hugh Morrus with a table and drive him through it. Somehow that earned him a TV Title shot here.

TV Title: Rick Steiner vs. Van Hammer

Keep in mind that there really isn't a face in this match as there's no reason to like either guy. Steiner comes out first for no apparent reason. They trade hard shots to the face to start and Steiner is knocked out to the floor. Steiner goes into his new standard of just driving someone down to the mat and ripping at their face a lot. Back up and Rick hammers away before taking Hammer outside to send him into the barricade.

Rick hits a horrible looking DDT on the exposed concrete and covers on the floor to continue getting on my nerves. Back in and Hammer hits him low, only to have Rick punch him in the face to take over again. They head outside one more time with Hammer nailing him in the head with a chair before taking him back inside for the Alabama Slam for two. Steiner bites him between the legs, punts him in the same spot (referee just watches him) and hits the Steiner Bulldog to retain.

Rating: F. Rick Steiner has reached the point where he's an embarrassment. Between never selling anything from a chair shot to a low blow, there's just nothing Hammer (who isn't the guy you want carrying a bag of groceries, let alone a PPV title match) can do. What WCW saw in him other than name recognition I'll never know, but if someone thinks he's skilled in the ring, they have no business being in charge of a wrestling company.

We get an overhead view of the junkyard, which really just looks like a parking lot with a bunch of cars stacked up in a circle. The winner gets a trophy but Tenay can't answer who is going to be in the match because it's unsanctioned.

We recap David Flair being named US Champion, meaning we just see the segment again. Again, weren't the Flairs fighting months ago about David siding with Torrie and having his father hold him down? Now David has ten women around him (including Torrie) and his dad made him US Title. That's a big jump in the span of five months.

US Title: Dean Malenko vs. David Flair

David is defending of course and comes out with Torrie, in a very pushed up tied off top, shirt that might be nine inches long, and a black cowboy hat. Ric, Arn and Asya are here too but Johnny Boone is refereeing. Tony says David hasn't been impressive in all of his title defenses. You know, all one of them.

Dean of course throws him down with ease and stomps away in the corner before planting David with a suplex. Ric comes in but gets decked as Dean puts on the Cloverleaf. Anderson nails the referee with a spinebuster, allowing Robinson to take over as referee. Dean Cloverleafs Asya but Ric nails him with the US Title to give David the pin.

Rating: F. Dang it this was just long enough to grade. As I said in the Nitro review, I get the idea they're going for here, but wasn't there another scrub you could put in there instead of Malenko? I know Dean isn't going to be headlining a PPV anytime soon, but he's the kind of guy that should actually be the US Champion. This kind of story is good in the right circumstances, but WCW isn't in a place where they can turn yet another title into a joke and keep beating their midcard guys into the ground, even in a match that doesn't end anywhere near clean.

Long recap of the Rednecks vs. the No Limit Soldiers, complete with the full I Hate Rap video. Barry Windham is such a talented drummer that he just scares the drums into playing themselves because he certainly isn't hitting them. This includes a lot of shouting HOOTY HOO, which amazingly enough didn't get the rappers over. Master P. is long gone, apparently saying that there weren't enough of “his people” in the audience for the night the angle took off. That would be in P.'s hometown in New Orleans if you aren't big on guys who shout like owls.

No Limit Solders vs. West Texas Rednecks

Swoll, B.A., Rey Mysterio Jr., Konnan
Curt Hennig, Barry Windham, Kendall Windham, Bobby Duncum Jr.

Elimination tag, which I believe is the first explanation of the rules for this match. The best part of this: the camera comes back to the arena early, showing ring announcer David Penzer counting the fans down on when to cheer. Tony fails at covering for him by saying that he was saying hi to his five family members in the audience. The levels that this company falls to when trying to cover their mistakes is astounding. Heenan redeems things a bit by saying that the Soldiers' problem could be solved if they just put a light in their closets. Rey and Konnan make sure to shout a lot before we're ready to go.

Mysterio and Barry get things going with the Cruiserweight Champion getting hammered down in the corner. Rey comes back by sending Barry into the corner and getting two off a split legged moonsault. Off to Hennig vs. B.A. with Armstrong nailing a dropkick before trying to talk some trash. Thankfully that goes nowhere as it's off to Duncum before the big Swoll comes in with a bad looking clothesline. Swoll hammers on Duncum but Kendall comes in with a cheap shot to take over.

Kendall misses a charge into the post so Mysterio comes in without a tag. Naturally the referee is fine with this. Kendall tries to beat the rules into him but Rey nails him with a springboard seated senton to knock both Kendall and Duncum out to the floor. Back in and it's Konnan vs. Hennig before Rey hits another springboard seated senton on Hennig. Duncum and Hennig both get hammered in the corner until it's Swoll ducking Duncum's cross body for two in an awkward sequence. Rey adds a springboard legdrop and Swoll pins Bobby.

The other Soldiers, Chase and 4x4 (who makes Ezekiel Jackson look like David Flair) beat up Duncum in the aisle because they're heroes. Barry and Konnan hammer away on each other until Curt comes back in for a double clothesline. Off to BA as the Rednecks keep control with Curt nailing a quick HennigPlex to make it 3-3. Mysterio tried to dive in for a save but came in too fast and basically started crawling in slow motion for no logical reason.

