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Randy Savage's WWF Title Run


Scott,

How was business going when the Macho Man was the WWF Heavyweight Champion for a year? Was he as over as Hogan? 

​No one was as over as Hogan, but Savage was a totally legitimate champion who drew just fine.  In fact after the heel turn he caught fire and probably should have remained champion, but that's a tough argument to make.  Really, he got to be World champion for a year during the peak of Hulkamania, I don't think he was complaining too much.  ​

Comments

  1. He also had to watch out for Hogan who had lust in his eyes for Elizabeth.

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  2. nah, Punk doesn't have the instability of Macho Man--he was a violent psycho kept grounded by (and driven insane by) his love for Elizabeth. Punk's just not that kind of angry. Never was.

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  3. Punk is angry and will tell you about what he deserves. Macho Man is insane and took what he deserved. The cream ALWAYS rises to the top.

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  4. Pfft, that skinny Macho Man never beat Hogan, brother!

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  5. They're doing it with Tyson Kidd and Natalya.


    But with a different, more PG-friendly form of background domestic abuse.

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  6. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJanuary 20, 2015 at 1:12 PM

    As a 10 year old at the time I was shocked when Savage slapped Hogan but looking back at it when I was older. I LOVED the slow build to that turn. It actually started at Summer Slam when Hogan hugs Liz and ever so subtly Savage gives him a "what the fuck are you doing?" look.

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  7. He never had to. The only title that defines Randy Savage is "Macho Man." And no one anywhere could ever take that from him.

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  8. I always agreed with Savage, Hogan had lust in his eyes.

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  9. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJanuary 20, 2015 at 1:17 PM

    I mean it was Liz...Wouldn't you?

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  10. I would put Rock and Savage in a class alone as the best heels WWE/F ever had.

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  11. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJanuary 20, 2015 at 1:18 PM

    Have to add Andre to that. Heel Andre was a scary motherfucker

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  12. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJanuary 20, 2015 at 1:19 PM

    I'd be all in if it meant that we would get to see a Punk/AJ version of "Together"

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  13. They didn't make Savage. He was born that way.

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  14. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJanuary 20, 2015 at 1:21 PM

    Can you imagine if Savage made it in pro baseball? Just how many bench clearing brawls would he have started?

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  15. Liz was overrated anyway. Give me these modern plastic bimbo divas any day. Im not telling you anything you didnt already know.

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  16. Well, he was promoted to Macho King at one point. I just always found it too bad that the Madness never really did overcome the Mania. Even Flair got a win over Hulk at one point, didn't he?

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  17. I think Savage did just fine, business wise, from April 88 thru April 89. He probably made Vince a ton of money.

    From a PPV standpoint, the Megapowers as a unit sold Summerslam and Durvivor Series so neither Hogan mor Savage alone can take full credit for the buyrates, which, iirc, were solid. The draw for Roual Rumble was probably the Rumble itself, but that's a wash.

    Savage really made his markmn the house shows, where most of the real money still was in those days. Hogan was filming a movie from WM IV to Summerslam so Ramdy pretty much carried the load by himself. His run with DiBiase in the spring and summer were very successful and there was no Hogan to fall back on for the most part (not counting Wrestlefest in Milwaukee). Hogan then came back and had a fall program with Boss Man on the house show circuit that did extremely well. Still, Savage was, at worst, still headlining the B shows for the rest of his reign and doing good numbers with retreads like Akeem and Andre. He never really got a solid program after DiBiase but still remained a draw as champ.

    So bottom line, Savage kept the Hulkamania boom going for at least oneore calendar year. In fact, he did a ton better than Hogan did post WM V and Warrior post WM VI. Those latter two were part of the decline. Dig it!

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  18. What about xpac and vicky Guerrero or even SStephanie McMahon. I mean people legit hated them. Everyone kinda wanted to be the Rock and Macho Man. I can see the argument from both sides.

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  19. The Love-Matic Grampa!January 20, 2015 at 1:30 PM

    Hogan vs. Savage could have carried the WWF for years and years. Instead, they put a crown on him and made him feud with Dusty and Sapphire. And he STILL made it work.

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  20. I can't believe Dusty got over wearing polka dots. Dude just had charisma.

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  21. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJanuary 20, 2015 at 1:35 PM

    Smacking around the Bossman as his debut didn't hurt either. Bossman was an ass

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  22. Yeah, I never got why they completely exiled Savage from the main event after Summer Slam 89. He had a long, post-WM V house how run with Hogan on top and they probably felt that it had run its course by September. And Vince of course wanted to push frickin Zeus. When that flopped, they switched to Mr. Perfect but he didn't have the credibility of Heenan or the IC title runs yet so he flopped almost as badly. By that point, the switch to Warrior probably was inevitable but that only drove business down further.

