Good discussion fodder here, presented as is from the original e-mail:
| No, not R-truth.....these are just some truths about pro wrestling/sports entertainment, based on my own observations. Thought it would be cool if the blog could pick and choose ones they wanted to discuss. THE TRUTH IS: There never was, and may never be, another Hulk Hogan. Some guys never change the landscape of a business even once........yet Hogan did it twice (Hulkamania, nWo). THE TRUTH IS: If The Rock were a full-time performer, people would get just as sick of him as they do John Cena. Absence does make the heart grow fonder. THE TRUTH IS: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho had MAYBE 1/4th of the "big fight feel" that Taker/HHH and Rock/Cena had at Wrestlemania 28. And it wasn't for lack of effort. It's because neither guy is the impact player that people like to pretend they are. THE TRUTH IS: Daniel Bryan losing in 18 seconds seems to have garnered him far more recognition than a 20-minute wrasslin classic with Sheamus would have done. THE TRUTH IS: Bret Hart could have saved himself a ton of stress and aggravation if he'd just agreed to lose a SCRIPTED match on his way out of the WWF, regardless of the location. Hogan lost to Yokozuna on his way out...Austin would later lose to the Rock on his way out....so who the hell was Bret Hart ? A guy who "cared so much about the fans" that he was perfectly content to have a WWF title match at the 3rd biggest PPV of the year end with a Hart Foundation run-in? Vince did the right thing. RING THE BELL !! THE TRUTH IS: Nash did not kill WCW by beating Goldberg. The same people who say that like to conveniently forget that Bret Hart beat Goldberg 3 times over the course of the next year. And at least Goldberg eventually got his win back vs. Nash. Wanna know why Kane beating Austin for the title in '98 never gets bashed to pieces? Well, aside from the fact that it only lasted one night.....the fact is, WWF continued to put out an entertaining product after that happened. WCW, on the other hand, decided that The Demon, The Dog, Master P and the No Limit Soldiers, The Maestro, David Arquette, Vince Russo's "are they shooting on each other???" moments and various other nonsense would be extremely entertaining. Not only that, but nobody who based Nash for beating Goldy ever offered a better alternative for Goldberg to lose to. And at some point, he had to lose. THE TRUTH IS: Brock Lesnar really does bring legtimacy to the WWE. New fans are not going to get hooked on WWE by watching Jack Swagger do pushups, or watching Santino prance down the aisle like a fairy with his arm in an upside-down L shape.....or watching CM Punk ramble on while sitting Indian style......and so on. Brock on the other hand, has the potential to be a serious game-changer. Everybody else can either come to his level, or enjoy the mid-card. THE TRUTH IS: Michael Cole is nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be. Once he toned down the heel character somewhat, he's as good as any other announcer in WWE or TNA, for that matter. Is he Jim Ross? No. But that's like saying Dolph Ziggler isn't The Rock. It's already obvious. THE TRUTH IS: The YES!! chants will be dead or barely on life-support by Summerslam, unless WWE makes an effort to help keep them going. Hell, they didn't even last a week. Some of the DC crowd had "YES!" signs, but if there were any chants for it, I sure as hell didn't hear them. And before anybody says "well D-Bry was only out there to help break up the Lesnar/Cena fight!!", allow me to remind you that those same chants broke out in an NBA game last week. There's no reason the DC fans couldn't have randomly broke in to that chant at various points. Outside of a few smark locations like Chicago or New York, look for that chant to be gone faster than Kizarney was. THE TRUTH IS: WWE kinda sucks without the occasional bra and panties match, or bikini contest. THE TRUTH IS: Randy Orton is the best all-around performer in the WWE. He may not cut the most epic promos, but everything from his ring movements, to his mannerisms, to his facial expressions are usually on-point. THE TRUTH IS: WWE tries to create new stars. Contrary to what people online will lead you to believe, Vince is not doing his best to put a lid on certain stars to keep them from shining. That would be stupid. We've seen the likes of Jack Swagger, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Mark Henry, etc. get pushed, after they'd toiled in the mid-card for a while (quite a while, in Henry's case). The reason Daniel Bryan lost in 18 seconds is because he doesn't usually get those rock-star reactions he got in Miami. The reason Christian isn't given overly-lengthy title runs is because he's not over enough to justify it (sorry, he's not...and I am a fan of the guy). And the reason Zack Ryder is basically an afterthought is because WWE realizes he's not much more than a midcarder, and a prop to be used in bigger and better storylines (Kane/Cena, and Eve turning heel). Think back...how many guys from WWF ever went to WCW and then became a star? Hardly any. Vince doesn't usually mis-fire often. But how many guys went to WCW, then didn't become a star until they were in WWF? Several. |
The truth is, half of this reads like the usual trolling.
ReplyDelete"THE TRUTH IS: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho had MAYBE 1/4th of the "big
ReplyDeletefight feel" that Taker/HHH and Rock/Cena had at Wrestlemania 28. And
it wasn't for lack of effort. It's because neither guy is the impact
player that people like to pretend they are."
Maybe also because one story had been built up for 1+ year and the other was a rematch from a memorable match the previous year, which was tied into a 20-year undefeated streak mythos and essentially a 4-year Undertaker/HBK WrestleMania storyline. Those matches felt bigger but I prefer to watch wrestling matches, and I thought Punk/Jericho was easily the best of those three.
"THE TRUTH IS: WWE kinda sucks without the occasional bra and panties match, or bikini contest."Not really? If you want to see an attractive woman, just look... uhh ANYWHERE.
"THE TRUTH IS: Randy Orton is the best all-around performer in the WWE. "
lulz
I agree with pretty much everything there...especially about the creating new stars. Look at CM Punk, he is certainly someone I buy at the level of Cena....it's just the stop and start pushes of everyone else I don't care for. And let me add...
ReplyDeleteTHE TRUTH IS: There is no more Super Cena. When was the last time he dominated someone with invincibility? He lost to Miz at WM27 which ultimately meant nothing but hey...he jobbed twice to Punk over the summer to solidify him..and jobbed to Rock at Mania. Yes his smirking and carefree attitude are annoying but he hasn't been positioned as a win-all-the-time, shoved down our throat guy in a LONG TIME.
Oh, fun...
ReplyDeleteTHE TRUTH IS: There never was, and may never be, another Hulk Hogan.
Reluctantly disagree. I think there’s certainly the potential for there to be another Hogan, but it all depends on whether the company will allow for there to be another Hogan.
THE TRUTH IS: If The Rock were a full-time performer, people would get just as sick of him as they do John Cena.
Agree. The thing is, there were numerous times through Rock’s career as a face that the fans DID get tired of him. The only thing that really allowed him to go out on top was that he turned heel and portrayed the awesome Hollywood Rock character. But by the time his full time in-ring career was winding down, fans were booing him out of the building. And he was their face champion.
THE TRUTH IS: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho had MAYBE 1/4th of the "big fight feel" that Taker/HHH and Rock/Cena had at Wrestlemania 28.
Agree. But that’s not a shot at them. And they really didn’t get the same level of build as those two matches. The show opened with a promo building up to Rock/Cena and Taker/HHH. Not one mention of either World title match.