So it's Konnan getting beaten down now with Kendall hitting a bad looking lariat and a slightly better looking slam. He misses a middle rope knee though and Konnan hits a rolling lariat of his own (called a DDT by Tony), followed by the facebuster for two. Rey dropkicks Kendall into a horrible “rollup” for the pin on Kendall. Barry DDTs Konnan for two as 4x4 and Chase beat up Kendall.

Everything breaks down with Barry going to the floor.....and being carried off by Chase with Konnan following. For some reason this isn't a DQ and both guys are counted out. So it's Hennig vs. Swoll/Mysterio. Swoll comes in for some incredibly sloppy offense as Barry comes back in. Curt tries to bail but 4x4 stops him in his tracks. Back in and Swoll hits his stupid palm strike to the chest before bringing in Rey for the Jimmy Snuka/Andre the Giant big splash off the shoulders for the pin.

Rating: C-. Swoll is horrible. Like he's really, really bad, to the point that he can barely throw punches correctly. I understand that he was really new at this, but as WCW should have learned over the years, that's why he shouldn't be on a major show like this. The Soldiers continue to act entirely like heels here, just like they have for most of this feud.

The announcers chat for a bit about the rest of the card.

We get Hak's challenge for the junkyard match.

Junkyard Invitational

Ciclope, Jerry Flynn, Johnny Grunge, Hak, Horace Hogan, Brian Knobs, Hugh Morrus, La Parka, Lord Steven Regal, Fit Finlay, Rocco Rock, Silver King, Squire David Taylor, and Mikey Whipwreck

They're in a junkyard, first person to climb over a fence wins. The place is huge so there's almost no way to see more than four or five people at once unless you go to a helicopter shots. Public Enemy (a surprise) flips a car over as I'm only going to be able to call big spots. There are barrels of fire everywhere. Jerry Flynn puts an electrical cord into an engine to make sparks fly out. Knobbs dives off one car for an elbow onto King on the roof of a van.

Finlay hits la Parka in the ribs with a bumper as Dave Taylor hits Morrus in the head with a trashcan lid. The annoyed look on Morrus' face as he just keeps walking is rather amusing. The camera shots are only lasting about ten seconds at most so it's hard to call much of anything. Jimmy Hart is running around in a yellow shirt and a hard hat. Rocco Rock is thrown into the window of a van. Morrus dives off a car with an elbow onto Rock because they're already repeating spots.

I think Ciclope dives off a car onto about six guys before they start throwing things at each other instead of doing anything coherent. Finlay goes Captain America by blocking a punch with a trashcan lid and hitting Horace in the face with it. Brian wraps Taylor in a tire as we're waiting on someone to try and win. Rocco and Horace make the first trip over with Horace making a last second save to keep Rock from escaping.

Silver King is bleeding from the arm as this just keeps going. Taylor has to dance out of a tire before Knobs and Hak put Finlay in a car. A forklift pops up and takes the car over to the crusher but Finlay gets out to prevent death. Of course the forklift hasn't been seen all match until this point. Then another car blows up and Finlay climbs over the fence to win.

Rating: N/A. This wasn't wrestling, and quite frankly I'm really not sure what it was. Why in the world WCW thought this was a good idea is beyond me and I'm sure the live audience is going to be THRILLED after having sat there for fifteen minutes waiting on this to end. On top of all that, Finlay would hurt his leg soon after this at a house show (in a hardcore match of course) and be out for months, making the whole thing worthless. I can't imagine he's the only one to get injured in this mess either.

We recap the Triad vs. Saturn/Benoit. They fought each other, then they fought each other some more, then they had some singles matches, now they're having a title match. For some reason we get a bunch of clips of the eight man tag from Nitro which doesn't seem to be going anywhere, other than a boxing match. They're trying to tie this into the old vs. new feud, which doesn't even seem to be a thing anymore.

Tag Team Titles: Chris Benoit/Perry Saturn vs. Jersey Triad

The Triad is defending. Kanyon starts on the floor as Saturn and Page slug it out in the middle. It's Saturn taking over with a bunch of right hands before knocking Bigelow and Kanyon off the apron for good measure. Off to Bigelow vs. Benoit as the announcers call Benoit an uncrowned champion. Hasn't he been a three time champion by this point? Bam Bam gets dropped into the middle buckle and sent out to the floor for a meeting with his partners.

Back in and Kanyon fights out of a suplex from Saturn and knees him down against the ropes. He grabs the referee to block a German attempt, only to have Benoit chop him into a t-bone. Back to Benoit for the decapitation clothesline followed by a Liontamer (which he used before Jericho). A double clothesline drops Kanyon for two more as the challengers stay in full control. Benoit stomps Kanyon down in the corner and starts in on his leg.

Saturn drops a top rope legdrop for two but Page comes in without a tag to take over, sending Saturn to the floor for a triple team to take over. Bigelow comes in for a big suplex and a falling headbutt for two. Back to Kanyon after Bigelow uses Flair's “how much time is left” trick. Kanyon drops a leg for one of the slowest two counts I can remember in a long time. The fans get distracted by something in the crowd so Bigelow puts Saturn in a chinlock.

