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Higher power

I was watching the higher power raw and obviously it made no sense.  Was there anybody besides Vince that was in the running to be the higher power? Who would have been the best selection?

Vince was in fact the only choice, which is kind of hilarious when you think about how the angle progressed from start to finish.  Personally I would have gone with either Jake Roberts or Ultimate Warrior, depending on who they could have convinced to take one last big payday as the big reveal.  Really though, there was very little available talent out there who could step into the role and then have a meaningful feud with Steve Austin, so Vince was as good as anyone, I guess.  

Comments

  1. Yeah, hahaha.... show us your tits.

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  2. "Hm, déjà vu"
    "What did you say?"
    "Nothing, just had a little déjà vu"
    "What did you see?" "What happened?"
    "A Seth Rollins music post was put up, then another just like it."
    "How much like it, was it the same one?"
    "Might have been, I'm not sure--"
    "Switch! Apoc!"
    "What is it?"
    "A déjà vu is usually a glitch in the Matrix. It happens when they change something"

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  3. It was me austin, it was me all along!!

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  4. One newer WWE main roster theme I like is Titus O'Neill's. Fits the character very well. If the lyrics weren't so repetitive and it was an actual song, it could get play in the car.

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  5. Brazilian Kid sucks dick!

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  6. Dawson: "Joey, who is that in bed with you?!"

    *covers thrown off to reveal Joshua Jackson*

    Packet: "IT'S ME, DAWSON! IT'S ME DAWSON! IT WAS ME ALLLLLLL ALONG DAWSON!"

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  7. I remember thinking the whole time during the run-up that it had to be Vince. As Scott said, there was no other choice at the time. I never understood all the hate for the angle back then. The only thing they could have done differently would have been to cancel it altogether.

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  8. Blecch. I'd have gone with the Honky Tonk Man before Vince.


    "It was the Honky Tonk Man all along, Austin! You can't sing, dance OR play the gi-tar like the Honky Tonk Man!"

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  9. You only like it because you're both black. You're a racist and you dislike white people. Go on, say it.

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  10. I remember being so pissed that it was Vince, even though you knew that was who it was going to be. I held out hope they were going to shock us.

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  11. At the time, some of my friends in high school thought it was going to be Ric Flair.

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  12. Magoonie NOT Teddy BelmontDecember 26, 2014 at 4:29 PM

    IT WAS ME BARRY!

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  13. Is there a bigger instance of a company booking itself into a corner like that? Oh, Russo...

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  14. At school, everyone was guessing who it was going to be. Some people were guessing Ted Dibiase, which would have been different, at least. Anyway, I always figured it was ending in Vince being the big reveal, because why not?

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  15. Russo could have been a choice too as he could reveal himself as the mastermind behind the Attitude era and stuff.

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  16. Dr Facts HallenbeckDecember 26, 2014 at 4:33 PM

    I remember at 13 thinking it was going to be Owen Hart.

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  17. Does anyone remember Nitro giving that away before RAW started that night?

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  18. Yeah, no way Vince McMahon would have okayed that one.

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  19. If Owen hadn't died, Bret Hart was the most logical storyline choice. A guy who was wronged in his last stint in the company, who has come back for revenge on the company AND Vince by going after the resident champion (Austin) and Vince's family.

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  20. Virgil's Gimmick TableDecember 26, 2014 at 4:37 PM

    I've always wished it had been Raven.

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  21. Remarkably, Bischoff only made a lucky guess.

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  22. It was so dumb considering Austin/Vince had already reached its logical conclusion, with The Corporation stuff failing at WrestleMania XV, Vince waving the white flag, and turning face.

    And then when Vince got "banished" at Fully Loaded and returned in September, they carried on and resumed that aspect as if the Higher Power business never happened.

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  23. I thought Scott once said it was Foley but he turned it down

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  24. Originally they were going to make him the higher power, but the nose kept poking out from under the hood

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  25. Virgil's Gimmick TableDecember 26, 2014 at 4:38 PM

    Aww son of a bitch.

