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Learning one thing to then not really use it...

Scott,

Short & sweet: why are guys in NXT learning how to have great matches & compelling storylines (eg Zayn vs Owens) when they'll then get up to the main roster & not really use them things to their full potential??

Best example = Emma.

Thanks!!


Because Vince apparently doesn't watch his own product, I guess.  

Comments

  1. " And yeah, I think DA is going to wish TNA well on their future endeavors by the summer if I had to guess. "


    Eh, most likely not. Destination America seems pretty happy with TNA. Giving them an extra hour next week and letting them air an older PPV during Memorial Day weekend when they know no one will be watching TV is probably a smart move. No storyline development during that week for the fans that miss it. The problem is that the viewership seems to have peaked. Is this because of TNA or Destination America? I'd say a little bit of both. Destination America in no way was expecting 1 million viewers week-to-week on their little network. I think TNA was expecting a little bit higher of viewership, but maybe less of their fanbase has the channel or cares to follow the product anymore than they anticipated.

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  2. But, if TNA gets cancelled, all of the talent will lose their source of income!

    I mean, if TNA paid its employees to begin with...

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  3. It looks like TNA tried to do same TV deal as the NHL did and failed. The NHL could've been on ESPN but without receiving a single dollar or get a shit deal on NBC Sports but be the main focus of the channel. TNA should've stayed on Spike and taken whatever it gave them, no matter how small the deal was.

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  4. Comparing Sami Zayn and Kevin Owens to Emma is crazy talk.

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  5. I'm sure that Trips fully expects to be running WWE programming within the next few years, and is building the roster and product that HE wants for when that day finally arrives.

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  6. Emma's still in the doghouse because she inadvertently made WWE to look foolish over them firing her for accidentally stealing something.

    Of course, it was WWE who screwed up there, but Emma is going to be punished for it, of course.

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  7. Haven't some people been confidently predicting the imminent demise of TNA since 2002?


    If/when TNA finally goes under in like 2050, there'll be cries of "See! I TOLD you TNA was in trouble!"

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  8. Spike didn't want TNA though. They didn't have the opportunity to stay because it wasn't there.

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  9. When your best example is Emma that doesn't really make for a strong argument. What about Neville, Rollins, Cesaro etc? They've had some blinding performances during their time in WWE and still have plenty to go. Let's stop being so bleak about the future FFS

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  10. The Ascension sucked in NXT and now they suck on the main roster, pretty consistent if yo uask me

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  11. I don't want to beat the "doom and gloom" drum, but DA is dictating the direction of TNA. That's never a good sign.

    Their lack of touring is a lot more concerning than anything else. It means they're completely dependent on TV to keep them afloat, and that's not a great place to be by any stretch.

    I also give them until the summer, but this is a death spiral that's been going on for a long time.

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  12. All i can say is that TNA will fold in the next 50 years, mark my words

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  13. I agree. Never saw anything special in them when they were in nxt.

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  14. Oprah NoodlemantraMay 15, 2015 at 7:55 AM

    In before "EVERYTHING IS FINE."

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  15. What should they be doing with Emma? Surprised she is still employed to be honest.

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  16. One of my favorite running gags when I watch wrestling with my friends is HHH sneezing to get out of NXT meetings with Vince.
    Vince: "Paul, how's NXT doing?"
    HHH: "Achoo-uh! I, uh, gotta go.

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  17. Ya, poor NXT wrestlers in WWE, there's only 10 former NXTers wrestling on Payback this weekend.

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  18. MaffewOfBotchamaniaMay 15, 2015 at 8:16 AM

    It's like learning the Pythagoras Theorem at school to start working at a call centre.

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  19. Crikey Mate Down Under AussieMay 15, 2015 at 8:18 AM

    He could get Prince Charles-ed though...

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  20. wasn't the head writer of NXT sent down there as punishment or something?

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  21. Even for just, say, a million dollars a year, or 500,000, or nothing? I think Spike would've agreed to pay nothing in return for a million viewers a week.

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  22. The storylines are the biggest disconnect, but WWE has actually put on a lot of really nice matches in the last couple years.


    The Divas aren't used, but the ones that are on the roster right now for the most part can't wrestle. If they promote Charlotte, Sasha, Becky and still only give them two minute matches, then yeah that's a waste.