Kanyon comes back in but gets crotched on the top, setting up a belly to belly superplex from Saturn. Benoit gets the hot tag and goes after Bigelow, only to have Page take him down with a top rope clothesline. Page is VERY pleased with this move, running out to the floor and celebrating like a mad man, even climbing onto the barricade. Back in and Page gets two off an elbow drop before it's off to Bigelow for some fat man offense.

Page comes in again and runs Benoit over for two with Saturn making the save. We get a front chancery from Page but Benoit drives him into the corner for the hot tag, which of course the referee doesn't see. That wicked sitout powerbomb from Page is good for two. Benoit finally suplexes Kanyon down but Bigelow breaks up a hot tag attempt. Bam Bam misses the moonsault though and we FINALLY get the hot tag to Saturn (which the camera doesn't catch).

Saturn cleans house with suplexes and clotheslines Page and Kanyon out to the floor. Everything breaks down again and Saturn hits a top rope splash, followed by the Swan Dive from Benoit but Page comes in off the top for the save. Saturn loads Page up with the Death Valley Driver but Kanyon throws powder in his face, only to have it get in Page's eyes too, causing him to Diamond Cut Kanyon. Bigelow makes the save but Benoit Germans Page for a VERY close two. Page throws in a metal trashcan as the referee gets bumped. He hits Kanyon by mistake but Bigelow comes in for a 3D on Saturn to retain the titles.

Rating: B+. Give that match a less messy finish and it's a classic. There was a lot of good stuff in here and the majority of it was due to how much time they were given. Everyone was allowed to get in there for awhile and the fans bought into the idea of two guys trying to fight against the big cheating team. They gave it a great effort and the whole thing just worked. Really good stuff here, though not enough to save this disaster of the show.

Clip of Judge Mills Lane agreeing to referee the boxing match. That's all of the recap because there was no reason for this to be a boxing match other than Piper barely being a wrestler anymore.

Roddy Piper vs. Buff Bagwell

Big time boxing referee Mills Lane is referee here to try to make people care. In case you've never seen him, just picture Mr. Strickland from Back to the Future. Piper has Flair in his corner. Buff's gloves are actually labeled “Buff's Left” and “Buff's Right”. Bagwell sees Flair in Piper's corner, so he has someone to have his back: HIS MOM, “Judge Judy” Bagwell. And I give up. Seriously it was bad enough when this was boxing instead of Piper just doing a freaking job for Bagwell like he should be doing, but now BUFF'S MOM IS HERE???

Flair gives Bagwell a chance to leave but Buff reminds him of the pin off the Blockbuster a few weeks back. You know, when Flair put Bagwell over in the middle of the ring in the whole point of this entire story. The rounds are two minutes long here. Piper sticks his chin out to start until Buff hammers him into the corner. The fans are dead at this point if you couldn't guess. Bagwell tees off on Piper (well, as much as he can BECAUSE HE ISN'T A BOXER) to end the first round.

Flair sprays something on Piper's gloves in between the rounds as this continues to fall apart. Piper hits a few jabs to the face and Bagwell's eyes are burning. He gets punched down in the corner as Judy brings over a sponge to try and clean Buff's eyes out. Back up and Piper wildly swings until Buff knocks Piper down in the corner in an identical sequence from Piper vs. Mr. T. thirteen years ago, because that's what this is supposed to be....a tribute to I suppose? Piper gets up as round two ends.

I'm going to pause for a second here and give you a bit of context to what is about to happen. Fifteen months ago, WCW was still in control of the Monday Night Wars and hadn't lost a night in the ratings in nearly two years. Their last win was about nine months before this. Yeah they were in trouble, but it's not like they were so desperate for something good to happen that they had to go insane. A few weeks back, Buff Bagwell hit his finishing move and pinned Ric Flair in the middle of the ring on Nitro, which should have been the start of a huge push for him. After all that, I give you the third round of this boxing match.

Piper jumps Bagwell in the corner and attacks Bagwell early, so his mother Judy gets in the ring and bites Piper's ear. She then dumps the spit bucket over Piper's head as Buff punches Flair off the apron. Buff goes up and hits the Blockbuster on Piper as Judy holds Flair on the apron, allowing Buff to pin Piper for the win. Judy chases the President of WCW around the ring after the match.

Rating: G. As in below an F and for GOOD FREAKING GRIEF THEY REALLY COULDN'T COME UP WITH ANYTHING BETTER THAN THIS??? Piper wasn't capable of doing a five minute match and doing a job for Bagwell? Does WCW really think that it's important enough to protect him from taking a fall in a wrestling match that they'll let him take a fall in a boxing match? Read that sentence back and see how insane it sounds. Now throw in Judy Bagwell and more hijinks than an episode of Looney Tunes and you see what happened to WCW in the summer of 1999.

We recap Nash/Sting vs. Savage/Sid. Savage being a woman beater and Nash potentially raping George is glossed over. On the other hand, the Fake Sting attacking Nash, causing Nash to go after Sting, even though the real Sting came out to beat up the Fake Sting, is left out with only the Fake Sting beating Nash down being shown. For some reason Nash wanted this to be a tag team match where anyone, including his partner, could pin him for the title. Again, this isn't mentioned in the video. We'll also ignore Nash saying he saw Sting driving the Hummer before we see that happening in the package.

