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Assorted April PPV Countdown: ECW Barely Legal

Hey Scott,

Since today (04.15.12) is the 15th anniversary of PPV getting extreme (or at least extreme for those with Viewer's Choice Cable Access), how about doing a little 2012 Scott Sez with Barely Legal?

Sho nuff.

The Netcop Retro Rant for ECW Barely Legal

- I get a LOT of requests for this show, so I figured that since I was taping it for someone anyway, I’d do the long-awaited rant on it. For those not aware, this was ECW’s first ever and much anticipated PPV debut in April of 1997, with Sabu and Taz having built an issue for the previous year and a half to lead up to it.  (2012 Scott sez:  For a while I was literally making 3 or 4 copies a week of this show, which is weird because I wasn’t even able to watch the original PPV, being that we didn’t get ECW until 98.  Of course everyone should know the story here by now, as Paul Heyman planned to take the ECW show onto PPV in 1996 with November to Remember, but then they went and crucified Sandman and every PPV company but one refused to deal with them.) 

- Live from the Bingo Hall.  (RIP.)

- Your host is Joey Styles.

- Opening match: The Dudley Boyz v. The Eliminators.  (This was the Dudleys defending the ECW tag team titles, by the way.  Not sure why I didn’t note that.) 

The DUDs interrupt Joey’s opening spiel and we’re underway. Sign Guy takes Total Elimination right off the bat and the DUDs jump the Elims and get a two count on Kronus with a Rockerplex. They go for 3D early and miss, and the Eliminators get a chance to showcase their flashy double-team stuff, which in retrospect was 100% Saturn, and Kronus carefully following his lead. In retrospect, I have to say that all those people buying into Paul Heyman’s “Greatest tag team in the world” hype about Saturn & Kronus are looking pretty silly given how useless John Kronus turned out to be. (Not to speak ill of the dead, of course, but he really had nothing to offer once that team was done.)  Long stall period, then Saturn & Kronus each moonsault onto the Dudleys on the floor. Back in and more spot showcasing from the challengers, with the Dudleys getting no offense. It’s basically a squash disguised as a tag title match, which I’m betting Paul is regretting looking back on it, because Saturn bolted for WCW very soon after this, while the Dudleys stuck with him for another two years. (Can you believe that it’s 15 years later and the Dudley Boyz are still basically going strong and could conceivably team up again and win another tag title if TNA decided to go that direction?  They were a team with crazy staying power and not only held the ECW tag titles, but the WWF, fake WCW, WWE RAW, WWE Smackdown, NWA and TNA tag belts.  There is no other team that will even have an opportunity to match that.)  Total Elimination unceremoniously finishes Buh Buh at 6:30. Just a bunch of spots, which earns my standard rating for that type of match: *1/2 Joel takes Total Elimination, thus injuring his neck, an injury which he still has today. Man, what a trooper.  (Whatever happened to Joel Gertner, anyway?  You’d think SOMEONE would book him.) 

- Chris Candido comes out and whines about being injured, thus taking him off the PPV. Instead of Storm v. Candido, we get…

- Lance Storm v. Rob Van Dam.

Headlock sequence to start goes nowhere. RVD pulls out a nice tope con hilo as the first highspot. Rob was not what you’d call over yet. As a sidenote, I managed to create a pretty damn good RVD in Wrestlemania 2000 yesterday, using Test’s outfit and Ken Shamrock’s boots. The main problem was finding a taunt where he pointed at himself. Anyway, flying legdrop gets two. Lance retaliates with a springboard elbow, but misses a pescado. They fight on the floor for a bit and Rob finds a chair. A chair tossed at Storm gets a pop. He dropkicks Storm in the face with the chair in the corner for good measure. Frog splash (which was only around **1/2 at that time instead of *****) gets two. Storm hits a neat inverted powerslam on the chair to come back. Handspring splash in the corner and bodypress gets two. Storm tries a Boston crab, but it’s Philadelphia so RVD escapes. Storm then annoys the hell out of the crowd by hitting a chairshot that’s on par with Erik Watts’ dropkick. The crowd soundly boos that one. A tiger bomb on the chair gets two. RVD blows a springboard elbow for two. Storm hits another pair of pussed-out chairshots (who does he think he is, Hulk Hogan?) but RVD catches him on the third try with the VanDaminator, and a superfluous backflip splash gets the pin at 10:07. Another bunch of spots in lieu of a match. *3/4  (Yeah, this was a show that did not age well at ALL.  It was already totally exposed by 2000, when I was writing this review, and it looks even worse if you’re watching it today.  Storm didn’t really have cred until the Impact Players team and RVD was just kind of a guy until the TV title win in 98.) 

