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Deleting Benoit from History

I have never bought a WWE DVD, so I have to ask: what does WWE do with matches, shows, or highlights that include Chris Benoit?  When Wrestlemania 30 comes and they release some massive box set of blu-rays to commemorate it, how do they handle Wrestlemanias 16 thru 23?  Surely they can't just completely ignore Wrestlemania 20's main event or the first Money in the Bank ladder match at #21.  At least with Eddie Guerrero, they don't completely ignore the man's existence, but obviously they have some understandable trepidation about Benoit's inclusion in their releases.


Well it's not like they're blurring the guy out of the DVDs or anything.  He was present in the Elimination Chamber DVD, for instance.  They're just not going to include matches with him where it's not absolutely necessary, like say on an Edge DVD.  

Comments

  1. Shame for Jericho since an important portion of his career revolved around benoit.

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  2. From day 1, I thought this whole "delete Benoit and don't mention his name" scthick was retarded.   That doesn't mean they have to release Benoit DVDs, or go into great detail about him.....but I don't see the pure evil in having him show up in a match that happens to be on someone else's DVD.

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  3. This is primarily why we will never get a "Best of Orlando Jordan" DVD

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  4. A few years back on WWE 24/7, nearly all mentions of Benoit were erased and he'd only be shown on camera if he was standing around in the background. These days it seems they're a bit more lenient.

    I think they'll show him in compilation DVDs but, like Scott said, only when absolutely necessary. They also seem to shy against any commentary that puts him over.

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  5. Because showing a violent psychopath violently suplexing people isn't the greatest idea.

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  6. They still scrub his matches and edit the announcers when they mention him on the Monday Night Wars show on Classics on Demand. If he is standing in the background during a Flair promo they usually don't edit it out though unless he talks. The only time they didn't edit out him getting physical was during a backstage brawl between nWo and the Horsemen.

    I bet in the next 50 years they'll eventually release a documentary on that whole weekend.

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  7. Kurt Angle too, if he ever ends up in good enough political graces to get a set.

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  8. I don't buy this reasoning.  It's not like anyone who remembers his death is going to forget he was in WWE if they just don't mention him.  OJ Simpson isn't edited out of Naked Gun.

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  9. From day 1 it's seemed to me like the most sensible idea given the circumstances. As ETB757 said, they've become more open to including him on DVDs, but I really feel it's best to keep it to an absolute minimum. I recently rewatched the WMXX main event, and although I could still appreciate the technical value of the match, the emotional response - which was significant for me, and much of its appeal - had gone. There is also the possibility that other wrestlers don't want their matches against him featured on the DVDs. Imagine knowing that guy, thinking highly of him, having the best match of your career against him - and then he does what he did. Of the multitude of feelings you'd have, I'm sure 'gee, it's a shame that great match we had won't be seen again' wouldn't rank highly.

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  10. I understand not acknowledging the guy, but I totally disagree with pretending he never existed or erasing anything he was involved in from history. They don't have to go out of their way to promote his matches, but he did win a Royal Rumble and headline WrestleMania, so it's ridiculous to edit anything to do with those events.

    Case in point, the Randy Orton DVD - becoming the youngest World Champion in history is a huge significant moment in Randy's career, but it wasn't allowed to be shown or even mentioned on his DVD. They didn't have to be all 'Oh, what a great champion Benoit was' but the least they could have done was include the match.

    ... and yes, I know, Benoit was a murderer, real life comes before wrestling etc. etc. Doesn't mean his career never happened.

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  11. I tried to write this several times, but, basically, I'm fine not seeing his face on my television again.

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  12. Benoit got some of  Mohammed's goo from Rob Reiner , that is why he is invisible on WWE TV. Fact.

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  13. Completely different. Did OJ Simpson being in Naked Gun contribute to what he did? No. Did Benoit's involvement in wrestling matches contribute not only lead to his own suicide, but to the psychopathic behaviour which cause him to murder his wife and child? Almost certainly.

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  14. I would buy aKurt Angle set, but it won't happen unless he stops being crazy and leaves TNA/retires. He really burned his bridge on the way out.

