Really? That's the main event for bound for glory?
I don't understand TNA right now. Why have your world title change hands at a TV taping airing after the PPV? It just feels like they're saying the PPV is totally unimportant, so why spend money on it? I dunno...I hope TNA can right the ship and get on track. The more promotions, the better for everyone.
Obviously the buyrate is lower. People with the network don't buy the ppvs anymore.
Rules say the guy must have 20 matches. I don't think brock has 20 ufc/wwe matches combined in the last 10 years.
VIKING SPACE LORD BROCK LESNAR is at numbers 1-237.
Well yeah, but that is not a bad buyrate number though.
I can no longer tell if that's a good buyrate or not.
Its a Japan show, what else were you expecting?
If they did just about half of last year's number adding in the Network factor, I think that is a pretty solid number, no?
Kinda amazing to see how much shine Eddie and Benoit were getting on these early Nitro shows.
This was discussed heavily in the Friday night thread. While it's good for the careers of indy guys to see their name on this list, people who don't follow the indy scene have to wonder how far a guy named Cheeseburger will actually get.
I guess? Technically WM 30 had the most viewers ever when you factor in buyrates and network subs. But it seems flimsy to me,
''Notable moment here, as Eric points out that “the other guys” are showing a commercial right now, so we should stay here. That’s pretty genius.''And it would have been even better if they had a match or something instead.
I presume that's a global number?
A lot of guys are not even coming over to Japan for the show. Meltzer reported that Lashley, Roode, The Wolves, Gail Kim, and Taryn Terrell are not being used for the show
Does anyone have the numbers on the revenue split between PPV Provider / Cable Company / WWE? We can do some fuzzy math here and figure out how much they 'make' per PPV 'Buy' that way, right?
"Why Spend Money On It?" has been the official TNA PPV tagline for many years now.
Does anyone know what percentage of PPV money WWE gets? That would go a long way in determining how good a buyrate is.
Scott, the 9/25 Nitro is back in the archives, AND they've renumbered the Nitros starting with #1! Crazy developments.
It's a nonsense main event, but it'll probably be the best wrestling show they put on all year.
I wonder if the people running the Network stopped adding Raws from this time because you STILL had to watch the weekend shows to catch many major storyline developments, whereas with these Nitros, if you miss the weekend shows between now and Starrcade, the only thing you really miss is Bobby Heenan "selling" WCW Main Event to Sonny Onoo...
Is Eric just sitting watching Raw while this show is going on? No wonder he sucked at play by play.
In their defense, it is the only match that has had any build, and Storm seems to be killing it in the role he's playing.
They got those guys pretty over. Then punished the fans for caring for the next two years by utterly wasting them.
I'm both happy and upset about Santino at the same time.
It's actually Barack Lesnar now. According to Heyman.
One of those times when you actually need a WWE name generator.
Also, any chance of a WW3 re-do or repost?
Anthony, I hope you are reading this. I know you aren't. But it needs to be said. I admire the hell out of you. It takes a lot of guts and determination to try and make a career in professional wrestling. But you did it. You took that chance in your mid-20s and became very successful doing it. You've given the fans a lot of memorable moments and make good bank doing. You'll have stories and memories that dwarf almost anyone elses. Please, please don't come back. A man like you clearly can be successful in many things as long as you put your mind to it. There is nothing for you in wrestling anymore. please dear God please stay away until an old school Raw 6 or 7 years from now. Please.
The funny part of this was that it took me, starting at the bottom of the list, all the way to Tommy Dreamer at number 300 before I actually recognized a single name. When the PWI 500 first started, I recognized every single guy on the list. Oh well.
They didn't start wasting them until 99. Up until then, they were used pretty well by WCW.
The Main event features a fat ex WWE midcarder; an ancient former star; a fat cowboy that looks more and more like Michael Hayes; and a guy many wrestling fans probably have never heard of.What an embarrassment.
Bloody hell. What a show. Disorderly Conduct, Texas Hangmen... I know they couldn't go angle heavy with the taped format, but good lord.
It's a main event in any high school gymnasium in America!
Bayless, any chance you may be able to review Hawkin's or Brodus' shoots?
Bayless hated the Brodus Clay shoot.
Who is Anthony?
Santino. I don't even want to call him by that. That part of his life should be over.