THE TRUTH IS: Daniel Bryan losing in 18 seconds seems to have garnered him far more recognition than a 20-minute wrasslin classic with Sheamus would have done.
Agree. It was a questionable decision, but they still have Extreme Rules to give us that match we all wanted. But yeah, I’m not completely convinced we would have seen that outpouring of support if Bryan had lost the match clean after a 10 minute battle.
THE TRUTH IS: Bret Hart could have saved himself a ton of stress and aggravation if he'd just agreed to lose a SCRIPTED match on his way out of the WWF, regardless of the location.
Agree. I know that location wasn’t the prime issue. But still. Agree.
THE TRUTH IS: Nash did not kill WCW by beating Goldberg.
Agree. It was a perfect storm of bad decisions.
THE TRUTH IS: Brock Lesnar really does bring legtimacy to the WWE.
Remains to be seen.
THE TRUTH IS: Michael Cole is nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be.
Reluctantly agree. When he cools down on playing a character, I think he’s perfectly passable.
THE TRUTH IS: The YES!! chants will be dead or barely on life-support by Summerslam, unless WWE makes an effort to help keep them going.
Probably agree. Remains to be seen, though.
THE TRUTH IS: WWE kinda sucks without the occasional bra and panties match, or bikini contest.
Disagree. The peak of the Women’s division was during the Trish/Lita/Molly Holly/Victoria/Jazz era. And they managed to pull off their matches without resorting to T&A.
THE TRUTH IS: Randy Orton is the best all-around performer in the WWE.
Disagree. By the criteria provided here, I think Punk wins and others edge out Randy as well.
THE TRUTH IS: WWE tries to create new stars.
Agree. For the past couple of years both World title matches at WrestleMania have featured at least one person who was never in a World title match at Mania. They’ve refused to push any person all too hard, which is frustrating, but we’re certainly seeing some new faces in the main event scene.
Substitute THE TRUTH with, just another on-line smark spouting off opinions. Regardless, I agree with some and disagree with others. For example, the WWF had some awesome years before "bra and panties" matches. I mean, seriously.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to ignore the Montreal one. It'd be great if everyone else did, too.
ReplyDeleteI actually agree with most of this guy's points, except:
1) there WAS another Hulk Hogan, his name was Steve Austin. You can argue who was bigger (I'd say Hogan) but the fact you can even *have* the argument makes it true.
2) I'm indifferent to bra and panties matches and other stuff where the divas get naked. There is free porn on the Internet, I get no excitement from a bikini contest, I'm not 13. However, I recognize there's going to be filler on a wrestling show so I don't mind if it's that. I won't pretend to care that the WWE doesn't hire better wrestlers cause I've seen the "best" that womens wrestling has to offer (at least in the US) and it sucks compared to the men. And I guess it contradicts my earlier point, but it seems the better the wrestler, the less attractive they are, and that's not a trade-off I'm comfortable with. Give me Kaitlyn over Sara Del Ray every day of the week, twice on Sundays.
3) I like Orton, and have defended him a LOT on this blog. He's a good worker and has the 'IT' factor.... BUT he's not the best all-around performer. Punk, Jericho, and Ziggler are better off the top of my head. Hell, the most talented performer in WWE is John Cena. I hate his character, but the man is capable of much more than Orton. His promos are better, ditto ring work and natural charisma.
So yeah, some good points in there. Just please leave out Montreal next time...
Aaaand this is why no one reads guest columns.
ReplyDeleteTHE TRUTH IS: You conveniently forget that none of these guys get to book themselves. "Come to Brock's level or enjoy the midcard". Um...the booking for the entire next year will be designed specifically NOT to have that happen.
WWE sucks without an occasional bra and panties match? Why do you want to watch shitty pseudo porn? You have the internet.
I would take a 2002/3-ish Trish/Victoria/Jazz/Molly quality match over a bikini contest at any time.
ReplyDelete'Divas' at their sultriest always wound up about as sexy as the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue, but the target crowd for it was guys who could get real-deal pornography on the internet for free.
Actually I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here man. Good thoughts.
ReplyDeleteWtf wrote this? Randy Orton is the best all-around performer?? We'd get sick of the Rock? CM Punk isn't an impact guy?
ReplyDeleteScott, please don't muck up the board with trolling drivel like this.
My favorite part is that one "truth" is Daniel Bryan & the YES chants will be gone by SummerSlam but the WWE tries to create new stars. Hmmm....how could they create a new star in a guy who was just featured on ESPN.com....I know...don't put the guy on Raw & drown out the YES! chants. Wait a minute...
ReplyDeleteThis is a bad column that some "wrestling writer" on Rantsylvania/EMZEE/Shooters would have wrote back in the day. Utter garbage.
ReplyDeleteTHE TRUTH IS: If The Rock were a full-time performer, people would
ReplyDeleteget just as sick of him as they do John Cena. Absence does make the
heart grow fonder.
A million times this. We've all been saying it, despite what certain netcops might think. ; )
Rey wasn't a case of Super Cena so much as it was fighting Cena on his way out to the injury room, but to marks it probably felt the same. Cena lost routinely in 2008 and was out of the title picture for a while even and was still over, but then the Nexus angle happened where he turned into Superman again and "joined the Nexus" in a way that didn't preclude him from continuing to model his colorful merch.
ReplyDeleteThe good news about Cena is he's too over to disappear completely. Even in the midcard in a non-title, "JBL is Poopy" feud, people are paying attention.
Sometimes contrariness for the sake of being contrary is annoying, but there's nothing at all wrong with any of these points save for the bra and panties stuff. If you disagree with his comment about the Rock, I suggest you take a look at Summerslam 2002 or even Wrestlemanias 17 and 18. I would also mildly disagree about Orton - Punk has him beat, but Orton definitely has upped his game.
ReplyDeleteExactly.
ReplyDeleteThat "truth" should read: WWE tries to create new stars; but don't dare get over on your own.
I personally think Orton has some of the worst facial expressions of any major player.
ReplyDeleteExcept the WWE turned Rock heel when it happened. Let us not forget the Maple Leafs suck.
ReplyDeleteHold on, is your evidence that people were getting sick of Rocky are...two of the hottest matches of ALL TIME?
ReplyDeleteWhat Wrestlemania 18 match are you even watching?
The guy the the most charismatic wrestler ever.
*MY OPINION IS:
ReplyDeleteFixed.
What does "Orton definitely has upped his game" mean?
ReplyDeleteI think you should be flattered Scott, that Vince has time to read your blog and send e-mails
ReplyDeleteEvery time I read that I hear Tazz from the old Smackdown games in like 2003.
ReplyDeleteSemantics but he was in an article on Grantland.com, that regularly writes about pro wrestling
ReplyDeleteThe comment sections aren't bad enough, you're giving trolls columns now, Scott?
ReplyDeleteI'm too lazy to go point by point but I generally agree with a lot of this, especially about Cole. Disagree about Punk/Jericho but I'm an unabashed mark for both guys.
ReplyDeleteI fully admit to this being chauvinistic but I can't stand women's wrestling. At least when they were just blatantly pushing it as T&A it gave me a reason to watch.
Totally.
ReplyDeleteIt's just generic, cliche speak when you don't have any tangible evidence.