WCW World Title: Sid Vicious/Randy Savage vs. Kevin Nash/Sting

Nash is defending in what is more like a handicap fatal fourway than a tag match if that makes sense. In theory Sting can only pin Nash for the title, meaning it's basically one on one on two. Thankfully Tony mentions the whole Sting can pin Nash and the real Sting coming out during the entrances. Yes, we've reached the point where Tony Schiavone is having to cover for the production team's goofs.

George (living up to the gorgeous moniker tonight) comes out in sunglasses but takes them off to reveal a black eye as she goes to stand in Nash's corner. The reason for the black eye isn't explained because that really wasn't something that should have happened, nor is it even referenced by the announcers. Savage and Sting start but Randy sees George changing corners and freaks out. Sting uses the chance to deck Savage and the fight is slowly on.

Off to Sid to face Sting as Tony explains the rules, making this match even more confusing that it was in the first place. Sting quickly knocks Sid out to the floor but Nash isn't interested in tagging. So in theory, if Nash doesn't get pinned, he doesn't lose the title? It's not like we've ever gotten a clear answer to that, though to be fair I doubt WCW thought it that far through. Sid and Savage start double teaming Sting with the big man putting on a bad looking camel clutch.

Savage comes in and spits at the champ, but thankfully doesn't hit his hair. Sting finally rolls away and makes the tag to Nash for all the usual offense. He has Savage in trouble but gives Sting a very hard tag to get out. Sting takes it outside and splashes the barricade before Savage takes him back inside for some choking. Tony points out that almost no one has tries to pin Nash yet, making the whole stipulation rather pointless.

Sid hooks one of the lamest chinlocks I've ever seen on Sting, who is nice enough to go down to the mat in a heap. Granted he might have fainted after hearing some of the nonsense they actually aired on this show. Sting fights up again and does the falling low blow spot, allowing for the hot tag off to Nash.

Everything breaks down and the girls come in, only to have Sting splash both of them plus Sid. Savage and Nash get splashed at the same time, allowing Sid to plant Sting with a chokeslam. George gets in and low blows Nash (SHOCK AND AWE, SHOCK AND AWE), setting up the big elbow from Savage for the pin and the title.

Rating: D-. I wonder if they bothered to tell everyone else in the match about the whole Sting can pin Nash rule, because it was NEVER attempted and was a complete non factor. George's face turn (can you even call it that?) lasted all of twelve minutes, meaning she's picking the woman beater over the kidnapper and potential rapist. I can't believe I just had to type that, so I'll wrap it up by saying it's a horrible match.

Overall Rating: F. The fact that a REALLY good twenty three minute Tag Team Title match is needed to bring this show up to a failure tells you all you need to know. This show had eight matches. One of them was a joke with David Flair needing an army to beat Malenko, one wasn't wrestling because it was a big fight in a junkyard, and one was a boxing match. Two of the others were matches that belonged on Thunder at best, another one was a boring elimination tag, and one MADE NO FREAKING SENSE.

This show blew my mind in ways that I honestly didn't think were possible. Just let some of this stuff sink in for a few minutes. Roddy Piper apparently can't be trusted in a five minute match, we can't have a DQ anymore because Rick Steiner wouldn't be able to have a match break 10 seconds if we did, and we have to drop stipulations that are made less than three days before the match. WCW is dying before our eyes and it's kind of amazing to see in a morbid way.


Remember to check out my website at kbwrestlingreviews.com and head over to my Amazon author page with wrestling books for under $4 at:

http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Hall/e/B00E6282W6

Comments

  1. Crikey Mate Down Under AussieNovember 29, 2014 at 11:58 AM

    Awesome review man

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  2. The Junkyard Invitational. With all the injuries the guys racked up, amazing none of them got a staph infection for the other company's doctors to ignore.

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  3. Much appreciated.

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  4. I was watching KOTR 1997 a little bit ago, and it creeps me out how many parents in 95-97 let their young sons go to Raw dressed as Shawn.

    A baby dressed up as a male stripper would be hilarious and adorable. An eight-year old? Creepy and awful.

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  5. Hopefully it's nothing like the outfits he wore in WWF and WCW early in his career.

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  6. As much as I hate to, I have to side with Vince on this one point. After the Rumble, there was no way in hell they weren't going to call an audible and put Bryan in the main event. You just can't have fans hijacking shows like that, and that would have caught serious momentum if they'd kept up with the Daniel Wyatt nonsense.

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  7. Adam "Colorado" CurryNovember 29, 2014 at 12:28 PM

    With money, I'd assume.

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  8. You'd have to watch the shows to remember the reaction to Pittsburgh was 1) Batista's still a face and 2) they were building toward Bryan vs. Kane until they finally threw up their hands post-EC. I understand the gimmick, but do you really have to come off so silly?

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  9. Extant1979 - Mr. Cable AccessNovember 29, 2014 at 12:29 PM

    How is this an "anti smark" perspective again?

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  10. Another Truther who forgets what they were actually booking post-Pittsburgh.

    ReplyDelete
  11. You are trying soooo hard right now. I don't even think you understood my original post. Re-read it.