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  26. Vince and corporation dudes vs. babyface has been the WWE's version of the NWO angle in WCW. We've gotten the same shit for decades because they are unwilling to let it go and do something else.

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  27. The way JR said that kind of conveyed some disappointment, so it always gives me a laugh.

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  28. It was weird that they went right back to it, considering the Vince & Austin vs. Ministry stuff was doing monster ratings. Just plug Shane in the Corporate role as the power-drunk, entitled Gen X'er archetype that was popular at the time, and bam.

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  29. I think Foley mentioned it too. He didn't think he could keep up with Austin in the ring and/or wanted to save the heel turn to put over Rock, if I remember it right.

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  30. Warrior? I....I just don't see he and Austin's styles meshing well at ALL. Let alone Warrior playing a corporate villain. Jake is a better answer, and he and Austin DID have history together prior to this.

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  31. I remember being so impressed by their storytelling ability in early 99, that they'd actually managed (to my teenage mind at least) to do the impossible and turn Vince face and have him grateful to Austin for his help. I thought it was perfect. And they ruined it all. A bad, bad time.

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  32. I could be wrong, but later on, didn't Austin only want to do more Austin vs Authority figure angles? I think I read that somewhere. If true, maybe that was the case here, too.

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  33. What was Raven up to at the time? He wouldn't have been a bad choice.

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  34. Stranger in the AlpsDecember 26, 2014 at 4:47 PM

    *Magic Johnson comes home to his house spray painted with racial slurs*


    Magic: He would do such a thing?


    Donald Sterling hangs out of his limo while speeding off: IT WAS ME JOHNSON! IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!!!

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  35. "It's me, Austin!"

    "Hell Vince I know it's you. Everyone does. This is the sorriest damn storyline I've ever seen under the umbrella of Sports Entertainment. When I stomp a mudhole in some sorry sumbitch inside a twenty-by-twenty ring, that's Pro Wrestling. But this higher power BS goes under the umbrella of Sports Entertainment. It is what it is"

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  36. I don't know if he would only do them but I think he suggested feuding with Flair as the authority figure.

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  37. Owen couldn't be the higher power, he didn't do well with heights.

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  38. Okay, I could be wrong. For some reason, I seem to remember Austin only wanting to feud with evil bosses, Rock. or Undertaker.

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  39. The one time they DON'T have Dibiase hanging around...

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  40. A Weekend at Bernie's style angle would have been incredibly bad taste.

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  41. Many people who ragged on WCW for doing the Dungeon of Doom, ate the Ministry up with a spoon. I'm not sure how different in quality the groups and storylines are, looking back.

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  42. Five world champs in the ministry!

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  43. "Where to, Stephanie?!" is a much better line than "Argh! It's NOT hot!". It's all in the dialogue.

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  44. The Dungeon, for what it's worth, introduced the Giant to wrestling. The Ministry storyline, introduced Stephanie McMahon. You be the judge there.

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  45. At the time I thought it was Rob Van Dam.

    "Higher" power.

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  46. Didn't Meltzer report back in the day that it was supposed to be Jake Roberts in the role as a call-back to his original partnership with Taker and as revenge for the promo Austin cut on him at King of the Ring - until they contacted Jake and realized that he was in no condition to take on the role.

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  47. Ugh. I did have to think for a bit, but okay.

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  48. I disliked the Dungeon because I liked Kevin Sullivan.

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  49. The Dungeon also brought Giant Haystacks to our shores *shudder*

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  50. As I recall, more than a few thought it would be Owen.

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  51. This. Raven would have been perfect.

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  52. The Higher Power episode is a Attitude Era highlight, literally every segment is advancing storylines, even if it was Russo-riffic.

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  53. Would IRS have worked? Genuinely curious.

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  54. Miles different. Undertaker had been on a string of great matches with multiple foes. The entire Dungeon was garbage. Sullivan, the Great White Shark, Zodiac, the Yeti, monster truck drivin' Giant... just awful. But the Higher Power reveal crash and burned, believe me.