One day it will be cool to see a Mania in Japan. Especially if Itami makes it big.
I wonder which one because I'm curious about his YouShoot vid. Honestly, I just want to know if that drawing of AJ and Punk was the drawing that went around backstage
It all depends on how much they charge for PPVs (and how much their split is).Assuming $50 for a PPV, and the split being roughly the same, we can just use the base values:Pre-network:300,000 * $50 = $15,000,000Post-network:150,000 * $50 + 700,000 * $10 = $14,500,000The numbers there are pretty much on-par.The only one they actively LOST money on is Wrestlemania (since they get more viewers and normally charge $60 - $70), but they actually make more money in the month on the smaller PPVs, even assuming they lost 50% of their normal PPV buys.For Wrestlemania:Pre-network (2013 buyrate of about 1,050,000 and an average PPV cost of $65):1,050,000 * $65 = $68,250,000Post-network (using the reported numbers from WM 30):(690,000 * $65) + (670,000 * $10) = $51,550,000They REALLY screwed themselves with this $12 a month no-subscription plan, because they'll be losing a ton of money for the "big" PPVs, and won't be gaining any money for the "small" ones (they're going to lose a lot of the "guaranteed" $10-a-month subscribers, and only get a handful that pay the $12 for the PPV -- they get all of the problems of the Network model with none of the benefits)The interesting bit will come in a few months when we find out how many people didn't resubscribe.
As long as you don't mind watching at 3 in the morning like us long suffering UK crew have had to do
The place their having it at doesn't sound much different from one.
I highly doubt that much thought was out into it
It could sell out a small section of any baseball ground in the world!
So sad for TNA, and welcome to the BoD, 2 months late.
With all these shoots by recently released WWE wrestlers we should get a decent idea of how the current WWE work, at least as to how it pertains to the midcarders. Of course that's assuming those wrestlers aren't holding back for fear of not getting another job with the WWE.
Who is Santino? I am Santina!
So what kept Vince from driving to Atlanta and bitch slapping Bischoff. Vince says that he doesn't take much of this stuff personally but Bischoff is what Chappelle calls a "habitual line-stepper"
That's the biggest mystery isn't it?
Well, that's one more question than I would ever bother asking the guy.
Good for Gargano, good for Iron, but why not Cross?
I don't think Hawkins is holding back. He was piased when WWE.com gave Curtis Axel all the credit for training the Rock with his matches against Cena despite the fact that he did just as much, if not more
The YouShoot was horrible but I have the RF shoot that I have yet to watch. Looking to get the Hawkins, Bischoff, and teddy long shoots soon
Pretty crazy to see Cheeseburger on the list. The dude doesn't look like a wrestler at all.
I've been meaning to ask: why did you choose the name of one of the lesser Who stories as a username? Was CreaturefromthePit taken?
I don't get the sense that Curt Hawkins really cares if the WWE ever hires him again. Although I'm somewhat surprised he's so blunt, considering he runs a wrestling school and it would benefit his students if he stays on the WWE's good side.
No room for Lazy Fucks on this list! [/Baker]
No big reason! I watched all the Sylvestor McCoy stuff when I was a very little kid, and I downloaded the old shows a while ago and loved them in an awful way. It's McCoy's debut. And I like the name. I'm not a huge Who fan, I don't really watch the new stuff even though I love Peter Capaldi from other work, but I did love the "Classic Who" when I was younger.
Wait a minute.2. Randy Orton20. El TerribleWhy is Orton on the list twice?
Did they change it from when Sara Del Ray made the list with only like two matches against male opponents?
He claimed he never saw it then again, he wouldn't answer anything and denied everything or said he wasn't present of something too place, offering no insight. He looked bothered to even be there
He probably had someone in the back feed him the information.
They put Benoit and Melenko in the Horsemen then didn't do anything with them for six months.
To be fair the midcarders didn't get buried until late 1998. Although it was a segregation between them.
In hindsight - I really wish nWo had stayed on Nitro and the "Midcard guys got to roll on thunder"
I continue to be amazed at the relatively high regular PPV buyrates. Again, I feel like there's a large portion of the WWE fanbase who is just intimidated by the new technology of the Network. But at least they're still paying for the product.
I wonder how long that will continue with Michael Cole saying "You're an idiot if you pay $55!" every month.