- Rob does his standard “no respect” speech from that time period and bitches about playing second fiddle to Candido. At that time, Rob was doing shots on Monday Night RAW, squashing Jeff Hardy in one match. Oddly, Hardy is now a bigger star than Rob, who despite being “Mr. Monday Night” hasn’t worked a Monday night show since 1997. (Yeah, that would change, although Jeff Hardy is still by far a bigger star.  Even more oddly, RVD’s PPV debut for the WWF would be at the Invasion show against…Jeff Hardy.)  Irony can be so darned ironic sometimes.

- Gran Hamada, The Great Sasuke & Masato Yakushiji v. Men’s Teioh, Dick Togo & TAKA Michinoku.

The Power Ranger is subbing for Gran Naniwa here. Hamada kills Taka to start and the faces triple-team him. Sadly, Joey didn’t yet grasp the proper pronunciation of “Sasuke”. KDX does its series of triple-teams and posing. Togo gets a FAT-ASSED SENTON~! for two on Yakushiji and they work him over for a while. Hamada comes in and things REALLY pick up. Sasuke and Teioh do one of those “sound and fury signifying nothing” tumbling sequences that ECW fans seem to always pop for. Nice spot next as Taka escapes a half crab from Sasuke and wiggles into an enzuigiri in one motion. Sasuke plays face-in-peril as KDX does the Togo muscle pose. Teioh nails a killer spinning DDT, then Yakushiji comes in and gets MURDERED. Triple-team powerbomb gets two on him. They try the same thing on Sasuke and blow it, the only bad spot of the match. Sasuke moonsaults onto both Togo & Teioh and gets two. The ending sequence begins with everyone pairing off two-by-two. Teioh pulls out an inverted atomic drop on Hamada…from the top rope! Yakushiji then takes a DDT and one of my favorite moves ever, the MIRACLE ECSTASY BOMB! Gotta love those Japanese move names. Togo and Hamada go next. Gran hits a DDT for two, Togo gets a powerbomb for two. He tries the senton bomb to finish, but Sasuke breaks it up. Yakushiji hits a flying rana and a tope suicida, and now it’s Taka and Sasuke. Michinoku Driver #2 gets two. Sasuke catches him coming off the top and moonsaults him for two. Powerbomb and tiger suplex finishes it for the faces at 16:55. This match, ladies and germs, is why I watch wrestling. ****3/4 Trust me, if you watched and enjoyed this match, get everything you can from Michinoku Pro around that time period, because IT’S ALL GOOD.  (Bit overrated in retrospect, but generally my secondary source of revenue after Barely Legal dubs was people who would then write back and say “Holy shit, do you have any more stuff like that six-man?” and then I could sell them Michinoku Pro comps.  I used to sit and watch 8 hour M-Pro comps with endless combinations of these guys.  Although now I prefer having a full-time job and regular sex and stuff.) 

- ECW World TV title: Shane Douglas v. Pitbull #2.

(There are a lot of dead wrestlers on this show.  Healthy working environments were not Heyman’s specialty.)  The story: Shane is a jerk who broke Pitbull #1’s neck and then tormented him during the healing process, and his partner wants revenge. Plus Shane was being stalked by a, ahem, mysterious masked man even though his identity was the worst-kept secret in wrestling. But on the off-chance you don’t know who it is, I won’t spoil it yet. The stip here is that if Pitbull doesn’t win the title, the masked man has to unmask. Riot cops are at ringside to protect Shane, in a bit that Vince Russo has now stolen twice, once in the WWF and once in WCW. (More than that since then.)  Finally, in case you haven’t heard the story behind the actual match itself, Pitbull #2 is the DDP type, in that he likes to have the match scripted out beforehand, while Shane always insists on calling the match himself. The result was such a car wreck that I used it in the FAQ as the best example of mismatched styles. The match has almost no heat as they plod along best they can. The psychology is there on Shane’s part as he works on the neck, but Pitbull suddenly shrugs it off and comes back, and it’s never brought up again. Pitbull #1 is sitting at ringside and he jumps Douglas, but the riot squad drags him off. Meanwhile, back in the ring a piece of rail gets involved and they blow the spot. Pitbull makes the superman comeback but Shane uses a chair, knuckle dusters, the ringbell, and a hunk of table to subdue him long enough to go for the chain. (I know I get on those wacky runs sometimes where I exaggerate all the silly overbooking, but Shane literally used all those things in succession.)  Yeah, because lord knows if a chair, knuckle dusters, the ringbell and a table didn’t put him down, certainly a CHAIN would stand a better chance. Chris Candido runs interference and Shane hits that most devastating of finishers, the BELLY-TO-BELLY OF DEATH, for the pin at 20:38. Yes, you read that right, Paul E actually gave this mess TWENTY MINUTES. He has since apologized to everyone for doing so. ½*  (Absolutely true.  At least he can admit his mistakes.  I think 1/2* is very generous, as this was clearly a negative-stars affair.) 

