Hey Scotty,
With all the hullabaloo about Brock Lesnar and Daniel Bryan since Wrestlemania, I have to ask. Do you think the WWE are going to use up one of Brock's matches against Daniel Bryan. I bet the two of them could have an epic David vs. Goliath matchup. My concern is that you'd have to feed Brock a few victims to really build up the importance of D-Bryan being able to hang for longer than a few minutes with him?
Also, with John Laurenit-whoever you spell it pitching Punk to defend his title every week, do you think they're doing a Batman: Knightfall type angle, with Punk so exhausted from beating everyone else that Brock can just step in, break his back and walk off with the title?
Finally, even though I said I'd retire from asking for a plug, like all good wrestlers, I LIED! :) Any chance you could plug my wonderful and not at all Batman biased Top 30 Comic Book Films of All Time http://bit.ly/sDvokz
Thanks, your old friend,
That Film Guy
My god man, are you trying to cause the implosion of the universe due to the awesomeness of two money-drawing blog topics being pitted against each other in a battle for the ages? If so, WELL PLAYED. YES! YES! YES!
As for the serious answer, I’m pretty certain they’re keeping Bryan far away from Brock given they apparently have to pay out more than their usual PPV break-even point just to get him in the ring. David and Goliath is nice when someone thinks David has a shot, but they’re better off having Brock go through the big guns and making all their money back.
For question 2, yes. Brock is THE GUY and you need to get the belt on THE GUY, so whether it’s Brock dismantling Punk or the more likely scenario of them putting the belt onto a bigger draw and having Brock dismantle THEM, yes, Punk seems to be on borrowed time with that belt.
And no, I will not plug your site.
I know Vince and company thought this through, but even so and no matter how many assurances I may have gotten from Lesnar, in the back of my mind I would always be worried about pushing him hard, and then him up and quitting.
ReplyDeleteBryan obviously isn't at that level NOW, but with a solid year of build? There are certainly worse ideas than capitalizing on Bryan's new-found popularity and booking him to use his 18-second defeat as motivation to get better.
ReplyDeleteAs a story, it'd be very much like Brock/Eddie, or any other big-time David/Goliath match.
Where's he going to go? Can't do football, MMA is out, TNA? Could they afford him?
ReplyDeleteConsidering the company's penchant for punishing anyone who got over (or in Brock's case, more over) in a way that was not specifically designated by the company (see Ryder, Zack), I can't say I'd be shocked to see them put against each other. And done in a way that doesn't really help either guy.
ReplyDeleteI don't think my heart could take Brock vs. Bryan.
ReplyDeleteI'm not holding out hope for the big Bryan push everyone thinks is coming. *Semi-Smackdown Spoiler Alert* They don't seem to know what to do with him and are probably going to do the John Cena in 2005 routine of using every booking trick in wrestling history to try to get the desired reaction rather than just go with how the fans are reacting. And, to be fair, let's wait and see if he keeps getting those reactions on a consistent basis.
ReplyDeleteBut Bryan vs Brock? It'd be awesome. I don't know why they're making Bryan yet another champion who isn't good enough to be champion - he's one of the best wrestlers in the world and can back that up in the ring. Even if they must have him be a heel, couldn't he just be the type of heel champion who gets heat be cause he's a jerk that you want to lose but who's really hard to actually beat? But if they did decide to push him as a face, and not a joke, a match with Brock would be great - this huge, powerful monster with actual wrestling skill and a legit fighting background vs a guy who's regarded as one of the best wrestlers in the world, but much, much smaller.
Also love the Punk idea. It's something like the MITB cash-in, but it's more legit. Rather than have Punk hanging around exhausted after a match and lose to a guy who hits one move, have him wrestle week after week, subtly showing signs of wearing down, being injured, exhausted...then after he just guts out a win and is clearly worn out, announce that he's facing Brock the next week. Much like the Bryan idea, you have a small but great wrestler trying to take down the dominant monster in Brock.