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  55. Still in.wcw. and vince hated raven

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  56. It was a live raw

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  57. Mideon, Viscera, Boss Man, the Posse, etc weren't doing much better. A big difference is Undertaker actually won some matches, and the title, where the Dungeon mainly got wiped out by Hogan.

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  58. You're right. And they moved on to the next progression minutes later with Linda aND Steph. I didn't hate it

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  59. Well Undertaker wasn't IRS's mystery Survivor Series partner.

    But if he had been the hypothetical Bray-Taker feud would have gotten a few cool new layers.

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  60. I recall several names being bounced around amongst high school friends at the time: Shawn Michaels, Ted Dibiase, Jake Roberts, Ric Flair, Shane, Mick Foley. But I don't think anyone had much doubt that it would be anyone other than Vince.

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  61. Couldn't work "gimmick" in anywhere?

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  62. That sounds very WWE to move forward with a story before checking with the star to see if he can perform the role.

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  63. Warrior as a Satanic villain would have been all kinds of awesome.

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  64. You can say what you want about Russo's booking and how he cares so less about the in-ring product, but one thing you cannot take away from him - at least in the Attitude Era - was his booking always made you want to see what was going to happen next. The show had a serial, on-going vibe to it. Even though WWE has better matches now, I'd take Russo's booking back then over its stagnant, barely anything happens, paint-by-numbers booking.

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  65. I'll be honest, I completely forgot about the whole angle about 10 minutes after that episode of Raw ended, and it stayed out of my mind until I was reading about it years later after becoming a "smart" fan. Crash TV!

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  66. They never went anywhere logical but they went somewhere.

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  67. naah Ministry was awful. mid 1999 was a dark time for me as a fan, since WCW was virtually unwatchable and I was not much of a fan of Ministry or the push the envelope stuff Russo was doing with Mark Henry, Val Venis, Godfather, etc. It was only guys like Foley and Rock that made WWF worth watching.

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  68. Compare it to today's product, even the stupid stuff was attempting to make a point. Everything now just treads water.

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  69. The biggest credit to Russo is that he gave midcarders distinct gimmicks to stand out. Even if it was a shit gimmick, at least it was some attempt to get the people to latch on, now most everyone today looks the same and all come out to Downstait

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  70. It's been awhile. Can anyone remember some of the actions that occurred during this period that made it illogical for it to be Vince. I remember at the time there was a list of stuff that made it seem stupid.


    And then right after it was all forgotten, with Stephanie back in the loving arms of Daddy for her wedding to Test/HHH

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  71. Completely agree, pointless progression is better than no progression.

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  72. The Higher Power angle really revealed how limited Russo and the WWE main event roster were at the time. Austin had already spent the entirety of 1998 feuding with McMahon, and had spent the August-December 1998 feuding with The Undertaker.

    Let alone the fact that literally every rumored name for The Higher Power made more sense than Vince McMahon.

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  73. Crucifying his daughter comes to mind.

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  74. Russo at his best was a classic Southern wrestling booker. Strong heels and an everyman babyface = print money. The heels kept kicking the shit out of Austin and Austin kept coming until he won.

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  75. I knew one of you cats would say that. Swig of beer for the commenting man.

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  76. That, and he also came up with some creative, never done before segments and angles.

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  77. I listen to Russo's Raw reviews every week, and there's one constant he always complains about where I think most of us would agree.
    Most of these segments and matches don't matter. Cold, meaningless
    filler.

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  78. well that kinda fits Vince's character though. He would sacrifice anyone or anything to get Austin. It doesn't fit in the aftermath, as I mentioned, because suddenly he and steph were nicey nice again for the Test/Stephanie storyline.

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  79. The YETI was never in The Ministry. No one was ever frozen in ice in The Ministry. The Shark, Kevin Sullivan, COME ON MAN! You really can't compare the two. It's ridiculous to try. Of course everyone hated The Dungeon of Doom. They were awful!

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  80. Not too long ago, Alvarez made a dumb analogy, although his point was spot-on. He basically asked is the money they make from the 3rd hour worth what they're doing to their product.

