Saturday, December 20, 2014

Sporting News: Survivor Series actually makes money?!?


Sting is apparently such a draw that people would rather fork over $55 than get a free month of the Network.  That's impressive, actually.  

89 comments:

  1. But ppv is dead?

    LONG LIVE THE STINGER OF DOOM

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  2. I get the 70k international buys. Plenty of folks who can't get the network. But the 33k domestic? That's just bizarre.

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  3. This just proves HHH's drawing power. People want to see him and "The Vigilante" Sting go face to face. Toe to toe. Man to man. WCW vs WWF. The last true dream match.

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  4. Does this mean that it made money, though? I mean, the WWE isn't going to complain about 100k buys for Survivor Series beyond the Network model, but just a general question.

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  5. You can bet that's probably how WWE will spin it. Maybe Sting-Triple H goes on last at WrestleMania.

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  6. Why wouldn't it? HHH is the biggest draw of a generation. They really should have let him break the streak in his 2nd chance and forced a rubber match. Money left on the table.

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  7. Probably older fans or kids

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  8. He was not authorized to be in a WWE ring. What he did was akin to a fan jumping the barricade and hitting Triple H with a finish.

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  9. WWE is probably like, "Man, that's a lot of complete idiots who didn't buy the Network!"

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  10. I like that you're joking, but HHH is a proven bigger draw than either Punk or Bryan.

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  11. A fan with entrance music and a nifty video on the tron...

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  12. Evidence-less conspiracy theory time:

    The international roll out of the network has been deliberately botched in the 2 biggest markets (Canada & UK) because the international buys soften the blow of nuking the US PPV market

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  13. Man, after watching HHH's 20 minute promos for the last decade, I have a new appreciation for silent Sting in the rafters.

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  14. All wrestlers have an embedded chip in their neck that contains their Titantron video, that gets beamed to the screen whenever they pass the Gorilla position.

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  15. That's an amazing theory, although how did the Shield activate it from the stands?

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  16. Sting has been a huge draw for like three decades now, is it really that shocking?


    I DREAM OF RAAAAAAIIIIIN-EYYYAAAHHYYYEEAAIIIIIN

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  17. Hey, look at that!

    *runs away*

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  18. Bars without internet?

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  19. WHAT DID I FUCKING TELL YOU PEOPLE!?

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  20. Does this factor in all the countries that doesn't have The Network or just local buys?

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  21. Shhh. Don't let inconvenient facts get in the way of some hilarious BoD comedy.

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  22. Not trying to take anything away from THEVIGILANTESTING, but it wasn't at all a sure thing that he'd show. Lots of people thought that Orton (St Louis being his hometown and all) or even Reigns were going to return. Hell, according to some dirt sheet or other, they switched the big return from Orton to Sting shortly before the show started.

    Also, as much as plenty of folks on here like to act like the Authority is the worst thing to happen to wrestling, they did a surprisingly good/effective job building up the main event in a prett short time, and the match itself was even better of course.

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  23. I don't think Sting can really be given any large (or even small) amount of credit for the buyrate. His return was only rumored in dirt sheets - and it was far from the first time that his WWE debut has been rumored, mind you - and the type of people who read dirt sheets are the type who either illegally stream PPVs, or in the case of November, would have watched Survivor Series for free on the WWE Network, not pay for it on television.


    As it turns out, having something important at stake in the main event and providing a good/great buildup to it actually draws. Who knew?

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  24. When that 77,000 heads towards 0, that is gonna HURT.

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  25. I'm not completely au fait with the US TV market, but is there still a lot of people that don't have smart TV's, or XBox's or whatever else? Are a lot of people just compelled to have to use the old traditional means? Wrestling fans are pretty old on average.

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  26. Maybe this means that if they just scrapped the thing, or at least just pulled all the PPV's off and went back to the old model, they might actually end up being okay.

