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Global Force Wrestling to Start Filming TV Shows?

According to Mike Johnson of PWInsider.com, the company is planning on holding TV tapings in Las Vegas. One source told Johnson that the tapings will occur at the beginning of May while another claims that the announcement will be made later this month for the tapings to start in July. When reached for comment, Jeff Jarrett declined to comment on this story and said that he would be happy to speak "once contracts in Vegas are signed."

So it appears that GFW will be a promotion after all.

http://pwinsider.com/article/92168/update-on-jeff-jarretts-gfw.html?p=1

Comments

  1. Is this the same place where they made you work despite being sick as hell

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  2. Biff Kensington Has a PosseMarch 9, 2015 at 12:10 PM

    ....

    http://www.yapfiles.ru/files/1080145/tumblr_mmytfp7oDV1rdutw3o1_400.gif

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  3. Dusty Rhodes in polka dots. Da hell?

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  4. I look forward to 3 years of GFW Champion Jeff Jarrett.

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  5. Maybe 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, or 2014 could've been boom years... but WWE's shitty business practices killed it off before it could get started.

    The company desperately needs to go in a different direction.

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  6. The business is pretty cyclical in it's own way: Every January the Rumble is misbooked, every May Kane gets to main event a PPV, every September people stop giving a fuck until...wheel of ka...it's time to misbook the Rumble again.

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  7. Main event of first show: Sid vs Rick Steiner

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  8. Big Show's Ironclad contractMarch 9, 2015 at 12:31 PM

    If Reigns flops and Cena leaves(for whatever reason) then , knowing Vince , Orton will be who the company is built around.

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  9. Not really a boom period as such but WWE did have some sort of resurgence around 2006 where business was really good.

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  10. The business can be cyclical regardless of the strength of the product - or to be more accurate it can be drastically affected by external events. I think its generally accepted that the collapse in the Texas economy did for WCCW as much as the drugs, suicides and other general crap. There's also a lot of evidence that changes in the wider TV industry can have a huge effect - for example TBS becoming the superstation with national coverage.

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  11. The word was that they will be doing contracts by the show, no long term contracts and bringing in a lot of indy talents on a continually rotating basis.

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  12. Sounds old school.

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  13. AverageJoeEverymanMarch 9, 2015 at 12:42 PM

    He's not calling Jesus "Jebus". Jebus is Jesus' cousin from down south. He's a little . . . different, but we still love him.

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  14. Big Show's Ironclad contractMarch 9, 2015 at 12:43 PM

    Without Cena , instead of mid-card champion CM Punk and main eventer John Cena we get ... mid-card champion CM punk and main eventer Randy Orton.
    Not to mention WM29 main event Randy Orton vs The Rock : THE VIPER STRIKES BACK

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  15. Who is left out there that Jarrett can put himself over for five or six more "world" title reigns?

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  16. As you pointed out, it wasn't a boom period. We're talking Hogan 84-89 boom period, Austin/Rock 98-01 boom period

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  17. AverageJoeEverymanMarch 9, 2015 at 12:46 PM

    I think his point is apt from my point of view. While TMNT has its hardcores (like wrestling) it goes (or has gone) through lengthy periods of little to no exposure with only those hardcores still caring and then explodes again. It has done this more than once so if Wrestling IS cyclical then TMNT would be a good comparison.

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  18. I like this idea a lot. And with them having set up relationships with companies all over the world, they can do a show from Mexico or Japan and have access to some talent a typical indie wouldn't.

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  19. Okay, this is progress. Sorta.

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  20. There's advantages to that, but the disadvantage is that it hampers long-term angle building.

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  21. GFW has once again announced that it will have an announcement!

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  22. It's the return of World Championship Wrestling!

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  23. "What's Global Force Wrestling doing in the Impact Zone, Taz?"

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  24. If we're talking money wise, I think they made more in 2006 than during any other boom. Two sets of tours going at once and plenty of merchandise sellers

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  25. AverageJoeEverymanMarch 9, 2015 at 12:55 PM

    "I do not cayre if the Ooniverse cheerses or booses me."

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  26. I think the main idea of the promotion is to be very much like Japanese promotions, focusing on the competition instead of on soap opera stories.