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  15. I'm with you on keeping it to a minimum.   But for instance, on a Randy Orton DVD, it'll look really goofy trying to brush away the moment that sent him on his path to greatness (and becoming the youngest WHC in history).  So it's kinda like...show the match, but don't have any extended commentary that references Benoit. 

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  16. We must have been writing our responses at the same time...because I replied to Ioan Morris down below with basically the same point you made.

    So yeah, I agree.

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  17. True, but again, that may not be a fond memory for Randy (by the by, I noticed Lesnar is again the youngest World Champion in history). I would imagine they'd do a quick highlight package of the match and that's fine for me. Given time I imagine things will change, but there's the morbid thought of having to go through even that one match and remove references to a choke hold - anything like that.

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  18. And yet it has happened to basically no one else.  There is no reason WWE should have felt responsible for the two murders, because what precedent was there for them to believe Benoit was headed down that path.  Now, I do think WWE has contributed to many wrestlers' early deaths, but they still feature those guys on DVDs all the time.

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  19. There's never going to be anymore anthology releases, especially not a WM Blu Ray package. The last ones sold very poorly, and they didn't even bother to finish releasing Suvivor Series

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  20. exodus316 exodus316April 19, 2012 at 8:36 AM

     Not from the Naked Gun, no, but OJ's name is rarely mentioned during NFL games and when it does come up there is always an awkwardness to the moment. 

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  21. You're right, WWE has no reason to feel responsible for the murders, and also that there was no precedent. But it is precisely because it's such an unprecedented act that I empathise and agree with the action they've taken.

    See, I would liken OJ on ESPN to the treatment Benoit's appearances currently get from WWE - he's in multi-man matches and on episode of Raw etc, though of course his promos are cut.

    Anyway, each to his own in cases like this. If people want to watch the matches they're easy enough to find.

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  22. exodus316 exodus316April 19, 2012 at 8:37 AM

    Chris Benoit: overrated in life, underrated in death.  I don't miss either version of him.

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  23. I think that someday, when most of the people who were personally affected by this are gone, they'll stop deleting him from everything.  I doubt they'll ever do a documentary, but someone may do a biopic.

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  24. Right, I'm not suggesting that anyone in the present or future should be cutting promos where they say "I want to join the line of great champions like Chris Benoit!", I am just staunchly anti-revisionist-history.  Move on without talking about him, but leave the past alone is my take.

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  25. If Daniel Bryan ends up going crazy, can we officially ban the flying headbutt and German suplex?  

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  26. Why would a football player who last played over 30 years ago be mentioned at all in 2012? 

    I'll give you an example, I'm a Steelers fan and have the NFL ticket, so I see all their games.  You know who rarely gets mentioned?  Jack Lambert, Jack Hamm, Mean Joe Greene, Rocky Blier...should I go on?  It's not relevant.

    However, you bet your ass if there was an NFL show on "best RB" or "best Bills players of all time" that OJ Simpson would be there.

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  27. If OJ ran around murdering cheerleaders when he was playing, they wouldn't be showing his games on the NFL network.

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  28. It's not so much that he is being erased from history, it's that WWE doesn't want to showcase Benoit committing violent acts in the ring when all it's going to bring up is the violent acts at the end of his life. 

    It's impossible to watch a Benoit match and not think about what happened, especially during the head bumps. Who wants to be reminded of that when they don't have to?

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  29. Well, yeah...duh.

    BTW, lets not start classifying degrees of murder.  What OJ did (have you ever read the crime scene report) was pretty brutal.  The NFL dimishes his history but doesn't ignore it.  He's still in the Hall of Fame.

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  30. Speaking of WWE trying to re-write history, apparently they've now officially taken to asking people to stop with the YES!!! chants.

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  31. On our earlier thread about the idea of WWE starting a compilation DVD service where you could request their own matches, I wonder what would happen if anyone requested Benoit matches? Even though they're only a fulfilling a customer request, making money off footage of him could be interpreted it as "profiting off his image".

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  32. Eh, I read that too and I'm not sure  I buy it.  They already made a YES! t-shirt and based on Raw alone, Bryan seems to have gone into overdrive with the YES! celebration (even renaming his move after it).  WWE.com has been featuring the chant quite a lot, also.  They seem to be bringing so much attention to it, even showing signs in the audience, that it doesn't quite make sense for them to be asking people stop chanting it.