I never liked Brock as a face. I'm sure he could work as one if that's the way they're going, but I think the storylines work better if he's a heel. I'm not sure what they're going to do with him and Cena - Cena sticking to the "I lost to the better man but I won't change who I am" thing seems really, really forced at this point, but I can't see them turning him heel for Brock.
Danielson has the ability to do a great David/Goliath match. Check out his epic bouts against Samoa Joe in ROH. (Fight of the Century was just a Hell of a match.)
ReplyDeleteBut I don't see how anyone benefits from Brock having the belt. He's already so far above the rest of the roster. I would like to see WWE just acknowledge he's only back for a year and have the storyline be Brock has a hit list of unfinished business and he came back to work his way through that list. Then, have him mow through Cena, Orton, HHH, and anyone else and then have him do the job to Punk or Bryan or whomever the WWE wants to be their star of the future.
I think he's got enough money in the bank that he doesn't really have to go anywhere. I read somewhere that he made $6M just last year from UFC, and it's not like he's out there blowing cash like Ric Flair.
ReplyDeleteHe doesn't have to go anywhere necessarily. He should have more than enough money, but he isn't someone who loves the business. Hopefully, he can stick it out for a year.
ReplyDeleteThey've really punished CM Punk for the last 9 months.
ReplyDeleteI know this isn't going to be popular with all the Byran fans, but is it possible that he's not quite as over as everyone wants to believe? I don't think that everyone who ever chanted "What?" was doing it as a tribute to Stone Cold. I'm guessing that a lot of people chanting "Yes!" didn't even know whose catchphrase they were chanting at the start of the show. People like being part of the show, and chanting Yes is a fun and easy thing to do to get involved.
ReplyDeleteHe is the exception, not the rule. Rob Van Dam, Chris Jericho, Kane, Booker T, Kofi Kingston (to an extent), Zack Ryder and Christian stand as examples on the other side.
ReplyDeleteDid these same people also chant 'Daniel Bryan!' without knowing who he is? Doubtful.
ReplyDeleteDanielson/Morishima from Manhattan Mayhem II was another stellar match with a guy Brock's size. Mostly wrestled with a detached retina, too.
ReplyDeleteI think the people trying to claim this is the start of some Stone Cold, Austin 3:16 revolution are funny. I will more start to believe it if this lasts for weeks/months at a time and in a state other than Florida.
ReplyDeleteAll of those save for Zack Ryder are people that heldWorld Championships, I am not counting Kofi because no one has clamored for him to be pushed as anything more than he is, a popular mid-carder. Just because they weren't pushed at the exact moment doesn't mean anything in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteKofi was punished because he angered the almighty Orton; they were actually pushing Kofi hard at the time. That was just an example of WWE cutting off their nose to spite their face.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it make more sense to build him like crazy (including getting the WWE title) until Royal Rumble, have him lose to the rock there, then get him the World title at and have him lose that at Wrestlemania? Losing to the Rock isn't going to hurt his cred at all, and the loss at mania to someone other than the rock might actually help push someone like Punk that last bit into superduper star status.
ReplyDeleteI mean, the way this wrestlemania worked out is fine for one year, but if you keep just having special talent fight special talent, once they leave and your roster of guys who never got any sort of rub from the special talent are left out their floundering like fish, you might notice how short term your approach has been.
Plus, I mean, Wrestlemania doesn't need Rock/Brock. that will Print a bank vault if they announce it next week for the week after. If you do those two at rumble then job them both to regular guys at mania, you've got a chance to make two guys look like a million bucks.
If Brock's going to carry the belt then the reader's Knightfall suggestion is excellent. Keeps Punk strong. However, why not wait until Summerslam or later to have that match? There's no rush to get the belt on Brock and he looks a few months away from being in top shape.
ReplyDeleteI don't see much point in him going over the current upper-midcarders/main eventers. Does more harm than good IMO. Put him over other part-timers like HHH in 'special attraction' matches. The loss does HHH no harm and it doesn't make the current roster look like a bunch of losers.