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  23. I don't think TNA could've continued if they aired their show for peanuts or nothing. They have enough problems trying to pay their talent as it is.

    It's not a case of throwing arbitrary numbers out and saying "What if Spike paid this?" Spike didn't want TNA on their network anymore. Period.

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  24. I believe TNA signed a multi-year rights deal.


    I wonder if DA would have to pay them even if they pulled the show.

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  25. How many 10-15 minute matches has Neville already had in the six weeks he's been on the main roster?

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  26. Yeah, TNA is basically week to week financially. They only can afford to stay in business now due to TV revenue. It's really their only income.


    Without that TV deal, they're dead.

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  27. In favor of who?

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  28. ECW and WCW are perfect examples. Once they lost their TV deals, the companies were worth hardly anything.

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  29. WCW's a good parallel, because WCW's house show business was DOA for a couple years before the end. So I doubt it could have survived a week off of TV. And that's where TNA is, because they make no revenue from anything other than their TV deal. Their PPVs provide nothing, they have no house show business, I doubt they sell a shred of merch.

    ECW's weird because they were making more money than ever when they went out of business, but I think they over extended themselves so far that they just spent themselves out of business. Losing the TV deal was a huge blow, but I think Paul E mismanaged the finances pretty badly, too.

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  30. Even if they did pay them, how much would it be? It's basically tossing money in the coffin.

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  31. It's more than that, though - Spike would have to pay for advertising, and it's simpler to pay for reruns of Cops instead of TNA. Not to mention TNA relied on Spike for some of their bigger contracts.

    Really, they've done nothing to reverse course ever since the disastrous Monday Night Wars fiasco. You could argue things weren't going great even before then given how terrible they are at letting people know who they are, but that's shuffling deck chairs at this point.

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  32. Well, part of the problem is that the NXT crowd is very incestuous and different in terms of social outlook than the average Raw crowd.

    Emma's character became awkwardly charming to an audience that watched her go through her transformation from debut to modern day. That sort of connection takes time to form and the more complex or gimmicky a character is, the longer it takes, so when you stick her on Raw and go "here's a dancing lady with a bubble gun," the audience has no fucking idea how they're supposed to react to that, so they don't.

    Same thing is gonna happen to Tyler Breeze. In Full Sail, you watched him transform from effete male model who doesn't want to get hit in the face to guy who can kick your ass if you under estimate him AND pose with your unconscious body for a selfie afterwards. On Raw, it's gonna be "IS THIS GUY A GAY? I THINK HE'S A GAY BRO HEY HEY HEY YOU SUCK YOU FAGGOT."

    I don't know what the fix is for this, but a good step would be to not introduce characters from NXT to Raw and assume every Raw crowd is fully in the loop as to who they are and what they're about.

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  33. "but I think Paul E mismanaged the finances pretty badly, too."
    That's an understatement. But yes, ECW was making money when it folded, but it wasn't making enough to cover the massive debts Heyman already built up. The PPV company really screwed him out royalties, but, on the flip side, Heyman screwed a lot of people out of money too.

    WCW is a better parallel, but as you noted, WCW was at least doing SOME house shows in 2000-01 (usually the Sunday night before Nitro), although I doubt all of them turned a profit. TNA doesn't know how to effectively promote house shows, as evidenced by the sorry attendance at many of them over the years.

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  34. I was with you up until you said that ECW were making more money than ever....

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  35. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!May 15, 2015 at 8:56 AM

    I have to agree. I don't watch TNA, but to say them airing an old PPV during Memorial day weekend is a bad thing makes no sense.


    I don't see how DA would be disappointed with any show getting 300,000 viewers or more. I wouldn't think any of their other shows would get that.


    Now, with that being said....I couldn't care less if TNA folds. The last time I felt like watching Impact, Samoa Joe was the champion, and Kurt Angle was still married to Karen and not quite yet certifiably insane.

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  36. Neville has been doing pretty much the same stuff since the call up.

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  37. Agreed. She isn't hot, and they are never going to let the women work anyway.