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  33. Agreed.

    WWE.com even had an article up called "Is the YES! the new WHAT?"

     

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  34. If the murders happen before he is up for induction, he never gets in. Plus him being declared innocent(bullshit I know) prevented him from getting the boot.

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  35. He seems to hint on Twitter he wants one more Mania match before retirement. Goes back and forth on it, but he's still got gas in the tank as a wrestler. I just hope he doesn't kill himself.

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  36.  Orton said on Twitter he wanted them to include that match on the DVD but they said they couldn't.

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  37. "Hi, I'd like to request Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle on my comp DVD."

    "Who?"

    "Chris Ben..." *Click*

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  38. Yeah, it's a big missing point on Orton's DVD, even though I get why it's not on there.

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  39. It may be reverse psychology at this point, if they're smart enough to grasp that people will respond to being told what to do by doing the opposite.

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  40. My guess is that they're trying to get people to stop it during segments that doesn't involve Bryan.

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  41. That's why I figured they put out a second ladder match DVD - Benoit's all over the first one.

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  42. exodus316 exodus316April 19, 2012 at 10:05 AM

    OJ comes up whenever they are discussing certain records and yardage totals.  Players from the past are mentioned all the time.  Not sure exactly what your point is, but mine was only that the NFL too treads lightly when dealing with their own murderer.

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  43. Hoo boy, Benoit's brain injury is the driving factor in what lead him to kill his family and himself. Others haven't done it, but I think other wrestlers (Foley, Bret Hart, and Nigwl Mcguinness) have all had problems from concussions other than the ones we've heard about. I wondered if that's party of why Foley had such a problem with Vince "screaming in his ear": he had neuroprocessong issues.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think Vince was relieved that PEDs were the focus of the Benoit tragedy, not TBI. Get guys to cycle off or take something untraceable and then you have the wellness policy to make things look great. Vince could have faced government regulation and mandatory off season if people had REALLY pushed TBI.

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  44.  Orton and Jericho both wanted Benoit matches included.  WWE said no.  It's not the wrestlers not wanting Benoit on the DVD, it is WWE. 

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  45. I'm honestly worried for wrestlers like Nigel and Davey Richards. Guys who sacrificed a lot and might not have much to show for it. Ymmv, but I'm fine with no more unprotected chair shots or stiff shots to the head.

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  46.  naah the more likely reason is that by telling fans NOT to do the chant, they add the whole rebel aspect to the chant and Bryan.  Nothing more than a way to market Bryan. 

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  47. Imagine being the guy who edits all the stuff for Classics on Demand and DVD releases, going through old Nitros with a fine-toothed comb to create the Benoit-free version.

    In fact, I wonder how the files/tapes are labeled.  Is there literally a whole section of the Nitro archives labeled "Pristine" versus "Benoit-less?"

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  48.  I think it's a shame though.  I have every ppv from WM1 thru 2000 save one IYH and Over the Edge where Owen died.  I have most of the ones from 2000-2004.  However the odds of ever completing those thanks to Benoit and the WWE is small.  I'd love to finish the Survivor Series anthology.  I have the two sets they put out and I have vhs copies of 97-01, but I would prefer real DVD releases rather than transferring them.  I'm not a stickler on entrance music or blurring of the logo and I just prefer the higher quality and official release but it seems it ain't going to happen. 

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  49. I agree that WWE is largely responsible for a lot of bad stuff, including Benoit's own death, but the actual murder aspect would have been really difficult for them to predict, as it appears to be an anomaly among other wrestling-related tragedies.  They have no problem making money from images of other people whose lives they shortened, though, so I think them taking a moral high ground in this case is inconsistent.

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  50. I think the WWE is in a no-win situation here. If they go the route they've gone people complain about Bmoit being deleted from history. But if they put him on the DVDs and blu rays you will have people accusing them of profiting off the tragedy.