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  27. Nobody would really dispute that, even though this is clearly a different era of what constitutes a "draw" and the WWE promoting a Sting vs. HHH main event for WrestleMania would flop.

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  28. Same theory but with the concourse entrance instead.

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  29. You'd think the parents of the kids would think the network is a good enough deal to grab. $120/year. That's two PPVS.

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  30. I really hope that doesn't happen. Sure it's fun to see Vince's hubris catch up with him, but the Network is the best idea they've had since the brand extension. I want to see them forced into making the product better and making the Network a must-have instead of retreating back to PPV.

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  31. Wouldn't flop at all. 3 million PPV buys, 190,000 people blowing the roof off the Hooverdome as Sting bodyslams the 9000lb HHH.

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  32. "...because I'm cool... I'm as cool as a cat... I am what I say I am and I say I'm..." Masterful delivery

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  33. But I don't think the whole "...you're fired" stip draws anymore in wrestling.

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  34. this kind of wit and we get souther states pro wrestling reviews? Wasted potential

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  35. and you can buy month to month now so you can mark off the commitment phobes as being the holdouts. Maybe Maggle just isn't doing a good enough job telling us about the network. maybe have to double down on that.

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  36. Not sure how great Hennig would have been on top. Did he have a run of house shows with Hogan that flopped before WM6?

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  37. I've often thought that making the stip something like 30 days banned from the WWE would be more affective these days. Fans, by and large, don't buy the fired stip. But, they may believe it's possible that someone will be off TV for a while.

    Whether that translates to buys, I dunno, though.

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  38. Survivor Series always gets more buys than Summerslam.

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  39. I'm brain farting on that angle and the HBK stuff entirely - what was going down at the time Curt left the WWF?

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  40. Money on the table...

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  41. 22 years of him complaining he didn't get the belt.

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  42. Bret did "headline" the Summerslam that drew 80K so I think at that point he was almost destined to get the big belt.

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  43. Even when survivor series is free? That's the kicker

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  44. There's still a ton of people without access to the Network that love them some rasslin.

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  45. I don't think Scott realizes just how many people don't have access to hi speed internet here in America. How many people have the network, but can only watch on their phone or tablet and use their data plan? That's the main kicker for the people that still order PPV's.

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  46. This was the first time Sting wad rumored to show up after he had a working relationship established with the WWE (through the video game).

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  47. Local and domestic. Local was 33K.

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  48. Who actually gets credit for Sting doing what probably most thought would never happen by showing up in a WWE ring, Vince or Trips?

    If Trips is it another instance where he should get credit for his ability to build bridges? (Bruno, Warrior, Sting).

    I'll say again, the guy makes you cringe with some of the stuff he does, but when he wants to, he has some pretty good leadership qualities. If he would just show ass like Vince was always willing to do in front of the camera, I'd be happier.

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  49. Something about your huge cock?

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  50. Can't wait for the commentary on Raw Monday.

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  51. He stole that from me.

    The joke about the microchips.

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  52. Well, there's a stat that backs up the stereotype of most wrestling fans not being very intelligent...

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  53. He was The Franchise in WCW, and clearly WCW never did anything right, so he must be a vigilante.


    Like fuckin' Vince wanting to rename Vader as The Mastadon.

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  54. HHH doesn't need to be on camera. He has shown vulnerability in recent years but I'd prefer he gives his 100% attention on cultivating and mentoring talent than him and his wife being lead heels (or 'tweeners or whatever the fuck they are) on television because them being there always takes away from the current in-ring talent.

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  55. He was "helping" Mero out against HHH but then he turned, cost Mero the IC belt to HHH, and was aligned with him for a couple weeks till he jumped.

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  56. tbp is a rapist. I remember hearing that specifically.

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  57. Yep. Broadband/high speed internet access is a complete shitshow in many parts of America and without it, streaming video is simply not an option.

    I'm more baffled that the WWE didn't know about this or take it into account.