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  81. honestly 1999 is an odd year. On one hand it had the highest ratings for Raw and I believe the highest combined monday night ratings for both shows in the first 3 months or so of 99. Either way though, both shows kinda sucked. I was tired of Austin big time. WCW was of course awful. Rock/foley had some spark to it early in 99. And again rock and sock connection and the al snow stuff was good in fall of 99. But ultimately it was the McMahon/Helmsley era that sparked Raw for me again to be great.

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  82. It's funny, we all remember it as "Higher Power", but they actually called it the "Greater Power" at the time. I went back and grabbed my reaction to the reveal from the Monday Night Recap (long, so skip if not interested in actual reaction from the time):
    ---
    I guess my own reaction to Vince being the Greater Power is about 50/50: I half liked it, and half hated it. I'll admit that the only reason I liked it at all is because the WWF did what I said they should about six months ago: have Linda McMahon come in and rain on Vince's parade. The bit with her and Stephanie established that not all that we saw in the last three months was a sham. It turns out Stephanie really was kidnapped by the Undertaker, it's just that Vince was the one who orchestrated it. His outrage at the Ministry, his verbal and physical clashes with Shane and the Undertaker, his trying to run over Midian with his car--those were all part of his master plan to make Austin's life a living hell.

    And there lies the major shortcoming of the storyline, which is mirrored by my half-and-half reaction to it. The plan only half worked. It succeeded in getting the WWF Championship away from Austin. But it failed in that Austin was never really taken in by it. Austin never accepted Vince's change in heart. He never was thankful for the gestures McMahon made to him, including his match against the Undertaker last week to get him another shot at the title. Austin simply never bought into the "kinder, gentler" Vince McMahon.

    The fans did, though. We all got suckered by McMahon. McMahon taunting the fans really brought that point home. That's where the storyline succeeded best. It's also what will make a lot of people hate this development. People like to be fooled, but they generally hate to be made fools of. The WWF wisely tempered the blow of McMahon turning heel again by making Austin CEO of the WWF in the manner they did. McMahon made us all hate him again, and rather hold that hate against the WWF, they set up a way for us to channel that anger: backing Steve Austin in making life for Vince a living hell. Had the WWF ended the show with Vince triumphant as the Greater Power, the fans would have gone home pissed. As it is the crowd quickly and easily slipped back into that position they were in three months ago of hating McMahon, and rooting for Austin to kick his ass.

    I think they executed all of this quite well. I'm just not convinced that this direction is better than where we were two weeks ago before this "Greater Power" thing flared up. I liked McMahon as the good guy, and Shane as the evil son trying to take over the WWF. The Austin/McMahon storyline had gotten old by the time Austin captured the WWF Championship at WrestleMania. This storyline did kill three months, but now we're right back to that same old spot we were three months ago. Austin vs. McMahon will be hot again for a month or so, but after that ... ? I just don't see where they can go with this after the matches at King of the Ring.
    ---

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  83. it's worth it to the shareholders. It would be a tough argument to tell shareholders that the third hour, while giving WWE tons of revenue was so damaging to the product that it was costing them more in revenue that they were making with the 3rd hour. The response to that argument? Make the 3rd hour better.

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  84. This is a pretty solid summary: http://taimapedia.org/index.php?title=The_Higher_Power_Angle

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  85. Wasn't the huge logic flaw in the storyline was McMahon heloing Austin win the WWF title just to eventually screw him out of it?

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  86. And two months later, Vince was face again and Austin helped HIM win the world title. What a fucking mess.

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  87. It's not the 3rd hour specifically, it's that there is 3 hours. And it's not shareholders they'd gave to convince, it's USA. They want that extra 3+ rated hour every week. What do they care the strain it's putting on the overall product? If WWE could make the case, and stand up and insist on going back to 2 hours in the next contract, well THEN they'd have to explain to shareholders why they sought a lesser deal. I think they'd have enough numbers on their side to make that case.

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  88. McMahon winning the title should have never happened. He should have been off TV until the wedding.

