Saturday, November 8, 2014

Obvious smark observation



Am I the only who notices that when Cena isn't on Raw, Raw is better, more fun with longer matches and more coherent stories.  Conversely, doesn't the new stip for the Cena/Authority make it obvious that  Cena is winning to "keep him strong for Brock"?  So basically Orton gets to come in as saving face, and Cena will conquer the authority and no one but Cena and Orton will get "over".  Yay product!

Sent from my iPhone


Geez, where did this sudden anti-Cena backlash come from?  If they're not careful, people are gonna start booing the guy.  Maybe they should turn him heel?  

143 comments:

  1. Tactics like that don't really work anymore, though. Did you miss something big? Hey, look. It's on Youtube for about six hours before it gets blocked. Was there a big match? Did you miss it? Well, here's a replay of everything important that happened on RAW. Several times. It's not like when we miss a match like Sheamus vs. Rusev that we're missing a four star classic.

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  2. They will never turn Cena heel until he is no longer a childhood idol.

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  3. Robin Hood match after Nitro anyone?

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  4. I think the Raw overrun was a one-time thing where a planned title switch fell in line with the bad Network numbers. USA can't tolerate that for long, plus having important stuff happen at Monday 1130 EST probably isn't wise either.

    I really don't understand why Main Event is just a filler show.

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  5. I didn't find HHH/Steph taking Cena's spot in 20 segments to be better.

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  6. Plus watchig Live just isn't that big if a hook anymore I don't think. If they can figure out how to get ppl to the network beyond that then they will be set. Not sure how or what that'll be though. But after three hours of raw someone is going to see that match on the network? Can't imagine that would draw significant viewers

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  7. Just as a parallel, I think I found late 99 to 2001 so enjoyable because of Austin's absence. Just seemed fresher. Overexposure can kill even the most over act, no matter how talented.

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  8. Man, say what you want, emailer, but Orton's been tearing shit up on Raw lately. He's on fire. So of course he goes and shoots a stupid WWE movie when he's become a hit act again.

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  9. Yeah the "exclusive" title match aired last night on Smackdown.

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  10. They should have spent the Fall doing their own version of the G-1 climax across Raw, Main Event and Smackdown.

    They did do a Shield v Wyatts main event on Main Event after WrestleMania.

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  11. Team Cena isn't winning at SS.

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  12. He'll still be hot when he comes back.

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  13. The "sent from my iPhone" makes me regret buying Apple products. And is the "my" necessary? If you sent it from your brother's phone, would it say "sent from my brother's iPhone"?

    On topic, Raw was good because it was a hotshot: Vince appears with no hype (and the Authority stipulation was out of nowhere: why NOW evaluate them, and why decide their status in a match in which neither will likely involve), the Orton turn was given in three hours (it has been teased, but, had he not been leaving for WWE's own movie, should not have happened until right around the PPV), and Rusev was winning the US title should have been built up over more than three hours. So much HHH and Steph, while Rusev and Sheamus appeared both on Raw and on the Network part. Please explain how Ambrose completely forgetting Rollins is "more coherent" due to Cena's absence?

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  14. I really miss the 90s when I could watch the live Smackdown tapings off the C-Band satellite dish. Just the raw feed, matches, and no commentary. I even sent in a few reports.

    I would kill to see that on the Network Tuesday nights. There are a hundred reasons why they can't, but it would be wonderfully outside the box.

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  15. Because Bray is now messing with him? Dean "forgetting" Seth isn't really accurate either as they'll probably blow off their feud at Mania.

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  16. I said it when they announced it: they're trolling us. If we're lucky--IF--it'll be a Vince vs. Authority feud that they will stretch out to WrestleMania, with Lesnar being "their guy" and Vince backing Reigns or Cena or whoever. If we're unlucky then it's just Team Authority prevailing at Survivor Series, with the concept of them losing power never being mentioned again. With Lesnar off TV and Rollins being the company's top heel in-ring there's no way they're pulling the Authority from the program. Unless the plan is for HHH to suit up and return to regular action. Cuz he's the only star big enough to save the company you know...

