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WWF Wrestling Challenge March 22nd, 1987

March 22, 1987

From the Ohio Center in Columbus, OH

Your hosts are Bobby Heenan and Gorilla Monsoon

In action tonight will be the Hart Foundation, Koko B. Ware, and the Can-Am Connection. Plus, highlights from the battle royal from "Saturday Night's Main Event."




We are show clips from the battle royal that took place at SNME. It lasts for a few minutes.



Hart Foundation w/ Jimmy Hart & Danny Davis vs. Jim Powers & Paul Roma

Here are Powers & Roma are teaming before they officially became the Young Stallions. Also, the feud between Roma and Lombardi was dropped out of nowhere as that has not been mentioned on TV in a while. Roma and Powers are sporting matching trunks though. Hart slams Roma to start then grabs a headlock. Roma catches Bret with a backdrop then a dropkick before he tags out. Powers shoves Hart into the corner but stands around as Bret attacks him from behind. Bret drops him throat-first on the top rope then kicks him out of the ring where Davis lands a few kicks. The Harts use quick tags to isolate Powers before they put him away with the Hart Attack (2:37). After the match the Hart Foundation attack both guys as Davis drops an elbow on Powers after the attack then tosses him to the floor.

Thoughts: Decent action as the Hart Foundation continues to be the most impressive tag team in the WWF. They really had their act down pat in 1987.



Craig DeGeorge is with Roddy Piper. DeGeorge was such a cornball. Anyway, Piper talks about the stars he has faced then mocks Adonis for not being one of them. Not much to this segment.



Johnny K-9 vs. Koko B. Ware

Koko starts the match off on fire as he hits Johnny with a armdrags and a slam. Reed and Slick taunt Koko in an insert promo as Johnny nearly drops Koko while performing a backbreaker. Koko hits a missile dropkick after getting whipped into the corner then gets the win with the Ghostbuster (2:10).

Thoughts: The fans still loved Koko. Poor guy got no push despite that too. He was facing K-9, who is truly one of the lowest forms of life to enter the wrestling business. You can Google all of the crimes he has committed.



Okerlund tries to interview Andre the Giant as Heenan interrupts to tell him that he does the talking for Andre. Heenan then hypes up Andre as the next champion and calls Okerlund a "dummy" for trying to speak to Andre. They are hammering home the point that Heenan is the voice for Andre and that he was somehow brainwashed Andre into aligning with him



A Hacksaw Jim Duggan vignette as he is mopping a floor to show that Americans have not gone soft as he will rid the WWF of Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff. These vignettes were goofy but Duggan was over quickly with the fans.



King Kong Bundy w/ Bobby Heenan vs. Mario Mancini

Johnny V. takes over for Heenan on commentary. As Bundy beats on Mancini, Hillbilly Jim is shown in an insert promo telling Bundy that he better not hurt one of his "little buddies" as Bundy finishes off Mancini with a splash (0:53). After the match, Bundy grabs the mic and warns the midgets that will happen to them if they get in his way as Mancini gets taken out on a stretcher.

Thoughts: The angle of Bundy potentially crushing a midget at least gave the WrestleMania match some sort of storyline as it has been one of the least hyped matches on the card.



Okerlund is with Hulk Hogan who says that WrestleMania III is a big deal unlike his other encounters against Andre. He then asks Gene how he would feel if a kid looked up to Andre and started to "lie, cheat, and steal" as Gene did not appear like he would



Aretha Franklin is with Okerlund, who says that the wrestlers are as big as her "hits." Brief but Franklin did not come across as embarrassed to be here or anything.



Can-Am Connection vs. Terry Gibbs & Iron Mike Sharpe

The match breaks down off of the bat. The Can-Ams clear the ring with a double dropkick as we get an insert promo from Muraco & Orton, who tell the Can-Ams that its power and knowledge, not excitement that wins matches. They go back and forth for a bit until it breaks down again. The Can-Ams reverse a double noggin-knocker and come back with dropkicks then Zenk catches Gibbs with a powerslam and Martel puts him away with a slingshot splash (2:40).

Thoughts: Nice showcase for the Can-Am Connection as they have a lot of momentum heading into WrestleMania III



Replay of "Piper's Pit" from the 3/21/87 edition of "Superstars of Wrestling" where Jack Tunney shows us the custom-made belt that Andre the Giant will wear should he become the World Heavyweight Champion at WrestleMania III.



Snake Pit with guest Hulk Hogan. Roberts first runs down the Honky Tonk Man, saying that he is a bonebreaker and not a tailshaker like Honky. Hogan then talks about how he has to be beaten before Andre can wear his special belt. Roberts points out how the WWF doesn't think he will win as they already made the belt for Andre as Hogan gets where they are coming from as Jake asks him about people questioning his routine of saying his prayers and taking his vitamins as Hogan tells the non-believers can play with Andre's toy (as he holds up the special belt made for Andre) until WrestleMania but after that day they can put it in a box as they will not be needing it any longer.



Hercules w/ Bobby Heenan vs. Jim Young

Johnny V. is back on commentary. Hercules destroys Young to start the match then we get another psychotic promo from Haynes as Hercules makes Young submit to the Full Nelson (0:41).

Thoughts: They have done all they could to hype up the Haynes/Hercules match as these two are ready to fight. And its not been a bad feud at all, in fact it was a good one, but its time for these two to fight after months of feuding.