I think you're taking this a lot more seriously than "Anthony" is. He made good money and was pretty popular for a comedy guy.
It should stop when Cable provides drop them.
I kinda feel that Michael Cole's been actively trying to make me feel like an idiot for many years already.
I'd be cool checking out a joint WWE/New Japan show live on the Network if they ever did such a thing.
It's amazing that Hogan actually agreed to let Sting "have him beat" here. This was still well in the "Hogan is indestructible" phase, but Sting had the visual win over him.
Santino retired... but SANTINA IS BACK would be pretty funny.
Yeah, I heard about that... And that's a risky strategy to say the least... Big difference between "You could save money if you tried it another way", and "You're an idiot".
I think I read somethere WWE actually gets LESS than 50% of the cut. Which is insane and can't possibly be right... or could it? I'd always heard it was 50%.
I don't know man, I think Benoit deserved better than a year long Sullivan feud, jobbing to Meng and being the bitch in the Booker T/Benoit/Finlay TV title rivalry.
I don't get why they don't offer tierd options for subscriptions: 1/month commitment: $19.996/month commitment: $12.99 12/month commitment: $9.99.
I don't follow TNA (cause you know, it's dead an all) but what the fuck is that main event? Tajiri is going to may event their biggest ppv of the year?
He would make more money if he came back. It's as simple as that. And I love the irony of someone named "No Cash" not understanding this.
Yeah, it would be perfect for a "special attraction" match, due to it being a Japan show, but... Main Event?? Reminds me of the "Special Main Event Match" between the Demon and The Wall.
I've been watching some Superstars/Action Zone's from 94ish, and I think the idea that Raw wasn't the number 1 show at this time is overstated. Both other shows show the same formula of one mid-card feature match, and an interminable procession of squash matches. Raw definitely has the edge on storyline development.
Since WWE made lots of budget cuts, making the Break Even WWE Network number lower... These suprisingly high PPV buyrates must be making them close to profitable again, right? I'd guess that the Brock/Cena rematch will pop a decent buyrate too, even if it's just 100K, that would be another huge amount of cash.
Pretty sure Brock didn't have enough matches in enough months to be eligible.
They could always do it early in the day in Japan, doing it'd affect attendence.
He could still have a spot as a manager and not Wrestler without damaging his body much and getting a paycheck.
It would work better than what they have in place, definitely. The problem with the $12.99 plan is that it doesn't give them any guaranteed income from month to month.I have a hunch that about 1/2 of the people subscribing to the network right now are only doing it for the PPV access (and even then, only for the "big 4"). So they're risking losing 350K subscribers a year who would rather pay $52 a year for the big 4 than $120 for the big 4 and a bunch of shows they won't watch.
I loved old-school Muta. Has anyone seen a recent Muta match? Does he still have it?
No, he's probably the most over legend alive in Japan so the crowd respects him.
Seeing Bray Wyatt at 6 is pretty depressing considering what has eventually happened to him.
At what point does it become redundant to do the hard sell if you're not longer actively selling a monthly PPV (which I presume is the eventual target)? It's great having Paul Heyman deliver brilliant promos but soon it won't be necessary. Are we soon going to be at a point where traditional wrestling build doesn't make sense?
Now the focus is on TV, PPV are paid Raws.
yeah you run the risk of having them simply stop buying rather than switching to the network. People don't like to be told they are stupid.
You're implying he wouldn't be indy fodder within a year. Woooo big money.
I'm having an imaginary heart to heart with a guy I never want to see again.
The difference is increasingly indistinguishable.
Seems to me like Santino has a WWE job for life, just based on his mic and comedy skills. That's just my opinion.
In 1997, did they include Hollywood Hogan, the WCW World Champion who barely wrestled? I remember he wasn't #1 at least. I was heavily concerned about this at the time, even though I knew better.
Orton is the man.
Review WCW Thun... the 9/25 Nitro, ninja.
Is Eric Young still TNA World Champion? Or did he hurt his shoulder and get stripped of the belt by Dixie Carter, after Dixie got slapped by ODB?
Hogan was #55.
Well, it did take them forever to release JTG so ya never know.
What's a manager? Are those still things?
What's with your obsession with money all the time?
His feud with Sullivan is what got him over.
