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The Time Limit


While reading through the blog, I noticed in a 80's tv show report, a match that ended with a time limit draw.  I remember back then whenever two non jobbers would fight on WCW/WWE tv, if there wasn't a disqualification, there would be a time limit draw to protect the stars.  When did the idea that matches having time limits end and what was the last "significant" time limit draw in wrestling?

​That reminds me, I was watching the first episode of Primetime posted to the Network as background noise while I wrapped presents this week, and holy balls who decided that Lanny Poffo v. Rene Goulet should run through a commercial break?  I can only imagine the reaction if they tried to fill 2 hours with the kind of curtain-jerking garbage that filled that show.  Main event of Sgt Slaughter Jr. v. Iron Sheik with a DQ finish?  NO BUYS.

Anyway, it's been a long while since there was a draw on TV, actually.  The Regal TV title matches in the 90s were the last ones I can think of off the top of my head.  Cena v. Michaels came close but then they did a finish instead.  So I'm of literally no help here.​

Comments

  1. They need to bring back time limit draws. Of course, WWE would completely overdo the concept and we'd be complaining about them quickly. The last time limit draw that I even remember was Owen-Bulldog in a 1995 RAW KOTR qualifying match, unless you want to count Barry Horowitz outlasting Skip for 10 minutes on a 1995 episode of Superstars.

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  2. I'm pretty sure TNA did one with Samoa Joe and Jeff Hardy back before they drove Joe into the ground.

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  3. No harm done - also not understanding of the backlash. I really enjoy your Raw recaps, and look forward to reading this coming Monday.

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  4. Not gonna happen any time soon. Vince hates time limits because he considers them too Southern.

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  5. I remember the whole angle being one of the first big misfires of the Attitude Era. We put up with the occasional stupid undercard feud, but who really gives a shit about some mindless comedy on useless guys? And sure, the Billy Gunn/Road Dogg switch at WrestleMania whatever was dumb. But fucking up the entire angle and going right back to Vince/Austin? Kind of a dick move.

    Alas, I also see the point of having Vince be THE GUY, since they had noone else meaningful in the position. Maybe a quick hire away from WCW would have been good, but... who? If nobody good was jumping, they didn't have much else to go on. Jake Roberts would have done great promos (especially since he had reason to hate Austin- losing KOTR and having his religion made fun of- I could see him turning to "Satan Himself" to get his revenge), but he was a general fuck-up and not physically credible any longer.

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  6. "This beat the clock Challenge is scheduled for 1 fall, with a 5 minute time limit"


    - Mind explodes.

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  7. God World Champion DDP was so awful. I know he worked hard, and improved a lot... but that guy was NOT a World Champion Guy. He just wasn't. The jeans, ugly tattoos and the white trash look couldn't pull it off. And knowing that he was Bischoff's buddy made it look all the worse.

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  8. Which guy? Flair, Austin or The Rock?

    I'd say all three, really. Though "idolize" is the best word for the first one.

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  9. It's odd, because you can see in his mind how beating Angle would be "best" for him, since he just beat the guy AND got his wife back. But I guess the thought of having his wife fuck around on him was JUST TOO EMASCULATING or something, and they threw the whole thing off the rails.

    I mean, I don't know the guy personally, but the whole angle seems to go so far away from the logical conclusion that I can only assume the powers that be interjected for personal reasons.

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  10. My parents thought I was bullshitting them when I came home, too, but figured it out as soon as the news started talking about it.

    I mean, it's not like wrestling isn't above faking deaths to get angles over.

    BUT... all you really had to do was see the look on Lawler's face, and hear his voice. He is NOT that good an actor to be able to fake that shit. Soon as he cut in with "it doesn't look good" with that tone I was like "oh SHIT".

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  11. Chicken shit heel who keeps his TV Title with time limit draws is the easiest thing to write. I don't know how WWE has avoided this.

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  12. and he was pretty high most of the time at this point.

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  13. Takers groun, Austin's Knees, Foleys everything. A lot of walking wounded in the main event at that point.

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  14. The #1 time limit that needs to run out is the time limit on AndyPG's posting privileges.

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  15. It was a perfect fit for Regal too because his European style led to lots of semi-stalling maneuvers that would tie guys in knots and limit their ability to mount a sustained offense except for the last 90 seconds of the match.