Kinda like in football when they say things like such and such team/player displayed a lot of heart. Notice it's always the underdogs that display "heart" more than anyone. It's never Michael Jordan sure displayed a lot of heart in the finals. It's gas bagging.
Is this trolling or an anti-smark gimmick? I was at the DC Raw and there were very loud YES! chants starting in line to get into the arena. They persisted at random all night.
ReplyDeleteWow, TRUTH. Sure beats the rest of us with our mere opinions. Here is a FACT: As of the day after tomorrow (Friday), CM Punk will have held the WWE Championship more days than Andre the Giant, Batista, Mick Foley, and Jeff Hardy put together. It is IRRELEVANT - but it is IMPORTANT - because it is in CAPITAL LETTERS.
ReplyDeleteWhere do you get this idea they are drowning out the Yes chants? They gave him a shirt with it, they constantly show the signs in the crowd, he is still yelling it, etc.
ReplyDeleteYou sir, made me laugh out loud.
ReplyDeleteUgh...most football announcers make Cole look like Uecker.
ReplyDeleteI will never forget Terry Bradshaw saying "The name of the game is yards! Ya need them to win!"
I had a fucking coronary in my living room.
I agree with much of this but you lost me at Randy Orton. Never seen an Orton match or interview I enjoyed. Personally I think his act is more stale than Cena's.
ReplyDeleteHe forgot to put "U Mad?" at the end of his post. Otherwise a quality trolling.
ReplyDeleteha ha, coaches are just as bad, sudden flashback to my high school coach.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite is Pacino in the awful Any Given Sunday screaming "the inches in front of your face!!"
Oh gawd. They're all just the very very worst people ever, lol
ReplyDeleteThat was extremely annoying to try reading. It's always seemed to me the best gimmick is good content. Sadly, this article was just the Skip Bayless gimmick (take the opposite side and run it into the ground) without the content.
ReplyDeleteOn TV I heard next to no Yes chants. On SmackDown there was one notable Yes chant during Piper's Pit. Overall, I don't think the Yes chants are staying.
ReplyDeleteActually yeh, about Cole, he was one of the only bright spots on last nights Smackdown, his hating on the Legends was awesome...in small does, he really is pretty cool.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone pointed out that the reason Hogan put Yokozuna on his way out in '93 was because Hogan refused to put Hart over?
ReplyDeleteI don't think Cole is horrible recently. His heel run was awful, but when he focuses on the match he is decent.
ReplyDeleteI am a fan of both Punk and Jericho but I agree. Just look at the crowd reactions. The crowd popped for everything Taker and HHH did, but it took them 15 minutes to get into Jericho/Punk. And the crowd went nuts for Rock/Cena. Now you can say that Taker/HHH killed the crowd a bit, but if they were hyped for Jericho/Punk as much as they were for the other two big matches, they would have been alive anyways.
I am a fan of Orton's and I do think he is one of the best. His promo's recently haven't been all that special, but given his character he doesn't need to be. He's a fight first talk later kind of guy. His smoothness and timing in the ring is damn near unparalleled, he's got one of the best finishers in the WWE which he can hit from anywhere.
THE TRUTH IS: this blog needs to bring back Kyle Fitta's excessive and longwinded op-eds disguised as news updates.
ReplyDeleteThis is designed to hit as many points as possible with a contrary opinion which is then, of course, made to be even more frustrating because it's presented as an inarguable fact.
ReplyDeleteI mean, I get it, comments and traffic are tits (35 comments in an hour) but seriously, how did you not know this was just a troll? =)
*Slow clap*
ReplyDeleteI don't read or comment on this blog because of obvious trolling like this. Pretty much everyone on here has thoughtful, well-argued opinions, even if I disagree with them, and I'd not rather encourage wilfully contrarian threads like this.
Either was it was a damn decisive job that Hogan never got back and took like a champ...I still never get why Bret mucked shit up so bad at SS97
ReplyDeleteAgree with most of this (REALLY agree with the parts about Bret Hart and Kevin Nash), except the parts about Orton and Cole. Orton sucks, and saying Cole is as good as any other announcer in the WWE or TNA is like saying having the clap is as good as any other STD. Speaking of bad announcers (kind of off topic here...), the YES network needs to can Lou Pinella. He contributes nothing and has a really annoying voice.
ReplyDeleteOne point about Hogan: Austin may have made more money, but if you go ask 1,000 random people if they know who both guys are, I'm willing to bet all of them know Hogan. Maybe 1 in 10, if that, have any idea who Steve Austin is.
Bret was more than willing to do a decisive job to Ken Shamrock.
ReplyDeleteThat's what happens when you cancel out crowd noise.
ReplyDeleteHe quit because people were mean to him. I guess he thought everybody was going to love him like he was Caliber Winfield or something.
ReplyDeleteSo...troll bait passes for content now?
ReplyDelete-1
Well the person offers an explanation for his thoughts, how does this not fit that description? And many people here seem to agree with it, as well.
ReplyDeleteI think he'd have toughed it out if he wasn't having girl trouble at the same time. He kinda emo'd out on me the night of Mania on FB.
ReplyDeleteNEVER?
ReplyDeleteI mean, I dislike Orton pretty strongly, and never want to see him as champion again (I'm quite happy that he's been in the under-card for the last three WMs), but to say that the guy hasn't had a single good match seems like a bit of a blanket statement.
If nothing else, the guy had really good matches against Foley, Edge, and Christian. That's... pretty much it, actually, he has awful chemistry with about 95% of the roster, but he's had about ten really good matches just with those three opponents.
There's a "THE TRUTH IS: Whoever wrote this column has a Little Jimmy" joke to be made here, but I'm not gonna make it.
ReplyDeleteOr Austin. Or Taker.
ReplyDeleteDamn it, I swore I wasn't going to get sucked back into this Montreal thing...
This isn't even original troll bait, it's just the same arrogant anti-smark bullshit that every other dumb fuck mark on the internet spews. It's a complete absence of a real opinion, it's just a reaction to other people's opinions. Someone who enjoys all the typical bullshit from WWE but isn't smart enough to understand WHY they enjoy it or why someone else doesn't enjoy it, so they just get self righteous and cocky about their supposedly great opinion, because anyone who doesn't share it is just some lowly internet geek who isn't a real wrestling fan at all, but of course. I almost feel sad for these fucking losers cursing the dark rather than lighting a fire.
ReplyDelete"The thing is, there were numerous times through Rock’s career as
ReplyDeletea face that the fans DID get tired of him. The only thing that really
allowed him to go out on top was that he turned heel and portrayed the
awesome Hollywood Rock character. But by the time his full time in-ring
career was winding down, fans were booing him out of the building. And
he was their face champion."
Agreed 10000%!
I know Rock is one of the biggest stars in the history of the industry, but to just pretend that large segments of the audience weren't booing him is revisionist history.
As a face, he was booed against Austin, Trips, Hogan, and Brock. Plus, even some of his PROMOS - the thing he was most known for - were getting booed at the end; just watch "Raw X" again some time.
He had a great match with HHH (No Mercy 07). Punk at WM was very good (best match on the card). Vs HBK at SvS 07 was fantastic (the "no superkick" match). He had good to very good matches with pre-2006 Taker, too. Just look at recent history. His WM with Kane was fine (definitely not bad like some are saying), and the rematch was at the 'good' level. And that's with Kane!