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  89. Three hours would be fine if it wasn't followed by an hour of Superstars and Main event, and two hours of Smackdown. Overkill.

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  90. Do they need a 3rd hour? Do they need Smackdown at all anymore? I'm guessing they do because if they put that type of content on the Network, it would probably be doing a lot better.

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  91. Russo was out of control by the time Wrestlemania XV came around, in hindsight, 1999 was one of the worst years for the Attitude era. 1998 was a lot of fun, and early part of 1999 was pretty good, but looking back on some of these old RAW's and PPV's, makes me think the stuff he was coming up with wasn't filtered enough through Vinny Mac.


    I wouldn't so much call the higher power/greater power angle terrible so much as it was, "Well, back to status quo, business as usual, Vince hates Austin again". The stuff they did with 'Taker I thought was excellent at this time, and it was completely squandered with the Corporate Ministry merger, and this angle. That being said, 'Taker and Austin's feud was one of the few things that still was fun in hindsight.

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  92. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:06 PM

    I've been saying this for forever, but if they insist on having 3 hours they should make hour 1 either NXT or some kind of recap/pregame deal. And I would run it from 7 to 10 rather than 8 to 11, so the kids don't have to be in bed for the last hour.

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  93. Would cutting back to two hours really increase network buys or increase the other two hours ratings enough though? I hate that Raw is 3 hours, but I'm not sure if business would improve enough that they'd be able to properly sell the idea. How would it be marketed? "Raw is BIGGER and BETTER" is an easy thing to say, how would they tell the fans that Raw was cutting back without them admitting to a mistake, which they're very unlikely to do.

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  94. Yeah, 1999 was a hideous year disguised in a really hot period of business.

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  95. Yeah, Austin vs. Taker at SummerSlam '98 was pretty decisive. Continuing that feud for another 9+ months was really pushing it

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  96. Here's something I remember hearing at the time. I have no idea if it was credible or even something anyone was thinking of, but I just remember hearing it. I heard that it was supposed to be The Jackyl before he left for ECW. Was there any truth to that?

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  97. It's true. Anyone who was actually watching at the time would have to admit that a lot of the Attitude Era was shit. Business was hot and there were some truly great acts, but as a whole I don't feel like the in-ring product was better than it is now. Nor were the storylines much more sensible

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  98. The McMahon/Helmsley era 2000 was great. But *motherfucker* did it fucking suck in 2013/2014.

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  99. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:12 PM

    I personally hated the Attitude Era. Like, I don't even remember this angle because I quit watching the WWF.

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  100. The whole point of SmackDown was that it was on network TV. The minute it left the CW it should have been axed. SmackDown has never fit on SyFy. And I doubt the SyFy network thinks "thank god we have wrestling to prop up our ratings." My gut feeling is that before too long they're going to move SmackDown to USA, and if they do that I hope they can convince USA to let them cut RAW back to 2 hours and present the shows as equals. Then Main Event and Superstars could basically be recap clip shows for the WWE Network, with a couple dark matches thrown on there to liven them up. (Is Supertars still syndicated/distributed internationally?)

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  101. That is true for sure. Even guys who were never really meant to go higher than mid-card had distinct characters. The Godfather, Al Snow, Val Venis, Hardcore Holly, Crash, the APA, Edge/Christian, Headbangers, and a shitload more. Not that Russo made those characters or that all of them were great, but at least there was variety and identity.

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  102. I think it stills air on Sky here. Not that I uh, ever watch it. I can't see this third hour getting the boot until WWE leaves USA. And that deal has TIME left to run, I think.

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  103. 1999 was one of the worst years for the business, period. It's easy to forget just how horrible so much of the in-ring stuff was, and how offensively bad the product was overall, given how hot the upper tier performers were and how into everything the crowd was. In fact, I'd argue that it was probably the worst year for work rate ever in PPV terms. There's not a single PPV that's above average, really (bar maybe No Mercy) - and so many that were completely horrible.

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  104. Oh man, there were tons ofrumors flying at the time, I remember vaguely hearing the Don Callis one, also, Shawn Michaels was a very heavy one going around.