    I guess my point is that making Macho a mid carder is what indirectly led to the end of the 80s WWF boom.

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  23. Rock? I love the guy, but he was one of the prototypical "cool heels" who people love to criticize.

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  24. There are worse hands than a feud with Dusty.

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  25. I think HHH was a better heel than Rock. He carried the heel side of things for along time.

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  26. Via a women's shoe to the eye. Hogan also jobbed to Arn that way. Ladies shoes and hot coffee to WCW faces in 1995/96 were like steel steps to Brock Lesnar. Kryptonite.

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  27. Yeah, and if they hadn't saddled Dusty with all that ridiculous shit like the polka dots WWF could have probably had an awesome blood feud between 'royalty' and the 'common man.' Instead we got the kid-friendly version, which STILL managed to be good

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  28. I know the business was different back then but I still think it's bullshit that Savage didn't get a PPV title defence until it was time to give it back to Hogan. He barely even got to defend it on SNME.

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  29. The Love-Matic Grampa!January 20, 2015 at 1:49 PM

    NWA badass Dusty? Sure. Polka-dot wearing WWF Dusty? Eh.

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  30. As a heel, I'd rate Rocky above 2002-2003 HHH, but below McMahon-Helmsley HHH and 2004-2005 HHH.

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  31. The Love-Matic Grampa!January 20, 2015 at 1:51 PM

    That's a fair point. They never really found a foil for Hogan that had the charisma, credibility or talent that Savage had.

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  32. The Love-Matic Grampa!January 20, 2015 at 1:56 PM

    Yeah, it sounds great on paper. But Vince was never going to let Dusty be Dusty, and they clearly had an agenda with Savage, too. So what could have been a great main event-level blood saga turned into a midcard comedy feud.

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  33. Cool heels are awesome, maybe I would watch Raw if there were some cool heels on.

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  34. Yeah, it wasn't that Savage lost at WM so much as he ended up in midcard hell afterward.

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  35. I actually would like some cool wrestlers period.

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  36. Fair enough, you do have to partition HHH into eras. The McMahon-Helmsley era was on fire a a heel act. He really could do no wrong that whole run. He was the perfect foil for the Rock, and the two of them were able to keep business hot without Austin.

    And hell, Angle was really damn good as a heel too. He was the perfect old-school 'guy you wanted to see get beat up.'

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  37. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 20, 2015 at 2:03 PM

    I will forever contend that Wrestlemania 6 should have been Macho vs Piper, so that Dusty could have a blood feud with Rick Rude. Dusty and Rude were perfect conttasts. The common man who represented the average wrestling fan vs the elitist prick who sees Dusty as just another embarrassing sweathog. One Rude Awakening on Sapphire and you have yourself a blood feud

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  38. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJanuary 20, 2015 at 2:05 PM

    Agreed. The promos between Piper and Savage alone would have been insane.

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  39. The Love-Matic Grampa!January 20, 2015 at 2:05 PM

    Dusty gleefully wiggling his big fat ass in front of a disgusted Ric Rude? Yeah, that would have been money.

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  40. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 20, 2015 at 2:05 PM

    Hogan vs Warrior with Savage vs Piper would have been more worthy pf Macho's greatness at that point. The world really didnt need half-blackface Piper vs Bad News on the card

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  41. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 20, 2015 at 2:08 PM

    Hot as Macho was, Im not sure it was worth the risk to have him retain at Mania 5. The story arc was just too perfect. I would, however, have done a second Hogan vs Savage at SummerSlam to capitalize. Maybe a cage match to blow it all off?

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  42. Remember that commercial when savage plays baseball with that little kid?

    Because WWE doesn't go on strike, dammit!

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  43. The business was diff...oh, wait, nevermind.

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  44. Glad Savage won, he basically made that title into what it was in terms of midcard/worker/Next Guy title belt.

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  45. But that would rob us of Zeus!

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  46. that's what I meant by Punk not being "that kind of angry." He's bitter sure, but there's no madness, yeah...

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  47. The Love-Matic Grampa!January 20, 2015 at 2:33 PM

    Zeus would have been fine if they had made him a bodyguard who stands around looking impressive and takes almost no bumps until it's time to send him packing. Putting him the ring was a disaster.

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  48. Meltzer has reported many times that business remained strong (even better) after Wrestlemania IV and Savage winning the title. The DIbiase/Savage program drew very well and avoided the standard post-mania slump

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  49. I am pretty sure Zeus didn't take bumps regardless.

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  50. You can't argue with it as it gave us the awesome sight of him and Sherri on thrones atop a platform carried to the ring by a bunch of jobbers. Someone today really needs to steal that entrance.