ReplyDeleteRandy Orton is a good worker. Deal with it.
WWE once ended a Wrestlemania on a run in. There's no reason a Survivor Series couldn't have ended the same way.
ReplyDeleteAnd Punk and Jericho could have been seen as a big deal compared the other two matches if they got half the video packages those matches did. But hey, Jericho and Punk are secure superstars, they don't need thirty video packages talking about how great they are like Triple H and John Cena seem to need.
Calm down. It was just one man's opinion. Or several, if you read the replies down below.
ReplyDeleteIt's so weird how some guys can be booked as being equals in the ring, but not in terms of star-power: Punk has been arguably Cena's greatest opponent (in terms of kayfabe, where Cena hasn't really been able to get the better of him), but Cena is obviously the one that will remain the face of the company for the foreseeable future. Same with Orton and Christian.
ReplyDeleteBecause, as I said, it is wilfully contrarian. This person may have these opinions, but prefacing each thought with 'the truth is...' is obviously designed to antagonise. It's cheap.
ReplyDeleteApparently it struck quite the nerve with you.
ReplyDeleteYou sure have replied alot in this thread to something "no one read".
ReplyDeleteWrestlemania 17: they were in Austin's home state, of course Rock got booed. Jesus (the other guy, not Carlito's bodyguard) would have gotten booed.
ReplyDeleteWrestlemania 18: he was against Hogan, of course Hogan was getting cheered.
Summerslam 2002: people started getting wise to the Rock leaving for long stretches to go to Hollywood and film movies. If I remember correctly, he received less boos and more "You Sold Out!" chants than anything.
In 2002, Hogan and Rock had basically 1 month of buildup (crappy one, at that) and was still clearly seen as a bigger deal than anything else on the card.
ReplyDeleteVideo packages don't make a match a big deal. Fans actually caring about the match, on the other hand, does.
He also looks like the head of the Aryan Union's prison chapter.
ReplyDeleteNew thread...what if Bret dropped the title clean to Shamrock at SS97? What woulda happened different?
ReplyDeleteTHE FICTION IS: This entire article.
ReplyDeleteOr you could just disagree with the points you disagree with, agree with what you agree with, or ignore the whole thing altogether.
ReplyDeleteAgreed but still all these people crying Super Cena cannot deny that his two jobs to Punk in title bouts put Punk where he is currently...which is much higher/better than any other talent in recent memory, on a consistent basis. We'll see what happens after Brock steamrolls him though.
ReplyDeleteRock was never booed against Trips in the latter part of their career. In fact, the only loud boos he got in matches were against Hogan, Brock and (although not as much as revisionists like to say) Austin at 17, which was practically in Austin's backyard. The buildup to the show DID NOT have Rock getting booed constantly, as many have indicated in recent years.
ReplyDeleteRaw X was after Rock left for Hollywood (after the Brock loss) and was direct blowback for that.
Four years. That's how long UT/HHH was built.
ReplyDeleteSix weeks. That's how long Punk/Jericho was built.
He's just making a comment on the clear troll nature of the article in it's entirey.
ReplyDeleteRight, because responding to a troll makes the trolling a valid argument...
ReplyDeleteYou sure seem to think calling someone out for being a lame troll is the same as getting trolled.
ReplyDeleteOf course it was a bigger deal, HULK HOGAN WAS FACING THE ROCK!
ReplyDeleteOr I could comment on my displeasure at this kind of 'article' appearing on the blog.
ReplyDeleteOrton being the best all-around performer is certainly up for debate............but people were getting sick of the Rock as recently as a few weeks before WM (Kung Pao Bitch). If he were there week after week running through his 1999 insult-book, people would most definitely get sick of him (although his 2003 heel schtick might have worked again). And, sorry man, CM Punk as the top draw hasn't spiked either buyrates or ratings.....they had to bring Rock back and dust off UT to get 1 mill WM buys.
ReplyDeleteEhh...I wouldn't say he's "good".
ReplyDeleteFor sure he's not terrible, I just find him sort of "eh".
He has never ever evoked any emotion in me one way or the other. (Except when they were going to cast him in The Marine movie for 4 seconds...that was the only time in his career I actually gave a shit what the guy was doing)
There's a huge difference between the Rock (one of your top faces) getting booed at two Wrestlemanias (one against Austin, the other top face), and Hogan (THE legend of wrestling), and John Cena (THE top face getting booed unanimously at every single Wrestlemania (THE flagship PPV and biggest show of the year for WWE) he's been in with the exception of his first.
ReplyDeleteNo Ryan, tell us how you really feel.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, even though not everything they say is complete bullshit, the attitude of the entire article is as confrontational and obnoxious as they come.
And HHH was facing UT.
ReplyDeleteAnd Rock was facing Cena.
OF COURSE both were bigger deals than Punk/Jericho. And not because of video packages, as you insinuated.
And, sorry man, CM Punk as the top draw hasn't spiked either buyrates or ratings
ReplyDeleteIn that case, neither has Cena and Orton, the two guys on top of the card for most of the last 3-4 years. In fact, everything (ratings, ppvs and I'll *guess* merch sales) have been steadily declining for those years. I'm sure you could blame the product, but if you're going to blame Punk....
BTW, Punk did spike buyrates for MITB. It may have been 25-30k more buys, but when's the last time Cena's done that when not being involved with Rock?
Forget just WM, every show, period.
ReplyDeleteThey just faced each other last year. I doubt anybody was worried about "4 years". As far as Punk/Jericho.....Jericho came back with an uninteresting "wrestling troll" gimmick that people got sick of in a hurry, then him and CM Punk argued over and over about who the "best in the world" was, when in reality their match was never any mor ethan 3rd most anticipated at WM.......they finally saved it somewhat with the "your dad's a drunk and your sister is an addict" stuff.
ReplyDeleteLame.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't so much the reply itself that I was referencing....it was the ranting, cursing, and general angry tone of his post.
ReplyDeleteConsidering at least half of the replies were in agreement with the post, there must be a lot of trolls on this board.
ReplyDeleteEither that or maybe some really good points were brought up.
No, I just think you made yourself look silly insisting "no one reads guest columns" and calling the guy a troll, when over half of the people were in agreement with what he said. And because you felt silly for it, now you're replying to everything you can to try to save face and insist that the column was garbage. We get it, you (suppodedly) didn't like the article.
ReplyDeleteNobody misses bra & panties matches or bikini contests. I have the Internet for porn and hot chicks, I have WWE for entertainment, theoretically. Besides, any Diva segment is a designated piss break/SportsCenter check anyway, esp. if Beth isn't wrestling.
ReplyDeleteDamn I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say lol. Orton has gotten MUCH better as an overall wrestler the last few years. His matches range from generally watchable to pretty damn good. I think the best thing (as far as me watching) was that his character was given a "fatal flaw" so to speak. There was a time where he was "Super Orton" and never lost, but ever since he was given that flaw of his temper being so hot, it can cause him to lose matches and not care, he's somewhat relatable now. I like rooting for a good guy as much as the next one, but they are not robots who have no flaws. That's what Orton's character has gained and that's what Cena's character lacks.
