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Flair - tough guy?



Question for you Scott... the NWA historically had a champion that could take care of himself in case someone tried to shoot and take the belt.  Is there anytime that you can think of that Flair had to fight off a shooting opponent?

Only the guys that he stiffed on the bar tabs.  

Comments

  1. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!February 27, 2015 at 11:30 AM

    Shawn Michaels is as overrated as Roman Reigns isn't meaty thigh sexy.


    BELEE Matt.

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  2. A few more for the emailer;


    *Shawn had an improbably good match with Goldberg on RAW.
    *Shawn carried HHH several times while HHH was at his worst as a worker in '02-04
    *Sid is probably the very best example, on Raw, Survivor Series, and Royal Rumble.
    *Chris Masters on some throwaway PPV.
    *Young Undertaker at the first cell match.
    *Kane several times over the years.

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  3. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!February 27, 2015 at 11:32 AM

    "Young Undertaker". lol


    Everything else, true.

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  4. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!February 27, 2015 at 11:33 AM

    This has nothing to do with Roman Reigns, therefore should be invalid.

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  5. Taker was awful in '97. His only decent matches were with Shawn and Bret.

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  6. He got three snowflakes out of a juiced Chris Masters.

    /topic

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  7. Is the radio person Dave LaGreca?

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  8. Roman Reigns will never be the official spokesperson for a state lottery! Woo!

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  9. I'd rather watch a Sid match than Ric Flair. Thanks.

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  10. Taker was fine from 96-98

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  11. Kidding aside, Vader apparently tried to stiff him (if not SHOOT, per se). Apparently Flair hit back, and Vader played nice after that.

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  12. The closest I heard to Flair having to alter a finish was when he insisted on jobbing the NWA title to Jack Veneno because the Caribbean crowds were insane. Flair wasn't a shooter per se, but he was trained by Gagne so he knew his way around the ring I'm sure. If you look at where he traveled as champ it was to pretty friendly territories to Crockett -- St. Louis, Dallas, Florida that wouldn't pull a stunt. As for Caribbean and Japan and other foreign territories they wouldn't do that because 1) the switch could easily be ignored, 2) they wouldn't be able to book any foreign stars if they did that. Really the worry about people shooting on a champ was over and it was more a champion having to worry about the promoter that owned the belt doublecrossing them (Richter, Hart, etc).

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  13. I didn't realize that was a thing, dismissing Michales as a top rate, greatest of all time caliber worker, until a few years ago (Thanks Place2Be, and some of your more...confused podcast hosts). It's...really stupid. He's no where near my favorite, but good god, he was amazing.

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  14. St. Louis could be a crapshoot just because it wasn't a territory. If King Kong Brody wanted that title he was gonna beat up Flair, but thankfully he was a businessman.

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  15. The only negative thing I can ever say on HBK workrate were related to the occasional hissy fit in a match like when he got pissed at Vader during their SummerSlam match. Other than that anyone ever saying HBK was overrated as a worker is in the same boat as Al Queda and needs to be destroyed.

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  16. That series with Shawn was one of the only saving graces of HHH's reign of terror in '02-'04.

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  17. He was awful, but he wasn't exactly "young" or anything. He was a 10+ year vet at that point. He was just lazy for the most part after working with stiffs forever.

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  18. Bundy would have to catch Flair first lol. The ownership in St. Louis would never do anything like that and if someone tried to go into business for himself, Race would beat the holy hell out of them.

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  19. Wait...where the Roman Reigns question?

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  20. King Kong Brody is bruiser Brody.

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  21. Questioning HBK must be the hip thing now.

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  22. Needs more Roman Reigns bashing.

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  23. Theberzerker, #HUSSAPPROVEDFebruary 27, 2015 at 12:03 PM

    I remember that story. Vader was trying to make him "earn" the victory from him, but one shot back by Flair and he suddenly went "OK OK YOU EARNED IT!"

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  24. I'm surprised we've never heard from Hogan being afraid that Flair would shoot on him and hit him from behind with the 12,000 lb NWA title in that Funeral Parlor segment

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  25. Theberzerker, #HUSSAPPROVEDFebruary 27, 2015 at 12:05 PM

    ..................................IF THE SHIELD HADN'T BEEN BROKEN UP AND ROMAN WAS STILL PART OF THE GROUP AND HE WON THE TITLE THERE WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM AT ALL EVERYONE WOULD BE FINE THE WIN WOULD BE LOOKED AT AS GOING TOWARDS THE GROUP THEN THEY COULD SLOWLY BREAK HIM OFF LITTLE BY LITTLE AND EVERYTHING WOULD BE FINE HUSS HUSS HUSS HUSS HUSS HUSS
    There.