Okerlund is with Randy Savage. He says that Steamboat is nervous as he is just hyper. Ain't that the truth. Savage says that he will be peaking at the Silverdome and that Steamboat will be unable to take away his Intercontinental Title.



Next week in action will be Tito Santana, King Harley Race, and "Adorable" Adrian Adonis.



Final Thoughts: Not bad but the WrestleMania III card does not need to be hyped anymore. Luckily the show is just eight days after this aired as a few more weeks of build up would have been tiresome. As far as PPV builds go, WrestleMania III might have been the most impressive of all-time.



Here is my schedule for the rest of the week:

Thursday: RF Video Shoot Interview with D'Lo Brown
Friday: WWF Superstars of Wrestling 3/28/87
Sunday: WWF Wrestling Challenge: 3/29/87
Tuesday: WWF WrestleMania III

Comments

  1. LOL @ the NJ governor getting heartily booed.

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  2. Yeah - it was Bret's coming out party - but it was also Hogan's swan song in the WWF sans some house shows. Hogan now claims he wanted to be a heel in the WWF in 1993 and seriously he could have pulled it off - but I just don't buy it. Although seriously, Jimmy Hart is his manager - he cuts a promo more self-centered than usual - one of his KOR promos against Yoko on the beach - wearing black was surreal. I don't believe Hogan wanted to turn heel in 93 as he claimed to Jerico - but the seeds were there. It would have worked for him to do a heel turn in 1993 - but he would have to have put somebody over. And that is something that has always been difficult.

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  3. Ohhhhh yeah, Christine Todd Whitman got a winged eagle belt for doing something that allowed the WWF to come back to NJ, I forget.

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  4. Art "AllAmericanBoy" VandelayFebruary 17, 2015 at 6:26 PM

    "Hey I just met you, and I'm fucking craaaaaazy, drive me to see my best friend, or I'll call you to no end"

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  5. White wrestling boots >>> Any other colour. they need to be all white though, black soles like Pillman & Ziggler have doesn't really work.

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  6. I think with "E" you pretty much summarized Bryan/Reigns.

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  7. She apologized to me and tried to explain the situation and that it wasn't about him when everyone thinks it is and then went on about how she'd be living with him and that it would be an open relationship or some bullshit and I was like, seriously? Do you think I'm stupid? She said she's just not happy here and that she thinks I'm a great guy but I'm just too good for her or something and I was like whatever, I'm not taking you anywhere.

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  8. Same here. As a kid, I watched NWA/WCW on TBS, but I thought of it more as the B leagues compared to WWF. I never bought Flair as having a chance in hell against Hogan and I had no interest in seeing it.

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  9. They said she cancelled some sort of entertainment tax in the state.

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  10. Ah, there it is, yeah.

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  11. True. Maybe Vince feared there was no similarly compelling story for Flair and Hogan?

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  12. I'm actually fine with Hogan losing to Yokozuna. The whole Japanese cameraman fireball I could have done without, but the image of Yoko squashing Hogan "killing Hulkamania" really legitimized him.


    Yoko was always a bit underrated to me. For a guy that size, he could kind of work.

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  13. "I'm sure Hogan had some say in whom he was going to do business with"
    So you don't KNOW that he did. So this is all speculation. Great!

    So let me get this straight: Hogan was supposed to put Warrior over, build a number of credible heels before he left, not beat Savage at Mania 5 (which would've made putting Warrior over at Mania 6 less of a big deal), "let" Perfect win the Rumble (again, Vince does the booking), and "made" Beefcake job to Perfect (there's you speculating that Hogan does the booking again).

    I find it hard to believe that anyone can blame all of this on Hogan when it's Vince calling the shots. If anyone "sabotaged" Warrior, it was Vince by not setting him up to succeed.

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  14. wow cesaro is facing swagger again on main event. how many times have these 2 guys fought in the last year

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  15. "I'd never hit a woman - not even my own mother!"

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  16. To this young mark, newcomer Flair fell somewhere between Dibiase and, say, Bobby Heenan in terms of posing a plausible threat to Hulk. And even when I was caught up in his matches (like the Mania match with Savage), it was more of an X-Pac heat thing; I just did not like the guy on any level.

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  17. Let's see if 1997 Pillman still had the talent to save a 1997 Goldust match

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  18. Escape is awful. Just two people running away from each other... which is why I think Bret/Owen is greatly overrated.

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  19. Pillman's promo about getting in Marlena's dress - lovely.

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  20. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonFebruary 17, 2015 at 6:30 PM

    Let me wish you good evening with....this:

    http://i.imgur.com/JDktoGw.gif

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  21. Art "AllAmericanBoy" VandelayFebruary 17, 2015 at 6:30 PM

    So her apology entailed:


    1. Saying it's not about him.
    2. Completely making it about him.
    3. Reiterating that she has no interest in being with you.


    That's a tremendous apology! She should write Hallmark Cards.


    "Sorry your dad died. A 6 hour car ride to help me get dicked down by my best friend will cheer you up!"

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  22. at least there's a vid on youtube of the first (advertised) flair/hogan match. LOD vs. Ax and Smash only happened one time and nobody taped it

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  23. I don't think there was any rationale...how hard would it have been a few weeks later to have Luger come out for an interview and say he confronted Yokozuna because of the cheating in the title match at KOTR

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  24. There really wasn't a ready made one once Flair won the belt.


