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Seth’s big matches

Hi Scott,
I'm struggling to enjoy Seth Rollins' world title matches, he has exceptional talent yet he seems to follow a very strict formula which has shown it self very clearly in the last 3 PPVs and I'm finding it hard to care about his offence and there seems to be little to no drama beyond the final 30 seconds.
Nothing seems to happen and then it's over, I keep waiting for the matches to get out of second gear. Am I alone in this or is he a little lacking in the big match environment at the moment?
Cheers.

Problem isn’t Seth, it’s the booking.  Since WM all his title matches have been booked so that the “third act” if you will is “What will Kane and the Stooges do to interfere?” and as a result there’s nowhere for the match to go.  The crowd and the wrestlers are all just killing time until the inevitable screwjob finish.  That’s probably why he’s such a bomb as champion.  Which, again, I don’t blame Seth at all for that. 

Comments

  1. This is what happens when your top heel has to play second fiddle to heel authority figures.

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  2. Them were the days. When men settled things like men. With sneak attacks from a position of trust 3 years later.

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  3. Shelton BenjaminJune 3, 2015 at 7:01 AM

    Millions of dollars?

    But according to a well known poster, Austin is basically homeless and on the run from Mike Rotundo

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  4. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 7:01 AM

    Indy Vanilla Midgets.


    I say we put the title on Kane and have him fight J&J in handicap matches for the next 6 months. After that, have Kane move over to Big Show to really tear down the house at Wrestlemania XXXII.

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  5. Shelton BenjaminJune 3, 2015 at 7:02 AM

    Like that hooker who gave me s discount

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  6. Would this be one of the same posters who assume to know every detail about Daniel Bryan's health and how if he doesn't permanently retire now he's risking becoming a second Dynamite Kid?

    Because there are "experts" on that around here too.

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  7. Well, he was the biggest star of them all. He had the D-X "Tank", which turned the tide in the Monday Night War, you know.

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  8. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 7:04 AM

    I can fully understand people wanting to see Austin in a ring again. But the man is 50.


    Really, it's time to start making some new megastars. Let these guys go out there and do what they can to get over and stop hindering the process with scripts and all that horseshit.

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  9. I always forget Arn was only 41 here, and 38 when he had to stop wrestling. Dude always looked older than that to me especially now that I'm around that age.

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  10. Shelton BenjaminJune 3, 2015 at 7:04 AM

    Not sure, but the poster U am thinking of seems to be overly concerned with whether his bros are mad

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  11. "Austin has been retired for over a decade now, so everyone needs to get over it and move on."


    Well it doesn't help when Austin himself brings it up as a possibility. I'm not saying the match will happen, but you'd have to think there's at least a possibility otherwise why would Austin and Heyman even touch the subject? They don't seem like the type of guys who care about working the marks or the IWC.

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  12. I think it is happening and has been agreed to already.

    The promo at the end of the podcast turned into something kind of out of place and odd, Heyman had been on the podcast before and he would bring it up and Austin wouldn't react like that. In fact Heyman asked him on an earlier Austin podcast and Austin laughed it off. There is a chance that maybe they were working the audience, but Austin had always been honest with those kind of things. Clearly the hype will have to grow, but it is a seed planted.

    It is a massive payday for Austin and they can smoke and mirrors a match for 20 minutes. If they did it with Sting they can do it with Austin no problem.

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  13. Heyman seems EXACTLY like that kind of guy.

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  14. Shelton BenjaminJune 3, 2015 at 7:05 AM

    Why bring it up?

    ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??

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  15. How the hell did I watch this shit back in the day?

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  16. Shelton BenjaminJune 3, 2015 at 7:07 AM

    He's a bomb as champ?

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  17. Given that Nash can't remember things very well in his interviews, I've just stopped believing anything he ever says.

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  18. Austin as Special Guest Referee in whatever the big main event is would be a good fit and at the same time protect his health.

    Rock v Brock with Austin as "the only man who can control this carnage" writes itself, really.

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  19. IKR? Seth is talented enough in the ring and on the stick to handle his own. Maybe not Ric Flair, but as the annoying heel who you pay to see get beat. With HHH in the way, it's guaranteed he'll always be overshadowed and not reach his potential.

