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Giving it away in a different sense


> Hey Scott!
>
> Who would you say are/were the worst guys when it comes to not keeping face/letting their body language reveal that they are not winning a certain match? I seem to recall HBK and Jarrett being two examples, but perhaps there are others.
>
> And for fun let's reverse it: can't keep it in that they are winning.
>
> Keep on keeping on!

If there's anyone with a more blatant grumpy job-face than Randy Orton, I haven't seen him.

Comments

  1. It's called the Boo Boo face. I recall the first time I heard that was Shane Douglas in a Torch talk in 95 talking about how Davey Boy told him Scott Hall had non stop boo boo face after initially being told Douglas was going over on him. Ramon had it later changed

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  2. Val Venis. It wasn't his face but his effort. When Val was in his first 3 years or so before he became a jobber, nobody could half pass a job like Val. Guy could really go when he wanted, but his effort in losses was often pathetic.

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  3. Buff and Lex had that epic meltdown in WCW against Palumbo and O'Haire; cut a long-winded 10 minute promo burying the new guys, get promptly beat in 10 seconds, then lay there for 5 minutes completely dead. Then grinning all the way to the back, while over selling.

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    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  6. Warrior used 'Warrior ' for his entrance music?! Holy balls, that's funny. I mean, as a child of the 80's I dug the song (even though it sounds like one of Pat Benetar's scraps) but man that is completely the wrong song, title aside.

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  7. That six man sounds good, I want to see that. But holy shit, 10 minutes for Mike Sharpe, and lol why did Sivi have to get the big comeback? If this was on TV they should have just let Dibiase kill him.

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  8. Scott Nortons run in during Starrcade 97 main event I always found hilarious

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  9. Dolph always seems extra happy when he jobs, like he's being passive-aggressive about it.

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  10. He seemed so out of place here. They had nothing for him when he first arrived. Once they gave him the music and rope shaking it all came together.

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  11. It was a good one. Those elimination tags they put on the house shows I think were precursors to the Survivor Series.

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  12. So Aldo did end up ducking McGregor. Oh well. Seeing McGregor wreck Chad Mendes might be fun.

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  13. Probably because he wins so rarely and he's so self-aware about it that it's Incorporated into the character.

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  14. Didn't Trips wear white boots (like waving the white flag) in losing efforts? Or was it the other way around? Or was I just high

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  15. He had a phase in 03 and 04 with white boots

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  16. I want to see that Dibiase match.

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  17. Not sure it's quite the same thing since he tries to incorporate it into kayfabe but Cena's mannerisms during matches he's going to lose seem to change. He argues with the ref during losses, he shows visible anger instead of just smiling off near falls. Also after Cena gets pinned he goddamn near teleports to the back, no laying on his back and selling at all.

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  18. I believe Scott Steiner wore his "I'm
    jobbing tonight" face to the ring on a few occasions.

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  19. Bret wasn't very good at hiding when he didn't want to job either.

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  20. You mean the consummate professional, Bret Hart??? I am stunned!!!

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  21. 8/31/87 edition of Primetime Wrestling

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  22. Bret returning to the ring after the Iron man match went to overtime was the worst. He should have looked pissed. Instead he looked like "Hurry up and kick me in the head so I can go back home."

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  23. In fairness, even though they saw Warrior as a future star, they were being patient with him. Let him develop his act naturally, let him learn to work with the help of good hands like Horowitz, and then push him when the time is right. It was easier to "hide" guys in those days, but Warrior's time on house shows was essentially a 1987 version of NXT.

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  24. Good point. And it was easy to hide them with less TV and a huge house show business.

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  25. This is actually a great point. One thing I like about Cena is that he DOES get visibly annoyed at the refs during a competitive match....FAR more than any top face ever does. He gets borderline heelish. He grabs the ref, he gets right in their face, his facial expressions can be nasty. But that anger and frustration doesn't carry over post-match. The next night on Raw, he's blowing it off or being a consummate professional about it.