    I respect people who can't watch his matches anymore, I just ask for the same respect when I can. I've rationalize it to myself (and I'm not a trained mental health professional so this is probably just bullshit excuse making) by saying that Benoit didn't really lose it until the combination of TBI, losing his best friend in wrestling, and seeing his career (which I believe was the most important thing to him) winding down. I wish that Benoit had retired and sought help for his brain injuries, but my true sadness is that he killed his wife and son.

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  51. When he's done, I wonder if a second guy goes through the tapes and scrubs out Scott Steiner, just to get a jump on the inevitable.

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  52. I live in Buffalo, and around here OJ gets mentioned all the time, people just ignore the double-murder. If anyone brings it up it's the usual "he was acquitted in court" thing. Of course, when your other best players are a drunken choke-artist QB and a whiny little bitch choke-artist RB, it's kind of hard to just write OJ out of history.

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  53. The double-murder shocked me, it's not unheard of for athletes with TBI to kill themselves (Andre Waters jumps to my mind, there was another athlete who shot himself in the heart so his brain could be studied).

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  54. Took the words right out my mouth.

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  55.  My point was a response to this statement:

    but OJ's name is rarely mentioned during NFL games

    It's simply not true, they rarely mention old-time players, period.  It's no more or no less with Simpson and the general point was related to your reply to Daniel that OJ wasn't ommitted from The Naked Gun.

    I'm against revisionist history no matter the circumstances.  Some people are ok with it and that's fine, but the NFL example is not relative since they're not doing the same thing Vince is.

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  56. exodus316 exodus316April 19, 2012 at 10:55 AM

    I don't agree at all.  You don't hear comparisons of Tom Brady to Joe Montana?  Of Larry Fitzgerald to Jerry Rice?  Of Adrian Peterson to Barry Sanders?  Great players are mentioned all the time -- the Brady/Montana comparison is made almost weekly.

    Pay close attention next season if a running back gets up over 250 yards and they list the players who have done that in the past.  OJ is on that list, and whenever it appears on-screen the announcers either skip over him or give him the briefest of mentions.

    I get not wanting to revise history, but Christ Benoit does not belong on our television screens any longer.  And good for Vince in not using footage of him to sell DVD's. 

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  57. I'm honestly surprised they haven't done work on it yet. There's money to be made from a DVD that includes reactions from guys included on the PPV that got changed, the Raw that got scrubbed... 

    If guys are requesting Benoit matches on their DVDs, why wouldn't they talk on the record about what happened that weekend? 

    Announce that a portion of the profits will go to a brain injury foundation and - viola - bad press about trying to profit from the weekend are eased a bit. Maybe it's just me, but I'd strongly consider buying that DVD. 

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  58. exodus316 exodus316April 19, 2012 at 10:57 AM

    I was thinking more of national broadcasts, but that is interesting to know. 

    Fingers crossed for you guys that the team doesn't move to Toronto!  I would hate to see that happen. 

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  59. Speaking of Benoit's opponent Orton (transitioning to a threadjack)..

    Found this pic of Evolution  (along with Stacy and Miss Jackie, I think this was at a Knicks game or something?)

    I know 9 years i s a long time, but damn HHH and Orton looked so much different back then:

    http://0.tqn.com/d/prowrestling/1/0/M/B/-/-/tripleh09.jpg

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  60. Fortunately there's nothing major to scrub out there, at least from 2003/2004.

    I didn't really follow to Steiner Brothers's WWF run so I don't know if they did anything epic there or not.

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  61. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Jericho, Dean, and others talking about how crazy that weekend was. And being able to talk about it without going on those annoying news talk shows where everyone is yelling.

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  62. This post has 300 comments written all over it.

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  63. but the second ladder match dvd features completely different matches. I mean, even if they wanted to (which they obviously don't): if I am right there are no more ladder matches with Benoit in it than the ones released on the first volume.

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  64. btw: how "Benoit-free" are those Nitro episodes? I know they delete all his matches but I have read they keep the interview segments in which he is in (if he is just one of several performers, like during his time as a part of the horsemen).... but they edit out everything he is saying, right?

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  65. I really think Benoit is not really a factor in this. I mean, they put out the SummerSlam Anthology and every match he is in is still included.