    I didn't think Seth could handle it when they gave him the heel turn, but he's killing it and should be killing it on his own.

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  20. Agreed. Seth's best championship match was as challenger against Cena and Bork. He looked strong, composed, and smart. I've been saying this since his inception. He needs to win every once in a while without the nine guys at ringside. Have him cheat to win on Raw if you like, but win clean on a PPV. And not even clean necessarily. Dirty is actually fine if it's just him doing the dirty work.

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  21. "his company is in a creative free fall at the moment, but they seem to think they're going the right way and everyone else is crazy."

    I disagree with this last bit, just because this was basically it for Russo, at least until April. I imagine there was some kind of a meeting of higher ups about the guy right after this show and they decided enough was enough.

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  22. Building up new megastars takes time and it feels like we're already in the early stages of that. The Shield guys, Owens, The Ryback, Neville and even Rusev are coming along really nicely. It feels like we're in late 96/really early 97 where we're on the cusp of something big happening. Cena and Sheamus feel completely reinvigorated. Hell, even Big Show's looked motivated lately.

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  23. Habit, probably.


    I was in college, so I was able to carve out all kinds of free time to watch Raw, Smackdown, Nitro and Thunder.


    All that said, I stopped caring about this LONG before I stopped watching it. Somewhere around the time where Hogan and Flair switched heel and face roles despite ALL the buildup of Hollywood Hogan being evil and Flair reuniting the Horsemen I just gave up giving a shit.

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  24. Is Seth a bomb or the bomb as champ?

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  25. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 7:13 AM

    I can't disagree that they have a chance to make some big stars. Depends on if they really want to let them go into another gear, I guess.

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  26. WCW before Russo arrived was a clogged toilet, totally stagnant. However, all Russo managed to do was finish the flushing.

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  27. When he walked away from the Authority on Raw, I thought we might get a little spell of him kicking arses to prove he doesn't need help to do so.

    Was gutted when that walkout was forgotten about less than 3 hours later.

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  28. RAW ratings are tanking to multi-year lows.

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  29. Agreed, this is the closest we have been to an overhaul of the roster in a while.

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  30. Scott nailed it with his answer.

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  31. I'm amused that you are starting to go down the alphabet for your ratings. It also tells me your sanity is slipping too.

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  32. The Authority is the problem. It's been a problem. It will be a problem. They need to go away ASAP. It sucks the air out of the arena every single week. They are completely & totally useless, and bringing down the entire product.


    Triple H & Stephanie need to be moved to an old-school "WWF President" mode, where they only get involved in a storyline like once every few months. Let the talent shine.


    There is not a single person on Earth who has tuned into Raw, bought a ticket or purchased a PPV because they want to see Triple H or Stephanie talk.

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  33. We could probably get a "Texas Death Match" brawl around the stadium sort of duel, but we sure as hell wouldn't be counting along as Brock takes Austin to Suplex City.

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  34. Exactly. Now I'd be shocked if Austin wasn't there in some capacity. Hell. we might even get a stunner. But it will be to right some terrible interfering wrong. Not to fight Lesnar for no reason.

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  35. Can you really fill 200 minutes of air time without The Authority?

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  36. It's pretty bad. It's actually bad enough that the world champ walked down to Hunter's music on Raw.

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  37. If I never had to see Shawn Michaels or Steve Austin used in another fantasy booking scenario again, that would be delightful.

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  38. And all our "established" guys are willing to put over new talent. Cena, Big Show, Kane, even HHH are completely willing to job if it helps the future.

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  39. Seth could be killing it in a Cerebral Assassin-like role, where he uses his brains and evilness to put obstacles in the way of his opponents to wear them down, but when it was go time he was presented as being as good as anyone. That's what I loved about HHH back in the day. He could compete with the Rocks and the Austins, but he also added a layer of making it THAT much more difficult on top of it. He took every last advantage to put himself in a position to succeed, INCLUDING being one of the best wrestlers in the world.



    Seth could be killing it as a scumbag mastermind right now, but instead he's the whiny petulant child to daddy HHH and mommy Steph.

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  40. I get like that about New Dangerous Alliance fantasy booking.