Current champ is Bobby Lashley, who beat Young pretty cleanly for the belt.
From WM29 through SummerSlam 2013, WWE did 2.1M buys.From WM30 through SummerSlam 2014, WWE did 1.2M buys.However, it seems like when we add in a rolling count of about 690K subscribers paying $10 per month, they more than make up for PPV revenue lost, right? Or am I doing fuzzy math?
..... That's the goal of wrestling.... *fights urge to insult you*
See Zeb Colter, Lana, Paul Heyman
HE BEAT THE UNDERTAKER! What more do they want out of him?
19 other matches?
I think they do pay less for PPV's in non-US countries, which is what most of the current buys will be. PPV's are £14.95 here, which would be about $25, I think. So that's definitely less money coming in than a traditional US ppv buy.
Bischoff had a monitor under the table. Heenan tells the story of absentmindedly starting to commentate on an Owen Hart match once (remember the set was by the entrance, facing away from the ring).
I think if peoples main desire was to make money, there are a hell of a lot of better industries to go into than wrestling.
PPV companies take a cut between 45-60% off the top of PPV buys depending on carrier, contract, event and like 10 other things that you don't need to worry about. We'll assume that WWE gets $25 for each PPV buy, which is slightly generous given that there are other expenses before the producing company gets their cut but it makes math easier so let's just stick with that figure. Whereas WWE is getting all of the $10 for the network.For WM29 up to SS2013 we have 2.1M * $25 = 52.5MFor WE30 up to SS2014 we have 1.2M * $25 = 30M. Add to that the 5 months of network subscribers in that period (Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Aug) * $10 * 690k = $34.5M = 64.5M of total revenue.Now obviously the WWE network has additional costs involved (not the extra fixed costs allocated to the network that came from pre-existing costs but are accounted for as network fixed costs because corporate accounting puts the FUN in FUNgible), the subscriber base waxes and wanes and they have permanently expended goodwill from the company bottom line due to royally pissing off the cable companies and DirecTV so that's a minus we can't account for. On the other hand, talent had PPV bonuses in their contracts and took a haircut because most don't get anything out of the revenue so that's a plus we can't accurately account for either.So we'll call it even.
Could you really see Ric Flair or Hulk Hogan doing the ol' 9-to-5, though?-"Ric, we need those quarterly reports by the end of the day.""WOO! Gonna style, profile, kiss all the ladies!"-"... that's sexual harassment Ric.""FIRE ME? I'VE ALREADY QUIT. ABUSE OF POWER!"-"(sigh)... Hey, Terry?""The Hulkster's too busy saying his prayers and taking his vitamins to bother with those stinky, wart-infested promos, brother!"-"Fuck this job."
Brock laughs at math and rules.
I can't believe they did that many buys off the pay per view model, though I'd rather know the split between domestic buys and international buys for markets that might still lack the Network. If those are the domestic numbers only, it's kind of good in a sense that people are still willing to plop down $60 for a show that wasn't overly strong looking on paper (sans Brock-Cena), but it's also damning when people would rather not spend $60 over 6 months on the network.
Rybaxel vs. Sergeant Slaughter and Kofi Kingston.
Important threadjack: Shailene Woodley is all kinds of topless in her recent direct-to-VOD movie. I highly approve of this.
He needs to go "HHH's Office Invasion" on the PWI offices. I'm sure they can drop everybody a spot
The first half of that tan tag match sounds great.
The man who sucks? True.
There's some fan-cam footage of Devitt Finn Balor's NXT debut, with him and Itami giving the ascension a good walloping.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of8xmD8NQKs
Consistently having good to great matches certainly means he sucks.
Consistently having the same match every night means he's boring and he sucks because of this fact.
He doesn't have the same exact match. And do other wrestlers really have that different of a match on a nightly basis?
LOL @ Ishii in the mid-100's.. 15 spots ahead of part-time wrestler Gedo, mind you.. Ish
Worldwide star missing a step and worldwide midcarder also missing a step vs. "never quite made it" guy and fairly talented youngster:Kane and Billy Gunn vs. Dolph Ziggler/Kofi Kingston and Adrian Neville, IF Kane had trained Neville.
Devitt and Kenta as a tag team? FUCK YES.
Maybe his moveset bores the shit out of me. I think he sucks. It's all subjective, just like the list.