ReplyDeleteNice try Scott, but this post is 10 days too late.
ReplyDeleteAn article is submitted that doesn't say DANIEL BRYAN IS GOD YES !! YES!! YES!! and people get rubbed the wrong way. Amazing.
ReplyDeleteSome of us think he's basically a not-quite-as-funny version of Eric Young with slightly better mic nad wrestling skills.
Wow...you somehow managed to get every single thing wrong you could have possibly gotten wrong.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations!
Maybe "I'm gonna be contrary by defending the guy that is getting shit on for being contrary" really is a good gimmick for you after all.
Well, I guess we know who wrote the original piece of shit don't we?
ReplyDeletelol
Because falling for the troll means it's not trolling.
ReplyDeleteWhew, explain how the internet works, please.
Rock as a face = Dwayne = bad
ReplyDeleteRock as a heel = God like
Just so I understand, you think Bryan's talent is just a notch above EY? Forget the fact that the guy is one of the top 5 workers today (and possibly over the last 10 years), EY is basically Santino without the comedic timing. I get that it's your opinion and all, but if you think that, you have no credibility in my eyes...not that that matters, but still, just doesn't make sense.
ReplyDeletePeople can agree with it and it can still be a troll. He purposely wrote that article designed to get people to argue with him.
ReplyDeleteI don't feel silly at all, I was right. The guy was trolling.
I'm sorry you're not smart enough to understand that.
Notice it's always the underdogs that display "heart" more than anyone. It's never Michael Jordan sure displayed a lot of heart in the finals.
ReplyDeleteNot to pick nits but a lot of people talked about Jordan's heart in the flu game.
As much as I loathe Orton, some of it's the way he's booked (which isn't his fault): he's booked as a badass so he doesn't sell for anyone and makes those goofy "viper" facial expressions.
ReplyDeleteIs Orton good enough to be a solid upper mid-carder? Hell yes! Is he good enough to be a dominant part of the main event scene? Hell no!
One of the sure signs that someone feels silly and defensive is when they get insulting. Your last line gives that away.
ReplyDeleteMan, can you imagine if Mark Henry had gotten this good in 98 or 99?
ReplyDeleteYeah, Orton's gotten good ever since he wasn't a heel and didn't have to carry the match... Interesting.
ReplyDeleteOrton's a perfectly good wrestler but not outstanding. To me he's Rick Rude or Scott Hall: a guy you want holding your second most important title and occasionally challenging for the top belt but God help you if he's your number 1 guy.
Actually it was in reference to your insistence that I feel silly because I can see into this writer's intentions better than you can.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, it's not a 100% thing, but you get my drift.
ReplyDeleteIt's the same thing with short white receivers, they're always "scrappy", or the best players are always "leaders". It's just cliche talk. Are there exceptions to the rule? Of course. But why can't Ray Lewis be a bad ass LB and scrappy.
What exactly was wrong? People did get sick of Jericho's over-the-top trolling schtick after about the 2nd week (and not just live audience fans, even smarks were getting impatient with it).........then they bickered like children (i'm the best...no I'M THE BEST...oh yeah? I'll prove it at WM)....then finally the feud got more interesting iwth the personal family stuff.
ReplyDeletePeople LOVED Jericho's troll gimmick. You're free to go back to any of those live threads.
ReplyDeleteWhen they threw the gimmick simply to spite the fans that had figured out the plan for the Royal Rumble people were livid.
You don't get to just say things and they magically become true. People were thrilled during those live threads.
He didn't get that win "back" against Yoko but he did make him look like a clod who lot the WWF title in about a minute.
ReplyDeleteOther thing that was wrong, "I doubt people cared about 4 years".
ReplyDeleteTHE WHOLE ANGLE was built on HHH trying to be as good as Shawn in those matches.
Literally, everything in your post is wrong.
I'll make this quick...I went to a house show in Lakeland, FL, few days before WM28...at the show, Cena was the most over...period...crowd was nuts for him, merch, etc. Yet on TV, booed mercilessly, hated by the IWC, stale as hell, etc. I just don't get it...how is he so hated in every avenue...yet loved at live shows..still moves the needle ratings wise...I don't even know how to put it into words, such an anomaly. You'd think he is the death knell of WWE in his current form in so many ways, but in so many other ways, it's totally different...and it blows my mind how many GROWN MEN, if u see them in person, buy into his schtick..wearing the shirts, rooting for him, etc...I think the mark audience is much more alive and well then we all want to admit...you've never seen pathetic till you've sen a 40 yr old man and his wife head to toe in Cena merch rooting for him and buying into his persona like it's 100% legit...the beauty of house shows.
ReplyDeletePerhaps I was hanging out on different forums than you, but most people said it was pointless and annoying after about the 2nd week. Yes, some laughed early on, but around week 2 or 3,
ReplyDeleteIn terms of looks (and wrestling but that goes without saying) I prefer Sara Del Ray over Kaitlyn every day of the week.
ReplyDeleteSome of us think [Daniel Bryan]'s basically a not-quite-as-funny version of Eric Young with slightly better mic and wrestling skills. And some of us view CM Punk as the most drugged-out looking "straight edge" guy on the planet.
ReplyDeleteCan anyone help me find my shit? I have just lost my shit!
Dude, seriously? I just... I feel like you should have ended your little column with "u mad, bro?"
PS I obv didn't "make it quick" and this post was brought to you by Pabst Blue Ribbon..but still I think it's valid
ReplyDeleteYeah, you must have. Everyone here was beyond thrilled to have a character doing something different.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with this isn't the opinions, because some of them I agree with, but the way they're presented. THAT'S why you're being called a troll: you stated contrarian opinions on certain things and acted as if that was the only correct opinion.
ReplyDeleteAt this point, you seem like you're trying to convince yourself more than me or anyone else. It'll be ok, man. It's just the Internet.
ReplyDeleteConvince you of what? Of the overwhelming consensus that this entire article was written specifically to troll people?
ReplyDeleteCan you not read the article? Can you not see the purposeful style that it's written in?
I find it increasingly telling that you starting commenting here for the first time ever to defend an article that is getting almost universally shit on.
Drugged out?
ReplyDeleteSo I guess anyone with facial hair and tattoos automatically looks drugged out now. Nice stereotype.
No, the angle was built on Undertaker not wanting to go out as a beaten/broken has-been. Not once did HHH say he "wanted to do what Shawn couldn't do" (unless we are to assume you are a mind-reader...which you obviously arent).
ReplyDeleteBecause he's seen it all before and is annoyed by it being spotlighted on a site he reads?
ReplyDeleteJust cause something touches a nerve doesn't mean it's "provocative." Personally I don't like passive aggressive posts wherein a poster insinuates that another poster has anger issues, or needs to do some soul searching because he or she responded to a troll. It tends to get on my nerves.
The wording of that comment on Bryan was wrong. The SLIGHTLY better mic skills...that's correct.......but I didn't mean for the "slightly" to also apply to the wrestling skills. He definitely has better mat skills than EY.
ReplyDeleteHis annoying , nasally bland voice is only slihgtly better than EY's raspy voice though. That part I stand by.