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  41. I think we learned at Wrestlemania XX that Special Guest Referee Austin is A Very Bad Idea.


    A referee that overshadows the competitors is never a good thing.

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  42. Shawn Michaels and Steve Austin team up to take down The New Day!

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  43. Oh, Austin will be there and so will Michaels. It's the biggest Mania ever, and it's in Texas.

    But neither will be wrestling.

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  44. Depends on who is in the match and how good the match is. He did a good job in the Cell match with Batista and Undertaker and wasn't overshadowing at all.

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  45. Worst case scenario, you get HBK reffing the HHH/Taker HitC match.

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  46. Oh yeah, ridiculously over the top.

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  47. Upvote for the last sentence.


    What's really frustrating is this Authority things has been going on for TWO YEARS now with no sign of any kind of payoff coming in the next year. They could have ended this with Daniel Bryan beating Triple H but they didn't. It could have ended when The Shield was destroying Evolution but it didn't. It could have ended with Survivor Series but it didn't. It could have ended with Sting at WrestleMania but it didn't. This is starting to reach nWo levels of blue balling the fans for a payoff.

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  48. Someone did mention yesterday that ratings go down when the Authority isn't there.

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  49. Seriously "such a bomb"? In what way? The guy has been champion for 66 days and he's a bomb? How is he a bomb? TV ratings are the same, live gates are virtually the same. Business hasn't fallen off at all since he's been champion so in what way is this guy a "bomb". Seriously you're ridiculous.

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  50. It's obvious Seth is a transitional champion but the problem is it is taking too long for the WWE to transition the belt to who they want to be champion. There's a reason why during the old school WWWF/WWF era that transitional champions (with the obvious exception of Superstar Billy Graham) only held the belt for a month or less. The only problem is that the guy they want as champion (Roman Reigns) isn't the guy the fans would accept as champion, so they have to keep the belt on Seth Rollins until either the guy they want is accepted by the fans, they find someone else, or they figure out some way to keep things going where people would eventually accept the guy they want.


    Seth is Plan C but the WWE doesn't really have an idea of how to make Plan A work and there's no real Plan B.

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  51. If the worst we get is HHH/Taker in a cell, I'll be extremely happy.

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  52. In fact, there's a whole weird family dynamic to this whole thing. Daddy HHH and Mommy Steph have to manage the household, but sons Big Show, Kane, Seth, and Randy couldn't get along (but were always forced to). Uncles Stooges come in to try and help the boys to varying degrees of success.


    The problem with all of this is that the WORLD FUCKING CHAMPION is lost in the middle of it as a bit player.

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  53. Buffalo HopscotchJune 3, 2015 at 7:27 AM

    I remember really liking this show at the time it actually aired. I wonder what I'd think of it if I went back and watched it again.

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  54. I bet Xavier Woods' sell of a stunner or superkick would be Rock levels of entertaining.

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  55. 66 days he's been champion 66 days. Are you saying they should hot shot the title? They are clearly building to something with the Shield I'm not sure why all of the sudden thats not good enough for people. Ratings are the same, live gates are the same, I'm not sure why there is any rush to pull the title off of him. He's done just fine as a champion.

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  56. Well it hasn't been gangbusters either. His title reign will remembered as unmemorable which is probably worse than being a bomb.

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  57. One thing also to consider is that Rollins' offense is very limited as a heel versus him as a face. There is plenty of stuff in his arsenal that he isn't using due to being a heel. He'll be putting on much better matches, not saying the matches currently are bad, once he turns face.

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  58. If I'm doing my job I'd rather be unmemorable rather than memorably awful at it. Thats honestly a silly statement. "its worse to be average than it is to be all time horrible".

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  59. I'm really liking the Ambrose Reigns friendship deal. I have no idea why they didn't do it before now because it makes a ton of sense and humanizes the hell out of both characters.

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  60. That didn't have much to do with him though. The whole dynamic of that match was off due to the fans knowing both guys were leaving. Austin reffing Batista/Y2J in 2008 went pretty well.

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  61. No idea why they couldn't put the title on Ambrose. Protecting Seth Rollins? Outrageous.