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  38. If TNA had built a foundation on using their talent to put on great house shows they would always have something to fall back on. Instead they used their talent to put on a television show that copies all the worst parts of WWE shows and stopped doing house shows all together. And when they did run them, they were 5 or 6 match shows that were very rarely better than any other indy you can go to.

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  39. The thing to remember is that recording rasslin costs a hell of a lot less than pretty much any other programming. In a 2-hour show, there's none of the usual scenery/props stuff, the guys are all locked into contracts with TNA, it's cheap and nasty to record, and the handful of people in the crowd actually pay to watch it! That's what TNT/TBS when they canceled Nitro and Thunder. NOTHING in those timeslots ever got the same ratings ever again, and cost several times more to produce/acquire the rights to.


    TNA is now just a tv show. Every time they try running house shows, they lose money. But as long as they do these block tapings, they'll be fine.

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  40. R.O.C.K. in the U.S.A.May 15, 2015 at 9:01 AM

    The "Oral History of TNA" is going to be fascinating reading when the company eventually goes under.

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  41. WCW didn't get cancelled because of ratings. They got cancelled because they wanted TNT/TBS to be more 'prestige' type stations, and rasslin' didn't fit that image, ratings be damned.

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  42. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!May 15, 2015 at 9:04 AM

    I agree with your assessment of Emma. She had the unfortunate timing of being called up before NXT and the network really took off though.


    It's a little different now than it was to get called up before. People knew Neville when he debuted. People knew Sami. The crowd is starting to watch NXT and a larger group of people watch the network now than when it first came out.


    I think if Kevin Owens or Finn Balor debuted on Raw, they would get a reaction.

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  43. That's what I meant. They thought "rasslin" was for inbred hillbillies, and that their "proper" shows would be all-round better. But Nitro and Thunder got MUCH better ratings than anything else, plus everything else if is far more expensive.

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  44. Seriously, one of the big problems with the writing staff is their impatience to actually tell the story they're trying to tell. They thought they could just shove Emma into a fan favorite comedy role with "She dances and she's friends with Santino! Everybody loves Santino, right?"

    Not to get too pedantic, but two things that work really well in comedy are 1.) Someone who's no good at something but does it anyway, obliviously, and 2.) Someone who's good at something but keeps getting his efforts derailed by surrounding events and personalities. Combine the two, and it's basically every Arrested Development plot ever. So the obvious answer would've been to put Emma with Fandango. Emma with Santino made for two goofy faces who were trying to be goofy, which made them clowns. Emma with Fandango would've made for two goofy heels trying to be serious, which would've made them relatable.

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  45. I am no longer baffled at TNA's continued existence. Like Jake Roberts that company will find a way somehow to survive. I mean look at all it's been through. It'll find a way.

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  46. I wonder if they're resistant to vignettes of debuting wrestlers' NXT careers. If they're bringing them in as the same basic person, those would do a lot to catch the entire audience up to speed.

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  47. Yeah, but the guys you're talking about are guys who have no gimmick beyond "I am who I am." I'm not as concerned for them as I am for the Tyler Breezes, Enzo Amores and Aiden Englishes of NXT.

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  48. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!May 15, 2015 at 9:18 AM

    I see what you're saying. Good point. They may have more difficulty.

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  49. Impact isn't the most watched show on DA anymore after only a few months. I believe one of their own shows did 700k+ a few weeks ago and they have a few more in the 300-500 range where Impact is right now.

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  50. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!May 15, 2015 at 9:20 AM

    With Neville, Vince put a cape on him, gave him a nickname, and made him lose the first name....but he's still essentially NXT Neville. I don't see how showing clips of him in NXT hurts the changes they made when he debuted.

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  51. How is showing TNA programming in a TNA TV spot a bad thing? I'm confused here.

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  52. Crikey Mate Down Under AussieMay 15, 2015 at 9:20 AM

    I meant in regards to him waiting for the Queen to die for a very very long time. Maybe we shouldn't assume Vince will be gone in a few years is all

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  53. Because some people will insult anything TNA does.

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  54. ECW was making more money than ever in 2000. They were running bigger buildings than ever and filling them, plus they now had new streams of revenue like video games and action figures. I remember one ECW wrestler mentioned how they didn't get paid for the September 2000 TV taping in Ontario even though it drew 5,000 people and the crowd spent 5 figures at the merchandise table.