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  27. We're talking a vastly different industry from 1998 to 2006, let alone 1984.

    During the mid-to-late 1980s they regularly ran 3 house show tours at once, too.

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  28. Pretty sure he has already said he does not plan on wrestling in GFW

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  29. Cena, Orton, hhh, ut, shawn, and batista all seemed pretty interchangeable

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  30. Big Show's Ironclad contractMarch 9, 2015 at 1:01 PM

    "I remember it vividly as being the first time Vince seemed complacent about house numbers and buy rates " .
    Maybe because he just killed off his competition and didn't need to worry about anybody coming along and knocking him off being no. 1 . I think it shows a lot that sinking ratings and poor buy rates are used to explain why guys like Bryan are de-pushed but HHH and Undertaker are given a free pass.

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  31. It's too bad the Showboat isn't around anymore. Lee Marshall could call the action with Greg Gagne for old times' sake.

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  32. I think Lee Marshall's dead.

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  33. It's the Phantom of wrestling promotions.

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  34. A lot of shitty PPV matches?

    As far as the made men in the history of WWE, Cena has one of, if not the best track record when it comes to putting on *** and above matches. When you think about it, Austin and Rock really weren't around that long. Trips had one stellar year. With Bret they always seemed like they were never 100% behind him. HBK had one good year too. And with Hogan there wasn't much to PPV.

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  35. Yeah, if the economy was such a factor, then why hasn't the NFL had any major slumps?

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  36. Very, very dead.

    Well, maybe Rod Trongard is... crap.
    Maybe Marty O'- crap.
    I know Larry Nelson is still around.

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  37. Oops. He died in April last year. Perhaps his ghost can call the action with the ghost of Larry Nelson.

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  38. He owed it to him for that carry job the year before.

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  39. No, he's not either. He died June 23 of last year.

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  40. Perhaps Vince would have found somebody whose on-camera spot calling isn't nearly as loud?

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  41. Yet Verne is still alive crushing vertebrae. It was always telling to me how Vince yelled "I DON'T NEGOTIATE" at Verne in a crowded area.

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  42. I think that's the thing with Cena -- he's the total package. He gets a huge reaction from the crowd, he sells a lot of merchandise, he's got that big, imposing physique that allows non-fans to understand why he's a wrestling star, he's considered classically good looking, so you can put him in a suit and parade him out in front of the media or investors or whoever. And, as you stated, he's well spoken and a true company man. Guys like Bryan and Punk get a great reaction and sell lots of merchandise, but Bryan doesn't fit the mold of classically good looking or imposing. Punk may be well spoken, but he's not a "safe" company man. Orton may not be as over but has "the look," but has a history of getting in trouble. Reigns has the "look" but isn't as over with the crowd and hasn't shown that he can think on his feet verbally.

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  43. Big Show's Ironclad contractMarch 9, 2015 at 1:13 PM

    Guest that belief about HHH being insecure that Austin and Rock were bigger stars than him was correct after all.
    Oh well , at least he was the better worker from Jan2000 - May2001. On that note how much emphasis do you think HHH will put on in-ring work once he takes over (assuming Stephanie doesn't immediately chop his balls off).

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  44. Spot on with Cena, I think that describes him perfectly. I don't mind Cena being "the guy", it's his character which has become so rigid, it made the range of options available really limited (e.g. they tell him to not show frustration/anger too much and to shake it off, where a good story would require the face to feel that way, etc...). If Cena isn't necessarily in the main event story, (but high up on the card), I think that's a great spot for him these days. Step in if things are going off the rail, but be a reliable guy that the kiddies go nuts for near the top of the card, but not HAVE to be in the main story.

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  45. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 9, 2015 at 1:25 PM

    Proof that the money was in the Streak gimmick, not the Undertaker. Dude was pushed strong as anyone for a dozen years, but he and HHH couldnt carry the product without Rock or Austin making the real money. 2002 on, he wasnt a big deal until the Streak became something marketable.

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  46. This sounds like it'll be really cool. Wrestling is starting to hit a boom period and hopefully a company can try and compete with WWE whether it be GFW, ROH, TNA, Lucha Underground, etc. Heck even NXT is more fun to watch than the current WWE product. More competition breeds better wrestling. Maybe if Vince starts getting a bit nervous, we'll get some better writing.