    The ready made story was champion vs. champion, but they went in a different direction.


    They probably couldn't have concocted a Hogan/Flair story after Royal Rumble 92 that was better than the Savage/Flair story.

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  25. Also she referred to him as her hubby and that he refers to her as his wifey and I'm like, jesus shut up.

    And I'm wondering if they want to be with each other why are they trying to chump me into doing it instead of him just man up and come get her.

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  26. with the hiac, the regular cell match is not even worth it

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  27. That blurred out belt though. I bought into him right away with that.

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  28. Art "AllAmericanBoy" VandelayFebruary 17, 2015 at 6:31 PM

    No. One of the worst matches in Summerslam history.

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  29. Stupid bad heart. Stupid drugs. Stupid accident. Pillman would've been so great as Attitude wore on.

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  30. I think they did pretty well the best anyone has with that shitty stip, I'd give it no higher than ****

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  31. Any early indications on where Samoa Joe lands? Japan? ROH? Lucha?

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  32. Art "AllAmericanBoy" VandelayFebruary 17, 2015 at 6:33 PM

    Speaking of cage matches, Flair vs. Orton at Taboo Tuesday 2004 is AWESOME. And Flair's 2005 cage match with Hunter is great too.

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  33. Pretty much. I'm a nice guy, but this just reeks of being taken advantage of.

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  34. Meanwhile in Washington, teenage Bryan Danielson is admiring how Marlena's "huge fake cans" reacted to that chase sequence.

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  35. how much does an nxt guy make? is it more or less or equal with what they would make in japan/indies?

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  36. OK - the casting of Mayor Gunderson on Parks and Rec was perfect.

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  37. Bill Murray was just on Parks and Rec. But who cares, because John Cena!

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  38. Top rope crotching spot botch

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  39. Extant1979 - Mr. Cable AccessFebruary 17, 2015 at 6:35 PM

    Probably because he's a loser.

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  40. wwe missed a big opportunity with juan cena. he could have done a mr. america/machines/yellow dog/midnight rider 3-4 month type run

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  41. I've never seen the Orton one but I LOVE the HHH one from 05. Old school bloody NWA style brawl, Great storyline of the old vet Flair vs the current top guy HHH, both one upping each other with violence and dirty tricks, and Flair finally proving he's still the dirtiest player in the game.

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  42. Watching The Godfather.

    I love this movie.

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  43. "Oh yeah, Dakota's very special. I'm sure one day she'll attend a very special school."

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  44. It looks like a televised house show from 1986.

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  45. "Attempted sunset flip that did not work." Yep, this match sucked.

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  46. This match isn't terrible, not the greatest, but not terrible. Sadly it's probably Pillmans best singles match in the WWF.

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  47. I've seen the Ground Zero one more recently & that one sucked wayyyyy more. I think that's skewing my opinion of this one.

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  48. She said she had another friend ready to take her and she had all her bags packed, but he flaked out on her at the last second, which is probably the only reason I got an apology at all, trying to butter me up like I'm some kind of moron that'll let her walk all over me or something.

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  49. This is such a bad night for sports. I'm actually watching regular season hockey. I think I'm the only person in California doing that.

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  50. Agreed. Kevin Nash is the smartest man in wrestling. Why? Because he always did whatever made him the most money. And guess what? He was able to semi-retire from wrestling since his early 40s and has only done things on his terms. He has not had to beg for a job since WCW closed -- just doing short runs and spot appearances in between acting gigs and injuries.

    Tearing quad jokes aside, Nash is now 55, in good health, and continues to do things on his own terms. He's got a SAG card so he's even got insurance. The downside? A bunch of internet smarks think he's selfish and a bad wrestler. Boo hoo. He's not crying in his beer, I can tell you that.

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  51. LOD vs. hog farmers. Maaaaaan.

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  52. * For the chops near the end, and the pop when Marlena nails Pillman

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  53. Rock facing Kane and getting monster pops on the way to his brief face run before Survivor series.

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  54. And a jolly good evening to you, sir!

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  55. ugh 1997 LOD. Pissed off heel Godwinns kind of entertain me for some reason though

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  56. I like that the key to Heel Godwinns is just not wearing shirts under the overalls and wetting down their hair.

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  57. SR3's main villain is a luchador, awesome.

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  58. I'm watching some old Stunning Steve Austin matches. It's kind of a shame that it's been forgotten how awesome that character was. I don't think Austin himself gives it the credit it deserves.

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  59. Man, this may sound fanboy-ish but I honestly think Pillmans top 5 GOAT on the mic

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  60. So apparently Samoa Joe quit TNA.

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  61. A Pillman/Austin feud in 98 would have been AWSOME

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  62. Love the hug at the end, too.

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  63. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonFebruary 17, 2015 at 6:45 PM

    You like Pillman? I never would have guessed.

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  64. If he lost about 100 lbs he could join NXT

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  65. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonFebruary 17, 2015 at 6:46 PM

    Flair shines in cage matches.

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  66. Didn't quit. Contract expired. Mutual separation.

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  67. sometimes they wore rebel flag shirts didn't they?