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  55. ECW only ever made a loss. By "5 figures" he was probably including cents.

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  56. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!May 15, 2015 at 9:24 AM

    Alright...well, like I said, I don't watch it, so I wasn't certain. I guess it all depends on how much it costs to produce.

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  57. Ah. Well, yeah, Vince will live forever if he has anything to say about it.

    And I don't doubt for a second that he's put a provision in his will to either have his body frozen for resurrection once the technology is worked out or to have his brain stored in a jar and hooked up to a computer of some sorts in Titan Towers.

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  58. It seems like since almost the beginnings of television the 2 easiest, cheapest ways to get ratings are news and wrestling. But one is seen as classy and the other isn't. And every local station still has a local news show. Most of them have 3 a day. And yet, they shy away from wrestling.

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  59. I meant revenue. Both ECW and WWE did record revenue in 2000, but WWE wasn't spending themselves into a loss like ECW did.
    At the time of the bankruptcy, ECW was $8 million in the hole, so basically, the company lost $8 million from 1992 to 2001.

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  60. That $8 million is the tip of the iceberg. It doesn't include what Gordon lost before Heyman took over, what Heyman's parents owed, and various other amounts ECW owed to numerous other companies. They lost a hell of a lot more than $8 million.

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  61. Right "accidently stole something" it made the company look so bad for firing someone who breaks the law!!!

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  62. That's my thing, too. Yes, TNA is in bad shape right now, but they've found a million ways to survive so far. Will they continue to survive? I don't know, but the continued predictions of their demise are dumb.

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  63. Maybe at some point while the company was running the debt was higher than that, but at the official end in April 2001, the bankruptcy filing listed ECW's total of unpaid debts as $8,881,435.17

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  64. You take that back.

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  65. Except by all accounts she didn't actually steal it, it was an accident.

    But he real issue is that WWE immediately fired her for "stealing" a $8 phone case and has kept guys who get DUIs on the roster or arrested for assault. That's a huge double standard.

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  66. True and WCW lost tons of dough because of accounting gimmicks because PPV revenue was booked as Turner Home Entertainment Income and since they were owned by the same company, they got little broadcast rights money from TBS and TNT

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  67. I'll never forget the time in the late 1980s when NHL spurned ESPN for a big bucks deal with Sports Channel America where a lot of people in the U.S. did not have. At least with NBC Sports, they get coverage on NBC and it was a big strike against John Ziegler as league president that they had no network deal

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  68. First, that's closer to 89 million to 8 million.


    Second, Paul Heyman's parents gave several million dollars over the years to cover debts. I guess you could say that ECW didn't then lose that money, because Heyman's parents were kept bailing him out, but many people would count that as loss.

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  69. Enzo and Cass's act is all catchphrases. They're gonna be hugely over. Remember the New Age Outlaws?

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  70. That is a great point in the difference between Raw and NXT crowds. NXT fans are a lot more knowledgeable about the product. A lot of things will work in NXT that won't work in the big leagues.

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  71. Well, to be fair, for the most part TNA has looked to be in a downward spiral since its inception. The one thing the company is consistently good at is staying alive in the face of seemly certain destruction.

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  72. I don't follow the situation closely, but isn't it still a case of ratings suck but still better than anything else hillbilly america has on air?

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  73. PWInsider is reporting that Impact will probably move to Wednesdays in June since people don't tend to watch TV on Friday nights during the summer.

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  74. Neville is also a guy that can get over with his in-ring work; you don't really need to know his background or motivation to be wowed, he just shows up and does insane stuff.

    Actual characters are more complex and require explanation.

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  75. And how many REALLY GOOD matches has he had in that time?

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  76. Oprah NoodlemantraMay 15, 2015 at 10:24 AM

    That's really where they should have been in the first place.

    This whole thing is just an epic clusterfuck.

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  77. He didn't even give him a nickname so much as he took away his first name. He was always The Man Gravity Forgot.

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  78. Why? Everyone knows that they don't care about the diva's wrestling ability.

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  79. I haven't even thought about Aiden English on the main roster.

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  80. I don't get why networks keep trying to make Friday happen for things. Nobody in the target demos for these shows isn't out on Friday so they just become DVR material. I think I had a half a year of Bellator on my parents DVR at one point that I just ended up deleting when I came over.