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  58. Sting should absolutely enter the Royal Rumble. And while a surprise entrance would be cool as hell, for the sake of buyrates/subscriptions, they should advertise it.

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  59. Agreed. Just do the things he's doing in NXT, swallow the ego to stay out from in front of the camera

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  60. I think it did on the Authority end in that people probably wanted to see them FINALLY taken down

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  61. You're probably a Genesis fan, so IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK

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  62. I don't care and don't know why you feel the need to say it.

    HHH sold WM30 all by himself as well. No one wanted to see Bryan. The draw was seeing "The Game" "The King of Kings" HHH do battle yet again on the grandest stage of them all. What an absolute HONOR for the live crowd to watch him compete.

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  63. Remember when Smackdown was cool and different? Me neither, but it's din to be reminded watching some older episodes on the network.

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  64. To be fair, a lot of comic fans call him that, and WORSE. "DiDIOT" gets thrown around a lot, too.

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  65. depends on your point of view. First off business was heading south post Savage/Hogan blowoff. Yeah Hennig had a run with Hogan around Rumble 90 time but do you blame Hennig for the downturn in the business or do you blame Hogan for starting to get a tad stale (something Vince obviously knew since he put Warrior over 3 months later)? Do you blame the fact that the company had been doing massive business for five years and people just started to move on? I know I did. I was a huge fan from 84 to 90 but it started to lose its luster for a variety of reasons. I was still super into the product all the way through WM5 but Zeus and no holds barred did not get over with me as a 16 year old. Guys like Duggan and Warrior also weren't resonating with me as a slightly older fan. And real life hit. At 16 I had sports, and dances and friends and wrestling just stopped seeming as important. I'm sure other fans grew out of it as well. I still dabbled into early to mid 92 but stopped watching completely (save one trip to the Rumble in 93 to be SHOCKED that Bret was the champ) for 4 years.


    And in addition to all that, I would venture that by 1990, you had 4 ppvs a year. You had cable tv and SNME (still). I think the old model of the house show was going by the way side a bit and certainly the old idea that so and so was a draw rather than the entire product was going by the way side. ppv buyrates were a better measure of fan interest in particular talent or feuds than house show ticket sales, particularly in markets where the WWF didn't go every month or two, so fans weren't at a show and being shiled for the next show with certain talent.


    So in a nutshell, no I don't blame Hennig much, but I will say WWF and Hogan didn't exactly make him a real threat to the Hulkster. Hulk himself is rumored to have put the kabosh on Hennig winning the Rumble. Would have added fuel to the house show run and Hogan had Warrior coming up anyway.

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  66. Yeah but Hennig didn't really take off until he became intercontinental champ.

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  67. I liked that he shaved off Ramon's eyebrows.

    "Fuck you, Kid"...and then he shaved off the brow.

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  68. Don't perpetuate the word of Satan!

    Survivor Series drew more buys than SummerSlam... exactly twice.

    http://www.2xzone.com/wwe/buyrates.shtml#.VJb2ZqAEAA

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  69. I actually expect a class action suit over the 'free trial' since there was no way to prevent the next month from billing.

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  70. Areas without broadband, or without means or desire to hook up to this newfangled technology.

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  71. Hunter would choke to death trying to swallow THAT ego.


    Ego the Living Planet is actually smaller than HHH's ego.

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  72. One of my considerations when cancelling was that November wasn't free for current subscribers.

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  73. Time to bury Sting. He's getting over!

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  74. Who watched the Tribute to the Troops? Remember how there was guys repelling down? Does that open the door for Sting from the ceiling again? That'd be cool.

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  75. I really liked Triple H being a neutral/face authority figure early on against Big Johnny.


    And then the usual BS.

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  76. It's still blue instead of red.

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  77. "The Vigilamte" Sting! In his first Toyal Rumble! Comes out at 30 is promptly eliminated. Walks to the back.

    Gotta keep that "Vigilante" from getting too full of himself.

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  78. It was a sure thing and he did show.