Wait...so you're admitting the angle was actually build over four years?
ReplyDeleteHaha.
Thanks.
It's called nostalgia pops. Just because something pops a crowd doesn't mean it's epic. Look, I like Hogan vs Rock, but it's an ok match with a lot of nostalgia. Good working the crowd and all, but it isn't that impressive. I don't know what you expect from Jericho/Punk, but it's a different kind of atmosphere, and a different kind of match. If you want all your matches to feel like Hogan/Rock, that's your prerogative, but don't expect me to be impressed with your view on the business.
ReplyDeleteHe should save the drama for his maternal caregiver.
ReplyDeleteFour years versus six weeks.
ReplyDeleteTwo guys that have been getting pushes for at least A DECADE versus a guy that's been getting pushing for 9 months and a guy that just came back to television.
Clearly they are SO similar.
1. True, though the lack of any other big company is a big part of the reason why
ReplyDelete2. Probably true, given that theres already a small percentage getting sick of him
3. True, though I don't think it was meant to have that feel. To me it was always built as the Steamboat/Savage of the show rather than the Hogan/Andre. There to be a great match rather than a big one.
4. True, though I doubt that was the intention of the 18 second match.
5. Bret is self centred, in other news the grass is green.
6. A terrible merger of parent companies and a bunch of ridiculous contracts killed WCW. They were still doing low 2.1's when they closed and could have survived if it wasn't for terrible business decisions. Booking decisions barely matter in wrestling. Most fans just shrug stupid things off or express their annoyance and carry on watching. There's a Cracked article about The Walking Dead that pretty much could apply to wrestling. We will watch no matter what, continuously hope it will get better, but bitch about how stupid the writing decisions are on a weekly basis.
7. Yep, Brock's pretty great
8. Toned down, Cole is fine. Even when amped up he's better than Booker.
9. I don't get why everyone is making such a big deal out of people chanting yes. Did people care this much when 'What?' started?
10. Women are lovely.
11. Orton's good at what he does. Not my cup of tea but I can see his appeal.
12. I agree with the overall message. I don't think that people sit in the big twisting their moustaches and planning who to ruin next. The main event scene is packed to the brim since people at the top stick around now until they leave wrestling. There isn't much room to break from the midcard, sadly. I'm sure they get paid enough to not complain too much.
Overall nothing there was overly controversial. The delivery was kind of aggressive though. There's this strange smarks Vs. anti-smarks thing on the internet these days. Really though we're all just people with different opinions sharing our perspectives on a sport we all love.
And the baggy eyes, and the general "I look as if i haven't bathed in 2 weeks" appearance, yeah.
ReplyDeleteYou had me intrigued until you said Randy Orton was the best all rounder on the roster babahahhaaha...... are you serious? I guess if you included making sure you cut robotic promo's and had completely uninspiring main event level matches then I'd agree. Christian is 100 times better all rounder.. you know why! Because he MADE Orton interesting. Anyone who can do that HAS to be talented.
ReplyDeleteAgreed.....alot of people get really insecure when their "beliefs" or whatever get challenged. If they truly believed Daniel Bryan was wrestling's Second Coming, or that CM Punk is the next Hogan/Rock/Austin or even Cena...then they'd simply laugh and move on. But instead there's a part of them that is afraid there is some truth to all of that. For me, it's not really a smark vs. antri-smark thing, per se.
ReplyDeleteWhere do you keep getting "4 years" from? 4 years ago, HBK was retiring Ric Flair.......HHH was in some 3-way feud with Cena and Orton......and Taker was feuding with Edge.
ReplyDeleteTechnically, wasn't Yoko getting HIS win back against Hogan?
ReplyDeleteOh, and if you wanna be nit-picky...hadn't Punk and Jericho been sorta bickering on Twitter for quite some time before his actual return? I mean, I don't really count Twitter feuds either, but they were setting the seeds for all that far before "6 weeks".
ReplyDeleteWhen he made a WM recap post about 2 or 3 days after we already read the recap we WANTED to read (Scott's), I didn't come on here bitching at him about how boring and unnecessary his "thoughts" on the PPV were, now did i ? No, I simply didn't reply in the thread.
ReplyDeletePunk has baggy eyes because he's a well known insomniac. The "he looks as if he hasn't bathed in 2 weeks? That's a classic facial hair/tatoos stereotype. Try again.
ReplyDeleteA trip to youtube would show you Orton isn't exactly "slick" in the ring with several botches and badly timed RKO's.
ReplyDeleteYeh but dude if it wasn't for Marty Jannetty, who i guess was unemployed at the time and trying his hand at photography, dressing in disguise and not knowing how to use a camera right and shooting out a fireball, Hogan was gonna win...Yoko winning was a shoot to cover up for the photography mess up.
ReplyDeleteIf you compressed Bryan's reign on Smackdown of about 5 months to screaming "YES!" while sporting a beard, then you need to look up the word "nuance" in the dictionary. There's been so much more. Escaping with the titles by using AJ, outsmarting opponents to get out of matches on technicalities, cutting awesoe promos (without the YES)....do you watch Smackdown? Do you just hate facial hair?
ReplyDeleteSo, the guy that's only slightly better than Eric Young has been the main event of one of two shows for the biggest company in the world, while maintaining ratings and holding the 2nd most important title in the company. Meanwhile, EY is a joke in TNA....think about that? A joke in a joke of a company.
Yep, Bryan is only slightly better.
A philosopher teacher once taught me that not all opinions are right.
I'm sure you won't respond to this post just like you didn't respond to my Punk post. Here, i'll copy/paste for you:
"And, sorry man, CM Punk as the top draw hasn't spiked either buyrates or ratings..."
In that case, neither has Cena and Orton, the two guys on top of the
card for most of the last 3-4 years. In fact, everything (ratings, ppvs
and I'll *guess* merch sales) has been steadily declining for those
years. I'm sure you could blame the product, but if you're going to
blame Punk....
BTW, Punk did spike buyrates for MITB. It may have been 25-30k more
buys, but when's the last time Cena's done that when not being involved
with Rock?
THE TRUTH IS....
ReplyDeleteIT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK
/postsfrom2001
THE TRUTH IS...
ReplyDeleteThis NWO 2000 thing might have legs
/postsfrom2000
THE TRUTH IS: Whats REALLY so great about Orton? I loved him in his psycho, head of Legacy phase, I guess from 07 till...I dunno, hard to remember in the current picture...but now he bores me to tears and really started hating him against Punk and Christian last year...formulaic, almost Ultimate Warrior like in his weird in ring behavior thats unrelatable...yeh the RKO outta nowhere is cool but other than that...he sucks!
ReplyDeleteTHE TRUTH IS: Scott is just using you to get eyeballs and AdSense clicks.
ReplyDeletealot of people get really insecure when their "beliefs" or whatever get challenged.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's almost like a guy posting something and then spending all of his time in the comments section defending it. Whew, that guy must be....(here it comes)....(all caps)....INSECURE!
You don't have to explain his appearance to me. If you think he's a handsome guy or whatever, that's fine. Apparently some women like him as well, judging from the list of hotties he's supposedly been associated with (Maria, Lita, Tracy Brooks, Beth Phoenix...etc)
ReplyDeleteYou seem to have a hard time getting people to reply to you (which is why you are resorting to creating new posts to hit the top of the page)...so I figured I'd help you out. How....was....your....day...today...Joe???? (somebody else chime in as well, please).