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  47. Once they have their first taping, I'm pretty sure that makes ROH the number 6 wrestling promotion with a presence in America.

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  48. How would you possibly put ROH ahead of tna?

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  49. Hey are an actual promotion maybe? Not just living from TV taping to TV taping...

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  50. So if you have house shows, you're automatically above a company that doesn't?

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  51. TNA is on a multi-year deal with Destination America. They aren't living taping to taping....

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  52. Show me a national TV deal on a major network and I'll be impressed. Jarret started another promotion 13 years ago and was deep in the red within a year.

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  53. They don't have TNA stench on them.

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  54. By February 2001, Austin and Triple H were neck and neck in terms of being a great worker. I think Hunter will want more wrestling and more realistic angels, but StepHHHanie will tell him no. Steph has been involved with storylines since the fall of 2000 and nothing in her tenure has given me hope for the future.

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  55. This is an interesting question to me. Yes, the streak was a big gimmick, but if it was a random mid-carder who happened to have a very long winning streak, it wouldn't have the same gravitas at the Undertaker having a similar streak. Add to the fact that Taker's opponents were much more of a higher profile as the streak got longer, I think that because it was Taker, it did matter more....


    With that being said, it's hard to get a true read because there's not many people left that could have a major streak like that, so by default, it would be HHH, Taker, HBK so if they had a streak, it would also be a huge deal. I guess the only fly in that ointment is if Kane did, but I'd imagine if Kane had a streak like the Undertaker, would it be as big of a deal? Probably not, although I'm not 100% sure.

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  56. How did you have access to a private company's financials?

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  57. That's what Hulk Hogan said when he went to TNA in 2010.

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  58. I think it was reported. Something about someone embezzling.

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  59. If you're both roughly the same level, yeah it does. It means you have a viable revenue stream beyond the TV contract, as well as, you know, actual shows that a fan of the promotion can see. A RoH fan can actual look at a schedule of shows to go to. TNA just has their next TV taping, and maybe an upcoming tour of the UK scheduled.

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  60. In hindsight, Bray Wyatt and Taker could have gone over last year and then The Streak could have been "passed on" at WM31.

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  61. Can you, as a TNA fan, go to a show of theirs right now that isn't a TV raping?

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  62. Please don't edit this... Its accurate as it is.

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  63. It autocorrected it to that! The phone knows, man...

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  64. Can Lucha underground? Njpw?

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  65. All 12 ROH fans are thrilled, I'm sure.

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  66. Well they can have a rumble in the parking lot with all 13 of TNA's fans...

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  67. "Ween" Dean AndrewsMarch 9, 2015 at 2:09 PM

    I recall the TNA initial buyrates were exaggerated by some shady business partner, and then a financier pulled out. Which is what all ultimately led them to Panda.

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  68. That must have been what I was trying to remember, thanks.

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  69. That's an interesting idea, I wonder if WWE would want to continue a "streak" gimmick at Wrestlemania post-Undertaker? It certainly would be a hook. I wonder how many guys actually have winning streaks at Wrestlemania?

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  70. Guys, guys, guys. They are both TERRIBLE.

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  71. Lucha Underground, no; NJPW, I'd assume so if you wanted to fly to Japan.

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  72. Is that true? I just checked the Superbowl ratings and they fell a lot between 1996 and 2001.

    http://www.statista.com/statistics/216526/super-bowl-us-tv-viewership/

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  73. "Ween" Dean AndrewsMarch 9, 2015 at 2:15 PM

    Have to agree just based on the news I see. Sinclair are reportedly very unhappy, most main ROH talent isn't under contract, the one guy of real note (Joe), is already known to have been in talks with WWE...

    If a TNA guy uses your company as a brief pot stop between real jobs, that says it all.

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  74. "Ween" Dean AndrewsMarch 9, 2015 at 2:16 PM

    Just helping a brudda out

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  75. I went to a TV raping once...


    once...

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  76. It's like fighting about whether you'd want to die of Aids or cancer.

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  77. Yeah, true.

    Wait, are they? Because I don't watch either. RoH by choice, TNA because I don't get the channel.