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  81. He could be the new laptop GM!

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  82. Where the hell have The Vaudevillains even been?

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  83. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!May 15, 2015 at 10:28 AM

    Yes, but they have 5 hrs to kill every week. It's not that difficult putting a video package together and showing what the man can do. Character or not.

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  84. ABC had it right in the 80s/90s -- the only thing that works on Friday night is family-friendly television since only kids and parents with kids are watching TV that night. TGIF!

    Other than that, live sports works. TNA doesn't count as live sports.

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  85. WWE was trying the TGIF thing with Smackdown since they wanted to target families and specifically lower income with less disposable money to go out on Friday. They didn't actually make the content meaningfully different from Raw or cater to families and just made it "Raw with a blue color scheme"

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  86. Taping shows well in advance is more cost effective for TNA, but Destination America is paying them an amount reportedly well above what they pay for their other programming. It's a proven formula for failure in wrestling as taped shows usually draw lower ratings, while their network is looking for ratings growth. It is literally what got them cancelled by their previous network.

    TNA needed to 1) deliver strong TV product which garnered solid word of mouth, 2) to rebuild their PPV and house show business and any additional revenue streams which would give them more money to pay talent & invest in production values, and most importantly 3) a new supportive network that would be patient and not interfere in that process. People can debate how well TNA has done 1 & 2, but 3 seems to be spelling doom for the company.

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  87. There are likely points where the contact can be reevaluated at 6 months, or a year. There may also be performance levels indicated. More money for TNA if they get above a certain average # of viewers, less if they go below, termination of deal if goals aren't met, etc. The deal being multi-year doesn't necessarily mean much, and could be as bad as good had TNA been a huge hit and there were no incentives in the deal to reward them.

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  88. The whole WCW/Turner thing really is bizarre. The big contracts (Hogan, Nash, Goldberg, etc) were with Turner, while Lodi and Lash Laroux had WCW contracts. Turner got the PPV money, but WCW paid for the production of the shows. But since Turner owned WCW, it seems like it is all coming out of the same checkbook. I definitely don't know enough about business on a scale like that to make ant sense at all out of it.

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  89. Next TNA Major Announcement: moving to the Hallmark Channel, will air Impact at 3am Sunday, Ed Leslie hired to run creative, and interviews will be done in Mike Tenay's broom closet as a cost-cutting measure.

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  90. Spike is doing an overhaul of their programming, trying to alter their demographic. Their relationship had soured with TNA so there were no serious negotiations, but had there been TNA probably would have been offered peanuts for a late night weekend timeslot.

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  91. I've been making the same points for months, but it's also up to the Raw writing staff to actually do their jobs and establish these characters beyond a couple of traits. Yes, we know Breeze's evolution from goofy model to legit wrestler, and Raw audiences missed that part of the story. But if they thrown him on Raw and JBL is all like HAHA MAGGLE HE TAKIN SELFIES WITH BRUISER BRODY BOOTS, there's no real character development. And he won't get over.

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  92. I think the next move is Angle vs MVP as the opening act for the Pumpkins/Marilyn Manson tour.

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  93. Yeah, they're probably the most charismatic tag team I've seen since Edge and Christian. I think they could have a good run as heels with Enzo shooting off his mouth then hiding behind Cass and then as faces with Enzo putting heat on the heels by taking a beating until he can make the tag to the big man.
    Nevertheless, I'm totally ready for Vince to split them up and both guys being out of the company within a year.

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  94. I used to watch the Whalers on Sports Channel. Brass Bonanza for life!

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  95. They'd still have more viewers late night than they do on DA. And if the TV deal stinks, then you cut all the expensive talent and go Indy. That's what I would've done. What's the point of having higher priced guys (Hardys, Angle) when no one can see them.

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  96. Smackdown has always been Raw Jr., even when it was on network TV and therefore had the opportunity to draw far more viewers than Raw. Some things will never change.

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  97. Re: the announcement Dixie made to her people the other day about not believing the ratings being reported online, I think her hole card is the whole DVR-viewers-over-the-weekend thing. I also think that's a weak hole card because it doesn't seem have emerged as whole lot of additional eyes on their product.