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  17. Adam "Colorado" CurryNovember 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM

    The fact that Apple is a horrible company that makes shitty overpriced crap should make you regret it.

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  18. Vince has stated he doesn't want to be on television though. And I highly doubt HHH will never do more than wrestle once or twice a year.

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  19. So long as they don't do it every week I wouldn't think USA would complain. So long as they get their good final quarter hour rating and the artificially inflated overrun quarter. Start the hot match or angle, let it run 10 minutes over, finish it on the Network. It's not as if viewers are going to *not* watch RAW and just tune in to the Network to see... something--which they wouldn't know about if they weren't watching RAW already. The other theoretical benefit to this is viewers who don't have the Network tuning in to SmackDown to see what happened. If they don't overdo it it's a 3 network win. Theoretically.

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  20. Since they've eliminated the 6-month commitment, I suspect they'll go after a lot more "impulse buys" for the Network. I think alternating between important matches after Raw, along with things like ECW Week actually make a lot of sense here. Advertise the stuff a little during Raw and have that match/segment/show air immediately after, forcing fans to decide quickly if they want to drop the $9.99 to watch or not.


    The idea is that enough impulse buys can make up for folks who decide not to renew on a monthly basis. In addition, those impulse buyers might get lazy and forget to cancel their subscriptions like some folks do with Hulu and Netflix.

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  21. To play devil's advocate: The type of person who would want to see one more match/angle after watching 3 hours of RAW already is probably THE target audience for the network. So why not try it? So long as they don't overdo it, or in some way hurt RAW's ratings.

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  22. I doubt there were people at the USA network thumping their fists on boardroom tables going "dammit, that USA title match should have been on our TV!" If that were the case then how could WWE ever book a PPV? USA gets their 3+ hours so they should be happy. So long as RAW doesn't become like Nitro, where fans knew there was no point in watching the end of the show because EVERY one ended with an NWO run-in. Every few weeks, maybe once a month, having something run over onto the Network shouldn't be a problem.

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  23. Adam "Colorado" CurryNovember 8, 2014 at 2:39 PM

    I watched those the other day. Fucking rednecks...

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  24. Bingo. That's why Team Authority is winning. If Team Cena does win, expect the Authority to pull some kind of BS the next night on RAW to undo it. Even when the Authority loses, they win. It's what's Best For Business™.

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  25. "We're wrestling fans, we know the deal already and we're already preconditioned to put up with bullshit like the above without worrying about it overly."

    You know, I've tried explaining why I like wrestling to friends, and it never works.

    "Well, yeah, about 75% of it sucks. The acting, the matches... 75% of them blow. About another 15% is great entertainment. That last 10% -- man, that last 10% -- is where the magic is."

    If you watched a TV show or movie, and 75% of it sucked, you'd change the channel or leave the theater. But wrestling -- for some friggin' reason we'll put up with the shitty 75% for the 25% that works.

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  26. Probably right but should it be their target audience? I haven't studied it but while the concept of the network is very forward looking and unique, they format of it really isn't. I just don't think running their dull product relentlessly in it is the key. But then again I have no clue what buying trends are. I just know the current product doesn't interest me much so my viewing is all older content

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  27. Didn't make a ton of sense from a wrestling perspective, but it definitely did from the POV of a TV network. Guaranteeing a strong lead-in for a new show and exposing a captive audience to it. I assume that one came down from the Turner higher-ups.

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  28. I've thought a lot about this too -- and thank god for the internet and DVRs and such, because I've lost all of my patience for the bad stuff. I can't believe I ever used to sit through Bushwhackers matches.

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  29. Scoring 50 a game isn't terrible. They have been mediocre though.

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  30. I wish the internet had been more widespread in the 1980s because I bet people would have been having these EXACT same conversations about Hogan.