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  78. Was the Yet-tay!!! invovled?

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  79. Nope, but Ken Raper was in the main event.

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  80. ...yes, Verne is still alive. In a home. With Alzheimer's. After having murdered a roommate in that home in a fight by using a wrestling move. (Uncharged because Alzheimer's.)

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  81. No Virgil, no buys.

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  82. Big Show's Ironclad contractMarch 9, 2015 at 2:34 PM

    The shield trio are currently undefeated at WM. But for Ambrose I think it comes to an end this year. Do you think WWE is stupid enough to put Orton over Rollins? Or do the only ones who get to go over Orton at WM in single matches Attitude era stars?

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  83. I actually think they might put Bray over. With Brock leaving, they'll retcon the end of the Streak as 'sure, Lesnar broke the Streak, but Bray was the one who, uh, took Undertaker's soul at Wrestlemania! Yeah, that's the ticket!' Have Wyatt win in impressive fashion, maybe no-selling a tombstone or something, and that might actually do the trick.

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  84. I'd be curious to see those numbers.

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  85. Ambrose, Rollins and Reigns are all 2-0. Cesaro (not counting pre-show results) and AJ Lee are 1-0. That's actually it for active talent --- all the multi-man ladder matches and battle royals really make it hard for modern WWEers to establish a 'streak.'

    Among non-active talent, Rob Van Dam (of all people) has the longest Mania streak at 4-0.

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  86. AverageJoeEverymanMarch 9, 2015 at 2:40 PM

    Doing Road Reports and awful weasel jokes from th great beyond.

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  87. It would make a lot of sense to keep all three Shield guys unbeaten at Mania for at least the next couple of years, to build up some competing "Streak vs. Streak" type of matches for WM33 or 34.

    The only downside to having a new 'Streak' is that it's not like it's a record that can be broken, since obviously nobody is ever coming close to 21-0 ever again.

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  88. For a couple of years, you had Swagger, Miz and Santino all with streaks of wins at a few Manias in a row. After Miz beat Cena, he even mentioned on his next Raw promo that he was now 2-0 at Mania and was gunning after Undertaker's record.

    If Taker was ever hurting physically and needed a 'year off' kind of match (like LAST YEAR), it would've been fun to blow that type of angle off by having UT just squash some loudmouth heel's streak.

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  89. Beleedat.

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  90. Damn, why are our ideas always SO much better than what they ultimately come up with....lol.

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  91. The story has it that Jeff chased Dixie down in a parking lot and begged her to buy TNA. Seriously.

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  92. I know it's not apples to apples in any remote sense, but thinking about "legimate" sports streaks/accomplishments, like the 56 game hitting streak record....seems like no one is ever going to break that, but if someone comes close, it might generate buzz, or Jack Nicklaus' major record. Seemed like the record would be unbreakable...then Tigers rips it up, seems like it's a foregone conclusion, now that Tiger has dropped off like a rock, seems like it's an unbreakable record again.....(but what if Tiger recovers and actually wins another one, you bet the talk would start up again of him breaking the record....)

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  93. You're not alone buddy. I basically fast forward to him and the IC stuff and skip everything else.

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  94. he just needs it get it off the ground and he can start lining up a wall street IPO after Vince blazed the trail to cash in

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  95. Nope, it was a common misprint in many famous versions of the bible that the simpsons used as an obscure joke. Yay! I geot to be one of those know it all douchebag internet guys that people roll their eyes at!

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  96. i like Trongard
    "from the BOS-TON GARden"

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  97. What's Jarr Jeffries doing in the GFW breakfast buffet and keno zone?!

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  98. "I got boxes of Slapnut t-shirts to unload, guys" - Double J

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  99. No matter what happens with GFW, I'm glad they aired Wrestle Kingdom 9 because it finally got me to check out njpw.

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  100. Wow. You just completely no sold dougie. That was awesome!

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  101. Hate to agree with you but ROH is deeply in the toilet. It hasnt been good in years.

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  102. This is the guy ROH is going to be built around in 18 months... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdikESJY6V0

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  103. He's not bad in the ring, seen him live before. But yeah, no.

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  104. He's the master of the German suplex!!!!