- The masked man (looking pretty fat) comes out to be unmasked…as Shane’s flunky Brian Lee. One of the riot squad reveals himself to be Rick Rude, and Lee and Rude beat Shane down. Both Lee and Rude would jump to the WWF shortly after this.  (A running theme on the night, in fact.) 

- Notable Raven promo in that he uses the phrase “Powers To Be” at one point, thus showing exactly whose fault that one is…

- Taz v. Sabu.

This was actually supposed to happen six months prior, but Torch reporter Bruce Mitchell sent PPV companies a tape of the crucifixion angle and the PPV ended up getting delayed until 1997 because of it. Slugfest to start here and they do a wrestling sequence. Taz gets an anklelock. He goes into a crossface and busts Sabu open very quickly into the match. They head into the crowd and Sabu hits a plancha. Back in the ring and Taz control on the mat. Sabu makes his chair-assisted comeback. Taz puts a stop to that. Back to the floor, and Sabu goes through a table. Back in and Sabu hits a rana for two and a top rope legdrop. It’s all for naught as Taz drops him on his head with a Tazplex or two and hooks the Katahajime for the submission at 17:45. Incredibly disappointing given the Sting/Hogan-like buildup. Match had no heat, either, oddly enough. **1/4  (Heyman was all buildup and no payoff, like with this and the endless RVD chase of the World title that never led anywhere.) 

- A great angle follows the match, however, as Taz offers the handshake to Sabu and they have a male bonding moment. Rob Van Dam attacks, however, and Sabu suddenly decides to join in, and we have a double-turn. They start to go after Fonzie after destroying Taz, but Fonzie pulls off his Taz shirt to reveal a Sabu shirt. It turns out that he bet money on the match, but on SABU, not his own man. Van Dam gives the “PPV Superstar” speech, another big moment for him.

- Sandman v. Stevie Richards v. Terry Funk.

Lots of chops to start, and Stevie gets two off a rollup on Funk. Sandman helps Stevie by suplexing him onto Funk, then double-crosses him by suplexing him, period. He disappears to the back and brings a ladder back with him. Funk takes it in the head for two. Terry climbs the moonsault and does an alleged moonsault off it onto Stevie, missing by a foot. Stevie sells it anyway. Stevie superkicks Sandman for two, then Sandman takes his patented upside-down bump to the ladder. Sandman & Stevie fight up the ladder and Funk knocks both off. He puts the ladder on his shoulders and swings wildly, knocking everyone out. Funk and Sandman slug it out, and Stevie comes off the top and nails both. Steviekick on Sandman gets two, prompting a big “bullshit” chant from the partisan crowd. Guess Paul underestimated how over the bWo was? (I never got the supposed brilliance of that one.  Even in 1997 nWo parodies were a dime a dozen and it’s not like Blue Meanie had anything particularly witty to say on the subject.  It was like a Family Guy “Hey, this is a thing you’ve heard of” extended cutaway gag or something.)  They all fight to the floor and Sandman disappears again, returning with a trash can. Stevie gets suplexed on it for two. Sandman legdrops him under the ladder for two. They screw up another spot with the ladder, then Funk & Sandman hit a double-team powerbomb on Stevie and pin him. That just deflates the crowd even more. Sandman tosses some barbed wire into the ring, and gets whipped with it by Funk. Sandman wraps himself in it, and legdrops Funk off the top for two. Stevie tries to interfere, allowing Funk to put the trash can on Sandman’s head. A Steviekick and Funk moonsault finishes it at 19:07. ** Raven attacks right away.  (Because they were running out of PPV time and nearly had the show end on them.) 

- ECW World title match: Raven v. Terry Funk.

Raven destroys Funk, who is bleeding buckets. They fight out of the ring, and Raven puts him through a table. Raven’s Nest attacks and puts Funk out. Tommy Dreamer stands up from the announce position to yell at Raven, and Big Dick Dudley attacks from behind. He tries to chokeslam Tommy through three conveniently stacked tables but Tommy reverses and puts Dick through them in a bit of irony not unlike Shakespearean plays of yore. Tommy heads down to ringside and DDTs Raven, and Funk covers for two. A quick small package gets three and the title, however. Really, really awful match to end the show. DUD 

The Bottom Line: This show got huge praise at the time, and while it features the second-best match ECW has ever produced (I actually did give ***** to one, and one only, ECW match from 1995, and it’s probably completely not what you’d expect) there’s not much else wrestling-wise. Still, a near ***** match is always good enough for a thumbs up from me, and given I’ve seen this show almost 30 times now thanks to the huge amount of people who wanted a copy in 97 and I can still watch it, that at least shows it has staying power. I still completely disagree with the decision to put Terry Funk over Raven here, however. I was always on the side of giving Tommy Dreamer his first win over Raven at this show, and I think it would have worked out better for all involved had that happened. Anyway, no matter my feelings on this show, many many people hold this one dear to their hearts, and no matter how badly Heyman botched almost every PPV after this one, he still managed a good first impression and that counted for a lot considering the crap that was to follow this. (I think this show was actually released on DVD at one point, as an extra on another ECW DVD put out by WWE, but I could be wrong.  Watching this show now and you’ll wonder why they became such a big deal.) 