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  26. I seem to recall him only breaking them out for PPV matches, though.

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  27. A lot of guys change up their look for a loss.

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  28. Oh it sure is.

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  29. I can't tell with Orton since he has absolutely no personality whatsoever.

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  30. I took that as he wanted to ring the bell so he could take advantage of a weakened Hbk. But he did have a look of wanting to get out of there

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  31. He's burying his darkside.


    And he doesn't do it often, but he breaks it out for the guys he wants to make (Punk, Bryan, Owens) and I think that's a very effective usage of it. Cena vs. Ziggler? Eh, who cares, Cena will win. Cena vs. Bryan? Well, then he can't afford to make mistakes.

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  32. Orton only shows emotion when something goes wrong in the ring.


    He's like...the least professional wrestler ever.

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  33. And the least interesting person that's ever appeared on tv. I've see cardboard boxes with more personality.

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  34. I couldn't agree more.

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  35. He had that look the entire match. Hard to believe a guy he had "respect" for and supposedly eager to meet the challenge of would illicit such aloof mannerisms.

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  36. Yup. Say what you want about either guy, but Bret visibly wrestled that match with a HUGE chip on his shoulder while Shawn restricted his dipshittery to the post-match celebration.

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  37. I didn't think HBK was bad at all with this. Maybe just a bit, pre-comeback.


    I always felt like Jericho and RVD had some stretches where their body language would telegraph the job. (for RVD this usually meant being even more sloppy/stiff)

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  38. He'd half-ass the match and wear the pouty face that later became a permanent fixture of his WCW career.

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  39. Bret was also unreasonably bitter about how they supposedly portrayed him as old and slow which I didn't get that impression watching it at all. The story is one is flashy the other fundamentals but Bret took it as they're saying hes better than me.

    And Bret didn't like how Shawn was showing off in the match. Dude that's the story of the match. The no nonsense guy vs the showman.

    I like Bret but his hatred of Shawn made him irrational a lot of times.

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  40. That's actually just the "I'm jobbing to Shane-fucking-Douglas" face.

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  41. Only I can't blame him for that in the WCW era.

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  42. Well, if you don't count Shawn sandbagging the match, forcing Bret to exert extra effort to lift him off the canvas. That's a dick move.

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  43. Adam "Colorado" CurryJune 30, 2015 at 8:48 PM

    Wasn't there some deal with Kane where you could tell he was jobbing because of his pyro?

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  44. Orton always looks grumpy and he jobs quite a bit (for someone who's more or less a main eventer), so it's hard to tell.

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  45. Yeah, apparently the pyro can only go off once, so if he's jobbing, he does the big explosion thing before the match, and if he's going over, he waits until after the match. Or something like that.

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  46. Adam "Colorado" CurryJune 30, 2015 at 8:52 PM

    Yeah, that sounds right.

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  47. Scott Steiner, Capital Combat 90

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  48. I believe Horowitz was new to the company to, and his professionalism helping them develop Warrior is likely part of why the guy was around so long

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  49. They stocked up on jobbers here. Boone, Horowitz, Wolfe, etc.

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    ReplyDelete
  51. ✣☯✤✥☯❋ . if you, thought Gloria `s posting is surprising...♛♛♛♛ I just got a gorgeous volvo when I got my check for $4854 this-last/4 weeks and a little over ten thousand last-month . it's realy my favourite job I have ever had ✯✯✯✯. I began this 9-months ago and straight away began to bring home at least $69, per-hour .

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    ReplyDelete
  52. ✣☯✤✥☯❋ . if you, thought Gloria `s posting is surprising...♛♛♛♛ I just got a gorgeous volvo when I got my check for $4854 this-last/4 weeks and a little over ten thousand last-month . it's realy my favourite job I have ever had ✯✯✯✯. I began this 9-months ago and straight away began to bring home at least $69, per-hour .