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  105. Random Mania factoid: Reigns was born in May of 85, which means he'll be the first person to main event Wrestlemania that's younger than Wrestlemania itself.

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  106. Well, one of the guys the Shield beat at Wrestlemania was Orton.

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  107. to answer the last question about where the business would be without Cena....probably with me having watched Raw a heck of a lot more from 2006 to today. Give or take the Orton factor, Cena drove me away from Raw. I'd take a ton of HHH and UT on Raw over Cena any day (I never even liked his rap gimmick). That's not to say Cena isn't a passable worker, but his character is/was an absolute channel changer for me, as is the booking surrounding that character. His decent (I'm not nearly as high on his workrate as some, he is the embodiment of the WWE style of punch, kick, big move, lay around, sell briefly, forget the body part you are selling to hit next big move, repeat) ringwork does not come close to making up for #cenawinsLOL#

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  108. Perhaps you guys could help out with what years have been ROH:s best, qualitywise, and what events from other years are most must-see. Planning on giving them a proper chance.

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  109. That would mean 5 promotions on tv which isn't bad for fans

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  110. "Lukewarm" MrJustinBMarch 9, 2015 at 4:12 PM

    .... Really? I didn't know that. I'm totally using that in the future.

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  111. The Love-Matic Grampa!March 9, 2015 at 4:27 PM

    That's not a bad theory, but about UFC?

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  112. ThebrazilianpsychoMarch 9, 2015 at 4:35 PM

    The problem with ROH is that Sinclair doesn't have any type of ambition in expanding the product. They're happy with ROH in the state they are.

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  113. I know nothing of indie wrestling but other than the obvious answer(s), why don't these guys work together?

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  114. Ego always gets in the way when it comes to different promotions working together. Everyone's going to want their guy to be on top.

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  115. Well yes, his disease did render him incompetent. That is in a lot of ways worse than just being gone.

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  116. See: Pro Wrestling USA, the NWA/AWA/et al... "response" to WWF's national expansion.


    It ended... poorly.

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  117. Indeed.

    (And I've since learned that he left the home and is staying with family now.)

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  118. Most of them are direct competitor, Roh even pulled their guy from PWG who only run a show per month.

    But working som kind of talent exchange deal could be great, people like the Briscoes in Roh could go to TNA for a certain perdiod of time whil a big name like Samoa Joe who is directionless could go in RoH and work a 6 or 7 month program with their top star. It prevent people from getting stale and create fresh match up for both promotions.

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  119. There's no Vince McMahon to bastardize it?

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  120. I figure hot dog vendors do better when it's warmer out.

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  121. Didn't both his '97 and '02 run last like 6 months? That's kind of long.

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  122. They do and don't . . . . ROH currently works with NJPW yet a lot of there guys also will appear on Evolve, PWG, Chikara and other shows. GFW has deals in place to work with NJPW and AAA, NWA works with NJPW as well.

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  123. I think they could of had another boom in 2011 had they stuck with the Summer of Punk.

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  124. I remember reading in an Observer at the time it was to be longer. Seems crazy to me too considering he was like Sting - better in the chase than as champ.

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  125. I'd pay to see Larry Holmes vs. Butterbean II and Kimbo vs. Shamrock.

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  126. Is Phil Graham still around - the old Philidelphia announcer? He'd be 100 years old.

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  127. Come on - Hogan wrestled twice or maybe three times.

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  128. Is Cal Rudman and Phil Graham still around?

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  129. TheOriginalDonaldMarch 9, 2015 at 8:30 PM

    Pretty soon the Riviera won't be around either despite GLOWing reviews :P

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  130. They should take up residence in the Riviera, the former home of GLOW

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  131. And Hogan ended his career - jobbing again to Sting. I mean Piper never jobbed to Higan outside of Superbrawl and when he wore a mask.