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  16. Yeah, I really don't get the hate. I guess the Blog just needs a reason to get its trollish hackles up over something every once in a while, and chose Andy as the next victim. Okay, having good topics shoved onto the second page before you've read them can be annoying if you miss a day or two, but let's not act like the blog is swamped in topics.

    Good on Andy for taking the hint and scaling back, though. Meekin really, REALLY threw meat to the lions by openly whining about his treatment and then continued talking about his life in his many posts.

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  17. It seems so weird to hear "Greater Power". Though I know I often mix up what old "famous sayings" and stuff are. I guess people's brains just switch things around sometimes. Like how "Magic Mirror on the wall" became "Mirror, mirror, on the wall"

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  18. As the Monday Night Wars have shown, it can take a YEAR for fans to switch over (or off) once a product starts sucking. Nitro was churning out feces for MONTHS before RAW finally beat them, and if you read the reviews on this very site, it quotes the ratings, in which some of the most legendary, classic shows in RAW history only beat Nitro by mere percentage-points.

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  19. The matches were AWFUL compared to today's. 1998 & '99's wrestling fans would be astonished and jealous that we were seeing 15-20 minute Main Events regularly. RAW was like if it hit twenty minutes COMBINED in in-ring content. And even then the show included D'Lo Brown and Jeff Jarrett in its Top Five Workers more often than not.

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  20. Jim.Ross has Podcasted about utilizing the 10 minute draw again on tv

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  21. Too "wrestling"

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  22. The Ministry was just an assortment of Jobbers plus some enforcers- they were never even serious contenders for the most part. The Brood were basically JTTS, so was Mideon & Viscera. Only the APA had any kind of credibility.

    The Dungeon was this never-ending, constantly-churning barrage of guys who'd fight Hogan in Main Events all the time. Plus it was '80s and cartoony, while the Ministry was all '90s bad-assedness and Satanic.

    The two stables were used in very different ways.

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  23. He mentions this in EVERY episode. At least it feels that way.

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  24. Angle suggests HHH nixed the triangle storyline because HHH thought he would look too much like a stupid face for letting it get that far.


    I think more of the reality was that HHH knew he'd be 3rd face behind Rock and soon to be returning Austin... and don't forget that HHH immediately shoehorned himself into the Austin feud with the stupid Rikishi stuff.


    IWC smark blah blah, I don't care... that asshole really ruined everything with his stupid petty political bullshit. WWE has never been the same they killed the love triangle. So much $$$$ and legitimate mainstream appeal blown for no reason.

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  25. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 27, 2014 at 12:32 AM

    Because they're "writing", not "booking".

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  26. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 27, 2014 at 12:35 AM

    I personally hat time limit draws. If I'm going to sit through a long match, I don't think an ending to said match is too much to ask.

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  27. I think ROH is the only major promotion that does time limit draws, and even then that's just for proving ground matches.

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  28. A draw is an ending.

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  29. I think it's time to bring back time limits and draws. I'll take that over 50/50 booking where a hot act jobs to a roll-up out of nowhere to someone who's lost every match over the previous three months just to "get his heat back". Or, god help us, the musical distraction.

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  30. HHH/Rock Fully Loaded was a time limit draw and an excellent draw at that. Hollywood Rock was great and all but 1998 Nation/Corporate Rock is up there as well.

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  31. It's good to see Naomi get some time to shine. She's can really go, I love her moveset and athleticism (and actual ring athleticism, not the usual Barbie-model "I can do a cartwheel" athleticism)

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  32. This is the part that never gets talked about. Austin had the last laugh at the end of that segment and it furthered their storyline even more. They went into creative ways to milk the Austin/McMahon angle for all its worth. Made McMahon into even more of an asshole who deserved having his arch nemesis become the CEO of the company. Justified Stephanie McMahon's heel turn later on against Vince (This family was highly dysfunctional and, for a little awhile, it was part of their charm) and it made me want to see Austin win the World title even more. I liked it and I felt like it made sense at the time. Being 10, the WWF did no wrong.

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  33. Was Owen dead by then?

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  34. Ahhh good ol Slobberknocker Central

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  35. DDP was one of my favorites as a kid and all the main events that he headlined, which was 5, made him legit in my eyes. When he won it I was happy for him but WCW ruined it by turning him heel.