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    ReplyDelete
  53. I never saw Shawn sandbag him, even in the instances where it supposedly was plain as day.

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  54. I don't remember the PPV but I remember Paul Roma threw an epic tantrum for the entirety of a match when he was supposed to put Alex Wright over. Showboated, no-selling, I think he even kicked out of what was meant to be the final pin.

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  55. This just blew my mind

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  56. At the first ECW One Night Stand, Eddie came out looking super pissed. Sorta gave it away that he was gonna lose.

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  57. Cardboard boxes could have gravelly-voiced super spies underneath them.


    Orton has just more Orton beneath him.


    Good worker, but has anybody noticed he's been gone?

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  58. Oprah NoodlemantraJune 30, 2015 at 9:50 PM

    He looked like he wanted to be ANYWHERE else in the world...

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  59. There's a joke to be made from that.

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  60. Oprah NoodlemantraJune 30, 2015 at 9:51 PM

    Superbrawl V.

    He was canned right after I think...

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  61. Aside from the fact they both vigorously deny any legitimate heat at this point, all these points are perfectly cromulent.

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  62. Scott's rant :

    "Opening match: Paul Roma v. Alex Wright. This match is why you don’t see Roma around anymore. I’ll explain why as we go along. The idea was that Wright was the undefeated rookie at the time, and WCW told Roma to go out and make him look good en route to losing to him. Roma had other ideas. Roma destroys Wright to start, then mocks Wright’s goofy dance to BABYFACE heat. They trade wristlocks as Orndorff comes out for moral support. Roma won’t sell anything and soon takes over with a couple of elbowdrops and more posing. Wright gets tossed and spends some time on the floor. Back in and Wright fights for a backslide. Roma won’t even give him that easily, and he immediately kicks out, not even giving Wright a one-count. Into the resting. Wright fights free but Roma moves out of the way of a dropkick, making Wright look stupid again. Roma follows up with a beautiful flying elbow, making sure to take his time and showboat so Wright has to lay there doing nothing. Wright finally mounts the comeback and Roma won’t
    cooperate, messing up a Wright hiptoss attempt in the process. Roma and Orndorff stop for a conference and Roma finally allows Wright a move – a fluke schoolboy rollup for the pin at 13:20, although Roma actually had the balls to
    KICK OUT and make him look even worse. Ref counted three anyway. *1/2 Roma was fired for being an unprofessional shit after the show, and hasn’t been seen
    anywhere outside of the indys since then as a result. We’ll go 10 hot pokers up
    Sullivan’s ass for having to watch Roma, a lifelong jobber and a joke of the
    industry, attempt to make himself look good at Wright’s expense. I guess Paul
    knows his role now. Weirdly, the same shit happened to Wright AGAIN last year,
    as Jim Duggan refused to sell for him at Halloween Havoc, thus killing the
    Berlyn gimmick out of the starting gate."

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  63. Mendes will probably decision him and silence his hype. Bad call on UFC s part.

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  64. A friend of mine came up with the formula that Orton is more interesting than a rock (not The Rock, obviously) but less interesting than a gravel driveway. So basically Orton is more interesting than a rock, but less interesting than lots of rocks.

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  65. A friend of mine came up with the formula that Orton is more interesting than a rock (not The Rock, obviously) but less interesting than a gravel driveway. So basically Orton is more interesting than a rock, but less interesting than lots of rocks

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  66. Yeah it must have been rough making $3,000,000 a year

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  67. Oprah NoodlemantraJune 30, 2015 at 10:33 PM

    Ah the good old HPUTA system... it's been too long.

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  68. I prefer the "How much money will Shane give you to shut the fuck up" system.

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  69. Weird, considering Eddie was more often than not doing jobs. I've heard some rumors, but does anyone know more about the situation?

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  70. I'm not saying it wasn't about the money, but sometimes having something worth-a-damn to do is important too, and Bret in WCW meant zilch.