Matt Hardy also got a bit of that type of reaction after the whole Lita/Edge thing didn't he? And Zack Ryder managed to get himself quite over and have crowds chant his name, but thanks to the booking, he's back at lower card levels now...so who knows if anything will come out of this.
ReplyDeleteWhy are we excited about two special attractions hogging the main events for a year at the expense of the rest of the roster exactly?
ReplyDeleteThe idea that what amounts to a celebrity attraction should run through the entire roster only to finally fall to ANOTHER celebrity attraction is beyond bizarre.
Granted, I don't know what else they should do but the fact that we're excited about the idea of the whole roster being jobbed seems decidedly anti-IWC.
Meanwhile, on the strength of WrestleMania and the Brock return...the stock just hit a 52 week low.
Isn't what Scott been saying very similar to the things that people complained about in WCW/TNA? With Rock, Brock(and possibly Batista), the WWE is in a nostalgia kick, and more importantly, if Rock is any indication, they're willing to put them over talent that will be with them year round.
ReplyDeleteSo, how is this different? Like othes, I'm not a fan of what Scott is advocating, that Brock should just run through every WWE wrestler. I got tired of Triple H doing that, and I'll get tired of Brock doing that too.
Good one!! I totally forgot about that one and I *love* that match! The entire feud was great!
ReplyDeleteI'm with you. I mean, I can sort of see putting the Rock over Cena- it's a one time thing and it's a sort of thank you to a guy who put basically everyone they wanted over, in his home town.
ReplyDeleteBrock's run should really end with putting someone who needs it over, after steamrolling the special attractions. Punk makes the most sense to me- he can make a reasonable beef about the part timer having the belt, He's sort of a main eventer without being that super duper level, it'd be a fun match... but any number of guys with a year of build could fill the role.
But just declaring that the only guy who can put this monster away is another part timer who is only wrestling a few matches a year seems counter productive.
Am I the only person that was disappointed with the Brock Lesnar "run-in"? He's gone from being a freak of nature to Leon White with the opposite haircut. Only Leon White could actually run.
ReplyDeleteHe's better get his ass into shape soon, or the reaction he gets at Wrestlemania XXIX might be the same as his Wrestlemania XX reaction.
You're not the target demographic.
ReplyDeleteLet's wait for that WM buyrate before we decide whether or not we enjoyed WM. And if Raw doesn't break a 4.0 next week then that means I thought the Brock return was shit.
Whew, well at least you didn't waste my time with a point!
ReplyDeleteJohn Cena getting crazy over as a rapper wasn't by design. The fans latched on to Batista, and they strapped the rocket to his back a few months after jobbing him to Jericho, Edge, and Benoit.
ReplyDeleteYes, sometimes... hell a LOT of times they fuck up what look to be sure things that fell into their laps. But this theory that Vince gets ANGRY when a wrestler he's not actively pushing gets over without their help is crazy and illogical. He ran with Steve Austin, a guy with a southern accent (which Vince supposedly hated about JR) and a long track record of being nothing but a good hand. If you can make Vince McMahon money he does not get angry with you.
These backstage reports of stuff like that are designed to work the online fans up. Just look at the news today. Apparently Brock Lesnar hated John Cena back in 03 and purposely sabotaged their match at Backlash. He repeatedly went to Vince to bash Cena. Funny we haven't heard about any of this before Brock showed up on Raw this week to confront... John Cena!
Forget target demographic. It's bad long-term business to build your show around two guys who aren't gonna be around on tax day next year.
ReplyDeleteNot saying Brock or Rock shouldn't get a title run but if they don't use the opportunity to create a new star then they
I admit, I love the idea of Johhny Ace wearing out Punk to the point of being broken by Brock, but alas, that is a comic book storyline and WWE writers aren't comic book geeks. They are the 80's Patrick Dempsey movie 'nerd gets girl' geeks. Time for better geeks!
