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90s Curiosities

Hi Scott,

I took a break from wrestling from 93 until the summer of 97(and was only a kid before that) so there are a few questions I have that I was hoping you or the blog viewers could provide insight on.

1)  Before Starrcade 97, I seem to remember Flair was supposed to face Hennig in a cage but that got changed to DDP vs Hennig shortly before the event.  Was Flair legitimately injured?  I seem to remember him wrestling Jericho shortly after Starrcade leading to Jericho's heel turn and I know he was at Souled Out vs Bret.  Overall, it seems like they tried to make Starrcade as disappointing as possible

He definitely wasn’t injured.  I think it was part of their ongoing plan to kill Flair off, which of course failed roughly 1800 times.  He was “injured” in storyline, so that was the reasoning for switching to DDP at Starrcade.  I will say that the program wasn’t really getting over anyway. 

2)  Sometime before Summerslam 97, I remember hearing on one of the WWF programs, likely Livewire or something minor that Vader was supposed to wrestle Sid.  Any recollection?  Sid was at KOTR 97 but nothing after so it seemed strange.  Sure enough, it was never mentioned at the event and neither man had a different match.

No recollection of that here.  Sid got into a pretty bad car accident after KOTR and that was pretty much it for him for a while, though. 

3)  Late 96 - Was there any hint of Bischoff joining the NWO before he was outed by Piper in-ring in November?  I have a faint memory of him(maybe from Saturday Night, don't think it was on Nitro) being found somewhere outdoors with at least one NWO member beforehand leading to suspicion.  Maybe this was just some wacky dream I had 19 years ago.

There was definitely no hint of it in advance. 

4)  Was the WCW International title thought of as a joke at the time or pretty legit?  It does have lineage from the NWA belt and the titleholders were all very strong (Rude, Sting, Flair)  I don't see it as being any worse than the two belts WWE had for years.

It was thought of as a total joke once Flair got it and it just became “The Big Gold Belt”.  People pretty much considered it on the level of what the secondary titles are now.  The unification between Flair and Sting was really no big deal. 

5)  When Luger took off about 2 months in late 91 - early 92 as champ, did they kayfabe explain why the 30 day rule was not enforced or was it just ignored?  Also, what was the legit reason, guaranteed dates contract?  I didn't think those existed at the time.

Yup, the legit reason was that Luger had a guaranteed dates contract and WCW literally booked him for too many shows.  They also did that with Sting in 96, which is part of the reason why he was sitting around in the rafters for much of the year.  As far as I remember, on TV they basically said he was training for Sting, and the 30 day rule was never really addressed. 

Comments

  1. Regarding 2), Sid v. Vader was definitely scheduled for Summerslam 97 and pulled from the card.

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  2. Sid vs Vader was definitely a thing that almost happened. Here's the graphic:

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-a3kd1IENuoM/UgU_lRen8mI/AAAAAAAACd8/82ielO7lKS0/s320/Sid+v.+Vader.jpg

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  3. Remember Bischoff was "missing" for Bash at the Beach '96--that was something concocted because Eric was tied up in meetings or something, but in hindsight that could have been an inadvertent sign right there.

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  4. Big Johnny is coming off well in some of these recent shoots. Weird.

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  5. I'm going to read the review, but I wanted to highlight this in your summary:
    "I've watched several interviews with talent who have recently left the
    WWE and they all said the same thing: they are getting paid
    significantly less since the roll out of the Network"

    This is what I was concerned about. Even if the Network becomes profitable, there's really no reason to pay the talent that void that was created when they killed off their PPV market. People talk about their salaries, but the PPV payouts were something they could count on. With that not being there (and you're a fool if you think they'll switch that once the Network becomes profitable - they'll shuffle that extra cash into other ventures), that only kills morale further for guys not in the top spot.

    What a terrible place to be in right now.

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  6. Goes to show you how bad the morale is over there now

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  7. Nice. I love seeing alternate reality stuff like that

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  8. I dunno. I think Sid was more intriguing than most of the undercard, anyway. Whether he'd have gone to the midcard, of course, is another story.

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  9. Help me out with the Piper-Bischoff outing, fellas. From what I remember, wasn't Bischoff in the ring delivering the news that he'd gone to Piper's house to get him to sign the match with Hogan, but Piper allegedly wanted no part of the match? And then Piper comes out, asks Bischoff what his house looked like, and proved that Bischoff was lying about having been there?