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  71. Eddie was always a super emotional guy. Could've just been he didn't like the way the match was laid out, or the time got cut right before the match, or any number of things.

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  72. Well, seeing as he wiggled his way out of doing any job he ever had to do, it's hard to remember when he actually did lose.

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  73. He wasn't greedy for money, he was greedy for respect. Just saw that promo earlier today.

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  74. Was the "Paid off by Shane" story from a PPV or episode of Raw?

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  75. I feel like it was a PPV just because of how clearly I remember it, and I don't tend to remember the RAW write ups that well.

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  76. That match was such a bummer.

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  77. What a worthless professional wrestler Paul Roma was.

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  78. I seem to remember John Cena having one when he came down for the EC match the night Edge cashed in on him (New Year's Revolution?).

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  79. Macklin, Man With The KnightJune 30, 2015 at 11:42 PM

    I've honestly never noticed any of this stuff.

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  80. The dude didn't lose to Austin once. That says it all.

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  81. Can you blame him re: Ziggler?

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  82. POONTANG YOUR ASS ON OUT OF HERE

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  83. Brian, in reference to Bobby Heenan calling Johnny V despicable, I do remember Heenan saying once (book or shoot interview, i forget) that the Valiants had heat with him. Forget why though.

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  84. You smell fishy. When's the last time you douched?

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  85. Pretty sure 'skinhead' has to do with the fans wanting to see Beefcake shave Valiant bald.

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  86. Yeah, same here.

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  87. Sort of off topic, but Earl Hebner was atrocious after the earpiece era began about tipping off run-ins and high spots. Not too mention the TWO-COUNT OF DOOM.

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  88. Not at all. Cena shouldn't be pulling out desperation faces when it comes to losers like Ziggler.


    He's a top level guy, he doesn't need to treat everybody like they're on his level.

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  89. Geez, you're right. I only realized this very second that he wasn't on Raw last week.

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  90. Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHX2koAOHRE
    Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NPPSYyouag

    You can really see the lack of selling in the restholds. Roma is jawing with everybody he can with zero pain on his face or in his mannerisms. What a bitch.

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  91. I believe Mickie James was guilty of this on many occasions and was even called out on it by Jake the Snake Roberts when he was reviewing Raws.

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  92. Macklin, Man With The KnightJuly 1, 2015 at 12:57 AM

    Reading through this thread and I swear you're all making this up. I've never noticed any of this shit. You guys are nuts.

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  93. Yeah, and id he wasn't in the match, but there were canisters taped to the ring posts, you knew he was running in at some point...

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  94. To be fair, nobody liked putting Alex Wright over.

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  95. The only time Cena stuck around that I remember, is WM 28.

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  96. He could find something worth a damn to do the other 150+ hours of the week.

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  97. How desperate was the WWF for any WCW bodies when they gave Bagwell another chance after that atrocity?

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  98. I don't think anybody notices at the time. These seem like opinions formed after the fact.

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  99. I would say that its known as doing the JOB for a reason.

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  100. Michaels is my number 1 pick for sure.

    I still remember how disinterested he looked during the first half of his match with Kurt Angle at WM 21. You could just see on his face that he was pissed that he's losing. I had a similar feeling at WM 23. And I guess SummerSlam 2005 doesn't even need explanation - that was something brutally unprofessional (although if Hogan tried to back out of a match where he would job back to Shawn, he deserved what he got).

    While Cena doesn't look pissed, he can do little things that sort of undermine his opponent. At WM 28, he was obviously much better conditioned than The Rock and he wasn't selling any exhaustion even in late portions of the match to the point it just accentuated how out of breath The Rock really is. At SummerSlam 2013, he wrestled Daniel Bryan, but he made sure to run outside of the ring to the doctor to let everyone know he had a hurt elbow.

    Kinda interesting that for all the crap he gets, when it came time to put someone over, HHH usually did it with mustard on top.