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  26. Anybody willing to work Puerto Rico in those days gets my respect. There were situations where they were in genuine fear for their lives.

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  27. Lol -- I read that way too fast. I was thinking "Bundy." Didn't he just go by King Kong Brody in AWA? If he did...yeah Flair better just lay down or run away like Luger.

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  28. Just all of the islands pretty much, even Hawaii could be dangerous because of the lack of security or security that didn't know what the hell was going on. I could see going there as a babyface -- ok money, paid vacation, etc. As a heel? Fuck NO!!! You couldn't pay me enough to even cheer for the heel in that environment.

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  29. Don LaGreca?

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  30. We need a sexy boy toy today to distract Vince from Roman Reign's push like Shawn did with Diesel.

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  31. considering that those were some of the best matches of his career, he wasn't that awful in 1997.

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  32. Vader seemed to test guys like that a lot. I even remember in his match against Shamrock, Ken had to let him know he wasn't having that shit.

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  33. Not to mention title that he got from Easy E, Ice Cube and Dr. Dre. They had it made from their first gold album. Dre had connections to Suge Knight and Hulk was worried they might try to kill him if he didn't job to Flair, but then he came up with the lyrics to Nuthin' But a G Thang and the idea for Death Row Records. Everything was cool after that, but he they never gave him his writing credit. He was also going to be Jimmy Iovine's partner on Beats, but he missed the call and it went to Dr. Dre instead so he's pretty pissed at Dr. Dre.

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  34. Shawn got a surprisingly good performance out of a then-green-as-gooseshit Chris Masters at Unforgiven '05.

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  35. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!February 27, 2015 at 12:22 PM

    I agree with the idea that he had a good match with the Undertaker. My dispute is with the notion that The Undertaker was "young" in 1997. He was an 8-year veteran by then.

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  36. well, Ambrose IS the titty master, right?

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  37. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!February 27, 2015 at 12:27 PM

    Calling HBK overrated is a hip thing to do online for some unknown reason. Maybe his annoying christianity? I don't know what it is, but it's like you said....stupid. He's GOAT top 10 even if you hate him. For me, he's #1 and he's not that on my favorites list.

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  38. Brody, not Bundy. All theoretical - Brody was no mark.

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  39. "Young Undertaker" who is older than Shawn.

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  40. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!February 27, 2015 at 12:31 PM

    What everyone really wants to know....


    Would Ric Flair have to shoot on Roman Reigns? And how quickly would His Meaty Thighness stop him?

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  41. He actually had good matches with Austin and Vader at both PPV's that he defended the World Title.

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  42. And I forgot the crazy match he had with Mankind at Revenge of the Taker which was pretty good too.

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  43. Threadjack:

    Roman Reigns sucks

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  44. Calling Michaels overrated is like assholes who say the same about the Beatles. Its an objectively invalid opinion, and when you say shit like that, my ears/eyes translate it as "don't pay any more attention to this person"

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  45. He was still the best worker in the business in his 40s. That's pretty crazy when you watch his last 1998 matches and he's just in fucking pain the whole time and can barely hide it

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  46. "I Need Your Help Please Mr. Keith"


    Are most of the subject lines of e-mails you receive THIS desperate?

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  47. Youngertaker

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  48. Nah, Flair would rather drop the belt in a hostile city (PR, New Zealand to Harley IIRC) than be a tough guy.


    Arn as an enforcer was a shoot.

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  49. And their heads! THEY ARE SO HARD!!!!!

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  50. i didn't see this.


    #salute

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  51. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 27, 2015 at 12:52 PM

    Yeah absolutely. Is Sid not in the HoF already?

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  52. You know, Wally Carbo, the great wrestling promoter, called me on the phone and said, "Naitch,", said, "Slick Ric, Champ, I'm gonna make the price right."

    Brother, your credentials are unlimited, but you gotta take a long look at yourself before you walk that aisle, cause this right now, is the toughest piece of work in wrestling today.

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  53. I agree that Shawn is overrated but "can't carry guys" is the absolute WORST argument you can make against him.

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  54. Metallica is overrated.