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  10. He easily could've been used as one of Vince's corporate champions vs. Austin for a month or two. If anything his presence might've delayed Foley's run in the main event scene.

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  11. There were a lot of little things here and there -- Bischoff's delays in contract negotiations, him conveniently booking the roster overseas so the nWo could have the run of the place, the nWo always getting convenient opportunities.


    It may very well have been retroactive, but seeing the similar angle explained in TNA ReAction for Immortal or whatever, I tend to believe these little things were intentional.

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  12. It's also how the wrestler grabs. In the US and Japan wrestlers use their left arms for headlocks, etc.

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  13. Yep. My all-time favorite Nitro segment, actually.

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  14. I'm sure the fact that the wrestlers seem stale and unmotivated on TV has a lot to do with all of this. Hard to "get up" for TV when you hate your place of employment.

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  15. Great work, Bayless! Been looking forward to this recap more than the others, in light of the DeMott situation

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  16. All this from the same company that won't provide health insurance to its wrestlers!

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  17. They also seemed to tease Sid vs Taker again but that was cut short as well.

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  18. MaffewOfBotchamaniaMarch 5, 2015 at 11:37 AM

    ''On Sin Cara and why he failed in the WWE, Alberto said that it was not the language barrier because his character was faceless and did not need to speak English to succeed. He said that Sin Cara never bothered to learn the American style and refused to go to Developmental but the company was so desperate to hire him and catered to his demands.''

    I hope he said something like ''this company let La Resistance wrestle on Raw and they want ME to re-train? Fuck that, I'll be OK.''

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  19. The only hope is if once guys contracts expire they start negotiating to get a cut of the Network the way they used to get pay per views. Of course Vince will probably refuse to give in to that demand for years like he did guaranteed contracts.

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  20. Having read Chris FB's recaps thoroughly, there were definitely subtle hints that Bischoff was an nWo guy early on.

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  21. Sid v Taker happened as a non title match the week before King of the Ring on Raw.

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  22. All that hand shaking has to get disingenuous after a while. Its like when you say "good job" to someone over and over again. After awhile it comes off as fake and condescending.

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  23. I see a role for him as DX'S heavy in 97.

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  24. In the bit where Nash threw Rey into the trailer, they made a big deal out of Rey saying there were 4 guys: Hogan, Hall, Nash, and ??? The only guys with alibis were the guys in the six man tag that was happening at the same time (Sting, Savage, Luger, Flair, Mongo, Benoit.) Did Bischoff not show for the second hour later in the show?

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  25. But they're putting smiles on people's faces! They're working their dream job! Be A Star!

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  26. Well, since the alternative was shower rape...

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  27. No company that I know of provides insurance to contractors. That's a big part of why they get paid so much in any business. They pay their own taxes and buy their own insurance.

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  28. No, I think you're pitiful.

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  29. To be fair, he WAS a huge deal in Mexico.

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  30. Wow, using up someone's contracted dates too early. Stupid, stupid WCW. Good thing WWE has learned a valueable lesson and has never done that.

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  31. Yeah, it was probably some unfair WCW conspiracy to ruin Ric Flair, surely there's nothing about his personality or behaviour that would cause them to stop revolving the world around his 50 year old self.

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  32. I woukd love to see some raw rookie come in and just fucking destroy someone like Taker or JBL in the locker room. I'm really curious what would happen.

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  33. Companies that hire contractors also treat them like contractors. WWE wrestlers are in reality employees with pseudo-contractor status.

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  34. I never said it wasn't cartoonish supervlllainy.

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  35. I'm not a tough guy, but I play one on the internet.

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  36. Sting was in Japan when the fake Sting debuted, which Bishoff knew but he portrayed Sting as having turned nWo anyway.

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  37. CruelConnectionNumber2March 5, 2015 at 12:05 PM

    Sid vs Vader was never booked for SummerSlam 1997. Sid was done in June. I watched every WWF program religiously in '97 and that match graphic is bogus.

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  38. I'd love to know the details of the settlement. I really, really hope ADR was paid a lot to slap a guy.

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  39. Wow. LeBron is having a bad week.

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  40. CruelConnectionNumber2March 5, 2015 at 12:12 PM

    Note the "Autoland" sponsor logo. Stridex was the sponsor of SummerSlam '97.