Recommended show.  (Not really, although there’s still a lot of nostalgia for it and that’s OK.) 

Comments

  1. Nostalgia and the Michinoku Pro match is all this PPV has going for it.  Otherwise, it's pretty awful. I remember when I bought the DVD and was fired up to see what ECW was all about, and this nearly killed all interest I had in the promotion.  Fortunately, their other DVD releases had far more entertaining content.  

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  2. My internal timing of events over 15 years ago may be shot to hell, but I could have sworn that it was the Mass Transit incident that caused ECW probelms getting on PPV...

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  3. It was released as a bonus disc on one of the WWECW DVDs but I'm not sure which one.  Maybe wiki will tell me...One Night Stand 2006.  So it was the sandman crucifixion angle that got them booted off PPV?  What, if anything, did the Mass Transit match ahve to do with it?

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  4. You're right, Scott, this PPV was a bonus on the WWE One Night Stand 2 DVD, which makes that a really great package to have (it's not edited or anything either). Having never seen any ECW, I thought it was a really fun show, especially to see so many familiar faces in their original environment. Then again, I might have just been really drunk after watching One Night Stand. 

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  5. Mass Transit was a major factor, but it was specifically the crucifixion angle that was the inciting incident to getting them kicked off PPV before they ever got on.

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  6. I can understand why people may have been offended by the crucifixion angle, but that was still a dick move by Bruce Mitchell.

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  7. I'd be more excited by this review if it had 2012 Sho'Nuff Says commentary.

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  8. But that would mean that Wikipedia is lying!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Transit_incident_%28professional_wrestling%29#Pay-per-view_cancellation

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  9. No, that was different anyway. The first PPV was supposed to be November 2 Remember and the Bruce Mitchell deal got that one nixed, THEN he tried to go with Barely Legal and Mass Transit got that one delayed until April. Two different things. So Wikipedia is correct, fear not.

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  10. "As a sidenote, I managed to create a pretty damn good RVD in
    Wrestlemania 2000 yesterday, using Test’s outfit and Ken Shamrock’s
    boots. The main problem was finding a taunt where he pointed at himself."

    Ah, the good ol' days  where we all spent the majority of our time updating our WM 2000 (and later No Mercy) playing roster with the current stars. Good times.

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  11.  Scott has yet to earn the glow, you see...

    Honestly, Last Dragon has to be the oddest movie in history.

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  12. It's really funny how with pro-wrestling one person sees trash, another sees treasure. I have the Triple Threat match at ****1/2-****3/4. I absolutely love it. 

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  13. ECW was never the same when they started PPVs.

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  14. This is one of Scott's worst reviews.  He totally misses everything great about this show and really underrates some fun matches (Dudleyz/Eliminators, RVD/Storm, Taz/Sabu) for being "just a bunch of spots" and yet blasts the SPOT-FEST 6-Man Tag with streamers and and almost perfect star rating.  The Triple Threat match here has to be one of the most influential 3-man matches, for better or worse.  Also worth noting that this show was pretty much universally acclaimed at the time and remains one of my favorite wrestling broadcasts.

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  15. Totally. And they apologized for the angle later that night with Raven even breaking character to do so.

    Jesus would have forgiven the ECW crew. After all, forgiveness is a key component of what He's all about!

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  16. To this day Raven claims the whole crucifixion thing got totally blown out of proportion and his apology just made the whole thing worse because the fans weren't offended by it.

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  17.  He's wrong about the fans not being offended, but he's right about it totally being blown out of proportion.  He was a heel.  In fact he was the one heel that the super smark ECW crowd booed because they hated with no sense of irony, workrate, etc.  Then again I don't take offense at things the some may find sacreligious.  Simple rule:  If your faith and your religion is so damn strong and wonderful, it can withstand an angle by a wrestler.  that theory can of course be extrapolated to cover all kinds of interactions between religion and public life.

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  18. I wasn't thrilled with Funk being booked to go over, however Heyman did it for three reasons.  The first was he felt, right or wrong, that Funk had more credibility with an audience that may have ordered not being totally familiar with ECW.  Second, allegedly, the locker room was behind Funk getting the belt.  Third, it was a reward to Funk for helping ECW get to that point by being the one name who stuck around for awhile, worked big angles, and got other talent over.  I too would have put Dreamer over, but rumor has it he was injured.  My second choice would have been Richards, simply because he was hugely over.  Since Funk dropped the belt almost immediately to Sabu anyways, Richards didn't have to carry it long term, rather it would have been a nice reward to a guy who had been loyal, was a local Philly boy, and it would have sent the crowd home happy (happier than with Funk IMO). 