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  68. I believe Bret's take on this situation. HBK and Bret both fought a face Diesel. Bret fights Diesel and knows how not to be a sympathetic face so the crowd doesn't turn on either guy. When HBK, as a heel, fought Diesel he wrestled as a sympathtic face AND made Diesel's finisher look like shit. Bret believe's Hogan thought he would have gone the HBK route and there would be no way for Hogan to come out looking good in that situation.

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  69. Yeah, might've been a face turn in some areas.

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  70. Hopefully he gets into much better shape.

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  71. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonFebruary 17, 2015 at 6:47 PM

    Dammit.

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  72. He really was the perfect mix of Flair and Hogan... he just needed to get angry to set off the Stone Cold Character. I really hate to think about what he would have accomplished if Owen hadn't dropped him on his head.

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  73. Well, at least that was short and won by a spike piledriver, those are always cool.

    Oh yeah, the million dollar shit. We the crowd were peeeeeeeved.

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  74. Regardless, he got off the Titanic.


    Or whatever really tiny boat is the perfect comparison to the Titanic because that would be giving TNA too much credit.

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  75. Hard to believe his great '94 series with Steamboat was followed up by a 30 second squash by Jim Duggan. Typical WCW.

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  76. Praying for him to drop 40 pds, get that TNA stink off of him, and go to NXT and revive his career.

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  77. Charismatic eNegro Jef VinsonFebruary 17, 2015 at 6:51 PM

    ROH or Wrestle-1 would work. Even NJPW as a member of the Bullet Club.

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  78. He would have probabl had much the same career to be honest, He was already "Stone Cold" by the time he got hurt, and with Bret & Shawn both leaving around the same time, there weren't many workers who could have kept up with him until Angle & the Radicalz came along. He might have stuck around long enough to do a feud with Eddie though.

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  79. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJA_BYb_eFI
    wow, this vid looks a lot worse than I remembered

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  80. So "off the Titanic" is back to working indies? He's 36 and his days are way behind him. He hasn't had a stellar match since 2012.

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  81. Skip to Bulldog/Shamrock. Ad for HBK/Bulldog at One Night Only...*snerk*

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  82. Yeah, WCW 2001 or WWE 20?? would be proper Titanic comparisons.


    ECW 2001 gets some unlucky WWII merchantman caught by a U-boat torpedo as its comparison.


    TNA is closer to that ship from The Perfect Storm.

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  83. I haaate Hawks version of the Rude Awakening

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  84. yea, good callskipping to bulldog/shamrock

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  85. NJPW might be willing to take him, but somebody else's getting sent back to America if that's the case.


    Could RoH afford Joe for more than a couple/few random one-shots that mean little other than a reminder of the "good ole days"?

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  86. We just hated that we bought PPV tickets and got a bunch of shit between matches delaying things. You don't bring that shit up in NJ! As Rob Riggle said in The Hangover, "NOT UP IN HERE!"

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  87. WTF was that drawing? There is way more filler on this show than I remembered.

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  88. Mankind using a sledgehammer in late 98 way before Triple H made it his thing.

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  89. Steiner's pretty big here but not all veiny and streoidal.

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  90. Only good thing is Sunny's top being 0.5 Attitude.

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  91. Undertaker and Kane went from trying to burn each other alive to being best buds with no rhyme or reason to it.

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  92. It drew moderately well for the time. The WWF was in a horrible place in the public mind at this point, and there really was no solution. Wrestling was ice-cold, and as Jim Cornette put it, when you're ice-cold then there's little that even the greatest booking in the world can do to get you out of it.

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  93. "This is all the more remarkable when you consider that - for all their
    self congratulation and back slapping - the WWF / WWE has NEVER created
    any stars. Not really. All of the biggest stars they had caught on with
    the fans first, independent of the hype machine. The WWE then
    capitalised on the groundswell of popular support and a star was born."

    One exception --- the Undertaker. Gave him the gimmick, immediately promoted him as a big deal, protected him well, etc. Then it was up to Mark Calaway from then on and he hit the role out of the park. It's the chicken/egg scenario; Calaway almost surely doesn't become an iconic WWE legend if he just enters the company as 'Mean Mark' or some generic character, yet almost as surely 'the Undertaker' doesn't become a 25-year iconic cash cow for WWE if anyone but Calaway plays the role.

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  94. Still can't believe Luger never beat Yoko at SS. Hell even if Yoko had beat him at least it would've solidified his monster heel status. Either way it was a bad finish.

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  95. UT was essentially a '90s version of Andre the Giant, and the reasons for neither guy holding the title for a real reign at the time were basically the same.

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  96. I think as far as "surreal" goes, '94 trumps it big. It's not even that it's BAD...it's just very, very weird and very, very "off." It's easy to point to "LOL Art Donovan," but there was more to it than even that. I think Vince not being there at all had a huge impact.


    I'm not sure there's another comparable PPV in WWF history. Maybe the closest would be IYH: D-Generation X, which was another occasion where it looked like the WWF was about to collapse entirely.

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  97. Flair never seemed like a legit threat to Hogan back in the day because we were made to believe only other steroid freaks or giants were a threat. If you seen NWA Flair, he was always getting the blood beat out of him and kept the belt because he had the Horsemen save his ass. Shit, Arn Anderson seemed like more of a bad ass than Flair most of the time.

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  98. If you read the results to shows leading up to July 4th, Lugar is literally still doing his mid card heel schtick. Then there is a week off, I think, and then he turns face.