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  41. Yeah, fairly certain that's not going to happen. And Network #s are currently somewhat ambiguous, so whatever cash they get they don't have to dole out. True, it was similar with PPV, but at least you had some sort of framework (buys) to measure it.

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  42. This. It's one thing if a Freddie Blassie or some other legend walks in, but really who gives a fuck if Bradshaw shows up?

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  43. Yep - good stuff!

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  44. I must be totally alone in thinking that Sid could have been THE guy if he would have not done a few things. And maybe shaved the jewfro.

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  45. The August 5 Nitro featured a random limousine roaming around the arena. Sting and Luger repeatedly tried to get inside, eventually finding a briefcase and nothing more. During that show, Bischoff went completely missing - nobody could report finding him all day. When he was questioned about it by Tony on the 08/12 edition, Bischoff curtly replied “I was taking care of some business, let’s leave it at that.”

    When Randy Savage was made public enemy #1 by the nWo on September 23, the rest of WCW just happened to get booked in Japan, and Bischoff sure couldn't reverse that because dad gum it he'd made a commitment. On that same night, Eric sure seemed to know something, announcing the arrival of a new nWo member based on "information" he'd received. Yuh huh.

    On September 30th, the nWo held a party to induct the Nastys into the fold, and Bischoff oddly had to leave the set early using the flimsy excuse of "I gotta find the Macho Man!" Of course, this wasn't planned, he was just mad that Jerry Sags was talking out of his ass, but it certainly added more intrigue when looking back.

    Nick Patrick continued to be assigned to critical title matches all throughout the late summer and fall, long past the point when it was clear he was an nWo lackey. Why didn't WCW stop it? Of course, Bischoff.

    WCW toppled far too quickly, constantly, when the nWo made terrorist style demands. Changing the stipulations on the day of Fall Brawl, AFTER Team WCW became completely derailed on account of the Sting nonsense? Why would WCW ever accept the terms of giving them their own show and unlimited access to Nitro? They had nothing to gain; the nWo didn't even offer to put up the notion of leaving the company if they lost. It was insanity. Nobody even questioned it. Because ... Bischoff.



    Eric was in the announce booth during the "Sting" turn to the nWo, and instead of telling folks "wait a sec, I'm pretty sure he's in Japan", he replayed the video about 8000 times and was the number one voice in the "OMG STING IS NWO" campaign that led everyone in WCW to completely turn on the guy.


    There were countless other little moments, but to say there was nothing there isn't giving them enough credit. I suspect this truly was one time where they had an end-game, and planned it perfectly.

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  46. Del Rio always came off as likeable guy outside of the ring and a true pro inside it. It's nice to hear from someone who did have leverage and power to speak up more--you hear stories about Del Rio, Orton, Cena, and Punk, but not too many others. He's sharp guy, too. He's got nothing but good things to say about the more polished guys and the hard workers. This was a fun read.

    One question, though: What was the talk about the big argument between HHH and Vince over Ziggler cashing in the MitB briefcase? I don't remember any rumors coming out around the time.

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  47. "Is the road CROOKED or STRAIGHT."

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  48. I was trying to remember what was said about those rooms but I can't remember

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  49. I still find it crazy that the UFC provides insurance for its fighters and WWE doesn't.

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  50. Great review, BB. Really enjoyed it from jump.

    ADR also looks like he did well - he wrestles because it's fun for him, and not because he needs the money. Always glad to see a guy who can leave because he chooses to, not because he has to.

    Also, got a different opinion of Mr. People Power - flying in his fam to spend time with ADR is an A+ move.

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  51. What's wrong with La Resistance? If you don't intuitively understand how Rob Conway from Louisville, Kentucky becomes a French Canadian patriot, I can't help you.

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  52. I'm just wondering if we wasted time debating (several times over) what Dolph is doing right and wrong in order to get out of the IC title vortex...when in reality, he is just on someone's permanent shitlist and will only go so far.

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  53. Considering that he was booked to beat the Authority single-handedly and wasn't pushed up the roster even a week after that......yeah, he'll never break the glass ceiling here.

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  54. Thank Bischoff for starting the whole evil boss that screws the faces trend that never went away after that.

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  55. Where is John Larngettius?

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  56. Shelton BenjaminMarch 5, 2015 at 1:07 PM

    I just ate way too many chocolate covered pretzels

    Don't worry, I didn't get them from that dude hosting a game show in the mall or anything

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  57. Shelton BenjaminMarch 5, 2015 at 1:08 PM

    There was no nutrition info on the bag.