    As for Orton, can anyone give examples of when he was pissed off? If anything, Orton is one of the guys who lost quite a few times in his career and never seemed too bothered about it.

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  101. Orton should be the second most important guy on the show, given the amount of time and effort they've spent getting him over, but he feels far more like a Dean Malenko than he does a Randy Savage.

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  102. I think he lost by submission in that one, maybe he didn't like that he was tapping out?

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  103. Something from New Japan:
    As Kazuchika Okada came out for his match against Tanahashi @WK 7, you could see in his face how pissed he was and that he was losing. No confidence at all. Totally breaking character.

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  104. TJ: Sean Waltman may be my new shoot interview favourite, even surpassing Cornette. He's got me laughing so much..!

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  105. Yeah, that talk about how he slapped his girlfriend and tried to kill himself was hilarious!

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  106. Well disregarding THOSE parts.

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  107. I know but the crowd chanting skinhead was strange

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  108. Didn't Bret always kiss the belt whenever he was set to lose it? I could be making this up.

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  109. Every last bit of this is after-the-fact justification. I don't believe for a second any of us could tell by a wrestler's- someone playing a TV character- body language, facial expressions, etc. if they're going to win or lose.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Robinson TilapiaJuly 1, 2015 at 5:52 AM

    Whenever "Leaping" Lanny Poffo read a poem, he'd lose. Can't get more obvious than that.

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  111. The Polish HammerJuly 1, 2015 at 6:12 AM

    Speaking of Orton, where's he been lately? I haven't seen him in weeks and I don't remember an injury angle taking him off TV for a while.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!July 1, 2015 at 6:26 AM

    Bret kissed the belt all the time before his title matches. If marriage to inanimate objects were legal, Bret and the winged belt would have grandkids today.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Tits and more tits

    ---> @@ <---

    I'm looking for a big woman with big tits
    I really want to play with them in my car
    It's my fantasy
    •do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers.

    ReplyDelete
  114. 99% certain it was the RAW after a PPV, because Scott couldn't make that PPV, but the actual system was only used in PPV reviews.

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  115. Wrestling is rarely that offensively bad in the WWE anymore, for better or worse.

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  116. I love how just about any subject about being remotely unproffesional adds another chapter to Bret fans vs Shawn fans.

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  117. Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

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  118. Oh it got me off the hook.

    ReplyDelete
  119. You've confused marriage with procreation but I'll accept this.

    ReplyDelete
  120. I think he's a victim of 'creative doesn't have anything for you'.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!July 1, 2015 at 7:13 AM

    I obviously meant that Bret was so in love with the belt that he married, then procreated with it.


    Come on, Shelly.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Never quite got over your mom, huh?

    ReplyDelete
  123. I think there were other things going on there besides losing. That match is a study in body language between him and Benoit.

    ReplyDelete
  124. I only remember him wearing white boots at Mania XX and Backlash 04. 2003 was when he went through that weird phase of wearing red/blue/purple boots and trunks

    ReplyDelete
  125. ✣☯✤✥☯❋ . if you, thought Gloria `s posting is surprising...♛♛♛♛ I just got a gorgeous volvo when I got my check for $4854 this-last/4 weeks and a little over ten thousand last-month . it's realy my favourite job I have ever had ✯✯✯✯. I began this 9-months ago and straight away began to bring home at least $69, per-hour .

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    ReplyDelete
  126. ✣☯✤✥☯❋ . if you, thought Gloria `s posting is surprising...♛♛♛♛ I just got a gorgeous volvo when I got my check for $4854 this-last/4 weeks and a little over ten thousand last-month . it's realy my favourite job I have ever had ✯✯✯✯. I began this 9-months ago and straight away began to bring home at least $69, per-hour .