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  36. Stranger in the AlpsDecember 27, 2014 at 1:27 AM

    Ooookay, here's where I'm going to rant for a minute, and this is not a knock on you specifically, Tommy, because I've seen others on here say the same thing:


    How can anyone who calls themselves a wrestling fan dislike Smackdown? There are commenters on here who say that they have not watched an episode of Smackdown in a long time. I get that Friday night is a big night for some of you, and you can't be bothered. There is such a thing as a DVR in this age.


    Smackdown has NONE of the filler that RAW has. The promo at the beginning of this episode is the exception, as Smackdown usually does not have extended promos that fill up 20 minutes of air time. This show cuts to the chase and offers quality wrestling matches every week. Now, granted, over the years, there have been some real turkeys, but RAW has had more than it's fair share. Besides, how can you be a fan and MISS SHOWS? Even Superstars puts on a good to great match every week, if you can get past the highlight packages (hint: we have the capability to fast forward). I am an avid watcher of Smackdown every week, and I can usually find at least two pretty good matches worth seeing again. This is the show for people who can't stand the nonsense filler of RAW. It does lack in angle advancement most of the time, but who cares? Most of the current angles need to be killed off, really.


    With Smackdown moving to Thursday nights in January, and rumors of WWE wanting the show to be more like the 'A' show, I would expect more people to watch very soon. Meanwhile, those who have been watching (ie, me) already know that this show is not some worthless throwaway show.

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  37. No 'Vintage Horowitz'

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  38. I just hated him SO MUCH back then. Like an absolute, all-consuming hatred. Totally irrational (to the point where I made my e-mail address "ddp_hater". I think it was mainly the goofy face he made while doing his Hand-Signal- this ridiculous wide-eyed, frowny-faced look.

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  39. Triple-H's inability to ever be made to look weak is why it was so easy for fans to backlash against him. That one report where the video game magazine wasn't allowed to show images of him in vulnerable situations just proved to everyone what was really going on.

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  40. ROFL That's some pure hatred. I think I liked him because his feud with Raven was so awesome.

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  41. Damn, can't believe I forgot that one. It's a decent match, but I think I only rated it like *** or so because at the time neither guy had patented their signature spots or had an offense that was diverse enough to keep things interesting for 30 minutes. The one minute rest periods were pretty dumb. Their future bouts overshadowed it and were of much better quality.

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  42. Glad I'm not the only one. I find that his Raw reviews are pretty good. Much better then Perri's I fucking hated everything Main Event recaps.

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  43. I'd read his blog. I enjoy getting other people's prospectives on shows. Isn't that part of what makes wrestling fun? Discussing what you did and didn't like with people who also have a passion for the product?

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  44. Everyone getting treated like they mattered is, I think, the big thing. Rikishi or TAKA getting their HHH matches come to mind immediately when I think of that. Or Too Cool and Rikishi taking part in that amazing ten man tag. Back then, with that roster, a mid-card guy could interrupt an upper card guy's promo, and I'd think it was cool as hell. Nowadays, half the time the commentary team would undercut it by laughing off the mid-card guy, although I'm trying really hard to think of a guy for mid-card and a guy for upper card, because neither really exist anymore. I guess the best equivalency is that the mid-card is NXT and the upper card is the main roster?

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  45. I'd like that too because 10 minute draws could explain shorter TV matches because guys are in a hurry to end it in time.

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  46. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 27, 2014 at 2:59 AM

    No it's not. An ending is when someone wins and someone loses.

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  47. Or Jason Sensation doing his Owen impression.

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  48. Maybe it never gets talked about because that angle lead directly to the ladder match with the magical rising briefcase that was never explained.

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  49. So, anyone else strongly considering Wrestle Kingdom 9 as an order.

    I can count the number of NJPW matches I've seen this year on my hands, but the card looks strong and it's worth a shot with the shit state WWE is in.

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  50. Title matches have time limits (15, 45, and 60 minutes for the tv, tag, and world titles respectively.)

    TV is the only one to have a draw in the last couple years though.

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  51. WeLol, it's a matter of opinion that a GOOD ending has a winner and loser.

    But Zana is right, two people fighting to a draw is an ending.

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  52. Yeah, but you also had Rock becoming a mega face and the rise of HHH.

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  53. The Rock. Though I always hated the period where he tried being Flair.