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  132. Undertaker was never the type to carry the business himself as the top star. But he has been very important and effective as a "special attraction" type wrestler. You need to have some guys there who you can place a strong emphasis on besides the top draw types such as Austin, the Rock or Cena (yes him) in order to fully round out the card. Few have been better or enjoyed such longevity in that kind of role as Undertaker. But no, he's not the kind of guy you put the belt on and say: "ok big guy, you're now the face of the company". That wasn't the kind of role he was really suited for.
    HHH was the ultimate case of a "star" who was a total and utter fabrication of the company. He was artificially elevated into the position he occupied rather than because the fans ever really saw him as a top attraction. He was pushed so long and so hard that he did get credibility as a main eventer. But they still needed guys like Austin or the Rock in the picture to draw the fans. Once they left, nobody was going to go: "oh wow let's buy a ticket for the HHH show." He just never had that kind of innate charisma or mass appeal to draw fans as the top guy by himself.

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  133. You would think a year off woukd suffice as a 'year off', no?

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  134. Yep.

    http://www.startribune.com/local/west/40326907.html

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  135. Without Jimmy Snuka, Jake Roberts, Giant Gonzlez, King Kong Bundy, and Poochie to provide the first 5 Streak wins? Pass.

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  136. Big Show's Ironclad contractMarch 9, 2015 at 9:54 PM

    I said single matches. Orton got pined in a six-man match.

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  137. I'll join that minority.

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  138. See the reply to you above thread. =)

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  139. Sorry aboot the formating eh.

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  140. From Da Meltz. This was posted many moons ago on the classics board.



    "I'm a big fan of Bret Hart, but HHH has drawn tons more money than
    Hart. One was the top guy during $80 million years and the other was the
    top guy during $375-425 million years. Hart as a top guy in the main
    event mix was late 1992 through late 1997. HHH was on top at house shows
    in tags by late 1997, in singles with Austin by early 1998, and is
    considered, for better or worse, the No. 1 guy in the business today. He
    had several months off, but his longevity at the top has surpassed
    Hart, as has his number of world title reigns. His big money PPVs that
    he was on top on (1.0 or better, and that standard is actually unfair to
    him because the expanding universe has led to a decline in buy rates,
    and while you can argue that the old buy rates show it was more popular,
    the same decline is evident in boxing as Tyson-Holyfield buy rates are
    way lower than Leonard buy rates or early Tyson buy rates, but nobody in
    boxing will make the argument that anything but Tyson-Holyfield was the
    PPV peak) would be only behind Rock, Austin, Hogan and Flair. For total
    PPV money drawn, he'd be well ahead of Flair. Hart nor Flair never
    headlined a PPV show that came close to the interest level of 2002
    Rumble. And everyone in the company will credit HHH's return to the buy
    rate of that rumble, even though it was years after the peak of the
    company, it still beat out every rumble during the peak years.



    Also, in Hart's day, the house show business was considered priority 1a
    with PPVs. Today, PPV is Priority 1, and draws ridiculously bigger
    numbers now. TV is a much higher priority and the numbers are also
    higher. House show attendance is at the same level today as in Hart's
    best period, but at three times higher ticket prices. And HHH was on top
    in 1999-2001 when no company in history ever came close to the level of
    house e show business, even though house shows weren't even the major
    priority at the time.



    HHH was never the draw Austin or Rock were. But here in San Jose, HHH
    drew the biggest crowd for a house show in the history of Northern
    California when neither Austin nor Rock were on the show (HHH &
    Rikishi vs. Angle & Kane, and it was clear HHH was the star of that
    show). When Hart was on top, there was never a period he could draw more
    than half of what HHH was drawing on his own at his peak, for a regular
    house show.



    The San Jose match was when the company was on fire, but neither Austin
    nor Rock were ever advertised. You can find countless examples of shows
    without Austin nor Rock that drew great with HHH as the top star.



    In many cities, HHH drew well when Austin was hurt and Rock was not
    working every show. I'm willing to bet when they split crews, more often
    than not, the HHH crew outdrew the other crew. Whether it's the name
    Raw or whatever, but everyone in WWE knew the year Raw sucked and
    Smackdown was great, that more often than not in the same cities, Raw
    still outdrew Smackdown, and HHH was the star on Raw at the time.



    I don't like the guy and Hart is my friend, but facts are facts. But it
    is hilarious watching people twist themselves into pretzels for an
    excuse when the guy has had done well."



    Also had this to say, which I though was interesting as well.