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind, he had only been training to fall on people and beat the shit out of them, not to dance his entrance jig and execute moves without hurting people.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Rock/Cena going over Miz/Truth was a very TNA-ish thing to do in regards of burying the younger talent, but Rock going over Cena is more akin to Sting going over Kurt Angle, not Bobby Roode. Cena's been an established guy for like 7 years now. If they start feeding Bryan and Punk to Rock and Brock, then yea that'd be pretty hypocritical if they enjoy seeing that.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is Lesnar did that in his initial run.
ReplyDeleteWhy be excited? Because Rock and Brock are two wrestlers that are interested in being the best and rise to the occasion when called on. Apparently, there are hordes of WWE wrestlers nowadays simply happy being seen on TV, even to the degree where they get mad at the prospect of receiving GIANT PPV paychecks because they didn't get the chance to apply a chinlock for 15 mins.
ReplyDeleteYou never hear these guys bitch about pushes when it's WWE management screwing them, only when people that haven't wrestled in years are able to return to make them look bad, though they are there every night.
These guys are totally missing the point of why they are in underpants, pretending to hurt one another in predetermined matches and now, they are paying for their ignorance.
Hmmm... Set up a Brock as Bane angle where he breaks Punk's back during the same summer as Dark Knight Rises - starring Bane - comes out? That sounds like way too coordinated an effort (and way too logical) for the WWE.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame, too, because it would be an awesome angle.
Dude, calm down. I didn't ask why be excited, that was chin wins up there. You aren't really responding to anything I said, but here goes: I was more agreeing with the overall sentiment that just having the special attraction guys put over each other is silly- if you're paying this big salary for Lesnar, you need him to turn some of the guys who are going to be around into a bigtime star.
ReplyDeleteAlso, no one bitches when WWE does it because it's their employer who can job them out and shit on them for the fun of it. that's just sorta life.
I don't mind the special attractions, but it is short sighted business to not try and get some rub on guys that need it.
also, your tone is all over the place. Brock is interested in being the best? Brock is interested in making Bank, not dealing with anyone and flying back to Minnesota before he wants to rip Vince's head off. Which is fine, but you're sugar coating Brock and crapping on the mid card guys when life exists in shades of grey.
While I'd love to see it on PPV, isn't Brock obligated to do something like a minimum of two appearances a month? Which means he could occasionally wrestle on TV. Remember the Lesnar/Angle Iron Man match on Smackdown? Now imagine Danielson/Morishima. Give Lesnar and Bryan 30 minutes on RAW. Your ratings aren't gonna pop huge or drop dramatically either way, so you can take a risk on a violent, crazy brawl where Brock tosses Bryan around like a ragdoll, Bryan makes his awesomely improbable but still awesome comebacks, and Brock wins clean. Everyone comes out better for it.
ReplyDeleteThey already did the broken back angle with Kane and Ryder and...it didn't go well.
ReplyDelete.......uh, more YES!! YES!! YES-ing and Daniel Bryan-ing.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but Brock is much better at throwing around wheel-chair bound cripples named "Zach".
ReplyDeleteWell, it's not exactly like his "run-in" was actually a run-in; it was deliberately slow, to build tension.
ReplyDeleteIn Batista's case, he was a homegrown talent who the fans started to get behind rather than get behind the other homegrown talent they were trying to push at the time. They were really just trading one guy they wanted to push for another.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to know what the reasons were for not pushing guys like RVD, Jericho or Booker. Was it simply because they were from another company? Lacking in some area we didn't notice? There's no way they could of heard the reactions and not recognize them, but they didn't push those guys. Was there some legit reason? Age? How they worked? Mic skills? Like you said, they weren't doing anything with Cena and he got himself over with the rapper character, so they went with it. Why listen to the fan reactions and push him and ignore others?
Vince had no choice but to push Austin, as WCW as winning the ratings war and the WWF had to run with whatever was hot. If a young Austin came along today, the producers and writers in the back would find all sorts of excuses to keep him at a midcard-or-lower level.