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  79. Some of you may believe this and others may not. Depending how many people you know that are internet illiterate. And yes there are still TONS of people in 2014 that don't know how the internet works.

    But I bet there was a large percentage of those people who paid for the ppv that thought that is what you had to do to get the network for free.

    I know, it sounds nuts, but I have spoken to more than one person and heard from a few others that they didn't realize the network was not connected to cable/satellite in any way; that it is a standalone internet only service.

    And for all the people that think this theory is insane a great example is about 6 months or so ago on the Cheap Heat podcast; it was one of Noelle Foley's first times on the show they asked her about the network and she said she had no idea how to access it and would have to ask one of her brothers to show her. This is a 20 year old modern woman who's dad is in the hall of fame, who's family has money, so it's not like she didn't grow up with internet in her house, and who is now training to be a wrestler and it didn't seem like she had a clue on how the network functioned. I assume she's figured it out by now and this isn't a knock on the intelligence level of Mrs Foley's Baby Boy's Baby Girl, this is just one example of how how people have not been able to grasp the network.

    Maybe it's hard for the causal fan to grasp that the wwe would go from $55 ppv to $10 a month. I don't know.

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  80. I'm actually surprised cable companies weren't interested in bringing the network in as its own channel. Wrestling, although an albatross to advertisers, always does great cable TV ratings.

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  81. WWE has a SERIOUS problem...

    I've been a proponent of the "not enough people have adequate broadband access" theory for a. hile now. However, I decided to take a look at how well the top streaming content provider--Netflix--is doing, and if there's any lesson to be learned there. Two major points:

    * Netflix currently has over 53 MILLION subscribers worldwide. That's roughly 37 million domestic, 16 million international. Here's a link:

    http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/15/6984955/netflix-q3-2014-earnings

    If 37 million people have the technological capability of streaming Netflix then surely a million or so have the capability of streaming the WWE Network. This raises 3 possibilities: 1) WWE has so turned off their fanbase that it flat-out refuses to subscribe to the Network. 2) The income level of wrestling fans are such that they simply cannot afford to subscribe. 3) Age is a factor in determining the likelihood of a fan subscribing.

    That brings me to major point #2:

    * Netflix users skew young. The older they get, the faster the drop-off in terms of preference to traditional cable over internet streaming. Here's a link for that:

    http://mashable.com/2013/12/05/netflix-cable-users/

    A pretty quick Google search turned this up, and several other similar stories. The bottom line is it appears wrestling fans aren't getting the Network NOT because they don't have the technological savvy or capability... but because they CHOOSE NOT TO, and if it's because of income then that makes wrestling a bad investment for Wallstreet and the USA Network; and if it's an age issue (which seems more likely, as the number floating around for the average age of wrestling fans is 41), then their entire marketing approach and product presentation is wrong. They've driven away the very audience they need to make not only the Network successful, but to assure the company's continued profitability in five, ten, fifteen years time. Kids & teens lose interest and drift away by a certain age, and the bulk of the fanbase is getting older and (perhaps literally) dying off.

    However you interpret it, WWE has a serious fucking problem.

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  82. They take it into account by keeping PPV available and keeping the TV shows on traditional TV.

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  83. You're overthinking this to a ridiculous degree.

    Netflix features TV shows and movies of all genres.
    The WWE Network features wrestling shows.

    If Netflix only provided people with niche content of one certain type, they'd have a far smaller subscriber base.

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  84. To do it WWE would have had to create a network from scratch, meaning their cable channel number would be way high, or buy an existing channel and replace it (like Oprah Winfrey did for her network--she bought one of the Discovery channels). Then you have to figure out the revenue structure. To get it on cable for free or as part of an extended channel package, WWE would have made very little money off it. If they made it a pay channel like HBO then the cable company would get a big chunk of the monthly fee. The whole reason it didn't happen is because WWE could never crunch the numbers in a way that led to them making money off of it.

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