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  62. Their ratings are just fine. The ratings for Monday were right at about four million people. The same as they are every week. I'm not sure where you get your numbers at but their big hour peaked at 4.1 million viewers and the most watched program on cable Monday Night.

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  63. Wrestling is so bad now and the personalities are so bad, that everyone keeps tossing out these Pie in the Sky Austin/Brock/Rock/HBK/Taker come back matches.

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  64. Pretty much. Putting the title back on Cena or Orton is hardly going to set the company on fire. Dean Ambrose is still on a non-entity as casual fans won't be flocking back to the product if he's champ. Roman has potential as he's definitely improving but still needs time. Even if the beloved Daniel Bryan was world champ, the results would be the same.

    It's a matter of doing engaging storylines that'll rope more people in but it's been this Authority nonsense for so long that fans are bored and tuning out.

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  65. Plus when the eventual turn happens, it'll be more impactful.

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  66. Yeah, it wasn't Austin's fault at all. The smark-heavy crowd knew Goldberg and Lesnar were both leaving.

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  67. Hey, that's your prerogative. Id much rather be remembered for being the worst at something then not to be remembered at all.

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  68. That is the exact same argument that had people convinced Austin/Punk would be at Wrestle mania for about 5 years in a row. All that was based on Austin cutting a promo on Punk while hyping a video game.

    Austin isn't coming back.

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  69. I would say you're in a very low minority but right on.

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  70. Clark O'BrienJune 3, 2015 at 7:33 AM

    HHH and Steph are the top heels, Rolllins is just their chosen representative.

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  71. You know what would make Seth Rollins' reign? If he's the one to kick Stephanie and HHH off TV and says that the Authority is HIS to control.

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  72. "my problem with all of this" * FTFY

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  73. Smark heavy, nothing. Kayfabe aside, everyone knew they were both leaving.

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  74. And you know that will never happen.

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  75. Sting already did that. They returned 2 weeks later.

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  76. I don't think he's turning face for quite a while.

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  77. Your name should be negativenellyfiance!

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  78. LOL, that would probably turn him face.

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  79. That's actually a good idea. Just steal the exact story of the original HHH takes over DX role.

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  80. Even if that did happen I'm not sure how that makes him not a bomb champion. Its not going to improve or decline business at all doing that so as Heyman said wheres the money.

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  81. Remember that one time the Authority was finally defeated once and for all and it ended up just being a cover for their Christmas vacation? Good times...

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  82. I think it could be more of a start. Seth becomes top heel without his mom and dad and maybe builds his own stable of guys. Then you have the plucky babyface (whoever he may be) going through Seth's cronies on his way to his title shot.

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  83. God forbid any heel be allowed to shine and look strong without the direct or indirect aid of HHH & Stephanie.

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  84. Well if they are going to do a Triple H/Seth Rollins match down the line, who would be the face?

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  85. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 7:37 AM

    Everyone on here is voicing an opinion. You don't have to continually tell us that we're stating an opinion. It's pretty well known considering the topics. Why don't you state your own opinion on the subject instead of telling us all how wrong we all are all the time?


    You can have a differing opinion and not be a total dickhead about it.

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  86. God keep Kevin Owens away from HHH and Stephanie...

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  87. Austin did the same thing with Punk and Hogan and those never went anyehereanywhere. He enjoys cutting promos and playing to the crowd. People are making Mt. Everest out of a molehill.

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  88. I'm not saying that at all. I actually like the story I think they are trying to tell but I am saying that reason there is no drama in Seth Rollins's matches is because we think we know where it is going, thus when he faces someone like say, Randy Orton, we know the Authority and the stooges are going to protect the title.


    Seth was put in a tough spot because ideally I think the WWE wanted Roman Reigns to beat him at the special event after Wrestlemania but no one would have accepted that.

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  89. Seth vs HHH with Seth going over clean as a heel? I'd go for it

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  90. as you saw by the crowd on the network special that was suppose to be a house show John Cena is still the driving force on the house show market and their ticket sales.

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  91. Ratings patterns disagree with your last statement, unfortunately.

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  92. That's not a reason *not* to do it, it's worth a shot. It might make Seth stronger.

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  93. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 7:39 AM

    That would just turn him face.

