Sunday, May 24, 2015

TNA > ECW

I know everyone loves bashing TNA, but let's not be blind and stupid here.
 
Think about this; ECW is beloved by most fans and it ran less than 8 years from August 94 through March 2001. ECW produced ONE 5-star match by your account, and the only guy who came straight out of ECW to find major WWE success was RVD. Everyone else used ECW as a stepping stone (Austin, Foley) or a place to recharge (Sid, Rude). Based on talent, quality, probably overall money made while in business, and longevity, shouldn't we remember TNA as being better than ECW?
 
TNA had over a decade of amazing matches. Their talent level was NEVER the issue. Starting from Day 1, the X-Division was fresh and different and was near 4-star match every week. The Cruiserweight/Extreme style had been seen in a while. Guys like AJ, Daniels, Lynn, Low-Ki, Petey Williams, Doug Williams, etc. busting their asses. The Tag team division also was always quality especially compared to WWE over that period. XXX, AMW, Team Canada, the Naturals, and then eventually the Dudleys, LAX, Beer Money, MCMG.  They even created fun gimmick matches and didn't water them down like WWE. Lockdown was a great idea. 6-sided ring, made them unique. Ultimate X, Monster's Ball, and King of the Mountain were original match concepts that worked. Sure they took on WWE wrestlers (Christian, Angle, Dudleys, Jeff Hardy, etc) but doesn't WWE do the exact same thing (Hello, Samoa Joe, Sting, etc.) I can list 3 DVDs worth of great matches right now and I wasn't even watching regularly! They released a Best of Samoa Joe in TNA DVD and Ultimate Matches set which covered their gimmick matches. Mostly great stuff and those were from 2005-6.
 
I guess my general question is: Once we get past the bashing of TNA's booking debacles and money issues can we give them any credits as a 13 year wrestling promotion?
​ 
Here's my counter:  ECW survived as the third promotion during a period when the two other companies were doing the biggest business in history and crushing all the competition, and people still chant its name at shows today.  TNA was handed a captive audience of millions of lost WCW fans, and even using all their leftovers still managed to completely alienate even that group of fans to the point where no one even talks about them today.  ​

115 comments:

  1. I'm not an ECW fanboy and never really was, but it's gone through a backlash online the past few years that I'm not on board with either. (Not with Scott--he never liked ECW to start with--but elsewhere.)


    But ECW was also a REAL alternative in a wrestling world that desperately needed one. It didn't just pay lip service to being alternative while trying to be WWF/WCW Lite.

    ReplyDelete
  2. When you think WCW, you think big stars, swerves, cruiserweigths and technical wrestling.
    When you think ECW, you think hardcore weapons, extreme moments, international stars & cruiserweights

    When you think TNA, what do you think of? does anything positive actually stand out as TNAs definition?

    ReplyDelete
  3. Buffalo HopscotchMay 24, 2015 at 9:07 AM

    They did have the 6 sides, Ultimate X and the X-Division for a while, but all that was

    ReplyDelete
  4. TNA was handed a ton of advantages that ECW never was.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Funny thing is ECW started out similar to TNA - tiny regional NWA promotion that a lot of washed up 80s guys retreated to. Only difference is, once Eddie Gilbert came in, they spun off into a completely new direction and actually used the older guys to put over new stars rather than becoming WWF/WCW-lite.

    ReplyDelete
  6. ECW helped influence the biggest boom period in wrestling history (The Attitude Era.) TNA's legacy is going to be the influence they had on major cable companies to never take on a non-WWE wrestling show again.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Yep. I remember going to an early ECW show as a kid just excited to see Jimmy Snuka.

    ReplyDelete
  8. TNA is Global with a bigger money mark.

    ReplyDelete
  9. TNA is the kid who was born on third, somehow believed he hit a triple, and then still managed to get picked off.

    ReplyDelete
  10. There will not be TNA chants at WWE events a decade down the road. Advantage: ECW.

    ReplyDelete
  11. " TNA was handed a captive audience of millions of lost WCW fans"


    It was? TNA started over a year after WCW folded.

    ReplyDelete
  12. It's just like anything in pro wrestling. What once was cool to like is now cool to bash.