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  12. Yes, I'm trying sooooo hard by pointing out what was actually booked and going on on the program.

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  13. If someone doesn't agree with the general opinion, then it's a trolling anti-smark gimmick, cause it's simply INCONCEIVABLE that someone might have a valid opinion that differs from theirs.

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  14. Extant1979 - Mr. Cable AccessNovember 29, 2014 at 12:32 PM

    Right, but I thought OUR perspective was the anti-smark.

    I'm so confused.

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  15. What are you arguing here exactly? Pittsburgh? Bryan vs Kane? What?

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  16. With how petty the wwe has been known to be, it'll be interesting to see what they have planned for AJ on monday. This story aint over yet!

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  17. He says they had rejiggered the booking immediately upon the reaction in Pittsburgh to put Bryan in the main event. Highlighting that the actual booking was leading to a midcard Bryan vs. Kane match disproves that. They didn't finally quit until after EC.

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  18. Yep, the year 2000, when 'Taker had been putting on mostly shitty matches for a decade.

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  19. Should've probably been titled "How the Anti-Smark Gimmick Posters Were Wrong (And Will Still Defend It Anyway)," but.

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  20. I honestly have no idea.

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  21. Ah right, well they could hardly work Bryan into the main event immediately the next night on Raw. But I'd say the reaction at the Rumble definitely had them reconsidering Batista/Orton. I doubt they put Bryan into the main purely to spite Punk

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  22. Punk didn't even say they did it to "spite him." His absence meant the card would've been a giant chant-a-thon bust if Bryan wasn't given the opportunity.

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  23. Exactly. I'm saying it would have happened, whether Punk quit or not. It had little to nothing to do with him. The "Yes movement" had already started.

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  24. So you think the main event would have been Batista/Orton if Punk had stuck around?

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  25. It's one thing to white-knight punk, but this is getting close to hero worship. If world hunger gets solved, I'm sure it will be because of CM Punk.

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  26. Taker/Lesnar, Batista/Orton, Punk/HHH, as anyone can clearly see. So long as they're not working a gimmick.

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  27. Again, I fail to see how Punk has ANYTHING to do with this.

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  28. You'll only see how Punk has anything to do with this if they admit to it on a DVD, and maybe not then.

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  29. I don't see Batista/Orton happening under any circumstances - it would have been shat on at Goldberg/Lesnar proportions and no Stone Cold there to save the day. Nothing to do with Punk

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  30. You give Vince too much credit, dude.

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  31. Well no, I don't because from my understanding he was the last one to realise it would have been an awful idea. But there was no denying the Rumble reaction and reactions after that. The old man came round in the end

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  32. Are you saying that AJ might be about done with the company?? 26th time's the charm??

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  33. Vince McMahon and "denying reactions" goes together like peanut butter and jelly.

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  34. I fully admit that Mcmahon read the situation horribly wrong. But he ended up admitting it and gave us what we all wanted for WM 30. I guess that's not enough, cause he totally should have known sooner, so he still sucks?

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  35. Not gonna argue with that but on this occasion I think he came round when he realised it threatened to turn his biggest event into a flop

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  36. I'm done arguing with him. I think he's just trying to impress the board by going after me or something. I dont' even know what he's arguing about. Vince misjudged the crowd, he fixed it, it had nothing to do with Punk. I'm moving on. :)

    ReplyDelete
  37. LOL, and Punk's the one with the ego. "Impress the board" by arguing with you. Wow.

    ReplyDelete
  38. That's what I was going to say. He would have been shoulder to shoulder with Warrior, but I think Warrior's maniacal charisma was a better fit for that position. His character was handled perfectly leading up to Wrestlemania VI, it was only in the aftermath that it fell apart. But Lex would have been a great opponent for Warrior after he won the belt. Luger could have been positioned as the Warrior's physical equal, but intellectual superior. Give him Heenan and make him the Brain's ultimate bid for the title.

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  39. After the fans spent a entire additional month rejecting the post-Rumble booking, sure, Vince seized on the opening provided by HHH suddenly being free to do something else.

    ReplyDelete
  40. ok, one last try. using capital letters.


    WHAT. DOES. THIS. HAVE. TO. DO. WITH. CM. PUNK???


    Why wouldn't Daniel be able to be added into the main event, even if Punk still wrestles HHH?? It made ZERO difference.

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  41. Again, one last try, the booking post-Rumble through EC is a BIG GIANT FLASHING ARROW to Bryan doing something entirely different at WM.

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  42. No way buddy. Just saying it will be interesting, is all. (See folks? Thats how you handle getting jordanized!)

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  43. So if HHH hadn't been freed up, Vince would have gone "oh well, guess we'll have to stick with Batista/Orton". Come on dude, think about it - there was NO CHANCE Orton/batista was happening post-Rumble. Having Punk watch Bryan win the big one might have been a 'bonus' in their eyes but it's definitely not the reason they booked it

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  44. Again, you give Vince too much credit and the Jan-Feb booking shows it.

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  45. As I explained before, I'm not. But you're definitely giving Punk too much credit by taking everything he says as gospel

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  46. That's why i don't see him going back to wrestling, he have a lot of other opportunity in front of him

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  47. Or I'm looking at what was going on on the Raws following the Rumble, but either/or.