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  94. Also, isn't this Ambrose stealing the WWE title leading to a ladder match at the PPV the same exact thing they did with the IC title before Mania?

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  95. I'm just going with "troll" and will wait for the eventual ban. In the meantime, I will be no-selling.

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  96. It might not even be a match. Maybe an in-ring segment where the Authority just turns on HHH and lays him out.

    Yeah, I know that's a pipe dream as HHH would never let himself be so weak. And if he did, you know he would wreak a vengeance a few months later that would be on par with his burial of Test.

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  97. I disagree but right on. People here may be tired of the Authority but there is plenty left for them to do.

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  98. Exactly the same happened last time Orton was champ. It's all in the booking. And Scott's right, attaching a guaranteed interference to title matches ensures the matches themselves have little drama. Seth was the company's MVP last year and is among the most talented workers on the rosters.

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  99. hes a bomb bc right now the US title has triple the heat as the wwe title matches.

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  100. Or the MITB briefcase before September.

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  101. Why does Seth need to look stronger? There is no evidence that him looking stronger will increase or decrease business. So why not keep him as is. People on here want him to look stronger but the majority of people probably hate him more because he's a whiny bitch that they want to see get his in the end.

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  102. I don't do opinions, I do fact-judgments.

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  103. Who said there would be a Rollins/HHH match?

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  104. KICK HIS ASS, SEABASS!

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  105. Not if its done right.

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  106. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 7:42 AM

    I think I've gotten to that point now. The no-sell sounds like the right play.

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  107. I'm not seeing the problem with the matches. WM was a pretty fun match with one of the best finishes I've ever seen. ER was a solid if unspectacular match. The Payback 4-way was really, really good. I really liked the Ambrose match.

    This feels like complaining just to complain.

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  108. There was interference in nearly every match of the Attitude Era and 6,7,8 million people were turning in every week for that "very little drama".

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  109. I don't think it's a crazy wild eyed theory to suppose that stronger champions do better business than weak champions.

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  110. Who are these people that like to hear Triple H and Stephanie yak for 15-20 minutes every Monday night? I'm sure they're out there b/c like you said, the ratings bear it out, but I'd like to know what's enjoyable about listening to corporate suits ramble on just to set up a meaningless tag-team match at the end of the show.

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  111. Austin has said himself a thousand times that his neck is fine. He's been retired for a decade and he still works out regularly in the gym. He's probably in better shape and less pain than he's ever been in. He might not be able to take a dozen suplexes, but he's physically capable of working a match. Hell, he's even gone so far to say that he could easily come back and work a full time schedule for a year or two if he wanted.


    As for the money....sometimes it's not about that. Sure, he'll want to be paid, but Austin loves the business and he's only human. There has to be a part of him that wants to maybe have one more match, especially in his home state in front of 100,000 people. Who wouldn't be attracted to that idea? Especially since you know Vince would back a Brinks truck up to his house to make it happen.


    I'm not saying it's going to happen. But it's not the ridiculous far-fetched impossibility that some people want to believe it is.


    If it's ever going to happen, WM32 will be the time. If it doesn't happen at WM32, then yeah, I don't think it ever will. But it's now or never.

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  112. Buffalo HopscotchJune 3, 2015 at 7:43 AM

    Plus he can still come across like a whiny douche by threatening to call HHH and Steph in to fix any issues that he comes across and when they actually do come in and the big babyface overcomes a stronger Rollins AND HHH and Steph it's all the more of a victory.

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  113. The only things wrong with Seth right now are that he plays second fiddle to Steph/HHH and they took away his awesome finisher. Neither of which are his fault.

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  114. It is I love where this is going. Seth is being a whiny bitch hiding behind Kane, Big Show, Steph and Triple H being "groomed" as the next guy. Meanwhile Ambrose and Reigns his former running buddies are going to run through anybody and everybody to get at him ideally watching each others backs in the process. Its an awesome storyline.

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  115. Ambrose did not deserve a title shot, he has had what one ppv win in the past year?? maybe 2? Also Bray Wyatt of all ppl made him his BITCH!

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  116. I haven't disliked the matches, but I do agree with Scott in that everyone is waiting for Kane or J&J to interfere, so it's like nothing that happens before that point means shit.