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  54. Bring them back. They give a match urgency - someone like Orton using slow, stalling defence for thirteen minutes and the face coming back at 13 minutes and then hitting near fall after near fall for the last minute IS drama.

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  55. Yep. Really looking forward to it.

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  56. I think they're a great idea. It'd make 50/50 booking easier to justify or avoid and would make PPV matches with no time limit seem a bigger deal.

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  57. An ending is when something ends.

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  58. It's kind of odd in that, a) the stuff doesn't really hold up well upon re-watching it, and b) there wasn't necessarily a great payoff to the angles coming down the road, but in the moment Raw was absolutely appointment viewing for me and most of my friends. It was just *fun* to watch, and there was a sense of having no idea what was going to happen and of having very little time where you were bored.

    Nitro was the same way for a long time, and damned if I don't wish I'd have had a DVR back in 1997. Whether it holds up well now or not, it was just awesome to be there in the moment.

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  59. I remember liking St. Valentines Massacre (although I haven't watched the Austin-McMahon match in forever so no idea how that holds up), Unforgiven, No Mercy, and Armageddon, which was at the least a solid show that kicked off that epic run of early 2000 PPVs.

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  60. Yeah, DDP could have been a pretty solid transitional champion you could have made some hay with.


    1. His title win at Spring Stampede was a good send the fans home happy ending to a great show.



    2. He was still over with the crowd, and you had plenty of good TV to make with "hard working People's Champ DDP puts his title on the line every week on Nitro."


    3. 4-6 weeks later you have a heel screw him out of the belt or have someone turn on him to get extra heat and move on.

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  61. This whole time; The Higher Power, DDP finally winning the belt and then turning heel right away, the pretty forgettable undercard stuff, was all starting to show how limiting the ultra-fast television product of the Attitude Era could be. The need to constantly keep things changing and throw something BIG out every week for ratings sake couldn't really be sustained forever...but you obviously couldn't slow down the booking to set up consistent characters and big payoffs.

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  62. I seem to remember a Candace Michele/Alicia Fox 20-minute time limit draw on RAW back in04 or 05.

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  63. We all love great matches, but the matches on Smackdown all seem to be matchups that have been on TV a thousand times before. If all people wanted was "good" matches with no storylines or character development, people wouldn't watch WWE at all, they'd just watch Puro and this place would be Dock Muraco's Blog Of Doom. Smackdown on the occasions I watch it is never a bad show, it's just... there. If it didn't exist it wouldn't need to be created.

    Jimmy Uso vs The Miz? Naomi vs Alicia Fox? Adam Rose vs Truth? I can't imagine that's worth an hour of my time. Next week they'll likely reverse all those results and then I'll have wasted two hours.

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  64. I would be very much in favor of bringing back time limit draws and I always liked the WCW over the top rope dq rule too.

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  65. Speaking of the Network. Is anyone having problems signing in? I haven't been able to sign in or watch the network since last night. I click watch and it goes to a blank screen.

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  66. Majority opinion seems to be that nobody watches Smackdown because nothing important ever happens on Smackdown. When something important does happen, however, people complain that the event was "wasted" on Smackdown when nobody was watching. Well, why wouldn't WWE try to gain more viewers?

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  67. You dont belong here!

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  68. You were so friend zoned.

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  69. Sexy Flexy Biff KensingtonDecember 27, 2014 at 6:27 AM

    I had some trouble getting into Xbox Live, but once I logged in I was fine getting to the Network.

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  70. WWF was so good back then anyway, (and I was 11) so I didn't care. Plus it gave us that classic "IT'S ME AUSTIN, IT WAS ME ALL ALONG! Aw, sonuvabitch!" soundbyte so I can forgive it.

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  71. Sexy Flexy Biff KensingtonDecember 27, 2014 at 6:37 AM

    Time limit draws aren't inherently bad, if they figure into the match structure. Having guys go out and just putz around for 18 minutes and then telegraph a draw is bloomin' retarded.

    I loved J.R.'s idea on a podcast a few months ago about a TV Champion, who has a 15-20 minute time limit title defense every week against an underutilized or young talent. The implicit understanding being that the young guns have X-amount of time to get the job done.

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  72. Does this mean we're not getting a daily news round up on Wednesdays that we would normally get from Bayless anyway? Nuts.

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  73. You have weird tv. The kardashians are like in the 200's here.

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  74. I'm surprised Cole didn't say, "Naomi calls that the split-legged moonsault" at the end.