ReplyDeleteYou missed his point....he said there was nothing overly confrontational ....which is true. You'll notice that some offered up logical reasons why certain things I said were true or not true...and others got snippy and started throwing around the "troll" label pretty quickly.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, it's pretty lame to spend your time responding to every critic. Stand by your post, wrong or not.
ReplyDeleteIf you have a link to weekly Raw ratings (preferably a breakdown for the last 3 or 4 years, I'll happily take a look at it. I didn't "blame" Punk for anything. I simply said he wasn't doing anything to help matters. As they say, if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
ReplyDeleteYou forgot the part where I called him Brian Posehn.
ReplyDeleteSeriously though, don't write things (I assume you wrote the original email) that are so blatantly baiting for a fight and then get all in a huff when people don't like it. I'm sure in your head there were a million comments where people just posted "Oh my god, this guy is so right! When you put it that way, I really do believe all these things you say are THE TRUTH!" But if people felt that way, we'd already be posting about it and your article would be redundant (not that Scott doesn't get a fair share of those kind of emails, either). So, yknow, suck a dick.
Fine, thanks. Any particular reason why you chose this post to snark on as opposed to all of the other ones in a similar vein?
ReplyDeleteWhat? Cena vs. whoever didn't do that in other ppvs. Your logic makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteIf wrestler x (say Cena) is the constant headlining all ppvs for 3 years (close to that) and the meter doesn't move; but then, you have a hot storyline for 3 weeks and the meter moves by 25-30k over the previous year, that's not because people wanted to see Punk win and what he would do with the belt?
If you can't understand that logic, then we havd nothing left to discuss. And no, Cena and Rock didn't do shit together. WM28 jumped HUGE over the previous year, also headlined by Cena. That was all Rock. Please understand how this stuff works before making new theories up. Drawing in wrestling is not rocket science.
Don't worry, I got your back bro. I enjoy your posts. At least you don't argue about shit that happened 14.5 years ago.
ReplyDeleteNo, I didn't forget.....just like I didn't forget that he called you a slightly fatter Kevin Smith in retaliation.
ReplyDeleteI guess I just figured that someone who's been around as long as you (aren't you one of those guys from the Scotsmanality days) wouldn't be so easily offended and flip out over someone's opinion of wrestling. Sure I knew there would be some disagreements, I just didn't figure someone who has (a) probably been around forever and (b) has posting priveleges on this board would start ranting and raving over what he perceived as "trolling".
Agreed Henry is amazing.
ReplyDeleteYour last sentence sums it up perfectly. Del Rio & Orton are both fundamentally solid in the ring, but both guys bore the hell out of me.
ReplyDeleteWhy WOULD Punk/Jericho have a big fight feel? Instead of doing the obvious, which is having Jericho win the Rumble, which would have established him as a serious threat upon returning from his latest hiatus, all we get is Jericho whining about copycats. How is that supposed to fire anyone up to see him face Punk? I've always been a huge fan of CJ, but this is about as uninteresting as he's been. And Punk's character doesn't have the same edge or bite that he had last summer either.
ReplyDeletePeople were sick of The Rock even in his prime...
ReplyDeletePunk and Jericho played third fiddle to Taker/HHH/EndOfAnEra and Rock/Cena/OnceInALifetime. If Punk and Jericho had been positioned as the main attraction of WrestleMania, and the event was a critical and/or financial failure, THEN you can rightfully blame Punk/Jericho and say they're not draws. Until you do that, it's not fair (or accurate) to put the blame on them.
ReplyDeleteI'll also agree with his comment: "Bret Hart could have saved himself a ton of stress and aggravation if
ReplyDeletehe'd just agreed to lose a SCRIPTED match on his way out of the WWF,
regardless of the location."
I realize there was more to the story than just "I refuse to lose in this location". There were real life animosities at play. But I absolutely think that if Bret said "screw it. I'll just do what they want and take the high road" he would've saved himself years of aggravation and hostility.
Damn never knew Punk boned Tittie Brooks...but yeh he one of my faves and I buy the SXE thing but yeh his actual appearance screams "I'm tryna score meth" at the Waffle House after the show.
ReplyDeleteThese are fun...
ReplyDeleteI don't believe the fans will get sick of whoever is on top for a long time. Steve Austin got stale but they wouldn't turn on him. More times than not when fans turned on The Rock it was because they'd rather Steve Austin. The thing that people ignore about John Cena is that it's not like he's been on top since 2005 and people are just now starting to boo him because his act is tired - a large portion of fans have hated him since the start. There are all these theories floating around as to why people don't like him and what they could do to fix that - but whatever his character has been, whatever he's done since 2005, 1/2 the crowd has hated him regardless. It's not them, it's him.
Bret Hart's been analyzed to death. He should have dropped the title, and it's unrealistic to expect the WWF to alter their plans going forward to appease Bret Hart. Austin's beating Michaels at Wrestlemania. You need to put Michaels over as a heel and build him up so Austin can beat a legitimate, hot heel.
Partially agree on Randy Orton. I think the years of over-pushing tired people out on him and by the time he did get good and was worthy of his push they were sick of him. They were pushing him since 2003, I'd argue it wasn't until 2007 that he really came into his own. I don't know if he's the best all around performer, but I like him a lot. If they keep him out of the main event for a while, and ever do go through with a Cena heel turn, he could become an even bigger star as Cena's rival.
Jericho could have been an impact player. He was always hugely over, and seemed a sure thing to be the next big thing in 2000. They just didn't go all the way with him, for whatever reasons. The reason he's not an impact player is because of how they booked him - he was always the guy who could win or lose the IC title at anytime but needed massive amounts of cheating to win a major title and he typically lost it not long after. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses, sometimes he can beat Rey Mysterio, but Rey Mysterio can just as easily beat him. Compare that to Triple H, The Undertaker, John Cena, The Rock....how often do they lose on tv? Or lose in midcard matches? Or lose cleanly? They built those guys up to be mega stars and they very rarely lose clean. Of course it's a "big match" when they face one another because one way or another someone who doesn't lose often is going to.
I can kinda see what he means based upon WWE's current bookin of D Bry...and if ODB flashed her ODD'S at Bryan Eric Young might beat him in 20 seconds.
ReplyDeleteOh, you mean the Bret Hart that had creative control put into his contract for his last thirty days? You've positively stunned me with your frank opinons.
ReplyDeleteSince the can of worms is already open (and will probably never be closed again, given that we're still talking about it nearly 15 years later)--Bret had "reasonable" creative control, not just creative control, didn't he? Of course, who knows what "reasonable" mean...
ReplyDeleteAlso, was I -supposed- to read your comment with a Willy Wonka meme in mind? It made me grin but I don't know if you meant it that way or not.
Porn isn't entertainment? I find the acting to be quite enthralling.
ReplyDeletePersonally he screams gay porn star to me,but that works too. . .
ReplyDeleteHogan-Warrior says hi. . .
ReplyDeleteTell it Hogan/Rock says "why so quiet?"