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  51. The other thing that helped him post-Mania was hooking up with Sherri as she was, basically, the female Savage. Competely wild, totally out there in promos, able to help him out in fights, the insane outfits, they just clicked perfectly and helped boost Savage more as the mega-heel.

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  52. Having no idea who Dusty was prior to his WWF run I had no idea what the appeal was.

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  53. I just wish the match would have been better ... I mean, its a great match but every time I watch I feel like there should have been more given the build.

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  54. they were kind of booked into a corner - Hogan beats him at Mania, beats him at Summerslam, beats him in the cage match for the movie he made. There was nowhere else for Savage to go.

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  55. Yeah I love the subtle little reactions too -- although I wish the announcers had called less attention to them at times. Survivor Series 1988 in particular. You already knew it was coming, so it didn't need to be SPELLED out for you, but I guess I appreciated that when I was a kid.

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  56. Fuck it, I'm cheating here. So, we're working on something of a large project at P2B. This is the perfect thread for what I need. Can someone give me a somewhat definitive list of Savage's best 1988 matches? Thanks in advance.

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  57. vs Million Dollar Man at WrestleFest

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  58. Sexy Flexy Biff KensingtonJanuary 20, 2015 at 3:46 PM

    The Mega Powers angle is an all-time great for a reason; Savage more than held up his end as one half of the Mega Powers. It wasn't a situation where Hogan had to prop Savage up. Savage's run from 1986 to 1992 is one of the all-time great stretches. In terms of memorable storylines, he was right up there with Hogan.

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  59. As for business with Macho as champ Hogan himself said(usual grain of salt disclaimer but since it's not about him he's maybe telling the truth) "macho was the only guy where we could pass the belt onto and business wouldn't suffer at all."

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  60. Looking back, it's insane that Savage was phased out by early 1993. Savage-Bret would've saved WrestleMania IX from being the heaping pile of shit it's remembered as.

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  61. Attendance for Survivor Series '88 was way down from '87.

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  62. I don't think they ever had good opponents lined up for Savage for his title run. Other than DiBiase, he had to work with OMG, Andre, Bad News Brown, and then Akeem (again, sort of). They were trying to do the Hogan formula, where Savage took on the big, fat heel, but that wasn't his game.

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  63. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJanuary 20, 2015 at 4:10 PM

    I hear they had pretty good IC Title tournament match a few days ago.

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  64. To be fair, such a person did not exist.

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  65. Yeah, but Vince was going to try to recapture Hulkamania so it wasn't going to be about Bret or Savage anyway.

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  66. I think only in the WWF did Dusty use his drop kick.

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  67. Blah blah blah something about the Mountie.

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  68. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJanuary 20, 2015 at 4:38 PM

    What about him? Did he finally get out of jail?

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  69. More importantly, did he ever get his man?

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  70. Bad News was the shit

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  71. If it happened today it'd probably end up more like CM Punk with a plastic tommy gun.

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  72. AverageJoeEverymanJanuary 20, 2015 at 4:56 PM

    Bossman should have kidnapped Sweet Sweet Sapphire and cooked her and made Dusty eat her.

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  73. GOD BLESS YOU RANDY SAVAGE! I AM A BETTER MAN FOR HAVING EXPERIENCED YOUR LIGHT.

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  74. YankeesHoganTripleHFanJanuary 20, 2015 at 5:03 PM

    And now I have the horrific image of Dusty eating out Sapphire stuck in my head...so...you know...thank you for that.

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  75. But my Mom says he's the coolest kid in school!

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  76. 1/9/88 Savage vs HTM in a Steel Cage. Philadelphia.
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8u69w_cage-match-randy-savage-vs-honky-to_shortfilms


    3/5/88 Savage & StrikeForce vs HTM and The Hart Foundation in a Steel Cage. Boston.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50sXWB7J7Ws



    3/12/88 Savage vs Dibiase SNME.
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6feld_randy-savage-vs-ted-dibiase_sport



    5/10/88 Savage vs Virgil Duluth
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZniRFsuUo0



    10/10/88 Save vs Bad News Brown MSG.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h2OYAq81Dg



    And all the other fun stuff like WM4 and Survivor Series and a bunch of Dibiase matches and the Andre matches if you're into that sort of thing.
    http
    http

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  77. I know it's stupid to suggest a heel turn when Hogan was at his peak of popularity, but I have long imagined that if Hogan had turned heel rather than Savage, it would have been THE ultimate underdog scenario, much more so, even, than when Hogan had to face the Giant at III.

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  78. I legit had a nightmare about him once when I was a kid.

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  79. Savage wasn't #3 in the Mega Powers, he was #1. Hogan and Liz had him in the back seat!