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  99. I just rewatched Hogan/Yoko at KOTR 1993.


    I gotta say, I love it. I like it more now than I did then. They set it up great. Yoko's a monster, Hogan couldn't slam him. Yoko kicked out of the leg drop. The Japanese media contingent is played up all through it. The fireball looks pretty cool. Yoko banzai drops him. All three announcers proclaiming Hulkamania dead. Crying kids.


    It's huge heel heat. The only thing that would have made it better is if they had played up that the photographer purposely sabotaged the match out of loyalty to Yoko. They never really get to that point, they kind of just keep it on the level of a 'freak accident'

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  100. Huh? The put him on a bus made out of American flags and sent him around the country. That's the most inspired thing I've ever heard.

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  101. It is appointed for men to die once, the the judgment.

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  102. I love it too for all the same reasons. Having said that, I do feel a little bad for the guy dressed as Hogan in the front row, it must have really wrecked his evening!







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  103. I remember they did a Shawn Michaels promo after that match before he went against Crush and basically called him a washed up dinosaur. Lol

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  104. Wrong. They did wrestle against each other in a tag match on the fox version of SNME.

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  105. Why bother? He was gone after that and the whole thing was to make an example of him. Nowhere to go in story terms.

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  106. It might be hard to have Luger suddenly turn face and go over Hogan without there being Luger-backlash. If the idea was to launch Luger as the next Hogan, Yokozuna crushing Hogan and Luger avenging him works better. Bret may have been butthurt over Hogan but he had to have figured out it was Vince that only saw him as good enough to carry the belt until the next real star came along.

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  107. I forget - was the ghostbuster a brainbuster or northern lights bomb? Either way I remember being like 'daaaaamn' as a kid

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  108. The crowd would probably have been split for a Hogan-Bret match in 93 anyway.

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  109. I felt the same. I watched because it was wrestling and I wanted to see the good guys win but I really didn't think there was any doubt Hogan or Savage, and eventually Warrior, would beat Flair.

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  110. Well Hogan had lust in his eyes in 1989, so Flair can say he had Liz first.

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  111. I had no idea of Johnny K-9/Bruiser Bedlam's colorful life away from the ring... what a piece of shit.

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  112. Brainbuster. Having no recollection of Koko winning matches, when I read his finishing name, I had no idea what it was, nor why it was called that. Birdbuster makes more sense for him.

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  113. Nash showed ass all the time. He was cocky on the mic and won titles from time to time but he did his job - he played Vince's superhero and he took his ass kickings in WCW. But he won sometimes, so, politics!!!

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  114. Yeah I never really got it either. I figure it was just to cash in on the name.

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  115. Wasn't there an episode of Countdown or something recently where several guys, including Punk, were like "yeah, 'made in the USA' Lex Luger was the phoniest phony that ever phoned, and I even saw through that as a little mark"

    It was pretty funny

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  116. That dude would he his glory as he was in the audience for Hogan's first WCW title win, again in costume.

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  117. Pose and scream, Memphis stall.

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  118. I think people wouldn't be so sour on Nash if it wasn't for the Goldberg horseshit and the Fingerpoke. But then again, that kind of horseshit did kill a promotion, so...

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  119. As a WWF fan who never saw BWA stuff, I go ought Flair was just some old guy. Didn't look tough at all.

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  120. Theberzerker, #HUSSAPPROVEDFebruary 17, 2015 at 9:10 PM

    Yeah, I think it would have worked. I should be booker.


    Booker T.


    Booker T. HUSSman.

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  121. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 17, 2015 at 9:11 PM

    They could have reversed it: run Hogan vs Sid on the house show circuit, with Flair defending against Savage, Piper, etc. Build up Flair vs Hogan for Mania.

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  122. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 17, 2015 at 9:12 PM

    Luger vs Hogan in a true passing of the torch would have been cool for Summerslam

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  123. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 17, 2015 at 9:15 PM

    I feel like Luger should have just won the title at Summerslam. Im just not sure who you build up for a WM10 challenger. Face vs face with Bret I guess? Crush, Borga were not Mania headliner type heels

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  124. Exactly. And although he wasn't over enough to warrant being WWF champion for a year, he was over. But yeah, god forbid if a promoter decides to push a wrestler who is over just because he only knows five moves.

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  125. Pose and Scream may be my favorite.

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  126. Oh yeah. The only fan whom I feel sorrier for was that Shawn Michaels fangirl at Survivor Series '96 who collapses in tears when he loses.

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  127. They never promoted them and then put them on in already bad markets.

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  128. ultimate warrior said the same thing about undertaker and the star making. kevin nash sid john nord van hammer or any tall guy couldnt have pulled that character off.that character should have been a joke or dead in 3-5 years instead taker changed with the times and added moves and is one of the best

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  129. i guess they felt that the two top guys of the nwa/wwf would draw.but vince never mentioned anyone outside wwf and i dont think they let flair get heat on hogan.maybe if he had a crew with him it would have been better

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  130. It was like he was in Sleeping Dogs and was activating his Face meter.

    You were definitely a jobber if you overreacted.