ReplyDeleteThe Lance Storm effect?
ReplyDeleteWell, you know...clean, non-messy, entertainment.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to throw my 2 cents in re: the "trollish" nature of this post.
ReplyDeleteI think some of you guys are being WAY too sensitive about this. I found myself agreeing with a lot of the points he made, and disagreeing with a few as well. He said right at the beginning that he thought it would be 'cool' for us to discuss whichever ones we wanted. That to me says the guy understands these are *his* opinions, the whole FACT thing is just a gimmick not to be taken literally (as some of you apparently did). I didn't think any of his opinions were that out there, even the ones that I raised my eyebrows at when I first saw them (the divas and Randy Orton ones). And he at least gave an explaination for the Orton one (I didn't agree with it, but it was there). I wish he would have expanded on the divas idea, it was the only one that just sat out there with no support and came off as provocative just for the hell of it.
As for the complaint that it came off 'confrontational' or 'pretentious', I call bullshit on that. If somebody had written a column ripping the WWE, praising Punk, and dogging Hogan with the EXACT (uh oh, my 3rd capitalized word) same style I don't think anyone would have blinked an eye. I don't mind reading things that are a little confrontational, especially when the guy who wrote it is responding in the comments (I assume it was this realdeal guy that wrote it). Again, because of the tone of his opening ('cool to discuss') I didn't get the feeling he was talking down to us. This reminds me of that guy who wrote for this blog for a bit and called us "kids" or "children" in a friendly manner and was ripped to shreds in the comments, a lot of people saying they didn't even read what he wrote just cause he opened with that ("what, you think you're better than me?"). I'm no psychologist but I think it says more about your own insecurities than anything else.
And lastly, I think the term "troll" gets thrown around with impunity, to the point where it's applied to anyone with a contrarian opinion, even if they give a somewhat thoughtful explaination (which is all we should be expecting on a pro wrestling blog). It's like how "Hitler" has somehow become a legitimate insult that can apply to people that aren't, you know, HITLER (that's 4 capitalized words!). I don't consider realdeal a troll. I don't consider Dougie, who I'm not sure still posts here, a troll (although sometimes I wonder...). There are a LOT of guys on this board who can at times be confrontational, self aggrandizing, and downright rude when expressing an opinion against the mainstream thinking on this blog (I'm looking at YOU ChinWins...). Hell, I myself have posted a few tongue in cheek comments meant to provoke a reaction and discussion from the people I'm arguing against. I wouldn't call myself a troll, or say that I'm trolling, cause I'm looking to spark a REAL discussion. Anybody remember that live thread from last year when the same guy kept posting different variations of 'what?' ('wha', 'whaaaa', 'wut', 'que', etc). Now THAT was trolling. Let's keep things in perspective.
P.S. But seriously realdeal (if you *are* the guy who wrote this), let's cut it out with the Montreal shit. Keep thjat up and I'll call you a troll myself.
"YES network needs to can Lou Pinella. He contributes nothing and has a really annoying voice."
ReplyDeleteHe's seriously like the Art Donovan of YES announcers. I swear, on Saturday's game against Tampa, there were a good four or five innings where Kay was playing Gorilla Monsoon and literally ignoring everything Lou said; Cone was Randy Savage and was the only one who acknowledged him!
On the flip-side, Ken Singleton is the man.
"If wishes were fishes, the world would be an ocean!"
ReplyDeleteExcellent post. Agree completely.
ReplyDeleteTaguchi!
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I would have reacted with quite the eye roll if the poster had echoed my opinions. He's not saying anything particularly interesting, it's just a hodge podge of conventional wisdom styled statements designed to tell it to those know-it-all smarks. Had this been on the flip side, a "Smarks' message to the establishment~!" I would have had basically the same opinion.
ReplyDelete"Seriously, Randy Orton is an awesome performer if your baseline comparison is Ted Dibiase Jr."
ReplyDeleteThis may be the most correct thing ever said on this blog.
1. Probably not. But that doesn't mean that WWE should stop looking out for the next breakout star or undercutting potential stars for petty reasons.
ReplyDelete2. As more than a few people have pointed out, when that happened WWE had the sense to turn him heel and capitalize on the animosity. Now, they just stubbornly stick to the pre-determined course of action and then wonder why business is so stagnant.
3. Sadly, I have to agree. Punk had the potential to be a "impact player" last year, but WWE stifled that push and then put him in a holding pattern for months. Sure, he's over and all, but he's not the guy who's going to make the difference at the box office or garner mainstream attention. And Jericho is what he is: a career upper-midcarder who can be counted on for a decent match and occasionally gets to dabble in the main event. He's basically Ricky Steamboat, only not as good.
4. Again, I agree. The issue is whether WWE will try and capitalize on that attention, or ignore it to prove a point.
5. While I wouldn't say Vince did the RIGHT thing, I will say (in his mind) he did the NECESSARY thing. But at its core, Montreal is still about three millionaires having a proverbial slapfight over a fake belt in a worked sport, and it seems even more ridiculous all these years later.
6. Honestly, who has ever said this? Most people blame the Fingerpoke of Doom or David Arquette: WCW Champion, and those are just as wrong. What killed WCW was an insidious pattern of poor decision-making, overspending and uncontrolled backstage anarchy and sedition. AOL/TW may have wanted out of the wrestling business, but you can't tell me that a well-run, orderly and profitable WCW wouldn't have been snapped up by some other network in 2001.
7. But it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy: The Brocks and Rocks of the world come is and only Cena is portrayed as being at their equal, thus no one else is given the opportunity to move up the ladder and show that they CAN actually come up to that level, leading to WWE panicking about the lack of star power and bringing in more Brocks and Rocks.
8. Michael Cole isn't even Michael Cole anymore. He's Mr. McMahon's Mini-Me.
9. There's some controversy about WWE deliberately "zeroing-out" the chants Monday and Tuesday. Don't know if I buy that, but I do think that while the chants won't be as loud as we heard in Miami, the fact that there were signs at all tell me that there's at least a glimmer of something there that should be nurtured and explored. Whether WWE will be inclined to do so is another matter.
10. Considering just how bad most actual Diva matches are these days, you might be on to something.
11. To quote Brian from here on the blog: Seriously, Randy Orton is an awesome performer if your baseline comparison is Ted Dibiase Jr.
12. The problem is the process they use now to try and create said stars: 50/50 booking, stop/start pushes to "humble" the talent, goofy, unfunny comedy designed to "humanize" certain folks, etc. Would Hogan have gotten over in the 1980s if he lost every other match? Would Austin have taken off if he was shunted back down the midcard in the midst of his rise? Did they put a Golddust wig on Brock or have him backstage goofing around with Beaker from the Muppets? Or cut the knees out from under the Rock just as the fans were beginning to respond to him because of petty politics?
I think ADR is actually way more interesting than Orton. He does tons of really subtle shit to get himself over as a heel. The winking, kicking the opponent way after he wins while smiling, its an extension of his Egotistical Babyface gimmick he had in Mexico and I find it quite brilliant.
ReplyDeleteHOW DID I MISS THIS THREAD?!?!?!
ReplyDeleteHow did we both end up randomly going back and looking at threads from 7 months ago? wtf
ReplyDelete