    The earliest posts from RSPW from 1990 indicate that people were totally sick of him way before 1995 when it REALLY started to show in the arenas. I guess the part that is different about Cena is that people have already been booing him in arenas for half a decade already.

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  31. Yeah but don't forget he wasn't nearly as overexposed then. He was rarely on tv and he actually showed real vulnerability in his feuds even though he rarely lost on tv. Plus Cena has been on top for like ten years. Hogan oddly enough wasn't even in the wwf for that long from his first title win to when he signed with wcw

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  32. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 2:57 PM

    Why doesn't Triple H wrestle more then once or twice a year anyway? I know it's been established that he is focusing more on the business aspect but would, let's say, 6 PPV's and 6 Raw main events, (and no house shows) really cut into that? He can still go in the ring and knowing Hunter's love of fitness I am sure he keeps himself in shape year round so I can't really see how it would be a problem.

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  33. Everything will be forgiven once it's revealed that Vince & Cena have been working together all along. You'll be rewatching the last 10 years of Cena on the Network with a whole different perspective!

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  34. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 2:59 PM

    I am still not totally over the trauma of seeing Earthquake squash him on the brother love show. I...I wrote a letter.

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  35. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 2:59 PM

    IT WAS ME SMARKS....IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!!!!

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  36. 8 months and there is still no "resume playback" feature on the network on most devices.

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  37. The sad thing is, the 75% rule applies when everything is going WELL (more of a global average). There've been time periods in all feds where things were significantly better (sadly too short), and when things have been much, much worse. But I'd guess 75% suckage is a fair average.

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  38. They could go the other way with it too: have something on the network before Raw starts to set something up that happens on the show. Like a battle royal to determine who gets a title shot in the main event of something.

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  39. Actually, doing a Network-only tournament wouldn't be a bad idea, like the BFG series. Don't supplant RAW, so as not to piss off USA, so no major "twists" (meaning nobody should turn during the shows), but things can happen that are then RECAPPED on Raw/Smackdown.

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  40. They've pretty much hit the ceiling for subscribers interested primarily in the vintage content. Sure there's probably some holding out for more, or obscure stuff to be added, but for the most part that tide of subscribers have come in. At this point it's fans of the newer content, and those who have issues involving the technology that they have to attract. The tech stuff is just a matter of time. That leaves focusing on making the new current product appealing.

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  41. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 3:15 PM

    I am going to throw this out there. Let's say that Austin never turn's heel at WM 17. Rock goes off to shoot a movie and HHH, (who had beaten Austin at No Way Out and was established at that point was maybe the best worker in the company) is the obvious first challenger in line. And lets say that Austin wins the feud with a boot and a stunner around KOTR or so, and then goes to to feud with...I don't know...say Kurt Angle, (Angle plays the heel but, again, is one of the best workers in the company.) And again Austin wins the feud. At any point during this or even a few months down the line does the backlash against Austin begin? Not arguing the point one way or another but it happened to Hogan and Cena...was Austin bulletproof enough to avoid it?

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  42. I like the cut of your jib, fella. Sounds good to me. They should also be using Main Event & Superstars to set up SmackDown if they aren't already.

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  43. Attitude era ppv's. Putting up with 2 hours of crap to get to the Austin match.

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  44. I guess he's enjoying the business aspect more than getting in the ring? Can't say I blame him.

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  45. It wouldn't surprise me to see them lose power officially at Mania all the same. They got beat and humiliated at 30.

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  46. I think folks were ready for an Austin heel turn, but to me it had more to do with the timing of the turn with the Invasion story. No one wants to see that storyline with Austin leading the WCW faction and it doesn't make sense for a heel Austin leading WWF either.

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  47. I doubt it. The only time they came close to turning on him was in late 99. He and Rock had a staredown and that crowd was firmly pro-Rock. If Austin didn't bow out for surgery there was a good chance of the fans turning him heel.