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  66. I just meant that they probably wanted a ladder match set to put out on shelves, it would make more sense to just make a new one with the over-abundance of matches there have been over the past fifteen years or so.

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  67. Christopher HirschApril 19, 2012 at 11:20 AM

    MAKES NO SENSE.

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  68. exodus316 exodus316 

    The only way Vince could use him to sell DVDs would be via a Benoit set.  However, if he's on the Orton set, you'd be buying it because of Orton not Benoit.  One thing does not correlate to the other.

    And again, if you can't handle it or don't like or whatever (not denigrating here), that's ok, but I'm fine with it.  I wouldn't go out and buy a Benoit set, but I've been watching old WM's and I can see him just fine.

    BTW, what Vince does is at the level of the NFL network not including Simpson in their top 10 rbs list or omitting his yardage total from the record books.  They don't do any of those things.  There's a difference.

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  69.  Yep.  It's amazing how after so many years, the Benoit edit-gate will still arise deep feelings from folks. 

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  70. Sad it before and say it again; Orton stopped being entertaining to watch the moment he stopped wearing any clothing and cut off his hair. Dude desperately needs to start wearing clothing and grow his hair back as far as that being the only thing that can make people give a shit about him again.....  

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  71. If he is just in the background, they generally keep it in but if has promo time it's scrapped.

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  72. They will look really silly editing out the second coming of Christ.

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  73. Steiner Brothers vs Bret and Owen Hart is amazing. Seek it out on youtube if you've never seen it.

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  74. Christopher HirschApril 19, 2012 at 11:36 AM

    Not really, it's something that is unique and also very heavy.

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  75. Any topic relating to Benoit is a giant flame war waiting to happen.

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  76. Chris Benoit isn't edited out of the SummerSlam 2001 dvd, either. you just won't see that match outside of the context of the whole ppv. that's all.

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  77. Meanwhile Stacy looks about the same...only now she's got a higher class of fella on her arm

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  78. It doesn't arise deep feelings or it's not amazing?

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  79. Totally with you on this one. I hate bald and shirtless dudes. 

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  80. Christopher HirschApril 19, 2012 at 11:53 AM

    I don't think its amazing it still arises deep feelings. This was a very shocking event that happened and with someone that was very popular with a lot of hardcore fans. It will always be a touchy subject due to his popularity and also how heinous his crimes were.

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  81. They remove him whenever possible. There's also some weird stuff they do. They blur out any fans with a mullet holding up four fingers just in case there is any confusion. When Kurt Angle does three rolling german suplexes, they usually cut out the third one. If anyone gives Raven a knife-edge chop or a snap suplex, that gets cut. Also, whenever Dynamite Kid does a diving headbutt they now cut to a shot of the crowd holding up a "Brutus Beefcake is a loser" sign and then cut back in time for the pin. Anyone else notice any other Benoit related edits?

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  82. HBK used the crossface a few times after the murders, so we might want to keep an eye on him too. Plus, I heard he has a habit of leaving bibles next to his childrens' heads as they sleep. I think it's time we raised the HBK-alert level to orange. 

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  83. I think even WWE is above certain things and trying to make a profit from a murder/suicide is one of them.

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  84. Which, honestly, is a bigger tragedy than any murder.

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  85. I'd love it if Kurt could make one more short run in WWE. His WWF/WWE stuff was so fantastic and he's still one of my top ten favorites ever. I don't watch TNA, so I have no idea what kind of shape the guy is in these days, but I'd love to see him get one more short run on the big stage.

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  86. I've always wondered how other people feel about whether or not Benoit should be included on WWE dvd's. Does anyone care to share their opinion on this seldom talked about subject?

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  87. Here's an example from the Wrestlemania Anthology. http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2679/1289421018457.gif

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  88. I hate football, so I could care less. Given that the Toronto games don't draw shit it's probably not gonna happen, though moving to L.A. is a different story.

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  89. i got a rap for yall...

    fuck with me your punk ass wont get too far, ill put the crippler crossface on your wife n kid like chris benoit.

    tasteless? very...

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  90. Still not as bad as Jimmy Kimmel's "Chris Benoit is a better father than he is".