    I liked the show better than Scott.  In this case, much like some of the early WWF ppvs, nostalgia goes a long way towards covering up some flaws.  However I rate many of the matches much higher than Scott.  The Eliminators match gets 2 stars from me just for cool spots.  RVD/Storm gets 2 stars, although the chair shots were pathetic.  4/12 for the Japanese 6 man.  No stars for Douglas/Pitbull 2.  3 stars for Taz/Sabu.  3 stars for the three way.  Hard to really rate the Raven/Funk match since it was so rushed and was full of interference.  Not sure it's a dud though.  And the whole show just had a fun vibe to it and you could feel just how proud they were to be on ppv. 

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  19. In what universe was anyone influenced by that three-way match?

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  20. I watched this show for the first time a few years ago and they lost me on one major point: unless I completely missed it and I don't think I did, they never explain why Taz and Sabu are fighting.  They say it's because the two hate each other and have for a year, but they never said WHY.  I had to have a guy on a forum explain it to me.  That made them come off as really lower level to me, as they couldn't spend 10 seconds explaining a story.

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  21. Funk didn't drop the title till 4 months later so it wasn't quite "almost immediately".  Plus it really sucks that Funk accidentally fucked up Stevie's neck a month after this and pretty much killed his career for good, at least in terms of being a main eventer.

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  22. I know Sandman says the same thing too and Kurt Angle was the reason they all got in trouble for it.  I don't know, I doubt Angle being offended was a primary reason for the November PPV being dropped.

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  23. "Heyman was all buildup and no payoff, like with this and the
    endless RVD chase of the World title that never led anywhere."

    True dat. This also applies for Taz's big ECW title win, the ascension of Al Snow, etc.

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  24. Scott how about WCW Spring Stampede 99'. The last great WCW pay per view.

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  25. Wasn't Snow going to the WWF anyway?  Would have been kinda hard to put the title on him.  You're right about Taz though.

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  26. So what was the deal with Mitchell sending out copies to PPV outlets?   Did he have some sort of established axe to grind?  Did he ever talk about his own rationale in doing something like that?

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  27. Long story short, Sabu and Taz were Tag Champs in 1995. Sabu no-showed a big ECW show for a better offer in Japan. Sabu was legit fired from ECW for it. While Sabu was gone, Taz transitioned from his Tazmaniac caveman character into Taz, the Human Suplex Machine mega-heel. Paul E. turned the legit heat between Taz and Sabu from the incident into an angle after Sabu returned to ECW in late '95. Fights between them were teased numerous times, and the angle was dragged out until the first PPV.

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  28. I'm honestly a little upset that the Assorted April countdowns didn't include Spring Stampede.

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  29. I don't think I've ever heard the whole story about Mitchell and the Crucifixion angle. Did that ever make air? I watched ECW whenever I could find it on MSG back in the day and don't remember ever seeing it, only having it alluded to in various places. 

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  30. I think this show got a lot of love because it was so different from what the big 2 were doing at the time, rather than for good wrestling. Plus this was the first time a lot of people outside the Northeast got to see ECW.

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  31. Agreed. The tag match between Raven/Saturn and Benoit/Malenko is still one of my favourite tag matches of all time. It also proved how capable Raven and Saturn were given the right opponents and environment. Plus the opener between Juventud and Blitzrieg was pretty damn awesome too and I found the hardcore match between Bigelow and Sandman very enjoyable. 

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  32. Apparently Heyman and Mitchell just plain hated each other, or more specifically Paul hated the Torch website itself.

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  33. Fall Brawl 2000 comes close to being great but the mostly dead crowd kind of hurt it.  And dear Lord it was so stupid to have the Goldberg/Steiner match there and NOT at Starrcade.

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  34. I agree. Adam. I didn't see ECW during its heyday. I also watch ECW with the "grain of salt" theory in my head. Once Benoit, Guerrero, and Malenko left in '95 and then Cactus Jack and Superstar Steve Austin in '96 ECW became hardcore everything. It's amazing that Paul didn't brainwash the audience. He brainwashed the wrestlers.

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  35. Something that I don't think many people are familiar with is the fact that Todd Gordon was considering running an ECW pay-per-view from the Spectrum as early as 1994, with the third match of a trilogy between Shane Douglas and Ric Flair as the main event (the first two at house shows in Charlotte and Pittsburgh), that would be 55+ minute matches with Shane winning the two in Philadelphia. Paul Heyman and Arn Anderson were the go-betweens on the deal, and the potential match are what (partially) prompted Shane's "Flair is Dead" battle cry.