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  55. Sids promo on Hogan at WM 8 is one of my all time favourites. Say what you like about his ring work but the guy was awesome on the mic.

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  56. It's no shock hardened Vietnam vet Dutch Mantell had to go down to heel there.

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  57. The six months of fantasy booking didn't help. Mania plans were known in the summer, instead of accepting it they decided it was rumor and booked their faves into a mania title match. I'm not even sure half of them are fans of the current wwe they just watch it out of habit, spite or because they literally have nothing better to do.

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  58. Haven't a couple of Flair's family members kicked his ass?

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  59. You're complaining about people talk about wrestling on a wrestling message board. OK cool.

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  60. Syco Sid's theme music was great. So was his Sid Justice music. I haven't seen it for some time, but my memory is that at WM8, Sid walks down the aisle and he's talking to himself and the camera in a maniacal way, then just abruptly goes stone faced.

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  61. You're off your medication again. I'd suggest upping the Paxil, halving the coffee and picking up seroquel. If anyone needs it its you.

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  62. Man, his punches sucked, though.

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  63. NWA/WCW always booked heels better anyway. When Sid was a heel In the Million Dollar corporation he was running from Diesel like a pussy. But he was a badass again when he was a face/tweener in 96.

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  64. Lots of stories like that about Vader. Super tough bully until someone actually gave it back to him.

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  65. In short, no, Ric wasn't a "tough guy." Plenty of stories of him backing down and/or being two-faced to avoid confrontations. Enough old-timers have called him a pussy that I tend to believe it.



    Not that it should have any real bearing on anything. Dude performed, and that's what counts.

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  66. Flair asked Nick Bockwinkel if he was ever worried about being jumped by a fan. Nick responded that he was always scanning the crowd and felt he could take care of any dumb, slow drunk fan who jumped him. In his mind he was probably laughing at the thought of Flair trying to fight him.

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  67. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 27, 2015 at 2:00 PM

    Yep. Rick Rude, Lex Luger, Sid Vicious, Vader....easily better heels in WCW than in WWF

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  68. i think harley was the last legit tough guy shooter that was champ

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  69. how do you think brock lesnar would have been taken if he wresled back in the nwa in the 70s-80s.i would have loved to see him shoot on some dumbass fan

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  70. Yawwwwwwwwn

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  71. Yes! This!



    Sid Justice was awesome.


    He had that really just crazy connection with the fans and he re-invented himself in later years to once again have a crazy connection.

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  72. Yeah, when that Nash/Piper fight story came out Flair was pleading with Nash that he had nothing to do with it.

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  73. If Sid showed up today he would have been called Sidney Sane so that probably would have killed him right from the start.

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  74. Throw in weed, a DVR and one remaining friend who's also a diehard and you have the entirety of why I still watch.

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  75. of all the guys to fuck with, shamrock should not be on said list.

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  76. "Only the guys that he stiffed on the bar tabs."

    So... everyone?

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  77. They had Harley Race in his corner when Flair defended in Japan because he couldn't defend himself.

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  78. Night81: Nerd.

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  79. Yes, seroquel would help To sedate you. Very good!

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  80. Booor-ing

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  81. The dude would get over regardless.

    You match Sid's look and charisma with Lesnar's talent, you'd have the biggest box office heel ever. Sid had the look, and nothing else, but by God he took that shit far.

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  82. He went by King Kong in St. Louis, Indy and sometimes Chicago. Anywhere Dick was already the Bruiser, he was King Kong.

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  83. I wish somebody had mentioned this sooner.

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  84. He's an amazing athlete and was a amateur wrestler so I'm sure he could at least beat up local yokels who tried to start shit.

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  85. Plus flair lived the gimmick. The nature boy isn't about to roll around on a bar room floor fighting some 8-5er.

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  86. I did not know that -- I always assumed it was some weird Verne Gagne deal where he insisted on repackaging him, but that actually makes a lot of sense since Dick the Bruiser was such a legend.

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  87. Bet he could beat up Flair though.

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  88. I imagine Reigns (and his Meaty Thighs) would kill Flair.

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  89. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!February 27, 2015 at 3:19 PM

    I tend to agree. He may be a pretty boy, but he's still Samoan.

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  90. Does he have any fight background? He grew up pretty well-off.

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  91. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!February 27, 2015 at 3:37 PM

    Oh, who knows. But according to Gorilla Monsoon, all Samoans have hard heads, so there's that old hat.