    The simple reality is TNA has not been a runaway success on Destination America. If it were we'd know about it. Instead we get assurances from Dixie, and obligatory press releases from the network touting the most minor of accomplishments.

    Yes, people have predicted the end of TNA for years, but always because they've underestimated the Carter family's willingness to dump money into it, and the complacency of their long-tine network home. Well they're on a different network now, and we're already seeing problems less than 6 months into their relationship. TNA really needs to figure out a strategy to not only satisfy their existing viewers, but draw in new ones, and make sure they're on the same page as their network home. If they don't then this may finally be TNA's last summer.

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  98. Hmm. Now I'm no TNA apologist (!) but this kinda seems more like TNA wanting to stretch out the current set of tapings more than DA not supporting them...

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  99. Yeah he's in the conversation of best workers going I'd say.

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  100. But see you're thinking like a wrestling promoter. TNA is run by people who want to be TV stars and think they're one hot angle away from making a hundred million dollars. That's always been the problem.

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  101. If TNA would just go under already, I wouldn't mind their library being bought for pennies by WWE and be on the Network. Of course, if WWE doesn't think anyone watches their own stuff on the Network, there's no hope in hell they're uploading the Impacts from Fox Sports Network.

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  102. That's a very good point. One of the worst things to happen to mainstream wrestling is the idea that smokey armories and bingo halls are beneath them. A small building packed with fans that are into it is so much better than 800 people in a 2,500 seat building.

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  103. But I really want to see that midget masturbating in a garbage can!

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  104. WHAT THE HELL IS NXT, PAL?!

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  105. More like two parties seemingly not on the same page, and in today's world with social media and instant access to information, any problems in such a relationship become magnified. This whole 3 hour slot screw-up--whatever the real story is--probably isn't as bad as it seems, but is also a legit sign that the company & network aren't firing on all cylinders together. Taken with all the other whispers we keep hearing, the recent payroll issues, where the ratings seem to be... saying it doesn't look good is being charitable. There are so many parallels to last year, and that year ended with TNA being canceled. Not good.

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  106. It's not even a hole card because advertisers don't care Jack shit about DVR ratings so it has no impact on Impact other than "we actually had 200,000 people instead of 100,000 viewers"

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  107. Nobody's questioning that ECW lost money. It wouldn't have folded if it was in the black. I was just pointing out what was the loss was at the time it folded. It's never been reported how much debt the company had in, say, 1997. It may have just gotten kept getting worse over time or maybe a dent was put into it by the revenue increases.
    I can't remember who said this, but I recall a former ECW wrestler pointing out how paychecks for shows in 1996 in front of 500 people would clear just fine, but checks for shows in 2000 in front of 4,000 people would bounce.

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  108. I doubt WWE will buy their library. Nobody is watching the archival stuff they do have and their home video business is in the toilet. It'd probably have to be such an insanely small number to buy the footage that someone who wants to make cheapie "Best of" sets for name wrestlers like Kurt Angle, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe or a few other TNA luminaries would be best off with it.

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  109. It's uh, the new Acura I bought.

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  110. I don't know how much that would matter. "Friday is a death slot" was the whole point of moving Smackdown to Thursday, but on a good week, the increase in viewers is marginal and on a bad week, it sinks a bit below the Friday numbers.

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  111. The minute Vince sees Big Cass, Enzo is on the breadline.

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  112. It's just been announced that Impact is moving to Wednesday nights. Seems like a positive step.

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  113. The thought of Tyler Breeze being compared with King Kong Brody is hilarious. That would be a wacky team I'd watch.

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  114. Yeah, I remember two guys who found tremendous success as a tag team and carved out decent careers for themselves as singles wrestlers as well.

    Enzo and.Cass are not the NAO.

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  115. Quite a few. I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting much from Neville on the main roster. He was way down the list of guys I had high hopes for, and the encouraging thing is I still expect more, just as quick, from Finn/Sami/Owens when they come up.

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  116. I could see this being the problem with Bayley. She's built up a ton of equity with the NXT fan base, and at some of the house shows I've been to, she's the most popular performer and probably sells the most merch too. But, if you throw her on Raw with the inflatable things and a hugging gimmick, it will die 1,000 deaths.