    WOO-HOO

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  58. Shelton BenjaminMarch 5, 2015 at 1:08 PM

    I like the one where the title started with "the one where"

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  59. 27 hour Avenge movie marathon. It's a shame they don't have it set up to do the Thors in the middle of the night so you could get four hours of sleep.

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  60. I remember reading that this spot was supposed to be for Reigns, but because he was injured they chose Dolph instead. The booking makes more sens that way

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  61. Shelton BenjaminMarch 5, 2015 at 1:10 PM

    But Kat Dennings tits!

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  62. Kenneth Branaugh apparently went out of his way to obscure them so they wouldn't be a distraction.

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  63. They really need to find a way to get royalties to wrestlers based on Network views. Like, for every five views of the shit pile HBK/HHH HiaC, Shawn makes a nickel or something.

    Be a nice way to pay the families of the deceased wrestlers too.

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  64. He had a great match yesterday on Lucha Underground and it's good to see him motivated. Since he left WWE i grew to really like the guy as a wrestler and as a person

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  65. Shelton BenjaminMarch 5, 2015 at 1:11 PM

    We demand justice.

    FREE THE DENNINGS TWO

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  66. (Meekly)I liked the Thors


    ...Norton's Hulk is my weak link

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  67. Shelton BenjaminMarch 5, 2015 at 1:13 PM

    Just found this, what a great name

    http://fuckyeahkatdenningsboobs.tumblr.com/

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  68. Shelton BenjaminMarch 5, 2015 at 1:13 PM

    Eric Bana says SMASH

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  69. I did a 24 hour movie marathon once to win free movies for a year. By the middle of the day, I was scuffling.


    This marathon, like the one I did, is night to night, which is so much harder. They should do it 11 am to 11 am, I could do that one

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  70. Set them up so the Thors, Iron Man 2 and Hulk are middle of the night. I like the Thors too but they are so skippable

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  71. Lord Marv CrestoMarch 5, 2015 at 1:15 PM

    I did 7.5 hours in a theater for Nolan's Batman, never again. That's just too long to sit in one place I don't care how nice the chair is.

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  72. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 5, 2015 at 1:16 PM

    Adding Bischoff really ruined the dynamic of the "dangerous invaders taking over by force." Once they had the backing of the on-screen authority figure, it was just a group of heels with power. They operated with impunity until they briefly had Sting as their one weakness. Rather than the more "real" angle they had in the beginning, the Bischoff-in-charge piece just put the nWo's power too far over the top.

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  73. But it did make sense because there would be no way a supposed outside group would be taking over to that extent without someone from inside backing them.

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  74. The other DVD coming out is ten times better: http://youtu.be/o5S5tBuNJdM

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  75. Couldn't WCW have just fired Bishoff though? WCW allowing the nWo to invade could be chalked up to completion and wanting to beat them in the ring.

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  76. If they were going to do the Bishoff thing they should have held off on the reveal. Just have unpopular decisions be made by "WCW" until it's clear someone is working for the nWo.

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  77. Pretty sure Flair was injured. Didn't he fracture his leg during the Hennig/Flair match at WW3? I thought that's why he didn't make the battle royal.

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  78. There was a point where some Turner exec came on Nitro and stripped Bischoff of his power or something like that. I think this was after Souled Out where Eric fired the ref who gave the Steiners the tag belts.

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  79. Yeah I was gonna say, there were a LOT of hints, albeit more subtle than we wrestling fans are typically accustomed to.

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  80. Oh hey hi, I have one. My coworker and I were just talking about this the other day. What's the specifics behind the Austin/Jarrett heat before Jarrett left in 1999? And more germane to this thread: were there plans for them to have a program/PPV match that Austin nixed?

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  81. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 5, 2015 at 1:44 PM

    IIRC, Jarrett made a comment about how he thought "Austin 3:16" was blasphemous and Austin wasn't too thrilled about it.

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  82. Sylvan was TERRIBLE in the ring

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  83. Question about Big Johnny, for you since you watch all the shoots...


    I remember in the 00's it seemed like ppl really didn't like him, and the thought was JR was much better at that job. So I'm having trouble understanding how Triple H has hurt morale. Is it that Laurinitis just hired a lot of bad wrestlers, but treated everyone well; whereas Hunter has a better eye for talent, but is a bad at relating to talent?