    "Why not check out this year, how HHH's quarters did in the ratings, and
    the average attendance on shows he appeared on vs. the Raw shows he was
    not advertised to appear on. I don't know the answer, but the last time
    I did the figuring he was No. 1 in the company, which means the
    business, in both. Hart was never a big ratings guy. HHH's best run in
    Canada blows away Hart's best run in Canada for live gates. "

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  141. Thanks for that.
    Interesting comments, but I still feel that the argument is downplaying the most significant aspect at play here, which is that HHH 's peak period largely coincided with that of Austin and the Rock, two out of the three biggest stars (arguably) in the history of the business. It was Austin and Rock that elevated the WWF to that level of success, not HHH. HHH rode on the coattails of that success.
    Yes, through persistent pushing and the WWF booking HHH as the equal of Austin and the Rock over a period of years, HHH got the rub and was perceived as a top star. And, having received that rub, he was still a top star after Austin and Rock had largely departed from the scene. Yet, once he had the spotlight to himself, HHH was unable to prevent the WWF from entering a down period and a slow but inevitable slide into falling ratings and buy rates.
    Imagine a world in which Rock and Austin did not exist, for a moment. Imagine a world in which HHH is elevated to the top position by himself. What happens? Does the WWF enter a boom period? Or even anything close to it? In my mind, no. Not at all. HHH needed the rub from two of the biggest stars in the history of the business to be perceived as a legitimate main event player. Without Austin and Rock, HHH would've been just another failed attempt to create a big, post-Hogan draw ala' Lex Luger, Diesel and others.
    If the point is simply that HHH became a bigger star than Bret Hart, well there's no argument from me there. Again, rising as he did at a time when professional wrestling was at its peak popularity, whereas Bret Hart rose to prominence during a slump.
    I'd be willing to bet, though, that if Bret Hart had arrived at the same time as HHH did, AND gotten that same rub from Austin and the Rock AND been persistently pushed as THE guy over a period of many years with utter confidence by the company, then he might well have become a bigger star and draw than HHH.
    But that never happened during the Hart era. The company was in a creative slump, struggling to redefine themselves in a post-Hogan wrestling landscape and what's more never fully trusted Hart to carry the ball by himself. In fact, it often felt like the booking was done to sabotage Bret (as has been done with others) whereas HHH was always booked to look like a superman and indomitable force.
    So, very different circumstances and all that, and I can't help but feel that Meltzer is missing a lot of context there.

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  142. Jerry Jarrett covers most of it in his TNA diary e-book.

    Basically they we're budgeting for X amount of buys (I believe it was 50K a week), and had hired a guy called Jay Haussmann to do all the dealings with the PPV companies. Numbers take months to come in, but JH was telling them the estimates were they were hitting their budget rate each week. They later found out they were only averaging about 10-15K buys a week and JH also had the WWE account for one of the major PPV providers. They basically thought Vince was paying this dude off to mis-represent their PPV buys in order to have them spend above their budget and go out of business.

    They moved to the Fairgrounds to save $ and stopped booking guys like Shamrock and Scott Hall, but ended up nearly defaulting on a bunch of loans (Jerry Jarrett owned a big construction business that he would have lost if they defaulted), but was saved by this Health Fund group at the last second. Then it turned out the dude they made the deal with there had been embezzling funds or something and never actually had permission to do the deal, so they lost that and were back to owing the banks a lot of money.

    Dixie had been doing work for TNA with her marketing firm, and they basically had to beg Dixie to convince her Dad to give them the $ to get out of the bad loans and handed over I think it was 85% of the company to do so.

    That's just off the top of my head anyway, I think the ebook isn't that expensive and its a decent enough read for what it is.

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  143. Far out, you'd think Jeff would know not to go into business over Russo. I mean, he doesn't talk to his Dad anymore because of him.

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  144. I hold out hope it'll be good and I guess it makes sense to have it in Vegas since you'll be guaranteed to draw (or even easily paper) a big ground to make it look like a big deal.

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  145. Steve Austin specifically called out HHH for the whole "cyclical nature of the business" thing in a RAW Magazine interview- saying it's an easy thing to say when you're 20 pounds overweight and on top of things. It's just a lazy way to excuse everything bad about the product.

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  146. Well, they didn't.