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  117. Buffalo HopscotchJune 3, 2015 at 7:44 AM

    I'm surprised they let him use that crazy twisty splash move from the top rope. I like that he has a super finisher type move, but you'd think they'd ditch the spectacular moves out.

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  118. You'd think though that if he had that itch to scratch to get back in the ring, he would have done it by now. It's been 12 years now.

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  119. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 7:45 AM

    Like Bob Uecker. He is universally known for being a terrible batter, but it led to him being well known and making a second and third career from it.

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  120. It was this way for a thousand Steve Austin matches in 1998 whats the difference?

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  121. I think from Vince all the way down to the level above the actual workers consider the daughter and son in law the real draws of RAW.

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  122. he did get the pedigree rub from hhh though. I thought no wreslter would EVER be allowed to do it ever again after trips.

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  123. I think Seth could manage it in such a smarmy unlikeable way as to stay heel.

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  124. "Yeah but they can't do anything right" I'm sure will be a response to that. And then I'll ask why they're watching something they have no faith in the people writing it to entertain them. We'll get off on a tangent and I'll be a troll. Hopefully I saved someone some time.

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  125. It was irritating as hell then too.

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  126. Austin was a different animal, though. He could have live-shat on Vince's face on RAW and it would be a ratings bonanza.

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  127. Buffalo HopscotchJune 3, 2015 at 7:46 AM

    I don't mind him using the Pedigree at all. Much better looking than the Curb Stomp (though I wish he could keep it as a super badass finisher since everyone kicks out of everyone's finishers nowadays)

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  128. The fewer chances WWE has to bring back old talent to spike ratings and buyrates, the better. It will get them off their fat duffs and be forced to make new stars.

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  129. I really hope Owens turns into the heel that gets garbage hucked at him and is cheered by nobody, even in smark towns.

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  130. So who is Daniel wrestling next week? ;-)

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  131. Thank goodness he's not a cool heel.

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  132. Ric Flair was not a strong champion. Dude had his boys interfering all the time he did ok for himself. Of course now you'll tell me that Ric Flair was still a strong champion even though he'd have his stable beat them up before hand, beat them up during, beat them up after and spend the entire match running away from his opponent and taking cheap shots and usually cheating to win. But still dominant right?

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  133. Whether or not Kane interferes is not really the same thing.

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  134. The difference is that there was an unexpected vibe to it in the Attitude era. An unknown element of who and why behind the interference.

    As opposed to now where they just about promise that the same kind of interference for the same reasons will happen.

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  135. Are you kidding? Since HHH doesn't wrestle full time, he can still be involved vicariously with HIS finisher being used by HIS champion.

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  136. Ric Flair is an outlier. Flair was a huge name for a decade before he reached the point where he had to cheat to win all the time. During *that* era, anyway, NWA business fell off a cliff. Dusty finishes and a weak champion.

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  137. Yep. It always centers on Kane.

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  138. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 7:51 AM

    You make a good point. Seth does have the douchebag thing down. Hell, he might turn HHH face in the process.

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  139. Why not? It certainly is. The point was people are waiting for someone to interfere in the match so there is no drama. That was the point you made. People interfered in nearly every fucking match in the WWE for about three years especially the title matches and people cared a lot. Not to mention Kane is still over like it or not. When it looked like he was going to turn on Seth at ER people were marking hard for that at the show it got a big reaction.

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  140. Steph'd have just disappear though. There's no way she could get face heat out of it

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  141. So essentially -- going back to a thread from earlier in the week -- Cena is Hogan and the Shield are the Ultimate Warrior.

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  142. It might have been irritating but my point is it has no bearing on drama. People are still interested in it and Kane is still over much to the dismay of this blog.

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  143. I think you mean "such a bomb-ass champion"!!

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  144. Didn't Randy Orton do it to Seth first?

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  145. There was an unknown vibe that it would be some version of Vince McMahon and whatever cronies he had that week interfering in the match? Must have been watching two different shows back then. Looking back at RAW in 98 I think every episode ending the same damn way or atleast just as similar as todays RAWS end.