    ReplyDelete
  13. TNA began to put out a really good product in '05 that genuinely felt like a true alternative. They ruined that with the Russo/Hogan/Bischoff combo.

    ReplyDelete
  14. ECW, for all of its flaws, was revolutionary. So much so that I can remember watching it for the first time after coming home from a night out with friends. It was about 2 AM and I just happened to come across the channel it was on and my first reaction was, "What is THIS?" ECW may not have been very good (especially in hindsight), but it grabbed onto your attention and held onto it.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Bow Ties Are CoolMay 24, 2015 at 9:28 AM

    The most fun I had at a live wrestling event was Heat Wave 2000. Technically, the actual wrestling wasn't all that great, but the atmosphere was incredible.

    ReplyDelete
  16. For me it was at an ECW house show. Shit was crazy.

    ReplyDelete
  17. And TNA wasn't?

    Oh wait you said revolutionary, not revolting...

    ReplyDelete
  18. Maybe ECW didn't have the same quality workers or as many great matches? (Idk I didn't really watch TNA) but ECW is definitely going to be remembered more and had a huge influence on the business so ECW wins i guess.

    ReplyDelete
  19. ECW also directly inspired the Attitude Era, the most profitable and popular era ever for pro wrestling and produced several extremely popular superstars who went on to find great success in other promotions.

    TNA had better matches in the eyes of nerds who assign stars by workrate, but TNA inspired nothing and produced no stars.

    ReplyDelete
  20. They didn't water down their concept matches? Russo used to throw them out there on Impact every week. King Of The Mountain was a load of nonsense. They did ENTIRE PPV's of cage matches.

    Everyone knows they had talent. They just wasted them all. They wasted the prime years of some great, great talent.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Those WCW fans. Captivated, lost, and alienated. What a ride. I'm pretty sure in reality they all just died. The average WCW viewer was like 88 years old.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Don't forget REVERSE royal rumble.

    ReplyDelete
  23. You cut out the salutations at the end Scott that read "Your friend, Dixie"

    ReplyDelete
  24. I shall never forget!

    ReplyDelete
  25. Which was the match where Homicide had to climb out a hole on the top of globe-type cage? That was the kind of amazing planning I'll miss.

    ReplyDelete
  26. It's just too soon for this kind of email. TNA is still undergoing it's squalid, bitter, embarrassing death. Show some goddamn respect emailer and let us bury this thing properly.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Paul Heyman and ECW was the little engine that could. Little money, little exposure beyond late-night sports network death-slots, and both WWF and WCW raiding the fuck out of him and he made it work as long as humanly possible. TNA has none of the heart that ECW had, regardless of star rating performances.

    ReplyDelete
  28. The red bird cage of death

    Which was the opening match of the new Monday Night Wars by the way #LOLTNA

    ReplyDelete
  29. Obviously the best use of that platform as well as Homicide.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Here's a good counter: TNA, at several points, legit tried to copy ECW to the point that they used ECW's name (and probably violated copyright law).


    Do you think ECW would have EVER tried to copy a company like TNA?

    ReplyDelete
  31. And it ended in a DQ!

    ReplyDelete
  32. But TNA Mecca's clawing at the casket insisting that TNA's still alive.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Courtney Cox looks pretty awful in Scream 3.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I loved the Botchamania that featured Hardcore Justice; from Tazz and Tenay accidentally saying ECW again and again to referring to guys by their non-TNA names to the awful blue-tinted dark lighting, to watching old ECW guys bumble around with nothing in the tank, it was very much a great summation of TNA

    ReplyDelete
  35. I've never wanted to punch an internet person more in my life.

    ReplyDelete
  36. TNA has always had an identity crisis. They wanted to be an alternative, but nothing really seemed that much different except they pushed wrestlers who were 5"10"/200 lbs. instead of 6'4/270. ECW legit felt like something completely different than what mainstream wrestling was. It was ugly, gritty, and did everything opposite what WWF and WCW was doing. Im not even an ECW fan, by the way.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Pretty much after Friends Season 3 (1996-97), she lost waaaaaaay too much weight.

    ReplyDelete
  38. I'd upvote this twice if I could. Once for the point, which I agree with, and second for introducing a point by saying "Here's a good point". I admire this confidence.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I think he means that they didn't restricted the wrestlers in those matches.