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  147. Those are structural issues, rather than cyclical ones. Combat sports (boxing, UFC) represent close substitutes to fantasy combat such as professional wrestling. UFC take a piece of the WWE's pie (cue Rock joke), but the cycle determines the size of the pie.

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  148. THERE IS NO OTHER JEBUS BUT I. I SMITE THEE.

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  149. It's like ... there's a reason the crowd starts hot during his matches, then dies horribly during the actual in-ring stuff. His strikes are the worst on the roster, his timing on comebacks is all wrong a lot of the time, and his promos are average. Even his crazy man gimmick comes off forced.

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  150. And for the record, I always liked Ambrose in the Shield, but I've always thought he was meant to be a heel. I find myself cringing during his stuff these days.

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  151. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM

    Several factors with Undertaker...
    - He was booked as something special from his debut on. He rarely lost, no-sold offense, beat the unbeatable monsters, and had no weaknesses. Even without the Streak, he was made into a big deal by virtue of booking.
    - By the time WWE realized the Streak was a thing, they put him against stars (and Mark Henry) and he was treated like a huge deal. Even if Randy Orton was just a rising star in 2005, the point of that feud was that Taker was a "Legend". He beat the younger, rising main event champions (Batista, Edge) before moving on to fellow "legends" (HBK, HHH), at which point his matches were basically promoted as the "real main event" over even TWO world title matches. He took the regular year off, maintaining his mystique and never losing to anyone, then returned each year to face another "icon". I'm still not sure what "Era" the Taker-HHH cell match was supposed to be "ending", but that's the billing it got nonetheless. Then he beats CM Punk at 29. Then he unceremoniously (before, during, and after) loses to Lesnar and the whole thing went out with a whimper instead of a bang.
    - I guess my point is, Undertaker benefited from unprecedented booking dominance long before the Streak, so when the gimmick became an attraction at Wrestlemania, it was made all the stronger. It definitely doesn't work if its a guy like Kane, because Kane spends most of his time being "just a guy" in the eyes of most fans, post-1998. In order for it to matter, Taker had to have 1.) the previous years of dominance and booking protection, 2.) a crop of younger guys the WWE was willing to job to an aging veteran, 3.) the limited schedule (once a year) to make his appearances feel like a big deal instead of fans just saying "it's just Undertaker".

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  152. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 12, 2015 at 9:14 AM

    This is exactly why I don't think Reigns is losing this year. Not to Lesnar, not to a Rollins cash-in. At least not at the Mania show itself. They know 21-0 isn't happening again, but keeping Reigns undefeated at Mania, at least for a while, seems like something they would do

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  153. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 12, 2015 at 9:21 AM

    Agreed, completely. People like to point to 2000-2001 as justification for HHH's status, as if he got himself over by sheer force of will and greatness. Let's not forget that he was pushed into the position he was in because of relationships (Kliq, then marrying Stephanie) and THEN happened to have a great run in 2000-01. It was all-time stuff, but he was not good in 2002-03 and ANYone else would have felt the repurcussions of that. HHH seems like he was always a reliable hand (no drugs/booze, smart guy, etc) but he didn't get where he was even in 97-98 out of sheer charisma, workrate, or popularity. He was the also-ran in D-Generation X v1.0, truly only a big deal because of his association with Shawn. By 98 he came into his own on-screen as DX's leader, but he was not a main event caliber guy yet. Even by '99 when they gave him the all-in push, nothing seemed to really be working all that great until the Stephanie relationship (on-screen and off).

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  154. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogMarch 12, 2015 at 9:26 AM

    Exactly this. Meltzer makes it sound like HHH was capable of increasing business from "$80 million days" to "$375-425 million days". I know he's not literally saying that, but he seems to leave out the fact that WWE business had already Boomed long before HHH got the ball. The business (including WCW) had already reached unprecedented heights while HHH was still mid-carding. He was the benefactor post-Rock/Austin's full-time peak. Not saying he didn't belong on top, but we can't credit HHH with drawing those "$400 million" numbers. Bret Hart wasn't responsible for any such "boom" period either, so I'm certainly not arguing that. I'm just not willing to give HHH the credit for the record business WWF was doing.

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