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  75. Two things I just noticed recently: Hogan dropped the feather boa, Ziggler dropped the Rick Rude hip-swivel from his entrance.

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  76. "I generally like you" Dont take this as an attack Dave cause I like your posts. But im pretty sure id rather have someone hate me than have someone "generally like me". That's like saying "your moms a whore!.... Sometimes."

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  77. For some reason Vince probably thinks time limit draws are stupid, but he doesn't have a problem with a PPV main event ending as a "draw" because Big Show comes out and punches everyone (i.e. Battleground 2013)

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  78. People always point at the Fingerpoke of Doom for killing WCW. But Nitro's ratings were solidly in the 4s after that until April 26, 1999, when they dropped into the 3s permanently. That was shortly after DDP got the title. Page was out of the title hunt after the next PPV until the whole David Arquette mess the following year.

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  79. Vince will always hate Austin. This is why the only comeback match that makes sense is the Vince vs. Hunter "avatar" match they're always talking about.

    Hunter picks the wrestler Vince hates the most: Steve Austin.

    Vince picks the wrestler Hunter hates the most: CM Punk.

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  80. I had that problem with Firefox. I had to clear off all the cookies, and it worked fine afterwards.

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  81. It would be a great way to differentiate between tv and PPV. Tv has 10-15 minute time limits while PPV does not.

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  82. Yo stop dissing me, biatch

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  83. Have you seen Big Show LIVE? His hands are like frying pans!

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  84. Who is Sgt. Slaughter Jr.? I know Iron Sheik Jr. is Artie Lange
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jR7_WiHI1g

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  85. Sexy Flexy Biff KensingtonDecember 27, 2014 at 7:21 AM

    This speaks to a bigger problem I think with the product right now: it's allegedly 'sports entertainment', but these days they try to make it 'entertainment with athleticism' versus an actual sporting exhibition. It may seem like splitting hairs, but it's little things that contribute to killing off the good things about wrestling.

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  86. I like time limit draws but Orton needs a whole lot more than that to become even remotely interesting

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  87. I thought every TV title match in WCW did that. Maybe not always with a young gun though.

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  88. Adam "Colorado" CurryDecember 27, 2014 at 7:37 AM

    Random: I finally just saw the infamous Sharmell/Jenna match. Jesus H. tap dancing Christ, that was a fucking DISASTER. Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to try to work a match in a prom dress? Though the pussy shot of Jenna during her entrance was *****, I'll give it that.

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  89. Oh hey! That worked! Thanks. You are officially better than WWE customer service. If you'll indulge me.

    I sent them an email through the website and haven't heard back. I think I first noticed the problem on Thursday. Similarly I had a problem with HuluPlus. Hulu sent me an email right away, saying to be patient and someone would contact me. They then sent me an email the next morning fixing the problem.

    I haven't heard squat from WWE and I wonder how long it will be until I do, if I hear anything at all.

    Another CSB. I went to the ROH: Final Battle show in NYC. Anyone who went to it knows that almost all of the General Admission tickets didn't actually let you see the ring. I sent an email to ROH, not asking for my money back, but saying they should pick a different venue for the next show. I got an email back within 2 hours asking for my address so that as an apology, they could send me something. They sent me two DVD sets. It's almost as if they understand that the fans are the reason they stay in business.

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  90. WE'RE HAVIN' FUN MAGGLE!!!

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  91. Big Show was mishandled after about 2 weeks when they jobbed him to Austin on Raw which was always the deal when they would job WCW jumpers like the Jericho and Radicalz when they started

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  92. I'm pretty sure that Benoit and Booker T had at least one 10-minute draw in their feud over the TV title in 1998.

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  93. That's one thing I've always appreciated about ROH. Usually, the finishers are kicked out of, so a lot of matches end on middle-tier moves. Apples to oranges, though....

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  94. Time limits would make shows like Extreme Rules mean more because there wouldn't be any and you could guarantee a winner. You know something to make these B level PPVs not feel like another episode of Raw.

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  95. One of the first episodes of Nitro I saw had Rey Mysterio go to a time limit draw against I think Dean Malenko. I remember Rey kept saying to the camera and shouting to the crowd he just needed five more minutes, and that was the first time I heard him speak.