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  84. And the big show was prominently involved then and now. 19 yrs later

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  85. How could you forget Harvey Schillers name!?

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  86. Most importantly, it's how a wrestler turns and feeds his body when coming into a move.

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  87. Lol i'm bad with names anyway. I once forgot the name of a chick i was on a first date with.

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  88. I can understand why some didn't like Bischoff being revealed as the man behind the nWo. I do think it would have been better had they used some mysterious benefactor to keep people guessing and to keep the invasion aspect of the nWo alive.

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  89. Oh yeah? I'll kick your butt... at Nintendo. :P

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  90. I don't think we're talking Rob Conway. More like the original duo of Rene Dupree and Sylvain Grenier. Dupree had potential, but was green as turtle shit, and Grenier actually got worse as time went on.

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  91. That man is a wrestling God!

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  92. To add to this, Austin wasn't too thrilled as he felt that Jarrett making that kind of comment (particularly with the Southern crowd) would affect his merchandising sales.

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  93. What made Hall and Nash (and Syxx to an extent) so cool was they had that gangsta rap thug mentality. 2pac and guys like that were really popular at the time hence Waltman being called 6-Pac. They basically acted like a real street gang which was cool for the rebellious mid-late 90s.

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  94. The problem wasn't the nWo popularity or non-popularity it was that WCW looked too weak and the angle ran too long. Hall and Nash were two of the primary reasons the company did so well in the first place. They played their parts incredibly well until they refused to do jobs that the angle required.

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  95. One thing sorely missing is that smokey look in the building from setting off all the pyro. That little bit of fog just prettied up the proceedings.

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  96. James M. FabianoMarch 5, 2015 at 2:25 PM

    Well enough to have enough complainers still in existence here...

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  97. the 70k people who will be at Mania is one difference for starters.

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  98. I wonder where they were going storyline wise with that match?

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  99. There were all kinds of things floating around. One theory was Austin didn't like Jarrett because when Austin first started out, he worked for Jerry Jarrett and was upset with his payoff. Jeff then said something like "it's not going to get bigger by you looking at it" or something and that, supposedly, pissed Austin off. Other things like the "shoot" promo (saying Austin 3:16 was blasphemous, calling him "The Ringmaster") and Jarrett's friendship with Debra have been cited as reasons why Austin didn't like Jarrett. I always thought it was because Austin didn't think Jarrett was on his level and didn't want to give him the rub.

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  100. I anyone religious would have picked up on the blasphemy without Jarrett pointing it out. Even in his first 3:16 promo it came off as pretty blasphemous putting down "Bible thumping" Jake Roberts.

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  101. Sid showed up on a raw in mid july 1997, so he wasnt done in june. And no that match graphic is not bogus. It ran on WWF NY a local new york syndicated show with shotgun matches hyping the local summerslam with the full card and to buy your tickets, well before most matches announced offically on raw. . You wouldnt have seen it if you didnt live in the NY area.

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  102. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 5, 2015 at 2:39 PM

    I was good with the addition of Ted Dibiase as their mysterious financier. It made sense based on Ted's Million Dollar Man gimmick and could have worked just as easily with Dibiase paying off WCW officials. Then you don't have the nWo wielding absolute power. Maybe Bischoff is still a ratfuck, spineless boss taking payoffs from the nWo, but not the leader of the whole thing.

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  103. Did actually start the very beginning of something on TV with Austin/Jarrett that (obviously) ended up quickly going nowhere, or am I imagining that part?

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  104. 1. I don't remember a injury angle outside of WarGames and the heel turn. There may have been a rumor of a rotator cuff injury, but Flair was challenging Bret Hart within a few weeks - so if there was a legit injury between November and December, it healed quickly.

    2. Sid jobs to Owen at KOR - gets in a car accident - but I think he showed up in street clothes after Summer Slam after the car accident in early September - but was gone shortly afterwards and not in any promotion again until the ECW PPV shots.

    3. My first hint was when Bishoff acted all wierd the week before WW3 when he turned heel on the go home show to WW3. Especially when Piper's music hit.

    4. Probably a joke, but since it's the only title regin Rick Rude got and it had some weak NWA ties - I tried to buy it as a legit belt. It wasn't and yet it had some heritage in a backhanded way.