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  131. that maked sense.but if vince asked to put bret over he should have.hogan was basically bulletproof and a job to bret wouldnt really hurt him bret knew how to tell a story and would make hulk look great.however i kinda think that vince wanted hulk to put yoko over and then have yoko put lex over to make lex the man.and why he didnt at ss93 is weird

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  132. vince didnt think hulk could pull off being a heel.which i think how wrong vince was with hulk in the nwo .

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  133. the vanilla midgets thing didnt help him. i wasnt a fan of nash but watching his shoot interviews and him on steve austin podcast made me like him hes very smart and funny.he did help the x division guys in tna but people dont really watch it so it goes unnoticed.

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  134. his first defense was against bret and the match was draw dq so he was dead from the start.then shawn pulled his b.s which nash jokes about.then he faces fucking mabel.i dont think anyone could overcome that.plus him singing christmas songs on raw didnt help.vince is nuts

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  135. x pac called it the screaming clothesline

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  136. I always felt that Luger should have won the title at Summer Slam and then turned heel immediately. Wins the strap and cuts a scathing "Hogan forms NWO-esque" promo on how he used and manipulated the fans and now he has the belt and he doesnt need them anymore. Then you can build to Bret / Luger at WM X.

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  137. hogan called his own shots.not saying he buried warrior.even though at wm6 he knew that the fans would feel bad for him when he put the belt on warrior.but wrestling really needs heels hogan had piper heenan orndorf andre savage.austin had bret shawn HHH rock vince.warrior had dibiase mr perfect and rick rude guys who were already beat by hulk and posed little threat to warrior

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  138. I wonder if he was at BATB '96.

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  139. "Nooooooo!!!!"

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  140. i think the mr perfect rumble thing was wrong perfect could have used that as a springboard to be a top heel.and beefcake should never win.

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  141. The funny thing was, they pushed him as the "better" member of APA for years. He won more falls and did better in matches. So they obviously liked him from day one. But them his team splits up and magically he's a Main Eventer.

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  142. Goldberg had to lose at some point and Nash was a pretty big name himself at the time - he was the #2 face and there had been some Goldberg backlash since his act was getting tired. And the finger point was to give the belt to Hogan and set up Goldberg chasing him while Nash went back to being Hogan's backup and feuding with Rey Mysterio. So those things, while possibly bad decisions, weren't done just to benefit Nash or done by Nash just to be a dick.

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  143. Probably not since Hogan wasn't advertised and hadn't been used in a while to set up the turn. That would've been as great a reaction as the bug-eyed dude at Mania 30 when Brock won though!

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  144. That turn is with Adonis' Trudy turn and One Man Gang's Akeem turn in terms of "where the hell did that come from?"

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  145. That's not a nice thing to say during Black History Month.

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  146. This might have worked well actually. Either put Luger into the Yoko role at KOTR '93 or have Luger win the KOTR tournament, going through a couple of faces cleanly and then beating Bret in slightly screwy fashion to keep Bret strong, have Hogan beat Yoko and convince him to put over Luger-still a heel-at Summerslam '93. Then you build up to Bret-Luger at WMX.


    At any rate, it's pretty clear that turning Luger face in '93 was a mistake, a blunder that ended up slowly killing his whole WWF career.

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  147. That one must have been a million times worse with MSG booing Shawn out of the building despite being the top face at the time.

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  148. Good thing Koko didn't think of going "yes! yes! yes!". Could've ruined Bryan's future.

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  149. Xpac made the mistake of actually doing a move.

    Lex would unleash the Pose and Scream on it's lonesome.

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  150. I think Luger is fine if he wins the the title at SummerSlam and then loses at Survivor Series when a heel Crush costs him the title.

    Then you blow off Crush/Luger at the Rumble and everything can pretty much stay the same.

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  151. Birdbuster sounds like something William Regal would've done back when he was addicted to pills, if you catch my drift.

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  152. Hahaha! Yes! Didn't think of that.
    Another good theme to add to the Theme Song Tournament, btw!

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  153. I saw hogan lose more times during the nwo era than nash

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  154. Luger could have won Rumble '93... Huge debut, but he was more well known and experienced than Yokozuna at the time. But instead... I think Flair or Savage should have kept the title until Wrestlemania IX year, Bret win the Rumble and go over huge at Mania... The Saskatoon house show switch was a nice surprise, but not good booking in the long run.

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  155. Man did I hate Jerry Lawler back then...;)

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  156. Would have been cool, but the Lex Express wasn't really a failure yet... Not until the stupid Summerslam count-out celebration. Turn him heel when/if it bombed or at the Rumble '94 co-winner thing. At the very least he should have really joined the Million Dollar Corporation, much better heel for Diesel to fight in '95 than Mabel.

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  157. One of my favourite moments, all hail Sid, the master and ruler of the world.

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  158. Dunno, Cornette was too 'K-Mart' for Flair... He's not a Limousine ridin', jet flying, kiss stealin' son of a gun... Heenan had enough class for that, like JJ before him. Flair didn't really need anybody, but Perfect was good in the role, and helped Flair cheat for classic heat.

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  159. I think everyone knew Hogan would beat Flair, but it would still have been awesome to see. PWI really favored Flair and almost always put him over Hogan. I was only a kid in Canada with no TBS yet, but I was well aware of who Flair was. Flair gets over immediately with non-fans or part-time fans I've watched him with. I've seen non-fans almost screaming at the TV over Flair, when showing them the glory of Rumble '92.