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  146. Roman Reigns calling him possibly "the worst champion ever" probably isn't helping.

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  147. I'm ad it took this long for a "HHH and Steph are EVIL" post. This place needs to step up its game.

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  148. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 7:55 AM

    It would be definitely be much more difficult for her, one would think.

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  149. He hyped a video game. There was a purpose for that.


    This time it was a hype of a match. Big difference.

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  150. I wasn't saying there is no drama outright, I said the matches themselves (the bits before the interference) have little drama.

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  151. "I'm sure you already know the story of what's going to happen to the World Title situation in the next few days. Tank Abbott was Russo's big idea to get the World Title, straight off a feud with Doug Dillinger and Jerry Flynn."

    C'mon bro, you aren't thinking of the big picture! People will see the results of Souled Out and think "Tank Abbott is the WCW Champion? Bro, I gotta tune into Nitro to see what happens because he'll probably lose the title!" I'm tellin' ya, anything could happen.

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  152. He's such a bomb as champion?


    Huh, that's news to me

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  153. Flair was cheating to win by 85 the Horsemen were damn near formed for that purpose. So yeah again Flair did ok for himself as a weak ass champion who needed interference. Honky with the IC title was a huge draw as a "weak" champion.

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  154. And thats fair personally thats more to just the in ring style the company produces more than anything else.

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  155. Stick him in a tag match and let his partner take the bumps. Problem solved.

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  156. "I did it! I got rid of the Authority! ME! SETH ROLLINS! Not Roman Reigns, not Sting, not Dolph Ziggler, ME. ME ME ME ME." Oh it's so annoying already.

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  157. Stephanie referenced it Monday night. Dean Ambrose likes to steal things. If somebody else stole the belt, yes it's tired. But Dean Ambrose steals belts. So it works.

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  158. Yeah I think that statement was 100 percent wrong. The guy hasn't set the world on fire no doubt but there is a HUGE difference between average and a bomb.

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  159. I generally enjoy his matches, until Kane etc get involved. So actually it's the last 30 seconds which ruin it, not everything before

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  160. I was kind of surprised that he got away with the Curb Stomp as long as he did. I always thought that was a reference to American History X, which isn't necessarily an association you'd want.

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  161. Even the Rock played the cowardly heel during his IC champ run and the Corporate champ run.

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  162. I've been re watching all the 98 PPVs and the interference was plentiful. But it did come from varied directions and with lasting consequences. Lots of surprises and status quo changes for all but Vince and Austin. The difference with now is that the status quo isn't really affected at all by the interference.

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  163. Isn't that like saying that isn't Vince McMahon trying to screw Steve Austin out of the WWF Title the same exact thing they did the month before and the month before that? Isn't there also the argument that they are never consistent with characters? I don't see anything wrong with any of it.

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  164. I think they're getting slightly better at balancing the workrate and angles. Ambrose/Rollins had a great match on Raw a few weeks ago, EC's match was more about the ongoing angle, that's fine. Owens/Cena just had a great wrestling match, so I'm happy for the next one to just further the story. And, much as we wish it as fans, workers can't guarantee great matches.

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  165. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 8:02 AM

    Gotta say -- that's so simple and perfect.

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  166. Right that may be but I feel like that is way off of base of your original argument. It went from "nobody cares because they know someone is going to interfere" to "there are no lasting effects of the interference". I'm not even sure I could agree that there was lasting effects back then. Nothing ever really changed in the overall main event storyline. Vince tries to screw Austin, Austin finds a way to overcome, Vince tries again in a different way, etc. Agree to disagree. The entire vibe of the show was different in 98. It was as you said unpredictable, anything could happen. However thats more than just interference thats booking, thats characters, thats the pacing of the show, all things that aren't there today.

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  167. I think that's kind of Scott's point. The best matches are somewhat 'booked backwards' where the finish comes naturally and logically from what has happened during the match. Since we all know the match will end in interference, it doesn't give you a focal point to work the match towards.

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  168. I think Brock & Goldberg both deciding to be a couple of slugs in the ring that night certainly didn't help matters. It should have been amazing. It should have been a moment I'd always remember as a fan... Brock, OUR GUY, sending Goldberg packing, but carrying him at the same time was going to be great.