    ReplyDelete
  40. You could argue that the only aspect TNA had which was even remotely unique was the X-Division, but that eventually became defined as the Cruiserweight division around the time the old guard from WCW came around.


    That reminds me of the angle TNA did where Bischoff declared all the X-Division guys Vanilla Midgets, called them worthless, and proceeded to prove how worthless they are by having them beaten all the time. What were they actually trying to do? Sabotage their own company.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Stoke 6 Liverpool 1.

    Upvote button

    |
    |
    V

    ReplyDelete
  42. Yeah agreed. Her and Jen seemed to have a competition for who could go without eating the longest.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Why thank you. I'm rewarding your upvoting with my own upvoting.


    The circle of brown-nosing continues.

    ReplyDelete
  44. I remember watching that thinking "wait... How does this work?" And then as Homicide was trying to flip himself out of the cage "This is hilarious!"

    ReplyDelete
  45. With everything TNA had, and the exception of Jeff Jarrett for some of the earlier years, did TNA ever really have heart? Dixie Carter has been the one constant since those early days of the weekly PPV's, and we know her history of bone-headedness and ignorant behavior too often.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Meltzer responded to the past couple days today on his show. Said Dixie knew before the story came out, and he tried to contact her several times and she refused to respond to him


    Also said he talked to a network exec who said they might have had some interest in TNA but after the Spike stuff and the last two days why would they or any other network ever want to deal with these people. Said there is interest in wrestling programming as a companion on networks that air MMA because the audiences overlap.


    Also said he talked to some people in the music industry after Billy Corgan attacked him this week and he was informed of how hated Billy is in the music industry (which is 100% true).

    ReplyDelete
  47. Don't know anything about soccer but this made me laugh. Upvote.

    ReplyDelete
  48. That is correct. That is an upvote button. Here, you get a cookie.


    No, you do not get an upvote.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Cena vs Orton,one more timeMay 24, 2015 at 9:55 AM

    YOULL NEVER WALK ALONE STEVIE G 4 LIFE M8

    ReplyDelete
  50. Tempers are high... tonight is Game 5 of the Rangers/Lightning Eastern Conference Finals.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Yeah I listened to that earlier. He sounded pretty sick and tired of it all. Bu yeah, he says everyone knows and he's just baffled at the way they're handling it. I think the fact that days have gone by without a denial, it's sinking into most people that Dave is certainly right.

    ReplyDelete
  52. It says something about TNA when guys like Nash and Foley were asked by fans at non-TNA related appearances where they were these days. Or they said they thought they were dead. There were so many fans that had no idea that TNA even existed.

    ReplyDelete
  53. United's game was brutally dull, but this was still a pretty good day. Goals all over the place. Can't wait for next season!

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anyone wanna trade a cookie for an upvote?

    ReplyDelete
  55. Ooh! I want a cookie! Here's an upvote.


    ...wait.


    FUCK.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Cookies are pretty awesome, to be fair.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Yeah, he's frustrated by how stupid they are.


    He dropped some other interesting nuggets like ROH apparently talkes to Fox Sports 2 at one point, and Lucha Underground had a lot of positive feedback in MMA circles.


    It just speaks to people being interested in wrestling for MMA promotion purposes and how if TNA played their cards right they may have had a better chance to escape death yet again, but they're killing themselves but looking like complete idiots.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Cena vs Orton,one more timeMay 24, 2015 at 10:00 AM

    100 MILLION + spent last summer, and they barely made it to the Europa league.
    Ha!

    ReplyDelete
  59. Beat me to it. TNA tried to relaunch ECW as a faction of sorts, what, 4 times? Probably more?

    And promoters, to this day, 14 years later, are pulling ECW's corpse out of the grave and making it dance for nickels.

    Think anyone will be doing that for TNA?

    ReplyDelete
  60. I can see TNA reunions happening. Cheex, Tiny the Timekeeper, and Disgraceland need something to look forward to.

    ReplyDelete
  61. TNA's entire 13 year history is like a nightmare scenario of "what would have happened if WCW hadn't gone out of business but continued to get even worse".



    ECW was the polar opposite in terms of utilizing a limited budget and talent pool. They're not even comparable.