ReplyDeleteBatista did get over with the fans and got the rocket push, but he was a big muscular guy --- the type Vince is always looking for an excuse to push anyway. Had Mason Ryan been getting big pops last autumn, you can bet Ryan would've been in a big match at Mania.
I would've marked the hell out if it'd been Leon White coming out to powerbomb Cena.
ReplyDeleteSo if Brock is the Bane to Punk's Batman, who's going to be the Jean Paul Valley?
ReplyDeleteNot to be "that guy", but he really didn't run through the roster - he beat the Hardys, RVD, and Rock. That's it. From there, he was booked evenly with Taker, Show, Angle, and Benoit, before jobbing to Eddie.
ReplyDeleteHe never fought Austin, Trips, or Shawn, and never had a feud (or possibly any matches, I don't remember) with Booker, Edge, Jericho, Rey, or a number of other upper-carders.
Probably Jean Paul Levesque, I'd imagine.
ReplyDeleteI've wondered how much of guys complaining is working the internet. I mean, Hornswoggle maybe was legit, but I get the sense that Punk was pushing his character. Look at AJ's twitter, they're using social media (and possibly the dirt sheets) to work the fans.
ReplyDeleteWell, Ace, it was pretty obvious by the way I used Chin's statement to open my response that it was directed towards him. However, I'll pay the fine or whatever for parking it in the wrong place.
ReplyDeleteWe both agree Lesnar and Rock shouldn't be fed the roster, but then again, how many people on the roster are stepping up and demanding to get a shot? Your life lesson may be applicable in the cubicle drone world, but traditionally, the way wrestlers get ahead is by being proactive. There are no turns, nothing is promised just because they show up.
You don't think CM Punk paid for bitching backstage? Did it deter him from trying to break that ceiling? If Steve Austin decided to sit on his thumb as The Ringmaster, would WWE even exist today?
No one has ever been drummed out of WWE for wanting to be the guy and saying so. They might get tested, but the great ones always stuck it out and usually succeeded. That's how you make it.
I don't want to get flamed for this, because I love Jericho, but his character as a face was an upper mid-card face. Because of his character and his in-ring style, I just didn't really buy him as the face of the promotion. It didn't help that when he turned heel they turned him into a chickenshit heel. Had Jericho been 2008 heel Chris Jericho in 2001/2002? Ho-ly shit, that would have been a license to print money.
ReplyDeleteIf I get a job with them, they'll have a comic geek on the roster.
ReplyDeleteTriple H? He's blond, muscle-bound, and not as good as the guy he'd be replacing!
ReplyDeleteListen, if we got an iron man match between DBD and Brock I might need y'alls help finding my shit, I would have lost all my shit.
ReplyDeleteHow much shit would be lost exactly?
ReplyDeleteRVD was and continues to be a pot-head, shit on the mic, dangerous in the ring, and really not that good at selling.
ReplyDeleteJericho was a loud-mouth with absolutely zero credibility (seriously, none of Jericho's pre-2008 characters had any sort of menace to them at all).
And Booker? Um, he was black? Vince hates dreads maybe? I'd say similar problems to RVD. Yeah he was better on the mic, but his in-ring skills weren't nearly as flashy and pop getting.
Sable might be though...
ReplyDeleteWWE should give Sheamus & Lesnar parallel Goldberg (WCW) pushes leading to a huge showdown at Survivor Series or RR, I think they would have excellent chemistry.
ReplyDeleteComplaining=/= trying for advancement,
ReplyDeletenot complaining =/=contentment.
You can in fact, strive to be better in ways that don't amount to telling dirt sheets so. Like, are we talking about them as people, or the in character stuff here? I honestly can't what you're arguing for, outside of some generic motivational speech crap like "show me some fire" and "bring your A game every time."
I mean, are you cutting a promo on me right now, brother? How did we get here? This is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife.
Yeah, that's too easy. The better question is who becomes the Tim Drake and Dick Grayson role? Zack Ryder and Santino?
ReplyDelete