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  160. Agreed, he was a main event player no matter what people say, because he was in the main events! From late 80s NWA, early WCW... Most of his WWF run (other than the Allied Powers stuff) and back in WCW again he really kick-started Nitro, and was very over fighting the nWo at WCW's peak... He only tailed off at the end, but I was a Totally Buff fan, after all they did end Goldberg's WCW career ;)

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  161. Yah didn't need it, Taker was like the new Andre... The Phenom...

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  162. No idea why they didn't do Luger/Bret or Luger/Diesel at some point.

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  163. Actually I never knew that Luger was already main eventer in WCW or NWA or whatever, because I didn't knew THAT there was something else besides WWF. Ok, here in germany, NWA came on tv before I began watching wrestling and it was on sat which I hadn't until 92.



    So, for me Lex Luger was a midcarder at best.


    If I had known that he was already world champion and everything, then I would have thought that they totally presented him wrong in WWF and he should never have gotten the narcissist gimmick in the first place and he should have gone directly in the main event, going in the rumble, winning and going to wrestlemania as the no1 contender.

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  164. Just be happy that Faarooq didn't join a Happy Dancing Negro stable.

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  165. I was a 14 year old mark at the time of Luger's initial face push and I totally bought him as a main eventer. My friends at the time did too. He had the look and presence of a typical WWF main event babyface as far as I was concerned. He was my outright pick to win Rumble 94. If they'd just gone ahead and switched the belt at Summerslam 93 I'm sure he'd have been fine in the role.

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  166. The fact of the matter was that Vince put the WWF's entire marketing machinery behind Luger and the fan response was tepid. Yeah, he still got pops and everything, but no more than any other reasonably popular babyface on the card. It was hardly the stuff legends are made of.
    Meanwhile, Bret Hart had been completely marginalised and was stuck wrestling a clown and an announcer, yet he was STILL getting the loudest pops on the roster. Eventually, even Vince was forced to admit that Luger just wasn't going to work out.
    I don't think it really would've made much difference either way if Luger ended up with the belt at Summerslam. Ultimately he's not going to be the man to lead the "New Generation" anyway. He just wasn't capturing the public's imagination in the way that was expected. The belt would've been off him again before WMX guaranteed.
    I'm sure some fans did buy into Lex Luger at the time. It wasn't like he was hated or booed out the building or anything. But the point is, not enough people were buying into it, or with sufficient enthusiasm, for it to work.
    The WWF would've been better off using Luger as a heel. Luger vs Bret Hart could've been a credible main event program for them for a while.

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  167. This just made me think that there's a crumpled up piece of note paper with "Reigns Express" crossed out with "Reigns Train" in Vinces waste paper basket.

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  168. Nobody was clamoring for Luger's face turn to begin with...one week he was a narcissist,with getting booed, the next he was flying in fashionably late on a chopper to defend America's honor.

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  169. Did the original plan involve Luger wrestling at all? I thought they brought him in strictly for the WBF.

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  170. I think that was the eventual plan, he just had a no compete clause for a year from WCW so the WBF was a way to sign him and introduce him in the meantime.

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  171. And God forbid Nash accept Vince's offer to make him the biggest star in the world! He should have realized he wasn't good enough and politely declined.

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  172. The nWo as a group rarely lost and most singles matches on Nitro ended in some sort of DQ. He lost matches to the Steiners, he lost to Flair/Piper/Greene, he was at Luger's mercy numerous times, took a bat shot from Sting a powdered out when he was supposed to. Hogan lost selectively to set up rematches he'd win, but yeah, Nash totally did go over the Faces of Fear and the Nasty Boys.

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  173. IMO Luger as the Narcissist should have the heel champion in 1993. Seriously, that was an awesome and underrated gimmick, from the mirrors to the metal forearm they were really putting over him terrorizing people, including knocking Bret Hart out. You can do the entire WM bullshit Bret-Yoko-Hogan and just have Luger win the title from Hulk at either KotR or Summerslam. Then let him go on a monster run and end it at 10 with Bret/Owen then Bret/Luger and maybe have Savage or someone like that wrestler Luger instead of Yoko.


    I don't know, heel Luger when motivated was awesome. Give him Cornette as his mouthpiece.

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  174. Wasn't Flair dealing with vertigo or something like that?

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  175. Right. This is what I don't get about wrestling fans. They bitch when a guy like Hogan, Triple H, Nash, or Reigns is picked by Vince to get the rocket push for not, I don't know, stepping aside and letting another guy take the ball?

    Let's say you work in an office and the boss calls you in. He says he wants to make you the top guy in the company with tons of benefits and a huge raise. Are you telling me that you'd say "You know, there is a person here that is more well-liked than me so you should give him the job instead"? Of course not.

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  176. You have no idea what you're talking about. Vince made all these decisions, not Hogan. Hogan didn't call his own shots. He had some say in it, but he didn't book himself in the WWF.

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  177. Then blame Vince, not Hogan. That's like blaming a player on a sports team for a decision the general manager makes.

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  178. the audience was already turned on Hogan after the crappy WM9 show and then plainly leaving again... the KOTR match with Yoko was literally Hogan's first appearance since WM9 - let alone match


    Hogan only dropped the title expecting to regain it at SummerSlam and wasn't told otherwise until backstage at KOTR after dropping the title


    and the audience never liked Luger because he was put over Perfect at WM9


    all we wanted was the Hart/Perfect rematch damn it!