What poppycock. I shant designate another indignant minute contemplating this infernal list. Good day.
Yep, exactly. Even the darlings basically use the exact same moves every single time too. Orton is just fine.
Of the 8 guys wrestling that evening, 5 of them are dead. This is a depressing little factoid.
I will use this as my yearly reminder of the 2001 list (or 2000), where the brilliant minds there put Shane Mcmahon at #499, and RVD at #500. "GET IT GUYZ? THEY AREN'T GOOD CHAIN WRESTLERS, THEY ARE JUST SPOT MONKEYZ! WE ARE SO S-M-R-T!!"
Another interesting visual win: Diesel over Bret in 1994.
Watching road wild 98 on my balcony on a lap top. This is the first time I've ever really used the website for the network and I have to say its the worst possible way to watch the network as far as actually using it.
He's fine. Fine and boring.
Leno wrestling trumps all, however.
Opinion. not fact.
Randy Orton at #2 and John Cena at #3. I was expecting more outrage round these parts.
Yep, too much lag.
What's Ric Flair have to do with this discussion?
No one cares about PWI, this is why there is no uproar.
Not disagreeing with that either.
I'm disappointed. Hell Roman Reigns is at 7. I figured that'd wind Jobber up enough for some fun posts. But no!
Shane was so fun to watch. Especially 1999-2001. Easily one of my favorite performers of that era.
Uh, yeah. Who said it was fact? Read below. I just said all of this was subective. Read comments before posting, fucktard.
That Saturn vs raven vs kanyon 3 way match had lots of cool moves but it was still an unwatchable cluster fuck.Also putting Saturn over raven was a bad call looking bad. They should have built him back and Saturn was never going to amount to anything above a really good mid carder
Well that was a very mature answer. Incredible. lol
Wow that's actually a really strong buyrate considering 700k people were already getting the show. Cena\Lesnar definitely drew.
PWI has pretty much been irrelevant for about 17 years now.
Did you catch the gist? Read comments before responding. This is essential to you not sounding like a moron.
I do as well. Thank you celebritymoviearchive. Spectacular Now was the best of both worlds. Tits and it's a fantastic movie.
Yeah that has to be considered a huge success. I think it shows that a strong Lesnar is an attraction they can sell.
The whining too: "He's breaking my leg, Macho." And did they do a spot where Hogan grabbed the ropes only to have Sting break it and put him back in the hold - similar to the Angle KOR 02 finish or not?
Eddie Guerrero vs Pillman and pre 97 Hogan vs Sting. Man this is actually a really historic Nitro.
This is ridiculous: http://www.examiner.com/article/woman-who-weighs-350-lbs-claims-she-s-fat-because-gov-t-won-t-help-her
Like how they put up his indy name, only to switch it out a few seconds later, at least they are being honest with saying, "Here's the guy's original name, now here's the new one."
Right, but that was true pre-Network as well. Honestly, they were probably only pulling around $10 per buy average (factoring in providers, international issues, etc.) before the Network, so this is obviously a huge win, even if it's not as big of one as they'd set themselves to expect initially. Another note about the Network is that it's probably great for merch; in theory, a whole generation of new fans are buying Rock/Austin/HBK/Flair/Hogan merch now, that wouldn't have if they didn't have the Network.
This show was from Macon,Ga. I worked the local crew for this show. There was a monitor behind the announce booth that had Raw playing on it. We asked a production guy about it, and he said they always keep it on there. But my favorite memory of the show, was being asked by Mean Gene where the best place to get some Macon Pussy was.
And has been doing pretty well since.
Are you a wrestler then? Cause you sure do seem to act like you know the business so well. Have you been Kevin Nash this whole time?
And have Scott Steiner help him with the math.
Was watching "Wanted" the other day and WHAT IS CHRIS PRATT DOING HERE IN THE IMPACT ZONE?! I haven't seen this movie since I got into Parks & Rec years ago and of course, since he's blown up into a huge deal, and even for a guy with half of IMDB in his memory bank, I didn't even know he was in this movie as the douche McAvoy clocks with the keyboard.
He also look like a 14 years old
I was having one of the worst days of my life when I saw Wanted in theaters. It made me feel 100 percent better about everything. I love that movie so much.