    I'm not sure what the answer is, because you really can't start back at one with these performers. Not sure they can catch on organically again. Maybe vignettes is the way to go, tell the story that way, and it gives it a better chance of continuing on the main roster?

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  117. "Yep Mode" Abeyance Brown ©May 15, 2015 at 12:13 PM

    That's what I think is going on.

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  118. The Outlaws were awful in the ring even when they were white hot. Both went nowhere as singles when the team broke up.

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  119. No, I get it. Wrestling is trash and 1 million hillbilly viewers is worse than 100,000 regular viewers. Even still, Spike is dumb and will never find that million dollar idea.

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  120. Because Emma is female?

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  121. I could see WWE buying the library just to get footage of the WWE guys who either came from TNA or ended up there after their WWE runs were over. One day, they are obviously going to release a Kurt Angle set, for example, and it would be neat to include some of his better TNA stuff to round out the documentary.

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  122. I think you could make the argument that Smackdown was on par with RAW from its inception in 1999 up until 2004. Once Brock left and JBL took over as the top heel, Smackdown was done as a serious contender to the A show. But in that time span, you had many memorable angles on Smackdown, the McMahons would always be involved, Brock Lesnar the "top guy" at that time called Smackdown home. It just fell apart after the first Draft Lottery.

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  123. We actually saw this to a very small extent at the peak of the brand extension. There legitimately did seem to be people who watched one show but not the other, so when they switched brands they began to struggle. There's no better example, perhaps, than John Cena. The guy was the most popular guy in the company while on Smackdown, likely due to the fact that people saw the way his character developed. Then he jumped to Raw and within months he was getting mixed reactions. Same deal here, but exemplified. Some routines work on an audience that has watched from the beginning. Throwing the end result into an audience that isn't entirely familiar with that character doesn't always work.

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  124. This is an excellent point. I stand firm in my belief that a gigantic reason why Ascension failed was because JBL absolutely buried them instead of treating them like a legitimate threat.

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  125. Oprah NoodlemantraMay 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM

    "Edge! You're back... and you've GROWN pally!"

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  126. You seem to be confusing Emma with Tamina, sir.

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  127. No, Sami and Owens are two of the better wrestlers in the sport today. Emma stinks.

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  128. Billy Gunn was a KOTR winner, a multi-reign Hardcore champion, an IC champion and won the tag titles a few more times.

    Road Dogg was a constantly pushed singles wrestler with one IC and Hardcore reign each to his name.

    But, yeah, no, the team broke up and went nowhere. Both guys pretty much disappeared.

    Oh, Billy's finisher was the Fameasser and Dogg's was the pumphandle slam. Quick, what's Enzo's?

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  129. Yes, they kept shoving Billy down our throats, and he won KOTR and got titles. He still never got over as a singles wrestler. Of course being called Mr. Ass and having an intro theme that sang "I'm an ass man" would have been death for anyone.

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  130. If guys get called up and are treated like stars: they get over.
    Ex's: The Wyatt Family, The Shield, Rusev.
    If they get called up and are buried on commentary and made to look like losers: they do not get over.
    Ex's: Bo Dallas, The Ascension, Adam Rose, Emma.

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  131. I wondered that too. They're supposed to learn how to work "TV" and I thought that meant 8 minute matches, but after seeing something with Finn Balor I think it's more about knowing where the cameras are and shit.

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  132. Shouldn't a month of vignetttes establishing the character for the new audience help solve the problem.

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  133. blahblahblahblah5May 15, 2015 at 5:21 PM

    She stinks based on... what evidence exactly? Trained by Lance Storm? The excellent feud and matches she had with Paige in NXT? Or, no, I know, it's her forced-by work as a comedy jobber on the main roster that you are judging this woman on, or maybe just because you don't get a boner when you look at her because she isn't 95 pounds and wearing skimpy ring gear to make up for her lack of talent.

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  134. blahblahblahblah5May 15, 2015 at 5:23 PM

    Are you blind, an idiot, or just plain sexist?

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  135. The biggest problem is that they are SHIT with developing characters on the main roster...full stop.

    The wrestlers who are over right now got themselves over (with the possible exception of Rusev--and they're about to mess with Rusev for no good reason.)