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  179. I was watching back in the day to, smiling Lex Express was pretty weak

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  180. There were rumors he was going to come out of the gooker egg. Lol

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  181. I can only judge with the benefit of hindsight. As a mark I was always into weird midcarders like 1991 Jimmy Snuka or The Warlord. So in 1994 I was probably too concerned about how Kwang was doing to worry about the main event scene

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  182. What was the deal with Gorilla talking about him imitating the movie "1984"?

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  183. That name appeared in WWF Magazine, but not on TV, actually.

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  184. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 18, 2015 at 10:11 AM

    Totally agree. It would have been ballsy and completely unique for the times, but they had Bret right there to be Top Guy, so it's not like it was risking too much. Luger using the "USA" facade to get the support for a title shot, winning the title, and immediately showing his true colors as an opportunist ratfuck heel (who can incidentally slay a monster clean as a sheet) would have made him exactly the sort of multi-dimensional heel foil for Hart that could have kept things interesting in the WWF

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  185. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 18, 2015 at 10:12 AM

    Yeah, Bret vs. heel Luger for the title would have been good at Mania 9, SummerSlam '93, or even Mania X

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  186. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 18, 2015 at 10:13 AM

    Hell yes. Have Bret keep the title through Mania, Luger can win KOTR to establish himself as a viable heel contender, then do Bret vs. Luger at SummerSlam. Lex can tap to the Sharpshooter and start a face turn, then do the "Made in the USA" crap with Yoko, Borga, et al

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  187. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 18, 2015 at 10:18 AM

    They really could have made Bret's PPV matches more high-profile and build the whole "next era of WWF champion" image. Instead of doing the "retirement" match with Perfect, have Bret beat Flair in a Title vs. Career match at the Rumble. Bret vs. Razor was something different, but Hart needed a legit heel threat, not '93 Ramon. Then do Bret vs. Macho at Mania 9, with Bret retaining. KOTR could have been Hart vs. Lawler, playing off the "king" theme and the Bret vs. old school veterans. Put heel Luger over in the KOTR tourney to be the first "new era" heel contender, for SummerSlam. Yoko could be built up throughout '93 as the unbeatable monster (ending Tatanka's win streak, beating guys like Crush, Savage, etc) then do Bret vs. unbeaten Yoko at WM10

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  188. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 18, 2015 at 10:25 AM

    Bret's title reign should have been like a Backlund/Hogan for the new generation. The working champion who holds the belt for years. It could have worked:


    Survivor Series '92: vs. Michaels, Champ vs. Champ
    Rumble '93: vs. Flair, Title vs. Career
    Mania 9: vs. Savage
    KOTR: vs. Lawler (Luger wins KOTR)
    SummerSlam '93: vs. Luger
    Survivor Series '93: Hart Brothers vs. Hartbreakers (HBK, Diesel, Quebecers)
    Rumble '94: Yoko wins Rumble (still undefeated since '92), Bret & Owen lose to Quebecers
    Mania 10: vs. Yoko
    KOTR '94: vs. Diesel (or Crush?), Owen wins KOTR
    SummerSlam '94: vs. Owen, Cage match
    Survivor Series: Hitmen (Bret, Bulldog, Razor, Kid) vs. BlackHarts (Owen, Anvil, HBK, Diesel)
    Rumble '95: vs. Backlund, Diesel wins Rumble
    Mania 11: vs. Diesel

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  189. Can I ask where you are watching these? Not on the network as far as I know? PWT?

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  190. Hogan didn't want to put over Bret? Brother, you don't know the whole story.

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  191. I have tons and tons of tapes that I have converted to DVD. I did a lot of tape trading in the late 90's/early 00's.

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  192. Perhaps it was because Vince had never at that point ran long with a heel champion. If Luger beats Hogan, it would have had to have been as a heel since quickly turning Luger for a face-face match wouldn't work because Warrior-Hogan was just three years prior and the drama simply wouldn't have been there. It would be a very lackluster start to a Luger dynasty. If Luger were to go over as a heel, by Vince's logic at that point in time, it would be to set up the NEXT guy, the next face of the company. In this case, there was no next guy on the roster that matched Vince's vision. Since Luger was slotted as the next guy, they gave Yoko his win back against Hogan and set him up on a long-term reign in order to slowly build momentum for a Luger triumph that ultimately never came.

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  193. Thanks, just glad I haven't missed something on the Network. I can't wait till the old shows are loaded on, if they ever are.

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  194. I wish they would too but I think they would have to do a lot of editing, especially with the music

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  195. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 18, 2015 at 2:58 PM

    Hogan vs. Yoko should have just been a special attraction for Wrestlemania 9. Standard big fat foreign heel for Hogan to beat and ride off into the sunset. Bret vs. Macho at Mania 9, or even getting bold and have Luger win the Rumble on his debut to do Bret vs. Lex?

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  196. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogFebruary 18, 2015 at 3:01 PM

    It would have been awesome if they could have signed Sting at the same time. Sting, Luger, & the Steiners all brand new for Mania 9 would have been epic, especially if they went all-in on feuds with Sting, Macho, Hogan, et al. They wouldn't have called it "WWF vs. WCW" at that point, but just implying that these guys all came from another company to prove themselves in the "big leagues"

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