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  96. ehh, while WWF was certainly getting better in 1997 and putting on a compelling product, WCW had Sting/Hogan that was captivating audiences. From a personal standpoint (and I say this as someone who just never got into Austin/Mcmahon), I continued to find WCW the more interesting product until at least the summer of 98 and the fiasco that was Leno followed by Ultimate Warrior. Ratings were growing for BOTH shows during this period. So in essence, it wasn't that WCW was actively bad to most viewers, it was simply that T&A and Austin was bringing in more bandwagon viewers than the NWO and goldberg. But ratings rose for WCW during 98 for the most part, so it really wasn't shedding audience, it was just unable to grab nearly as much of the new viewers as WWF.

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  97. yeah it's crazy to watch some of the old matches from the 70s and before and the moves that ended a match. One in particular that stood out was Verne Gagne's match on the AWA set. Being conditioned to expect finishers, it was weird and I found myself wondering how in the world the guy couldn't kick out, but then I remembered when they made us wrestle in P.E. in high school and how hard it was to get out of a pin if the guy pinning you didn't want you to get out.

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  98. that is very true. Old time things like talking about moving up the ranks, the winner's share of the purse, etc. made it seem more legit. I like that type of commentary.

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  99. I'm pretty sure I remember Kevin Kelly on PTB pretty much saying they didn't know what the hell they were doing or wanted to go with the angle anyway, so it's no surprise nothing made sense in the end. But hey, giant ratings. Win.

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  100. I still say a DDP title reign would have worked if he was a face. He was massively over as one during the Monday Night War, but by the time he got the chance he was heel and the company was going down the drain pretty quickly, and at that point a DDP title reign wasn't the answer to their troubles.

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  101. Yup, I specifically remember Jake's name being tossed around a lot during that period. Didn't think it was ever going to happen, but people were talking.

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  102. Did they hook the leg in P.E?

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  103. On the old Saturday nights, Tully Blanchard would regularly go to the 10-minute time limit draw in TV title defenses. And he would celebrate the draws as victories since it was the challengers job to defeat him. It was good for his heel character and it kept the idea that the title was always in jeopardy and eventually he wouldn't get so lucky.

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  104. I think if they gave an up and coming, mid-level babyface a shot at the title against a top heel champ as the main event of RAW and had the face challenger just barely miss out on winning the title when the time expired, it would be a great way to elevate someone.

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  105. Sting/Flair <<< Flair/Luger.

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  106. I don't like ROH's formula either. I think the right idea is that finisher's do in fact end matches, but that every finish shouldn't involve a finisher.


    I think the problem is that the current match structure (for both WWE and ROH) means you wait until the finishers start happening and that's when you know the match is climaxing. There's almost no reason to give a care for the first 10-15 minutes of a big match.

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  107. Sexy Flexy Biff KensingtonDecember 27, 2014 at 9:32 AM

    Absolutely. I was going back and watching Starrcade '83 on Christmas Eve for the Hell of it, and I was struck by the purpose of the commentary team. Bob Caudle (the Mid-Atlantic guy) and Gordon Solie (the guest play-by-play lead) simultaneously pimped the product [i]and[/i] made the matches seem more important by treating it as a legitimate contest, and not some soap opera bullshit. It's the same deal for the last fifteen years: Vince and his writers think that the gaga behind the scenes is more important than what happens inside the ring, and the commentary on Monday nights and PPVs/Specials bear that out.

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  108. Sexy Flexy Biff KensingtonDecember 27, 2014 at 9:33 AM

    Upvote for the NFL 2K series reference. Those games were amazing.

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  109. If I remember correctly, this was at the end of 1996. For some reason, WWE threw this on one of their "Best of Nitro" DVD sets despite it not being the best TV match they had together that year (I remember it being **-**1/4; took about six or seven minutes to get going and they only got 10).

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  110. The "how can you be a true fan and not do ____" is a bad argument. People are fans of different things. I watch a ton of PWG, ROH, DGUSA, and NJPW, am I not a fan of wrestling because I don't watch one particular show?

    Smackdown could be the best wrestling show ever by your qualifications and it still wouldn't necessary be anything anyone else would want to watch.

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  111. Had EA not signed an exclusive deal with the NFL, 2K would've blown Madden up, just like it did to NBA Live.

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  112. also that show just blew away wm 4 as far as quality goes up and down the card.