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  36. Oddest? You mean coolest. The WWE could learn a thing or two about building a main event like the one between The Shogun and Bruce Leroy.

    Speaking of which. I think Booker T would make a perfect Shogun if they ever remade the movie.

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  37. Correct me if I'm wrong but was the Mass Transit incident truly the only time a wrestler has sued for getting hurt in the ring? You would think that's something that happens all the time.

    Either way that whole thing was pretty fucked up. Didn't New Jack make fun of the kid for being a pussy or something? After he severed the kid's artery and nearly killed him? And didn't New Jack win trial? What a fucked up place ECW was.

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  38. unfortunately, yes. at least for me personally, Barely Legal is not the start but the end for the "original" ECW.

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  39. Scott said it best. Heyman was great at the build up but wasn't so great at the execution. Much like Russo he worked best with a guy like Vince to kinda of center his storylines. Better than Russo but still even Heyma had a tendency to go slightly astray if left on his own. That's why when he was booking for WWE they had some great angles.  But even Heyman was guilty of trying to push the guys he wanted instead of what the fans wanted. Look at how he tried to force Justin Credible down everyone's throat at the end.

    But I think this one was because of all the reasons everyone else said about Funk being respected and Heyman wanting to give him a thanks for helping. But also they were filming Beyond the Mat a this show. And the movie was focusing on Terry Funk. So I'm sure Heyman was also thinking that his first PPV could get some mainstream cred and focus in the movie if Funk won the title.

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  40.  maybe he's confusing it with the Funk, Douglas, Sabu 3 way from 94?

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  41.  yeah that match with all the buildup was begging for a WWE style recap piece.  Love or hate WWE, they have long been the gold standard in summarizing why a match matters in a short time, often with a great music video package

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  42. Well the Funk/Douglas/Sabu trio had a rematch of the 94 one at the second ECW PPV, so maybe that's where confusion comes in.

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  43. Well I mean if people are UPSET about it, I'm sure I can do those too. There's still 2 weeks until Extreme Rematches and I'm running out of Backlashes.

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  44. Yeah, New Jack won because the kid pestered him to do the cutting and Jack was correctly hesitant about doing it to someone who was in their first match. I believe it was established that Jack actually made every effort to warn and dissuade him from doing it, but the kid pretty much took full responsibility for it.

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  45. I'd say when they went to TNN was the true nail in the coffin for them, and I'm not even blaming the cable network for all of that.

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  46. You didn't miss too much. ECW was kind of like internet porn, as in there was some good stuff, but you had to wade through a ton of crap to find it. The good stuff was worth the trouble, however, Dreamer/Raven is still my all-time favorite angle. They had 2 big problems: one was that as soon as a guy got the least bit over you knew he'd be gone to WCW. The other was the WWF going in the same direction as ECW in 1998 or so. Why watch ECW (assuming you could) when the WWF was pretty much doing the same thing, only with better workers and WAY better production values. ECW looked like something off the public access channel, and probably was on public access in some markets. ROH reminds me of ECW these days, and not in a good way.

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  47. I have one thing to say to this: 

    YES! YES! YES!

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  48. No confusion.  This was the first time barbed wire appeared on PPV in the states.  Also the first 3 way match on PPV that doesn't involve tags.  Michaels and Hall never used the ladder as a weapon quite like Funk did.  Its just that particular style of hardcore (especially with 3 guys involved) hadn't really been seen outside of Cactus Jack in WCW.  I mean we got hints of it with the Nasty Boys, Benoit/Sullivan, and Public Enemy using tables, but nothing with blood AND barbed wire.  And ladders were never used to that effect.  So intentional or not, its a pretty famous and influential match.

    The Night the Line Was Crossed wasn't an actual Triple Threat Match/Three Way Dance since only Douglas worked the whole thing.

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  49. TheRealCitizenSnipsApril 16, 2012 at 2:25 PM

    I also have sex!!!!!

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  50. 1. re: No team will be able to touch the Dudleys belt wise: Take the NWA and ECW belts out of the equation and the Hardys could. But that's kinda like saying RVD and Jeff Jarrett could break Jericho's IC title record.

    2. The only other ECW match you gave ***** to was that Pitbulls v. Raven/Stevie dog collar tag title "pitbulls break up forever if they lose" clusterfuck, if memory serves. (And I mean "clusterfuck" in a good way; I'm sure you got some shit for rating that match that high, but I think they earned it. A shock, too, since the Pitbulls make Kronik look like Haas & Benjamin.)

    3. LOT of dead folks on this one. Candido, Kronus(when did that happen?), Rude, the Bingo Hall itself.........it's not that one WM where you can't go 3 matches without seeing someone who passed, but it's close.