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  105. Alvarez is the master of the dumb analogy, by his own admission.

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  106. I think I heard Sid's name bandied around before he showed up at the Bash a couple of weeks before.

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  107. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:16 PM

    I believe they signed at 2 year contract, so they have 18 months or so to go. Might have been 3 years though.

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  108. 1997 stands up as perhaps the best year from the Attitude epoch. Beyond that, 2000 was great but 99, 98 and 01 were sucky.

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  109. Yeah I remember Shawn too because it seemed like all the crappy sheets like wrestlezone didn't believe he was really gone (or were still using his name for clickbait and I went in hook line and sinker) but the Jackyl one was so out of left field I still remember it 15 years later.

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  110. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:18 PM

    And WCW and ECW were ass too, and IIRC even Japan was shit. Yeah, easily the worst year, though 2014 is right up there.

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  111. Bischoff still spoiled it: http://www.ddtdigest.com/updates/1999061m.htm

    "Bischoff says that the "guy under the hood" on the competition is Vince McMahon. That wasn't nice. Maybe you should worry about your OWN promotion before you worry about the WWF."

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  112. That's one facet of the AE obviously sorely lacking from today's product. Even midcard talent were treated like they mattered, and could be as over as main eventers. Rikishi and Too Cool got some of the loudest pops on every show they performed on.

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  113. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:19 PM

    The Shawn one was the one I most remember, though back then he was rumored to be the mystery guy for every angle.

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  114. PWG, NJPW, DG are having a great year, so it's not the worse.

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  115. Unpopular opinion time: i think Vince made perfect sense as the Greater Power (Higher Power is an AA thing). He plots this whole thing wiith the newly Satanic Undertaker to get the belt off Austin and get his guard down. See, to thst point Austin had been the anti-hero, with all his DTA stuff and giving the Stunner to everyone. He'd never really done anything heroic, or really anything for anyone but himself. So Vince takes someone who to that point had seemed completely vulnerable and totally off limits, and puts her in the position where he fears for her life or her purity (heavy insinuation that Taker was raping her, remember, with all that "dark ceremony" jazz). So Austin feels torn about helping his sworn enemy but is finally played into letting his guard down, being the white knight, and putting himself in harm's way. And when he"s vulnerable, he gets abducted and tied to the "symbol". And that's when Vince reveals himself like a mad supervillain. He got the Byronic hero to deny his nature in the name of the greater good and thsn exploited his weakness. Frankly if anything they erred in not having Austin stay abducted and have a one-sided beatdown by the whole Ministtry at the PPV. unfortunately that particular ppv was Over The Edge, so the effect was dampened.

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  116. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:23 PM

    "Worst". But yeah, good point. I totally ignore TNA, but everything I heard says they were decent this year.

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  117. That's the case they'd have to make. Theoretically they'd lose a third of their USA deal--plus an hour worth of sponsor plugs. Would a potential improvement in overall product quality make up for that? I think they can make the case... BUT I fear the numbers won't be there right off. Depends on which hour got cut. If they cut the current 1st hour, they'd take a big hit because of the current viewing patterns. Cut the 3rd and you'd have an instant improvement. The more important factor is actual money. Can they improve the product, thus turning around attendance trends? Will the PPVs being 3 hours be seen as an enticement and a subscriber boost. The hour cut would be a quick money loss; the turnaround (if any) could take months.

    Of course what happens if they let this go another year and ratings have slumped another full point and attendance continues to drop...?

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  118. Your hero CIMA kinda had a revival this year.

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  119. Two... I think.

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  120. Backing down to two hours; that's what WCW ended up doing, I don't remember how they sold it though.

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  121. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:26 PM

    Ohtani is my hero, but CIMA is fucking awesome too. Why WWE never gave him a look is beyond me.

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  122. Could be win/win if they could move SmackDown to USA, cut RAW to 2 hours, present the shows as equals. USA would be getting 4 hours instead of 3, while WWE would be cutting back from 5 to 4.