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  92. Paul Orndoff fucked him up and made him go AWOL for War Games 95

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  93. Your posts usually are, yes. Also filled with rage. Up your meds dude.

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  94. Not as far as I know. But he's a big, powerful dude who played football and is, as Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!! pointed out, Samoan. I think he crushes Flair, amateur wrestling experience be damned.

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  95. I'd say Vader and Ron Simmons could probably handle themselves, Ronnie Garvin did have hands of stone too...

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  96. I'm sure Flair rolled around on quite a few bar room floors ...

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  97. Flair's training was tough, but I think part of the reason he had the Horsemen was to be bouncer-types for him.


    Would you fuck with Arn?

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  98. I know you're joking, but Reigns (who's being compared to Sid here) has been known to fist-bump fans.

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  99. Was there actually any shoot that didn't involve Vincent Kennedy McMahon? It seems all the guys were either too scared or smart to ever try to shoot on someone.

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  100. Old school bookers would've loved Brock.

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  101. Brody was wild, but he did business. The only wrestler I've ever heard him shoot on was Luger; mostly it was promoters he had problems with.

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  102. Arn and Barry both strike me as pretty tough guys; Blanchard and Flair, not so much.

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  103. And they had Piper go with him to Puerto Rico, for pretty much the same reason.

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  104. MaffewOfBotchamaniaFebruary 27, 2015 at 6:15 PM

    Or Luger.

    :(

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  105. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 27, 2015 at 6:17 PM

    That made is so perfect too. The dynamic was great: Flair & Blanchard will run their mouths knowing they have back-up.

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  106. Brody lugar is the only one I can think of.

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  107. Arn could totally fuck Daniel Tosh up.

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  108. from his first appearance in 1989 Sid got huge live crowd reactions because of his look, and Dan Spivey taught him the Powerbomb... he just stunk in the ring and no one would pay money to watch him wrestling in a second consecutive main event


    if the guy could have just kept his shit together in 1992 after WM8 he would have become the biggest star ever

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  109. Virgil's Gimmick TableFebruary 27, 2015 at 6:27 PM

    OH SHUT UP YOU BALD LITTLE OAF!

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  110. Hogan/Flair wasn't going to draw because the WWF fans wanted to see either Savage of Undertaker with the title

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  111. Rude doesn't get deserved credit for being -THE- draw in 1992 WCW because he's heel but after Flair left the company it was Rude's arrival that kicked it back to life

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  112. Flair's whole schtick of pussying off his opponents should make the answer to this question obvious.

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  113. You could fuck Danielle tosh up.

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  114. Blanchard reminds me of Patrick Bateman kinda. Prissy but actually tough (well if any of that happened).

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  115. Luger running away from Brody was hilarious

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  116. Im just waiting for arm to make an appearance on that show

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  117. thats def true those were tough men

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  118. omg bill watts would have had him be champion especially since hes from south dakota .omg jim ross,s calls would have been great.brock lesnar walking tall for america bah gad.and verne gagne would have tried to shoot on him

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  119. Well Flair is like 147 at this point (or at least he looks it), I would hope old SWAT vest could kick his ass

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  120. Flair is pretty open about not being a fighter, but realistically by the time he got the belt he didn't need to be- maybe in the Wild West days of the NWA, you needed guys who could go for real. But by Flair's time if some local legend decided to go in to business for himself, Flair could just let it go and then A) Captain Shooter is blackballed for life B) the promotion is going to get killed by the NWA and never see the world title again and C) your "new champ" is going to have to prove how tough he is to the whole locker room who just saw their earning potential crippled.
    Flair was money- that is all the protection he needed in the states. Potentially different story outside of the U.S. where the NWA is not as much of s presence

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  121. Jesus, Brock might have been NWA champion for life- World Class wrestler, probably a better striker than 99% of all wrestlers thanks to his MMA training, massively strong and twice the size of guys like Race and the Briscos

    He is everything a promoter at the time would want, Because when he sees the gate for Texas Stadium, he is not going to have any problem playing pin me pay me No matter how coked up Kerry is

    The only thing that keeps him from being champ on and off forever is his dislike of the road and the schedule that goes with being champ

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  122. He would be the perfect guy to feed to Erik Watts

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  123. 'AM I NOT MERCIFUL??!!'

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  124. The Wrecking Crew was plenty of backup.

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