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  48. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 3:24 PM

    But he LOVED getting in the ring. Remember the Beautiful Day Video? He said, and I quote, "what I love most was taken away from me. This business getting in that ring was taken away before I was ready for it to be taken away" (and everyone forgets that he recovered from a torn quad AGAIN in 07)

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  49. I'm quoting a guy from the other wrestling forum I go to cause he made a good statement about both shows this week

    "Raw and Smackdown this week, to me, were examples of what I think well-intentioned people mean when they say they want a return to The Attitude Era.

    A PPV stipulation that has hilariously unrealistic implications, a bunch of segments with crazy non buff-guy-in-speedo characters who feel like characters and not just athletes, really good mic work and and a bunch of different characters at all levels who are performing and it not just feeling like everything is filler for the main event.

    I know this is largely due to the title not being in the picture and a lot of your top guys not competing (Cena, Orton, Reigns, Bryan), but I enjoyed this week's raw and smackdown far more than any in recent months that I can remember"

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  50. Guy is 45 remember. His body is probably telling him "Stop getting in the ring when you don't have to".

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  51. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 3:28 PM

    For the record I agree with you, though I honestly can't remember the reaction to Austin in 99 because I was a Triple H guy by then, and the only other thing I can remember outside of his work was the Rock and Sock stuff.

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  52. I really don't know who is going to win the Survivor Series match anymore. Before the stipulation I would have said the sure bet is for Orton to be the surprise member of Team Cena with he and Cena standing tall at the end. But getting rid of the Authority at this point would be a drastic change in direction - I don't see that happening yet.

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  53. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 3:31 PM

    They weren't thinking of the invasion at WM 17. It happened because to many guys got hurt, (ok mostly just Triple H and to a lesser extent Beniot) and they had to do something to keep interest up.

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  54. But they SHOULD have been thinking about the Invasion at WM 17--they knew that could be the biggest money making angle in company history. But they're losing the Rock and they turn their other big face heel. I know they wanted to keep WCW separate for a while, so I understand to an extent why they didn't think enough about the turn.


    Of course, the Austin turn is just the tip of the iceberg here. The Invasion could have worked even with Austin as a heel if they had done a better job treating folks like Booker T and (especially) DDP as credible talents.

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  55. "Wayne, if you're not careful, you're going to lose me."
    "I lost you three months ago! Are you mental!"

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  56. Ugh, I just threw up in my mouth a little visualizing Cena and Orton together with their arms raised in victory.

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  57. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 3:46 PM

    I don't know...would it? I mean WCW lost. Like it or not Booker T and DDP were lesser then Austin, Hunter, Beniot, Rock, Angle, Undertaker and Jericho. Even if they waited on it until The NWO were free from their contracts, the SECOND Hogan came back to the WWF, (as it was called at the time) people remembered him as a WWF guy...stands to reason they would have reacted the same way if he was part of an invasion or not. Goldberg would have been a great invasion leader but he didn't even come until 03 at which point fans would have lost interest in an invasion angle.

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  58. Am I the only person who like The Pacific more than Band of Brothers?

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  59. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 3:49 PM

    I am sorry that wrestling induces vomit on your part. It actually almost did for me once...when Warrior beat Hogan at WM VI. Of course I was 11 at the time

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  60. Over the Edge really stands out. That show put me to sleep but that main event was so kick-ass that you forgot all about it. As you say, WCW was the complete opposite. 2 hours of entertaining matches but those nWo-ized main events left you feeling like you were cheated out of something.

    For example, Starrcade 97. That show needed to do one thing for a thumbs up. They screwed it so badly that it automatically becomes a thumbs-down show. Superbrawl 98 was, imo, the best show of the era but another bs non-sensical main event just kills it.

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  61. Wasn't gonna happen as long as he was relatable and had the crowd What'ing everything. It would have been proto-Cena, with audible boos but still tons of merch moving and kids cheering him.