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  113. Thats ridiculous. Its a 3 act structure...why would you care about the first 2 acts of a film or play? The first two acts, while often enjoyable in their own right, give the climax meaning.

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  114. I met him at Axxxess 2001 - dude, they are freaking huge! His hand is bigger than my goddamn foot.

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  115. Stranger in the AlpsDecember 27, 2014 at 9:47 AM

    I actually watch the shows without any smark-tinted glasses. So when Cesaro is losing to Erick Rowan, I don't get all "WTF?". I don't find myself as jaded as lot of other commenters here.

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  116. Does that necessarily mean they were piped in? Couldn't they focus the audio on them in post-production. Serious question, I'm a novice when it comes to that kind of thing.

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  117. Smackdown is way, WAY easier to sit through than Raw. In my case, it's not that I don't like it, but rather it's repetitive. You know exactly what you're getting on Smackdown and while it can be entertaining and often is, it would help a lot if there was something important on it once in awhile. When they give matches time and just let wrestlers wrestle, it's the best non-NXT show of the week.

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  118. I am too but I have a problem believing that Big Show would ever get a chant anymore. I haven't heard one in years (if ever) and now it's the loudest of the night, right when WWE is giving him a big push? That's a bit hard to buy.

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  119. It was very Black Scorpion like all in all.

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  120. That's what I do nowadays. I try not to take everything so seriously. I view the weekly shows as what house shows used to be and the monthly PPVS (except Rumble, Mania, Summerslam, Survivor Series) as something similar to the MSG big shows in the past.

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  121. Stranger in the AlpsDecember 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM

    I take back what I said about "true fans" and all that. That's really generalizing and painting in broad strokes. The rest of it, however: I'm just a big WWE mark and always have been. I find it hard to maintain any interest in other promotions when I've tried. I have never committed to a complete episode of Impact...ever. I've tried ROH and found myself.....uninterested.


    I've done reviews on the blog before, and I always rate matches higher than others would have, mainly because I'm just glad to be watching something that I find hard to find fault in.

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  122. Stranger in the AlpsDecember 27, 2014 at 11:30 AM

    It's hard to avoid insider information in this age. I don't really check out any of the news sites like I used to. The daily updates here on the blog are usually my dose of information. What I choose to do with that knowledge, really, is read it and then move on. It doesn't add or take away from my viewing. If Cesaro mouthed off backstage about something, and is being punished onscreen for it, that doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the product. I enjoyed Daniel Bryan's rise to the top in early 2014, but I wasn't one of the vocal smarks clamoring for it. In other words, whatever is on screen in front of me at the time, is what I'm responding to. If Daniel Bryan ended up a member of the Wyatt Family, so be it.


    FYI, I'm one of those guys that thought Vince Jordan brought some good posts to the table. I'm just not as smarky as the majority here.

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  123. Didn't Bossman do it?

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  124. And if not them then pretty much anyone in wrestling ever.

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  125. That's the assumption, but there was never any confirmation, and they never addressed it aside from the following night on Raw, and even that was just addressing that it happened.

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  126. Holy shit, Cole & JBL were especially insufferable on this show, even more than usual.

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  127. Yeah, Goldberg was beyond huge at this time, and the nWo was still a big deal. But the show was getting steadily worse as the WWF gained steam. WCW's prior momentum was carrying them for a good while.

    And this is coming from a guy who straight up dumped WWF for WCW a year or two prior, thanks to the nWo and the Cruiserweights. WCW's in-ring product was still better for like another year.

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  128. Well Vince was rich. I just figured he'd pay someone to do it, or have one of his goons do it. I never thought much about the reveal.

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  129. The face/heel alliances would be a mess, but kudos on coming up with a clever way of getting back to an Austin/Punk feud.

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  130. I really can't argue with that. As starscreamlive said, it was mostly just ribbing...although I am not a fan of your writing, the jokes I make are Internet shit talk just for the sake of it. But yeh...less self promotion, more just get to the point.

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  131. I agree. I just put it out there though because it's the only way I see Austin/Punk ever happening. Which it won't. But why not?

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  132. At the time I was all into it, I was 16 years old and marking out like crazy. But looking back it don't hold up well. Yeah, it was greatly succesful at the time, but looking back it was pretty terrible.


    Jericho's debut was good, but the rest of the year he did nothing notable. The feud with Chyna was eye-rolling. He didn't really do anything of note until 2000. And Angle's star power wasn't exactly realized in the mere month and a half he was on the roster in 1999.