    ReplyDelete
  62. At some point, the name TNA was the best idea they could come up with for their promotion. I feel like if everyone had just walked away at the point, everyone would have been a lot better off.

    Something like "Oh...oh this is the best we can do? OK. Well... I think we're done here." *stompstompstompstomp* *slam* *squealing tires* "Ye-haw!"

    ReplyDelete
  63. WWA tried the same thing earlier than TNA (using the WCW Cast-offs WWE wouldn't touch) before the end of 2001 with similar lackluster results. Once WCW died and WWF buried them with the invasion angle, they were gone permanently.

    ReplyDelete
  64. There is so much drug use in that post, the cup turned green after reading it.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Oh come on, this is a TNA and ECW comparison.


    There wouldn't be a drug test.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Where's the Daily Thread so we can stop talking about stupid TNA?

    ReplyDelete
  67. Aye, ECW made the most out of next-to-nothing. TNA had it all, former world champions, hot young talent, prime-time TV, they had *everything*. And never achieved anything but existence.

    ReplyDelete
  68. So much drugs in this post that it's about to get sent to DDP Yoga.

    ReplyDelete
  69. I have been trumped. I will take my leave.

    ReplyDelete
  70. One company took misfits and has beens and made them into national stars. One company had some of the biggest stars in wrestling history and ran middle school gyms.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Looking at their arms in the ladt seasons is scary

    ReplyDelete
  72. lariatoooooooooooooMay 24, 2015 at 10:17 AM

    Wait, wait, wait. We're supposed to view King of the Mountain as a point in TNA's favor?

    ReplyDelete
  73. Meltzer has stood up to VINCE MCMAHON at various points in his career; I doubt he gives a shit about the TNA trolls.

    ReplyDelete
  74. I'm gonna need to see the cookie.

    ReplyDelete
  75. It's kinda weird that as TNA circles the drain (there's got to be a metaphor beyond this) this is the most TNA related blog posts in succession we've ever seen.

    ReplyDelete
  76. WHATEVER YOU DO PVT PYLE DONT FALL DOWN THAT WOULD BREAK MY FUCKING HEART

    http://youtu.be/EX29KSEOY9E

    ReplyDelete
  77. ECW captured the zeitgeist, and thus was much more of an achievement, even though TNA had more good matches.

    ReplyDelete
  78. TNA has definitely captured the zeitgeist when it comes to online looneytunes getting very very angry about very little.

    ReplyDelete
  79. It's like when you hear someone dies and then you suddenly realize how much you liked them, only without that second bit, the liking them bit.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Who were the most notable guys who TNA introduced to North America? Most of their best matches that I can remember featured guys who had already been tearing it up in Ring of Honor, or were indie vets like Jerry Lynn.

    ReplyDelete
  81. For all the negative, the shot of Joe rising up behind Angle is still pretty cool.

    ReplyDelete
  82. TNA is more like that annoying character in a horror movie you want to see die, who manages to live until the final 30 minutes, and then dies in underwhelming style. We're still waiting for that last part.

    ReplyDelete
  83. ECW did the one thing TNA never felt like doing. Giving fans what it wanted. Even WWE isn't as bad as TNA was at that.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Hee Haw ran from 1969 to 1992.

    Doesn't mean it was a better show than Seinfeld.

    ReplyDelete
  85. At least ecw had a Leader that changed wrestling For at the time was great. What did tna do to change wrestling?

    ReplyDelete
  86. I guess... Roode and Storm weren't known before TNA. That Border City Wrestling connection through D'Amore seemed to help a few guys.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Stranger In The AlpsMay 24, 2015 at 10:35 AM

    Are we really blind and stupid for bashing TNA? That is a rather extreme generalization of what we do. It's more smarky and sarcastic.


    I didn't read anything else after that because I don't care.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Garfield has run in newspapers for 38 years and counting.

    Calvin and Hobbes ran for 10 years.

    Therefore Garfield must be the superior comic strip!