    Endless vignettes are fine (necessary)...but then they give up on the character they've just introduced, or bury them in commentary, or forget all continuity, or abort angles at the drop of a hat.

    Ignoring what you think of them as wrestlers...as characters: Adam Rose should have (and could have) worked. Bo Dallas WAS working. Paige should have been better. The Shield should have stayed together but if not then Ambrose shouldn't have forgotten his blood feud with Rollins and Reigns should have stayed a silent, brooding beast. And Rollins should have a better answer for "Why did you betray your brothers in The Shield?" than "I don't have to tell you why I did it." The Wyatt Family not only should have stayed together but it should have grown with new converts.

    But also, there should have been a payoff to the Goldust/Stardust feud, there should have been a reason for the Bellas invisible face turn, they should have better capitalized on the popularity of Mizdow and post-WM30 Cesaro etc. etc. etc.

    They used to be better at this, didn't they? What's changed? There used to be more backstage stuff...(although, it's hard to argue for more backstage stuff when what backstage stuff they do now is so stiff and forced.) They used to have more trust in the performers that they hired who had decades of experience in the territories, developing their own characters on their own and understanding how to get themselves over--both on the ring and on the mic.

    I still say that the best thing that they can do now is to get every person on the roster in front of a camera (kind of the way they did those "ring of lights" confessional interviews in the E:60 special) and have the explain: who they are and what their motivations for wrestling are...in just 30 seconds to a minute. and then start playing one those in every commercial break or the top and bottom of the hours on the Network. It forces the performer to be clear about who he/she is...it forces creative to be reminded how those characters are supposed to be...and it helps the audience to understand what they're seeing.

    It would definitely help prevent the "Who is Emma, why is she being weird and why should I care about her?" feeling that the Raw audiences got from her when she debuted.

    AND...they're going to have to figure out if NXT is canon or not. Right now, it isn't...except when they want it to be. And the more they promote (and tour) NXT, the more that they're going to have to (and want to) acknowledge it and what the people on NXT do (and who they are...)

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  136. MaffewOfBotchamaniaMay 15, 2015 at 6:36 PM

    THANK YOU

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  137. What the fuck are you talking about? Man, pretty fucking tired of being taking to the woodshed for voicing a god damn opinion. How fucking dare you assume I only think of women wrestlers as sexual fucking objects. I, personally, have been unimpressed with her matches, with the exception of the one she had on the first NXT special. I also don't think she has much of a personality. Emma is not in the same class as Sami or Owens, or for that matter Sasha Banks, who happens to be my favorite worker in the WWF, as we speak. So seriously, asshole, don't come at me like I'm a fucking dick head because I'm voicing an opinion. And I expect an apology, mark.

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  138. That's interesting. That would have been an excellent team up.

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  139. There are lots of easy things which WWE could do for all of their wrestlers but don't.

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  140. I seem to recall that working out well for Mankind.

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  141. Uh, I think it's that slogan Pepsi had 15 years ago.

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  142. Yeah, it totally should. Why did they quit doing buildup vignettes anyway? It's not like they've ever hurt the show's ratings.

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  143. One of the Godfather's hos was a Hardcore champion.

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  144. A title is a title.

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  145. Hey, a title is a title.

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  146. I'd say that in her prime she was just as over with the NXT crowd.

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  147. Easy answer, they're not booking anymore they are writing. And the writers are not past wrestlers but failures from TV. Most of all they are writing for an audience on 1, Vince McMahon and no one else. If Vince laughs it's on TV, if not it gets killed. It's almost like they don't want to see most of the NXT roster succeed on the main roster. Emma should've been huge, she has the look, talent and charisma. Ascension were doing great on NXT, but buried by JBL and Cole. Adam Rose was great when he came in, and was cut off quickly with the bunny crap. How long till they lose interest in Neville and he's jobbing to Miz and Rusev. Does anyone think Enzo, Cass, Breeze, Vaudevillians, etc will ever get a good push. Hell even Owens will probably get crushed by Show, Kane, Cena, Orton, Roman, etc. The glass ceiling is more like titanium and the rare person gets through. Honestly, if Roman wasn't a failure at Mania, Seth would not have cashed in. That seemed like a knee jerk reaction to a failing main event. :-(

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