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  62. Dude, you know you cried like it was the end of Old Yeller when Linda took all of Hulk's money.

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  63. I took it as the complete opposite. The Survivor Series stipulation makes it obvious that the heels are going over, because they'll never in a million years pull the trigger on a world without heel authority figures. It's their fucking binky and it has been for the last 15+ years.


    Besides, it's not a big deal if Cena loses. He just shrugs his shoulders, comes out a night later, mugs for the camera, and acts like none of it happened and like none of it mattered.

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  64. Showed vulnerability? HA!! It means nothing if you 100% know that he'll just be 100% right after the guy hits his finisher. Hulk Up, baby!


    I also remember when Bossman handcuffed him to a guardrail on the Brother Love show, and beat him with his night stick for a good 5 minutes, only for Hogan to end the segment by chasing him away, while dragging the guard rail. (the Earthquake thing was just a rarity, since he was gone to shoot a movie)

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  65. That's (heavy sigh) what he do.

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  66. But there will just be a new Authority. The angle is never going away.

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  67. I again wonder what the alternative should be. Should he cry? should he quit wrestling because he lost? Should he whine and pout like a 4 year old because he lost? Most pro athletes just man up, accept the loss, and move on to the next fight. It's actually realistic.

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  68. If you think grunge is heavy (besides maybe aic) Id hate to see what you think about real heavy bands lol

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  69. He should sell it because that's how wrestling works.

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  70. Absolutely he did. I'm not saying he was vulnerable in the sense he was jobbing monthly or always out with a bad injury, but he wasn't superhuman all the time. His buddies would betray him, Guys like Andre, Bundy, orndorf, quake would get the better if him before his comeback. Whereas Cena rises above it all right away, hogan sold it first and then made ppl want to see his revenge. People would get sick of him today and all, but just conspiring to Cena he showed more flaws is all

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  71. lol, Cena shows 100 times more flaws than Hogan ever did, including actually doing clean losses. You're just making stuff up now.

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  72. Just an opinion based on my viewing. I stand by my comment and rise above your math

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  73. I've seen you make this exact comment before and I've seen people explain the alternative to you countless times so WOOO commence same tired argument for the sake of arguing!

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  74. He has very short attention span, since the last person to sneak attack him is Bray he can only think about him

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  75. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ziXBjCE1zks

    Not for Cena ;)

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  76. I actually agree. .. just like sports interviews where almost.everyone is like 'I just gotta take it one game at a time'

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  77. Yup, great points.

    Over The Edge is the perfect example -- it has one big, memorable moment right at the top of the card and everyone forgives and forgets. People would have done the same with Starrcade 1997.

    WCW should have skipped on signing Bret Hart and signed Pat Patterson instead to book that match.

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  78. It's too bad wrestling hasn't been more like sports for longer. Stone Cold's interviews would be "Well I just didn't execute my moves well enough. It came down to execution. But now I'm on to my next opponent." And he'd have been quickly fined and suspended(probably fired) the moment he stunned Vince the first time.

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  79. I cannot believe the WWF used to be able to book main event angles so compelling I could happily sit through matches featuring Mideon and Viscera leading into a lazy Goldust vs Jeff Jarrett IC angle.

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  80. That's sort of how I feel about WWE ppvs in 2012 that stopped me ever wanting to stay up or pay £14 for them.

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  81. might have a lot to do with you being younger and the whole direction being something new.

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  82. for a similar reason Smackdown is just a filler show.

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  83. Wrestling's closest analogy is the circus, which is why that works. You go to the circus because you want to see, say, the acrobats, but you also get the clowns, the animal acts, the fire eaters, the tumblers. It might not all appeal to you but if they hit enough of the segments of the audience then it generally means everyone goes home happy.


    That's why the three hour RAW is killing the product. They can satisfy a few portions of the audience for about 20-30 minutes at a time and find 2 hours of good stuff for everyone, but then there's still another hour of filler on top of THAT and everyone ends up unsatisfied overall.