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  48. Booking plans change all the time - we know this. They still had a long time till Mania to go after the Rumble - did you want them to re-book the whole provisional card on Raw the next night? One last time - nothing to do with Punk

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  49. A long time to go until the Rumble, which they spent an entire month of building toward Bryan/Kane. They COULD have stuck Bryan in the WM main event as a three way on the go home show to WM with Punk still there, but any kind of historical perspective says they weren't.

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  50. Well let's just agree to disagree. I can't remember a lot from back then but I do remember after the Rumble thinking there's NO WAY Bryan won't be in the main event at Mania, and there's no way Batista/Orton is happening either. It makes really little sense to suggest it was because of CM Punk. Come on. Anyway, peace out!

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  51. The people that listen to a Colt podcast is the exact audience that would listen to a CM Punk not shoot. Why was he not prepared for this? Suckas gots to know

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  52. Trust me, A LOT of us watched the Rumble and thought, "Oh, there's NO WAY they can stick with Orton/Batista now!" and then we got the next month of TV in response. It'd be interesting to look at the Raws/EC threads, actually, see how clearly the blog saw Bryan/Kane being built at the time and how it inspired eight billion Bryan threads. It makes all the sense in the world, again, just considering how they build feuds.

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  53. How does any of this have to do with "Daniel Wyatt"? He turned within two weeks and it's seem pretty evident that Bryan was used to get Bray ready for Cena as Cena/Wyatt was rumored for months.

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  54. Well now surely it's you giving Vince too much credit by suggesting his booking makes sense. How many times have we seen matches/feuds forgotten about/scrapped at the last minute? All the time. It doesn't take CM Punk leaving for it to happen

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  55. Or they would have asked about his agent.

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  56. Bryan was going to walk out of Mania as champ, Punk leaving or not. It may not have gone down exactly the same way (obviously no HHH match), but the crowd was going to force that decision no matter what.

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  57. whynotboth.jpg, seeing as how it was. And again, and I don't know how circular this conversation has begun, "the fans screamed YOU BETTER GIVE US WHAT WE WANT OR ELSE and got zero response the month following that event" is at least supported by what was going on at the time. "Booking changes sometimes" is nebulous at best, and I don't know when the main event of WrestleMania has had a new addition a month before the event before. As much as I recall, Shawn got added to the WM main event the week before No Way Out because they were afraid Hunter/Benoit wouldn't draw on its own, but that's it.

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  58. I think a ton more people listened to this than would normally listen to Colt. I'm definitely one of those people

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  59. I do recall how Cena/Wyatt was pissed on by certain members here as "MELTZER'S AN IDIOT!"

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  60. Booking plans change all the time, not sometimes. That's why my argument makes a ton of sense. Certainly more than "because of CM Punk" or "because CM Punk says it's because of CM Punk"

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  61. Booking plans for the main event of WM weeks away from the event do not change all the time. You have to ignore the booking at the time and Vince's history at being told what to do by the fans in order to arrive at your viewpoint, and that's a bridge too far when "the fans are revolting, WM is a super smark event besides, and now there's a clear path for the fans' choice to be put in the main event" is looking one right in the face.

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  62. I don't think I articulated my point too well. Let's try again. This is the kind of thing that people that are aware of Colt's podcast would listen to. X number of people listen to each one. X times X squared is the number of people that would listen to a Colt podcast featuring a CM Punk not shoot.

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  63. A bridge too far would've been Vince going with Orton/Batista (in terms of him never listening to fans, as you say). It's easy to ignore the booking at the time because as I say, things change and they they still had 2 months to go before Mania after the Rumble - they could slowly phase out the original plans instead of completely revamping them the following night. There was just no way Orton/Batista was happening and Vince conceeded that in the end, certainly not because of CM Punk.


    Like you said though we're going round in circles so agree to disagree! Peace (for real this time)!

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  64. Vince ignores us all the time, man, especially when it comes to such important shit as the WM main event! lol Agree to disagree, though, okay.

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  65. That is the answer to how NJPW pays, not how much they pay.

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  66. I don't know if making her life difficult would fly in today's corporate WWE since it'd be obvious why they're doing it, but it's gotta be tough for her to walk into work and face Vince or HHH after this.

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  67. I've gone back and fourth on all of this. From reading the recap first I thought he was being difficult at times for no real reason, but after listening to it a couple of times he doesn't come off that bad. He just sounds like a guy who put up with the shit most guys have to put up with only he doesn't have the need or the personality to take it. He really just seems like a guy who's done with wrestling so he'll shoot the shit about what working in WWE was actually like for him.

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  68. Couldn't agree more with Scott. He had such a benefit in working with the Horsemen in NWA and learning the ropes from them. Had he gone straight to WWF he would have wandered around with no tutelage probably and just been another late-80's early 90's cartoon character

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  69. Love how people still throw the 'wins and losses don't matter' argument out there. How did that loss to Cena at Mania not kill him?

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  70. It's funny, you can hear it in him that he REALLY wants to rip apart the wrestling business for what they put the guys through physically. But he holds back, not wanting to dishonour it's "noble" past (name dropping Harley Race).

    I wonder if years down the road he'll call out how stupid it is. Cause it's a sad reflection on the industry that even the most outspoken guy doesn't want to completely unload on it.