    5. Wasn't a Luger fan or WCW fan at that point.

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  105. Austin 3:16 is blasphemous - but I have never seen evidence Jarrett was ever a Christian and the Karen Angle stuff should prove that. I mean when a hypercrite says something is blasphemous - but then covets his neighbors wife - if I'm lost like Austin then of course I'm not buying into it. I'm pray for both their souls.

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  106. Sadly Jake's gimmick was a gimmick. He was still wasting away on drugs. And I'm hoping he finally got straight for good - but anybody can slip.

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  107. I think the Bischoff turn was trailed, wasn't it? Bischoff refused to condemn Giant's actions or something.

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  108. Yeah and they appointed Dillion as the new boss - but within a month - they buried the angle with a Russo type shoot that Buschoff really still had power.

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  109. NWO worked best when the group were outsiders (of course) who turned up every now and then to (literally) fuck with the programme. When they became comedy heels the gimmick died.

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  110. If Hall and Nash aren't cool, they don't sell shirts.

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  111. Are we reading too much into it. I seriously thought DDP's benefactor would be revealed as Dibise, Buschiff and the nWo - but they never went there.

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  112. Man, between the lung puncturing blockbuster, scissors fight, car accident, and second rope big boot, Sid sure had a wide variety of ways to injure himself.

    I love the symmetry of how his problems started with, and ended with, Scott Steiner.

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  113. Seriously, stop training to go shake Epico's hand?

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  114. I have no doubt that Johnny Ace was a nice guy, it's just that his talent scouting ability was fucking terrible.

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  115. Hall and Nash played for neither WCW, nor the nWo, nor the Wolfpac. They always played for Hall and Nash.

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  116. That's a very valid description of you.

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  117. Waltman was never called 6-Pac.

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  118. Hall called him that. A t-shirt was printed. http://static2.insales.ru/images/products/1/7254/4676694/nWo_SYXX_6_ball_WCW_X-Pac_T-Shirt2.jpg

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  119. Yup. Syxx was his official name. They called him 6-Pac as a nickname

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  120. Great recap Brian, thanks for taking the time to do these!

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  121. Did her name rhyme with a female body part?

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  122. I think Bischoff came into the booth during the angle, after the attack. Though I always took the 4th guy in that situation to be DiBiase, who was the "official" 4th man.

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  123. The rumor I rember reading was that Austin had some issue with Jarrett and Debra's relationship before they got together - which I took to mean they either used to bang of Austin thought they did. Austin would come out and Stun Jarrett which was supposedly going to lead to a pay pew view program but I don't know when it would have happened since Austin's summer was pretty much set.

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  124. I think he stunned him a few times for no explained reason.

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  125. He sounds like a cool person to hang out with outside of the job. It's probably why he was able to stay there for so long. Good luck to you if he's your boss though. Good leaders have to provide guidance and dude looked and sounded like he had trouble constructing complete sentences.

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  126. Nash having the heart attack at Starrcade to get out of jobbing to Giant. The next month once the plan was changed to Nash beating Giant he was fine and won at the Jan. PPV. At least once they brought in someone else as the tag team partner when they needed to drop the belts. When they were scheduled to lose high profile matches both of them, especially Nash, suddenly were injured and made miraculous recoveries once the job was out of the way or no longer mentioned.

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  127. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 5, 2015 at 3:40 PM

    After Hennig turned on the Horsemen, the logical progression seemed to be Curt outsmarting Mongo and Benoit individually (Havoc? WW3?), then getting beaten by the Master at 'Starrcade' 97 to blow the whole thing off. However, Flair didn't need the US title and it seems he was going to be "out injured" anyway. In this case, I think the story calls for Benoit to rise as the last remaining Horseman and be the guy to beat Hennig at Starrcade for the belt. I get that DDP was more popular and had more immediate upside in 1997/98, but why not give DDP a more high-profile win over Hall or Savage at Starrcade, while Benoit-Hennig do the US title program?

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  128. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 5, 2015 at 3:41 PM

    Flair was pretty much getting shoved to the back-burner, but once Bret signed they had one more use for Ric: putting over Hart before getting shit-canned (until August)

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  129. AverageJoeEverymanMarch 5, 2015 at 3:42 PM

    you mean Matador #2

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  130. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 5, 2015 at 3:43 PM

    re: Bischoff: I think they had exactly that "benefactor" in Ted Dibiase. Having the actual head of WCW backing the nWo gave them too much power, rather than being the renegade heel stable.


    re: Nash/Hall. The nWo was not supposed to be a generic heel stable. If they just cut the normal heel promo and act like the Horsemen/Dangerous Alliance then it doesn't feel special or the least bit "real".