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  84. Earthquake even beat the shit out of him at Summerslam. Watching Hogan lifted off the floor and choked while Bossman had to cut Earthquakes back to pieces with that ladder stool before he dropped him, Quake looked like a fucking monster.

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  85. Patrick BrandmeyerNovember 8, 2014 at 4:51 PM

    Do you hate children? Cena loves children and it sounds like you hate children.


    Also, Cena loves the troops. Do you hate the troops?

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  86. So Cena should love African tribal warlords for using child-soldiers.

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  87. Thought Notre Dame had that comeback. They were rolling for a while but the book is closed on that one.

    Let's see if A&M can finish blowing their lead!

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  88. Seriously though I can see why he is popular with Make a Wish, often I've thought "The LAST wrestler I want to see before I die is John Cena."

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  89. Virgil's Gimmick TableNovember 8, 2014 at 4:56 PM

    2014 everyone!

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  90. Patrick BrandmeyerNovember 8, 2014 at 4:57 PM

    And Cena hates cancer too, so clearly the original question-asker wants to see kids die of cancer. It's the only possible conclusion. #wwemindset

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  91. I'll probably skip the end of this game and watch Lucha Underground instead. Watching the Spanish version. I really need to find the English language one.

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  92. You can change the Apple signature.

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  93. There was also DX, Nation, The Rock, The Hart Foundation, Val Venis, and later Jericho, Angle and The Radicalz.. The Attitude Era had a small rough patch in 1999 but overall the roster was rather stacked. I'm so sick of this revisionist history on the Attitude Era.

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  94. Yes and yes. Well, at least I hate what the troops are ordered to do.


    I honestly do not like that Cena was largely involved in dragging WWE to do the Komen stuff. Fuck Susan G. Komen, it's a horrible scam.

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  95. I don't think you're going to get a lot of disagreement on 1997 and 2000 -- but 1998/1999 were a different story for me.

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  96. Yup, was the same problem with the three hour Nitro era too. The potential for lots of variety, but no matter how you cut it -- at least a solid hour of video packages and/or lame matches with WCW SN guys.

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  97. 1999 I can't argue with but 1998 Raw was wild fun stuff. Even though 99' Raw featured Billy Gunn in a serious singles push and Triple H's fist failed rocket push the show still had a sense of urgency and was still must see TV.

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  98. There was definitely a lot of fun TV, although for me personally most of it was still at the top of the card. There was a major shortage of great wrestling too, but I've never been a huge fan of the garbage-style brawling either, so YMMV.

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  99. I cannot really remember the backlash but it was VERY early into my fandom. At worst (best?) I remember the crowds being 50/50. But I honestly, though I was a Rock fan, that the crowds were usually 60/40 for Austin when they were both faces.

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  100. What sucks about the Invasiom, among other things, is that they used TWO big stars, and then within months of the invasion ending, all the stars that would have made it successful started trickling in: Hogan, Hall, Nash, Steiner, Goldberg.

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  101. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 5:38 PM

    For the record Hogan had won the match at that point. It did set up Hogans win at the Rumble, (and later his win at WM 7)

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  102. WWE has in the past given instant credibility to superstars upon their debuts--Jericho interrupting the Rock, the Nexus beatdown on Cena, the Shield coming in, etc. WWE could have done the same with whatever top WCW wrestlers they had. Instead they made DDP look like a jobber to Undertaker.


    And yeah, I would think that if WWE had been able or willing to sign guys like Hogan, Hall, Nash, Steiner, Goldberg, and Flair from the beginning then the whole year would have gone very differently.

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  103. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 5:45 PM

    Interesting...See I can't fully comment because around the summer of 99 I got behind Triple H...I knew the crowd was going to boo him so I never bothered to pay attention to the face reaction. The crowd was 90% behind Austin at WM 17.