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  51. The diamond cutter taunt or the Eddie Guerrero arms spread/wave hands taunt were the best you were gonna get. You could make a pretty swank one on No Mercy later by changing the colors on Kurt Angle's singlet.

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  52.  And on the ECW doc, Angle says that he wasn't so much offended by the crucifixion, it was that everyone was falling all over themselves to apologize for it and Heyman said to him "Sorry, I had no idea they were going to do that." which made Angle think they were bush-league. I think the fact that Stevie & Meanie were both former altarboys and felt a bunch of Catholic guilt about doing it was what really offended people so much.

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  53.  You are very right in that people aren't familiar with that. Now that you mention that it sounds somewhat familiar, and it goes a little way towards explaining Douglas's weird Flair obsession. Very nice.

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  54. So wait, Flair was willing to work with Douglas back in 1994?  What happened?

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  55. Kronus died right after the Benoit thing so it was kind of an Elvis/Groucho Marx situation.

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  56.  Well, New Jack has a criminal record and a college degree, so he knows how to make decisions!

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  57. One thing I'll never come around to Scott's way of thinking on is the idea that ECW sucked. ECW to me was so much more genuinely exciting than WWF or WCW, for the most part, that it amazes me more people didn't get into it. Heyman is the all time world champion turd polisher, in that he took a roster full of castoffs and untalented stiffs and somehow managed to hide their weaknesses and emphasize their strengths to where his promotion became one of the hottest and most influential wrestling companies in the world. People forget that, even in the dying days of both companies, ECW PPVs often outsold WCW's on ticket sales.

    As for this show, it's severely underrated by Scott and a lot of other people, IMO. While some of the matches might be "spot fests" (a term which really fucking bugs me, because it seems to be applied to any fact paced match where people do unique things, which seems infinitely preferable to me than a slug like Mark Henry working a perfect "formula" for a match but doing the same 2 boring moves) and the Douglas/Pitbull and RVD/Storm matches were a misfire, this show still had its share of memorable moments. The opening tag was great, IMO, and I thought Terry Funk's booking in this time period did wonders for him & his career. Like, while every other old timer that was still scraping along in WCW would piss on "garbage wrestling" in ECW, you take Funk, who's more old school than all those guys, and push him to be the toughest old fuck on the planet. Instant cred, and for whatever reason, I was a huge mark for him & Foley getting over as tough guys who excelled at taking a beating and persevering.

    If WWE Network ever actually launches, watching all the ECW TVs from the beginning will be the main thing I'm interested in.

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  58. BTW, before anyone asks, the ECW match Scott gave 5 stars to was The Pitbulls vs. Raven & Stevie Richards double dog collar tag match, which ended up working in Tommy Dreamer, Brian Lee, 911, and Bill Alfonso. If I ever wanted to show someone "ECW in a nutshell" that match was it.

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  59.  Can't speak for anyone else, but I *really* can't stand 'hardcore' wrestling.  As for spotfests, I always took it to mean a match where there are bunches of moves thrown together without rhyme or reason, with no regards for psychology.

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  60. ECW was like a Michael Bay movie:  excitement and explosions all around, but that's about it.  It was much better IMO when every single match wasn't "hardcore".  And what I mean is that even if the rules allowed you to use weapons every match, not everyone did so.  Once everyone started using weapons in every match, it ruined a lot of the appeal for me.  That and losing nearly every *good* wrestler so all that was left were bad wrestlers hitting each other with shit.

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  61. The hardcore thing was the coolest thing ever to me at the time.  I don't know if it was just the fact that it was something I'd never seen before or the fact that I was 15 years old.  I don't knock ECW for doing something great at the time.  They energized people who used to be wrestling fans (like me) and made them enjoy wrestling again even without having much to work with.  My only criticism of them is that their product aged extremely poorly and in 2012 I have between little and no interest at all in rewatching some of the stuff from 1996. 

    As you said, I can't speak for anyone else either but that's just my thought on the whole deal. 

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  62.  I thought the card was pretty good top to bottom, other than maybe the main event, which I barely remember other than the finish. Even something like Goldberg vs. Nash was at least satisfying in that it went exactly how it should have.

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  63. ECW was excellent up till 1997 but by 2000 Heyman was clearly delusional trying to push Justin Credible as ECW champion when he had Tajiri RIGHT THERE.  Or if he wanted a heel, Steve Corino.

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  64. From what everything I can google, it was the Mass Transit Incident that Mitchell sent the tape in on.  Actually it be both, like Scott said.

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  65. The Road Warriors won the WWF, AWA, NWA, NWA six-man (w/ Dusty Rhodes) and All-Japan International Belts.  Pretty good, when you factor in the nature of those four promotions in the 80s.