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  131. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 5, 2015 at 3:44 PM

    Agreed, on the "WCW looked too weak" part. That is my issue with the Bischoff thing. It made them seem to powerful. They have the actual head of the company backing them, then they are untouchable.

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  132. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 5, 2015 at 3:46 PM

    Jarrett could have won King of the Ring 1999 instead of Billy Gunn. Set up a short program for the Fully Loaded ppv.

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  133. I think he did stun him during the Fully Loaded 1999 after Jarrett won back the IC Title.

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  134. James M. FabianoMarch 5, 2015 at 3:47 PM

    Squirrel in pants? Squeegee?

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  135. They had the chance to undo it and did to an extent when Dillon took over and won the power struggle...but they'd always have Bischoff back in control again. It was stupid -- the storyline should've been that Bischoff allowed them to take control and once they held the belts and so many guys in their faction it should've been enough that WCW was trying to undo that by winning the belts back and defeating their big guns. I don't even have an issue with the nWo making one last power move and Hogan wins the belt back from Sting, but then it needed to end with Goldberg going through them one by one.

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  136. That was because of Doctor Death, though, wasn't it? Not so much Dutch's brilliance.

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  137. The cover needs to be Idiot Tits instead of Cena, but other than that, yeah, BANG ON.

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  138. I could be wrong, but wasn't the undercard really solid around the end of WCW? I seem to recall a lot of the young guys like, say, Shane Helms were great on a weekly basis.

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  139. LOL to the fact that you said everything is fine. That's the joke we used to make about TNA, wasn't it?

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  140. MaffewOfBotchamaniaMarch 5, 2015 at 4:15 PM

    I think ADR says something like ''imagine telling Hulk Hogan he needs to re-train'' so I can certainly see his viewpoint.

    But with the benefit of hindsight...

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  141. I remember Flair selling an angle injury at WW3 and he was carried to the back cause he couldn't put weight on the foot. Or that might have been a Nitro.


    Nonetheless, i think it was an ankle.

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  142. People got paid well under Laurinaitis. When he was ousted and current regime came in, talent started to get paid less and morale went down the toilet.

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  143. I know I joke a lot when they tell guys "learn how to work" but it's b.s. to bust a guy down to the minors for that. If the Lakers trade for Melo are they going to send him to the D-league to learn the triangle? No, they are going to teach him in practice and figure it out during the season. Del Rio is a pro, I'm sure he could've learned "WWE Style" on the fly

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  144. I just re-read some of John Petrie's old recaps, and Henning and Flair had a match on Nitro between World War 3 and Starrcade -- in CHARLOTTE -- and Hennig and the nWo beat Flair down and after the faces made the save, the Steiners carried Flair out and then DDP challenged Flair.


    So that's how the heat went from Hennig/Flair to Hennig/DDP.

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  145. Of all the wrestling I've watched over the last 30 years I've never picked up on that.

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  146. Because WCW? I can't say anything without just repeating your points, DDP vs Hall would make sense since he originally turned on the Outsiders and the Hennig turn was a perfect opportunity to elevate Benoit.

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  147. So lets see, they are stiffing guys on the cash, making them work hurt (making Bryan finish a match after he got knocked out cold WOWZA) and giving them nothing creatively. Yeah this is going to work out really well in the long term.

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  148. These are the same Outsiders who ran from the Giant and were layed out by a Sting every week? Nash's father died young from a heart condition and once he approached that age he became paranoid about it. He missed A TNA pay per view for the same reason long after he cared about wining or losing. I could see either he or Hall blowing off a pay per view because they just didn't feel like being there but they weren't as up tight about jobbing as people make them to be.

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  149. Then it woulda been easier to remember.

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  150. He had it on his tights to.

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  151. They already had the Undertaker with Vince's career on the line story set by then. I'm guessing it would have been a short feud after Austin dropped the title in September but if I recall it was in the summer when the Jarrett angle started.

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  152. I hate that there is even a "WWE style" in the first place. One of the company's problem is that everyone wrestles the same type of match, so if you saw match #1 on the card, you've seen them all.