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  123. WCW took a shit and died that year, it's true. Although, they did bequeath us Spring Stampede 1999, which is a fucking phenomenal PPV and beats anything the Fed put out very, very easily.

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  124. The whole storyline was kinda lame really. Unless you could've brought in Sting or someone else major outside of WWF it made no sense. Glad they just ended it with Vince and didn't have it drag out.

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  125. I'm really curious as to what happens to the ratings in January, because this does seem like it'll be the first year in several that there won't be a glut of old stars coming back. Factor in a post Mania drop off and you could be looking at scary low 2 numbers.

    Maybe they could make PPV's seem more special by making them all FOUR hours? It's a content expansion race to infinity!

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  126. He's a midget.

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  127. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:27 PM

    No Friday night thread? I can post one if no one else is here.

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  128. sure this has been said a million times and i wanna add to the choir but the whole higher power/crucify anyone angle is/was absurd...

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  129. Absolutely. Instead of everyone having a generic name and underwear model look, they need to let these guys develop characters. A fun mid-card is essential, especially if Raw is going to stay a 3-hour show for the foreseeable future. I have absolutely no problem with characters like Brodus Clay, Zack Ryder, Three Man Band, Fandango, Adam Rose, et al getting a chance. You never know when something might blow up big, like the guys you mentioned.

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  130. Let's talk.

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  131. It was there a minute ago. Is it gone now?

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  132. They pretty much just did it, no explanation. But it killed their profits, because they had months of advertising already sold that they had to make good on.

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  133. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:29 PM

    He's better off anyway, Japanese guys never do well in WWE. I'll be shocked if KENTA ever makes it to the main roster.

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  134. To be fair, Michaels spent a lot of time touting his 'imminent' return to sheets from the moment he left until his actual return.

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  135. Yeah, agreed. 2000 is easily my favorite year for in-ring product, while nothing really beats '97 for story-telling. 1998-1999 benefitted from being in the heart of the hot period, but there was a lot of garbage on the show being covered up by Austin-McMahon and a few others

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  136. Meekin just showed up so maybe Scott deleted it.

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  137. If HHH helps him, sure.

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  138. It's too bad too, because HHH/Steph can still be really effective as characters. It just depends on which version you are getting week to week

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  139. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:30 PM

    Oh, someone put it up then. Never mind.

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  140. His points are usually sound; the jungle trek he will sometimes take to get to them though...

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  141. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:31 PM

    What's on your mind, homeboy?

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  142. 99 had the benefit of Austin and The Rock in their prime. Not to mention signing Big Show and Jericho and the greatest wrestler to debut without a pro wrestling background in Kurt Angle. Really hard to fuck that up.

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  143. As the world's foremost (and possibly only) Jackyl mark, I would have loved this. But everyone else would be let down. There were many new fans in 1999 that weren't around when the Jackyl first spewed his propaganda in late '97. Many would be like "who?" Really, as lame as it turned out being, Vince is the only person that could be cons a "higher power" than the Undertaker.

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  144. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:31 PM

    This should be fun...

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  145. You tell me, I'm bored.

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  146. Yeah, but Angle debuted in November and Big Show was mishandled from day one. Jericho's debuted was awesome and he really provided a spark in the mid-card

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  147. I didn't like the Greater Power thing at the time because it was all this nonsense that really just brought you back to square one: Austin and McMahon don't like each other, without any real development.

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  148. To be fair, Austin never fell down a hole looking for 'Austimaniacs', so Ministry wins by default. Although, the angle was fucking horrible, it's true.

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  149. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:34 PM

    Just having a beer and playing NASCAR on the 360. About to smash the thing, for some reason it won't read GTA5, even though the disc is flawless.

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  150. Angle was a star from day one I'd argue and yeah Big Show was mishandled a bit but I wouldn't say he was buried or anything, he still was being booked better than what WCW was doing with him.