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  71. If the WWE would allow themselves to pull the trigger on somebody when they start to get over (see Cesaro and Swagger and keep your fingers crossed with Ziggler) without pissing their pants, they would be able to have guys ready to take over top slots and let talent take time off to recuperate and to keep things from getting stale. Instead, somebody has to have a life-threatening injury to be taken off TV for any period of time unless someone decides to go off and make a movie like Batista or WWE themselves takes someone off TV to make some shitty straight-to-DVD movie like Orton and Ambrose. Look no further than what's happened with the roster the second half of 2014 as far as injuries to know how desperately WWE needs fresh talent to rise up.

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  72. Weren't the rumors building to a Daniel Wyatt vs Sheamus match and then, after they decided to abort the Wyatt angle, Bryan vs Kane?

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  73. Cena can't make people look strong in defeat. Some guys can.

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  74. It killed his momentum DEAD and not even Jericho could salvage it. It was WAY too soon to feud with Cena anyway and there were about a dozen other places Wyatt could have gone before running into Cena. It also didn't help that the promos were getting more redundant and non-sensical but they were crazy over up until that point.

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  75. Watching right now, nothing frustrates me more than hearing how thin the roster is and how there are no main eventers, and then seeing how they treat entertaining guys who the audience reacts to. Cesaro and Dolph Ziggler are the most obvious examples, but there are guys like Dean Ambrose (who isn't treated badly, but could be so much more), Kofi Kingston, Christian, and hell, even Zack Ryder a couple years ago. For that matter, why is somebody like Justin Gabriel -- who seemed like he could be the breakout star of the Nexus group -- floundering around doing nothing? Is he going to be the face of the company? No, probably not....but there's no reason why he can't be much bigger than he currently is.

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  76. No knock on Gabriel but I like the idea of him and Kidd being the "veteran" presence on NXT to help guys get to the next level while still getting their own shots on the main roster shows. They're both capable of dynamite matches and I'm really looking forward to watching the rest of this week's NXT tonight with Kidd vs. Balor.

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  77. ah okay, I totally misunderstoof

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  78. She told them to fuck off with regards to total divas. There's always been a little bit off CM Punk in her.

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  79. yeah it was a bit refreshing considering it came from a guy who has apparently said less than kind things about Miz in the past

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  80. According to Meltzer, WWE creative has no plans for Ziggler. He just got plugged into the hole created by Reigns & Orton being gone. Yeah, I know, what does Meltzer know. But really, he's not being pushed, just utilized. There are no long range plans to actually elevate him.

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  81. Well Bret sure took the Sunny Days comment hard despite it making it on TV. Vince probably doesn't care but its possible some of that stuff could rub guys the wrong way. HHH sure did his best to undercut a lot of those Punk promos in 2011 after summerslam.

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  82. At what point did the Internets go all bass-ackwards? Nowadays certain circles are all about the hosses and hating the Punks and Bryans of the world.

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  83. 'Not even Jericho.'

    LOL

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  84. I guess the best to hope for at this point is that we Randy Orton vs Lesnar at wrestlemania. Maybe it will end up being a good match.

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  85. Vince Jordan is like a 9/11 Truther.

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  86. I always loved the "wins or losses don't matter" spiel.


    Ask Triple H if wins or losses don't matter, especially after WWE sends letters to gaming magazines prohibiting them from showing a video game RENDERING of Triple H being in a vulnerable position, or WWE editing video packages that don't show Triple H losing (Royal Rumble 2008 for example).

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  87. Good on Punk.


    The business needs him more than he needs the business, and if he's not feeling creatively fulfilled, then let him move on with his health and wealth intact.


    Again, here's a guy who actually got one over on professional wrestling.
    He's not broke, he's not busted to pieces, and he doesn't have to work shows at state fairs.
    And yeah, it's nice of him to peel back the curtain on the way out the door.


    Was anyone surprised by anything he said? Vince is out of touch, Trips still thinks he's a huge draw, the writers are assclowns, and the medical staff has no regard whatsoever for the performers.


    So many of us have to eat shit every day at our jobs. He didn't, and that alone makes me a fan.

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  88. Even Chyna was more popular than Triple H.


    Hell, I'd say Triple H was the LEAST popular member of DX.

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  89. It also vindicates a lot of us who have been SAYING that Hunter is a fragile-ego possessing, delusional, insecure jerkwad who wants to get HIMSELF over at ALL costs to the business. He's Greg fucking Gagne with muscles.

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  90. FINALLY got a chance to sit down and listen to the whole thing. I was on Punk's side before, but now I'm 100% on his side. What a clusterfuck of a company.

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  91. I've heard that Rumble 2008 package, but I don't recall seeing it online.



    Also, don't forget the history clips shows that push the Triple H-led DX as the most important faction in the history of the business and the DX "tank" invasion was the single most gamechanging segment during the Monday Night War.


    I'm only slightly exaggerating.

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  92. Relax, I know it was a TV segment. I'm just saying I'd like to think Triple H's skin is that thin.

    Though to be honest, there are plenty of examples of Triple H demonstrating that he can't take a joke.