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  104. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 5:51 PM

    Well I wasn't watching wrestling at that point....but had I known ...yes...I am sure that I would have gone into a fetal position and cried like a little girl that, that bitch Linda had stolen Hogans' money...in fact I still sob to this day.

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  105. If one of your best friends betrayed you, stabbed you (or hit you with a chair) in the back, mocked you, ran from you for months and months when you attacked him in non-sanctioned matches and brawls, and then gets a cheap win because some idiot with a hologram distracted you, would you COMPLETELY ignore the former best friend (did he even address Rollins in a promo the next night on Raw? I genuinely don't remember) to attack the idiot?

    I bought into this is a blood feud, and Ambrose shifting away to Wyatt just undercuts it, so it will not be as hot to me when (if) they have a match at 'Mania. Of course he hasn't literally forgotten about Rollins, but why isn't he still attacking him backstage? Why didn't he help Orton or Ziggler by attacking Rollins? Did the Authority threaten to fire him? Did Rollins get a restraining order that conveniently expires at the Royal Rumble?

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  106. YankeesHoganTripleHFanNovember 8, 2014 at 5:53 PM

    I don't hate the troops but I do hate when they show up at the gym in uniform looking for people to shake their hand.

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  107. Yeah, they should turn their performance and merchandising cash cow heel. Definitely. This is why we're not all running a multi-million (billion?) dollar global business.

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  108. And boring. he'll always be real boring too

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  109. Are you asking me? I don't know. You should make your own decision whether or not to ditto about me.

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  110. And the week of obnoxious "look how much of a smark I am" emails continue.

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  111. I have. Hoping to suggest you do some introspection. Maybe you'll agree afterwards?

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  112. I'm down for a round of introspection.

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  113. That would be a good comparison, if WWE didn't pretend every John Cena PPV match is the most important match of all time.

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  114. :) awesome. So few are these days. Let me know what you come up with and we'll go from there.

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  115. I've given up on using that to explain to my wife why I still watch wrestling. If it ever comes up again, I'm just going to show her the Pitbulls vs Raven/Stevie match where evil is punished and the good guys win...simple storytelling and one where the story is done right

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  116. The fans were pro-Austin except fall of 99. I think only because he became the hot new thing

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  117. So... WWE should say "This next PPV with Cena in the main event isn't really worth watching, it's just not that big of a deal". You should be in advertising!

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  118. I don't know that USA would have a fit over that. If they get what they expect out of their 3 hours, I think they're fine.

    The whole "shoot major angles for Main Event" thing, though? THAT they probably would have an issue with. They want the Flagship Show on THEIR network, with all that title entails.

    It's scary how much influence USA wields. I mean, do you think it was the WWE's idea to go to three hours on Mondays and make Smackdown "Raw, except no one really cares or tries this time?"

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  119. Yeah, because those are the only two options... Actually they aren't. Notice how UFC doesn't promote every main event as the "Most Important Match in the History of our Industry", yet they still do good numbers. There is a middle ground here. When Michael Cole or Jerry Lawler are always overhyping something, they lose their credibility.

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  120. I've not had any problems with it on my 360.

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  121. I would be okay with this if Cena himself didn't build up certain matches as "I *HAVE* to win this or else everything is over for me" (see "The Rock"). It makes no sense at all to me to see him treat stuff as a life-altering thing before a match but post-match not even care. It's bizarre.

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  122. I thought the whole thing with Ziggler suddenly getting a push out of nowhere and this Authority angle stipulation out of nowhere is telegraphing a Ziggler heel turn to join the Authority and help them win.


    To be honest, they could get rid of the Authority and just bring them back two weeks later - none of these stipulations even mean anything in the short term anymore.

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  123. Actually, I think this goes both ways.


    Cena does more clean losses than Hogan, for sure. But the next night after his clean losses he couldn't care less. Hogan on the other hand...when Hogan lost a match, Hogan made it seem devastating. Look at the rantings and ravings about plastic surgery when he lost to Andre. Remember when he lost the belt to Warrior and stood there for a second cradling the title as if he didn't know what to do?