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  66.  Here's my thing about that: I feel like hardcore had very little to do with the appeal of ECW. It helped cover for some of the guys who couldn't work that well, but if they'd found some other way of going about looking good, they could've done that and with the same formula that Paul E. used ECW would have still been a huge success. I hate the current iterations of hardcore, with all the broken glass and nonsense. But limiting it to the "train wreck" style, with tables & chairs and brawling in the crowd? That I'm all for every day, because it was always fun, in ECW and in WWE.

    As for spotfests, if you can have a match with interesting offense and great individual spots that flows really well with psychology and tells a great story, you've just won at wrestling all around, and the ones who've done that are some of the greatest. But I'm just more partial to interesting moves and moments. If someone has a match that gets the "formula" down perfect and does everything when they're supposed to do it, but they mainly just use bodyslams and chinlocks with some punchkick thrown in, I'm not going to enjoy it as much as a shorter match where guys just throw themselves at each other. It's kinda like the difference between watching Breaking Bad and, say, Justified. I know Breaking Bad is better, and their best episodes will blow other shows right out of the water. But Justified is easier to watch, because it's more fun and faster paced.

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  67. As much as we all shit on Crash TV style overbooking, that match is probably the pinnacle of that style.  It worked in like four or five different feuds, downright insane spots, and the He-Man no selling of finishers that has directly influenced almost every single main event in every major promotion since then.  It's basically the match starts, crazy shit happens, and you have no time to catch your breath.  But it's one of the few times that it actually works because of how tightly constructed everything was, as opposed to something like Russo's I-C Title mess with Ryan Shamrock fucking (or trying to fuck) four different dudes while her brother goes into a roid rage and Goldust has a bizarre mother/son relationship with Blue Meanie.  I think people only saw Heyman's style as overbooking for overbooking's sake without realizing the guy tended to keep things semi-coherent by keeping it as simple as possible: Dreamer hates Raven, the Pitbulls hate Raven, Raven has a group of flunkies protecting him, and everyone hates Bill Alfonso.

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  68. Problems here are:

    A) Richards, along with Raven and Saturn, were already formulating an exit strategy to WCW around this point.  They hadn't signed deals, but I believe they were already negotiating.

    B) Richards suffered a severe neck injury from having the guard rail dropped on his head at this show.  It limited his ability to wrestle for a few years after this.

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  69. Given the crude shit Angle's said in public, and the angles he's willingly involved himself in (threatening to rape Booker's wife?!), I'm not so sure he was as offended as people tend to believe.

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  70. Although now I prefer having a full-time job and regular sex and stuff.I was thinking the other day about how much time I used to spend watching wrestling and it blew my mind to imagine spending half a day watching Nitro episodes. When did I ever have so much time? 

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  71. Yes, but Kurt Angle in 1996 was a far cry from the "Twitter hacked" Kurt Angle of today. 

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  72.  I didn't get into ECW until pretty late.  I had a friend who was into it send me a couple tapes in early 98.  From there I started watching and I ended up getting copies of almost all the shows available from RF video.  At that point hardcore stuff was new and exciting to me.  I even got some Japanese Death match stuff from a tape trader.  However now it just seems tired.  So many of the matches from ECW don't age well, but the booking sure does.  In watching the tapes I have and the weekly show on WWE 24/7 the booking was simply outstanding.  Up until Taz ditched him, Heyman was still putting on a pretty entertaining show, even if the wrestling wasn't always top notch.  The excitement level was off the charts.  But once Taz left, Heyman simply had lost too many bullets and didn't have the ammunition anymore.  He found some stuff with Super Crazy/Tajiri/guido and RVD/Lynn but injuries kept rearing their ugly head.  The talent drain was just too much by late 99 with even guys like Whipreck and Sandman getting contracts. 

    I totally agree that watching ECW TV from day one would be awesome.  i saw the shows in 95 and 96 so I did get to see the glory days of Foley and some great Dreamer/Raven stuff, plus the rise of Taz but I would love to see the 94 stuff, the original triple threat, etc.

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  73. Not good decisions, obviously.

    2 questions:

    1) Isn't New Jack still forbidden to go into either Kentucky or Tennessee due to an outstanding warrant from his bounty hunting days?

    2) Mass Transit...this guy was an evil bus driver? Was the plan to bring in Duke Droese as his tag partner? (The Civil Service Connection? Their tag finisher could be called the StrikeBreaker.)

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  74. Yeah, but then they'd try and give us Chris Tucker, or worse......*shudder* Eddie Murphy as Bruce Leroy.

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  75. 3 fair questions:

    a) If ECW sucked SO BADLY, why did both promotions (as FREELY admitted on DVD releases) STEAL so much from ECW?
    b) If ECW were in existence today, it would be eons better than anything else on major cable TV
    c) How did both companies COMPLETELY miss the boat and not bring in Joel Gertner as a heel manager? Even NOW! (He'd do a much better job than ADR)

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