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  91. This should be a new feature at Axxess. Pay 50 bucks and get yourself superimposed in the title celebration!

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  92. http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/416138/ This is by far my favorite Benoit joke. It was only like a week after it happened. Skip to 4:25

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  93. But according to Modern WWE Kayfabe, everyone spends all their time in their wrestling gear.

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  94. No Canadians. Really weird watching some of the 80s WWF and 90s WCW TV shows.

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  95. The Flavor Flav roast. Talk about crossing the line twice.

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  96.  At the risk of further exposing my geekiness, is that a Captain Cold avatar?

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  97. Also on the Hart family DVD. It's amazing. Needs to be seen by all.

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  98. "Noob Saibot is World Heavyweight Champion!!!!"

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  99. Also every Japanese wrestler, pretty much. And that's not a joke. I'm stunned Misawa is an isolated incident.

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  100.  They started referring to all women as Divas so as to not remind anyone of Woman.

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  101. Wow, Orton used to look like a respectable human being, and not the resident prison shower rapist.

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  102. I assume you mean Summerslam 2002 or 2000.

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  103. Well, I'm sure they learned their lesson after spending a year profiting off of Eddie's death, and then trying to make a storyline out of Vince's "death".

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  104. In Jericho's book, any chapter that mentions any match with Benoit ends with "and of course, it's a shame that this match has been erased from history and will never be shown again" or something to that effect.

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  105. It's a good thing Dynamite Kid is confined to a wheel chair, because I'm sure this probably would have happened by now with him.

    Then again, he did sit outside his wife's house with a shotgun and vodka once.

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  106. Yeah, I watched a KENTA match within the last six months and just turned it off. There's no skill or art to actually beating the shit out of your opponent in a pro wrestling match.

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  107. Yes it is, and it's fucking awesome. I think it's the cover from one of the Johns' issues.

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  108. Triple H still looks the same to me. Orton, hmm, I can't put my finger on it. Oh, wait, maybe it's that he's not using roods anymore?

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  109. TNA isn't using Roode right, so it kinda evens out.

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  110. I think the Japanese guys work a MUCH lighter schedule, with much slower pace in their matches, too. I don't think they get up to head-dropping in every match- just the BIG ones. Still, I agree that it's shocking how Misawa is one of very few in-ring deaths.

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  111. Yes it is. Johns' run really made me a huge fan of Captain Cold.

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  112. Yeah, lately they've been superimposing a Patriot mask on every Canadian. It's bizarre watching Edge and Hogan take on the Unamericans.

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  113. Yeah, he must mean that. Benoit seems to be totally edited out of my Summerslam 01 dvd.

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  114. What's really bad is that as offensive as that joke was is was still the funniest one on the show. Why the hell was that moron getting roasted in the first place?

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  115. At least that was 9 years ago, not unreasonable to expect guys to look different.

    I was watching the edited Austin HOF speech on YouTube the other day and they cut to a shot of Punk in the crowd.... damn, that guy has aged a lot in the last 3 years.

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  116. #There's no holding me back I'm not driven by fear
     I'm just driven by anger And you're under attack #

    Makes sense now eh?

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  117.  There have been other incidents (one which springs to mind is Nobukazu Hirai) , but i don't think there have been many more in-ring deaths

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  118. Spot on - and on top, they are a publicly traded company with stockholders to answer to.  No corporation (in any line of business) would risk that.  I'm glad they left him in the Elimination Chamber DVD, but was pretty surprised. 

    Anyone that complains otherwise doesn't have much (or any) business sense.  It sucks what he did and how it robbed us of all these great matches - even though there are other ways to see older material.

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  119. But how can I watch the 32 man WCW World Heavyweight Title Tournament without Chris Benoit footage?  So many legendary matches in that collection, like Benoit vs. Madusa.  