I haven't seen the movie because I loved the comic so much. I tell people I love the comic so much and then they get mad, but I don't care. "This is me fucking you in the ass" is such a cool fucking thing.
I liked this era, but then Hogan returns to the red and yellow and does delusional booking to set up the Savage match in 1996 -- but by the time Hogan vs. Savage was to take place -- the waters had changed drastically.A lot of things changed drastically from November 1995 to March 1996 and again from March 1996 to July 1996.Of note: Hogan goes on vacation in March after the horrible cage match of doom. Luger is still a heel, but with Hogan gone and Savage livid with the whole Flair/Elizabeth feud arc from February -- they kind of started to set Luger as a full fledged face. In spite of doubts of this with match with Sting had Luger still show those shades of heel.As we know Luger turns heel, but because they were real life buddies -- They did the shades of grey angle of Sting and Luger being buddies -- the nWo kind of changed the plans if a Luger/Sting feud was in the cards. Luger was a full fledge baby face by June - although I was hoping of Luger showing up in American flag trunks and joining The Outsiders at BATB.As of June - Hogan was still getting face trailers - being more famous than any other wrestler - which is why we should cheer him, etc..As of June -- people expected Hogan returning to wrestle Nash. I wonder if Hogan having the pull allowed Nash and Hall to get some leverage they would not have had?
The above doesn't make sense.
I know. And I'll credit Colter for saving Swaggers career. But Heyman, the best manager far and away in the industry, couldn't do anything with Ceasaro, one of the most over guys on the roster. That's probably more to do with writing but my point is what the hell is Santino going to do for somebody as a manager? Best case scenario a mildly over comedy duo that gets really old really fast.Lana is a gimmick without zero inch of character depth which is fine but has a shelf life of maybe a year. I hope she does well with her eventual repackaging but the jury is still out on her in my opinion.
Blossom series finale airs on The Hub Wednesday. Also, Kennedy (the 6-year old who moves in when the dad marries the British woman) added me on facebook. I'm not bragging (breathe Kyle Fitta), I think that speaks to more how bad a stalker I am.
Wanted is based on a graphic novel that does sort of a Matrix / Fight club kind of thing about throwing off the shackles of your modern day society and embracing your inner asshole. It's insanely over the top and ribald and gross and there's a line "This is me, fucking you in the ass" (I think) that comes up at one point in the book and the line is so god damn cool I forgive the book for all it's silly awful grossness.
I know what Wanted is, thanks. I saw the movie.
The movie and the book are about as related as Edge and Christian are.
Yea, but the movie is still awesome. The Chris Pratt scene is GOAT. The final scene gets me every time.
So it is more a Wrestle-1 PPV than a TNA one
You want Brock ranked 141st? (quickly steps away from you)
I'd consider it about even or less than last year's event. Those 700k paid $9.99 for the event plus Network use, not the $49.99 or whatever the others paid on traditional PPV. It would take five Network subscriptions to equal one traditional PPV buy. (5 x $9.99 = roughly $49). So the Network subs would equal about 140,000 traditional buys. Add that to the overall traditional buys and you get 290,000 buys. Still not a bad number at all and a big indication that traditional WWE PPV is not dead at all.
Erm, so we're allowed to talk about spoilers now? Oh well. Wonder what they'll do with Steen now. I say throw him immediately into the Wyatts. Have him be Bray's "brother" and have him and Bray fight over control over the other two and turn Bray face in the process.
I got Michael Stoyanov contact high once.
Good for you sir. I assume she's being visited by her aunt flow right now?Oh, you mean the wrestling promotion. Got ya.
What do they base their rankings on? Skill? Drawing power?
He's on facebook too. Didn't add back yet though.
Shut up Meekin.
That's obviously a main event for the japanese audience
What in the blue hell are you talking about? RVD was in the 20's in 2000 and in the 50's in 2001. I don't think Shane had enough matches to be included in their criteria.
That was bullshit! Everyone in the goddamn locker room knew that Bret was the best there is, best there was and best there ever will be.
Muta is slowly taking control of things
The Winner and NEW World Wrestling Federation Champion CHEEESE BURRGGERRR!!It passes the Finkel Test.
Totally. Putting him over Taker was such a good move. You know, they should really consider riding the Lesnar as champ thing all the way to next Summerslam.