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  153. They were definitely dropping hints about Bischoff on the shows.

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  154. And I really don't understand the point.

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  155. The Bryan story was crazy.

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  156. This was what I had her. Could've taken money out of Austin's merchandise pocket.

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  157. Waltman was never cool.

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  158. You know, say what you will about all the crap WCW did, but at least they paid their talent well. I remember talking to Scott D'Amore, who worked for them briefly basically as a jobber on Saturday Night and he said it was some of the best pay cheques he ever got.

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  159. But that's one less nickel for Vince!

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  160. I love the Bryan story. It pretty much tells us why fans take to the guy. He's cool and laid back but he is also a bad ass.

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  161. at the same time poor planning on WWE's part.


    When WCW signed Mysterio they also brought in Psycosis and Juvy, etc to make Rey look good.


    WWE brings in Mistico and puts him out there with Jack Swagger who can't wrestle lucha style

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  162. Vince <3's micro-management

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  163. Finally got the Network to let me watch the show. (Last night, it kept playing the "ratings insert" song...and then going right back to the menu, never letting me actually watch the show.)

    It's small sample size (especially when it is a match against Bull Dempsey) but I wasn't impressed with Solomon Crowe. The ending sequence to give the victory to Crowe just didn't work. (Luckily, they're still in developmental, where they'll get to work things out.)

    You watch...the next wrestlers brought up to the main roster will be Mojo Rawley & Solomon Crowe: Team Cro-MoJo...all shaking, all energy, all the time. They don't get hacked...they STAY hacked.

    :(

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  164. I think he just went out of his way to find guys Vince would love on first sight, rather than go to bat for people he believed in like JR would do

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  165. I've been saying this for years. Sin Cara should have been married to Chavo for at least 6 months to bridge the gap between lucha and WWE style. They threw him to the wolves.

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  166. ADR made $3000 a show in CMLL and worked 8-10 shows per week? That's well over a million a year. Is the money that good in Mexico for wrestling??

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  167. Hall definitely wasn't uptight about jobbing. He got in trouble in a couple of cases for calling an audible to do the job, in fact.

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  168. Wasn't his first match with Chavo and it didn't go great?

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  169. I think his first was with Swagger but I may be remembering wrong.

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  170. How so? I was big into WCW at the time and don't remember that

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  171. I totally forgot about that Sid car wreck.

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  172. I think the idea was they were blowing off Hennig turning on DDP at BATB from earlier in the year. He was DDP's mystery partner against Savage & Hall (which made no sense). He was kind of a heel after but not nWo, leading to the Horsemen turn....

    Speaking of, Flair disbanded the Horsemen after the Hennig turn. No idea why, pissed me off as a fan. But that's why there wasn't a follow up with Benoit & Mongo.

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  173. Don't become an architect. Odds are that you'll get sued, and your E&O insurance will be very pricey.

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  174. I like the guys that seem like normal human beings. It's not always the most entertaining read, but it's good to just see someone talk like an adult.

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  175. Yeah, and the results of that were atrocious. It made Ace look like a fool.

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  176. If they want to make him a heel, he should say "Every time the Network buffers, that's me!"

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  177. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 5, 2015 at 8:06 PM

    Yeah, I feel like DDP vs. Hall would be a fun feud and it elevates Page in the process.

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  178. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 5, 2015 at 8:06 PM

    Yeah, I forgot about that Page-Hennig feud.

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  179. After his opener, have him and the Rosebuds take ringside seats. Each show, have him pick four families out of the crowd to come join them at ringside. Say he picks the people who are in the best costume of their favorite wwe superstar. The result: a built in cheering section for steering the crowd and tons of families who show up to the events dressed in costume and ready to have fun.

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  180. The WCW undercard was solid from the start of the Nitro era; took a hit when the Radicalzzzz went to WWE; and indeed was coming around again from late-2000 to the end. Shane Helms, Kid Kash, Jason Jett and AJ Styles were all there at the end, and the cruiser division was kind of being reborn.There were also midcarders like Lance Storm and the Palumbo/O'Haire team who, when not matched up with Bill "Hugh G. Rection" DeMott and the like, could also provide good matches. It's a shame it ended when it did.

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  181. Thanks. I need to get caught up on that apparently. I'm watching all of the WrestleManias in order now, before this year's show. Of course I've seen all of them a bunch of times, but I just love most of the early shows.

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