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  151. ECW man... I will always point to that Anarchy Rulz ppv as a chance to really build something. Right around the ECW on TNN stuff starting. Taz leaving, RVD pretty much peaking at TV champ. Just let RVD put Lynn over on a hyped-up TV episode, then do Taz vs. Sabu vs. RVD at Anarchy Rulz, with Rob getting the belt and telling Taz to get the fuck out

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  152. I've been studying for my english classes and reading a book about the formation of the absolutist monarchies. On the video game side, I'm playing King of fighters 02/00/03

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  153. I always tend to feel Todd schools him whenever they debate. Alvarez just gets louder though and declares himself the victor. :)

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  154. Yeah, Angle was something special for sure.

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  155. Looking back on it (literally--rereading recaps from the time), it's amazing to see how much more attention the WWF paid to not pissing off the fans too much... and how *this very* angle was one of the first and worst middle fingers to the fans. You see in it the seeds planted for the unremitting Authority

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  156. Was this the exact moment Russo burnt out completely creatively?

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  157. My entire grade school was under the impression that Owen's death was hoax and he was going to be revealed as the higher power.

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  158. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:39 PM

    KOF is one of the few fighting games I like, but then again I'm a SNK mark. I should get my NEO-GEO CD from my mom's house and play some Metal Slug. That game is the shit.

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  159. My trio for KOF 2002: Ralf, Clark and K'

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  160. I'm sure it was before this, but this is the moment where the company as a whole kinda said "fuck it" and hit the reset switch, letting the fans flounder way more than they would have prior.

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  161. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:42 PM

    Ever play Capcom vs SNK? That game is fucking awesome.

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  162. That was definitely kicked around in my high school as well. Sad commentary

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  163. It was demoralizing, because it started to send the signal to the fans that the WWF could be just like WCW in never paying off their major stories. Austin never beating and driving away Evil Mr. McMahon was the same as WCW never defeating and driving away the NWO.

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  164. I have a SNK collection, has most KOF's and CVS2.

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  165. They definitely recovered post-Russo, but it was only temporary. Once the Angle/Steph angle got squashed, I think that was when they went into full Don't Give A Fuck Mode.

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  166. His last gasp was setting up Summerslam 99, it was down hill from there.

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  167. Yeah and for all the fun mid-card guys they debuted in that 98-99 window, no one was really on the rise. HHH went from upper carder to main eventer, but everyone else just kind of maintained and it didn't feel like anyone was really emerging as the next top guys to challenge the Austins, Rocks, Mankinds.

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  168. F'N Body Slams - Dan SelbyDecember 26, 2014 at 6:45 PM

    I heard Raven and Don Callis were both considered (and i'm sure there was someone else, too), but Raven's WCW contract had a 1 year no compete clause for WWF, hence why he took a 1 year contract at ECW, knowing he'd join WWF as soon as it expired.

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  169. I feel like the Deadly Game tourney was his peak, in terms of swerves. The Rock/Mankind feud carried things well enough, but the run-up to WM15 as well as that show itself showed that he was completely exhausted, creatively

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  170. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 26, 2014 at 6:46 PM

    One of the things I regret is giving my GameCube to my ex's son. Fucking guy is 24, and has never had a job. Can you believe that shit? I got my first job when I was fucking 14.

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  171. And what was so great about the Vince face turn was that they actually had wrapped up a year long storyline into a nice little package. A father's redemption. Austin has a heart. Evil banished forever. It would have been a shame to retire the Mr McMahon character so soon, but it would have been a great arc.

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  172. At least I help my folks when they need.

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  173. HHH vs. Angle is one of the great What Ifs of that period, where they could have had the rare combo of an Attitude Era soap opera angle blending well with an NWA throwback blood feud.

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  174. I think a lot of their troubles forced them to just focus on matches, which--surprise--wound up being well received. But alas...

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  175. It was definitely the time to go full-bore with Shane McMahon leading his own Corporation against Austin, Vince, DX, et al.

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  176. Yeah, I remember Raven's name getting kicked around. I was pretty stoked when he arrived in 2000, but man did that go nowhere. At the time I hoped for Saturn to turn back to his Flock-type character and reprise the tag team with Raven from 1999.

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