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    ReplyDelete
  127. That DID give us the awesome "Viva la Go Fuck Yourself" gif

    ReplyDelete
  128. JBL had an epic "I can't believe I have to put this guy over" face when he was forced to job to the Blue Meanie as punishment for "One Night Stand." He had a much different look on his face after Stevie clocked him with a chair.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJuly 1, 2015 at 7:36 AM

    Whooooooooooo

    ReplyDelete
  130. Fat, Ugly Inner-City SweathogJuly 1, 2015 at 7:37 AM

    Get some, Al

    ReplyDelete
  131. Twitter says that he was on vacation with his girlfriend

    ReplyDelete
  132. Flair in his retirement match against Michaels at WrestleMania is the only one I can really recall.

    ReplyDelete
  133. The cream didn't rise to the top?

    ReplyDelete
  134. he lost to Ziggler at TLC 2012 dammit!

    ReplyDelete
  135. The Polish HammerJuly 1, 2015 at 8:16 AM

    If creative has nothing for the guy who gets one of the top 3 loudest pops in the company, then creative ain't worth shit.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Weird side note on Orton. When he is amped about an angle or spot he gets REALLY excited.

    I've never seen someone jump that enthusiastically out of a cake. Or be that excited about knocking someone unconscious with a Christmas present.

    It's what makes Orton so frustrating. He's coasting 90% of the time and is boring as shit. But when he's trying he's really into it and energetic and exciting that 10% of the time.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Orton has a full blown meltdown when there is an "I am the table!" moment.

    ReplyDelete
  138. Oprah NoodlemantraJuly 1, 2015 at 8:43 AM

    True enough. It's more just average/inoffensive.

    But for some of those backstage segments... and that Lana/Dolph/Summer/Rusev one...

    ReplyDelete
  139. I can't hear enough stories of JBL getting his clock cleaned.

    ReplyDelete
  140. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!July 1, 2015 at 8:45 AM

    You seem to have a problem with this topic, and I'm not sure why.


    I don't see anywhere that says we can all tell at the moment when a guy is going to job because of his facial expressions. I mean, I guess Scott could've done a better job explaining that this is a conversation for after-the-fact, but still....you can look back on certain matches and some guys have a tell to them.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Oprah NoodlemantraJuly 1, 2015 at 8:46 AM

    Loved Roma/Orndorff's theme back then... but how that jobber was ever a Horsemen.

    But remember... Flair is jealous of Roma, well, maybe his pocketbook(?)

    ReplyDelete
  142. Austin would have gotten his win at Wrestlemania 14. I have no problem with not losing to Austin before then. ECW managed to make the Raven/Dreamer feud very interesting even though Raven always came out on top.

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  143. HHH always seemed really careful who he put over (and maybe he should) but I still can't get over how he didn't lay down for Booker T after he the build up was HHH blowing the dog whistle of racism. Kind of like Django Unchained, but in the end, the slave owners win

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  144. I think it has A LOT LESS to do with winning then it does with actually feeling involved & liking your gimmick at the moment.

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  145. Oprah NoodlemantraJuly 1, 2015 at 9:05 AM

    Swear it's a Raw.

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  146. A good example of this was his promo during the "Ascension ceremony" with Cena. He showed a lot of fire there.

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  147. Cena does an excellent job of keeping a straight face when its time to do a job. ie The Owens match and especially Punk at MITB '11.

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  148. The only people that should be blamed for being gassed is themselves. It puts alot of extra burden on their opponent and I'd be a little ticked too. case in point Scott Steiners awful display against trips in not one but two matches.

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  149. It's because after the fact justification is a logical fallacy. Thinking you've pinpointed how/when a guy is giving away that he's losing when you already know he lost is pretty silly.

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  150. Ella, was the $14 that Sweathog offered you the best money you've earned?

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  151. He did that before every title match, and it mad it seem like a big deal who won or lost.

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  153. Sounds like a pretty good show; I'd be really interested in seeing that Hillbilly Jim match. It's rad that he beat Pre-Akeem, but sucks what happened to Miniature Beaver afterwards.

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  154. I like seeing Bruno and Bret in the same match.

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