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  80. Most of these are matches I would've picked as well. Plus Summer Slam and Survivor Series. Also, his matches with Andre were not bad, and his Main Event match with Honky was good.

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  81. A cage match at Summer Slam or WrestleFest had they done one for a big TV show would've been epic. Sadly had to wait until December, because Why have a Merry Christmas, when you can have a No Holds Barred Christmas!!!!!

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  82. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 20, 2015 at 7:49 PM

    Rick Rude was RIGHT THERE too, especially after dropping the IC title back to Warrior at SummerSlam. A fall feud with Macho before the heel turn on Hogan?

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  83. Exactly? How do you not do a Rude/Savage feud over Rude hitting on Elizabeth?



    That said, I heard an apocryphal story that it was proposed but Savage vetoed it because, you know, he more or less lived the gimmick at that point in his life.

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  84. He did, but he was too busy jet-flyin', limousine ridin', wheelin', deelin', and kiss stealin' at the time.

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  85. Your timeline is off. Rude was around, but he Savage was already a heel prior to Rude losing the IC title back to Warrior.

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  86. The thing though is, how do you book that. Mania was always thought of as the place where fans are sent home happy. I, of course, would love to see Savage come out on top there, but the live crowd might have been a different story.

    To me there really was no way not to do Hogan going over there.

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  87. I'll never be able to eat glazed donuts again.

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  88. I just remember Hogan grabbing her ass

    Work place sexual harassment, not even once

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  89. 8 years later and this is Hogan and Liz having worked together the entire time, but not before convincing everyone that Savage was just paranoid.

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  90. They never tried Jake Roberts or Rick Rude.

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  91. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:23 AM

    Yeah, you're right. I meant in 1988, after the first SummerSlam. MegaPowers win their tag match at SummerSlam, Rude beats JYD to get some heat. Rude targets Liz as a catalyst for pursuing Savage's title. Hogan can keep beating fat heels until the MegaPowers explode. Survivor Series '88 could have been Team Savage vs. Team Rude and Team Hogan vs. Team Dibiase/Andre. Both MegaPowers stay partners and continue feuding with Heenan family dudes through the fall.

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  92. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:24 AM

    Interesting. Seems in-line with what we hear about Savage & Liz. Unfortunate too because I think that could have been one of the greatest feuds ever.

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  93. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:25 AM

    They should have built up Yokozuna for the expressed purpose of being Hogan's "comeback" win at Mania 9. You can still do Bret vs. Savage for the title and do a "co-main" with Hogan-Yoko to see if the juice is still there in Hulkamania without committing the title and making Bret look second-rate

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  94. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:27 AM

    It worked on a whole other level too. As you mention, Sherri was just like Savage, so his whole paranoid character spiraling into a desperate wildman heel made sense. Liz was what helped him level out and without her, he was out of control for a while. When she comes back to him in '92, he goes back to being babyface Macho Man again without it feeling contrived. Great subtle story, especially for the time

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  95. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:29 AM

    Man, that Zeus thing really brought it all down several notches. They come off the best story arc of that era between Hogan-Savage, then roll right back into Hogan vs. Monster nonsense.

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  96. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:29 AM

    Hiding him in a 10-on-10 Survivor Series match is fine, but, yeah, the one-on-one thing killed it all

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  97. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:31 AM

    Yep. They EASILY could have run a re-match at SummerSlam for a big payday. Macho gets even more batshit crazy and obsessed after losing the belt at Mania. Have him get increasingly violent and provoke a re-match out of Hulk for SummerSlam.

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  98. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:33 AM

    Yes. Both would have been tremendous. Roberts in '91 would have been cool too. If Warrior didn't flake out, they could have done Hogan/Warrior vs. Roberts/Taker at Survivor Series or 4-on-4 with Hogan/Warrior/LOD vs. Roberts/Taker/Nastys or something.

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  99. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:34 AM

    Hows about the man in your avatar, sir? Maybe the best pure heel ever, IMO

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  100. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:36 AM

    Yeah, I don't think Savage needed to retain in order to keep Macho the top heel in meaningful programs after Mania 5. If he was still white hot as a heel by SummerSlam, have Macho regain the belt there. Maybe Zeus shows up to help Savage win a cage match. Kicks off the Hogan-Zeus nonsense, while putting Macho back on top as heel champion (with a WIN over Hogan) and do Savage-Warrior at Wrestlemania 6?

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  101. Rude-Beefcake and Perfect-Dusty would've worked, too; then they still could've done Hogan-Warrior and Savage-Piper.

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  102. If ANYBODY was as cool as Rude or Savage now, I'd watch every week.

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  103. Never was going to happen - but awesome what if.

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