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  93. I just wish guys like Punk, who don't drink the WWE kool-aid of how they should just be grateful for the job they have, could apply the same scrutiny to the "good 'ol days" when shit was actually WORSE than it was now. It takes serious cognitive dissonance to (rightly) call out WWE for treating it's workers like garbage, but glorify the "old school" mentality of a bunch of guys who are either dead or in terrible shape.

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  94. I still think defenses per days as champion would be a slightly better call.

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  95. Did she tell them to fuck off? I always figured they didn't want her on the show because she was dating Punk and he had no interest in being on the show, but I honestly don't know when she started dating Punk and when they wanted her to be on Total Divas.

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  96. Wouldn't an anti-smark be... a mark?

    I'm not great on terminology though. I should stop before Meekin appears to try and explain the difference between a botch and a shoot.

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  97. I truly enjoy your reviews. Seeing you break form a little bit and unleash on the boxing match is great stuff. I can't recall you going under an F before and it's on the same show as the infamous junkyard match.

    I never understood the point of Ernest Miller wrestling. He could cut a great promo and was fantastic as a heel who needed to get beaten up, but the guy couldn't work an actual match.

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  98. Then why put him over so strong at Survivor Series? It makes zero sense not to keep him in the main event mix while the fans are into it. This idiotic mentality that there are only limited spots to go around at the top of the card while guys are dropping left and right with injuries makes me ill.

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  99. "Wins and losses don't matter" spiel is bullshit part 2:


    Shawn Michaels insisting he go over British Bulldog for the European Title. Shawn Michaels "losing his smile". Actually, Shawn Michaels in most of 1997.


    His only pinfall lose in that entire year was to Triple H, and it was that joke match.

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  100. Well...I think he was "being considered" but was never in any sort of serious contention. Mostly given that the story needed a young Thor as opposed to a more grizzled older version.

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  101. I really don't think I said anything absurdly wrong today, and I will say it again, Punk was 100% right to be angry with the WWE doctors (that guy should be fired as a PR move), and he was 100% right to put his health over everything else. It's the other stuff that makes me dislike him.



    Or 9/11 was an inside job, and Punk orchestrated it all or something. Whatever.

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  102. I see some of the Daniel Bryan conversation below, and obviously Vince Jordan shit out a bunch of comments. The point is the contrarian point of view was that D Bry being in the main event of Mania was planned all along. CM Punk's comments clearly disproved that regardless of if he had anything to do with it or not. That was a nice revelation.

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  103. That is nowhere near what I said.



    I said that CM Punk quitting had zero to do with it. It was the crowd hijacking the show, and turning on Batista that changed it. Whether Punk quit or stayed to fight HHH at Mania, Bryan was getting "willed" into the main event by the fans no matter what.

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  104. On the subject on CM Punk, maybe someone can clarify for me. Punk kept stressing that he was fired and didn't quit and he seemed open to the possibility of coming back, like wanting to call HHH the moment he got back from his honeymoon but then he got fired on his wedding day and he decided to retire from the business.

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  105. the prob with a narcissist angle is that my natural reaction to one is apathy

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  106. I always laugh at guys at CM Punk who claim "I will never go back to WWE"..... THEY ALL GO BACK! No1 never stays retired.

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  107. That's what you said today, that's not what you said and argued in the past.

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  108. Either way, you can't deny CM Punk's departure added fuel to those rabid crowds.

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  109. "There's always been a little bit off CM Punk in her."


    ...that's just to easy. Hopefully someone else will make he obvious joke here...

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  110. He played a chicken shit heel who ran away from fights unless it was a 3 on one beat down and needed help to save his title against Owen Hart and Vader. I sit get this myth that Shawn was putting himself over everyone all the time like 2002-2005 Triple H.

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  111. CruelConnectionNumber2November 29, 2014 at 4:16 PM

    Greetings from Diamond Cutter

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  112. That's because if Vince wants you back he'll do anything to make it happen. It's unclear what the future will be with HHH gaining more and more power and how he'll react and what he'll be willing to do when business is in a slump.

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  113. Yeah, that Vader match was weird because Vader's credibility was shot at that time and no-one would have cared if Shawn beat the guy clean like a jobber. Also Shawn had a match with Brooklyn Brawler at a MSG houseshow and Shawn needed all his DX buddies help to beat Steve fucking Lombardi.

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  114. I don't do it as often on here as apparently I'm breaking some sort of reviewer's code and not doing it properly or something like that.


    I don't get Miller either, but by this point he's far better than what he was.

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  115. I loved the recent "WCW OMG" set talking the Junkyard Invitational with "who the hell thought this up" less heat than "who the hell LIT this up?" and just discussing what a totally stupid idea it was and how you nearly had guys literally crushed to death on live TV.

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  116. I don't know much about boxing (Which would put me on par with whoever booked that match. Hey-oh!), but I know Mills Lane from Celebrity Deathmatch.

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  117. Absolutely miserable show. Needs to seriously be considered in getting a spot up there with GAB 91

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  118. This would've been an incredible angle. Conversely, if Luger comes in as a face, then you book him against Rick Rude in a battle of physiques. A program with Rude helps Luger improve as a worker, and the Vince commentary on Rude/Luger matches would've been HILARIOUSLY full of unintentional innuendo.

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