    Same thing with his betrayals. Cena gets turned on, and the next night he's like, "I ain't mad bro". Hogan gets betrayed by Orndorff, he's enraged. Andre abandons him and he's heartbroken. He tries to fix things with Savage but it doesn't work. When Sid dumps him out he throws a fit and tries to get Sid out too.

    In terms of "showing flaws" via clean losses, sure Hogan not as much. In terms of having flaws as a wrestling character, Hogan wins that one hands down man.

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  124. If WM17 had been anywhere other than Austin's home state, I suspect his heel turn would've gone off a lot more smoothly.

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  125. That thought has crossed my mind. It's not the worst thing that could happen. Worst case scenario would be them ruining Orton's turn with a swerve of him coming back for the Authority. I don't think they're that stupid...but I wouldn't put it past them.

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  126. And the week of smark hating comments continue.

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  127. So athletes never express disappointment and sadness in their post-game interviews?

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  128. He doesn't seem to have learned from that

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  129. What if a Make a Wish kid's wish was for Cena to turn heel?

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  130. The unrelenting number of recaps doesn't help matters.


    It's basically destroyed Smackdown for me, and I've not watched SD for ages because it honestly just felt like it was about 60% replays and recaps of Raw, 30% filler and 10% actual wrestling (if we're lucky).

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  131. Needs more "execution" comments. Otherwise I agree completely

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  132. I think its a real possibility, especially with HHH getting some babyface traction following the Stephanie/Angle stuff. Once he fights through HHH, Angle, and no top contenders are around I can see a backlash starting. The timing would have been ideal for Austin to say "there is no one left" and tease a heel turn, in spring/early summer, only for WCW to invade and give him a whole new set of problems

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  133. My execution of this comment was a bit off in how it was executed. It all boils down to execution so hopefully next time I can execute better.

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  134. They could air the dark match main events or pre show matches on the network.

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  135. A poster on CRZ's board (Hogan's My Dad) posted something a while back that I thought described fandom pretty good for a lot of us. The sports analogy works for me:

    "I really look at wrestling from the perspective of a sports fan. I know, I know. Blah blah entertainment blah. But it's not either sport or entertainment, it's both. And neither. When I watch, I am analytical. I really can't help but to watch it that way and I don't feel it hurts my enjoyment. I am looking at execution of moves, pacing, styles of working, crowd reaction, psychology, how well commentary tells the story. I don't find it different from a pure sport in that sense; if you think NBA or NHL or MLB commentators aren't being paid to tell the story of the game and enhance the drama, you're naive. As such, I don't have the same expectations of WWE that I have of a typical TV show. If a regular TV show starts sucking, I just stop watching it. It doesn't make me upset. True Blood became absolute balls so I just say fuck it and gave up. When WWE sucks, to me it's just a bad season. But just as I'll never totally give up on the Leafs or the Raptors or the Jays (and God knows I want to sometimes), I will never completely give up on WWE.

    What I will do, is watch these teams less when they're awful than when they're winning. It's a lot more fun to watch the Raptors now than it has been for many years (they still could break the franchise record for regular season wins). And when WWE is awful, I certainly watch it less. But somehow, I'm always going to keep an eye on it because it's just part of my lifestyle at this point."

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  136. Most losing teams don't come to the post-game interview, say "no sweat--championships come and go," then show photoshopped pictures of the opposing coach...

    If all Cena did over the years was pick himself up, brush off the dust, show some humility & determination to win the next time then that'd be fine. That's not what people complain about. It's the times he's laughed off the loss and undersold its importance. He & WWE share the blame for this.

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  137. I don't hate "smarks." I technically am one. I really dislike forced, try-hard smarm, however.

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  138. These days, "smarks" are the WWE apologists. Seriously, what argument could you have opposed to this? "Oh no, RAW is far better with Xena's hacky acting, clunky in-ring ability, and shitty storylines!"

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