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  120.  But honestly what's the cost to WWE of putting out these DVDs?  They've all been already sanitized for our protection from the scratch logo, so the only expense is pressing the DVDs and packaging.  Hell, sell it as a WWE Shopzone exclusive or something.  Bottom line is that the break even point for another five disc Survivor Series set from 97-01 (and remember that would probably sell better having the Montreal screwjob on it) would be about 2000 units.  I'm quite sure they can move 2000 units.  With these DVDs, ppvs or retrospective sets basically being pure profit, I can't help but try to see other reasons other than sales that would keep them from putting out anthologies for Survivor Series and KOTR at the least, even if they never get around to IYH or WCW stuff like GAB or Starcade.

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  121.  yeah that was really the only reason to buy that DVD.  The rest of the matches were available elsewhere or not anything special.  I got it from Netflix for the Doc and it was mildly interesting.  It was interesting to put a face to the evil that is Ellie Hart.  I thought my TV was going to melt from her pants being on fire from all the lies.  But most of it wasn't anything I hadn't already seen.  But that tag match was IMO one of the top 20 matches I've ever seen and I'm not really a "tag guy."

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  122.  I think for me, including him on episodes of Nitro or on an Orton or Jericho DVD isn't attempting to profit from a murderer.  The selling point is Orton or Jericho or the monday night wars in general.  As long as they aren't putting out a best of benoit set, then including him here and there is IMO just fine.  The only shows you could even argue would be sold on his appearance would be Rumble 04 and WM 20 and those are both already out. 

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  123.  actually everyone has been very respectful.  Our resident flame war starter has either changed his screen name or no longer posts.  he use to try and get a rise out of people or show how OUTRAGED he was by always referring to Benoit as the "Child murderer" in every post, even ones that were about other topics and barely touched on Benoit.

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  124. Personally, what he didn't doesn't prevent me from watching his matches or enjoying his work. If I were buying anthologies I'd want everything included, especially pay per views where he had a prominent role or a great match. I understand not promoting him, but don't cut his matches. Leave it up to the consumer to decide on their own - if you don't want to watch Chris Benoit, don't buy the DVD or skip over his match. Simple enough.

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  125. I'd wear my trucks around the house on a warm day, maybe when I'm cutting the grass. That's about it though.

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  126. Oooh, lemme try this, uh, Phil and Flex Kavana both suck, and even the Child-Murderer couldn't drag good matches out of them.

    How'd I do?

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  127. I don't know if it's just me(It probably is), but I found the whole "deleting Benoit from history" thing to be a tad pointless. I mean I get why they did it, but no matter how hard the WWE tries they'll never be in the good graces of the mainstream media. And besides like 1 poster said, it should be up to the consumer.

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  128. They needed someone to mock. And a guy in a viking helmet with a big ass clock around his neck is a perfect mockery target.

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  129. Like Mar said, I don't think that's true, like, at all. But that's why I suggested the charity donation of a portion f the proceeds. Covers the bases somewhat, no?

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  130.  pretty good.  You forgot some hate for Bret hart though.

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  131. On a related note, I'm pumped they're releasing Omnibus collections of Johns' Flash run. Final volume should be out later this year. I'm all over that.

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  132. I might be in the minority but I prefer Johns' Flash run to his Green Lantern run. I think the Blitz arc may be one of the best DC arcs ever.

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  133. Can't agree there, as Johns' GL is my favorite run on any superhero book, but I can't begrudge that opinion at all. Blitz was freaking awesome, and I regret not reading it in single issue form at the time it was released.

    Have you had a chance to read Johns' Titans run? I picked up the first collected volume on a whim, and it reads like a breeze. Not quite Flash, but really good. It actually accomplished the Herculean feat of making me care about Conner Kent.

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  134. Yeah, so glad they're re-releasing his Flash stuff. A few years ago, I tracked down all the trades and some of them cost me a lot since they were out of print and hard to find. I wish the omnibuses would have been around then.

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  135. I agree. I think Wally is a more likeable character than Hal, so that has a lot to do with it. But I love both his GL and Flash stuff. Loving Aquaman so far too.

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  136. I love Green Lantern as well, I just thought the run stalled bit in the run up to Blackest Night. Though I'd argue that Green Lantern was more impressive because had there been a great run on GL prior to Johns? Whereas Flash had the brilliant Mark Waid run.

    Waid is a guy who I think is massively underrated. I'm also a huge Brubaker fan.

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  137. what i can't even figure out this coment

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