    Then Brock decided to do nothing... for the entire match, and Goldberg was no ring general by any means.

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  169. The Rollins/Ambrose ladder match will be fun... until Kane shows up and screws Ambrose. Oops, forgot to say "spoiler alert."

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  170. Yeah I forgot about him he was the biggest coward of them all hiding behind an entire "corporation' and getting the WWE handed to him and then avoiding Austin for five months after that. Not only was that huge business but it helped made Rock into a giant star as well.

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  171. I just said Flair is an outlier. You can't judge based on him. His charisma and personality is so strong he survived the worst booking of anyone in history. Just like Rock could get away with doing jobs that other people couldn't. WWE past is littered with champions who were booked weak and thus didn't draw. Guys like Flair and Rock, they could take defeats and bad booking that others couldn't.

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  172. I agree. I don't see any problem with Rollins run so far. People say he isn't booked strongly but he's not a monster heel like Brock. Most heel champions are booked the same exact way. The matches he had have been pretty decent and the storyline with the Authority isn't bad.He's their chosen champion and the spoiled brat behavior makes you want to see him lose which of course he will eventually. The Dusty finish from Sunday actually worked but it's not something they should make a habit of doing.

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  173. I wasn't aware that was really a plan.

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  174. Yeah was referring more to the e-mailer's point that there's "no drama beyond the last 30 seconds". I actually think the excitement/drama is everything before the last 30 seconds as Rollins' offence is generally exciting

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  175. You didn't expect Vince to interfere in every single Austin PPV match. With Kane, you expect him to interfere in every single Rollins PPV match

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  176. I don't think they wanted that at all. You really believe they didn't pull the trigger on Roman Reigns at Wrestlemania the biggest night of the year but they were going to have him win the title at Extreme Rules? I don't think that was a plan ever. I think they recognized Roman wasn't ready, they made an audible and went with it. Its well documented that Trips LOVES Seth and that Seth has been his boy since he was in NXT. I'm very sure that this championship reign is in it for the long haul. I'd be shocked if he loses it at Summerslam even though everyone here has Brock vs. Seth booked for the ppv main event already.

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  177. or maybe you are just a little crybaby

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  178. Ok, you win. Austin/Brock is set in stone, and the only question is where it will fit it in with Undertaker/Sting and Hogan's match (probably against Rusev).

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  179. You'll be waiting a long time pal. I'm the voice of reason around this place. I keep all you nutjobs in line.

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  180. yeah, I think the nWo had a certain type of finish, which was just the troops all running in and a DQ. WWF tended to have pinfall finishes in all their main events, and there were a lot of people involved in the main angle back then.

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  181. That doesn't make somebody a bomb. One of the top five biggest stars in the history of this business is holding that title its going to have some heat.

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  182. And what did that do? It killed Flair's drawing power and it killed the title

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  183. Austin/Brock no doubt fills a100,000 seats but then the match itself would suck ass. I.can se Austin maybe getting involved at Wrestlemania some kind of way but not in a wrestling capacity.

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  184. So then Seth should be a horrible bomb champion so he can become a loveable commentator and make a career out of that? K....

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  185. He probably be back in NXT next month and to the indies next year

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  186. So basically every champion that was ever week that was successful doesn't count despite the fact that they were weak may have played just as much of a part in their success as it not playing a role in someone's reign that was unsuccessful.

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  187. He is not turning face

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  188. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 8:14 AM

    I didn't say he was.

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  189. Good because he is not

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  190. No, not "basically every champion". The Rock and Ric Flair. I don't think it's controversial to say that those two survived bad booking or weak booking because they possessed a charisma far above anyone that exists today.

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  191. So, the chicken shit heel. Good for a midcard act, but not good for the face of the company.

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  192. BETTER THAN A LUNATIC FRINGE MAGGLE

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  193. I disagree, Seth Rollins is doing fine, people on this blog tend to overreact to anything

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  194. Belee_Matt!_INDEED!!!June 3, 2015 at 8:16 AM

    Cool story, bro.

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  195. Flair survived, but it crushed his drawing power

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  196. People didn't mind during the attitude era

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  197. I would Cena is still the face of the company

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