    They squandered any drawing power Big Show could've had within a month.


    Austin and The Rock were the exceptions, both did great things that year, especially with each other.

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  133. Yeah, I remember that, apparently he was supposed to be the guy who lifted the briefcase at King of the Ring '99, as well as the guy who attacked Austin in the hallway with a cinder block on RAW.

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  134. While not meeting
    many of the professional credentials (think Scott, Meltzer, Alvarez, shit, even T-Princess because of the professional way she carries herself) we members of the IWC like our writers to
    have, Andy is clearly a life-long WWE fan with posts demonstrating his love, knowledge, and
    understanding of the product. Combined with his natural writing ability, I'd have to say his posts, and posting rights, should be here to stay. Let's be frank. No one's reading his PPV rants - he can try, but we all come here for Scott. Period. But when guys go on a limb and show some creativity, like this post and yeah, even Meekin's posts got attention, which is all we want - we crap all over them. We deftly use anonymous commenting to paint vibrant landscapes and bring our hateful attitudes to life, in an attempt to convey fear in a multitude of ways. I hope posts like these keep coming because they sure keep me interested in reading what like minded fans think.

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  135. That's "I Really Fucking Hated Everything Main Event" recaps.

    And ever try watching one? I dare you to say, "Well, that was a *** to **** star show!!!"

    All that said, I say what I say because I like hearing you bitch. I also like Andy because he's honest.

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  136. Good. Glad you ignore us. Also, the TD write-ups aren't "gone". The show's on hiatus and returns in about a week.

    Also, while I don't have nearly the amount of readers Scott's does, my blog has a pretty decent following and I'm proud of that because it's growing by the month. Last month had the most hits we've ever had.

    But, then, I'm explaining myself to a guy who has some sort of weird issue with emoticons, so...

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  137. back when it was on Ion TV, I watched every week.

    Here's my thing: I enjoy wrestling. I watch wrestling because it reminds me what it was like to be a little kid. Now, despite knowing that it's all a work, I like being drawn into the angles, the characters and the athleticism.

    I'm not saying they are all winners, but it feels to me like you honestly got tired of reviewing the show at times. If I'm wrong, then I apologize.

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  138. I think you may be on to something, though it's partially true. I tire of sitting through RAW. I think that's because of the length. I may be wrong. I DO enjoy Main Event, though the show has taken a massive dip in quality and it's hard to sit through a C-squad tag match, the requisite Diva disaster and the "main event" which rarely lives up to that designation.

    Case in point: I'm doing the recap from last week because Andy forgot to cover me for it (or something, I don't know) and the main event appears to be Jack Swagger and Luke Harper.

    I can't even muster up the energy to be excited because Luke Harper has now gone from psycho with friends to solo psycho and Swagger's been chewed up and spit out and has no direction.

    I DO, however, hope Main Event gets better.

    And you don't owe any apologies. I didn't mean to be so sarcastic up there.

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  139. It would have been great if they played it out over a six-month period. Angle wins the title with Steph as his "manager", retains when he eventually faces Hunter. Steph & Kurt admit they've been fucking around, Steph is on the gravy train because she thinks Kurt is the future of WWF. Hunter stays the conniving heel and manipulator, but gets cheered because he's the wronged husband going after an even more douchey heel and his shitty Boss's daughter wife. Do a blood feud where Hunter costs Angle the belt (to Rock, to set up Rock vs. Austin), then run an epic double main of Rock-Austin and HHH-Angle at Mania 17. The feud can easily continue afterward too. You never have to turn HHH into a bouncing babyface or anything either.

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  140. No absolutely not. They had already sent Goldberg's star power crashing to earth and DDP was well down the depth chart behind Goldberg, Sting, Flair, Nash, etc. I don't know if they wanted it to be a Foley type moment or what, but it was bad timing and devalued the title at a time when WCW didn't need that. I honestly would have been OK with the Nash Starrcade win leading to an early '96 Diesel-esque monster heel run where Nash beats guys like DDP, Sting, Hart, Savage, Flair before dropping the belt back to Goldberg.

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  141. Yeah, but NObody else stays at the level HHH has without being married to the Boss's daughter. His 2002 return was garbage and he didn't do anything to warrant his push again for a while

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