    ReplyDelete
  89. https://twitter.com/HEELZiggler/status/602513497377869824



    Dolph is the best.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Stranger In The AlpsMay 24, 2015 at 10:40 AM

    That one chick wants him to snapchat. What a whore.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Well with the longevity and amount of crossover media it has made one could argue that Garfield was and is more popular. However knowing the anti commercialism stance of its creator and the length of time he penned strips you cannot deny the influence of Calvin and Hobbes. Based on the criteria that matters, reality, Garfield wins easily. However in a what if situation it's anyone's game.

    ReplyDelete
  92. I heart Calvin & Hobbes.

    ReplyDelete
  93. I love playing calvinball.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Yes, but the argument isn't over popularity, it's over quality.

    Garfield is of course far more successful financially than Calvin and Hobbes. It's not a question. But what is the superior strip from an entertainment and artistic standpoint?

    ReplyDelete
  95. ECW was revolutionary and different and provided the blueprint for the attitude era. It gave exposure to some talented guys (Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, etc.). What did TNA do? Disappoint fans repeatedly? ECW helped revitalize a moribund wrestling industry in the mid 90s. TNA squandered an opportunity to provide an alternative to WWE on a national platform.

    ReplyDelete
  96. I think more people like Garfield. I think more people *love* Calvin & Hobbes.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Cm punk all the tna originals suicide homicide tommy dreamer red shirt security little petey pump that one Scottish dude who fucked up by showing up to a tna show

    ReplyDelete
  98. Possibly true, and ask any comic artist over the last 20 years which is the more influential strip and they'll say Calvin & Hobbes. In its short run it influenced many and, as you said, created an incredible loyal fanbase.

    It's the same argument with ECW. You have dozens of wrestlers who were influenced by ECW. Is there a single wrestler who says or will say "TNA inspired me to become a wrestler"?

    ReplyDelete
  99. I only enjoyed TNA during the time Christian came in as a face. Very good weekly TV at that point. With Angle and Joe coming up, future seemed bright. Instead they killed it.

    ReplyDelete
  100. The best thing TNA did is take WWE retreads and indy guys they didn't see any value in and gave them a job when WWE didn't want them for whatever reason. Some worked out great (the Dudleys and Christian); some were living in the past (billy gunn and roaddogg); some became a joke (hardyz); some of them became better than they were in wwe/wcw (ec3)

    ReplyDelete
  101. A strip that is in the public eye like Garfield will be remembered for far longer than Calvin and Hobbes. More so in the days before the Internet, where physical media was the end all be all. It doesn't matter what imaginary categories you make up to quantify something; longevity and cash generated is what helps something to be remembered most. I understand your argument and your point of view is solid and hard to sway. However if tomorrow a bomb or similar disaster were to occur that wiped out a large amount of humanity the Internet etc, there's a much less chance of quality winning out over quantity.

    ReplyDelete
  102. ECW also helped launch some major careers of guys who went on to become world champions in the company that matters. I have a hard time thinking any TNA products will amount to anything. Eric Young can fuck right off.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Four years after ECW closed, WWE was able to run an extremely successful reunion PPV -- one that was repeated the following year. To this day people are trying to milk ECW's corpse. One could argue Tommy Dreamer's House of Hardcore is the dying fumes of the various ECW reunions.

    In 2020, do you think anyone would give a shit about a TNA reunion show?

    ReplyDelete
  104. ...I think if a bomb went off and destroyed the world people would have much more to think about than late twentieth century comic strips.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Probably, but rest assured jim Davis has 1400 strips ready for just such an event.

    ReplyDelete
  106. God, that was so pathetic. They don't even own ECW, nor did they have direct involvement with the company like WWF/E did. It was a company desperately trying to latch onto something.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Ha, that's the truth. I read something about how Garfield strips are done well over a year in advance

    ReplyDelete
  108. Christian willingly left WWE for TNA... then went back to WWE. A better choice is Raven, who went from Sunday Night Heat exile to a legit reason to give a crap about TNA... until he was jobbed to Jarrett in a way that would compare to modern day "Cena wins LOL" style.

    ReplyDelete
  109. TNA: One Night Stand! Featuring Eric Young vs. Rockstar Spud!

    ReplyDelete
  110. Stranger In The AlpsMay 24, 2015 at 10:55 AM

    One more thing: TNA marks are the worst type of marks.


    I see you lurking, you mark.

    ReplyDelete